HA!

[Tgo01]

I just had a post pulled for saying that maybe customers should start canceling their accounts until the higher ups start giving GMs the resources they need to get shit done (I did it without the cussing though) and the post was pulled in a couple of minutes.

I guess Bubba values the almighty dollar more than he does about the integrity of his staff.

[Tgo01]

Oh my bad, it's because I very obviously jokingly said I afk script hunt 24/7 and the idiot THROGG said "Gee isn't that against policy?" and I jokingly said back "It's only against policy if you're caught."

Okay. So the problem here is a lack of sense of a sense of humor. My bad.

I also got a TAC warning for that post; whatever that means.

[Gelston]

Oh my bad, it's because I very obviously jokingly said I afk script hunt 24/7 and the idiot THROGG said "Gee isn't that against policy?" and I jokingly said back "It's only against policy if you're caught."

Okay. So the problem here is a lack of sense of a sense of humor. My bad.

I also got a TAC warning for that post; whatever that means.

A tactical warning. If you get too many, they send in a Tactical Squad that abducts you and puts you in a small room with dim lights. When you try to sleep they play loud metal music.

[Tgo01]

A tactical warning. If you get too many, they send in a Tactical Squad that abducts you and puts you in a small room with dim lights. When you try to sleep they play loud metal music.

Do I still get to play GS in there?

[Taernath]

Oh my bad, it's because I very obviously jokingly said I afk script hunt 24/7 and the idiot THROGG said "Gee isn't that against policy?" and I jokingly said back "It's only against policy if you're caught."

I bet THROGG got an RPA for that.

[Tgo01]

I bet THROGG got an RPA for that.

With the way the game has been going lately, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

[Gelston]

Do I still get to play GS in there?

No. you can only play Modus Operandi.

[Tgo01]

No. you can only play Modus Operandi.

That's way beyond cruel.

[Androidpk]

That's way beyond cruel.

Keep it up and it will be Alliance of Heroes.

[Gelston]

Keep it up and it will be Alliance of Heroes.

More people are active in AoH than MO.

Cyberstrike 2 is the only step down.

[Silvean]

More people are active in AoH than MO.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130602110639/hercxena/images/b/b8/PunchLines_Bets.jpg

[Gelston]

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130602110639/hercxena/images/b/b8/PunchLines_Bets.jpg

ILLEGAL! THAT LICENSE RAN OUT! DELETE IMAGE NOW!

[Silvean]

ILLEGAL! THAT LICENSE RAN OUT! DELETE IMAGE NOW!

Never! Just don't give it to a GM for alteration.

[Tisket]

I just had a post pulled for saying that maybe customers should start canceling their accounts until the higher ups start giving GMs the resources they need to get shit done (I did it without the cussing though) and the post was pulled in a couple of minutes.

I guess Bubba values the almighty dollar more than he does about the integrity of his staff.

What resources do the GM's need? What needs to get done?

I need more information before I decide to join a rebellion.

[Hightower]

What resources do the GM's need? What needs to get done?

I need more information before I decide to join a rebellion.

He's tired of hearing that such and such idea won't or can't fly due to lack of resources. It's basically become the excuse for everything.

[Tisket]

What ideas? How often is that actually used as an excuse?

I sense hyperbole at work in this thread.

[Tgo01]

What resources do the GM's need? What needs to get done?

I need more information before I decide to join a rebellion.

Nothing in particular. It just seems like whenever players ask for something in game the excuse invariably comes back as "Lack of resources."

Wyrom went on a spiel about how a lot of GMs join up and have a lot of great ideas but they are saddled with so much work that their ideas rarely ever get implemented and that a lot of them quit due to being burned out and that a lot of stuff players want can't be done because of a lack of resources.

I've been hearing this excuse since I've started playing this game some 20+ years ago :p

I don't expect things to get done tomorrow but we are talking about problems players have been complaining about for years. It's crazy because even back in the day I remember having this exact same conversation with GMs at the time; people have been asking for things for years and they never got done due to lack of resources.

Honestly it's amazing how this game has survived as long as it has.

[Tgo01]

What ideas? How often is that actually used as an excuse?

I sense hyperbole at work in this thread.


This hasn't been anyone's exact reaction ever in the last 6 months. Do yourself a solid and take a look at our staff list I announced. Then look at those that work on the more technical side. And then skim the announcements. The majority of staff right now has a backlog of tasks that were presented under different management that we still are trying to figure out what to do with. For a long time, it was monks. But staff also have a lot of creative ideas they want to push out. But we're sort of stuck, because we need to work on certain things, and we generally can't let staff work on what they wanted to do ever since they got hired. Some of us push through it and try to squeeze things in when we can. Some buckle under the pressure and leave us. And usually whatever project they worked is now in some transitional phase that is even in a worse off state than it was before.

But when you want treasure updates, hunting options, new society skills, new artisan skills, revamps to pre-existing systems... This all sort of falls on the same small group of people. These are big projects, guys. It's not status quo. Things aren't slow because we necessarily make them slow. We have limited resources.

There is Wyrom's post.

[Tgo01]

There is Wyrom's post.

Also off the top of my head for things that haven't been finished in years, in some cases decades:

Wizard spells 935, 940, 950
Minor elemental spells 440, 450
Minor spiritual spell 150
Bard spell 1050

Lores affecting the minor elemental spell circle.

Savants.

Hurling update.

Doesn't thrown need a major overhaul as well?

[Gizmo]

There is Wyrom's post.

Sad thing is, yes they may have limited resources but they have so much revenue to expand on those resources, the company is just way too greedy to do so..This game would be 10x better if they spent money on staff a bit more, increased capacity etc

[Tgo01]

Sad thing is, yes they may have limited resources but they have so much revenue to expand on those resources, the company is just way too greedy to do so..This game would be 10x better if they spent money on staff a bit more, increased capacity etc

That's what I was getting at with my post to cancel our accounts until the higher ups decide to start giving GMs the resources they need.

I wonder how many people we can get together to close their accounts for one month? Say, the month of January? That might send a message to Bubba.

[Viekn]

That's what I was getting at with my post to cancel our accounts until the higher ups decide to start giving GMs the resources they need.

I wonder how many people we can get together to close their accounts for one month? Say, the month of January? That might send a message to Bubba.

Might as well ask me to stop smoking crack.

[Tgo01]

Might as well ask me to stop smoking crack.

Will you stop smoking crack for the month of January?

[Tgo01]

Thread: HA!

yes, please cancel your accounts immediately in protest


http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/312/563/05d.jpg

[Roblar]

I see what's going on here Mr. Penguin..

One way to ease hunting pressure.

[Tgo01]

I see what's going on here Mr. Penguin..

One way to ease hunting pressure.

Shush! You're ruining my plan!

[Hightower]

What ideas? How often is that actually used as an excuse?

I sense hyperbole at work in this thread.

Well, don't take it from me. Go post on the officials. Find a problem with the game and suggest a course of action. I can pretty much guarantee in the course of debating the merits of your idea you will be hit from both sides (player and GM) by people telling you it can't be done due to resources or that, while they agree with your suggestion it would require too much resources. For fuck's sake, Allereli just told Wyrom that she would rather he not be so active on the forums because he could be getting more work done if he wasn't always responding to complaints! I am not making this up!

~Taverkin

[Ysamine]

I saw lots of smaller easy fixes taken on in the past couple of weeks by Keios.

Fixing things like the treasure system is on par with things like updating COL. Those are long term projects not just a shift in a single algorithm.

[Allereli]

For fuck's sake, Allereli just told Wyrom that she would rather he not be so active on the forums because he could be getting more work done if he wasn't always responding to complaints! I am not making this up!

~Taverkin

just yours and TG's.

[Tgo01]

I saw lots of smaller easy fixes taken on in the past couple of weeks by Keios.

Fixing things like the treasure system is on par with things like updating COL. Those are long term projects not just a shift in a single algorithm.

Yes and the treasure system has been broken for years, probably bordering on a decade. It's not like people just realized yesterday that the treasure system is broken and we demand a fix by tomorrow at noon or we'll shoot a hostage.

[Tgo01]

just yours and TG's.

Allereli's attitude reminds me of grade school where the teacher would ask a question of the class and no one knows the answer then after a few seconds of awkward silence someone guesses but is wrong, and while Allereli doesn't know the right answer she knows that answer is wrong so she laughs at that student for trying but then sits quietly until the teacher give the right answer, she then sits there smugly while whispering loudly enough for her immediate neighbors to hear, "I knew it."

[Kerranger]

Allereli's attitude reminds me of grade school where the teacher would ask a question of the class and no one knows the answer then after a few seconds of awkward silence someone guesses but is wrong, and while Allereli doesn't know the right answer she knows that answer is wrong so she laughs at that student for trying but then sits quietly until the teacher give the right answer, she then sits there smugly while whispering loudly enough for her immediate neighbors to hear, "I knew it."

Then you hit that bitch with a giant spitball, get sent into the hallway, and all is right with the world.

[Jeril]

Yes and the treasure system has been broken for years, probably bordering on a decade. It's not like people just realized yesterday that the treasure system is broken and we demand a fix by tomorrow at noon or we'll shoot a hostage.

Hunting pressure was released only since I've been playing. I forget when exactly, I think around the time they released enhancives into it, so, something like 6 years ago.

[Allereli]

I just don't see the point in beating the same dead horse over and over, I know it's an issue, they know it's an issue. If you want to make your point, put it as the reason for suspending your accounts. Plus you just like to troll, it's obvious.

and as for Taverkin, he asks for systems to be made that already exist but he doesn't like one little detail about them, so he insists they be rebuilt around his personal style. It's ridiculous.

[Tgo01]

Hunting pressure was released only since I've been playing. I forget when exactly, I think around the time they released enhancives into it, so, something like 6 years ago.

Pretty sure it's longer than that. I think Krakii posted a link in the officials where a GM gave some info on hunting pressure and that was in 1999...I'll see if I can find that post.

[Tgo01]

Pretty sure it's longer than that. I think Krakii posted a link in the officials where a GM gave some info on hunting pressure and that was in 1999...I'll see if I can find that post.

Here's the Krakii article on it:

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Mechanics_%28saved_post%29

1999.


Plus you just like to troll, it's obvious.

K.

[Taernath]

That's what I was getting at with my post to cancel our accounts until the higher ups decide to start giving GMs the resources they need.

I wonder how many people we can get together to close their accounts for one month? Say, the month of January? That might send a message to Bubba.

How about if I promise not to reactivate for the month of January?

[Tgo01]

How about if I promise not to reactivate for the month of January?

You would do that for us? :D

[Taernath]

You would do that for us? :D

Of course. It's like a hunger strike, but one that I've already been doing it for years.

[Ysamine]

Premium homes have needed an update for more than a dozen years and it hasn't happened yet. I think it's because a fix requires a rewrite. It could be the same way with the treasure system. Probably worse since the treasure system if implemented as a true fix rather than a bandage to a flawed system would touch a lot of other systems.

[Tgo01]

Premium homes have needed an update for more than a dozen years

Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me. On a similar note player shops have been completely broken for...how many years now?

[Silvean]

At least you're finally starting to talk about the root problems. Two things:

1. The game is run by a hobbyist staff. They work 40 hours, come home to other responsibilities, and then do GM stuff if they have time. They are almost entirely unpaid. This plus a stringent quality control system is why RSN means years. I assume important GMs go silent for weeks at a time without repercussions while projects remain dormant.

2. GMs stopped posting goals and priority lists because things don't get done and players complain. Why aren't the goals achieved? See item 1.

You can complain about the obvious problems with the treasure system, unfinished spells, and other things as long as you want but they're just going to gesture toward item 1 here and tell you they are working on other "secret" projects. And I think they are being completely genuine and honest when they do so. That's it. That's the score.

I can imagine solutions to these root problems but they cost money and I suspect only 2 or 3 people could actually implement a solution.

[diethx]

A tactical warning. If you get too many, they send in a Tactical Squad that abducts you and puts you in a small room with dim lights. When you try to sleep they play loud metal music.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10659176_617541278371303_1130234212514815381_n.jpg ?oh=54d468d2f4a2f25f56109e11fc3cb340&oe=54FABC3F&__gda__=1425866638_c1a9867d0c29e5d81f23b3933b0f1f8 6


I wonder how many people we can get together to close their accounts for one month? Say, the month of January? That might send a message to Bubba.

Cause it's worked so well the hundred other times it's been suggested and attempted in the past decade...

[Donquix]

I saw lots of smaller easy fixes taken on in the past couple of weeks by Keios.

Fixing things like the treasure system is on par with things like updating COL. Those are long term projects not just a shift in a single algorithm.

I've posted this before but stop to think about it:

some of these have been glaring, major issues that have existed for 15 years, or longer. That have been repeatedly complained about by customers.

In that same time:
young men and women came of age, went to college, decided they wanted to become software developers, attended 4 years of college, interned for a year, decided fuck the man and started their own indie game studio with a couple other friends they made along the way, designed, tested, and released brand new games that are just as complex if not more so than the entirety of gemstone.

So fuck that excuse. Fuck it. It's bullshit.

[Tgo01]

Cause it's worked so well the hundred other times it's been suggested and attempted in the past decade...

Yeah but this time will be different.

[Tgo01]

Thread: HA!

FYI, minor spell circles won't be getting 50th level spells, only up to 40.


Well that's one way to solve the lack of development problem; just refuse to develop it at all :p

[subzero]

For fuck's sake, Allereli just told Wyrom that she would rather he not be so active on the forums because he could be getting more work done if he wasn't always responding to complaints! I am not making this up!

~Taverkin

And then the next complaint is, "No one tells us anything!".


Hunting pressure was released only since I've been playing. I forget when exactly, I think around the time they released enhancives into it, so, something like 6 years ago.

I was thinking even longer than that. Wasn't that part of the Growing Pains/move to GSIV?


I've posted this before but stop to think about it:

some of these have been glaring, major issues that have existed for 15 years, or longer. That have been repeatedly complained about by customers.

In that same time:
young men and women came of age, went to college, decided they wanted to become software developers, attended 4 years of college, interned for a year, decided fuck the man and started their own indie game studio with a couple other friends they made along the way, designed, tested, and released brand new games that are just as complex if not more so than the entirety of gemstone.

So fuck that excuse. Fuck it. It's bullshit.

Exactly. They could erase these problems by upgrading from slaves to paid laborers and having some real organization and structure. But they won't, so fuck it. Cancel now!

[Allereli]

And then the next complaint is, "No one tells us anything!".

Silvean has a trademark on that one :)

[waywardgs]

Pretty sure it's longer than that. I think Krakii posted a link in the officials where a GM gave some info on hunting pressure and that was in 1999...I'll see if I can find that post.

The treasure system was revamped after I came back 7 years ago.

What's broken now? I don't play currently, I'm just curious.

[Tgo01]

The treasure system was revamped after I came back 7 years ago.

What's broken now? I don't play currently, I'm just curious.

I honestly don't know what you and Jeril are referring to but the Krakii article I linked is talking about the introduction of the hunting pressure system and that was back in 1999.

It's broken because the way hunting pressure works is if one hunting area is being hunted constantly by 10+ people then the loot goes down and if one area has no one hunting in it all day/week/whatever then the loot goes up.

This probably worked fine back in 1999 but now in almost 2015 a good portion of the player base is capped or near capped and there are only like 3 capped hunting grounds so the loot in capped hunting areas almost always suck. On the other end of the spectrum there are easily 2-3 times as many hunting areas in the mid 50's range and a lot fewer people hunting those areas so that loot is usually better than capped hunting loot.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Silvean's point is valid - pay for GMs is virtually non-existent, most of the GMs do have full time jobs in addition to being a GM - I don't know how folks do it. I did it for 6 or 8 months, I forget how long it was, and I went from enjoying the game and wanted to make a difference, to canceling my account maybe 4 months after I quit. The code is so dated, the revolving door of GMs and half finished projects so overwhelming, I'm surprised anything gets done.

If you thought players had clicks, you ain't seen nothing til you become a GM. It's like something from a show on MTV. The training to be a GM was great though - Sirina and Alyias (I think I got that right) were fantastic at that. But bottom line, it has never been treated as a job, which is what it would take to be successful. But it can't be a job when you have no leverage over your employees to get them to meet their deadlines.

Seriously, think about it; GM x is responsible for lets say, the premium home fixes. They are 6 months behind schedule. What do you do? Give it to someone else, who'd have to spend an inordinate amount of time to learn the system and fix it (assuming it's even possible since I'm 100% sure nothing was documented on it)? Fire the GM? - for missing a deadline... you'd have to fire everyone. Do nothing and pray it gets done before the GM burns out and quits? My money says SIMu has more religion than the vatican has pedofiles.

If it wasn't a cash cow and run by people paid in 90% in game powers and 10% "profit" sharing of a pool of money (which doesn't get bigger if you have more staff... so why hire more staff?) I'm sure they'd have pulled the plug long ago.

The game is on the downward slope of it's life, and it's not coming back. The past cannot be recreated - ask anyone from NWN.

The best you can do is hope someone with a modicum of talent and the ability to code gets "hired", has the passion to make change, and the fortitude to finish something...

[waywardgs]

I honestly don't know what you and Jeril are referring to but the Krakii article I linked is talking about the introduction of the hunting pressure system and that was back in 1999.

It's broken because the way hunting pressure works is if one hunting area is being hunted constantly by 10+ people then the loot goes down and if one area has no one hunting in it all day/week/whatever then the loot goes up.

This probably worked fine back in 1999 but now in almost 2015 a good portion of the player base is capped or near capped and there are only like 3 capped hunting grounds so the loot in capped hunting areas almost always suck. On the other end of the spectrum there are easily 2-3 times as many hunting areas in the mid 50's range and a lot fewer people hunting those areas so that loot is usually better than capped hunting loot.

Gotcha, that makes sense. It's working as intended but there has been no congruent increase in capped areas to go with the rise of the capped population. Yeah, that's weak.

Jeril and I were referring to when the treasure system started dropping items and enhancives came out. At least I was anyway.

[JackWhisper]

Just imagine how much they would have gotten done if they'd used their time/money into helping Gemstone along, instead of trying to make Dragons of Elanthia.

Ha!

[Riltus]

Category: Game Design Discussions
Topic: Treasure System
Message #: 1472
Author: GS4-WARDEN
Date: 5/25/2008 3:08:22 PM
Subject: Creature Loot and Experience Changes

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Creature_loot_and_experience_changes_(saved_post)

Mark

[Allereli]

Just imagine how much they would have gotten done if they'd used their time/money into helping Gemstone along, instead of trying to make Dragons of Elanthia.

Ha!

I agree 100%

[Donquix]

I agree 100%

yuuuuup. That's the problem.

Resource constraints are a real problem. They're a crippling problem for gemstone because none of our money goes back into it.

[Tgo01]

Gotcha, that makes sense. It's working as intended but there has been no congruent increase in capped areas to go with the rise of the capped population. Yeah, that's weak.

Exactly. When was the last time a capped hunting area came out? To my knowledge it was the Scatter and while cool and all it's a post capped hunting area. So besides the Scatter when is the last time a capped hunting area came out?


Just imagine how much they would have gotten done if they'd used their time/money into helping Gemstone along, instead of trying to make Dragons of Elanthia.

Ha!

Solomon even commented on this a while back. He basically flat out admitted that GS pays for shit like Dragons of Elanthia and that we as customers have to understand that this is the way businesses work; they have to keep pumping money into new products if the company wants to survive and grow.

I mean sure, I get that shit. But what the fuck has Simu made money off of besides that Hero Engine thing they sold years ago, GS and DR? To my knowledge nothing. Maybe they can cut back the budget on bullshit, stupid ass mobile games like Tiny Heroes by 10% and put that money back into GS.

I even challenged Solomon to name something that goes back into GS and he rattled off a bunch of bullshit like hiring a web guy and hiring someone who handles like the backbone of GS and DR and the other text based games. Okay, sure, besides shit that is required to run the game; what have they put into GS to make it better, not just keep it running.

He couldn't/wouldn't answer that. But tried to make the case that they have to charge a lot of money for GS and keep pumping out paid events because they have an office in St. Louis they need to pay for. Oh and they have to pay for things like fire extinguishers and pay to have them inspected on a yearly basis.

It was like the opposite of that Fry "Shut up and take my money!" meme; more like "Shut up and give us your money!"

[Tgo01]

Category: Game Design Discussions
Topic: Treasure System
Message #: 1472
Author: GS4-WARDEN
Date: 5/25/2008 3:08:22 PM
Subject: Creature Loot and Experience Changes

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Creature_loot_and_experience_changes_(saved_post)

Mark

Ahhh. So they made things semi better while punishing people for underhunting :p

Must be what Jeril was referring to. The hunting pressure was years before that though.

[Hightower]

I just don't see the point in beating the same dead horse over and over, I know it's an issue, they know it's an issue. If you want to make your point, put it as the reason for suspending your accounts. Plus you just like to troll, it's obvious.

and as for Taverkin, he asks for systems to be made that already exist but he doesn't like one little detail about them, so he insists they be rebuilt around his personal style. It's ridiculous.


Are you referring to the suggestion for an OOC global new player chat channel with the simple change that it not require an amulet for activation? It has nothing to do with personal style and all to do with practicality. You can say that activating an amulet is not difficult and you'd be right, but in practice established players use LNet and new players are clueless because they're new. They aren't using their crystal amulets because they're too busy trying to figure out how to speak and perform basic functions. If instead we had an auto-tuned channel (with the ability to toggle it off, of course) it would automatically link those new players to established players. I know abuse is a concern, but why would anyone want to muck around on the newbie channel in game when they have access to LNet for all their internet trash-talking needs?

I'm not sure why you think that's such an unreasonable request or unsound idea. It makes perfect sense to me, but I suppose you must be right because everyone is using the new ESP system. Right? ::crickets chirping:: Right?

~Taverkin

[Tgo01]

Are you referring to the suggestion for an OOC global new player chat channel with the simple change that it not require an amulet for activation? It has nothing to do with personal style and all to do with practicality. You can say that activating an amulet is not difficult and you'd be right, but in practice established players use LNet and new players are clueless because they're new. They aren't using their crystal amulets because they're too busy trying to figure out how to speak and perform basic functions. If instead we had an auto-tuned channel (with the ability to toggle it off, of course) it would automatically link those new players to established players. I know abuse is a concern, but why would anyone want to muck around on the newbie channel in game when they have access to LNet for all their internet trash-talking needs?

I'm not sure why you think that's such an unreasonable request or unsound idea. It makes perfect sense to me, but I suppose you must be right because everyone is using the new ESP system. Right? ::crickets chirping:: Right?

~Taverkin


Allereli's attitude reminds me of grade school where the teacher would ask a question of the class and no one knows the answer then after a few seconds of awkward silence someone guesses but is wrong, and while Allereli doesn't know the right answer she knows that answer is wrong so she laughs at that student for trying but then sits quietly until the teacher give the right answer, she then sits there smugly while whispering loudly enough for her immediate neighbors to hear, "I knew it."

.

[Allereli]

Are you referring to the suggestion for an OOC global new player chat channel with the simple change that it not require an amulet for activation?

~Taverkin

no, i'm referring to you requesting all the Mentor tools without wanting to become a Mentor.

[Hightower]

no, i'm referring to you requesting all the Mentor tools without wanting to become a Mentor.

Well, first I don't know what the mentor tools are, so I apologize for my ignorance on that one. As I recall I asked for two things: The previously mentioned addition to the ESP channels and some way of knowing when a new player logs into the game for the first time. I didn't really think these were unreasonable requests. They certainly have these features in other games I've logged into and they seem like a good idea.

In any case, I don't understand why you're so upset that I don't care to be a mentor. I'm sorry. I want to do things on my terms. It's just how I am. I quit playing WoW specifically because I don't like feeling obligated in a game. I play GS the same way. I don't join organizations not because I'm not social, dislike interaction or anything like that. I simply refuse to be tied down by a game, even if in practice I spend a great deal of time here and devote myself to activities very similar to what the mentors do. I'm not trying to steal your thunder or anything and I didn't realize you have these tools. Is that supposed to be common knowledge or something?

~Taverkin

[ZeP]

It's almost like this is some cash cow from the 90's that nobody could forsee lasting this long.

[Tgo01]

It's almost like this is some cash cow from the 90's that nobody could forsee lasting this long.

Get outta here!

[Gelston]

no, i'm referring to you requesting all the Mentor tools without wanting to become a Mentor.

Alright. Shut the fuck up. A mentor isn't any more special than any other player. If you are a mentor an think you are, perhaps you shouldn't be a mentor. Mentor exist for one reason, to help out new players. None of the mentor "tools" are different from regular player tools.

[Gelston]

And that wasn't necessarily aimed at you, Allereli. Mentors are regular GS players.

[Candor]

I used to help new players quite a bit. I didn't have to be a Mentor, and neither does anyone else.

Not that I am against Mentors. Well...some GM did teleport me out of a private party once (someone left the barriers open and I wandered in past several "Mentors Only" signs). But I drank their ale and ate their food, so we're even :).

But being a Mentor, as honorable as that is, is not something to go on a power trip about...

[Gelston]

I used to help new players quite a bit. I didn't have to be a Mentor, and neither does anyone else.

Not that I am against Mentors. Well...some GM did teleport me out of a private party once (someone left the barriers open and I wandered in past several "Mentors Only" signs). But I drank their ale and ate their food, so we're even :).

But being a Mentor, as honorable as that is, is not something to go on a power trip about...

I was one. There is no power to trip about. I think everyone should do the same thing mentors do. It'd atleast make the game more friendly.

[Fallen]

Not much to add to this thread, but a major problem is the argument that they cannot, even if they had the resources available, hire a permanent coder. If they did it would make the other GMs upset that they were volunteering while someone else was being paid full time. This line of reasoning came out on the boards a few years back. As for all the goals that "require too much resources" take a look at all of the changes/additions/fixes/overhauls on every annual goals list until they stopped doing them. Subtract everything that has been accomplished, and all that remains fall into the "too much resources" category. That would be a very, very long list.

I've found that once you've hit the stage where you're acutely upset about the lack of development in the game, it is likely time for a break. Any crusades on the boards are meaningless, and can actually contribute to GM burnout. As has already been said, the system is fundamentally broken and will never be fixed. Any dramatic uptick in subscribers (or more likely money from paid events) in GS would simply mean more money being diverted into the production of their mobile gaming division, with a pittance being handed out amongst the remaining GMs. Even that is a pipe dream.

[Ceyrin]

Loving GS is like loving a significant other. You have to love them for who they are, not who you think they could be. The latter of those two is dysfunctional, and ultimately unhealthy for both parties.

[Atlanteax]

Silvean's point is valid - pay for GMs is virtually non-existent, most of the GMs do have full time jobs in addition to being a GM - I don't know how folks do it. I did it for 6 or 8 months, I forget how long it was, and I went from enjoying the game and wanted to make a difference, to canceling my account maybe 4 months after I quit. The code is so dated, the revolving door of GMs and half finished projects so overwhelming, I'm surprised anything gets done.

If you thought players had clicks, you ain't seen nothing til you become a GM. It's like something from a show on MTV. The training to be a GM was great though - Sirina and Alyias (I think I got that right) were fantastic at that. But bottom line, it has never been treated as a job, which is what it would take to be successful. But it can't be a job when you have no leverage over your employees to get them to meet their deadlines.

Seriously, think about it; GM x is responsible for lets say, the premium home fixes. They are 6 months behind schedule. What do you do? Give it to someone else, who'd have to spend an inordinate amount of time to learn the system and fix it (assuming it's even possible since I'm 100% sure nothing was documented on it)? Fire the GM? - for missing a deadline... you'd have to fire everyone. Do nothing and pray it gets done before the GM burns out and quits? My money says SIMu has more religion than the vatican has pedofiles.

If it wasn't a cash cow and run by people paid in 90% in game powers and 10% "profit" sharing of a pool of money (which doesn't get bigger if you have more staff... so why hire more staff?) I'm sure they'd have pulled the plug long ago.

The game is on the downward slope of it's life, and it's not coming back. The past cannot be recreated - ask anyone from NWN.

The best you can do is hope someone with a modicum of talent and the ability to code gets "hired", has the passion to make change, and the fortitude to finish something...

On par with my experience...

[Atlanteax]

Exactly. When was the last time a capped hunting area came out? To my knowledge it was the Scatter and while cool and all it's a post capped hunting area. So besides the Scatter when is the last time a capped hunting area came out?

Solomon even commented on this a while back. He basically flat out admitted that GS pays for shit like Dragons of Elanthia and that we as customers have to understand that this is the way businesses work; they have to keep pumping money into new products if the company wants to survive and grow.

I mean sure, I get that shit. But what the fuck has Simu made money off of besides that Hero Engine thing they sold years ago, GS and DR? To my knowledge nothing. Maybe they can cut back the budget on bullshit, stupid ass mobile games like Tiny Heroes by 10% and put that money back into GS.

I even challenged Solomon to name something that goes back into GS and he rattled off a bunch of bullshit like hiring a web guy and hiring someone who handles like the backbone of GS and DR and the other text based games. Okay, sure, besides shit that is required to run the game; what have they put into GS to make it better, not just keep it running.

He couldn't/wouldn't answer that. But tried to make the case that they have to charge a lot of money for GS and keep pumping out paid events because they have an office in St. Louis they need to pay for. Oh and they have to pay for things like fire extinguishers and pay to have them inspected on a yearly basis.

It was like the opposite of that Fry "Shut up and take my money!" meme; more like "Shut up and give us your money!"

Shows like "the Profit", "Shark Tank", "Bar Rescue", etc ... would all have a field day with SIMU's ineptitude to financial management and lack of appreciation (awareness / reinvestment / etc) in their cash cow(s).

[Atlanteax]

Loving GS is like loving a significant other. You have to love them for who they are, not who you think they could be. The latter of those two is dysfunctional, and ultimately unhealthy for both parties.

I reckon for a lot of former players, it is the transition of such love (from what GS is, to what GS could be) that leads to divorcing GS (canceled sub) but still thinking about the intensity of past love (nostalgia).

[Whirlin]

Gemstone is like that hot prude chick that keeps edging you on promising kinky stuff, but rarely delivers.

[crb]

Premium homes have needed an update for more than a dozen years and it hasn't happened yet. I think it's because a fix requires a rewrite. It could be the same way with the treasure system. Probably worse since the treasure system if implemented as a true fix rather than a bandage to a flawed system would touch a lot of other systems.

I'd call that a low priority system. How many of those homes get used on a daily basis?

[Allereli]

I used to help new players quite a bit. I didn't have to be a Mentor, and neither does anyone else.

well, the point is he complained about nothing existing to help new players when there was a whole system in place and all he has to do is fill out an application, no new coding needed, but he can't accept that, he has to go to the complaint folder to be told by the GMs the exact same thing. He's ignorant and arrogant, the worst combination.

[crb]

Shows like "the Profit", "Shark Tank", "Bar Rescue", etc ... would all have a field day with SIMU's ineptitude to financial management and lack of appreciation (awareness / reinvestment / etc) in their cash cow(s).

Marcus Limonis "Wait, 90% of your profit comes from these two games here, but you spend 90% of your resources on these new ventures?"

I sometimes really wish Simu would just put Gemstone up for sale.

[Silvean]

I sometimes really wish Simu would just put Gemstone up for sale.

I wouldn't buy it. Even though trying to persuade my wife on the purchase would be a fun experience.

[Sorcasaurus]

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Simutronics-Salaries-E765329.htm

At least one person has pretended to be a paid software developer. Current GMs know there are paid employees. I don't see why there'd be blow back from a new hire.

[Hightower]

well, the point is he complained about nothing existing to help new players when there was a whole system in place and all he has to do is fill out an application, no new coding needed, but he can't accept that, he has to go to the complaint folder to be told by the GMs the exact same thing. He's ignorant and arrogant, the worst combination.

Search your feelings, Allereli. You can't do this. I feel the conflict within you. Let go of your hate!

[Silvean]

I'm about to run out the door and can't dig up the post but the "paid coder" issue came up on the officials a few months ago. I believe it was explained that this would be a costly hire and would involve months of training in the intricacies of Gemstone's code. I can imagine answers to these points but I'm not going to bother with further commentary.

[Sorcasaurus]

I'm about to run out the door and can't dig up the post but the "paid coder" issue came up on the officials a few months ago. I believe it was explained that this would be a costly hire and would involve months of training in the intricacies of Gemstone's code. I can imagine answers to these points but I'm not going to bother with further commentary.

I'm not saying they didn't give reasons, I believe they did. I just think they're largely BS.

If it's going to take a full time hire months of training to get them up to speed on the code, they are likely inept. What chance did volunteer GMs have then? They seem quite capable with GS code, and they did it in their "spare" time.

[Fallen]

I'm not saying they didn't give reasons, I believe they did. I just think they're largely BS.

If it's going to take a full time hire months of training to get them up to speed on the code, they are likely inept. What chance did volunteer GMs have then? They seem quite capable with GS code, and they did it in their "spare" time.

This.

[Tgo01]

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Simutronics-Salaries-E765329.htm

At least one person has pretended to be a paid software developer. Current GMs know there are paid employees. I don't see why there'd be blow back from a new hire.

Solomon flat out admitted on the boards that profits from GS are used to pay for their team of coders and graphic artists to make games like Tiny Heroes and Dragons of Elanthia. If paying GMs practically nothing so they can work on a game whose profits are then used to pay an entire team of coders and graphic artists doesn't piss GMs off enough to quit then I don't see why hiring one or two full time GS coders would. Heck, maybe they could even hire some current GMs to be full time.

[Sorcasaurus]

Solomon flat out admitted on the boards that profits from GS are used to pay for their team of coders and graphic artists to make games like Tiny Heroes and Dragons of Elanthia. If paying GMs practically nothing so they can work on a game whose profits are then used to pay an entire team of coders and graphic artists doesn't piss GMs off enough to quit then I don't see why hiring one or two full time GS coders would. Heck, maybe they could even hire some current GMs to be full time.

But..But.. that would make too much sense.

[Tgo01]

I hear people often say that the language GS is written in (GSL?) is out of date and clunky but it can't possibly be that complicated that it would take a full time coder months to learn, unless they were talking about hiring someone straight out of high school with no coding experience at all. Also like I said in my previous post; perhaps they could hire from their pool of current GMs. I know most of them have jobs but hey, you never know. One or two of them might like getting paid to work on GS.

[Sorcasaurus]

I hear people often say that the language GS is written in (GSL?) is out of date and clunky but it can't possibly be that complicated that it would take a full time coder months to learn, unless they were talking about hiring someone straight out of high school with no coding experience at all. Also like I said in my previous post; perhaps they could hire from their pool of current GMs. I know most of them have jobs but hey, you never know. One or two of them might like getting paid to work on GS.

Hell, hire someone part time. Possibly a few of the more dedicated GMs

[Silvean]

I'm not saying they didn't give reasons, I believe they did. I just think they're largely BS.

I hear you. Those GMs posting on the boards are just spitballing anyway. The two or three people who can sign checks are the ones who determine whether or not they should hire a coder for a game that's generating revenue without one.

I'd run a Gemstone Kickstarter with a reasonable target and development-related stretch goals if I ruled the world. The poorly conceived Dragons of Elanthia Kickstarter may have soured them on the idea, however.

[Tgo01]

Hell, hire someone part time. Possibly a few of the more dedicated GMs

That could work too. Doesn't have to be full time coders; hire 4 or 5 part time.

These are all pipe dreams of course though :(

Simu seems perfectly content with just watching their business crash and burn. As Solomon put it they are trying to create the next Candy Crush or Minecraft so they can make a name for themselves. Those are lofty goals and all but I don't think even Candy Crush or Minecraft were setting out to be the next Candy Crush or Minecraft.

[Sorcasaurus]

whether or not they should hire a coder for a game that's generating revenue without one.

I have a feeling this is exactly why this will never happen.

[Fallen]

Minecraft no, Candy Crush, yes.

[Sorcasaurus]

That could work too. Doesn't have to be full time coders; hire 4 or 5 part time.

These are all pipe dreams of course though :(

Simu seems perfectly content with just watching their business crash and burn. As Solomon put it they are trying to create the next Candy Crush or Minecraft so they can make a name for themselves. Those are lofty goals and all but I don't think even Candy Crush or Minecraft were setting out to be the next Candy Crush or Minecraft.

Do they have a concept already or are they all sitting in a room going "What can we get rich quick with"? Those games are not very dev heavy (in terms of coding).

It's also possible they have an even smaller staff than I think.

[JackWhisper]

When something breaks in a business, you don't fix it for profit. You fix it because it's broken, because you will LOSE customers because it's broken. They may deal with it for a while, but if they are forced to, they get tired of it and eventually leave.

Fixing it once they're gone doesn't make them come back.

Fixing it BEFORE they leave does.

Sad hard truth.

[Tgo01]

Minecraft no, Candy Crush, yes.

True enough I suppose.


Do they have a concept already or are they all sitting in a room going "What can we get rich quick with"? Those games are not very dev heavy (in terms of coding).

Going by their games of Tiny Heroes, that one Facebook game and Dragons of Elanthia, I'm going to assume they have no concept in mind and are just coming up with random shit and hoping it works.

You know, I just realized that all of their games are related to GS/DR; Tiny Heroes featured classes from those two games I believe, and so did the Facebook game, right? And Dragons of Elanthia, well it uses the name of the world the games take place in.

Since Simu is used to milking their current customers dry in terms of premium/platinum, paid events, paid quests, the Simucoin store...are they also hoping their biggest customers will be those who already play GS/DR? Like "Hey, let's make the next Candy Crush and the people already funding the game in the first place via GS/DR will be gobbling up micro transactions faster than we can process them!"


When something breaks in a business, you don't fix it for profit. You fix it because it's broken, because you will LOSE customers because it's broken. They may deal with it for a while, but if they are forced to, they get tired of it and eventually leave.

Fixing it once they're gone doesn't make them come back.

Fixing it BEFORE they leave does.

Sad hard truth.

It's like they don't understand. Then again I'm assuming the owner got extremely lucky with GS/DR from being popular on AOL and being paid per hour then he got extremely lucky with Hero Engine so shit, I guess this guy must think business is all about luck and nothing else and is hoping his luck will pay off again one day.

[diethx]

They're a crippling problem for gemstone because none of our money goes back into it.

And yet, people. keep. paying.

[Donquix]

And yet, people. keep. paying.

Dramatically more would be paying with the smallest of reinvestment.

They could easily have maintained double the population, with next to no effort.

But hey, maybe you hate making money too. To each their own.

[Whirlin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHMzVlmVFBI

I feel like any esurance commercial could be talking about simu

[Back]

What I like about the PC is that we can say whats on our minds in an anonymous fashion. I do it all the time. I don't take anything anyone says here very seriously either because I know thats what this place is sometimes for.

Having said that...

Learn to play games. Games are games. Take some time, make an effort, try a little harder, use your brain, nothing is ever handed to you on a plate unless you pay or play for it.

[crb]

Thread: HA!
sign your reps you fucking twat ^_^

For the record. I don't really use the rep system, so whomever you think repped you or whatever, it wasn't me. I hope you believe me, because I've worked hard to cultivate a reputation in which people don't doubt my willingness to say mean things directly to someone's face. Doing it anonymously is just, meh.

[Latrinsorm]

Allereli's attitude reminds me of grade school where the teacher would ask a question of the class and no one knows the answer then after a few seconds of awkward silence someone guesses but is wrong, and while Allereli doesn't know the right answer she knows that answer is wrong so she laughs at that student for trying but then sits quietly until the teacher give the right answer, she then sits there smugly while whispering loudly enough for her immediate neighbors to hear, "I knew it."You were in classes where no one knew the right answers? That sounds so weird to me. :D

[Methais]

That's what I was getting at with my post to cancel our accounts until the higher ups decide to start giving GMs the resources they need.

I wonder how many people we can get together to close their accounts for one month? Say, the month of January? That might send a message to Bubba.

I'm locked in pretty much forever because of my house. Unless I forget to pay rent again or something.

But I have a 2nd account!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVcbY3Tf_TE

[Tgo01]

You were in classes where no one knew the right answers? That sounds so weird to me. :D

Hey, I went to school in California, what ya expect?


But I have a 2nd account!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVcbY3Tf_TE

That's the spirit!

Also that video always strikes me as weird every time I see it. It's like...when they're showing the parents it looks like they are in a house yet when they show Corky it looks like he's in some sort of factory or warehouse. Are they not in the same room or what?

[Atlanteax]

What I like about the PC is that we can say whats on our minds in an anonymous fashion. I do it all the time. I don't take anything anyone says here very seriously either because I know thats what this place is sometimes for.

Having said that...

Learn to play games. Games are games. Take some time, make an effort, try a little harder, use your brain, nothing is ever handed to you on a plate unless you pay or play for it.

WTF are you trying to say? "Learn to play GS, try a little harder" ??

This is what get you Clown'd.

[diethx]

Dramatically more would be paying with the smallest of reinvestment.

They could easily have maintained double the population, with next to no effort.

But hey, maybe you hate making money too. To each their own.

So long as people keep forking over their dollars, a whole fuckload of dollars too, in the grand scheme of online gaming, not a single thing will ever change. Simu will keep on as they have been for 15 years, and people will keep on complaining about it. It's sad.

[Sorcasaurus]

So long as people keep forking over their dollars, a whole fuckload of dollars too, in the grand scheme of online gaming, not a single thing will ever change. Simu will keep on as they have been for 15 years, and people will keep on complaining about it. It's sad.

Sometimes I just like to vent:

http://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/MjAxMi1iODc2NDlhODE5NTI3YzE2.png

[diethx]

Sometimes I just like to vent:

Haha. Well this is certainly the place to do it.

[Methais]

Shows like "the Profit", "Shark Tank", "Bar Rescue", etc ... would all have a field day with SIMU's ineptitude to financial management and lack of appreciation (awareness / reinvestment / etc) in their cash cow(s).

Or they'd be like "What's your secret on making everyone work for you for free and getting away with it for decades?"

Call the show's producers and sign them up.

[Methais]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10659176_617541278371303_1130234212514815381_n.jpg ?oh=54d468d2f4a2f25f56109e11fc3cb340&oe=54FABC3F&__gda__=1425866638_c1a9867d0c29e5d81f23b3933b0f1f8 6



Cause it's worked so well the hundred other times it's been suggested and attempted in the past decade...

Why the fuck can't I remember who that goth metal guy is?


I've posted this before but stop to think about it:

some of these have been glaring, major issues that have existed for 15 years, or longer. That have been repeatedly complained about by customers.

In that same time:
young men and women came of age, went to college, decided they wanted to become software developers, attended 4 years of college, interned for a year, decided fuck the man and started their own indie game studio with a couple other friends they made along the way, designed, tested, and released brand new games that are just as complex if not more so than the entirety of gemstone.

So fuck that excuse. Fuck it. It's bullshit.

http://www.superhealthykids.com/uploads/files/2576/large/imagesCookie-Cutter-French-FriesACE8Post-of-the-Week.jpg


well, the point is he complained about nothing existing to help new players when there was a whole system in place and all he has to do is fill out an application, no new coding needed, but he can't accept that, he has to go to the complaint folder to be told by the GMs the exact same thing. He's ignorant and arrogant, the worst combination.

For what it's worth, I think it's incredibly stupid that you have to sign up for and then be accepted into the "help new players club" when it would be much more efficient to just give anyone the same tools.

I remember signing up for it years ago and not hearing shit back from anyone. So fuck them, FUCK THEM RIGHT IN THE EAR!!!

It's not like you just fill out a form and then boom you're a mentor.

[Methais]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10659176_617541278371303_1130234212514815381_n.jpg ?oh=54d468d2f4a2f25f56109e11fc3cb340&oe=54FABC3F&__gda__=1425866638_c1a9867d0c29e5d81f23b3933b0f1f8 6



Cause it's worked so well the hundred other times it's been suggested and attempted in the past decade...


I've posted this before but stop to think about it:

some of these have been glaring, major issues that have existed for 15 years, or longer. That have been repeatedly complained about by customers.

In that same time:
young men and women came of age, went to college, decided they wanted to become software developers, attended 4 years of college, interned for a year, decided fuck the man and started their own indie game studio with a couple other friends they made along the way, designed, tested, and released brand new games that are just as complex if not more so than the entirety of gemstone.

So fuck that excuse. Fuck it. It's bullshit.


Hey, I went to school in California, what ya expect?



That's the spirit!

Also that video always strikes me as weird every time I see it. It's like...when they're showing the parents it looks like they are in a house yet when they show Corky it looks like he's in some sort of factory or warehouse. Are they not in the same room or what?

It's a show about a retard, don't look too deeply into it.

ON TOPIC:

Simu is stupid as fuck for not even trying to integrate GS into Facebook.

Because charging $15 a month for a few thousand people is a much better financial plan than going F2P (even if it's just to level 20 or something) for a billion people or whatever FB is at now.

[diethx]

Goth metal dude is Gary Oldman in/as Bram Stoker's Dracula.

[Androidpk]

So GMs are saddled with work? What are they working on? GS related stuff or other things?

[Tgo01]

So GMs are saddled with work? What are they working on? GS related stuff or other things?

My guess is 90% of the work is for pay events and quests and simu coin shit.

[Methais]

My guess is 90% of the work is for pay events and quests and simu coin shit.

I wonder what it's like for them with no lube.

[Tgo01]

I wonder what it's like for them with no lube.

Not pleasant I imagine.

"Hey, we need more money to hire more coders, think you can get the SimuCoin store finished so we can milk your efforts dry even more? K thanks."

[Back]

Just leave already if you aren't happy. Some may find that comment harsh but it is only in good faith that I say it. Honestly... if you are so dissatisfied cancel your sub and find a new game that does everything you want it to do.

It is one thing to suggest improvements and entirely another thing to whine constantly.

[Tgo01]

Just leave already if you aren't happy. Some may find that comment harsh but it is only in good faith that I say it. Honestly... if you are so dissatisfied cancel your sub and find a new game that does everything you want it to do.

It is one thing to suggest improvements and entirely another thing to whine constantly.

But I don't wwwaaannnnnnaaa!

[Back]

http://www.topmudsites.com/

[Candor]

Just leave already if you aren't happy. Some may find that comment harsh but it is only in good faith that I say it. Honestly... if you are so dissatisfied cancel your sub and find a new game that does everything you want it to do.

It is one thing to suggest improvements and entirely another thing to whine constantly.

I really hate it when Back says things I agree with...

[Back]

I really hate it when Back says things I agree with...

Well, look at it this way.

We agree on something!

[Back]

If you are not happy... do something to change that so you are happy!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6Sxv-sUYtM

[subzero]

to whine constantly.

I thought that was basically a requirement to play Prime?

[Back]

I thought that was basically a requirement to play Prime?

What axe do you have to grind?

[Atlanteax]

I'm puzzled with how Back seems to think that GS is 'perfectly fine' as is.

[Methais]

I'm puzzled with how Back seems to think that GS is 'perfectly fine' as is.

It's Back. What do you expect?

[subzero]

What axe do you have to grind?

Just pointing out that there are a lot of people who like to whine about things they don't like. Some might be legit issues, others are absolutely ridiculous.

[Silvean]

Just pointing out that there are a lot of people who like to whine about things they don't like. Some might be legit issues, others are absolutely ridiculous.

A lot of the posts on the officials make me wonder if the author is a bit off in the head. I like Gemstone and, in general, I like you all. But there are some fucking weirdos behind some of this text.

[Hightower]

A lot of people also act like you're murdering babies if you suggest changing just about anything about GSIV.

[Allereli]

A lot of people also act like you're murdering babies if you suggest changing just about anything about GSIV.

you don't suggest changing the game, you suggest building it around your own personal egotistical needs.

[Tgo01]

you don't suggest changing the game, you suggest building it around your own personal egotistical needs.

Tomato, tamata.

[Candor]

I'm puzzled with how Back seems to think that GS is 'perfectly fine' as is.

I'm going to hazard a guess that most players are somewhere in the middle. We don't think GS is "perfectly fine" as is, and on the other hand don't accept some of the complaints that get espoused on this board. A few players fail to comprehend the concept that other players may disagree with their suggestions and yet not be complete morons.

[Atlanteax]

I'm going to hazard a guess that most players are somewhere in the middle. We don't think GS is "perfectly fine" as is, and on the other hand don't accept some of the complaints that get espoused on this board. A few players fail to comprehend the concept that other players may disagree with their suggestions and yet not be complete morons.

Exactly, and most players also do not take the approach of "do not offer suggestions, just go away if you are unhappy with how the game is".

[Wrathbringer]

Exactly, and most players also do not take the approach of "do not offer suggestions, just go away if you are unhappy with how the game is".

I got neg a rep telling me exactly that this morning, so you must be wrong.

[caelric]

Most people on the internet fail to comprehend the concept that other people may disagree with their suggestions and yet not be complete morons.

There, fixed that for you.

[Hightower]

you don't suggest changing the game, you suggest building it around your own personal egotistical needs.

You've created a fantasy to rail against, Allereli. I made an honest attempt at explaining things to you. You chose not to respond to that and continue with your grudge.

You're such a rotten bitch. How are you feeling today, by the way?

[Allereli]

You've created a fantasy to rail against, Allereli. I made an honest attempt at explaining things to you. You chose not to respond to that and continue with your grudge.

You're such a rotten bitch. How are you feeling today, by the way?

I feel fantastic, thank you.

[Tgo01]

I find it hilarious that someone who threw a temper tantrum on the official forums because a script waved at his character is now on the officials telling people to stop whining about all of the problems with GS.

Time to get your priorities straight there, Taverkin ;)

[Wrathbringer]

I find it creepy that he pulled something I posted from here to respond to on the officials.

Edit: As such, Hey, Wyrom! Would my avatar be okay to use on the officials?

[Tgo01]

I find it creepy that he pulled something I posted from here to respond to on the officials.

Wyrom is the person on the PC who posted that thread over here :O

[Lulfas]

Wyrom is the person on the PC who posted that thread over here :O

Nope.

[Tgo01]

Nope.

Don't lie. We're onto you, Wyrom.

[SpiffyJr]

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Simutronics-Salaries-E765329.htm

At least one person has pretended to be a paid software developer. Current GMs know there are paid employees. I don't see why there'd be blow back from a new hire.

45K for a developer? No wonder they cant find decent staff.

[Warriorbird]

Ha! I have something of value to contribute.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww9VlmXKYgs

[Atlanteax]

WB still making fun of blacks it seems.

[Methais]

Not worth starting a new thread for, but I think this or something similar would be a good idea for expanding capped stuff, or at least doing something with it to make things interesting. The underlying point is to convert the Broken Lands into a capped area. This is a crosspost from the officials in response to Finros's response about me suggesting converting Broken Lands into a capped area....


There are two reasons to convert an existing hunting ground: to save work, or for story/setting reasons. This particular post doesn't make it clear which is intended, but I'm going to assume the former based on previous posts that you've made.

Storyline reasons for this area would fit too, and I'm sure the current staff is creative enough to where that would be easy to do convincingly..


Conversion of existing hunting grounds doesn't actually save as much work as one might think. Modern creature design isn't simply a matter of fiddling with the numbers for pre-existing creatures, or we'd just be cloning kobolds for everything. Additionally, especially at higher levels, the hunting ground itself needs to be incorporated into the design so as to pose a proper challenge. Conversion of the Broken Lands to a capped hunting area would probably leave room descriptions and critter themes intact, but most everything else behind the scenes would have to change. Hence, not a great reduction in required workload.

Maybe, but when you think about what an awesome area it is combined with the fact of how underused the area is now, especially compared to how active it was pre-EN, the area is basically being wasted, aside from a few myklian skinners with a pocket empath maybe.

So what's better? Leaving one of the most awesome areas in the game deserted, or putting in the work to it to where it will always be active?


That isn't to say that I'm opposed to the idea of converting a hunting ground, but I'd only want to do it for story/setting reasons.

Just the ki-lin factor alone could be used for some crazy stuff. With as rare as they are, you could essentially convert them into a raid boss equivalent critter with a ridiculous amount of HP, make them corporeal but not death crittable, similar to troll kings, etc. Make them impossible to solo, even by a MA crew, unless they have like 47238904730 accounts. Thrown in some mechanic to offset Rapid Fire, be it by having spells inducing a 1 second hard RT or whatever, since any caster with Rapid Fire can do insane amounts of damage for little mana per cast. This wouldn't be an issue for a solo, or even small group of pures with rapid fire anyway, since the ki-lin would have such high HP and HP regen that by the time those rapid fire pures ran out of mana, the ki-lin would have recovered more HP than damage done to it by the next pulse. But in a huge group, rapid fire could still be a problem, so just throw something in there to offset it to keep the design a little easier if nothing else.

Without a really big group of people, this thing would literally be impossible to kill, and that's before factoring in damage lost from people getting killed in the fight.

Any capped character could just be running around the area on a normal everyday hunt, and suddenly they stumble across a ki-lin. They either die and then the locates from other people reveal a ki-lin spawn and everyone starts showing up, or the person that finds it starts broadcasting on LNet/amunet/Symbol of Need that a ki-lin has spawned, and every capped character from Solhaven to the Rift comes running in, people from Teras and EN take the next chronomage (or use their shiny SimuCoin instant chronomage item that they just ran to the SimuCoin store and bought, depending on when the next chronomage runs, yay $$$) over, people burn their house pin teleport, premium teleports, etc. to get there. It doesn't happen much, but when it does, anyone that's on at the time wants a piece of it. Make the rewards worth scrambling to get there from anywhere.

A big epic battle takes place against the ki-lin (which could also summon a ton of Sheruvian whatever to protect it that also have 4732408923740780932470 HP), and everyone gets a piece of the reward, either in the form of some standing bounty separate from normal bounties that grants a really nice chunk of exp or whatever. That way even if you don't get any loot or a skin, it's still worth coming down for and everyone gets something for it. And it's a super rare spawn, so it's not like the exp reward would be anything unbalancing or overpowered.

Give this thing so much HP that even with a nice sized group fighting it, casters will still face some mana problems, at least to the point to where they'll have to either drop down to casting their cheaper spells for a few pulses, or establish some sort of spell rotation, etc. Wizards won't be able to stand there and spam Immolate the whole time or sorcerers with DC, etc. Casters, which I'll use wizards as the example since that's what I know, would have to make a choice between going all out with their spells, playing support for melee/ranged classes via Haste, or ideally a combination of both. You could either burn up all your mana and then be useless for a little bit, or rotate some casts of haste in between your Immolates, resulting in more overall damage for the group. And whatever the other classes do that would be similar. Make the fight really last that long. Mstrikers will have to drop down to using regular attacks from stamina issues, empaths will have to do some healing and not be able to just spam Bone Shatter the whole time, clerics will probably have to do some raising, etc. There won't necessarily be some mechanic in place that makes it a requirement to have every profession present for the fight, but it would definitely make the fight go more smoothly.


The Broken Lands are probably a good candidate for story/setting reasons, but so are a number of other places. I'm actually somewhat disinclined to redo older hunting grounds because I'm nostalgic that way, and it'd be removing an old hunting area for very little work reduction in opening a new one.

There are unlimited story/setting reasons that could be used to justify converting it. I get your nostalgia viewpoint, but at the same time, what good is the area doing for the game right now? It's one of the most dead areas in the game I would imagine. I don't have any actual data to support this of course, but based on the requirements to access it combined with the ease of access of many other areas of similar level, I think it's a safe bet to say that the Broken Lands as a whole is a ghost town, and GS is desperately in need of a new capped hunting area.

The ki-lin thing is just one example of what could make the area a big attraction for any capped character no matter where they are in the game. Greater Vruul would be similar, since they're pretty rare too, and you could create any type of situation like that you wanted. You could technically do this with any area of course, but the general theme of the Broken Lands along with the decades long established notoriety of ki-lin would be a fit like no other.

And worst case scenario, if the nostalgia bug is really that big of a factor, expand on the area instead of converting it. A greater ki-lin would be just as awesome, as would an area filled with Sheruvian Elders and those other mythical Sheru critters that supposedly existed, etc.

And super duper worst case scenario, redesign ki-lin around something like this even if the rest of the Broken Lands stays exactly as it is now. Give whoever spawns the ki-lin an automatic reward after it's killed as an incentive for people to hunt the area, since they'd probably get slaughtered in the actual fight (or you could just scale the ki-lin's attacks to the level of the person they're attacking, so that anyone who can get to the area could be involved in the fight without being useless, though that wouldn't be quite as awe inspiring as drawing in nearly every capped character that's logged in at any given time), etc.

Once it spawns, it doesn't despawn either.

Fucking booze. Fuck.

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Discussions%20with%20Simutronics/The%20Bad,%20and%20the%20Ugly%20(general%20complai nts)/view/11427

[Warriorbird]

WB still making fun of blacks it seems.

When precisely did the psychosis kick in for you?


Not worth starting a new thread for, but I think this or something similar would be a good idea for expanding capped stuff, or at least doing something with it to make things interesting. The underlying point is to convert the Broken Lands into a capped area. This is a crosspost from the officials in response to Finros's response about me suggesting converting Broken Lands into a capped area....

I think this is a staggeringly good idea. You know and I know that makes it unlikely to be used.

[Methais]

I think this is a staggeringly good idea. You know and I know that makes it unlikely to be used.

Probably so, which is unfortunate.

But at the same time, Wyrom tends to make great things happen, and I don't see how it something like this could be attributed to a lack of resources, since most of it would just come down to doing number crunching as far as figuring out the ki-lin's HP/HP regen and AS/CS/whatever is concerned, so who knows.

I know I'd keep my house pin on cooldown at all times just in case someone spawned a ki-lin. And if I had to I'd spend a few bucks in the SimuCoin store to get instant chronomage travel as long as they made the rewards worth it. So it's a win-win for everyone.

With as rare as ki-lins are as it is (I've seen maybe 2-3 since '97), even just giving an automatic 4x RPA (since you can't go wrong with exp rewards in any situation) to everyone involved in the battle wouldn't be even close to unbalancing, yet it would draw everybody in without exception.

[Warriorbird]

Probably so, which is unfortunate.

But at the same time, Wyrom tends to make great things happen, and I don't see how it something like this could be attributed to a lack of resources, since most of it would just come down to doing number crunching as far as figuring out the ki-lin's HP/HP regen and AS/CS/whatever is concerned, so who knows.

I know I'd keep my house pin on cooldown at all times just in case someone spawned a ki-lin. And if I had to I'd spend a few bucks in the SimuCoin store to get instant chronomage travel as long as they made the rewards worth it. So it's a win-win for everyone.

With as rare as ki-lins are as it is (I've seen maybe 2-3 since '97), even just giving an automatic 4x RPA (since you can't go wrong with exp rewards in any situation) to everyone involved in the battle wouldn't be even close to unbalancing, yet it would draw everybody in without exception.

I think you're right on the money with this. I think something like it could, I dunno, inspire community feeling, patriotism, what have you, even in bitter old GS players.

And yeah, Wyrom's a good dude. Most of my complaints with GS don't have to do with actual GMs.

[Methais]

I think you're right on the money with this. I think something like it could, I dunno, inspire community feeling, patriotism, what have you, even in bitter old GS players.

And yeah, Wyrom's a good dude. Most of my complaints with GS don't have to do with actual GMs.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/57221975.jpg

[Warriorbird]

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/57221975.jpg

Ha ha ha ha. That's great.

[Jarvan]

Why the fuck can't I remember who that goth metal guy is?

Dracula, from Bram Stoker's I believe.

[Methais]

Oh yeah.

[Wrathbringer]

Ha! I have something of value to contribute.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww9VlmXKYgs

I watched this with the sound down for obvious reasons. All I saw were dancing negros. Not of value, or worth contributing.

[Methais]

12-17-2014 06:38 AM
Thread: HA!
Again, you've shown you really have no idea what kind of work would go in to something like this. But, keep hope alive, I guess.

Right. Since work would be involved, it's clearly not worth the bother.

[Latrinsorm]

I appreciate your effort, Methais. Period. I think you should lean more towards this creativity. Just a few notes:
Make the rewards worth scrambling to get there from anywhere.If the rewards are that good, why be anywhere else in the first place? And now every other hunting area is deserted.
A big epic battle takes place against the ki-lin (which could also summon a ton of Sheruvian whatever to protect it that also have 4732408923740780932470 HP), and everyone gets a piece of the reward, either in the form of some standing bounty separate from normal bounties that grants a really nice chunk of exp or whatever.GS is simply not compatible with massive battles. As you note, the reward system itself would require fundamental changes, but also the battle system itself. How the heck are you going to see what's going on with even a ten on ten fight? Imagine raid healing in WoW or whichever MMO without a party HUD. GS just doesn't scale.

But you could address your fundamental concern (abandoned hunting areas) with one simple change: dynamic leveling. If you're in the area with hooded figures, your level is no higher than 35. (Or 34, or 36, or whatever arbitrary relationship to the highest creature level you want to establish.) You can be level 100 in OTF, but you go there and you are automatically de-leveled, down-statted, etc. If you're in the area with harbingers, your level is no higher than 63. Voila! A hunting area where level 100 people can gain experience! That is to say: a capped hunting area. And the beauty is that once you have the dynamic leveling system in place, it works for every hunting area that exists and every hunting area you will ever create.

"If you like your hunting area, you can keep it!" ©

[Methais]

If the rewards are that good, why be anywhere else in the first place?

Do you know how rare a ki-lin spawn is?

[Androidpk]

Do you know how rare a ki-lin spawn is?

Rarer than a black president.

[Soulance]

GS is simply not compatible with massive battles.
And you thought TGOs scripting had bad/disruptive screen scroll. Taking on a "boss" would probably be rough on the old Commodore 64 there at Simu.

[Donquix]

it certainly wouldn't be perfect but, it could still be a fun thing to do, even if ultimately it just ends up with a shit ton of screen scroll. That's what we get in invasions already so why not!

gemstone does already have the ability to catch attacks and do non-standard things with them. i.e. attacking a gm gets a fuck you no message. something similar could be done along those lines to force suppression of the attack message, potentially. just spitballing on that part. and return something like, just the crit message, in a single line.

if the critter was designed in such a way that they had a gigantic health pool, and some amped up version of troll regen to prevent one person from being able to kill it (i.e. heals for like 1000 health a tick or something) it could be done.

a creative solution for the rapid fire issue would be an "aggro" mechanic. every hit gets you higher on the aggro list, go too high and KI LIN NO LIKE YOU, KI LIN SMASH.

so sounds like a bunch of work but, i dunno. i kind of like it. i'm not sure i'd prioritize it over other things but it could certainly be fun. and be a cool change of pace thing for people to do. Together, it is supposed to be a social game after all. Tie it into the title system as well. "Tgo, the ki lin conqueor"

the code wouldn't exist in a vacuum, it could definitely be used in storylines/quests in the future so it's not it would just be used for this one random thing.

[Geijon Khyree]

You know. The end of EG 2014 had a boss fight against a Sheruvian Harbringer. I'd say they have the concept and the mechanics to build atleast some portion of "boss" or "rare" monsters.

[Fallen]

There have been a few boss type creatures. The Benalthra(sp) that Drizzsdt killed via neck crits, those rotting roltons with a bajillion hitpoints, GM controlled Krolvin that would auto-resurrect on the spot over and over. I'm sure people could name other examples.

[Gelston]

There have been a few boss type creatures. The Benalthra(sp) that Drizzsdt killed via neck crits, those rotting roltons with a bajillion hitpoints, GM controlled Krolvin that would auto-resurrect on the spot over and over. I'm sure people could name other examples.

Fethidmore! Banaltras were the other things that slaughtered people all over the town randomly.

[Fallen]

Fethidmore! Banaltras were the other things that slaughtered people all over the town randomly.

My bad. I think both incidents were before my time, or at least before the time where I actively paid attention to that crap in game.

[Gelston]

My bad. I think both incidents were before my time, or at least before the time where I actively paid attention to that crap in game.

It was one of my favorite things ever. The banaltra attacks, that is. You'd be sitting there in complete peace, and then bam, banaltras pop up and lay waste to all the AFKers.

[Methais]

AFKers.

They prefer the term AFK-American.

Racist.

[Gelston]

They prefer the term AFK-American.

Racist.

What about all the people who play GS that aren't American?

WHO IS THE RACIST NOW?

[Soulance]

While I like the idea of "boss" style creatures as it might promote more group hunting, I still run into screen scroll issues. It'd be nice to have a window pop up in SF or Wizard that shows the creature singularly, along with some stats perhaps. Maybe HP and MP of the creatures would be nice as well as the creatures actions so they aren't all jumbled with everything else.

During invasions I'm usually just spamming a few buttons and watching the bottom right corner to see if I'm knocked down or, most likely, seeing a skull and crossbones.

[Soulance]

Maybe someone could design an UBERBAR style script that fits along the side panel with creature info depending on what you're attacking/targeting.

[Johnny Five]

Lol them banananananannananas were funny. Chit chatting in the small park, bam 20 pop up, clerics get boners. It was pretty damn funny when the kobolds robbed the bank as well and you couldn't take any money out. people were wailing!

[Methais]

What about all the people who play GS that aren't American?

WHO IS THE RACIST NOW?

Doesn't matter. If they're AFK, they're still an AFK-American.

Just ask all those African-Americans that live in England and have never been here.

[subzero]

Lol them banananananannananas were funny. Chit chatting in the small park, bam 20 pop up, clerics get boners. It was pretty damn funny when the kobolds robbed the bank as well and you couldn't take any money out. people were wailing!

The bank heist was pretty cool.

[kookiegod]

Don't lie. We're onto you, Wyrom.

Wyrom is good people and he's doing what he can with far more limited resources that got more and more limited over the years.

When we did GS4, we had 4 onsite GMs (Taelrand with LFM, Joshua, etc), who were assigned to the project, and some of the most creative coders and workers in the history of GS with Mindra, Mitra, Brauden, Warden, Isten, Lyreadaen, Banthis, me, etc. leading various projects.

Going thru the entire world to make everything Point and Click was a massive endevour mostly run by Pete and the QC team. The day/night event to add night descriptions was done by almost one person, and Brauden, Lothwyn and Voraviel did the story and the mechanics behind it.

Later on, you got the third society, and many more mechanical devs by Coarse. Alchemy by Oliver was an epic project that he got stuck with and still got it done.

I cannot think of anyone I worked with but a very few who didn't put their heart and soul into what they were assigned too. Heck, I got Platinum because of a behind the scenes issue and Llearyn asked me to solve it, and then I was given plat the next day.

GS had some very good years, but people faded away and things got started, talked about, not finished, which led to more malaise among players and staff. The player base also faded away so there is less revenue for the powers that be to play with. From what I heard, they done some very good work porting in quests from DR (Alyias and Sirinia did amazing) but eventually, every GM leaves for one reason or another, burnout is one, issues with management (heh!), etc., but its not on the GMs to fix years of stuff undone. At this point, it would be impossible.

I would pick the top 3 undone and assign them to teams to blast out no matter how long it takes, and then 3 more....and then...

But Mario is doing from what I heard an outstanding job, and I applaud him for it. He works with what he has and he's a hell of a coder.

I bid you all a very Happy Holiday season, and may your best day in 2014 be your worst day in 2015.

~Paul

[Soulance]

Seeing as one of the big issues with this game for the GMs is that encoding or whatever it is happens to be difficult and tedious...

So is there a way we can address THAT issue so it doesn't take so much time and resources? Can they take a break from updating the little things and just work on one BIG fix that might make things easier in the long run?

[kookiegod]

Seeing as one of the big issues with this game for the GMs is that encoding or whatever it is happens to be difficult and tedious...

So is there a way we can address THAT issue so it doesn't take so much time and resources? Can they take a break from updating the little things and just work on one BIG fix that might make things easier in the long run?

GSL isn't complex, just a lot of systems to check, hell, if i could do it, anyone can. :) If I could only spell /laugh.