Training advice

[undernolights]

Hi everyone. I've been away a while, and I'm seeking feedback about my current skills training. I'm about to reach level 70 and get all my experience through hunting. Before I last left the game, I switched from swinging to casting during hunts. I pretty much use 1106. Anyway, here are my skills right now at nearly-70. Any advice on things to tweak or consider? I do have a fixskills available to me. Hunting is going okay but I still die more than I'd like, even with a full wizard spell up.

Thanks for any thoughts!

>skills
Kestrynna (at level 69), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Physical Fitness...................| 183 83
Arcane Symbols.....................| 120 30
Magic Item Use.....................| 130 35
Spell Aiming.......................| 174 74
Harness Power......................| 177 77
Mental Mana Control................| 120 30
Spirit Mana Control................| 128 34
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 170 70
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 170 70
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 171 71
Survival...........................| 120 30
Perception.........................| 120 30
Climbing...........................| 130 35
Swimming...........................| 90 20
First Aid..........................| 225 125

Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 32

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 36

Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 84
Training Points: 144 Phy 0 Mnt (1478 Phy converted to Mnt)

[Cereal Killer]

The best way to tweak your training is to figure out how you're dying and address that concern. If it's maneuvers, as is usually the case with pure empaths, the two skills you're going to want to look at are physical fitness (high priority as it's the most important skill) and perception. The low hanging fruit in your build seem to be perception which is generally 1x for everyone nowadays, but I know empaths can grab PF really cheap and as a pure you're probably converting PTPs. Also seek out some rangers for mobility, since you have the spirit control needed to send mana to them anyway!

[undernolights]

Helpful! Yes, maneuvers are what usually get me. Thanks.

[Velfi]

PF is ridiculously cheap for an empath, 1/2/4 PTP per. Definitely get at least 2x, particularly if maneuvers are giving you a hard time.

[Jeril]

I tell empaths to train no less then 2x in PF because as pointed out it is the primary skill in SMR avoidance and because at 6 ptps per level it is a great deal for empaths. If you are converting points the PF is a cheaper skill to train and will contribute more then adding ranks of perception. Perception costs 3 mtps at 1x and if you are converting that is 6 ptps, the same you'd be spending to 2x PF.

[Jeril]

PF is ridiculously cheap for an empath, 1/2/4 PTP per. Definitely get at least 2x, particularly if maneuvers are giving you a hard time.

Its 2/4/8, get it right :P

[Velfi]

Oh wait, it's 2/4/8 for PF, I was thinking of FA. Even at 2/4/8, that's still a hella good deal.

Whatever!

[Jeril]

Oh wait, it's 2/4/8 for PF, I was thinking of FA. Even at 2/4/8, that's still a hella good deal.

Whatever!

You need to quit thinking!

[undernolights]

Thanks all. I'll definitely increase to 2x PF. Is it worth it to increase to 1x perception?

[Jeril]

Thanks all. I'll definitely increase to 2x PF. Is it worth it to increase to 1x perception?

I think so. As well as the bit to adds to your SMR avoidance it also helps you forage, when bandits attack from hiding, and avoiding the bandit traps.

[Luscinia]

Spell Aiming.......................| 174 74


Spell Aiming is a 2x or nothing skill, so you should decide whether you want to use bolts or not. There are many who don't bother, but I'm very in favor of it personally: one of the best ways to defend against maneuvers (and elemental warding spells, the other thing that kills empaths) is to lead off with a Web bolt so that they never get a chance to move.

[Jeril]

Spell Aiming is a 2x or nothing skill, so you should decide whether you want to use bolts or not. There are many who don't bother, but I'm very in favor of it personally: one of the best ways to defend against maneuvers (and elemental warding spells, the other thing that kills empaths) is to lead off with a Web bolt so that they never get a chance to move.

Or instead of wasting that shot with web bolt you can kill, murder, maim them with something else. One on one you've got better options, and if there is more then one you're possibly giving something a chance by using web bolt.

No idea how bolting works out around 70, but I switched my empath to it at 53ish just to try it and I hate it. On the plus side he can still use boneshatter on some things. I did roll my empath up just to boneshatter though, if I want to bolt I play a wizard. I also believe wands are stupid, the only ones I don't mind using are oak wands. To me the goal of any character should be to hunt with your own power without the aid of such things.

[TheLastShamurai]

Things to consider:
PF to 2x
Perception to 1x
SMC to 1x or more
MMC to ZERO, Empaths don't need it anymore unless you're a fan of 1110. Put those points to getting SMC to 1x.
Spell Aim to 2x or zero.
Buy a chrism holder.
Get massies.
Find a hunting partner...

Yeah, that's about it.

[TheLastShamurai]

Or instead of wasting that shot with web bolt you can kill, murder, maim them with something else. One on one you've got better options, and if there is more then one you're possibly giving something a chance by using web bolt.

No idea how bolting works out around 70, but I switched my empath to it at 53ish just to try it and I hate it. On the plus side he can still use boneshatter on some things. I did roll my empath up just to boneshatter though, if I want to bolt I play a wizard. I also believe wands are stupid, the only ones I don't mind using are oak wands. To me the goal of any character should be to hunt with your own power without the aid of such things.

I had the opposite experience, when I switched to no SA, I hated that. I ALWAYS find an excuse to have 111. Maybe later I won't need it anymore and can put those points elsewhere. Right now though, I need it.

[Luscinia]

Or instead of wasting that shot with web bolt you can kill, murder, maim them with something else. One on one you've got better options, and if there is more then one you're possibly giving something a chance by using web bolt.

If there's more than one then you're giving them a chance by using Bone Shatter too!

It all depends on what you are fighting, of course. Griffins are the go-to example for a creature that isn't susceptible to stuns and even Wither has a diminished effect on them due to natural damage padding, but are trivial if you can web. Vaespilons come to mind as something else that's easily taken out by bolts (111 or 1110) vs. cloth damage factors, instead of rolling the dice on possibly getting a stun via Bone Shatter against their padding before they start imploding.

Anyway, the OP has been mainly using Bone Shatter and still dying, so my advice is to do something to prevent that maneuver open roll from happening in the first place, like every other pure learns to do. It doesn't have to be bolts, but there are other options than just sticking to 1106 even when it's not working.

[Moonwitch]

Personally I love bolting. I could not give it up. Diversity is your friend.

[Jeril]

If there's more than one then you're giving them a chance by using Bone Shatter too!

It all depends on what you are fighting, of course. Griffins are the go-to example for a creature that isn't susceptible to stuns and even Wither has a diminished effect on them due to natural damage padding, but are trivial if you can web. Vaespilons come to mind as something else that's easily taken out by bolts (111 or 1110) vs. cloth damage factors, instead of rolling the dice on possibly getting a stun via Bone Shatter against their padding before they start imploding.

Anyway, the OP has been mainly using Bone Shatter and still dying, so my advice is to do something to prevent that maneuver open roll from happening in the first place, like every other pure learns to do. It doesn't have to be bolts, but there are other options than just sticking to 1106 even when it's not working.

Plain old web works on griffins a lot better then web bolt.

[Luscinia]

Plain old web works on griffins a lot better then web bolt.

I understand this opinion when a character doesn't have a great deal of Summoning lore. I didn't think it was all that great when I had only 100 ranks. This is why I love it now:



You gesture at a war griffin.
Cloudy wisps swirl about a war griffin.
CS: +412 - TD: +384 + CvA: +25 + d100: +57 == +110
Warding failed!
The wisps solidify into thick strands of webbing that tighten about its body!
A war griffin tumbles to the ground!

You gesture at a war griffin.
You shoot strands of webbing at a war griffin!
AS: +459 vs DS: +304 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +28 = +216
... and hit for 46 points of damage!
Nice shiner to right eye!
A war griffin is firmly webbed in place.
A war griffin tumbles to the ground!


The griffin does not get to make a TD roll against the bolt version (which also only costs half mana). It will fail the AS/DS check every time, and when it does, the web works unfailingly because the player character's lore ranks are the only factor.

[Jeril]

I understand this opinion when a character doesn't have a great deal of Summoning lore. I didn't think it was all that great when I had only 100 ranks. This is why I love it now:



You gesture at a war griffin.
Cloudy wisps swirl about a war griffin.
CS: +412 - TD: +384 + CvA: +25 + d100: +57 == +110
Warding failed!
The wisps solidify into thick strands of webbing that tighten about its body!
A war griffin tumbles to the ground!

You gesture at a war griffin.
You shoot strands of webbing at a war griffin!
AS: +459 vs DS: +304 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +28 = +216
... and hit for 46 points of damage!
Nice shiner to right eye!
A war griffin is firmly webbed in place.
A war griffin tumbles to the ground!


The griffin does not get to make a TD roll against the bolt version (which also only costs half mana). It will fail the AS/DS check every time, and when it does, the web works unfailingly because the player character's lore ranks are the only factor.

You need a lot more training to make that web bolt work as well as the 99% chance you'd be able to get out of using CS.

[Luscinia]

You need a lot more training to make that web bolt work as well as the 99% chance you'd be able to get out of using CS.

How are you getting that number?

The griffin in the above log had a 384 TD (after the -25 pushdown for Web). In order to ensure a 101 endroll, a character would need a MnS CS of 459. A level 100 character with full 3x spell training and the standard (166, 67, 67) split would have a MnS CS of... 444? I might not have rounded completely correctly but I don't think it's much more than that.

[Jeril]

How are you getting that number?

The griffin in the above log had a 384 TD (after the -25 pushdown for Web). In order to ensure a 101 endroll, a character would need a MnS CS of 459. A level 100 character with full 3x spell training and the standard (166, 67, 67) split would have a MnS CS of... 444? I might not have rounded completely correctly but I don't think it's much more than that.

It would be 448 without enhancives or anything. And I got 99% because with a high enough CS that is the chance you can ward something d100 - fumble. For web bolt to have the same effeciency you need to be 2x in spell aim and have 118 ranks of summoning lore. And it would be easy enough to arrange spells, or just get enhancives to boost one up to that 459 CS where one would need 140 ranks of summoning to be comparable. And even with the somewhat recent nerf to boneshatter it is still stupidly powerful and the best spell to be using in OTF. So having spell aim over 3x spells to hunt there isn't the most practical thing to be doing.