Scripting vs. Roleplaying? [Archive] - The Gemstone IV Players' Corner

Fallen

10-15-2014, 08:33 AM

Hot topic lately!

I'm just pondering why these two aspects of gameplay are so often at odds when in practice, most of us rely on scripts for various functions and also enjoy roleplaying?

Is it perhaps a misunderstanding of what constitutes roleplaying? I find many players on both sides seem to have it in mind that only a certain level of quality interaction makes the cut. But is it really a choice between LARPing in a grocery store aisle and firing up a hunting script on your way out the door to work in the morning? I'm not convinced!

What do you think?

~Taverkin

The question becomes, is it true that the more you script the less you roleplay? I used a lot of scripts when I played, but I never would hit ;bigshot and 15 minutes later would be in the same spot as I started, having spelled up, got a bounty task, hunted, turned in bounty task, sold off loot, and entered rest mode at a super node. I don't think it's possible to roleplay WHILE scripting, so it could be said that any tasks you automate is a task you won't be engaging in roleplay as you do it.

That being said, the idea that "only a certain level of quality interaction makes the cut" is a tricky one. Are we calling training guild skills roleplay? Having boxes opened roleplay? Having someone spell you up is roleplay? All of these things CAN be a roleplay interaction, but there has to be some exchange between the characters beyond simple executions of mechanics.

I can see Wrathbringer's argument that when you automate nearly every task, you eliminate the chance for roleplaying during those tasks. But in Gemstone, there is a lot of painfully annoying tasks which must be completed to advance your character. Over...and over..and over. We shouldn't only be "In roleplaying mode" during storylines or at festivals, but at the same time we shouldn't be expected to be "on" in every moment we spend logged into the game. I find the mark of a good roleplayer is someone who sees every opportunity, especially every engagement with another character, as a possible chance at an entertaining interaction.

Buckwheet

10-15-2014, 08:41 AM

I think what burned me out was helping run three MHOs. I spent a decent amount of my playing time gathering prizes, planning games, trying out toys and the like to see if you could make it "fun". So when I had time to hunt I just felt like it was very compressed down and I just wanted to blow through that XXX.

Fallen

10-15-2014, 08:45 AM

Soulance

10-15-2014, 09:12 AM

The question becomes, is it true that the more you script the less you roleplay?
For me, scripting give me MORE time to RP should I choose.

Astray

10-15-2014, 09:14 AM

Fallen

10-15-2014, 09:17 AM

I can understand cracking down on event scripting but general scripting crack downs aren't going to accomplish much but piss off a giant proportion of the people who do script, which turns out to be a majority.

I grant you that script checks are annoying, but AFK scripting, especially in public, should never be seen as an acceptable practice.

Astray

10-15-2014, 09:25 AM

I grant you that script checks are annoying, but AFK scripting, especially in public, should never be seen as an acceptable practice.

And I'll agree.

JackWhisper

10-15-2014, 09:29 AM

You know what fucking with scripting is going to get everyone?

Dead.

Repeatedly dead, and decayed.

Why?

Because Kaedra uses scripts 100% to get around the world. She doesn't do it by memory.

Buckwheet

10-15-2014, 09:30 AM

You know what fucking with scripting is going to get everyone?

Dead.

Repeatedly dead, and decayed.

Why?

Because Kaedra uses scripts 100% to get around the world. She doesn't do it by memory.

All part of the plan to sell more death salve from the store.

Viekn

10-15-2014, 09:37 AM

1. I think a lot about how to role play. But when the majority of the time the only things you are doing are hunting/resting/selling items, etc., how does one effectively role play in those mundane type of situations? If someone has figured this out, I'd really like to know, and please give examples.

2. I'm sure this won't happen, but what I'd like to see is a "slow-mode" option for scripts like go2 or sloot. When I walk to get my mail or from one building to another, you don't see everyone running as fast as you can, do you? No, they're walking. So why can't ;go2 have an option that "walks" you somewhere (with pauses of 2-3 seconds in each room?) or why can't sloot go slower so that it's just not this massive screen scroll when someone comes in to locksmith to open boxes? This doesn't necessarily fix the problem but I think it makes it easier to bear when someone does that AND opens up the possibility that I might be able to catch more of what's going on around me and interact while the script is happening. Plus wouldn't this be a more true to life way to do it anyway? Imagine running ;grocerystore IRL and everyone runs in, throws things in their cart high speed, throws money at the cashier, and runs out? Ridiculous, so why are most scripts set up that way? I'm not saying to eliminate the current scripts that do things fast, but an option to run scripts slow would be nice.

3. This point was made in another thread, but when doing mundane things like gemshop, NPC locksmith, etc., most people aren't going to talk to strangers just to RP. And I think it's wrong to fault someone for not RP'ing those situations. Sometimes I'd prefer to get those things done faster so that I can go to TSC/Hearthstone/Park/wherever and do my RP'ing there. But shouldn't that be my choice without someone faulting me for it? Perhaps the people who are expecting RP to happen in almost every instance of the game needs to do some soul searching and consider GS Platinum instead of Prime?

Silvean

10-15-2014, 09:42 AM

Afk scripting is the real problem because it disrupts game balance when someone can advance their character 24 hours a day. Any mechanical accomplishment in the game earned legitimately is lessened by the person achieving 3x the same accomplishment while asleep. With the exception of Jeril writing the most manned-up fucking post in the history of online forums, some of the people caught afk scripting over the last year have responded with resentment and anger. In some cases I think the people caught afk scripting have been deliberately misleading about what happened. Players are going to report afk scripters. GMs are going to enforce this part of the policy and they ought to.

As an aside, we have another thread going where the player (Buckwheet) is upset that he was chastised after a 15-second delay in successfully answering a script check. That's a separate issue that, if I understand it correctly, has more to do with one's opinion over whether the GM was rude or not.

The complaints I read about non-afk scripting focus on screen scroll and a lack of character interaction. Neither complaint makes a lot of sense to me. Screen scroll would need to be pretty intense to cause a problem and you can't force people to interact with you whether they are scripting or not. A lot of the conversation about scripting over the last year or more has been confused; there's obviously no inherent contradiction between using scripts and roleplaying.

Gemstone has always had a small group of purists who dislike anything that seems to break immersion and contradict their vision of the game, e.g. scripting and MAing. I'm sympathetic to anyone who is serious about roleplaying but any purists left are fighting a long-finished battle and nostalgic for a game that never existed.

Buckwheet

10-15-2014, 09:44 AM

2. I'm sure this won't happen, but what I'd like to see is a "slow-mode" option for scripts like go2 or sloot. When I walk to get my mail or from one building to another, you don't see everyone running as fast as you can, do you? No, they're walking. So why can't ;go2 have an option that "walks" you somewhere (with pauses of 2-3 seconds in each room?) or why can't sloot go slower so that it's just not this massive screen scroll when someone comes in to locksmith to open boxes? This doesn't necessarily fix the problem but I think it makes it easier to bear when someone does that AND opens up the possibility that I might be able to catch more of what's going on around me and interact while the script is happening. Plus wouldn't this be a more true to life way to do it anyway? Imagine running ;grocerystore IRL and everyone runs in, throws things in their cart high speed, throws money at the cashier, and runs out? Ridiculous, so why are most scripts set up that way? I'm not saying to eliminate the current scripts that do things fast, but an option to run scripts slow would be nice.

Sounds like you should learn some Ruby and make those changes with the help of some of the more knowledgeable scriptwriters who like to help out. These scripts are not something that can't be modified to do what you want.

JackWhisper

10-15-2014, 09:50 AM

....I would KILL for the ;grocerystore script.

Seriously.

You ever been to a Costco on a Saturday? God damned Asians filling the place fuller than a porn star's hot box.

Buckwheet

10-15-2014, 09:52 AM

....I would KILL for the ;grocerystore script.

Seriously.

You ever been to a Costco on a Saturday? God damned Asians filling the place fuller than a porn star's hot box.

Its only surpassed by late tailgating hipsters on Sunday....

Viekn

10-15-2014, 09:57 AM

....I would KILL for the ;grocerystore script.

Seriously.

You ever been to a Costco on a Saturday? God damned Asians filling the place fuller than a porn star's hot box.

Not unless I have a death wish. I actually tried it with my two young kids once. I was lucky one of them made it out alive.

No, no. It's Costo on a weekday morning and regular grocery store on Sunday morning. That is bliss my friend.

Hightower

10-15-2014, 10:04 AM

JackWhisper

10-15-2014, 10:18 AM

I've gotten two RPA's for absolutely retarded roleplaying during hunting.

Step 1: Enter hunting ground.
Step 2: Kill like 10 monsters.
Step 3: Get angrier and angrier, growling at corpses.
Step 4: Make sure nobody else is hunting around you to witness your stupidity.
Step 5: Watch The Matrix: Revolutions.
Step 6: Look around and see what sort of environment you're hunting in. IE: Mountain, Cavern, Castle, Etc at el.
Step 7: Murder another critter.
Step 8: >yell This is my mountain! MY MOUNTAIN!
Step 9: Rinse/repeat everything but step 5 until ready to go back and defry.
Step 10: Profit.

JackWhisper

10-15-2014, 10:22 AM

Yeah Viekn. I go to Costco every other Wednesday now. I learned my lesson.

Aiska

10-15-2014, 11:26 AM

As I see it as long as you remain IC you're doing it right. You don't have to contrive reasons to appear to be"role-playing" when you're out hunting for instance. Although if that does something for you then go right ahead!

Yeah, no. There are definitely people who just lump all scripters in together and strut around like some cracked-out peacock about it.

Full disclosure for people who don't know me: I am a hardcore roletard. I barbie up my character, am heavily involved in the current storyline, roleplay when others aren't around, write the GMs about story-related things, and make posts on the officials about stuff like immersion. I am a huge fucking nerd about playing dress up and pretend.

I also script everything. Since I powerhunt and chain bounties, and, you know, like to do things that aren't GS, what usually ends up happening is that my tablet is open to GS while an automated Aiska grinds on loop and I busy myself with something else.

However much I like RP, RP is not the only reason I am here. If you see me standing around with a desc full of enhancives and weapon out, or on LNet asking after gems or spellups, chances are probably good I'm completing tasks and am not interested in a prolonged interaction with you. In the same vein, if I'm out hunting and trip over you, you'll get at most a brief hello from me if I don't ignore you altogether.

I will never intentionally break character or be OOC, but I don't want to RP all the time. And this drives some people nuts. I've had one person completely freak out on me in PMs that I was being an exclusionary jackass because at that particular moment I was prioritizing XP gain over character interaction, and another tell me they'd "lost all respect for me" upon discovering I wrote an (extremely considerate) script to hunt my character. Seriously?

I am not "always on." Sometimes I want to entertain myself, not you, and I resent the implication that people like me somehow damage the community because I don't have twenty years' worth of muscle memory and prefer to do things another way.

Buckwheet

10-15-2014, 11:34 AM

Yeah, no. There are definitely people who just lump all scripters in together and strut around like some cracked-out peacock about it.

Full disclosure for people who don't know me: I am a hardcore roletard. I barbie up my character, am heavily involved in the current storyline, roleplay when others aren't around, write the GMs about story-related things, and make posts on the officials about stuff like immersion. I am a huge fucking nerd about playing dress up and pretend.

I also script everything. Since I powerhunt and chain bounties, and, you know, like to do things that aren't GS, what usually ends up happening is that my tablet is open to GS while an automated Aiska grinds on loop and I busy myself with something else.

However much I like RP, RP is not the only reason I am here. If you see me standing around with a desc full of enhancives and weapon out, or on LNet asking after gems or spellups, chances are probably good I'm completing tasks and am not interested in a prolonged interaction with you. In the same vein, if I'm out hunting and trip over you, you'll get at most a brief hello from me if I don't ignore you altogether.

I will never intentionally break character or be OOC, but I don't want to RP all the time. And this drives some people nuts. I've had one person completely freak out on me in PMs that I was being an exclusionary jackass because at that particular moment I was prioritizing XP gain over character interaction, and another tell me they'd "lost all respect for me" upon discovering I wrote an (extremely considerate) script to hunt my character. Seriously?

I am not "always on." Sometimes I want to entertain myself, not you, and I resent the implication that people like me somehow damage the community because I don't have twenty years' worth of muscle memory and prefer to do things another way.

This is spot on to what I tried, very horribly, to say. Except instead of "barbie" I really enjoyed MHO events.

Tenlaar

10-15-2014, 11:37 AM

So many of the "hardcore roleplayers" are just complete dicks about it, as if every person they pass on the street owes them some interesting interaction just for having the privilege of being near them. Look at what Starchitin posted on the officials, for example:

Reading this thread, it occurs to me that there are quite a few people that would get just as much enjoyment and save quite a bit of money playing Idle Mine. Thank you to those people for continuing to pay for your subscriptions and keep the game alive for those of us that actually play it.

What a dick. I get so tired of people thinking that if you don't play exactly how they do you are doing it wrong and they should just feel free to insult and/or belittle you.

Sorcasaurus

10-15-2014, 11:41 AM

Yeah, no. There are definitely people who just lump all scripters in together and strut around like some cracked-out peacock about it.

Full disclosure for people who don't know me: I am a hardcore roletard. I barbie up my character, am heavily involved in the current storyline, roleplay when others aren't around, write the GMs about story-related things, and make posts on the officials about stuff like immersion. I am a huge fucking nerd about playing dress up and pretend.

I also script everything. Since I powerhunt and chain bounties, and, you know, like to do things that aren't GS, what usually ends up happening is that my tablet is open to GS while an automated Aiska grinds on loop and I busy myself with something else.

However much I like RP, RP is not the only reason I am here. If you see me standing around with a desc full of enhancives and weapon out, or on LNet asking after gems or spellups, chances are probably good I'm completing tasks and am not interested in a prolonged interaction with you. In the same vein, if I'm out hunting and trip over you, you'll get at most a brief hello from me if I don't ignore you altogether.

I will never intentionally break character or be OOC, but I don't want to RP all the time. And this drives some people nuts. I've had one person completely freak out on me in PMs that I was being an exclusionary jackass because at that particular moment I was prioritizing XP gain over character interaction, and another tell me they'd "lost all respect for me" upon discovering I wrote an (extremely considerate) script to hunt my character. Seriously?

I am not "always on." Sometimes I want to entertain myself, not you, and I resent the implication that people like me somehow damage the community because I don't have twenty years' worth of muscle memory and prefer to do things another way.

Excellent job explaining your point, which many people seem to share (myself included).

Elgrim

10-15-2014, 11:42 AM

I think its safe to say that there are all types in GS. Some that script like lunatics, spending very little time at the keyboard. Some that wouldn't touch a script with a 10 foot pole and feel like if its good enough for them its good enough for everyone. And finally those that use scripts as a tool, but still want to play and interact. I think from a GMs perspective it should be pretty obviously who is who and I doubt that they are gunning for folks who are not zombies.

Is GS worse off because of any one of these groups? Not really. With the exception of additional silver from hunting I really don't feel that a scripter hurts my experience at all. Then again, I'm really good about ignoring people. If anything I think GS is worse off with the hard core anti-scripters than anything. They remind me of bible-thumping knuckleheads who think if you don't believe what they believe then you are a waste of good sperm.

The simple fact is that if everyone would mind their own damn business and just let people enjoy the game how they see fit then there would be little if any drama to worry about. As long as someone isnt directly ruining my ability to play or experience the game then I could give less than a shit about how they prefer to play.

Fallen

10-15-2014, 11:55 AM

1. I think a lot about how to role play. But when the majority of the time the only things you are doing are hunting/resting/selling items, etc., how does one effectively role play in those mundane type of situations? If someone has figured this out, I'd really like to know, and please give examples.

Aside from RPing with yourself which definitely has its limitations, one suggestion I would offer is to group up. Even in the mundane tasks, if possible. There is also the thought net, to keep in contact with people in an IC manner while running errands and especially while resting. Others have mentioned it as well, but using PC locksmiths when available also increases interaction opportunities while carrying out needed activities. The same goes for gaining outside spells and services from other PCs rather than alts. It isn't as efficient, but it does lead to more interaction and less automation. Finally, if there are opportunities for roleplay, it is best to resist the urge to get in a quick hunt during a lull. That quick hunt can also result in processing of loot and running of other errands. I'm guilty of this habit myself. Hunting should (if one is RP-minded) always come secondary to interaction.

I will definitely agree that we as players/characters have a lot of down time which simply isn't able to be filled with interaction. There are steps we can take to limit that time, but it will always exist to some degree.

Allereli

10-15-2014, 12:06 PM

I also script everything. Since I powerhunt and chain bounties, and, you know, like to do things that aren't GS, what usually ends up happening is that my tablet is open to GS while an automated Aiska grinds on loop and I busy myself with something else.

this type of attitude really grates me. everything you do in GS is a choice, being logged into the game is a choice. If you don't like hunting enough to pay the minimal amount of attention to what your character is doing and the status of the hunting area (how crowded it is, is there a weapon missing that you might pick up) to show a minimal amount of courtesy, then don't go.

You (all encompassing) don't have to do these tasks if they bore you so much. You don't have to hunt, you don't have to pick boxes, you don't have to purify gems. just leave the boxes and sell the gems you get outside the boxes and you're done. When you do these things AFK/inattentively, you are unfairly affecting the market.

I am in no way saying you always have to be on 100% of the time in forest gnome princess mode with some obscure accent. People sitting at tables talking about RL stuff doesn't bother me in the least. But if you're in the process of gaining wealth/xp/bps/necrojuice and you're running around so fast that you can't see one out of five/six script checks, you're not at the keyboard AT ALL, or you're unnecessarily rapidly scrolling someone else's screen to the point of annoyance (and no, constantly having to squelch you guys is not a solution), then you're not really actively playing and interacting with the game.

As an aside, and for jesus fuck's sake, if you're fully automating hunting, don't squelch the name of the creature you're hunting, that is very likely to be the first thing used in a script check. Yes, someone did this, failed checks, got a warning, and now claims to be a victim of GM zealousness.

Viekn

10-15-2014, 12:16 PM

I'm going to touch on a thread from awhile back and really hope it doesn't end up hijacking this one, but I think it might have some bearing on this discussion. The thread was regarding exp absorption changes and how the OP wanted people to chime in whether the current system of exp absorption was fine or if there were possible changes that could make it better/faster to get to cap. One of the options mentioned was to keep exp absorption the same for levels 30/40-100 but to make it quicker for people to get from 0 to 30/40.

The reason I bring this up is that I felt my need/want to script things go WAY down once I hit 25-30. Between 0-25, I won't lie, sometimes I bigshotted and left that shit on overnight OR started it in the morning, left it on, went to work, and came home to check on it. I felt bad about it every time, but I still did it.

But once I hit level 25/30, not only did I feel like it was harder to script those levels because critters were harder (not just higher AS) but that hunting was actually a bit more fun. It was more fun because it was actually dangerous, probably because I was able to uphunt better. Also, consistently getting 25-45 pound boxes that yes I have to pay 4k to open but that I know probably has 10k worth of shit in it is more fun as well. I actually want to be there and enjoy that and not script it. So my point is (which may be completely moot given the likelihood of implementation) is that maybe making it quicker to get to level 25/30 reduces afk scripting as well?

Aiska

10-15-2014, 12:20 PM

JackWhisper

10-15-2014, 12:21 PM

I bigshotted from birth to cap, short a few levels near the end when I refused to leave Landing, so I mass hunted warcamps, which you can't bigshot.

Passed every script check. Never got caught AFK because I WAS never afk. May or may not have been watching Netflix on my second monitor and/or fapping to porn, though. But I passed the checks.

Good on ya, Aiska. Fight the power!

Allereli

10-15-2014, 12:22 PM

Since I've never failed a script check, pause three seconds any time someone's in a room I'm passing through (as to not cause undue spam), and brake for corpses/stuns/immobiles/etc, I don't see how it's the slightest bit discourteous. Sorry we don't agree.

Nowhere in my post did I defend AFKers. If they get caught, fuck them. I don't care. You can report me a thousand times based on my posts in this thread alone and I will pass every single script check, because I am always sitting right here.

that's great if you're doing it that way, but yet you say you busy yourself with something else, which I take to mean you go do something else

Aiska

10-15-2014, 12:24 PM

that's great if you're doing it that way, but yet you say you busy yourself with something else, which I take to mean you go do something else

Oh, no, my apologies for being unclear, then. What I mean is I have my tablet open to GS and my laptop open to work/Photoshop/Steam/porn/whatever. I don't like go to da club.

Viekn

10-15-2014, 12:29 PM

JackWhisper

10-15-2014, 12:30 PM

I never stopped when I was using ;wander after an incident in Bowels.

I had it set to a 5 second delay whenever I passed by a person's room.

Walking.
Hunting.
Walking.
Hunting.

Must have passed by this person like six times.

Right before my hunt ended, this asshat busts out an attack on me. I mean full on blue crystal swung for my head. I kill bigshot, and i'm all WTF.

Their response: QUIT STALKING ME! I'VE SEEN YOU WATCHING ME!

I had no words.... I just walked off.

Sorcasaurus

10-15-2014, 12:31 PM

I think scripting is a side issue to some people just being assholes. You can script in ways that impact no one else, have minor impact others, or give 0 shits about others and detracts from their experience. At the same time, you can hunt/sell items/clear inventory without a script and have those same degrees of impact on other players. My least enjoyable interactions are by far people who weren't scripting, just being dicks. Hold the person accountable for their behavior, but let's not blame it on scripting.

Allereli

10-15-2014, 12:33 PM

What's the difference if I'm running sloot at my keyboard watching what is happening or I'm afk running sloot?

the difference is you can react to the gaming environment. If you can't understand the difference in that, I cannot help you. I'd rather that sloot and auto hunting not be allowed, but that's not going to happen.

no one has to hunt or gain experience to play. if you don't like doing the tasks and cannot be attentive to them, then don't do them. I know plenty of people who don't pick up boxes

Astray

10-15-2014, 12:39 PM

no one has to hunt or gain experience to play. if you don't like doing the tasks and cannot be attentive to them, then don't do them

Just treat it like a chat room, really.

Fallen

10-15-2014, 12:39 PM

the difference is you can react to the gaming environment. If you can't understand the difference in that, I cannot help you. I'd rather that sloot and auto hunting not be allowed, but that's not going to happen.

no one has to hunt or gain experience to play. if you don't like doing the tasks and cannot be attentive to them, then don't do them. I know plenty of people who don't pick up boxes

That's a bit extreme. People can use these scripts responsibly and I would argue the majority likely do so. I have little pity for those caught AFK scripting, but that doesn't mean I think they should pull people's ability to script in general. At the same time, I don't agree with the "live and live" policy of ignoring people you believe may be AFK scripting. I will report if I believe you're AFK scripting in my hunting ground, or rarely, in town if your script F's up and you keep running through the room I am in.

No one here believes AFK scripting is acceptable, do they? If so, then they cannot complain too much about script checks.

Allereli

10-15-2014, 12:41 PM

Just treat it like a chat room, really.

some people, not me, take great pride in the fact they haven't capped while playing for 10 years or more.

Sorcasaurus

10-15-2014, 12:41 PM

the difference is you can react to the gaming environment. If you can't understand the difference in that, I cannot help you. I'd rather that sloot and auto hunting not be allowed, but that's not going to happen.

no one has to hunt or gain experience to play. if you don't like doing the tasks and cannot be attentive to them, then don't do them. I know plenty of people who don't pick up boxes

If you are at your keyboard while scripting, who says you can't react to the environment? Will there be assholes that don't pay attention, sure. I doubt making them enter the commands would make them less so, and if they are too inattentive they're functionally afk. See below

I'm not sure anyone is defending AFK scripting, or complaining they were caught while afk?

Allereli

10-15-2014, 12:42 PM

No one here believes AFK scripting is acceptable, do they? If so, then they cannot complain too much about script checks.

people clearly disagree that inattentiveness while sitting at a keyboard equates to being AFK.

people disagree that the speed of the scroll matters and complain ALL THE TIME that their screen scroll was moving too fast to see any script checks, not just the one during the swarm.

Elgrim

10-15-2014, 12:46 PM

Correct. No one has to hunt, gain experience, pick boxes, etc. But then again, if they want any cool toys or money to spend at festivals they HAVE to. No one is just handing out cash and free stuff willy nilly right? If I want to use someone's services, say scroll charging for example (in your case!), will you do it for free if I chose not to hunt and make money? The fact is the game has, and always will, revolved around hunting and looting. That is what it is at the very core and all the mechanics support that. Stating that someone can choose not to hunt, however true the exact statement might be, is really kind of ridiculous.

Yes, if someone wanted to be a level 0 nobody with no gear, no skills, and no way to really contribute to the game, they could. But then that would just be a glorified chat room. Why even bother paying a subscription for that?

Astray

10-15-2014, 12:46 PM

some people, not me, take great pride in the fact they haven't capped while playing for 10 years or more.

Cool.

Buckwheet

10-15-2014, 12:48 PM

people clearly disagree that inattentiveness while sitting at a keyboard equates to being AFK.

I don't think that is the case. I think it is the case that there are varying levels of inattentiveness. 5-10 minutes, in my opinion, is long enough of a script check to verify the issue. Less than 10 seconds is not.

Fallen

10-15-2014, 12:49 PM

people clearly disagree that inattentiveness while sitting at a keyboard equates to being AFK.

people disagree that the speed of the scroll matters and complain ALL THE TIME that their screen scroll was moving too fast to see any script checks, not just the one during the swarm.

Eh, yeah. I don't buy that either. If you use these scripts you should still be responsive to the game environment at all times. It is part of the responsibility you assume by using them. If need be turn room descriptions off and use battle brief at max settings. Isn't there a setting within these scripts to turn all that stuff off/on?

Allereli

10-15-2014, 12:49 PM

If you are at your keyboard while scripting, who says you can't react to the environment? Will there be assholes that don't pay attention, sure. I doubt making them enter the commands would make them less so, and if they are too inattentive they're functionally afk. See below

I'm not sure anyone is defending AFK scripting, or complaining they were caught while afk?

sorry, I was responding to Viekn, I have edited the post to clarify what I was responding to

Elgrim

10-15-2014, 12:52 PM

some people, not me, take great pride in the fact they haven't capped while playing for 10 years or more.

I've got all of you beat. This summer marked my 21st Gemstone anniversary and I managed to hit 41 with my highest character, who just gets enchanting exp these days.

I'm pathetic! :)

Viekn

10-15-2014, 12:54 PM

the difference is you can react to the gaming environment. If you can't understand the difference in that, I cannot help you. I'd rather that sloot and auto hunting not be allowed, but that's not going to happen.

no one has to hunt or gain experience to play. if you don't like doing the tasks and cannot be attentive to them, then don't do them. I know plenty of people who don't pick up boxes

But it seems like in your mind, if I'm at the keyboard running sloot and am ABLE to be responsive to my environment but choose not to at that particular point in time, that that's not right? If I walk from my job to my bank today and some dude starts chatting me up, it's completely fine if I decide to engage or I just ignore him all together if I feel something off. If I were to leave a jousting arena to ride back to my village whilst carrying my winnings, and some dude is on the side of the road trying to chat me up, am I not free to be able to ignore him or indulge him as I see fit?

Allereli

10-15-2014, 12:57 PM

But it seems like in your mind, if I'm at the keyboard running sloot and am ABLE to be responsive to my environment but choose not to at that particular point in time, that that's not right? If I walk from my job to my bank today and some dude starts chatting me up, it's completely fine if I decide to engage or I just ignore him all together if I feel something off. If I were to leave a jousting arena to ride back to my village whilst carrying my winnings, and some dude is on the side of the road trying to chat me up, am I not free to be able to ignore him or indulge him as I see fit?

except that people are using this instance of "roleplay" to ignore script checks and then claiming harassment by GMs

Fallen

10-15-2014, 12:58 PM

But it seems like in your mind, if I'm at the keyboard running sloot and am ABLE to be responsive to my environment but choose not to at that particular point in time, that that's not right? If I walk from my job to my bank today and some dude starts chatting me up, it's completely fine if I decide to engage or I just ignore him all together if I feel something off. If I were to leave a jousting arena to ride back to my village whilst carrying my winnings, and some dude is on the side of the road trying to chat me up, am I not free to be able to ignore him or indulge him as I see fit?

The difference is I think it is policy in GS that you are responsive to the game environment at all times when running scripts. No such policy demanding you pay attention to what you're doing IRL, aside from maybe driving a car or operating heavy machinery.

Tenlaar

10-15-2014, 01:02 PM

except that people are using this instance of "roleplay" to ignore script checks and then claiming harassment by GMs

What people, specifically, are claiming this?

Sorcasaurus

10-15-2014, 01:02 PM

The difference is I think it is policy in GS that you are responsive to the game environment at all times when running scripts. No such policy demanding you pay attention to what you're doing IRL, aside from maybe driving a car or operating heavy machinery.

To demonstrate attentiveness people must respond to the GM in an adequate fashion. It doesn't mean people have to react to you.

Allereli

10-15-2014, 01:04 PM

What people, specifically, are claiming this?

sorry, I don't have the patience to go through all the threads here as well as the officials, but I've seen it.

Viekn

10-15-2014, 01:08 PM

except that people are using this instance of "roleplay" to ignore script checks and then claiming harassment by GMs

Oh, no, sorry, fuck that and them. You agree to play a game where if a GM wants to see if you're ABLE to respond you need to do it. Let's stop calling it script checking and start calling it AFK checking.

To demonstrate attentiveness people must respond to the GM in an adequate fashion. It doesn't mean people have to react to you.
Exactly. If God or my boss or my wife tries to personally interact with me I better damn well do it and if I ignore them, I'm going to get exp docked or bounty points taken away in more ways than one. Nothing says I can't ignore other people though.

JackWhisper

10-15-2014, 01:08 PM

All of this thread is moot. There are two very simple solutions to all this.

1) Be like Kaedra.

2) Be like TGO.

1) (Kaedra roleplays all over the joint!)

2) ;Roleplay

Either way, you are instantly a badass. Nuff said.

Aiska

10-15-2014, 01:10 PM

What people, specifically, are claiming this?

I think she means the asshat who was all "oh, it'd be totally OOC for my guy to respond to that." It was in some thread here a while back.

Allereli

10-15-2014, 01:13 PM

Let's stop calling it script checking and start calling it AFK checking.

I will do my best

Hightower

10-15-2014, 01:15 PM

this type of attitude really grates me. everything you do in GS is a choice, being logged into the game is a choice. If you don't like hunting enough to pay the minimal amount of attention to what your character is doing and the status of the hunting area (how crowded it is, is there a weapon missing that you might pick up) to show a minimal amount of courtesy, then don't go.

You (all encompassing) don't have to do these tasks if they bore you so much. You don't have to hunt, you don't have to pick boxes, you don't have to purify gems. just leave the boxes and sell the gems you get outside the boxes and you're done. When you do these things AFK/inattentively, you are unfairly affecting the market.

I agree. All of these things are very clearly against policy. More importantly, the balance issue is obvious. It's completely unfair to players who put in the work, and it's incredible to me that those who AFK script seem oblivious to this fact.

I am in no way saying you always have to be on 100% of the time in forest gnome princess mode with some obscure accent. People sitting at tables talking about RL stuff doesn't bother me in the least. But if you're in the process of gaining wealth/xp/bps/necrojuice and you're running around so fast that you can't see one out of five/six script checks, you're not at the keyboard AT ALL, or you're unnecessarily rapidly scrolling someone else's screen to the point of annoyance (and no, constantly having to squelch you guys is not a solution), then you're not really actively playing and interacting with the game.

As an aside, and for jesus fuck's sake, if you're fully automating hunting, don't squelch the name of the creature you're hunting, that is very likely to be the first thing used in a script check. Yes, someone did this, failed checks, got a warning, and now claims to be a victim of GM zealousness.

This goes back to a discussion we were having yesterday on the officials. I have a bit of a problem with policy dictated entirely by subjective sensitivity. Take for instance Wrathbringer's thread on a similar subject. He took issue with what amounted to I believe about 20 lines of text produced in a matter of several seconds resulting from another player running the sloot script in the NPC locksmith room.

While we absolutely should be respectful of other players, I feel it's important to recognize that it's a two-way street. Every player will have a different tolerance threshold for screen scroll. There's no way around that. So while we should try to minimize unnecessary screen scroll, particularly when sharing a space with other players, it's not only incumbent upon the scripter but also the other players to share that space.

I apply this criticism broadly to the players I would term "purists". There's a very clear attitude among such players that they own the space and that folks who script need to be respectful of that. According to this mindset, we're not playing the game the way it was intended to be played and we don't have the correct priorities. And that's where you're getting resistance from folks like me, who would otherwise support you.

Not to pick on you, Wrathbringer, but it's a great example of what I'm talking about here. You don't own that space and your expectations were unreasonable, in my opinion. A big deal was made about courtesy in the thread on the officials. Again, I say that it's a two-way street and we need to share. Expecting only one side to give is guaranteed to produce the results we see: nothing productive.

~Taverkin

I do NOT, however, intend this opinion to extend to AFK scripting. That is not something I feel we need to stand aside for at all. It's a clear violation of policy. Having said that, I feel enforcement and policy are adequate for now.

Astray

10-15-2014, 01:17 PM

I think she means the asshat who was all "oh, it'd be totally OOC for my guy to respond to that." It was in some thread here a while back.

To be fair it is kind of jarring to have a creature that's meant to be a hellish nightmare or some fugly as hell troll go "DO YOU HAVE COOKIES BRUH?"

Tenlaar

10-15-2014, 01:21 PM

sorry, I don't have the patience to go through all the threads here as well as the officials, but I've seen it.

Gotcha, it's that nebulous "them" who totally exist and prove your point but you can't and won't identify.

Allereli

10-15-2014, 01:25 PM

This goes back to a discussion we were having yesterday on the officials. I have a bit of a problem with policy dictated entirely by subjective sensitivity. Take for instance Wrathbringer's thread on a similar subject. He took issue with what amounted to I believe about 20 lines of text produced in a matter of several seconds resulting from another player running the sloot script in the NPC locksmith room.

man I hate when I'm in the gemshop and someone comes in and sells a hundred gems one at a time, but I've never reported for it. I think there needs to be less of a belief that GMs are out to get you. they're not the U.S. government tapping your phones and reading your emails. I think they show great restraint in punishing people and do watch for quite some time before handing out any punishment. But the punishments in the past haven't prevented the assholes from sticking around and continuing to be assholes, so they upped them. If you have a history of being caught AFK/inattentive, then yes, you will be checked more.

I think, though, that if your record is clean for five years on a continuously active account, that the past should be forgiven.

Allereli

10-15-2014, 01:26 PM

Gotcha, it's that nebulous "them" who totally exist and prove your point but you can't and won't identify.

no, as you can see other people do recall people making these statements.

Aiska

10-15-2014, 01:27 PM

To be fair it is kind of jarring to have a creature that's meant to be a hellish nightmare or some fugly as hell troll go "DO YOU HAVE COOKIES BRUH?"

It doesn't bug me too much. GM interactions are OOC and in this case they're trying to determine a very OOC thing. I think I'd rather have an eidolon or whatever be all "NOD IF YOU LIKE MY SOCKS!" than hiss and moan and shamble and behave in a way that I might dismiss as generic ambient critter shit.

Sorcasaurus

10-15-2014, 01:29 PM

no, as you can see other people do recall people making these statements.

I'll echo that this was brought up recently.

I'd follow that they seem to be a minority in thinking it was ok. I know I don't, and it seems no one else is coming to their aid in saying it was ok.

Tenlaar

10-15-2014, 01:29 PM

no, as you can see other people do recall people making these statements.

People remember ONE person making that statement.

Silvean

10-15-2014, 01:31 PM

Generic Ambient Critter Shit! All the rage in Wehnimer's underground punk scene.

Luscinia

10-15-2014, 01:31 PM

I don't see it as a scripting vs. roleplaying issue. If someone isn't in the mood to actively roleplay then forcing them into one isn't going to get you an interesting and fulfilling interaction anyway.

As a personal preference, I do like learning mechanics well enough to not be reliant on scripts. For example,

Because Kaedra uses scripts 100% to get around the world. She doesn't do it by memory.
which is awesome, but there are also players so dependent on ;go2 that they can't seem to process the detailed IC directions I give them when they ask about how to get to a place, and straight up demand a room number. And that makes me a little bit sad.

My rescues are less automatic, usually I'll cast a Locate Person then figure out their location from room description and exits. If Kaedra is working in the area she'll get there first, but I've only once let a decay happen--and that was because the room was not on any of Tsoran's maps nor in the map db. After that I spent a good half hour in the area learning how to get around it so it won't happen again, and I'm happy to have that bit of extra knowledge.

Astray

10-15-2014, 01:36 PM

It doesn't bug me too much. GM interactions are OOC and in this case they're trying to determine a very OOC thing. I think I'd rather have an eidolon or whatever be all "NOD IF YOU LIKE MY SOCKS!" than hiss and moan and shamble and behave in a way that I might dismiss as generic ambient critter shit.

Meh. I still dislike it but fair enough on the generic shambling. If it weren't such a dangerous thing, I would applaud some actual penalty based creature things.

A rat jumps on your leg! JUMP to try and get it off! < Would be better to me than "JESUS FUCK DO YOU LOVE DINOSAURS?"

Allereli

10-15-2014, 01:40 PM

People remember ONE person making that statement.

if there's one cockroach...

Hightower

10-15-2014, 01:42 PM

man I hate when I'm in the gemshop and someone comes in and sells a hundred gems one at a time, but I've never reported for it. I think there needs to be less of a belief that GMs are out to get you. they're not the U.S. government tapping your phones and reading your emails. I think they show great restraint in punishing people and do watch for quite some time before handing out any punishment. But the punishments in the past haven't prevented the assholes from sticking around and continuing to be assholes, so they upped them. If you have a history of being caught AFK/inattentive, then yes, you will be checked more.

I think, though, that if your record is clean for five years, that the past should be forgiven.

Some of what I've said may give you that impression, but I assure you I have every confidence in the ability of the GMs to enforce this policy fairly. That doesn't mean I don't see areas where the policy could be clarified or where there might be potential for problems arising from enforcement of a subjective policy. In the case of script checks I think it tends to be much more certain when a player is in violation. But when it comes to screen scroll, it's far less defined. Also, as I indicated, individual tolerance for screen scroll varies widely.

~Taverkin

chowell

10-15-2014, 01:46 PM

I'd like to chime in as well, having played GS since AOL days I have I've not only seen the game mature over the years as I myself have also done. The reason I have continued to play this game over the years and continue to come back to it is because it is like none other out there. The ability to roleplay and interact with others and the mental challenge and opportunity to build scripts combined make this an incredible experience for me, albeit I never AFK script. I personally am not a fan of Lich or other similar programs because I've seen a huge decline in the overall experience of the game over the years such that you see less people interacting in town and more people zipping from one spot in town out to hunt and right back to that same spot, just to then go AFK because they finished their hunt. I'm not saying everyone does this, but that it has been a growing trend over the years. If I script it is to unload boxes or travel out to hunting area, if I didn't I'd probably would have carpal tunnel most of the year. When I first started playing I remember being told that if I was going to rest in TC that I better either be ready to be dragged out the gate or my character be poked fun of, seemed a lot more self enforcing back then..

I understand that there are multiple ways to enjoy Elanthia and that is a huge beauty in the game, as long as players can respect the experience of other people I don't see a problem in people running a script to unload boxes and what not. People should however, take the time to make their scripts with respect to other players such as to not interfere with those possibly having an interaction or conversation. Its not difficult to add a pause or match command that allow you to not fill the screen rapidly and interfere with someone else who isn't scripting. If you are going to script, take the time to add steps so that your script is atleast 'courteous' of others. I don't see any reason people can't coincide, as I mentioned, I think there is a lot of ways to experience this game but everyone needs to be respectful. I also agree that the enforcement and policy are adequate, if you are AFK you are against the rules and should be punished.. its what ruins the game for everyone else.

Astray

10-15-2014, 01:50 PM

Again, agreeing that AFK scripting should be punished. Not EVERY scripter out there.

Tgo01

10-15-2014, 01:53 PM

As an aside, and for jesus fuck's sake, if you're fully automating hunting, don't squelch the name of the creature you're hunting, that is very likely to be the first thing used in a script check. Yes, someone did this, failed checks, got a warning, and now claims to be a victim of GM zealousness.

Uh? That was me who said that. I feel the need to clear a few things up here:

1) As I said in that very post that was 6 or 7 years ago.
2) At the time I was very new to scripting, like, literally I had just started scripting ANYTHING (even moving between cities) like 1 week prior to this.
3) I had never seen a script check before this so I had no idea what they would look like, I had no idea they would have a critter talking to me.
4) I have never, ever, ever claimed to be a victim of "GM zealousness" except that one time when it was pretty fucking obvious the GM had it out for me.
5) Why you making shit up like this? :/

Viekn

10-15-2014, 01:53 PM

man I hate when I'm in the gemshop and someone comes in and sells a hundred gems one at a time, but I've never reported for it..

That does irritate me to no end. I think what these conversations do is maybe help us define what the parameters of considerate scripting are. For instance, I'm still going to use ;wander, but I'll try to stop using sloot at locksmith and use the Empty verb.

Buckwheet

10-15-2014, 01:59 PM

man I hate when I'm in the gemshop and someone comes in and sells a hundred gems one at a time, but I've never reported for it. I think there needs to be less of a belief that GMs are out to get you. they're not the U.S. government tapping your phones and reading your emails. I think they show great restraint in punishing people and do watch for quite some time before handing out any punishment. But the punishments in the past haven't prevented the assholes from sticking around and continuing to be assholes, so they upped them. If you have a history of being caught AFK/inattentive, then yes, you will be checked more.

I think, though, that if your record is clean for five years on a continuously active account, that the past should be forgiven.

To the gemshop point, I have done it on accident and apologized for it. I had been in the process of recording gem sales to gather updated gem value data before I quit. In order to gather that data you do have to sell things like gems/skins one at a time. Not excusing the behavior but its pretty easy to add in a check for other people and just wait.

As to the GM's out to get you, well there have been several documented instances where GM's have abused their power to target specific players. As you said above...if there is one cockroach...

RichardCranium

10-15-2014, 02:02 PM

A rat jumps on your leg! JUMP to try and get it off! < Would be better to me than "JESUS FUCK DO YOU LOVE DINOSAURS?"

http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah212/Adam_May/Mobile%20Uploads/tumblr_mb9nm1nZP91qjz8kjo1_500_zpsa128b674.jpg (http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/Adam_May/media/Mobile%20Uploads/tumblr_mb9nm1nZP91qjz8kjo1_500_zpsa128b674.jpg.htm l)

Jeril

10-15-2014, 02:08 PM

To the gemshop point, I have done it on accident and apologized for it. I had been in the process of recording gem sales to gather updated gem value data before I quit. In order to gather that data you do have to sell things like gems/skins one at a time. Not excusing the behavior but its pretty easy to add in a check for other people and just wait.

As to the GM's out to get you, well there have been several documented instances where GM's have abused their power to target specific players. As you said above...if there is one cockroach...

And GMs don't just target scripters either. I said it on lnet and I'll say it here too. The biggest problems with GMs is that at least a few don't check their baggage at the door. They allow things that happen to them while playing the game to color the way they handle things as GMs. We have this problem because the GMs are all pulled from the game but with little real benefit to being GM you aren't really going to get anyone else to do it but players who love the game enough either.

Aiska

10-15-2014, 02:08 PM

man I hate when I'm in the gemshop and someone comes in and sells a hundred gems one at a time

Say something. I augment my hunting script with sloot and initially had it sell my pelts/gems one by one until a few people told me it was obnoxious. Message received, sellin' shit by the container now.

There are a number of scripters on the fuck you, I do what I want train but I think this thread has proven that not all of us are. A good chunk of us will edit our stuff as to not be disruptive or inconsiderate. (And, well, if they don't know how to edit a script, they need to quit using it.)

Allereli

10-15-2014, 02:10 PM

As to the GM's out to get you, well there have been several documented instances where GM's have abused their power to target specific players. As you said above...if there is one cockroach...

I personally don't know of these incidents, but I know GMs have abused power in the past in other things. With GMs there are steps you can take to have whatever punishment reversed or lowered. When you just drop an auto hunting/whatever script out there for the public to use, there is no way to keep how it is used in check except to have GMs do afk checks.

Buckwheet

10-15-2014, 02:13 PM

I personally don't know of these incidents, but I know GMs have abused power in the past in other things. With GMs there are steps you can take to have whatever punishment reversed or lowered. When you just drop an auto hunting/whatever script out there for the public to use, there is no way to keep how it is used in check except to have GMs do afk checks.

They are posted all over this forum. I have personally been a victim. You won't believe me, and that is okay. Just like you said I should "do some research" with the officials. Typically you will find GM's over stepping on this forum.

Allereli

10-15-2014, 02:13 PM

Say something. I augment my hunting script with sloot and initially had it sell my pelts/gems one by one until a few people told me it was obnoxious. Message received, sellin' shit by the container now.

There are a number of scripters on the fuck you, I do what I want train but I think this thread has proved that not all of us are. A good chunk of us will edit our stuff as to not be disruptive or inconsiderate. (And, well, if they don't know how to edit a script, they need to quit using it.)

there are a great many of you who script responsibly, there are also a great many of you who are incensed at the higher volume of afk checks and the higher punishments

Allereli

10-15-2014, 02:16 PM

They are posted all over this forum. I have personally been a victim. You won't believe me, and that is okay. Just like you said I should "do some research" with the officials. Typically you will find GM's over stepping on this forum.

well that's the problem with the PC. GMs cannot post here. we never hear the other side of the story. you can come here and call a GM unfair, a bitch, ugly, fat, what have you, and you will never get a response from them unless they quit being a GM. Even then they cannot discuss individual incidents and other people's accounts.

Buckwheet

10-15-2014, 02:17 PM

well that's the problem with the PC. GMs cannot post here. we never hear the other side of the story. you can come here and call a GM unfair, a bitch, ugly, fat, what have you, and you will never get a response from them unless they quit being a GM. Even then they cannot discuss individual incidents and other people's accounts.

That is not a problem of the PC. That is a problem with Simu policy.

GMs did used to post here. So you are always going to side with the GMs that is cool.

There are multiple corroborating reports that Andraste over stepped on several occasions.

Tgo01

10-15-2014, 02:23 PM

I only had one interaction with Andraste. It was back when I thought the WARN INTERACT verb was actually useful and GMs would actually take your reports seriously.

I had one player on WARN INTERACT and yet he kept talking about my character in Icemule TC, with my character right there. So I reported him. Andraste took control of the NPC constable, said some shit, blah blah blah. This whole time the person shut up of course, he knew better when he knew a GM was watching the room.

The second the constable left the person started up the shit again. I reported again and got a send from Andraste saying "Just ignore him."

Like WHAT?! Isn't this exactly the purpose of the WARN INTERACT verb? You were just there. You saw him. You must still see him.

Obviously she was buddy buddy with this douche bag and was trying to cover for him.

Yeah. I learned very fast that the warn interact verb is just a joke.

Wrathbringer

10-15-2014, 02:25 PM

Allereli

10-15-2014, 02:26 PM

That is not a problem of the PC. That is a problem with Simu policy.

GMs did used to post here. So you are always going to side with the GMs that is cool.

There are multiple corroborating reports that Andraste over stepped on several occasions.

fine, it is a problem with Simu policy. how many years has Andraste been gone? some of the same things are being said about current GMs, Kynlee for one. It is not her fault she cannot post here, and even if she could she would not be able to discuss any specific character.

saying there's another side to the story is not siding with anyone, it's being open to hearing both sides of an incident before jumping on some GM bashing bandwagon.

Astray

10-15-2014, 02:36 PM

If officials weren't so fucking ancient, I'd be more likely to post there.

Buckwheet

10-15-2014, 02:36 PM

fine, it is a problem with Simu policy. how many years has Andraste been gone? some of the same things are being said about current GMs, Kynlee for one. It is not her fault she cannot post here, and even if she could she would not be able to discuss any specific character.

saying there's another side to the story is not siding with anyone, it's being open to hearing both sides of an incident before jumping on some GM bashing bandwagon.

I used Andraste because she IS gone. Don't focus in so narrowly on the one name given. I am using your cockroach analogy. It doesn't matter if she is gone. It doesn't matter that...Banauge is gone.

Banauge was a total afk scripter - there is your cockroach for scripting and nothing anyone will ever say will reverse what the perceived damage from scripters is.

Andraste was a GM - there are multiple corroborating reports of her abusing her GM power. I get it, you haven't have the luxury of being on a GM's shit list. But it has happened and so that means it CAN continue to happen.

Hightower

10-15-2014, 02:44 PM

That does irritate me to no end. I think what these conversations do is maybe help us define what the parameters of considerate scripting are. For instance, I'm still going to use ;wander, but I'll try to stop using sloot at locksmith and use the Empty verb.

I use a custom script that I wrote for Stormfront. It uses empty, looks inside the box before doing so so that you can see the loot, and should never throw out a box with anything valuable inside it. It uses GO2 to grab 10k coins at a time as needed to pay the locksmith, and also uses GO2 to sell in-box doomstones/oblivion quartzes. It will allow you to specify 3 containers to pull from, and it will also pull from your disk after all containers are free of boxes. It would require some modification to work for everyone, but if any of you would like to have it:

Edit: Actually, I guess all you really need to do is maybe remove the lines pertaining to haste toward the beginning of the script for non-wizards and change the name in the DISKSTART: label to match your character's name instead of Taverkin. I believe I've verified the script works in RR, Icemule, and WL. I've written in what I think are the proper keywords for the script to work on Teras as well, but I haven't verified that. Anything else should be fairly easy to write in.

Also, when you first use the script you will need to set your containers by entering .<scriptname> backpack satchel robe (or whatever your containers are). I think that's all you need to do. It's pretty quick and it should cause far less screen scroll than sloot.

DEBUG OFF
IF_6 GOTO DISKREP5
SETVARIABLE dr 5
SETVARIABLE vc 1
IF_5 GOTO CONTSEL
IF_1 GOTO SETALL

put stop 506
put rel
put inc 506
put rel
PAUSE 1
INITIALIZE:
put .open strongbox box chest trunk coffer

SETALL:
SETVARIABLE cont1 %1
SETVARIABLE cont2 %2
SETVARIABLE cont3 %3
ECHO
ECHO All containers set:
ECHO
ECHO Container 1 = %1
ECHO Container 2 = %2
ECHO Container 3 = %3
ECHO
EXIT

NXTCONT4:
SETVARIABLE vc 2
IF_5 GOTO SHIFT
IF_4 GOTO SHIFT
IF_3 GOTO SHIFT
IF_2 GOTO SHIFT
IF_1 GOTO DISK
NXTCONT3:
SETVARIABLE vc 4
SETVARIABLE contc %cont3
GOTO BOX
NXTCONT2:
SETVARIABLE vc 3
SETVARIABLE contc %cont2
GOTO BOX
CONTSEL:
COUNTER SET 1
SETVARIABLE contc %cont1
SETVARIABLE vc 2
GOTO BOX

SHIFT:
SHIFT
SETVARIABLE contc %cont1
GOTO BOX

BOX2:
EXIT
BOX1:
COUNTER ADD 1
BOX:
put get %1 from my %contc
MATCH NXTCONT%vc Get what
MATCH BELL You remove
MATCH FULL free hand
MATCHWAIT

DISK:
put .open strongbox box chest trunk coffer .

DISKREP5:
COUNTER SET 4
SETVARIABLE dr %c
GOTO DISKSTART
DISKREP4:
SHIFT
COUNTER SET 3
SETVARIABLE dr %c
GOTO DISKSTART
DISKREP3:
SHIFT
COUNTER SET 2
SETVARIABLE dr %c
GOTO DISKSTART
DISKREP2:
SHIFT
COUNTER SET 1
SETVARIABLE dr %c
GOTO DISKSTART
DISKREP1:
SHIFT
COUNTER SET 0
SETVARIABLE dr %c
GOTO DISKSTART
DISKREP0:
EXIT

DISKSTART:
MATCH DISKREP%dr Get what?
MATCH EXIT You struggle
MATCH BELL You remove
put get %1 from Taverkin disk
MATCHWAIT

FULL:
put ring bell
MATCH STOW ignores you
MATCH BANK don't have enough!
MATCH OPEN Having paid,
put pay
MATCHWAIT

STOW:
COUNTER DIVIDE 1
SETVARIABLE boxrep %c
put stow left
put stow right
GOTO BOX%boxrep

BELL:
MATCH TERAS What were
MATCH PAY You ring
put ring bell
MATCHWAIT

TERAS:
put pull key
GOTO PAY

PAY:
MATCH PAY You can pay
MATCH PAY a price
MATCH BANK don't have enough!
MATCH OPEN Having paid,
put pay
MATCHWAIT

OPEN:
put open my %1
put look in my %1
put get coins from my %1
PAUSE 1
GOTO EMPTY%dr
EMPTY5:
MATCH SELL can't quite
MATCH SELL leaving the rest
MATCH SELL nothing will fit
MATCH EMPTY5 ...wait
MATCH TRASH everything falls in
MATCH TRASH nothing comes
put empty my %1 into my %cont1
MATCHWAIT

BANK:
put ;go2 bank
PAUSE 1
MATCH BANK Go see
MATCH RETURNB The teller
put withdraw 10000 silver
MATCHWAIT

RETURNB:
put ;go2 locksmith
PAUSE 1
GOTO BELL

RETURNG:
put ;go2 locksmith
PAUSE 3
GOTO TRASH

SELL:
put ;go2 gemshop
PAUSE 1
MATCH SELL no merchant
MATCH EXIT wasting my time
MATCH RETURNG removes the gems
put sell my %1
MATCHWAIT

TRASH:
MATCH LOOK significant value
MATCH TRASH ...wait
MATCH BOX feel pleased
MATCH TRASH2 I could not find
put put my %1 in barrel
MATCHWAIT

TRASH2:
MATCH LOOK significant value
MATCH TRASH2 ...wait
MATCH BOX feel pleased
MATCH TRASH3 I could not find
put put my %1 in casket
MATCHWAIT

TRASH3:
MATCH LOOK significant value
MATCH TRASH3 ...wait
MATCH BOX feel pleased
MATCH TRASH I could not find
put put my %1 in crate
MATCHWAIT

EMPTY4:
EMPTY3:
EMPTY2:
EMPTY1:
EMPTY0:
MATCH SELL can't quite
MATCH SELL leaving the rest
MATCH SELL nothing will fit
MATCH EMPTY%dr ...wait
MATCH ALTTRASH everything falls in
MATCH ALTTRASH nothing comes
put empty my %1 into my %cont1
MATCHWAIT

ALTTRASH:
MATCH LOOK significant value
MATCH ALTTRASH ...wait
MATCH DISKSTART feel pleased
MATCH ALTTRASH2 I could not find
put put my %1 in barrel
MATCHWAIT

ALTTRASH2:
MATCH LOOK significant value
MATCH ALTTRASH2 ...wait
MATCH DISKSTART feel pleased
put put my %1 in casket
MATCHWAIT

ALTTRASH3:
MATCH LOOK significant value
MATCH ALTTRASH3 ...wait
MATCH DISKSTART feel pleased
put put my %1 in crate
MATCHWAIT

LOOK:
put look in my %1
EXIT

EXIT:
EXIT

SHAFT

10-15-2014, 02:46 PM

I was once on a GM's shit list. I whispered sweet nothings into her ear and wrote her poetry. After that she was giving me free enchantments and alterations and shit. That's how you do it. Poetry man

Wrathbringer

10-15-2014, 02:48 PM

I was once on a GM's shit list. I whispered sweet nothings into her ear and wrote her poetry. After that she was giving me free enchantments and alterations and shit. That's how you do it. Poetry man

Throgg isn't a gm...

subzero

10-15-2014, 03:21 PM

I certainly don't see it that way myself. Do you? And if not, must we assume that everyone but ourselves views things this way?

~Taverkin

Obviously I don't literally mean everyone, but there are a lot of (vocal) people who certainly feel that things should be done in a certain way or it's wrong and disruptive to the game. I've said it before, but bitching about text in a text-based game is fucking retarded. If there are repetitive lines that keep bothering you, there's a squelch function. Let's not kid ourselves and think this is about anything other than the text on someone's screen; people have always gone afk/been unresponsive in resting areas and whatnot, so it's certainly not that scripting makes people unresponsive. Honestly, I'd think being able to have scripts automate routine stuff would allow people to be more interactive if they choose to since they're free to use the keyboard for other things.

Scripting is the devil because it results in text. So do instruments, pets, a zillion items that have 'ambient' scripts, guild tasks that require you to 'perform' for an audience, etc etc etc. There happens to be a portion of the populace that abhors scripting/scripters and try to make things difficult for those people because they're doing it wrong and messing with their game.

Astray

10-15-2014, 03:25 PM

Obviously I don't literally mean everyone, but there are a lot of (vocal) people who certainly feel that things should be done in a certain way or it's wrong and disruptive to the game.

JESUS FUCK PLAY HOW I WANT

Allereli

10-15-2014, 03:56 PM

I used Andraste because she IS gone. Don't focus in so narrowly on the one name given. I am using your cockroach analogy. It doesn't matter if she is gone. It doesn't matter that...Banauge is gone.

Banauge was a total afk scripter - there is your cockroach for scripting and nothing anyone will ever say will reverse what the perceived damage from scripters is.

Andraste was a GM - there are multiple corroborating reports of her abusing her GM power. I get it, you haven't have the luxury of being on a GM's shit list. But it has happened and so that means it CAN continue to happen.

this is a bit all over the place and includes stuff from the other thread.

comparing the limited number of pre-vetted GMs to the thousands of account holders who are "anybody" is a bit misleading. I'm not saying there aren't abusing GMs, but to say it has any potential to reach cockroach status is a bit much. Using the crappiness of the Officials as an excuse to not have a dialogue with the GMs about going a bit too far in the afk checks is also wrong. I've never seen the GMs taken to task about unnecessary comments that come with the checks.

>>The one argument on the scripter side I do somewhat agree with is that the checks should be more IC, like maybe it rains briefly and a mud pit appears on the ground, slowing them down. if not more IC they should be more direct, which I understand is difficult because scripts look for certain script check messages. The pink faeries and cookie loving raptors are a bit cringe inducing.

We have to evolve the checks each time. When we stay IC, we actually have many people who will sit there and argue they weren't sure it wasn't normal messaging (or ambient messaging).

Countless numbers of people have told me, personally, that they don't feel they have to respond to anyone or the game environment. They were there, they just don't respond to IC nonsense. Why should they care if a thrak wanted to know their name. Or if a lich was peeling back their fingernails.

So we tend to make it jarring, because we need a response.

~Wyrom, APM

>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean

Wyrom also told me many were saying that their characters don't feel they need to respond because it's not IC for them.

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Discussions%20with%20Simutronics/The%20Bad,%20and%20the%20Ugly%20(general%20complai nts)/view/9600

subzero

10-15-2014, 04:12 PM

"there is a very clear policy about causing excessive screen scroll. why can you not grasp that?"

Because everything you do causes screen scroll, you fucking idiot. How many items do you own that cause screen scroll? Look, if screen scroll is a problem, things like censers and forehead gems (and the other plethora of similar items/scripts) not only shouldn't have ever been made, they should probably be removed. The problem is who decides what is excessive. Some people will bitch about you performing normal post-hunt activity. Maybe there is some magic number of commands per minute that GMs use to determine what is excessive or not, but I highly doubt it. It's entirely subjective.

So, in order to not be disruptive, you should just do everything alone somewhere. Don't empty your boxes in the locksmith, get those things opened and move your ass to a table to empty the loot or maybe people should figure out the proper speed at which to do things around every particular individual so you don't irritate that other person's sensitivity to text (loltextgame). And god forbid, don't sell bag of gems at the gemshop while someone else is there; I guess if you've got a bunch you should just step outside (wouldn't want to be bothered with someone else's lines of text) and wait for the other person to leave before going in and blowing up the room with all that text while you sell your stuff.

It's hilarious that the population is so small and spread apart and people complain about lack of interaction, yet this particular mentality persists among those same people. They want interaction and roleplay, but you've got to do everything somewhere there isn't another person so your lines of text aren't disruptive to them. This is what I was referring to in my first post. :chair:

As others have said, the scripts aren't a barrier to role-playing. It's mainly the afk factor.

And how many people aren't assuming a 'heavy' scripter is afk just because they're scripting?

I will never intentionally break character or be OOC, but I don't want to RP all the time. And this drives some people nuts. I've had one person completely freak out on me in PMs that I was being an exclusionary jackass because at that particular moment I was prioritizing XP gain over character interaction, and another tell me they'd "lost all respect for me" upon discovering I wrote an (extremely considerate) script to hunt my character. Seriously?

I am not "always on." Sometimes I want to entertain myself, not you, and I resent the implication that people like me somehow damage the community because I don't have twenty years' worth of muscle memory and prefer to do things another way.

My way or the highway, bitch!

Fallen

10-15-2014, 04:16 PM

"there is a very clear policy about causing excessive screen scroll. why can you not grasp that?"

Because everything you do causes screen scroll, you fucking idiot. How many items do you own that cause screen scroll? Look, if screen scroll is a problem, things like censers and forehead gems (and the other plethora of similar items/scripts) not only shouldn't have ever been made, they should probably be removed. The problem is who decides what is excessive. Some people will bitch about you performing normal post-hunt activity. Maybe there is some magic number of commands per minute that GMs use to determine what is excessive or not, but I highly doubt it. It's entirely subjective.

So, in order to not be disruptive, you should just do everything alone somewhere. Don't empty your boxes in the locksmith, get those things opened and move your ass to a table to empty the loot or maybe people should figure out the proper speed at which to do things around every particular individual so you don't irritate that other person's sensitivity to text (loltextgame). And god forbid, don't sell bag of gems at the gemshop while someone else is there; I guess if you've got a bunch you should just step outside (wouldn't want to be bothered with someone else's lines of text) and wait for the other person to leave before going in and blowing up the room with all that text while you sell your stuff.

It's hilarious that the population is so small and spread apart and people complain about lack of interaction, yet this particular mentality persists among those same people. They want interaction and roleplay, but you've got to do everything somewhere there isn't another person so your lines of text aren't disruptive to them. This is what I was referring to in my first post. :chair:

At the same time, is it too much to ask that you (general) don't spell up in the middle of a crowded room, don't activate your script to wear all of your enhancives, etc? There is a happy medium between accepting a base amount of scroll due to the nature of the game, and being blinded by someone selling their gems/skins one at a time, or an MA crew running into the NPC locksmith and nuking the place with opening 10+ boxes at lightning speed.

Buckwheet

10-15-2014, 04:21 PM

At the same time, is it too much to ask that you (general) don't spell up in the middle of a crowded room, don't activate your script to wear all of your enhancives, etc? There is a happy medium between accepting a base amount of scroll due to the nature of the game, and being blinded by someone selling their gems/skins one at a time, or an MA crew running into the NPC locksmith and nuking the place with opening 10+ boxes at lightning speed.

Is it too much to ask that if i am not spamming your room, or hunting area, and making the choice to not interact with you either at that time or for that time period, that you not report me and make the most negative assumptions that I am a dirty afk scripting asshole?

I do everything you suggest in your post at tables to be considerate. Yet for some reason the second I go out in public in to "your"(general) hunting area you(general) report. Seems very equitable to me!

SHAFT

10-15-2014, 04:21 PM

Throgg isn't a gm...

I was just kidding. Or was I?

subzero

10-15-2014, 04:22 PM

Whirlin

10-15-2014, 04:22 PM

At the same time, is it too much to ask that you (general) don't spell up in the middle of a crowded room, don't activate your script to wear all of your enhancives, etc? There is a happy medium between accepting a base amount of scroll due to the nature of the game, and being blinded by someone selling their gems/skins one at a time, or an MA crew running into the NPC locksmith and nuking the place with opening 10+ boxes at lightning speed.

Simu is in complete control of that.

They could buff durations of 402 and 404 for less spell-up scroll, or offer mana spellup at a lower *MC ranks to deter excessive casting. They could add in a verb at locksmiths to get the quote and pay the quote in one verb rather than the shuffling each time.

If people complain about arrivals and departures, give everyone sneaking and make observing arrivals/departures a perception check...

At the end of the day, screen scroll is just players playing the game. Excessive screen scroll (which is subjective) is based upon what is visually shown based on Simu's discretion. They have full control over how much screen scroll occurs.

Wrathbringer

10-15-2014, 04:24 PM

Allereli

10-15-2014, 04:25 PM

No player is responsible for keeping track of lost weapons and there certainly isn't any requirement as to how to behave in an area based on the number of people in it. Who are you to enforce your ideals on other people?

it's generally accepted as being part of the community. I get it, anyone who asks you to react to a "hello" or to slow down the script or to follow policy is a dictating cunt.

Buckwheet

10-15-2014, 04:27 PM

it's generally accepted as being part of the community. I get it, anyone who asks you to react to a "hello" or to slow down the script or to follow policy is a dictating cunt.

No, they are just another random person like the homeless fuck saying hello to me at the grocery store. I ignore them too.

Tenlaar

10-15-2014, 04:28 PM

it's generally accepted as being part of the community. I get it, anyone who asks you to react to a "hello" or to slow down the script or to follow policy is a dictating cunt.

The problem is people wanting to act like what they want people to do is policy. Following policy != playing how you want. I walk by people without exchanging pleasantries all the time.

Wrathbringer

10-15-2014, 04:29 PM

So you guys are just penises roleplaying textual penises. Have I got it?

Astray

10-15-2014, 04:29 PM

anyone who asks you to react to a "hello"

What if it's not IC for me to stop and be buddy buddy?

subzero

10-15-2014, 04:34 PM

I agree. All of these things are very clearly against policy. More importantly, the balance issue is obvious. It's completely unfair to players who put in the work, and it's incredible to me that those who AFK script seem oblivious to this fact.

Gemstone is not a competitive game. You do not win Gemstone. You do not beat other people at Gemstone. Saying something is 'unfair' in this regard is ridiculous because it doesn't matter. To some it might seem unfair if people have more time than they do to play. Others might find it unfair that people with more disposable income to blow on Gemstone can afford premium accounts, to buy silvers or good items if needed/desired, go to paid events to get said items, etc. It doesn't matter. You don't win. You don't lose. What other people are doing shouldn't have any effect on you. You're just as capable of doing things in standard 4x gear as people with much better gear or higher levels and more skills.

Allereli

10-15-2014, 04:35 PM

What if it's not IC for me to stop and be buddy buddy?

Then if you don't want someone to think you are AFK scripting, as I have suggested in the past to TG, put in a negative response to friendliness, like a scoff, or an eye roll, that is much more IC than being a zombie. When people continuously try to get your attention and you don't respond in the least, that is being a zombie and you may be reported as such and really is that so hard to do to avoid getting on some GM list of people who are complained about for being unresponsive?

Wrathbringer

10-15-2014, 04:35 PM

Gemstone is not a competitive game. You do not win Gemstone. You do not beat other people at Gemstone.

Maybe you don't.

Whirlin

10-15-2014, 04:36 PM

Gemstone is not a competitive game. You do not win Gemstone. You do not beat other people at Gemstone. Saying something is 'unfair' in this regard is ridiculous because it doesn't matter. To some it might seem unfair if people have more time than they do to play. Others might find it unfair that people with more disposable income to blow on Gemstone can afford premium accounts, to buy silvers or good items if needed/desired, go to paid events to get said items, etc. It doesn't matter. You don't win. You don't lose. What other people are doing shouldn't have any effect on you. You're just as capable of doing things in standard 4x gear as people with much better gear or higher levels and more skills.
We're all losers :(

Astray

10-15-2014, 04:36 PM

Then if you don't want someone to think you are AFK scripting, as I have suggested in the past to TG, put in a negative response to friendliness, like a scoff, or an eye roll

What am I, gay?

Allereli

10-15-2014, 04:37 PM

What am I, gay?

is there something wrong with being gay?

Gelston

10-15-2014, 04:39 PM

is there something wrong with being gay?

Gay people don't propagate the species.

Astray

10-15-2014, 04:41 PM

is there something wrong with being gay?

The butt is an exit, not an entrance!

Also, why would it be appropriate to respond at all if my character were anti-social or racist or apathetic? People should expect an interaction just because they give one. That's expecting something and then being disappointed when it doesn't happen. Or possibly being upset that it didn't happen. Plenty of people ruin the game without scripts.

Just look at Foxs.

Wrathbringer

10-15-2014, 04:41 PM

Gay people don't propagate the species.

Correct, propagating only gayness.

edit: and stylish clothes/home decor

Astray

10-15-2014, 04:43 PM

Correct, propagating only gayness.

That managed to make me laugh. Damn it.

Allereli

10-15-2014, 04:46 PM

The butt is an exit, not an entrance!

Also, why would it be appropriate to respond at all if my character were anti-social or racist or apathetic? People should expect an interaction just because they give one. That's expecting something and then being disappointed when it doesn't happen. Or possibly being upset that it didn't happen. Plenty of people ruin the game without scripts.

Just look at Foxs.

I've already explained that people who do not respond AT ALL EVER will lead people to believe they are AFK scripting and will be reported and GMs will look at the situation because it is against policy to AFK script. why is that so difficult to comprehend?

Astray

10-15-2014, 04:47 PM

I've already explained that people who do not respond AT ALL EVER will lead people to believe they are AFK scripting and will be reported and GMs will look at the situation because it is against policy to AFK script. why is that so difficult to comprehend?

I can comprehend it by why do people need to feel slighted for no interaction? If they don't interact when you try, fuck 'em. Why do you NEED to have someone acknowledge your every nod, giggle, wave, and fart?

Gelston

10-15-2014, 04:49 PM

Because, fuck you. That's why.

Sorcasaurus

10-15-2014, 04:50 PM

I can comprehend it by why do people need to feel slighted for no interaction? If they don't interact when you try, fuck 'em. Why do you NEED to have someone acknowledge your every nod, giggle, wave, and fart?

There is also a difference between never responding ever, and simply being cold/distant.

I'm in the camp of "I don't have to react to you", but, if I ignore someone for several days and we're hunting the same area I can't then be mad at them for thinking I'm AFK.

Fallen

10-15-2014, 04:50 PM

Is it too much to ask that if i am not spamming your room, or hunting area, and making the choice to not interact with you either at that time or for that time period, that you not report me and make the most negative assumptions that I am a dirty afk scripting asshole?

I do everything you suggest in your post at tables to be considerate. Yet for some reason the second I go out in public in to "your"(general) hunting area you(general) report. Seems very equitable to me!

You've probably already answered this elsewhere, but are you rescuing corpses in your area? Walking (especially repeatedly) past dead people is the #1 way to get reported for AFK hunting, followed closely by using a wander script that doesn't have a movement timer on it. How big is your MA crew? If it is enough to make the area spawn like mad that might also cause people to report you. I'm not saying that's fair, i'm just looking for contributing factors.

Allereli

10-15-2014, 04:51 PM

I can comprehend it by why do people need to feel slighted for no interaction? If they don't interact when you try, fuck 'em. Why do you NEED to have someone acknowledge your every nod, giggle, wave, and fart?

you'd likely only have to do one action in response and walk away if it is negative and they'd probably never bother you again. maybe they need a favor, I don't know, I don't usually talk to anyone while I hunt beyond friendly hellos to people I know well or offering people who ambush a disk if they don't have one. People might want to know if you're afk scripting and will report it because it can affect the market and does affect the game atmosphere.

Wrathbringer

10-15-2014, 04:54 PM

you'd likely only have to do one action in response and walk away if it is negative and they'd probably never bother you again. maybe they need a favor, I don't know, I don't usually talk to anyone while I hunt beyond friendly hellos to people I know well or offering people who ambush a disk if they don't have one. People might want to know if you're afk scripting and will report it because it can affect the market and does affect the game atmosphere.

I know you're being serious and are right, but I'm pretty sure the other side of this conversation is all troll driven. I should know.

Buckwheet

10-15-2014, 04:57 PM

Allereli

10-15-2014, 04:58 PM

Truth.

how big is your bank account Buck? how much in gear have you sold? you're saying it's not competitive?

EG is coming up and I bet getting some services is going to be very competitive

Astray

10-15-2014, 05:06 PM

I know you're being serious and are right, but I'm pretty sure the other side of this conversation is all troll driven. I should know.

Shhhhhh, don't let her know my points and curiosity are all just a troll. I'll send you more of those made up logs you like, just keep quiet!

Aiska

10-15-2014, 05:09 PM

I'm in the camp of "I don't have to react to you", but, if I ignore someone for several days and we're hunting the same area I can't then be mad at them for thinking I'm AFK.

This. It's a consequence of my behavior. I'm fine with that.

Walking (especially repeatedly) past dead people is the #1 way to get reported for AFK hunting

This is a shit move. Brake for corpses. Fuck's sake.

On the flip side, the other night in the Orchard people were so caught up in the GM-driven RP that nobody was raising the corpses that came in. Drove me bananas.

Buckwheet

10-15-2014, 05:10 PM

You've probably already answered this elsewhere, but are you rescuing corpses in your area? Walking (especially repeatedly) past dead people is the #1 way to get reported for AFK hunting, followed closely by using a wander script that doesn't have a movement timer on it. How big is your MA crew? If it is enough to make the area spawn like mad that might also cause people to report you. I'm not saying that's fair, i'm just looking for contributing factors.

1. Sometimes I raise people when there is lots of crying on lnet about being dead.
2. I would never have the ability to walk past a dead body. If you are where I am then you somehow got magically teleported there.
3. My MA crew has been as small as 1 and as large as uh 11 or 12.
4. The area "could" spawn like mad. If it is, you shouldn't be there. If there is no spawning then see number 2.

Allereli

10-15-2014, 05:11 PM

This is a shit move. Brake for corpses. Fuck's sake.

you can't tell them what to do! don't tell them how to play! now you're just being a cunt.

Gelston

10-15-2014, 05:12 PM

Brake, steal from them until they decay, move along.

Fallen

10-15-2014, 05:13 PM

1. Sometimes I raise people when there is lots of crying on lnet about being dead.
2. I would never have the ability to walk past a dead body. If you are where I am then you somehow got magically teleported there.
3. My MA crew has been as small as 1 and as large as uh 11 or 12.
4. The area "could" spawn like mad. If it is, you shouldn't be there. If there is no spawning then see number 2.

Warcamps, I take it? People probably reporting you for depleting all the Grimswarm camps.

Fallen

10-15-2014, 05:14 PM

Brake, steal from them until they decay, move along.

That's a perfectly acceptable response. People just don't like being ignored when dead.

SOLUTION: AFK SCRIPT STEAL FROM THE DEAD!

subzero

10-15-2014, 05:14 PM

At the same time, is it too much to ask that you (general) don't spell up in the middle of a crowded room, don't activate your script to wear all of your enhancives, etc? There is a happy medium between accepting a base amount of scroll due to the nature of the game, and being blinded by someone selling their gems/skins one at a time, or an MA crew running into the NPC locksmith and nuking the place with opening 10+ boxes at lightning speed.

Again, all subjective things. Personally, I agree the enhancive stuff could be done elsewhere. You're not limited in this by an npc you must be in a room with or saddled with a requirement of having X people in a room and it's something that benefits you and you alone. Casting spells on the other hand can open up the interaction/roleplay opportunities, so that's something I'll do in a crowded resting area. Obviously it's a bit different during events and whatnot. Selling items all that... meh. If someone is firing off a bunch of stuff with a script, is it that hard to just wait it out? It's never really made me unable to do what I need to do.

Astray

10-15-2014, 05:16 PM

you'd likely only have to do one action in response and walk away if it is negative and they'd probably never bother you again. maybe they need a favor, I don't know, I don't usually talk to anyone while I hunt beyond friendly hellos to people I know well or offering people who ambush a disk if they don't have one.

1. I have to? I mean, I've straight out blown people off, entirely IC, and they STILL want an interaction. Why?

2. Maybe? I really don't feel the need to break character for favors!

3. Fair enough.

Fallen

10-15-2014, 05:17 PM

Again, all subjective things. Personally, I agree the enhancive stuff could be done elsewhere. You're not limited in this by an npc you must be in a room with or saddled with a requirement of having X people in a room and it's something that benefits you and you alone. Casting spells on the other hand can open up the interaction/roleplay opportunities, so that's something I'll do in a crowded resting area. Obviously it's a bit different during events and whatnot. Selling items all that... meh. If someone is firing off a bunch of stuff with a script, is it that hard to just wait it out? It's never really made me unable to do what I need to do.

It's fine to take the position of "Fuck 'em", but at the same time it's fine for other people to constantly report for possible AFK scripting. Is it that hard to pass a script check if you're actually at the keyboard and paying attention?

Buckwheet

10-15-2014, 05:19 PM

how big is your bank account Buck? how much in gear have you sold? you're saying it's not competitive?

EG is coming up and I bet getting some services is going to be very competitive

What does that have to do with anything? Its not competitive. There is one or two winners in Gemstone when it comes to bank accounts and gear sold, and their names are Ober and someone I don't know. Their bank accounts and gear value are so absurdly high over my wealth that its a joke.

Buckwheet

10-15-2014, 05:20 PM

Warcamps, I take it? People probably reporting you for depleting all the Grimswarm camps.

99% of the time I am behind a closed locked playershop or at a table.

Fallen

10-15-2014, 05:21 PM

99% of the time I am behind a closed locked playershop or at a table.

If that's the case then I doubt your issue is you're being reported for AFK scripting by other players. You're likely doing something else to draw unwanted GM attention.

Astray

10-15-2014, 05:21 PM

someone I don't know.

Ardwen? Oh wait, he sells stuff far too expensive for anyone to actually buy...

Buckwheet

10-15-2014, 05:23 PM

If that's the case then I doubt your issue is you're being reported for AFK scripting by other players. You're likely doing something else to draw unwanted GM attention.

Running a script AFK that is roleplaying a stage version of a greek orgy between my own characters.

Fallen

10-15-2014, 05:26 PM

Running a script AFK that is roleplaying a stage version of a greek orgy between my own characters.

I'll need detailed logs to better assess the situation.

subzero

10-15-2014, 05:26 PM

it's generally accepted as being part of the community. I get it, anyone who asks you to react to a "hello" or to slow down the script or to follow policy is a dictating cunt.

I have a real hard time with policy when it's subjective. At that point, it starts to become based on the people who whine the loudest and I have little tolerance for those people.

As for the community thing, again, that's how YOU want things to be. People can easily be part of the 'community' and not be on the lookout for lost weapons when they're hunting. Scripting has nothing to do with this other than you're assuming people would find or help find more weapons if they weren't script hunting. And can you honestly tell me most of those random "hello"s aren't done by people trying to determine if someone is afk scripting or not? If I think you're just saying something to determine if I'm afk or not, the last thing I'm going to do is respond to you. When I hunt I don't typically chat with people anyway, so if you're expecting to strike up a conversation then, you're out of gas. Manually or with a script, you're gonna get blown by while I look for something to kill.

We're all losers :(

That's a different story.

People might want to know if you're afk scripting and will report it because it can affect the market and does affect the game atmosphere.

Bingo! Mind your own business. Someone with a lot of free time can affect the market as can someone with deep pockets. Someone that does things in ways you don't like can affect the game atmosphere.

Allereli

10-15-2014, 05:35 PM

I have a real hard time with policy when it's subjective. At that point, it starts to become based on the people who whine the loudest and I have little tolerance for those people.

As for the community thing, again, that's how YOU want things to be. People can easily be part of the 'community' and not be on the lookout for lost weapons when they're hunting. Scripting has nothing to do with this other than you're assuming people would find or help find more weapons if they weren't script hunting. And can you honestly tell me most of those random "hello"s aren't done by people trying to determine if someone is afk scripting or not? If I think you're just saying something to determine if I'm afk or not, the last thing I'm going to do is respond to you. When I hunt I don't typically chat with people anyway, so if you're expecting to strike up a conversation then, you're out of gas. Manually or with a script, you're gonna get blown by while I look for something to kill.

yes, I get it, you want to do what you want and fuck the community, fuck policy, fuck the GMs. I'm sure you'll enjoy seeing how that plays out. You keep referring to how I want it to be, except that what I say is based on discussions on the officials with current GMs. So you can call me a cunt in rep, plenty of you have, but I am trying to relay to you what has been said about enforcing policy and the way they wish the game and community to be. So go ahead and rage and be unreasonable and run your scripts how you want to and I'm going to tell you how it will be enforced based on what has been said publicly by the people doing the enforcing.

Gelston

10-15-2014, 05:37 PM

yes, I get it, you want to do what you want and fuck the community, fuck policy, fuck the GMs. I'm sure you'll enjoy seeing how that plays out. You keep referring to how I want it to be, except that what I say is based on discussions on the officials with current GMs. So you can call me a cunt in rep, plenty of you have, but I am trying to relay to you what has been said about enforcing policy and the way they wish the game and community to be. So go ahead and rage and be unreasonable and run your scripts how you want to and I'm going to tell you how it will be enforced based on what has been said publicly by the people doing the enforcing.

Not responding to players means absolutely jack shit in AFK script enforcement. No one is required to interact with other players.

subzero

10-15-2014, 05:38 PM

It's fine to take the position of "Fuck 'em", but at the same time it's fine for other people to constantly report for possible AFK scripting. Is it that hard to pass a script check if you're actually at the keyboard and paying attention?

Couldn't tell ya, I've never been script checked that I recall. If I have, obviously I passed because nothing happened.

Fallen

10-15-2014, 05:40 PM

Couldn't tell ya, I've never been script checked that I recall. If I have, obviously I passed because nothing happened.

I hear you. I was speaking in generalities.

subzero

10-15-2014, 05:41 PM

yes, I get it, you want to do what you want and fuck the community, fuck policy, fuck the GMs. I'm sure you'll enjoy seeing how that plays out. You keep referring to how I want it to be, except that what I say is based on discussions on the officials with current GMs. So you can call me a cunt in rep, plenty of you have, but I am trying to relay to you what has been said about enforcing policy and the way they wish the game and community to be. So go ahead and rage and be unreasonable and run your scripts how you want to and I'm going to tell you how it will be enforced based on what has been said publicly by the people doing the enforcing.

I haven't sent you any rep. I also don't play and have never had trouble when I did with scripting, so...

Allereli

10-15-2014, 05:42 PM

What does that have to do with anything? Its not competitive. There is one or two winners in Gemstone when it comes to bank accounts and gear sold, and their names are Ober and someone I don't know. Their bank accounts and gear value are so absurdly high over my wealth that its a joke.

I'm saying that if someone of greater wealth has been afk scripting to achieve it, then goes to an event and outbids me or someone else who has not been afk scripting, it is not fair to those of us who do not afk script.

or say someone buys a capped sorcerer and afk scripts necro accumulation and then sells their ensorcells for dirt cheap, is that not affecting the rest of us who are present when we hunt?

Viekn

10-15-2014, 05:42 PM

Let's clarify one thing. I tried to actually look the answer up earlier but couldn't find it.

If I choose to ignore every player I ever run across, and I get player reported up the wazoo, and so GM's afk script check me constantly but because I'm never afk I always pass the afk script checks, am I violating any actual policy?

(btw, I don't do this, I'm just wanting to know)

Gelston

10-15-2014, 05:43 PM

Fallen

10-15-2014, 05:44 PM

Allereli

10-15-2014, 05:44 PM

Not responding to players means absolutely jack shit in AFK script enforcement. No one is required to interact with other players.

except in those cases where the other character is a GM character who made this character to interact in a small group and you haven't responded in any way and he has to go put on the GM enforcer cap (per GM Spalt)

Just want to also add to this and say that the last two people I've busted for AFK scripting has been in situations where I was trying to start two Random RP interactions. One of my favorite things to do is to walk up to people with a semi-regular looking NPC and ask for help or ask them what they are doing(especially in places that are out of the way, like Zul Logoth). At the end of the interaction I usually toss out a small RPA and a GALD offer. Sometimes what you may think is a script check, is just a GM looking to have a bit of fun and interject a bit more life into your character's experiences.

So if you see spiders in the Cavern of Ages, it doesn't mean you were being checked, it means I was trying to liven the night up a bit!

GM Spalt

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Discussions%20with%20Simutronics/The%20Bad,%20and%20the%20Ugly%20(general%20complai nts)/view/9609

Gelston

10-15-2014, 05:46 PM

except in those cases where the other character is a GM character who made this character to interact in a small group and you haven't responded in any way and he has to go put on the GM enforcer cap (per GM Spalt)

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Discussions%20with%20Simutronics/The%20Bad,%20and%20the%20Ugly%20(general%20complai nts)/view/9609

And those aren't players. Those are still GMs. You do not need to respond or interact with a PLAYER at all or ever.

Allereli

10-15-2014, 05:48 PM

And those aren't players. Those are still GMs. You do not need to respond or interact with a PLAYER at all or ever.

THEY LOOK LIKE ANY OTHER PLAYER CHARACTER

Astray

10-15-2014, 05:48 PM

Not responding to players means absolutely jack shit in AFK script enforcement. No one is required to interact with other players.

Play how I want you too! ME! ME! ME ME ME ME!
.

Allereli

10-15-2014, 05:48 PM

.

yeah no trolling there

Astray

10-15-2014, 05:49 PM

THEY LOOK LIKE ANY OTHER PLAYER CHARACTER

I'm missing my GameMaster title.

yeah no trolling there

I'm literally busting your balls over a non-topic.

Taernath

10-15-2014, 05:49 PM

If I choose to ignore every player I ever run across, and I get player reported up the wazoo, and so GM's afk script check me constantly but because I'm never afk I always pass the afk script checks, am I violating any actual policy?

According to the website, scripting longer than 10 minutes or more than 25% of the time you spend in game is prohibited.

Gelston

10-15-2014, 05:50 PM

THEY LOOK LIKE ANY OTHER PLAYER CHARACTER

The ones popping up in town do, but guess what, you aren't going to get an AFK scripting warning sitting in the middle of town. If they are popping up while you are hunting, they won't look like a regular player character either.

And again, I will repeat this, since it can't seem to go into your skull. YOU WILL NOT GET A WARNING FOR IGNORING PLAYERS.

Buckwheet

10-15-2014, 05:55 PM

I'm saying that if someone of greater wealth has been afk scripting to achieve it, then goes to an event and outbids me or someone else who has not been afk scripting, it is not fair to those of us who do not afk script.

or say someone buys a capped sorcerer and afk scripts necro accumulation and then sells their ensorcells for dirt cheap, is that not affecting the rest of us who are present when we hunt?

No. I can throw down $5000 and just buy the coins to outbid you.

The amount of game time required to earn that kind of silver is pretty daunting even AFK.

Allereli

10-15-2014, 05:59 PM

The amount of game time required to earn that kind of silver is pretty daunting even AFK.

I likely don't have 1% in silvers of what you do, I think your view of it is a bit skewed. yes people can just use cash, but the existence of another method does not negate the need to minimize the other.

Buckwheet

10-15-2014, 06:00 PM

I likely don't have 1% in silvers of what you do, I think your view of it is a bit skewed. yes people can just use cash, but the existence of another method does not negate the need to minimize the other.

Its not skewed. I have afk scripted to 14m xp in shattered. The amount of coins earned to get there is uhh not much.

Allereli

10-15-2014, 06:01 PM

YOU WILL NOT GET A WARNING FOR IGNORING PLAYERS.

NO YOU WON'T, but you will have a strong possibility of being reported for being too zombie-like. some people are pissed about it, some people accept it as a consequence of ignoring people.

Allereli

10-15-2014, 06:01 PM

Its not skewed. I have afk scripted to 14m xp in shattered. The amount of coins earned to get there is uhh not much.

you AFK scripted the experience, not the farming of coins

Astray

10-15-2014, 06:02 PM

YOU WILL NOT GET A WARNING FOR IGNORING PLAYERS.

And nobody should. Passing by someone doesn't retroactively hurt their RP experience.

Gelston

10-15-2014, 06:02 PM

NO YOU WON'T, but you will have a strong possibility of being reported for being too zombie-like. some people are pissed about it, some people accept it as a consequence of ignoring people.

Yes. You can get reported. That was never in question. Are you done going in fucking circles?

Allereli

10-15-2014, 06:03 PM

I'm literally busting your balls over a non-topic. MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMMEMEMMEMEMEMEMEMEMME IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

my balls are so busted!

Allereli

10-15-2014, 06:03 PM

Yes. You can get reported. That was never in question. Are you done going in fucking circles?

ARE YOU?

Gelston

10-15-2014, 06:05 PM

ARE YOU?

Yes, me making a statement, and you going no and pulling up bullshit that has nothing to do with it and then finally agreeing with my original statement is me going in circles.

Buckwheet

10-15-2014, 06:05 PM

you AFK scripted the experience, not the farming of coins

What is the difference? Its pretty easy math. Take a hunt where you stop when fried, and calculate the average amount of money earned. Multiple that by like 3 due to no rest time for XP but rest time needed for opening boxes and selling. Rinse repeat.

You don't remember the 24/7 skin guy who did this for like a year where the system was totally skewed in his favor and made what 100m?

Astray

10-15-2014, 06:07 PM

my balls are so busted!

Yeah! I knew I'd get you.

SpiffyJr

10-15-2014, 06:13 PM

According to the website, scripting longer than 10 minutes or more than 25% of the time you spend in game is prohibited.

Is that actually policy now? rofl

Viekn

10-15-2014, 06:15 PM

No. I can throw down $5000 and just buy the coins to outbid you.

The amount of game time required to earn that kind of silver is pretty daunting even AFK.

Thank you for answering (I think) a question I've wondered for awhile. Is that pretty much the way that people are able to afford the 330 million dollar 10x lances and what not?

Astray

10-15-2014, 06:16 PM

Thank you for answering (I think) a question I've wondered for awhile. Is that pretty much the way that people are able to afford the 330 million dollar 10x lances and what not?

Yes, you can go the current USD value of silvers for an in-game item.

Viekn

10-15-2014, 06:20 PM

Yes, you can go the current USD value of silvers for an in-game item.

Right, which I have done, but not to the tune of dropping $5,000 US. More like $40 here and there. Was more or less wanting to confirm the people who have hundreds upon hundreds of millions got most of it from just being willing to drop that kind of coin and did not earn it in game?

Not judging it at all (like I said, done it myself on occasion) just wanting to understand the typical way people have accumulated that kind of wealth. Not trying to hijack thread, but as it was brought up I wanted to try to get a lingering question answered.

Astray

10-15-2014, 06:22 PM

I wouldn't say that. Merchanting is still pretty damn lucrative. Sometimes, once in a three-wolf moon, someone gets a good drop.

Gelston

10-15-2014, 06:23 PM

Right, which I have done, but not to the tune of dropping $5,000 US. More like $40 here and there. Was more or less wanting to confirm the people who have hundreds upon hundreds of millions got most of it from just being willing to drop that kind of coin and did not earn it in game?

Not judging it at all (like I said, done it myself on occasion) just wanting to understand the typical way people have accumulated that kind of wealth. Not trying to hijack thread, but as it was brought up I wanted to try to get a lingering question answered.

Some yes, some no. Some people just had shit from years back that is worth tons now. Some people are lucky and win badass prizes worth lots.

Fallen

10-15-2014, 06:36 PM

Also know that the sale of silver or other items for cash is against policy. That isn't to say it isn't done all the time, or even remotely enforced, but saying that is a "legitimate" avenue for competing with someone who AFK script hunts all their silvers isn't really a fair statement. The silver economy in this game is insanely skewed due to a great many factors, script hunting most definitely being 1 of them.

Note: I am obviously not vilifying anyone for buying/selling items.

Gelston

10-15-2014, 06:37 PM

Luntz

10-15-2014, 06:44 PM

Some people are lucky

Some people...make their own luck

http://media1.giphy.com/media/v9rfTQBNqdsSA/giphy.gif

http://33.media.tumblr.com/4c863cdc9f9efee9da70794dad87cb6a/tumblr_n90q8tBOJg1sxduo6o6_400.jpg

Taernath

10-15-2014, 06:44 PM

Wait until the chinese gold farmers get all up in this game.

They would need to have a customer base larger than a few hundred, I think.

Gelston

10-15-2014, 06:47 PM

They would need to have a customer base larger than a few hundred, I think.

GS isn't a bustling metropolis of a game full of 100k+ subs?

Wrathbringer

10-15-2014, 07:25 PM

That's a perfectly acceptable response. People just don't like being ignored when dead.

SOLUTION: AFK SCRIPT STEAL FROM THE DEAD!

Someone should do this. Make a Kaedra like char that instead of locating, fogging and asking every deader if they'd like help, just locate, fog, steal steal steal steal. I'd lol. Then post here and whine about it.

Buckwheet

10-15-2014, 07:50 PM

Some yes, some no. Some people just had shit from years back that is worth tons now. Some people are lucky and win badass prizes worth lots.

And some ZimZum.

Tei

10-15-2014, 08:51 PM

I am not "always on." Sometimes I want to entertain myself, not you, and I resent the implication that people like me somehow damage the community because I don't have twenty years' worth of muscle memory and prefer to do things another way.

Well you have definitely gained my respect. LOL at anyone getting pissed at you for not conforming to their expectations.

blah blah

I used to respect you, now I just skip your posts. Might want to tamp down the OCD'ness you're sounding like a broken record. It's okay to not always have the last word.

Gemstone has always had a small group of purists who dislike anything that seems to break immersion and contradict their vision of the game, e.g. scripting and MAing. I'm sympathetic to anyone who is serious about roleplaying but any purists left are fighting a long-finished battle and nostalgic for a game that never existed.

My concern is that Simu are listening to this small group instead of the majority of players when updates are made. Unless I missed a survey asking for feedback..

The biggest problems with GMs is that at least a few don't check their baggage at the door. They allow things that happen to them while playing the game to color the way they handle things as GMs.

Wyrom stated on the officials "I don't see the allure to scripting, but that doesn't mean my own opinions cause me to weigh more heavily on scripters.". I asked whether this view is shared by all staff that do script checks - no response. If GM's enter a discussion with a player with a shit attitude, is it really surprising they get a shit attitude back? I'm not condoning AFK scripting btw but I am concerned about how some GM's 'follow process'.

---

Anyway, all this scripting talk is just going in circles. People are going to do what they want to do, trying to convince others to play the game how you want them to just illustrates how much of a tosser you are. Simu has their policies in place and they're doing their script checks so whatever.