Should I Get Married?

[Nakiro]

Well, I'm 19 (20 in Jan) and my girlfriend is 21 (22 in Dec).

We have been together for over four years now, and it'll be five in July.

I'm a sophmore in college with basically four semisters left to go. She is a senior with two (she'll graduate at the end of this academic year).

She is not going to be living with her parents when she graduates, and living together out of wedlock isn't an option.

I am positive that this is the person I want to marry, but the real question is when should I do it.

Should I wait until after I graduate, or should I marry her this coming summer and live with her while I'm still in school? She'll be a teacher and shouldn't have a problem getting a job since she has gone to one of the best primary education schools in the midwest and will graduate in the top 4% of her class.

Since she is a teacher, the best time is really in the summer since that is when she has the mos time off to plan and cordinate. If its not this summer (likely in July during our 5th), it'd have to wait until the summer afterward. She and I are already anxious to be together, but there would definitely be added strain from having to go to school and only live off her income.

If you are married and married while sitll in college or having your spouse attend college, please let me know. Some people say that 20 is too young to get married, but for me, this is the person I want to spend the rest of my life with anyway.

If you vote that I should wait, please tell me your reasoning why.

Thanks!

[Nakiro]

Damn, I wanted to do a poll, but oh well.

[Betheny]

I had a bad experience with marriage.

Let me just say this: People change a lot between 18 and 24, 25ish. Just keep that in mind when you make the decision.

[Makkah]

For god's sakes... you need to get laid.

My vote is on yes. (4 years is a long time to still be goin strong)

The final judgment relies on you... are you ready to get married and is she the one you WANT to marry?

rht

[Wezas]

Living together out of wedlock not an option because of religious beliefs or something else?

Personally I'm of the mindset - you don't really know someone until you live with them. I'm not saying "buy a house with someone", but rent an apartment and live in it for a few months. People can change alot when they see you all day long.

Luckily my girl knew the risks of living with me before we moved in together. And you need to get used to flushing tampons left in the toilet. Although I hear some men don't do that - not that I'm naming names.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Makkah
For god's sakes... you need to get laid.


Jesus, I hope he's gotten some. I thought it was just a "no living together" thing and not a "no poontang" thing. 4 years without sex and I'd have carpal tunnel.

[DeV]

You really don't know a person until you've lived with them and are able to understand and deal with each others quirks and behaviors. As far as the sexual aspect of it, you need to know if you're compatible with the person you want to be with for the rest of your life.

Living together 4 years, still in love and wanting to be with each other for many years down the road; I say go for it on the marriage thing.

[Betheny]

They haven't been living together, they've been in college.

[Burning Scorpion]

I'm with what others said, about the living together thing. People are really very different when forced together constantly and consistantly. I get snappish with my best friends when I see them too often, even.

Sleeping and waking up next to someone is a whole other experience, not always a pleasant one. One or the other of you might be a horrible bed hog, leaving the other one with too little sleep, resulting in bad feelings.

I had a boyfriend who snored really really loudly. I mean, the first time I heard it, I thought someone was doing road work in the middle of the night with a jackhammer. You have no idea what constantly interrupted sleep like that can do to a person, even if the cause of it is the sweetest person in the world in every other way. I've heard about studies of interrupted sleep leading to psychosis and after that experience I can believe it. I came close to wanting to strangle him in his sleep.

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Nakiro
I'm a sophmore in college with basically four semisters left to go. She is a senior with two (she'll graduate at the end of this academic year).

Should I wait until after I graduate, or should I marry her this coming summer and live with her while I'm still in school?

If you vote that I should wait, please tell me your reasoning why.


If I understand this correctly, she graduates May 05, you graduate May 06?
Propose now, set a date for after your graduation.

Reason 1 - Planning a wedding is a ton of work. While work is stressful, I am willing to bet her last year of school will be worse. Let her enjoy planning it.

Reason 2 - Planning a wedding takes time. It is much easier, and often cheaper, to plan a wedding over the course of a year and a half than it is in 8 months. Additionally, you shouldn't have any trouble getting the church, reception hall, band, DJ, and whatever else she wants for the wedding.

Reason 3 - You're 19. I don't doubt that this is the person you want to spend the rest of your life with. The rest of your life is a long time. Enjoy college while you have it.

Reason 4 - You have more time to save money. Even if your parents are paying for the wedding, you should expect to pay for the honeymoon.

My only warning is don't propose and say "We'll get married after I graduate." Set a date. She'll know you're serious.

Jorddyn

Do it.

[Adhara]

I have never been married but I will add my voice to those who say you should really live with someone before you get married. And have sex with them too. The divorce rate for a first marriage in the US is about 50% and closer to 75% if the couple is below 25 years of age. Live with your girlfriend for a year and then I say go ahead with the marriage.

If for religious reasons you can't live together outside of wedlock and/or if you can't have sex before marriage well then... it's a gamble and waiting 1 or 25 more years wouldn't make much of a difference.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Maimara
They haven't been living together, they've been in college. My bad... I mean't dating for 4 years.

[Parkbandit]

I would never buy a car without test driving it.

You need to get on her and take her for a ride.

[Latrinsorm]

Don't let stats sway you, Nakiro. You know how you feel, you know how she feels.

For the actual wedding part, my only recommendation is don't get a DJ, get a band.

Also, damn, I would've sworn you were noticeably older than me.

edit: Naturally, I've never been married, so º there's a grain of salt you can take my post with. :)

[Edited on 10-5-2004 by Latrinsorm]

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I would never buy a car without test driving it.


That minivan hugged the corners like it was on rails...

[Numbers]

I've known at least four couples throughout high school and college who swore that they were going to get married when they got out of college. One of those couples was together for seven and a half (!) years, starting as freshmen in high school, going to the same college and lasting until senior year. Another couple was together for a little more than four years.

None of them got married.

Most people change after college, a lot, and that leads to problems.

I do, however, know one couple who were together for about two years and did end up getting married, and they're still together. Although, neither of them are going anywhere with their careers, are still living in the same bumfuck town that they swore they were gonna get out of once college was over, and live about 10 minutes away from their parents.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Wezas

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I would never buy a car without test driving it.


That minivan hugged the corners like it was on rails...

Superb traction, steering, and throttle response.

[Gan]

Nakiro,

I can understand your delimma. I got married to my wife when I was 23 and she was 22 (we're still married after 11 years this august). My parents are pretty much agnostic and she's a PK so I can understand your choice of not 'living together' before wedlock. Both of us were in school, I was a 2nd semester sophmore (going part time and working) and she was a part-time student/full time worker as well. While both of our parents were supportive of our decision to get married, they were also worried that we were choosing such a life changing event too young. It was said earlier in this thread that folks change alot in their 20's. Let me add that it doesn't stop in the 30's and so on.

My wife and I have been through up's and down's like every other marriage, even faced times so tough that divorce was mentioned. But being from a broken family that is not an option for me, it just made me work harder at fixing the problem, sometimes even seeking guidance from people I know and trust. Being married you are adopting more than just the person you say 'I do' to. You are also joining their family and so it is the same for your wife to be. So with that you'll adopt the issues that exist and may arise on both sides of the alter. Be prepared to face those. This will task your ability to compromise and negotiate to its utmost, it has mine. But remember that your main priority is supporting your spouse whenever conflict arises, that is your first priority before anything else. If you are like me, you might even have to back your wife over your own family, which is a difficult thing to do when your'e family is acting like a collective idiot. You are starting your own new family unit and if you keep that focus then both sides will learn to respect that and things will smooth out in the long run.

As far as the marriage/school thing. Make sure you talk about your expectations together, build a plan and stick to it until both of you agree that it needs revision. My plan was to continue school on a minimal basis while I worked so I could support my wife as she completed her degree full time. Then it was her turn to be the main bread winner so I could return full time and complete my degree as soon as possible. Did this plan work? Yes, she has a BSN in Nursing and I have my BS in Economics. We both have solid careers, are homeowners, and all the statistical domestic perks of being married. Did this plan avoid issues that arose because of money? No, but it did lessen them. Money issues will never go away, just learn how to communicate through them. Communication is the key I think. That and make your wife your best friend as well as your lover/companion.

Last tip: wait to have kids, get to know each other, travel, enjoy focusing on each other through the early years of marriage. Get the school completed and get your career's initiated first. We waited 9 years (a little more than the original 5 we initially agreed upon).

I dont know if this will help, its more a testimony than a what you should do guide. However, I think overall it worked for a very young couple who decided to get married while they were in school.

~Gan

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Superb traction, steering, and throttle response.

I've stumpled upon his minivan. Quite a few modifications (be sure to check page 2, as well):

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/224905/1

[Edited on 10-5-2004 by Wezas]

[Parkbandit]

Dear Wezas,

Please stay on topic.. because this one is NOT labeled "Falgrin's wife drives a minivan"

Thanks.

:loser:

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by Wezas
Living together out of wedlock not an option because of religious beliefs or something else?

Yep. She and I are in agreence on this issue, so it isn't something I can change if I wanted to do anyway.

Though this is what my mom would want us to do.

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by Wezas

Originally posted by Makkah
For god's sakes... you need to get laid.


Jesus, I hope he's gotten some. I thought it was just a "no living together" thing and not a "no poontang" thing. 4 years without sex and I'd have carpal tunnel.

Heh, why do you think I play Gemstone so damn much?

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah

Originally posted by Wezas

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I would never buy a car without test driving it.


That minivan hugged the corners like it was on rails...


Superb traction, steering, and throttle response.

:wtf: :offtopic:

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by Ganalon

I dont know if this will help, its more a testimony than a what you should do guide. However, I think overall it worked for a very young couple who decided to get married while they were in school.

~Gan

Thanks Gan, that was very helpful.

[Axhinde]

For my, 19 would have been far too young to be getting married. I'm 22 and it still isn't even close to a near-distant future. Even if you have been with her for 4 years, 19 years old? The decision is your's ultimately, but I would suggest waiting a little bit.

[Nieninque]

Geez, do what you think is right.

Dont ask this bunch of schmucks what to do

:ducks and runs away:

[Burning Scorpion]

Er, but didn't he ask for advice?

[Fission]

Propose to her if you're certain, but don't get married until one or both of you graduate, and you can actually support yourselves. You'll save yourselves so many headaches that way.

And yes, speaking from experience here - I accepted a job transfer shortly after getting married, and it wound being barely enough for us to get by on. Somehow we got past it, but it's rough enough starting out without adding that kind of trouble.

Still together, btw... 9 years and counting.
:2beers:

[Chyrain]

well i met and started dating my husband when i was 19. we lived together, i got pregnant THEN we got married. after 3 kids and over 6 years together, we're ending it.

i don't think it matters when you get married as long as you AND your partner figure out one thing: Marriage is hard no matter when you get to it. And it certainly will never be perfect. And if you ever stop trying to be the best person for your partner, you'll never make it. You have to be completely selfless. And if you're not prepared to be selfless, and if she's not prepared to be selfless...do not get married.

[Brattt8525]

You have gotten alot of good advice, so all I can add to the mix is to go with your heart. If you and her truely believe in each other, then do it. At the very least, you won't have the "what if" regrets that so many people end up living with. If it does not work out, then chalk it up to expierence and move on.

In the end, only you and her matter. Let the rest figure itself out.

[Soulpieced]

If she can deal with your Gemstone addiction she's the one :D

[4a6c1]

Yep. Do it. Other people have said it better but I cant stress enough how important I think it is to know EVERYTHING about what your getting into.

That means living with someone, making sure you are sexually compatable, going to counseling together, getting to know family, and talking about life goals and ambitions until its been gone over so much you can both recite your planned lives better than a politician.

My advice and opinions only. Hope it helps. And congratulations if you decide to take that step.

[Xcalibur]

I got married at 21, her at 19. Been 6 years, we're happy but yeah, there was some changes.

You do what you think is great for you, but keep in mind that it's a one-way trip, there is no come back.

:smilegrin:

[Killer Kitten]

When I met my husband I was 21 and he was 22. We pretty much moved in together on our first date and married three years later. We celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary this summer.

Neither of us was in school when we moved in together, but over the course of our marriage he's taken graduate classes part time and I've taken a couple of years off to go to college full time and get a degree.

I think our secret is unconditional love and a neverending sense of humor. And nothing and nobody comes between us. I have no secrets from him, and vice versa. We don't lie to each other.

My pet peeve with him: he procrastinates. His pet peeve with me: the cat thing. Considering that where I grew up most men come home drunk every night and get handy with their fists, procrastination isn't all that huge a fault. Considering that his mother turns nagging into an art form he doesn't find the cat thing to be a huge deal.

Always love each other and try to always find the humor in every situation. And follow your heart. Have children only if you both desire to have them, and always present a united front to them.

Kimm/Ex-Tilone

[AnticorRifling]

No
No
No
No
No
No
and NO

[Souzy]

Live with her first. You learn a lot about a person once you live with them. If you survive a couple years, go for it.

[Ravenstorm]

Totally your decision.

Anecdotal evidence: My niece got married to someone she never lived with. Less than a year later, they separated. Until you spend almost 24/7 with someone else, you can't really know if you can stand being around that person so much. Love is not enough to make a lasting relationship. It takes so much more.

So since living together is not an option, I'd definitely say no. Wait till at least after you graduate. Spend time together as adults out in the 'real world' before making that kind of decision.

Raven

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I think I'd ask my friends/family, maybe her family as well... rather than this um... crowd :)

They know her, and you, and could probably give more insight than anyone here.

[Valthissa]

good luck, whatever you decide.

what I find most interesting in this thread is that while marriage has been around millennia and living together is only a few decades old the conventional wisdom (on this board) is that living together provides some advantage/insight into how a marriage will turn out.

for your amusement I will summarize the most successful strategy for avoiding divorce:

do what your wife says, with enthusiasm (yes, the enthusiasm part is required)

the above statement is not mine - it's actually supported by scholarly research (led by women academics, no doubt)


C/Valth happily married 19 years as of last Friday.

[Seran]

Truly, marriage is one of those things you don't want to go into without first giving a good bit of thought. I really am against it until both partners have had the chance to gain stable employment and even more so a chance to experience life. Being in love is a wonderful thing, you don't need to be married to know you are in love. Give it a few more years when you're both graduated and working, then you will be in a position to make that choice. Let's not forget how badly you get shafted when selecting ; Married - filing jointly.

[Sylvan Dreams]

IMO, don't get married until you BOTH finish school. If she's right for you, she'll wait.

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
No
No
No
No
No
No
and NO

Reasons please.

[longshot]

Do it.

This way you can turn in your "V team" sweater.

[Marl]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
No
No
No
No
No
No
and NO

I agree got married after 6 yrs when i was 22 been married for 4 yrs now....not been fun

[SpunGirl]

Nakiro, at least wait unit you can drink champagne at your own reception! Having said that, I understand where you're coming from. I got engaged while I was still in college, but only after we agreed that we didn't want to get married until school was over. We planned our wedding and graduation parties at the same time, and moved from Flagstaff to Vegas two days after the wedding (Jake already had a job waiting here).

I just say wait until you're done with your undergrad degree. That's a lot of stress that you don't need on a new marriage, and you'll have enough stress learning to live with each other. Make it as easy on yourself as possible.

-K

[Burning Scorpion]

Originally posted by Valthissa

what I find most interesting in this thread is that while marriage has been around millennia and living together is only a few decades old the conventional wisdom (on this board) is that living together provides some advantage/insight into how a marriage will turn out.


That's because for most of the millenia, there was little to no alternative. Few cultures had provisions for divorce (especially for divorce initiated by a woman) and the few that did, it was still hard to get and not really all that enforced.

My grandparents had an arranged marriage with that like it or die arrangement, because they were Roman Catholic. No divorce allowed for their circumstances of sheer incompatability. Towards the end they couldn't even hide their bitterness and hatred of each other from the five year old child I was.

And even at that, it had to have been better than thinking they were in love before they married. After all, heaven hath no rage like love to hatred turned, and all that William Congreve stuff.

I'd rather know sooner that I can't live with someone than risk that sort of bitterness and the inevitable self-questioning that must come if my true love can't stand me, or visa versa.


I realize this post comes off as way serious and kind of preachy so I will lighten it with my two favorite adorable board smilies! :axe: :dance:

[Faent]

It's not clear to me that you want advice from this motley crew. Still, considering divergent opinions can be a good thing. Just remember that dozens of people saying "Age x is too young," or "You're a crazy fool if you don't try it before you buy it" doesn't make their claims any more justified. This is a big decision, and you need to give it serious thought. Don't make your decision until you're sure you've made your own decision - and then own it.

-Scott

[AnticorRifling]

I'll give reasons when I get to work but bottom line....

NO!

[Weedmage Princess]

Are you just asking this question here because you want to put it out there or because what people here who (I'm going to assume) don't know you OR your girlfriend from Adam might have some sort of effect on what you will decide to do?

If it's the latter, that's totally not a good thing. Marriage is a major deal and the truth of the matter is no one who doesn't really know either one of you or much about your situation can properly advise you on...anything to do with it. This isn't like buying a car or something of that sort.

Like Makkah said, this is something at the end of the day YOU and you alone need to decide. If *you* feel you want to be with her bad enough and are committed to her and making your relationship work. If you have doubts, then don't. No one else can really...tell you that.

Whatever your decision is, good luck :)

[Jazuela]

Weedie brings up a good point (as does whoever else brought it up)...

Are you asking because you actually plan on listening to the advice of people you don't really know except for their posts on a message board?

Or because you just want to know what people think about stuff, for its own sake?

If it's the latter..I'd say pretty much the same thing Weedie says - you're the only one who can decide what's best for you.

If it's the former, I would suggest - as kindly as possible, the following: Anyone who would seriously consider the advice of strangers whose only common thread is that they play or used to play a fantasy game, probably doesn't have the maturity to handle a real life commitment such as marriage.

[Adhara]

It's also possible he just wants to make sure he considered everything before taking the big leap. Sort of like an investment. You may be convinced today that doing something is a wise move. Then you tell your friends about it, they bring up points you hadn't thought about and suddenly you're not so sure anymore. Not because they made you change your mind by influence but simply by providing new information.

Just a guess of course. Only Nakiro can answer that.

[AnticorRifling]

Don't do it. Go live life, get some you time, don't worry about someone else. Do shit you want to without getting bitched at. Go be free and let me live vicariously thru you since I am dead inside.

[Blazing247]

<Do shit you want to without getting bitched at. Go be free and let me live vicariously thru you since I am dead inside. >

:rofl: Gotta say it in a Peter Griffin voice...

"Sure, they pretend to be happy, but they're dead inside, they're dead."

[SpunGirl]

I seriously doubt Nakiro is sitting there with a pencil and paper saying "okay, three for yes, six for no," etc. He's probably just curious about what people have to say before he makes his decision. It's the same way any of us who read this board and discuss real-life issues are curious about what other people have to say about them, otherwise there wouldn't be an off-topic or social forum section at all.

-K

[HarmNone]

I don't really feel I can opine on whether or not you should marry, Nakiro. That is a decision that can only be made by you and your girl. You two need to sit down and weigh the pros and cons of getting married now. You're the only ones who know all the relevant factors that apply, in your situation, to making a life-changing decision like this.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best. :)

HarmNone

[Weedmage Princess]

True Spun however there are some RL issues that the opinion of a person who doesn't know anything about you can't (or shouldn't) matter at all. This is one of those issues.

Marriage is a major step and something that requires a lot of self searching of the two parties involved. The feelings and experiences of others who don't know him and his girlfriend are completely irrelevant.

Buying a house, a car, getting a pet, dealing with an illness, sure. Those for the most part are more general things. Deciding if and when to get married? We have no say.

[Blazing247]

Buying a house, getting a pet, and dealing with an illness are general things? I'd hate to see what you think of as truly personal things. To me, a general thing is Fruity versus Cocoa Pebbles. Spending 300k on a house, bringing another living thing into my life, and coping with cancer are pretty damn personal.

[Weedmage Princess]

Perhaps my wording was off.

By that, Blazing, I meant that in those situations, the advice of someone who doesn't know you at all but has experience with those things could still be very helpful.

Nakiro's situation however, he'd be better served getting advice from people who know him and his girlfriend, not people who know nothing about him. But that's just my opinion. Different strokes for different folks.

[Blazing247]

I know I was just playin witcha. :wedgie:

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by Weedmage Princess
Are you just asking this question here because you want to put it out there or because what people here who (I'm going to assume) don't know you OR your girlfriend from Adam might have some sort of effect on what you will decide to do?


I'm really just looking for people who have personal experiences to share. I am already pretty sure on my decision.

[Jazuela]

I'm relieved to hear that Nakiro. As Weedie has mentioned, no one really knows anyone here. We're just anonymous databits on the internet, ya know?

Since you just want some general input, here's mine:

I graduated High School in 1979. Class of maybe around 200, if that. I knew around 100 of them (though I obviously didn't hang out with 100 of them..)

Out of the ones I knew, more than half the females graduated pregnant, or dropped out to have their babies. Out of the males, a significant majority ended up either in jail, dead, or otherwise non-contributing to society.

The ones who went on to college did pretty well, for the most part. Either they finished and got jobs, or finished and married well and didn't get jobs. None of them married while in college.

College is a huge transition period. You're not truly on your own, but you're no longer a kid whose parents are responsible for you. The turmoil that puts you through, you might not even be aware of. But it's there, nonetheless.

You learn this after the fact, when you are really on your own, where your biggest worry is no longer what kind of grade you'll get on your final exam or whether your portfolio of internships is enough to land you a cushy job.

I went through college, graduated with honors, didn't do much of anything with the degree other than put it in a frame and forget where I put the frame <chuckle>

I continued my education, for its own sake. Never stopped learning - it's a hobby I guess. I went through my youth - from start to finish, and don't regret a thing that I did with it. I think if I had married young, I -would- have regretted that.

Whoever said "You're only young once" wasn't kidding. Enjoy it while you can, because it ends much sooner than you'd expect.

If that means spending it with your life-mate, then spend it with your life-mate. If it means taking a break and going nuts for a few years, then do that.

Just remember - if you and this woman are -supposed- to be together, you will...and a few years won't change that. Neither will a few months. Time is irrelevent if it's the real thing.

[Blazing247]

<Just remember - if you and this woman are -supposed- to be together, you will...>

I wonder if people truly believe that when they say it. I can tell you now that there are many things you can do that will make it difficult and/or impossible to be with the one you're "supposed" to be with. I learned that the hard way. The whole, if it's meant to be, it'll be, thing? Bullshit. I didn't grab my chance by the balls and now I'll regret it for the rest of my life.

[Jazuela]

Then you weren't supposed to end up with her. And yes, I really do think it's that simple. After 13 years of marriage to the guy I've been with for a total of 16 years, this "truism" isn't something that just dawned on me yesterday. We've had our ups and downs - questioned the nature of our relationship, questioned our goals...and for some reason - we still end up loving each other and staying together, and very VERY rarely have anything worth arguing about.

Sometimes I wonder why I fell in love with him in the first place. He's kinda ordinary - he's a bowler, for crying out loud! He's from a Roman Catholic family, he's italian - he's everything I'm not.

And yet...here I am, sitting at home like some odd creature that I never thought I'd see, let alone become, waiting for him to come home from his bowling night so I can give him a kiss and crawl under the covers beside him and drift off to sleep.

How do *I* explain that? The answer is simple: It's how it is supposed to be. That answer makes life a lot easier to live. No excuses, no justifications, no pondering the imponderable. It's just how it is, and it is a very satisfying feeling.

[LadyLuck]

My first marriage was to someone a couple years older, I was a junior in college, he was out working full-time. It was someone I had known since high school, even went to his senior ball with him. We lived together prior to getting married. We seperated within 6 months of marrying, tried to work it out with couseling, got back together, seperated again and I filed for divorce 18 months after we initially married. Yet I *knew* he was the one I wanted to marry. And no, he wasn't abusive or anything like that. We even ended on good terms.

My second marriage, which I'm in now (and thankfully waited to have kids in) is much better. I met him online a few years back, it was a quick romantic wooing, my biological clock started ticking, and we got married, two months later I was pregnant. We didn't live together beforehand. I'm in a very good place now compared to my first marriage. Granted, I'm not always a happy wife, but I'm a happy mom, and he's a good dad. Damn that biological clock that kicked in at 30 ;)

To each his or her own. Everyone has such a different slew of opinions because of our own experiences, our upbrining, morals, etc.

Because of my own personal experiences and degrees in the fields I studied, and being in my early 30s now and reflecting on all the high school sweethearts who wed, those who waited, etc. etc. I can only say that so much changes in life, and within one, in their early 20s till about 25-27. Think of how different you are now than when you were 16, 17, even 18.

Something happens when you reach that "real world mentality" age where you realize childbearing is "supposed" to be coming up, careers and such are supposed to be in place, and so on.... especially if you are in college and to be graduating yet. Someone else also mentioned the life changes that occur in the early 20s.

As far as having to live with someone before marriage, bah. I was pleasantly surprised at all the quirks I discovered in my husband. Yes, disappointed with many, but you learn to work with them. Yeah, he snores like a wailing banshee, but that's ok, if he falls asleep first, I sleep in my office on the bed or on the couch... which is about every night. Big deal.

In regards to all those who commented about the sex thing... If one is looking to just get laid, one wouldn't be mature enough to be thinking of marriage. I strongly believe that you do not have to have sex with someone before marrying them. Granted, it never applied to me, but of the slew of married couples I know, those who did wait ... ironically, they are the ones in the most stable marriages to this day.

And, remember, statistically... those who do NOT live together before marriage are more likely to remain married and not get divorced. It is the younger, lived together first, had sex first couples that have much higher statistics of divorce... trippled if they come from divorced parents themselves.

So, my input is wait. If it's meant to be, waiting will just make it better in the long run, why rush a good thing? Wait until you are both graduated and established in careers. That is when you will be ready to support her (if you plan on having kids, with her leave and all, etc.), and so much more. Pregnancies happen, accidently, every day, even with birth control. Do you REALLY want to support a child now, does she? Or, would you rather wait until school is behind you and you're out there ready to be a man, husband, and father? To many males in our society do not have the ability to become their full self ... a man who is also ready to be a husband and a father. Likewise, too many females don't have the self control to wait to become women, and a wife and a mother. If you aren't ready to be a father yet and drop your life and ambitions for a baby, wait. Nothing bad will come from waiting... the bad comes from jumping the gun and not waiting it out.

My 20 cents.

[Blazing247]

<Then you weren't supposed to end up with her. And yes, I really do think it's that simple. After 13 years of marriage to the guy I've been with for a total of 16 years, this "truism" isn't something that just dawned on me yesterday. We've had our ups and downs - questioned the nature of our relationship, questioned our goals...and for some reason - we still end up loving each other and staying together, and very VERY rarely have anything worth arguing about. >

I'm not talking about sticking it out through the ups and downs. I'm talking about unavoidable life events that tear you apart from someone else. Or are you saying that through some mysterious cosmic bond, if a person is meant to be with you they will find a way to stay with you no matter what? Cause if so, that's just romanticism at the best.

[LadyLuck]

Originally posted by Blazing247
<Just remember - if you and this woman are -supposed- to be together, you will...>

I wonder if people truly believe that when they say it. I can tell you now that there are many things you can do that will make it difficult and/or impossible to be with the one you're "supposed" to be with. I learned that the hard way. The whole, if it's meant to be, it'll be, thing? Bullshit. I didn't grab my chance by the balls and now I'll regret it for the rest of my life.

There was a chance I didn't grab by the "balls" either. His name is Pete. He still haunts me to this day, and I still have dreams of him, even though I haven't seen him in 10 years. But HOW DO YOU REALLY know if that was what was supposed to be? Obviously, if it was, it would have happened. If it had been meant to be, I would have taken that when I had the chance. I still dream of the day for him to walk back into my life and sweep me off my feet again... and honestly, I have no doubt that he will, some day. But two marriages and a child later, I can say that what is supposed to be is what you make it to be, and what's supposed to be ends up. And perhaps it's in my stars for Pete to show up when I'm widowed, divorced, or on my death bed at age 80... or perhaps it's not. At this point, there's another lad I'd rather have show up when/if I'm divorced/widowed, etc. :) Life changes. People change. If you always think of the what if's, then you live with regrets, and you can't possibly see your full potential of whom you are now and what you are capable of.

I've lived a life not worth bragging of. Hell, I started drugs when I was 12, and that was when I first saw someone shoot heroine - between his toes to not leave track marks. However, if I were to regret where I'd been, what I've done, the decisions *I CHOSE* to make, I'd have to regret who I am today. And I do not regret who I am today. I'm pretty damn proud of where I am and what I've accomplished in life. To live in regrets of should have grabbed it by the balls is a sad place to be.

What is supposed to be comes with sound judgement of mind and heart, with a bit of soul to tie them together. If you didn't grab your chance by the balls... perhaps, it wasn't meant to be? Perhaps you'll have better things to come with or without the always wondering? Perhaps you shouldn't underestimate the power you have of your own destiny, and the power you have to know your wants and needs, and the power you have in your mind to make the proper decisions to seek them.

[Marl]

Quick way to find out if you should or not, would you give up ANYTHING for her, die for her, do anything to be with her? Can she say the same about you? If she came up one day and said "I want you to give up your games" would you do it without a second thought? would she? Because believe me you will have to make some severe sacrifices, especially when children come along. I know if I asked myself these questions I quite possibly would be a single man right now. But, it is still not that bad, just life...

[Latrinsorm]

To add to my previous recommendation to ignore statistics, Nakiro, ignore anything that has to do with fate, or "supposed to be", or "life-mates", or "Flintstones' chewable vitamins".

Do it, and then Do it.

- Stanley.

[Skeeter]

Run while you have the chance. already missed out on half of the most fun of college. Random drunk chicks in your dorm. Stupid to be committed in college. Enjoy your last few years of freedom, before life beats you down. Everyone's always in such a damn hurry to limit their fun.

[Xcalibur]

Be cautious of women between 18-25... Some of those that haven't lived their teenage trips fully will eventually explode and want freedom.

Best of both world, man, is to fiance her and not setting a date for marriage YET.

:)

[SpunGirl]

I wish I could be an expert on the entire world like Jazuela/Bestatte.

-K

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by Blazing247
<Just remember - if you and this woman are -supposed- to be together, you will...>

I wonder if people truly believe that when they say it. I can tell you now that there are many things you can do that will make it difficult and/or impossible to be with the one you're "supposed" to be with. I learned that the hard way. The whole, if it's meant to be, it'll be, thing? Bullshit. I didn't grab my chance by the balls and now I'll regret it for the rest of my life.

I don't believe in the "meant to be together" idea myself.

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by Marluxian
Quick way to find out if you should or not, would you give up ANYTHING for her, die for her, do anything to be with her? Can she say the same about you? If she came up one day and said "I want you to give up your games" would you do it without a second thought? would she? Because believe me you will have to make some severe sacrifices, especially when children come along. I know if I asked myself these questions I quite possibly would be a single man right now. But, it is still not that bad, just life...

Good question.

I don't think I could do almost anything without a second thought, but I do believe I am capable of changing myself for the betterment of our relationship.

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by Skeeter
Run while you have the chance. already missed out on half of the most fun of college. Random drunk chicks in your dorm. Stupid to be committed in college. Enjoy your last few years of freedom, before life beats you down. Everyone's always in such a damn hurry to limit their fun.

Those type of things do not bring me enjoyment. I generally feel pitty for drunk people, moreso for girls that are taken advantage of in their enumerated state.

[AnticorRifling]

Just take my words to heart and you'll be fine.

[Xcalibur]

Answering by personnal experience won't help him, as it depends TOTALY on the 2 persons in questions.

Is Nakiro a sexual addicted man? A gambler? A fine worker? And his girlfriend?

What about their personalities all in all?

Time is your friend, man, and if you feel ANY pressure into marrying her, then it's NOT the good thing to do.

Also, be sure that all your teen's trips are over, otherwise you'll regreat it, as much as somes seem to regreat it now, here.

And finaly, the passion is like everything else, it needs to be worked on everyday:master:

[LadyLuck]

Originally posted by Marluxian
Quick way to find out if you should or not, would you give up ANYTHING for her, die for her, do anything to be with her? Can she say the same about you? If she came up one day and said "I want you to give up your games" would you do it without a second thought? would she? Because believe me you will have to make some severe sacrifices, especially when children come along. I know if I asked myself these questions I quite possibly would be a single man right now. But, it is still not that bad, just life...

I... love you, T. Further words wouldn't do you honor here, you are surpassed what I could do with words, without making you blush... nor biting me honor.

Your.... C... always.

[Myshel]

The getting married part is easy, its the staying married part that is difficult. I don't care how much in love you are now there will be times you will hate the person your married too. Weathering those times are the test that is hard in these times, when divorce is so easy to obtain. Commitment not just to each other but to the relationship. The relationship is the third party in a marriage, that relationship includes children, home, families. It makes it easier if both of you share the same values and can commit to the larger picture of that relationship (especially after children come along). Its not easy. If you want a picture then look at your parents relationship and HER parents relationship, blend them because that is the learned behavior that you will have to overcome or emulate. After 25 years of marriage, my husband and I not the people we were when we married, our relationship has evolved as we have. Is it perfect? Nothing ever is, but we committed to the bigger picture, not to individual
needs.