Snipidy Snipe

[Bluke]

Hey guys,

Wondering if I could get a bit of advice on creating an archer. I've never played a ranger or rogue before and so I'm not sure which profession would make the best sniper. Would I have more success training in 3x hiding and having some of the rogue-only cmans such as divert and vanish, or is a ranger the better choice considering their spells. To be honest I could care less about skinning and picking locks so that doesn't matter. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Astray]

It really goes back and forth on what class makes the 'best' sniper. Think of the type of character you want to play and then choose your class.

[Versin]

Agreed, they are both good snipers so choose one to fit your character. If you do not care about picking maybe choose Ranger for the spells, since a nice aspect of rogue snipers is their ability to easily add lockpicking.

[radeek]

Rogues also get some pretty nice CMAN's for use with hiding (and they can triple in hiding) and a lot of other pretty neat CMAN's. Plus, they get the use of a working guild with skills as well. While they don't get the use of spells without substantial cost I feel that they make excellent snipers. If you choose not to pick and still go rogue the sky's the limit to what you can do for a secondary attack form. That is not to say rangers aren't a good choice as well. It all depends more on personal preference and how you want to play your character. I myself converted to a sniper as soon as ranged came out, then went open archer, then went back to sniping, post cap, as a ranger.

[Palcron]

Stunman and vanish have saved my ass dozens of times. Knocked down and RT locked? Vanish, wait out RT, stunman stealth stand, grab arrow, kill. Knocked down and stunned? Stunman stand, stunman move west. Plus, lacking spells will get you pretty kick ass redux, and if you train up to full plate, you'll be a mini-warrior in terms of survivability.

I've never played a ranger, so I can't comment there, but I'm sure they fare well with their arsenal of spells.

[BriarFox]

I'd go rogue if you want to snipe. You can check out my guide for info on archery if you haven't seen it and need some: http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?49785-quot-The-Art-of-the-Bow-quot-GSIV-Archery-Guide

[radeek]

There was also a CMAN, Combat Mobility maybe (too tired to actually look it up)? It stood you up if you weren't when you were attacked. It is awesome for Crossbow users who kneel to fire. I loved it.

[Androidpk]

Combat mobility is a huge life saver. Sad that semis don't have access to it.

[Jhynnifer]

Vanish is also a huge life saver, especially if you're not 3x hiding and 3x dodge (which you may not be for a while).
Also access to 425/430 as a rogue is really great.

I kind of like the versatility of rogue sniping, but the ranger spellcircle has some ridiculously OP things that make my pants sad when I see them in action (as a rogue).

[Candor]

Vanish is also a huge life saver, especially if you're not 3x hiding and 3x dodge

Vanish is a huge asset even with 3x hiding/dodge.

[radeek]

Spells coupled with lores for Rangers make them excellent snipers. I'd have a very hard time deciding which is more effective, rangers or rogues. Each has their niche but really aren't locked into them, if that makes any sense. I enjoy playing both.

[Androidpk]

Stealth wise a rogue wins due to the inherent class bonus to hiding.

[Roblar]

I thought that bonus was only to indoor rooms and rangers got a bonus to outdoor rooms?

[Androidpk]

Beyond the points being made by the warriors in the previous posts, one critical point that is being overlooked is that at equal S&H (http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Stalking_and_Hiding) skill, a Warrior is nowhere near as effective at hiding as a Rogue due to a massive profession bonus Rogues receive. Even if the Rogue does not avail himself of Shadow Mastery or Armored Stealth, a 2x S&H Warrior at 100th level trying to hide in front of a creature is significantly worse off than the 1x Rogue.
Warden

[Androidpk]

There are also the individual bonuses/penalties applied to your race.

[Roblar]

Beyond the points being made by the warriors in the previous posts, one critical point that is being overlooked is that at equal S&H (http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Stalking_and_Hiding) skill, a Warrior is nowhere near as effective at hiding as a Rogue due to a massive profession bonus Rogues receive. Even if the Rogue does not avail himself of Shadow Mastery or Armored Stealth, a 2x S&H Warrior at 100th level trying to hide in front of a creature is significantly worse off than the 1x Rogue.
Warden

Yes I understand they have a profession bonus, but that is warrior vs rogue. I thought we're comparing rogues vs rangers.

Don't rangers also get a profession bonus when hiding out in the wilds (outdoors)?

[Androidpk]

Yes he uses warrior as an example but I only posted it to point out the huge bonus that rogues get. Unsure about rangers. I don't believe I've seen anything in regards to them having an innate bonus to hiding.

[BriarFox]

A 2x ranger with shadow mastery, sneaking, and lores will still not be as good at hiding as a 3x rogue with shadow mastery, and Vanish is a huge game-changer. Rogues are just flat out better at hiding, and have more tricks for it, than rangers do. They also get more of a profession bonus. If you want to hide and snipe, it's best to be a rogue. That said, sniping is also slower than open archery, and given the differences, it's just not worth a ranger's time to snipe. That doesn't mean sniping doesn't work for a ranger, just that it's not optimal. If you are going to snipe as a ranger, though, use 608 and your animal companion's GUARD command to optimize things.

[m444w]

I thought that bonus was only to indoor rooms and rangers got a bonus to outdoor rooms?
That is race dependent. Certain environment types are better suited for certain races. I think there is something on krakii about it

(I suppose it may be profession dependent to some unknown degree but a 3x rogue will always be better at stealth than a ranger, maybe just less better outdoors)

I think the one way rangers have an advantage is the ability to "trap" a room, be it tangleweed, breeze (with the slow effect) or their companion and camouflage.

Sniping is not always slower... that depends on your bow type.

[Bluke]

Hey guys, I appreciate all of the advice. Huge help. Thanks