Treasure System (Hunting Pressure)

[Haldrik]

Heyo,

Quick questions.

I'm pretty familiar with the treasure system and hunting pressure. But, I'm not too familiar with:

1) Range of levels to determine pressure in band of creatures. e.g., overhunt level 10 X, gives more treasure to level 10 Y, but what about level 15 Z?

2) Area boundaries for determining band of creatures to distribute pressure.

Any ideas?


Thanks!!

[JackWhisper]

1) That made no sense to me, but it IS 4:30AM. Example?

2) Boundaries are set by region, and separate regions are given separate loot pressure. Also, hunting pressure is only per critter. Crystal Golems and Cave Trolls are in the same area, but they have different hunting pressures for that region because they are different creatures. You can use the LOCATION verb to figure out your boundaries.

[JackWhisper]

Oh. You're asking if hunting level 10 ogres gives better loot to the level 10 trolls in the same area, but what about the level 15 zombies next to them?

No. Each critter has different pressure. There's a few in-depth posts about it by some hardcore hunters here on the PC who crunched the numbers, but that's the end result of it.

[Methais]

As far as I know, uphunting doesn't increase treasure, but I'm pretty sure hunting stuff you don't gain exp from nerfs the shit out of it.

[Buckwheet]

As far as I know, uphunting doesn't increase treasure, but I'm pretty sure hunting stuff you don't gain exp from nerfs the shit out of it.

Hunting in a group increases treasure.

[Methais]

Hunting in a group increases treasure.

I always wondered how much a big MA group pulls in from an average hunt compared to a solo hunter.

[Buckwheet]

I always wondered how much a big MA group pulls in from an average hunt compared to a solo hunter.

Depends on the area. I noticed significant changes in mid level hunting grounds vs OTF being grouped.

[Methais]

Depends on the area. I noticed significant changes in mid level hunting grounds vs OTF being grouped.

So in OTF you get green garnets instead of brown zircons then?

[Buckwheet]

So in OTF you get green garnets instead of brown zircons then?

Well it was better than that at the time because I didn't MA with Sabreon around. So when I MAed it was like the Sabreon effect and we did get green sapphires instead of clear zircons.

[Silvean]

As far as I know, uphunting doesn't increase treasure, but I'm pretty sure hunting stuff you don't gain exp from nerfs the shit out of it.

I was under the impression that uphunting increased treasure. Warden in 2008 writes, "Uphunting by 5+ levels will increase the treasure rating, resulting in a better chance for special goodies and improving the odds for regular loot. The greater the uphunting, the greater the treasure rating modifier." This is from the saved Creature loot and experience changes (http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Creature_loot_and_experience_changes_(saved_post)) post.

I was in the habit of leaving Nelemar boxes on the ground, especially during Lumnis, because fuck them. But, just to check, I kept careful track of everything in 80 boxes and came up with a lot of nothing. I'm pretty sure I've come up with less than 5 enhancives and no interesting enhancives after some 1.5 - 2 million xp of hunting Nelemar. I wrote a recent matter-of-fact post about this on the Officials: here (http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Game%20Design%20Discussions/Treasure%20System/thread/1658842).

[Methais]

I was under the impression that uphunting increased treasure. Warden in 2008 writes, "Uphunting by 5+ levels will increase the treasure rating, resulting in a better chance for special goodies and improving the odds for regular loot. The greater the uphunting, the greater the treasure rating modifier." This is from the saved Creature loot and experience changes (http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Creature_loot_and_experience_changes_(saved_post)) post.

I was in the habit of leaving Nelemar boxes on the ground, especially during Lumnis, because fuck them. But, just to check, I kept careful track of everything in 80 boxes and came up with a lot of nothing. I'm pretty sure I've come up with less than 5 enhancives and no interesting enhancives after some 1.5 - 2 million xp of hunting Nelemar. I wrote a recent matter-of-fact post about this on the Officials: here (http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Game%20Design%20Discussions/Treasure%20System/thread/1658842).

If that is the case, then I must have really shitty luck, because Scatter loot isn't really any better than plane 4, and sentry loot in Nelemar isn't anything spectacular either most of the time.

[Fallen]

You can literally be in the middle of a hunt when the "pressure" system resets. It happened to me all the time in OTF. A good indicator is the weight of boxes and of course gem drops. Don't just assume an area is always crap. It will reset, I just have no idea of when/how it does.

[Jeril]

You can literally be in the middle of a hunt when the "pressure" system resets. It happened to me all the time in OTF. A good indicator is the weight of boxes and of course gem drops. Don't just assume an area is always crap. It will reset, I just have no idea of when/how it does.

Area resets are in the morning, I want to say around 6 AM eastern or so. There are also the times when the game crashes and the whole loot system gets reset. I seem to have horrible luck finding enhancives for the most part while other people have had great luck, just timing and a bunch of other random things. Hunting in a group does give you better treasure and so does over hunting up to +10, anything above that isn't giving you any more of a bonus. Both the bonuses from group hunting and over hunting stack, there is also a cap to the group bonus after so many members, no real idea what it is though.

There are a bunch of factors that go into determining the loot pressure on a given creature. I've never really worried about it because I tend to be more interested in gaining experience then I am in gaining loot.

[Haldrik]

I was using this post...

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Mechanics_(saved_post)

It talks about how "wealth" moves from a kobold with a -3 modifier, to the ghosts next to them. So unless its just a natural extension of people overhunting kobolds and not hunting ghosts? But I sort of took it as the kobold -3 modified was placed on the ghosts (via +3 treasure) in the same area.

And this,



Category: Hunting and Combat
Topic: Pinefar Hunting Areas
Message #: 1572
Author: GS4-OSCURO
Date: 10/25/2009 6:20:37 PM
Subject: Re: Lich Loot

>>I'm actually somewhat surprised if the treasure system works like that. I would have guessed that treasure was set up in a common pool for all critters of like level, and averaged over all those critters with regard to baseline and hunting pressure. Therefore a pool with only a solitary creature should never have reduced (or greater) treasure than baseline, since the pool wouldn't vary.

This is exactly how it works.

[Jeril]

Those are mostly old posts and the treasure system was updated when they released enhancives into the treasure system. There used to be no hunting pressure, there were no bonuses for up hunting or group hunting, and there was no penalty for under hunting. Some creatures are 'rich', 'poor', or just 'average', and pressure or lack there of can increase or decrease that even more. Pressure is applied against the creatures themselves and against creatures within the level ranges, whatever they happen to be. We don't know the degree to which each applies though.

[Jace Solo]

No. Each critter has different pressure. There's a few in-depth posts about it by some hardcore hunters here on the PC who crunched the numbers, but that's the end result of it.

Have this link?

[Haldrik]

Pressure is applied against the creatures themselves and against creatures within the level ranges, whatever they happen to be. We don't know the degree to which each applies though.

This is the part that I'm curious about. So,


Arch wights are underhunted?
170 21 - "an Arachne servant"
2875 20 - "an arch wight" Undead
526 18 - "a storm giant"
953 20 - "a frost giant"
1102 20 - "a steel golem"

Does the arch wight apply pressure to anyone else? Or does it just have negative pressure to itself because its overhunted compared to others? And does storm giant have better loot because he is hunted less compared to everyone else or does he receive positive pressure because the arch wight is overhunted.

I'm leaning towards the first because if I killed enough arch wights to crash the pressure, I could then simply move on to storm giants and benefit from the increase I caused myself, thus possibly making the system worthless.

Instead I'm thinking, one could theoretically bring the value of all 5 of the creatures on the list if they were all overhunted. If you consider the system as "individual pressure."

[Candor]

Any thoughts as to what areas are underhunted for a capped character? OTF definitely doesn't qualify, although I do get lucky there once in awhile (mostly special weapons carried by the Ithzir).

[Silvean]

Nelemar is famously broke. Like Jeril, I'm more interested in experience. I wish they would come up with a creative solution to the capped treasure problem.

[Ceyrin]

Group hunting definitely increases the treasure load you can find, even underhunting at cap in certain areas will do it. If you pile enough of a group together and let everyone get some plinks in you can get good treasure anywhere at any level (assuming the creatures drop treasure and their pressure isn't 'maxed').

Even as a solo hunter, I always managed to get a decent amount of treasure in The Rift, but I think it's the least hunted of all the capped areas. I don't know if it's brag-worthy or not, but generally 150-200k/hr with 50 trading ranks and a +18 charisma bonus in Icemule as a Giant.

Of course, it doesn't hurt when you get to apply your trading bonus to the coins in your boxes too.

[Fallen]

Any thoughts as to what areas are underhunted for a capped character? OTF definitely doesn't qualify, although I do get lucky there once in awhile (mostly special weapons carried by the Ithzir).

The Scatter is likely your best bet for good treasure at cap.