Behold, the bringer of light.

[Red Devil]

taken from http://forum.wierdpier.com/viewtopic.php?t=1793

America likes to keep alot of information away from the rest of the world, and especially, their own people. Truth is; we are not the number one super power. Not for long anyway. The European Union is quickly
consolidating military might, and is developing a very anti- U.S. sentiment, wich they displayed with their non involvement in the last U.S. thug- action in the Middle East. But they are not even a threat compared to China. One of the oldest and largest empires in the world; china ruled the earth for over a thousand years, until they were drown in the wake of western technology. Then it was Colonial Brittains turn to rule.

For hundreds of years they ruled an empire where the sun never set. After ww1 it was Americas turn to become the great superpower and ww11 set the stage for the birthof our dominion over the rest of the world. Hence; the twentieth century was dubbed " The American century".

China has recently called for a New world Order, one that it would presumably preside over. They have been implementing this program since the early 1990's. What the nature of a Chinese global peace would be, remains to be seen, but there are some sure signs that the Chinese are hard at labour to make it a reality.

The Chinese have put big bucks into what is termed " leapfrog military technologies" The Chinese have long had an enourmous nuclear arsenal mounted on the worlds most powerful intercontinental ballistic missile (i.c.b.m). and they are packaged with sophisticated MIRV 'ed warheads (mirv: multiple independently targeted re-entry vehicle - a device that allows multiple warheads to emerge from a single warhead and target different cities) ( we don't have these) Luckily, the Chinese count on this as a deterrent, a way of keeping U.S. nuclear forces at bay.

The chinese know that the U.S's ability to operate overseas is totally dependant on just 12 aircraft carriers. ( the Kitty hawk, Constellation, Enterprise, John. F . Kennedy, Nimitz, Dwight .D. Eisenhower, Carl Vinson, Theodore Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, George washington, John. C. Stennis, Harry. S. Truman, and the still unfinished Ronald Reagan.

China's clincher is a missile designed to destroy every single one of these floating flight decks. China's ship obliterating missile, code named ; SS-N-22 or " The Sunburn". is impossible to detect and destroy, and, carries a nuclear warhead 10 times more destructive than the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. China has 20 of them. That is More than enough to take out our Navy. They also have cruise missiles with an astonishing 1,500 mile range. They not only have our technology through reverse engineering, but they have better technology.

Check this out: by skimming the water and using violent end maneuvers to throw off defenses, Sunburn missiles have the capacity to put the U.S. military totally out of business in the Western Pacific. At it's current detection capability, the U.S. navy would have only 2.5 seconds to plot a response.

Impossible.

In other words, as of 2001, China was capable of turning any U.S. soldiers in Japan , The Philipines, Korea, or Taiwan into a smoking pile of blistered meat. Chinese leaders are not the least bit afraid of the Nuclear conflict that would follow. They have leaked the word (through an unamed source close to china's military) Americans can't tolerate death, and our philosophy is: we are willing to sustain major losses of our armed forces to defend just one square inch of land. They can afford to. They out number us by 7 to 1. All through the 1990's, China has slowly and patiently intensified it's demands that Taiwan be returned to their control.

China has also declared sovereignty over virtually everything in the south china sea, an area that 6 other countries call their own. The Chinese have bragged that they have " All conquering capability." With the Sunburn missile, they now have the magic bullet to do what they want.

But that is not the Chinese way: They are likely to advance on their prey with the same methodical patience they displayed in swallowing Hong Kong back in 97' and Macau in 99'.

Weaponry is just one sign that china is increasing it's potential for world domination. China is also eating the U.S. and Japan up economically. China's economy is already the second largest in the world, and is quickly growing. While the U.S. ran a trade defecit exceeding $360 billion in the year 2000 alone, China POCKETED an annual $84 billion from the U.S, and $25 billion from Japan. In other words; China has become an economic vacuum cleaner, emptying the wallets of the U.S. and it's allies. Almost everything we buy is made in china.

[Ravenstorm]

Fascinating. And the credentials of the author of that post are what? Is this 'verm' a military analyst for the government perhaps? Or does he live in a cabin in the woods writing a manifesto?

Raven

[Skirmisher]

:yawn:

[Tendarian]

I think its great how trendy it is to be anti american now a days specially from people who enjoy this coutries freedom and wealth. I have more respect for the people who dislike us who dont live here than the ones who just spout off anti american gibberish and continue living here leeching off what they supposedly hate so much.

[Skirmisher]

Please grow up Dar dar.

Your prattling is becoming overly tiresome.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Tendarian
I think its great how trendy it is to be anti american now a days specially from people who enjoy this coutries freedom and wealth. I have more respect for the people who dislike us who dont live here than the ones who just spout off anti american gibberish and continue living here leeching off what they supposedly hate so much.

Could you be more specific? What do you categorize as "hate" and "anti" American?

The comment is too vague.

[Tendarian]

Hate as in all they do and say is america sucks and other suck gibberish. Im not talking politics here,if you dislike our current president or his actions that is fine and you have as much right to complain about him as any other.

Wow.

[AnticorRifling]

For a second I thought Red Devil wrote that and I about passed out. Then I pulled it together and realized it was a cross post. Red you are so close to posting something informative of your own it's scary. I'm afraid when that happens seven seals will be broken, etc.

Interesting read none the less.

[Ilvane]

It's not that it's trendy to be un-American. Haven't you seen the way the country has been acting and the way we are perceived?

We went into a war with no help, against UN suggestion. We could have waited a bit longer, and got UN approval and backing. The administration chose not to.

It's like when you have a bully on the playground who gets beat up by a bunch of kids, then a new bully steps up to be the bigger bully.:grin:

Anyway, it doesn't surprise me that China would try and build themselves up.

-A

Edited because I went on a bit too much.;)

[Edited on 9-6-2003 by Ilvane]

[Artha]

Of course it's trendy to be anti-american. Stores like hot topic (owned by Gap, hahaha) cater to that type. Cripes, almost my entire high school is anti-american. And, of course, most are also uninformed, or only listen to rags like Yellow Times.

[peam]

Ignorant doomsday conspiracy theorist. Like Raven said, probably some crackpot living in the woods, most likely a Vietnam vet who knows because HE WAS THERE, MAN.

If any of these Chinese military specs are unclassified and well established, which I doubt they are, you can be well assured the United States has counter measures in place.

Stupid commies.

[Edited on 9-6-2003 by peam]

[Jack]

The person writing this seems to be rather confused about the Chinese Military, and their technology. Since a large part of my job revolves around such things, I thought I'd shed a bit of light. All of the information I am about to post comes from Unclassified Sources. None of the information I am posting is related in any way to the United States Military, or Intellegence agencies. That said, it is all very accurate.....

First of all, China has developed one ICBM capable of striking US territory. The Dong Feng 5, or by western designation, CSS-4. This missile was developed in 1981, and has a range of 13,000 miles. China has approximately 20 of these missiles.

They are currently developing the Dong Feng 31, and 41 with a range of 8000, and 12,000 miles respectively. Neither are operational at this time.

My source for the information regarding Chinese ICBMs is http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/ . This website has up to date information regarding much of the world's military technology, and can be a very interesting read.

Now, let's take a look at China's Navy, and it's capabilities as listed in this post. Speciffically, the SSN-22 Sunburn missile. First of all, the SSN-22 was designed by the Soviet Union for use on board the Sovremennyy class of destroyers. Eight missiles are on board each of these destroyers, and four are carried aboard each Tarantul Class patrol ship. This missile was not developed by China.

The SSN-22 Sunburn is not a nuclear weapon, it is a conventional anti-ship missile. It flies at Mach 3 at it's highest altitude, and Mach 2.2 at low altitued. That is three times the speed of it's US counterpart, the Harpoon anti-ship missile. This gives a lot less time for the crew of the targetted ship to respond. This is not to say it cannot be defended against, but it is considerably more difficult to do so.

Source for SSN-22 infromation: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/moskit.htm

The Chinese purchased two Sovermenyy class destroyers from Russia. So they do ineed have the capability to launch SSN-22 Sunburn missiles. Good luck getting one of those destroyers within range of a US carrier battle group. Whoever wrote this, should actually research their writings. The information is out there.

-Jack

Edited for a major typo I spotted just after posting.

[Edited on 9-6-2003 by Jack]

[Artha]

Author = pwned.

[longshot]

Originally posted by Red Devil
taken from http://forum.wierdpier.com/viewtopic.php?t=1793


But that is not the Chinese way: They are likely to advance on their prey with the same methodical patience they displayed in swallowing Hong Kong back in 97' and Macau in 99'.



Um... the deal Britain had with the Chinese stated that in 1997 they would give back Hong Kong.

I hardly call this "methodical patience".

I know on TV they show pictures of Shanghai, and how it's all Westernized and whatnot...

but China is the dirtiest fucking country in the world! It makes Mexico look like a Ritz Carlton Hotel. The Western provinces are straight out of the stone ages.

Not to mention you have Islamic Chinese... the Uighurs I think they are called?

Also, Jack was right. You think that the carriers just kinda float in the water by themselves? The battle group would tear up anything.



[Edited on 9-7-2003 by longshot]

[SpunGirl]

If you don't like America, feel free to move to some third world shithole where you will be thrown in jail for looking at a police officer cross-eyed and kept there with the cockroaches for the rest of your natural life.

We won't miss you. Really.

-K

[Skirmisher]

Its so funny to see people quote such innane articles like that.:lol:


Sure China has like 300 bajillion soldiers, and lots of tanks and rockets and thats all well and good in a localized conflict, but at the moment there is only one power in the world that can truly project force and that is the US.

There is only one country with a substantial navy and air force and thats the US, without both of those, one just cannot push your conventional forces very far from your own borders.

I wouldn't want to try to go projecting much actually into China, but don't ask china to project much of anything far outside its own territory anytime soon.

[longshot]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
If you don't like America, feel free to move to some third world shithole where you will be thrown in jail for looking at a police officer cross-eyed and kept there with the cockroaches for the rest of your natural life.

We won't miss you. Really.

-K

Where did I say that I don't like America?

Are you talking out of your ass AGAIN?

[i remember halloween]

ever hear of a trident sub? there is your answer to anything china or the eu thinks it can do.

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by longshot

Originally posted by SpunGirl
If you don't like America, feel free to move to some third world shithole where you will be thrown in jail for looking at a police officer cross-eyed and kept there with the cockroaches for the rest of your natural life.

We won't miss you. Really.

-K

Where did I say that I don't like America?

Are you talking out of your ass AGAIN?

I wasn't talking to you. You must think people pay more attention to you than they actually do.

-K

[longshot]

Originally posted by SpunGirl

Originally posted by longshot

Originally posted by SpunGirl
If you don't like America, feel free to move to some third world shithole where you will be thrown in jail for looking at a police officer cross-eyed and kept there with the cockroaches for the rest of your natural life.

We won't miss you. Really.

-K

Where did I say that I don't like America?

Are you talking out of your ass AGAIN?

I wasn't talking to you. You must think people pay more attention to you than they actually do.

-K

No...

More like I saw you post right after mine, so I assumed you were talking to me. I don't see how this is unreasonable to think.

Next time, try quoting, or maybe saying the name of the person who you are directing the post too.

I'm sorry for assuming that your post, which was directly after mine with no quote or name, was directed at me.

Can you apologize for being the biggest piece of trash on these boards?

[StrayRogue]

Tanks, bombers, navy; all irrelevant, as America is not the only country to have Nuclear weapons (if it ever came down to it). Yes they have a good anti nuke system, but some of the bombs would touch American soil; such is even stated in their contingency plans. Either way, if Iraq was the peak of American efficiency, I wouldn't be afraid to invade your county. Talk about a ragged dumb fuck invasion. You killed more of our troops than the iraqi's did.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
. Either way, if Iraq was the peak of American efficiency, I wouldn't be afraid to invade your county. Talk about a ragged dumb fuck invasion..

Why would someone who seems to be intelligent make such an assinine statement?

Do you think there would have been even one third the casualties suffered on the part of the US or the UK if they were not so hampered with trying to kill only actual armed combatants and only destroying the bare minimum military targets.

If the sole aim was to go in there and blow the hell out of the country would there have been ANY difficulty? No.

You can attempt to refute that if you wish but you should just save your breath as I doubt you will be able to find a single expert willing to say the US would have had ANY difficulty in knocking Iraq into the stone age if that had been the sole aim.

We are not debating right or wrong or moral justification, but simply military ability and in this there is no real question.

[StrayRogue]

Oh of course not. They didn't need XXX troops to do that. Nor the help of any other country. I still feel the whole operation was terribly shoddy and unplanned. I'd be willing to bet the families of those killed by American bullets think that too.

[Artha]

Invading america and watching america invade are two completely different things. America set up so many defenses during the cold war it's not even funny.

There's an underground tunnel that goes from washington DC to Texas to California. It's completely straight, and makes troop movements possible within a few days, tops. Not to mention our entire road system is set up so that there's a runway to land planes every mile. And we have tons of shotgun packing rednecks and hunters.

[StrayRogue]

Its the rednecks I fear. Especially since I have long hair. *gulps at Easy Rider memories*

[Rysk]

The right to bare arms was made for this reason among others. In other countries, if you invade them, their citizens can do nothing. In America, every other fucking person has a gun that they probably aren't afraid to use if you're invading their country. Someone invades, i'll blow their asses away from my bedroom window :D

[SpunGirl]

THIS IS IN REPLY TO LONGSHOT. JUST SO THERE'S NO CONFUSION.

If I have something to say directly to someone, I use quotes. If I'm voicing a general opinion, I don't. I don't see how that could be hard to understand, so now that I've clarified, I hope this helps you out.

I don't know what the fuck your problem is with me. I don't have the faintest clue who you are or why you feel the need to award me way you did. It seems apparent, however, that you're a little overly defensive and need to calm the fuck down.

I DO apologize if I said anything that truly offended you, it's a message board after all. But try being a little less of a jackass and you might find people respond better.

Or even try, "were you talking to me?" before you go off on people. Sheesh.

-K, wonders who the fuck longshot is but doesn't like him already.

[edge]

<Truth is; we are not the number one super power. Not for long anyway. >

lol. Love how they said we are not number one, then said we are......hahaha



Good laugh

[SpunGirl]

Just a reminder.

I'm still waiting for longshot to explain to me why he called me "the biggest piece of trash on these boards" in this thread and said something so nasty in another thread the post actually got removed.

If you don't like me, fine. Have the balls to at least tell me what I did to offend you and respond when your insults get questioned. I make plenty of remarks towards people but if ANY ONE OF YOU approached me one on one OR in a thread and asked what the basis was, I'd be more than happy to tell you.

It's called being accountable. I'm THISCLOSE to starting a thread about how pissed I am about this.

-K, waiting.

[longshot]

You shit all over my thread about Thailand. You started spouting off on how the Thai government supports child slavery or something. You posted some bogus stats, and when I asked you to back them up, you never bothered to reply.

This led me to believe that you are someone who has very deep feelings for something you know little, if nothing at all about.

An example of this is the Big Lebowski thread... Tara Reid does not suck anyone's dick for $1000. But right away, you start off, "Isn't that the movie where Tara Reid blew some guy for $1000?" and even went on to suggest a better looking actress for said part.

It's happened in a couple of other threads. I don't keep track or anything,... but each time I've said that you really have no basis to say such things, you don't reply.

Sorry about the trash thing. I was wasted. That's my fault.

So, I guess that's my beef.

Like you are upset now... I was too, because you never even bothered to reply after you shit on my thread for no reason... and based on no real facts. Just running your mouth.

[SpunGirl]

Allright. I'm sorry I shit on your thread about Thailand. I have very strong feelings regarding the things their government allows. I'd be glad to start my very own thread about it. Someone on that thread asked me to drop it, and I did.

As far as the Tara Reid thing goes, someone told me that happened in that movie ::shrugs:: I haven't seen it. So I asked. Then I offered my opinion on that particular actress, and offered an opinion on some OTHER actresses. Opinion offering tends to happen on message boards from time to time.

Apology accepted about the trash thing.

FYI, it wouldn't hurt to check your u2u once in awhile. I can't imagine I'm the only one who felt the urge.

-K