Archer rogues?

[Jawa]

Archer rogues vs Rangers. . .

I dont pick. more of a combat rogue. Someone told me archer rogues are awesome but I would think rangers would be the best pick for an archer. Viable path?

[Tgo01]

Spike thorn ranger is the only way to go so I say archer rogue.

[Jawa]

spike thorn ranger? im confused. Sorry, recently returning player so im kind of green

[Tgo01]

Spike thorn ranger, weed Mage, thornie rangerie. A ranger who primarily hunts with spike thorn (616). I was just being facetious though because I play a spike ranger.

Welcome back! Do be sure to download lich, it makes the game 100 times better.

[Stretch]

Depends on level. Archer rogue did much better than sword/board for me from around 65 onward (3x pick/disarm, 2x hide/ambush/percep, 1x CM, 2x armor until 140 ranks).

[Versin]

Both are definitely viable and very similar. Ranger is the better hunter since they get nice buffs, rogue gives you more flexibility to try other things.

[Buckwheet]

Rogue will also have the best AS with ranged and can do it in heavier armor easier.

[GuildRat]

There's way too much to disagree with here....I had a much easier time sword/board than most rogue archers had. However, I will stress, work your redux skills, get MIU and AS up to help with spell burst if you're planning on hunting in burst areas. MBP or up to half plate is your friend. Picking is always going to be a good thing as a rogue. The skill is cheap up to 2x and won't interfere with your combat training too much. Not to mention, you're looking to or have already bought a higher level rogue, so it's not like you're working your way to 100.

[Sorcasaurus]

Both rogues and rangers will have no trouble killing with a bow. It's all the other parts of the character that would change your choice between the two. Do you want to pick boxes or cast spells, do you like pets, what sort of armor were you thinking of wearing are just a few.

Or you could play a totally badass paladin and win gemstone, become better in bed and lose any unwanted belly fat!! (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?91226-10-5-mil-Paladin)

[radeek]

It also matters if you want to be an open archer, or a sniper from the shadows. Ranger for the former, rogue for the latter, normally. My Ranger is a sniper but that was a post cap goal for me. Rogues get far better CMAN's than rangers and those are really really fun, plus they have guild skills available that rangers don't (hint hint). I have a non-picking rogue archer that has amazingly fun secondary skills due to the multitude of TP's available. Each has their own weaknesses and strengths. Basically it all depends on what you want to do. Both are extremely deadly and viable and fun in their own way.

[Whirlin]

It also matters if you want to be an open archer, or a sniper from the shadows. Ranger for the former, rogue for the latter, normally. My Ranger is a sniper but that was a post cap goal for me. Rogues get far better CMAN's than rangers and those are really really fun, plus they have guild skills available that rangers don't (hint hint). I have a non-picking rogue archer that has amazingly fun secondary skills due to the multitude of TP's available. Each has their own weaknesses and strengths. Basically it all depends on what you want to do. Both are extremely deadly and viable and fun in their own way.

I completely disagree with the above.... Well, the first half.

Rangers get natural hiding boosts with 601 and 617. Furthermore, 608's AS boost can remain active if you manage to stay hidden post-firing.

While rogues can 3x S&H versus a ranger's 2x, these points lack synergies with other archer rogue skills. I'm not aware of any archery specific CMAN that rely on hiding, and points spent in S&H do not contribute towards Redux. Furthermore, since rogues do not utilize magic as heavily in the field, they do not tend to stop at brig like rangers do. And if I'm not mistaken, anything above brig is a relatively high penalty to hiding.

Both Rogues and Rangers get aiming buffs via 402/404 and 613... so that nets out.

Rogues can much more easily go 2x ambush, and 3x perception. While the 3rd rank of perception won't assist with AS, it will factor into DS (not substantially), aiming, and SMR defense. Rogues can also unlock 425, so their ranged AS cannot be matched by any class (as Buckwheet said).

Rangers with their spells become more dynamic hunters. While rogues have their guild CMANs, rangers get two spell circles worth of things to play with.

Long-Term Post-Cap, Semis always take the cake, being able to work on 2x ambush and 2x spells, whereas a rogue will end up working on more dodge, redux, and/or spells.

[GuildRat]

I completely disagree with the above.... Well, the first half.

Rangers get natural hiding boosts with 601 and 617. Furthermore, 608's AS boost can remain active if you manage to stay hidden post-firing.

While rogues can 3x S&H versus a ranger's 2x, these points lack synergies with other archer rogue skills. I'm not aware of any archery specific CMAN that rely on hiding, and points spent in S&H do not contribute towards Redux. Furthermore, since rogues do not utilize magic as heavily in the field, they do not tend to stop at brig like rangers do. And if I'm not mistaken, anything above brig is a relatively high penalty to hiding.

Both Rogues and Rangers get aiming buffs via 402/404 and 613... so that nets out.

Rogues can much more easily go 2x ambush, and 3x perception. While the 3rd rank of perception won't assist with AS, it will factor into DS (not substantially), aiming, and SMR defense. Rogues can also unlock 425, so their ranged AS cannot be matched by any class (as Buckwheet said).

Rangers with their spells become more dynamic hunters. While rogues have their guild CMANs, rangers get two spell circles worth of things to play with.

Long-Term Post-Cap, Semis always take the cake, being able to work on 2x ambush and 2x spells, whereas a rogue will end up working on more dodge, redux, and/or spells.

This is laughable as I dragged so many rangers out of OTF. If you've never capped a rogue that was worth mention, then you haven't truly known what it was like to be almost unkillable in OTF with the right training.

[Buckwheet]

I completely disagree with the above.... Well, the first half.

Rangers get natural hiding boosts with 601 and 617. Furthermore, 608's AS boost can remain active if you manage to stay hidden post-firing.

While rogues can 3x S&H versus a ranger's 2x, these points lack synergies with other archer rogue skills. I'm not aware of any archery specific CMAN that rely on hiding, and points spent in S&H do not contribute towards Redux. Furthermore, since rogues do not utilize magic as heavily in the field, they do not tend to stop at brig like rangers do. And if I'm not mistaken, anything above brig is a relatively high penalty to hiding.

Both Rogues and Rangers get aiming buffs via 402/404 and 613... so that nets out.

Rogues can much more easily go 2x ambush, and 3x perception. While the 3rd rank of perception won't assist with AS, it will factor into DS (not substantially), aiming, and SMR defense. Rogues can also unlock 425, so their ranged AS cannot be matched by any class (as Buckwheet said).

Rangers with their spells become more dynamic hunters. While rogues have their guild CMANs, rangers get two spell circles worth of things to play with.

Long-Term Post-Cap, Semis always take the cake, being able to work on 2x ambush and 2x spells, whereas a rogue will end up working on more dodge, redux, and/or spells.

I will slightly disagree because a Rogue is also like a semi in that you can find plenty of things to train in to make them great.

Casting rogues in metal breastplate with some enhancive items for armor use is pretty ridiculous. I preferred the rogue for one reason only. Vanish. I found the rogue had better overall defense and better offense and with really really far post cap training you can make up for the camo/sneaking spell by getting scrolls. 601 as a mass spell also helps rogues so that is a wash.

As far as pure killing power in a ranged version the one thing that Rangers have is the AOE spell at a ridiculous kill rate along with spikethorn. 409/415 isn't like that. However 125 works well, 410 is better for crowd control. Both have 117 for defensive grizzled or grims. Rogue can also get out of stuns which is another defensive bonus.

I just felt much more stout at 15m xp on the rogue than I did at 17m on the ranger. I think honestly for me it would boil down to a couple key abilities that are available for one and not available for the other.

Ranger - breeze
Rogue - vanish

Pick which one you find more useful.

[Whirlin]

I will slightly disagree because a Rogue is also like a semi in that you can find plenty of things to train in to make them great.

But what additional post-cap training is unique to a rogue? 3x Dodge, 3x S&H, 3x Perception, 3x lockpicking stuffs?
Both rangers and rogues can do things like 2x CMAN, 2x Ambush, etc.
The biggest difference is that ranger (and Bards) TP costs are so high, that they're further away from their potential when they cap.

So while a rogue may cap at 3x perception, 2x ambush, 2x Dodge
With potential to train from 2x to 3x dodge and 1x spells

A Ranger may cap closer to 1.1x spells, 1x ambush, 1x dodge
with potential to train 2x ambush, 2x dodge, 2x spells for a higher overall cost than a rogue.

2x Ranged, 1x CMAN, 1x Ambush, 1x PF, 1x Dodge, 2x Perception costs 26/18 for a ranger and 17/10 for a rogue.

[m444w]

A ranger with all the lores and spells and 2x hiding is roughly equivalent to a 3x hiding rogue, before smastery and armored stealth. A rogue is far and away superior stealth wise.

Of course a ranger is going to be better at putting down a crowd with 630 or whatever, but I think these days you add whirling dervish, ewave, twc, vanish and a few ambushes and it's going to be a negligible difference.


But you're comparing ranged

[Berubeo21]

Since capping and almost to 13m exp I've been open archer in 10x HDP full plate and love it, I have seen very few rangers that have a higher AS than me as well, being a half long helps. 425 and enhansives with a plain 5x fusion and bravery my AS is like 592 or so, pull out my ensorcelles bow and I'm Firing well above 600 often. 600 AS at a eye is pretty deadly. Plus I pick my own boxes!