What Obama Is Really Up to in Texas

[ClydeR]

Last Thursday..


And so, I don't think this is a permanent state of affairs; I think over time the Republican Party will move back to the center, mainly because if they don't, they'll never win the presidency again.

More... (http://www.marketplace.org/topics/economy/obama-middle-class-issues-drive-my-agenda)

Obama created quite a stir with that comment. He got our thinking wheels to turning. And now we know what his real plan is.


Monday..


"And if you bring in hundreds of thousands or millions of people and give them the ability to vote and tell them … [if] you want to keep getting the benefits, you have to go vote … that drives people to vote and it will ensure that Republicans don't ever get elected again.''

More... (http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/louie-gohmert-texas-border-crisis/2014/07/07/id/581222/)


Today..


WASHINGTON (AP) — The Senate easily confirmed San Antonio Mayor Julian Castro on Wednesday to head the Department of Housing and Urban Development, boosting the national profile of a Democrat with a compelling biography who's considered a vice presidential contender in 2016.

More... (http://news.yahoo.com/senate-oks-san-antonio-mayor-housing-secretary-163613004--politics.html)

That San Antonio place is in Texas, in case you didn't know.

[Dendum]

Would you waste a VP slot on a state your not going to win though?

[Atlanteax]

I especially liked the "if you want to get benefits... go vote (Democrats)"

Only affirms the argument that our benefits system is bloated and abused due to politicians padding it as a form of bribery (and the typical American voter not being bright enough to see that it costs them $$ in the long-run).

[ClydeR]

Would you waste a VP slot on a state your not going to win though?

Yes, I wold. Surely I don't have to remind you that John McCain chose his VP from a state her was certain to win. George W. Bush did too.

[Back]

I especially liked the "if you want to get benefits... go vote (Democrats)"

Only affirms the argument that our benefits system is bloated and abused due to politicians padding it as a form of bribery (and the typical American voter not being bright enough to see that it costs them $$ in the long-run).

I'd rather my tax dollars help people who need it rather than corporations and the wealthy elite.

[Tgo01]

I'd rather my tax dollars help people who need it rather than corporations and the wealthy elite.

How do your tax dollars go to corporations and the wealthy elite?

[Warriorbird]

How do your tax dollars go to corporations and the wealthy elite?

The same way yours do.

[Tgo01]

The same way yours do.

How are my tax dollars going to corporations and the wealthy elite.

I just want some examples :(

[Dendum]

Yes, I wold. Surely I don't have to remind you that John McCain chose his VP from a state her was certain to win. George W. Bush did too.

V.P.'s are normally chosen for a purpose, as in to to fire up a Luke warm base (Palin) to add credentials to an untested candidate (Biden, Cheney)...sometimes like in the case of Al Gore there isn't a clear cut reason for doing it other than the choice of the nominee.

Would Clinton need a latino VP to get the Latino vote though? Probably not with the direction the republican part has taken with regards to immigration. I am honestly not sure she will beat Biden in the primaries, or that her and Biden together will beat an outside challenger, perhaps the well spoke Castro or even Elizabeth Warren...and of course whoever they pick will also be a result of whatever the Republican party spits out in opposition. Marco Rubio as the nominee? Yea you would wan't a latino on the democratic ticket...otherwise it really will not matter if you look at the numbers.

[Warriorbird]

How are my tax dollars going to corporations and the wealthy elite.

I just want some examples :(

Subsidies would be one example. No bid contracts would be another.

[Kembal]

I especially liked the "if you want to get benefits... go vote (Democrats)"

Only affirms the argument that our benefits system is bloated and abused due to politicians padding it as a form of bribery (and the typical American voter not being bright enough to see that it costs them $$ in the long-run).

You realize, that's a quote from Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX), not from Obama.

Sadly, I think you may have been punked by the ClydeR persona.

[Tgo01]

Subsidies would be one example. No bid contracts would be another.

What kind of subsidies?

Kind of pushing it with no bid contracts.

[Kembal]

Subsidies would be one example. No bid contracts would be another.

Mainly comes in the forms of tax credits to specific industries. Section 1256, for example, is for futures traders.

[Tgo01]

Mainly comes in the forms of tax credits to specific industries.

But wouldn't tax credits indicate the corporation just isn't paying taxes, as opposed to them receiving our tax dollars?

[Kembal]

V.P.'s are normally chosen for a purpose, as in to to fire up a Luke warm base (Palin) to add credentials to an untested candidate (Biden, Cheney)...sometimes like in the case of Al Gore there isn't a clear cut reason for doing it other than the choice of the nominee.

Would Clinton need a latino VP to get the Latino vote though? Probably not with the direction the republican part has taken with regards to immigration. I am honestly not sure she will beat Biden in the primaries, or that her and Biden together will beat an outside challenger, perhaps the well spoke Castro or even Elizabeth Warren...and of course whoever they pick will also be a result of whatever the Republican party spits out in opposition. Marco Rubio as the nominee? Yea you would wan't a latino on the democratic ticket...otherwise it really will not matter if you look at the numbers.

I honestly don't see HUD Secretary as a launching point for the VP slot. Steve Bashear (KY Gov.) is a much better pick.

[Warriorbird]

What kind of subsidies?

Kind of pushing it with no bid contracts.

The tremendous subsidies paid to the oil industry and agribusiness would be prime examples. How exactly are no bid contracts pushing it? Some of the richest people I know are because of those.


But wouldn't tax credits indicate the corporation just isn't paying taxes, as opposed to them receiving our tax dollars?

Let's think on this one for a second. You can do it!

[Tgo01]

The tremendous subsidies paid to the oil industry

"Paid" to the oil industry or is the oil industry given a tax break?

I just want to make sure we're clear here that "giving corporations money" is not the same as reducing their tax burden.


How exactly are no bid contracts pushing it?

Not saying I'm a fan of no bid contracts but paying someone to do a (most of the time) necessary job is not exactly just doling out money to corporations for nothing.


Let's think on this one for a second. You can do it!

I thought about. I even thought about it for a whole minute.

I still stand by my statement. Please give your input on the matter so we can move this discussion forward.

[waywardgs]

Tax breaks are subsidies. Is that actually a matter of dispute? (To anyone except wrathbringer, I mean.)

[Warriorbird]

"Paid" to the oil industry or is the oil industry given a tax break?

I just want to make sure we're clear here that "giving corporations money" is not the same as reducing their tax burden.



Not saying I'm a fan of no bid contracts but paying someone to do a (most of the time) necessary job is not exactly just doling out money to corporations for nothing.



I thought about. I even thought about it for a whole minute.

I still stand by my statement. Please give your input on the matter so we can move this discussion forward.

You're purposefully obtuse so there isn't much point. When burden is not given to someone else more is shifted to you. Not paying money spends just the same as receiving money. If you're trying semantic bullshit to troll (which you probably are) it still doesn't stop it being your tax dollars.

Paying bloated amounts without competition for a necessary job is giving away your money. You might want to bow down and fellate the wealthy or think they're better than you, but that's still an avenue for your dollars to go away.

I've already explained why allowing people to not pay taxes is shifting more of the burden to you. The extra smart way is when they lower corporate taxes on them and raise them on you at the same time. It's really fun when you look at the burden on corporations at the start of income taxes versus the present.

[Tgo01]

Tax breaks are subsidies. Is that actually a matter of dispute? (To anyone except wrathbringer, I mean.)

A subsidy would indicate the government is giving oil companies money.

[Warriorbird]

A subsidy would indicate the government is giving oil companies money.

RE: oil and farming they are. Farming was even worse before they ended the tobacco subsidies. Semantic trolling about the rest is cute though.

[waywardgs]

A subsidy would indicate the government is giving oil companies money.

If I tell you you don't have to pay sales tax on your new 100 dollar microwave, I've just given you seven dollars. If I'm the government.

Edit: and if you're not a lawbreaker who thinks taxes are optional.

[Tgo01]

You're purposefully obtuse so there isn't much point. When burden is not given to someone else more is shifted to you. Not paying money spends just the same as receiving money. If you're trying semantic bullshit to troll (which you probably are) it still doesn't stop it being your tax dollars.

You're talking about tax breaks (that just about every American citizen takes advantage of) and comparing them to giving money away in the form of welfare and food stamps. You're really kind of stretching things here.


Paying bloated amounts without competition for a necessary job is giving away your money. You might want to bow down and fellate the wealthy or think they're better than you, but that's still an avenue for your dollars to go away.

You're still being silly. You're comparing paying someone to do a necessary job to literally just handing someone money for nothing.

[waywardgs]

You're talking about tax breaks (that just about every American citizen takes advantage of) and comparing them to giving money away in the form of welfare and food stamps. You're really kind of stretching things here.



You're still being silly. You're comparing paying someone to do a necessary job to literally just handing someone money for nothing.

It's not stretching anything. It's one of the ways our government "subsidizes" an industry.

[Warriorbird]

You're talking about tax breaks (that just about every American citizen takes advantage of) and comparing them to giving money away in the form of welfare and food stamps. You're really kind of stretching things here.



You're still being silly. You're comparing paying someone to do a necessary job to literally just handing someone money for nothing.

If somebody gets a whole hell of a lot more tax breaks than everybody else it is indeed giving away money.

If somebody is paid 15x traditional bid prices to do a job it is giving away money.

Just because you don't want to admit corporate welfare and the advantages given to the wealthy doesn't mean that they don't exist.

You're more rational than this.

It's entertaining though. You're effectively Uncle Ruckus for corporations and the affluent.

[Tgo01]

If I tell you you don't have to pay sales tax on your new 100 dollar microwave, I've just given you seven dollars. If I'm the government.

But the discussion was giving away our tax dollars. We didn't collect 7 dollars from Citizen A and give it to Citizen B. We just laughed at Citizen A and took his money and patted Citizen B on the head.


It's not stretching anything.

It is in the context of giving money away.

Here's 12,000 dollars a year for doing nothing.
Here's 12,000 dollars a year for helping to build that road.

I think there is a distinct difference here. Especially considering 12,000 dollars toward road building would just barely cover erecting a stop sign.

[Tgo01]

If somebody gets a whole hell of a lot more tax breaks than everybody else it is indeed giving away money.

Are we talking dollar amount or percentage wise?

If dollar amount well no kidding, any large corporation is going to receive a larger tax break than Joe Six-Pack.


Just because you don't want to admit corporate welfare and the advantages given to the wealthy doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Hey I just wanted to hear some examples. I always hear Democrats cry that big corporations and the rich get all kinds of money from the government but I never hear any specifics. In fact I have yet to hear any real specifics other than "oil and farm subsidies." What kind of subsidies? For what? And how are the rich given tax dollars? That's never been explained.


It's entertaining though. You're effectively Uncle Ruckus for corporations and the affluent.

Well when the rich take over the world and squash all of the peasants they'll remember me here and reward me.

[Warriorbird]

But the discussion was giving away our tax dollars. We didn't collect 7 dollars from Citizen A and give it to Citizen B. We just laughed at Citizen A and took his money and patted Citizen B on the head.



It is in the context of giving money away.

Here's 12,000 dollars a year for doing nothing.
Here's 12,000 dollars a year for helping to build that road.

I think there is a distinct difference here. Especially considering 12,000 dollars toward road building would just barely cover erecting a stop sign.

We literally give our tax dollars to oil and agribusiness. We take money from taxpayers and pay it to the companies.

When a rich person gets an inflated bid without competition our tax dollars are literally being given away. It doesn't matter if it's necessary if you pay 15x market prices. Then you go "WAAH WAAH WAAH, GOVERNMENT IS INEFFICIENT!" to double down on the conservative nonsense. This is what lobbyists do and the conservative court has literally made it open season for campaign money.

In some spate of misguided nonsense you want to deny it but its just how it is.


Are we talking dollar amount or percentage wise?

If dollar amount well no kidding, any large corporation is going to receive a larger tax break than Joe Six-Pack.

Hey I just wanted to hear some examples. I always hear Democrats cry that big corporations and the rich get all kinds of money from the government but I never hear any specifics. In fact I have yet to hear any real specifics other than "oil and farm subsidies." What kind of subsidies? For what? And how are the rich given tax dollars? That's never been explained.


We are talking percentage wise.

Once again for like the fifth time the specific examples are the oil industry, agribusiness, and I'll also throw in alternative energy.

To explain it to you again, rich people own companies. They pay lobbyists. Those companies get bloated contracts with no competition involved, for far more than traditional bid rates. They profit. Our tax dollars have paid for it. Citizens United has made this even more ridiculous and widespread. Then y'all have the audacity to whine about government being inefficient when you've empowered this.



Well when the rich take over the world and squash all of the peasants they'll remember me here and reward me.

They already did that. They don't give a fuck about you. You don't even vote Republican or Democrat to give them more tax breaks and subsidies. What good are you?

[Tgo01]

When a rich person gets an inflated bid without competition our tax dollars are literally being given away. It doesn't matter if it's necessary if you pay 15x market prices.

Is this like how government union jobs pay their employees inflated wages compared to non union workers?

OH SNAP!


We are talking percentage wise.

According to this site (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2013/03/17/companies-paying-highest-income-taxes/1991313/) ExxonMobil paid almost 40% in taxes in 2013, Chevron 43% and ConocoPhillips 51%.

A single person making 50k a year would have a tax rate of up to 25%, before any deductions.


Once again for like the fifth time the specific examples are the oil industry, agribusiness, and I'll also throw in alternative energy.

Yes but I'd like to hear specifics; like, what are these subsidies/tax breaks for? People seem to think these tax breaks are simply "Here! Have free money!"


To explain it to you again, rich people own companies.

Okay so we're just conflating businesses and rich people. One problem solved!


They already did that. They don't give a fuck about you. You don't even vote Republican or Democrat to give them more tax breaks and subsidies. What good are you?

Hey! My mom says I'm special.

[Warriorbird]

Is this like how government union jobs pay their employees inflated wages compared to non union workers?

OH SNAP!



According to this site (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2013/03/17/companies-paying-highest-income-taxes/1991313/) ExxonMobil paid almost 40% in taxes in 2013, Chevron 43% and ConocoPhillips 51%.

A single person making 50k a year would have a tax rate of up to 25%, before any deductions.



Yes but I'd like to hear specifics; like, what are these subsidies/tax breaks for? People seem to think these tax breaks are simply "Here! Have free money!"



Okay so we're just conflating businesses and rich people. One problem solved!



Hey! My mom says I'm special.

It's funny how that unless you cook the numbers the government doesn't pay more.

If your James O'Keefe twisted world were true, it'd be just the same.

You've got some trouble with your tax calculations. Serious trouble.

Mitt Romney also conflates businesses and rich people! So does John Roberts! Oh snap!

You seem to forget the connection between companies and people and shareholders who own them.

Some subsidy numbers though:

$1 trillion until 2030 for power companies to "Bring the grid up to date."

Fossil fuel payments (coal and oil): $10 billion (Tax credits $42 billion) (Payments for exploration, equipment, operations, retrofitting for cleaner energy, and tax credits)
Renewable payments: $13 billion (Tax credits up to $150 billion) (Guaranteed loans, operation payments, tax credits)
Nuclear subsidies: $2.5 billion (Tax credits $5.8 billion) (Payments for operations and general tax credits)
Agriculture: $19 billion (Payments and paying for crop insurance)

[Tgo01]

Some subsidy numbers though:

$1 trillion until 2030 for power companies to "Bring the grid up to date."

But like...isn't that a good thing?

[Warriorbird]

But like...isn't that a good thing?

There isn't exactly what we call much oversight on it. Paying a company for basic operations is giving away taxpayer dollars to a company that is going to profit off it and maybe go Enron in the process. Next thing you're going to tell me that paying people so they don't starve is a good thing and they'll kick you out of the Republican Party again for having empathy.

[Tgo01]

There isn't exactly what we call much oversight on it. Paying a company for basic operations is giving away taxpayer dollars to a company that is going to profit off it and maybe go Enron in the process. Next thing you're going to tell me that paying people so they don't starve is a good thing and they'll kick you out of the Republican Party again for having empathy.

Aren't you the one always saying that it's worth it to have the food stamp programs even though it might be abused because it still provides a lot of good? And you even mention that in this very quote of yours yet you're against giving power companies tax breaks to help ensure the national power grid stays up to date and keeps on running because of potential for abuse :/

I suppose the government could always use that money to upgrade the power grid themselves, surely that would be cheaper.

And yes I happen to think food stamps is a very good program. I also think welfare is good and subsidized housing. I think earned income tax credit is a bit of bullshit because it encourages people to have kids they can't afford but at the same time we need to ensure we keep getting young people in the workforce to help pay for social programs so in that sense it's a good thing but we could also revamp our immigration system to do much of the same but I'm against rewarding people for breaking the law (being here illegally) but at the same time I think there should be certain exceptions like if they've been here a long time and have roots in the community or if they were brought here as children and have stayed out of legal trouble and are going to school and might be a productive member of society or if they serve in the military or shit like that I'm just against rewarding Jose who crossed the border yesterday and already held up three liquor stores by saying "Hey Jose! You're now an American citizen!"

[Warriorbird]

Aren't you the one always saying that it's worth it to have the food stamp programs even though it might be abused because it still provides a lot of good? And you even mention that in this very quote of yours yet you're against giving power companies tax breaks to help ensure the national power grid stays update and keeps on running because of potential for abuse :/

I suppose the government could always use that money to upgrade the power grid themselves, surely that would be cheaper.

And yes I happen to think food stamps is a very good program. I also think welfare is good and subsidized housing. I think earned income tax credit is a bit of bullshit because it encourages people to have kids they can't afford but at the same time we need to ensure we keep getting young people in the workforce to help pay for social programs so in that sense it's a good thing but we could also revamp our immigration system to do much of the same but I'm against rewarding people for breaking the law (being here illegally) but at the same time I think there should be certain exceptions like if they've been here a long time and have roots in the community or if they were brought here as children and have stayed out of legal trouble and are going to school and might be a productive member of society or if they serve in the military or shit like that I'm just against rewarding Jose who crossed the border yesterday and already held up three liquor stores by saying "Hey Jose! You're now an American citizen!"

I think coal, oil, gas, and nuclear are going to do just fine without us paying them. I think the only barrier to nuclear is the prevention of further plant development.

I think utilities, which have supported monopolies, are going to do just fine.

I think Archer Daniels Midland and Monsanto are going to do just fine without us paying them. It might be a nice thing to help individual farmers with crop insurance but when you're guaranteeing the crops of multi billion dollar corporations it gets more than a bit silly.

P.S. You were kicked out of the Republican Party for that last post.

[Tgo01]

I think coal, oil, gas, and nuclear are going to do just fine without us paying them. I think the only barrier to nuclear is the prevention of further plant development.

Of course they'll do just fine. But just like we subsidize scientists to lie to us about climate change we also provide tax breaks to companies for things like R&D development. Encouraging companies to invest in R&D is a good thing. Saying "Hey! Invest in R&D and we'll give you tax breaks" is not the same as "Hey! HERE'S FREE MONEY BECAUSE YOU'RE AN OIL COMPANY!"

This is why I like to hear specifics. If you were to link to something that said we engage in the latter then...well just yeah. Do it.


I think utilities, which have supported monopolies, are going to do just fine.

They might. But then again considering how important the power grid is I think it would be a good idea to give them tax breaks to help ensure everything keeps running smoothly anyways.


I think Archer Daniels Midland and Monsanto are going to do just fine without us paying them.

But did tax breaks allow these companies to flourish and become as big as they are now? Is Monsanto not constantly investing in R&D? That's like, what they do, right?


P.S. You were kicked out of the Republican Party for that last post.

If Latrin can be a Republican then I can be an independent, dammit!

[Warriorbird]

Of course they'll do just fine. But just like we subsidize scientists to lie to us about climate change we also provide tax breaks to companies for things like R&D development. Encouraging companies to invest in R&D is a good thing. Saying "Hey! Invest in R&D and we'll give you tax breaks" is not the same as "Hey! HERE'S FREE MONEY BECAUSE YOU'RE AN OIL COMPANY!"

This is why I like to hear specifics. If you were to link to something that said we engage in the latter then...well just yeah. Do it.



They might. But then again considering how important the power grid is I think it would be a good idea to give them tax breaks to help ensure everything keeps running smoothly anyways.



But did tax breaks allow these companies to flourish and become as big as they are now? Is Monsanto not constantly investing in R&D? That's like, what they do, right?



If Latrin can be a Republican then I can be an independent, dammit!

R&D is a portion of what is paid for, but only a portion (roughly 20% of the oil payment, 33% of renewable, 0% of agriculture) . If it were all of what we paid for I would be a lot more comfortable. Just because somebody lobbies well does not mean that they should have their company's operating costs covered.

I'd love to see Citizens United get overturned in spite of it depowering unions.

[Tgo01]

I'd love to see Citizens United get overturned in spite of it depowering unions.

I really don't see what the big problem is with Citizens United. Does legislation affect corporations and unions? Yes. Why shouldn't corporations and unions spend their money endorsing a particular candidate?

Why can Bill Gates as a private citizen use his billions to support a candidate but Microsoft can't?

Are corporations not people too?

[Androidpk]

I really don't see what the big problem is with Citizens United. Does legislation affect corporations and unions? Yes. Why shouldn't corporations and unions spend their money endorsing a particular candidate?

Why can Bill Gates as a private citizen use his billions to support a candidate but Microsoft can't?

Are corporations not people too?

They certainly seem like people to me. I get fucked in the ass once a month by Comcast.

[Warriorbird]

I really don't see what the big problem is with Citizens United. Does legislation affect corporations and unions? Yes. Why shouldn't corporations and unions spend their money endorsing a particular candidate?

Why can Bill Gates as a private citizen use his billions to support a candidate but Microsoft can't?

Are corporations not people too?

When you remove all limits and throw in foreigners and foreign governments, shady stuff rises like the deficit.

[Androidpk]

When you remove all limits and throw in foreigners and foreign governments, shady stuff rises like the deficit.

The People's Liberation Army has the best intentions though. Not that our politicians would take donations from them. Certainly NOT the Clintons!

[Warriorbird]

The People's Liberation Army has the best intentions though. Not that our politicians would take donations from them. Certainly NOT the Clintons!

Of course they do. That's why John Roberts made those donations now legal. He loves the Clintons. So do all of you.

[Androidpk]

Of course they do. That's why John Roberts made those donations now legal. He loves the Clintons. So do all of you.

May eternal president Clinton bless us all!

[Tgo01]

throw in foreigners and foreign governments, shady stuff rises like the deficit.

Foreigners are still not allowed to give money to influence US elections.

[Androidpk]

Foreigners are still not allowed to give money to influence US elections.

And yet it happens anyways

[Tgo01]

And yet it happens anyways.

As Democrats have repeatedly said when they are faced with illegal activity to which they don't want to deal with; legalize it!

[Warriorbird]

Foreigners are still not allowed to give money to influence US elections.

But foreigners are sure allowed to give money to companies and companies can give all they want to US elections. See how clever that is, semantics guy?


As Democrats have repeatedly said when they are faced with illegal activity to which they don't want to deal with; legalize it!

I was so proud when John Roberts joined the Democratic Party.

[Tgo01]

But foreigners are sure allowed to give money to companies and companies can give all they want to US elections. See how clever that is, semantics guy?

Huh? You mean like a foreigner is going to give a gift of 10,000 dollars to Microsoft and Microsoft is going to use that gift in US elections?

Even if that ever happened it would have happened before Citizens United.

[Warriorbird]

Huh? You mean like a foreigner is going to give a gift of 10,000 dollars to Microsoft and Microsoft is going to use that gift in US elections?

Even if that ever happened it would have happened before Citizens United.

Prior to it it got looked at really thoroughly under campaign finance rules. Now if you look hard at anybody Republicans flip out and bawww and waaaah for months.

[Tgo01]

Prior to it it got looked at really thoroughly under campaign finance rules. Now if you look hard at anybody Republicans flip out and bawww and waaaah for months.

I'm assuming you're talking about 501c thingies.

They were never required to disclose their donors.

[Androidpk]

But foreigners are sure allowed to give money to companies and companies can give all they want to US elections. See how clever that is, semantics guy?



Or they transfer money to an "American citizen" and that person transfers the money to a politician.

[Warriorbird]

I'm assuming you're talking about 501c thingies.

They were never required to disclose their donors.

Nope, corporations. I was only talking about 501cs with the making fun of you bit.


Or they transfer money to an "American citizen" and that person transfers the money to a politician.

Yep!

[Tgo01]

Or they transfer money to an "American citizen" and that person transfers the money to a politician.

That could have happened pre Citizens United though.


Nope, corporations.

But, like, it's illegal. Are you saying Citizens United forced the IRS to not look into these sorts of things?

[Androidpk]

Could have happened? It did happen. In the mid-90's a certain democrat dynasty received hundreds of thousands from a Chinese man with strong connections to the PLA.

[Tgo01]

Could have happened? It did happen. In the mid-90's a certain democrat dynasty received hundreds of thousands from a Chinese man with strong connections to the PLA.

Hilary would never do such a thing :O

[Methais]

I'd rather my tax dollars help people who need it rather than corporations and the wealthy elite.

What's your opinion on your tax dollars going to individual people who don't need it but get it anyway because they abuse the system that politicians use to bribe them with for votes?

[Back]

What's your opinion on your tax dollars going to individual people who don't need it but get it anyway because they abuse the system that politicians use to bribe them with for votes?

Uh, bribing people with the lavish lifestyle of living on welfare and foodstamps? C'mon man! Think about it how silly that statement is.

[Methais]

http://i.imgur.com/3ivWeja.png

[Methais]

Uh, bribing people with the lavish lifestyle of living on welfare and foodstamps? C'mon man! Think about it how silly that statement is.

Right, because nobody does that to enjoy their lavish lifestyle of not working for a living. At all.

[Tgo01]

Obama is running this country all by himself? No wonder he had to cut in line at that restaurant :O

[Kembal]

The Pakistani government did it with Congresspeople. Look up Ghulam Nabi Fai if interested. Oddly, he only got thrown in jail for being an unregistered agent of the Pakistani government, not for illegally giving foreign money to candidates.

[Candor]

As a fairly dedicated Republican, I have had significant issues with past Democratic presidents. But most of these issues pale in comparison to what I believe Obama has been doing to our country. If I could trade Obama for Bill Clinton, or even Jimmy Carter, I would not hesitate to take the deal.

[Androidpk]

Carter, sure. Billy boy, hell no.

[Latrinsorm]

So if I understand you correctly, your Presidential ratings go Carter > Obama > Clinton? Don't get high on your own supply, bby.

[Candor]

So if I understand you correctly, your Presidential ratings go Carter > Obama > Clinton? Don't get high on your own supply, bby.

Latrinsorm, please stop saying things I agree with. It's disturbing.