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GSTamral
09-27-2004, 11:42 PM
I had a very very interesting talk with some people from work today. 5 Kerry supporters, 2 undecideds and 2 of us Bush supporters and we came to the following realizations.

1) We are in an absolute hellish quagmire in Iraq, which is partially the responsibility of the Bush administration.

2) We did this partly because environmentalists and eco-terrorists from the far left have made it otherwise impossible to drill for oil and build power plants in this country.

3) These same eco-terrorists are responsible for us not having placed a hydroelectric dam on the missouri and mississippi because of fears of displacing some squirrels and fish.

4) Our lack of energy makes us dependant on the middle east. This limits the world's ability to deal with this region in a proper fashion. Bush's ties to big oil have only furthered this vicious pattern of destruction.

5) This country is ill-suited to create the 10 million manufacturing jobs Kerry is promising. It is a pipe dream and a lie at best.

6) This country is ill-equipped to provide better healthcare solutions because Republicans won't yield to better socialized care, and Democrats won't put a cap on lawsuit limits. Neither one of the candidates is even a moderate on the issue. Bush is on the right extreme, and kerry on the left extreme.

7) Kerry's plan for America uses some of the fudgiest numbers anyone has ever seen, done by the Enron accountants themselves. His plan is about as believable, in retrospect, as Bush's plan was in his first term.

8) This nation needs a 3rd, 4th, and maybe even 5th party. Whatever it takes to get a more general consensus that everyone can find a candidate they deem acceptable.

9) Bush is a moron puppet, but he brings much more enthusiasm than Kerry, who makes Al Gore seem really exciting. John Edwards > Cock Cheney

10) Many people in America don't share enthusiasm in either candidate. Many of them have strong disagreements with the candidate they will end up voting for. It would not be fundamentally sound for them to vote for the sake of voting. You can't have a clear conscience voting for someone who you find to be less of a prick than the other person. You shouldnt be forced to pick someone you think is a cocksucker because of lack of other options. "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice".

Long story short, I have a feeling that 9 people will be voting for either an independant third party candidate, or just nobody at all. When forced to choose between the far right and far left, someone needs to go out there and just say middle.

Brattt8525
09-27-2004, 11:45 PM
My opnion, is vote for the lesser of the two evils...IE Bush

Marl
09-28-2004, 05:03 AM
where is Ross Perot when you need him????:devil:

Caiylania
09-28-2004, 05:15 AM
I say we throw a dart at a us map, go to the town it hits, and elect a president from there. Even let the idgits run.

Keller
09-28-2004, 06:17 AM
damn nice post Tamral. I just gained a hell of a lot of respect for you.

Honestly, I agreed with everything you said.

My greatest fear for our country right now is that China and India are both gearing up for the greatest push into the industrial/technical economy this world has ever seen. I don't claim to be a soothsayer, but I honestly believe the best is behind us as we move further and further towards a truly global economy. What we need now is a leader who appriciates and prepares for it -- whatever that means. Because god knows I have no idea how to deal with it.

TheEschaton
09-28-2004, 06:25 AM
That can be done by electing a man who, while American, is global in his thinking. Being Indian helps, since you see China and India making the push.


Unfortunately, I won't be 35 until 2016. But that's an election year! Maybe I'll just hold out for 2020.

Well, in the intervening years, we can get rid of that pesky bit which forbids naturalized citizens from becoming President.

-TheE-

Caiylania
09-28-2004, 06:28 AM
I take it -E- that you want to vote for the terminator then?

:D j/k

TheEschaton
09-28-2004, 06:40 AM
Hehehe, not really.


On a funny note, I remember some conservative fellow (from S. Carolina, maybe?), about a half year, or a year ago, saying that the "naturalized citizen ban" was silly, and that it really should be done away with. He was of course, saying that Arnold would make a good President, but because he was born in Austria, can't run.

Meanwhile, I was in my secret lair giving random evil Muahahahahas and going "Exxxxxxxxcellent", all while stroking my black cat and sometimes doing the five finger bridge tap thing.

It would be deliciously ironic to have conservatives overthrow the one rule in the way of me running for President.

-TheE-

Caiylania
09-28-2004, 07:14 AM
CONSPIRACY! Someone call the FBI! A GUY IS PLANNING ON RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. Holy shit!

Back
09-28-2004, 09:51 AM
Geez, Tam, you say some good things, then mess it all up with outrageous claims. Environmentalists are the reason we went to war with Iraq??? LOL. That is some seriously twisted spin, my friend, and very entertaining.

The energy crisis is due to fat oil barons derailing legitimate research on developing other ways to get energy. The petrol/chemical industry does not want to lose the riches it has gained since the Industrial Revolution. In the past four years, the price of oil per barrel is now close to double.

My theory is that no matter what we do, nature will correct it, but lets not push nature into correcting us.

Wezas
09-28-2004, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by GSTamral
Bush and Cheney have ties to big oil that prevent hydroelectric and fuel cell research from being conducted.

:wasntme:

TheEschaton
09-28-2004, 09:58 AM
Nature tends to "correct things" by killing lots of us, all at once.


Gotta love Hardy-Weinberg.


-TheE-

Valthissa
09-28-2004, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by Backlash

In the past four years, the price of oil per barrel is now close to double.

.

and in the past four years the demand for oil is ???

without an analysis of the oil market (including refining) and why the price has risen I don't think you can reach any conclusions based on your statement.

C/Valth - still for divided government

Back
09-28-2004, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Valthissa

Originally posted by Backlash

In the past four years, the price of oil per barrel is now close to double.

.

and in the past four years the demand for oil is ???

without an analysis of the oil market (including refining) and why the price has risen I don't think you can reach any conclusions based on your statement.

C/Valth - still for divided government

I see your point. I have no numbers but I seriously doubt consumption has doubled. What else could it be? Supply has been strangled.

My conclusion. The war in Iraq has driven the price of oil to double. US Reserves have been untapped until hurricane Jean. Who is getting rich?

xtc
09-28-2004, 11:55 AM
You will never find a candidate who represents all your views. The key is to find the candidate who represents your views the closest. Some people like to vote strategically, i.e. I like Nader but since I fear Bush getting in office I am voting for Kerry. For me this year I think it will be Kerry however I don't necessarily consider myself a democrat and Kerry doesn't represent all my views, but I will vote.

Keller
09-28-2004, 05:06 PM
Backlash, consumption is on a serious increase. I don't know if you missed it, but China is industrializing ... fast. THAT is the reason oil prices are increasing. Economics are steadfast. You increase demand without increasing supply, you raise the price.

GSTamral
09-28-2004, 08:42 PM
Backlash, I never said environmentalists caused us to go to war with Iraq. Bush's personal vendettas have led us there.

But environmentalists are part of the reason this country is in bed with the Saudi King, which is the reason for our airbase there, which is the reason they hate us.

We need their oil. We can't drill for more here because of environmentalists. We can't build nuclear power plants because of environmentalists. We can't dam the Missouri or Mississippi because of environmentalists. We can't mine for coal because of environmentalists. We can't build natural gas refineries because of environmentalists.

This leaves us with the harsh reality that we don't have enough energy, and we have to get it from somewhere. China is Industrializing. India is Industrializing. OPEC controls the world oil supply and so we must get in bed with them, even if it isn;t the right thing to do because of this.

Solar Power doesn;t have the technology to work effectively, nor will it in the next 50 years. Fuel cell technologies are being blocked by Bush/Cheney, Clinton, and every leader prior to it aside from Carter.