Father leaves child in hot car

[Tgo01]

Anyone read about this story yet? The father claims he accidentally left his son in a hot car and he died, police think he did it on purpose. (http://www.aol.com/article/2014/06/27/did-dad-charged-in-sons-death-research-hot-car-fatality/20921132/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D494524)


The story was already horrifying - the death of a 22-month-old boy after his father left him in a car on a hot day. But now, new reports voice suspicions about the death.



One comes from HLN - take a look at this headline: "Dad made disturbing search before tot's death."

According to HLN's anonymous source, that disturbing search on a computer seized from the office of 33-year-old Justin Ross Harris was the phrase "how long does it take for an animal to die in a hot car?"

While HLN's online headline focuses on the father, the network's on-air reporter was much more careful.

​"Police found that someone searched ... Two caveats here, they do not know or have not said when the search was conducted, and no confirmation that it was Harris who conducted that search."

The basic details aren't exclusive to HLN. Atlanta's WAGA also reported about the alleged search and cited an unnamed law enforcement official.

Harris has pleaded not guilty to murder and child cruelty charges, saying he forgot his son Cooper Harris was in the back seat until he finished his work day about seven hours later.

CNN reports police have declined to comment about the alleged search query and have not disclosed whether it was what led to Harris' arrest shortly after the incident.

But police say the evidence they do have indicates this might not have been an accident.

According to NBC, a criminal warrant released Wednesday indicates Harris took his son to breakfast before heading to work and even returned to the vehicle at some point during lunch.

ABC reports medical examiners believe the boy's cause of death is consistent with hyperthermia, but an official ruling will be released pending a toxicology test.

Cooper Harris' funeral is Saturday. Justin Harris is currently being held without bail and is set to appear in court next month.

What I don't understand is they apparently weren't going to press charges until they found evidence that this wasn't an accident. The father keeps saying he's innocent, it was just an accident.

Accident or not aren't parents thrown in jail for this type of shit? Child neglect resulting in death or something?

Why is this guy getting a pass on that?

[Ker_Thwap]

Apparently, they have video of this guy. Parking on the roof deck, in an out of the way place that gets a lot of afternoon sun, and even going back during his lunch hour to get something from the car.

I know that slow roasting this guy to death won't bring the kid back, or help anyone, but I'm still enough of a barbarian to want to see it done.

Yeah, I have weird fantasies.

[waywardgs]

Anyone read about this story yet? The father claims he accidentally left his son in a hot car and he died, police think he did it on purpose. (http://www.aol.com/article/2014/06/27/did-dad-charged-in-sons-death-research-hot-car-fatality/20921132/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D494524)


What I don't understand is they apparently weren't going to press charges until they found evidence that this wasn't an accident. The father keeps saying he's innocent, it was just an accident.

Accident or not aren't parents thrown in jail for this type of shit? Child neglect resulting in death or something?

Why is this guy getting a pass on that?

I don't think he'd get a pass; they're just trying to figure out what the charges should be.

[waywardgs]

Apparently, they have video of this guy. Parking on the roof deck, in an out of the way place that gets a lot of afternoon sun, and even going back during his lunch hour to get something from the car.

I know that slow roasting this guy to death won't bring the kid back, or help anyone, but I'm still enough of a barbarian to want to see it done.

Yeah, I have weird fantasies.

Not that weird. I'm inclined to agree.

[Taernath]

Accident or not aren't parents thrown in jail for this type of shit? Child neglect resulting in death or something?

Why is this guy getting a pass on that?

I didn't get that from the article. But premeditation would result in a higher murder charge vs negligent homicide or manslaughter.

[Tgo01]

Well this article is after the police arrested him and charged him with murder.

I should have linked an older article where it basically sounded like the guy was going to go free with no charges until they found evidence of murder.

[Taernath]

I should have linked an older article where it basically sounded like the guy was going to go free with no charges until they found evidence of murder.

I don't think that ever happens.

[Tgo01]

I don't think that ever happens.

That's why I thought it was strange.

Even if they can't convict him of murder they could try him for child neglect or manslaughter.

[Gelston]

I don't think that ever happens.

It depends on the circumstances. There are times where people get no criminal charges for doing the same thing.

Read about the support group for parents who have done this: http://www.kidsandcars.org/

[Taernath]

That's why I thought it was strange.

Even if they can't convict him of murder they could try him for child neglect or manslaughter.

Yeah. I was on a grand jury a few years ago where a woman's young disabled son fell in their pool and drowned after the she went inside to get something and got distracted by her daughter. The way it was explained was that she just lost track of time (15 minutes). She was eventually convicted of negligent homicide and child abuse.

[Ker_Thwap]

It depends on the circumstances. There are times where people get no criminal charges for doing the same thing.

Read about the support group for parents who have done this: http://www.kidsandcars.org/

That is about the saddest site in the world.

[Dwaar]

Situations like this... with footage, and such conscious neglect... the father should be tried, then simply shot. I know people don't like the death penalty, but whatever... assholes like this should not get to live their life after what they've done to the innocent.

[Allereli]

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/craziest-revelations-from-hot-car-death-fathers-court-hearing/

[Atlanteax]

Crimes like these only reinforces the argument to punish the wrong-doers by the same depraved act.. ie this guy is sentenced to death via car sauna.

[Gompers]

Put that son of bitch in a vented black metal box in 95°+ temps and stream the video online. I'd watch.

[Warriorbird]

During the time his kid was dying he texted six different women who weren't his wife and sent a dick pic. Winner.

[Methais]

Accident or not aren't parents thrown in jail for this type of shit? Child neglect resulting in death or something?

No, they only do that for serious offenses, like spanking your child or sending them to school with a cupcake or Tylenol

[Atlanteax]

Seems that the wife/mother was 'in on it' too...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/07/justice/leanna-harris-5-questions/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[Taernath]

"I miss him with all of my heart. Would I bring him back? No. To bring him back into this broken world would be selfish."

da fuq

[Parkbandit]

Jesus.. I hope when the Aliens come, they go after people like this to use as a food source.

[Savrin]

[QUOTE=Tgo01;1674287]Anyone read about this story yet? The father claims he accidentally left his son in a hot car and he died, police think he did it on purpose. (http://www.aol.com/article/2014/06/27/did-dad-charged-in-sons-death-research-hot-car-fatality/20921132/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D494524)


Without going way out there I'll paint a scenario.... Guy is a single father, he doesn't have a support network, and he is working and has a son. We'll pretend the mother is in jail for drug use. He does his best, but still the baby dies. He didn't think the child would die.... He is just trying to provide by working and can't afford a babysitter and he's warm so he doesn't think it's a problem.....

My dad used to tell me "For the grace of "name your deity," there be I."

Having worked in the criminal justice system for over 15 years, I can tell you that it is easy to judge. Having had family and known people under circumstance, it makes passing judgement hard.

[JackWhisper]

It's not hard to pass judgment on a guy who queried the internet about death timers for sitting an animal in a car.

It's not hard to pass judgment on a guy who would rather ignore his child and kill it than give it up for adoption.

It's not hard to pass judgment on a guy who even returned to his car for something later on, and ignored his offspring so they died.

I'm sorry, but I'd be one of those people offering a small reward to the first lifer's family to talk to me, so said lifer shanks this guy and he bleeds out in a stall in the prison he's at. There's so much coincidence it's ridiculous. You have to be nine shades of stupid to think this was an accident. I don't even care IF, by the grace of whoever's sitting on the clouds, it ends up being an actual accident. He deserves to die a slow and painful, preferably repeatedly Jeril-violated, death. Then brought back via resuscitation just to be choked to death by his own penis which has been cut off with a razor blade melted into the end of a toothbrush.

<--- Single father. Making it work. Not that fuckin' hard. Little bitches can't man up to their fuckin' responsibility. Fuck that noise. Children, the lot of 'em.

[Savrin]

If it was malicious, then yeah, he's a dirt bag.

Didn't bother reading the story so I probably spoke out of turn.

[Gelston]

If it was malicious, then yeah, he's a dirt bag.

Didn't bother reading the story so I probably spoke out of turn.

You were a bit out of turn. Also, I am pretty sure he wasn't a single father.

While your scenario could and probably did exist, it is irrelevant to this case.

I don't, however, see this case as worse than any other premeditated murder. For some reason when a little kid is involved the "oh shit" factor goes up. Maybe because they are helpless? Either way, a life is a life to me.

[JackWhisper]

Yeah apparently this guy has a woman *the kid's mother* who is being investigated because they think she was in on it. Dump em in a sun-exposed room they can't get out of, leave em for a week, and see them try to eat each other. Then send in a batch of homeless hungry dogs a la Kim Jong style.

And yeah, Gel, I agree. A life is a life. I get more annoyed because, as you said, children cannot defend themselves.

[Tgo01]

So while this guy is being demonized and charged with murder for purposefully leaving his child in a car (which I agree with by the way, don't misread that), this woman (http://www.aol.com/article/2014/07/24/arizona-mother-speaks-out-about-leaving-children-in-a-hot-car/20936560/?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl14|sec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D506703), who purposefully left her 2 children in a car, is not only receiving a slap on the wrist but she has also received over 100,000 dollars in donations for it.


Shanesha Taylor, the Arizona mother who left her two children in a hot car while she went on a job interview, is speaking out after reaching a plea deal with prosecutors.

Taylor sat down with TODAY's Matt Lauer Thursday morning, and said the decision to leave her children in the car was not made out of laziness, but despair.

"It was a moment of desperation. It was me knowing my family was in crisis and knowing that I had to make a choice between providing for my children or caring for my children."



Taylor's story gained national attention back in March after she was arrested for leaving her 6-month-old and two year old sons in a SUV for more than a half hour while she interviewed for job. She claims she arranged for a sitter, but says they fell through last minute. Police estimated the vehicle got as hot as 100 degrees while she was away.

Despite many stories of children being left in hot cars getting negative press, Taylor's attracted sympathy. She received donations from strangers amounting in nearly $115,000.

Luckily, prosecutors have agreed to drop felony child abuse charges against Taylor as long as she completes between 26 to 52 weeks of parenting abuse programs, and puts the money raised towards an educational trust fund for her children. If for some reason Taylor does not fulfill her agreement with prosecutors, they've said they will pick back up the case.

I like how the article says "luckily" the state dropped felony child abuse charges. Yes, luckily people aren't charged with felony child abuse when they engaged in felony child abuse.

I wonder if there will be any copycats thinking they can cash in by endangering their children?

[Laviticas]

Yup, pretty damn sad when humans kill their children so they don't have to take responsibility. But we allow it to happen every day and some of us completely support it.

[Latrinsorm]

So while this guy is being demonized and charged with murder for purposefully leaving his child in a car (which I agree with by the way, don't misread that), this woman, who purposefully left her 2 children in a car, is not only receiving a slap on the wrist but she has also received over 100,000 dollars in donations for it.Half an hour isn't the same as eight hours, and there's no evidence it was a premeditated plot on her part. As your own article states, she won't see a dime of that money.
Yup, pretty damn sad when humans kill their children so they don't have to take responsibility. But we allow it to happen every day and some of us completely support it.Someone just turned this thread up to 11.

[Tgo01]

Half an hour isn't the same as eight hours, and there's no evidence it was a premeditated plot on her part. As your own article states, she won't see a dime of that money.

There's no evidence it was premeditated on her part? She admitted she did it on purpose, sure sounds like premeditation.

Also you're downplaying this situation because it was "only" 30 minutes? In Latrin land it's not really child abuse unless the child dies.

Also you're delusional if you think this lady isn't going to be spending this money. How is anyone going to prove anything in this regards?

[Latrinsorm]

There's no evidence it was premeditated on her part? She admitted she did it on purpose, sure sounds like premeditation.Purposive and premeditated are not synonyms. The latter implies the former, but not vice versa. Capisce?
Also you're downplaying this situation because it was "only" 30 minutes? In Latrin land it's not really child abuse unless the child dies.I'm not downplaying anything, I'm explaining how the situations are different and therefore warrant different punishments.
Also you're delusional if you think this lady isn't going to be spending this money. How is anyone going to prove anything in this regards?You're asking me of all people how I would prove what someone does? What the heck do you think the answer is?

[Tgo01]

Purposive and premeditated are not synonyms.

Premeditated and deliberate are synonyms and deliberate and purposive are synonyms.

I'll give you a chance to back out now, Latrin. Only cause I like ya.


I'm not downplaying anything, I'm explaining how the situations are different and therefore warrant different punishments.

You're absolutely right; the guy should be charged with murder and this woman should be charged with child abuse. Nowhere did I say she should be charged with murder, not sure where you got that from :/


You're asking me of all people how I would prove what someone does? What the heck do you think the answer is?

Exactly. No universal surveillance means this lady could be spending all of the donations she gets on herself and no one would ever know.

[Latrinsorm]

Premeditated and deliberate are synonyms and deliberate and purposive are synonyms.

I'll give you a chance to back out now, Latrin. Only cause I like ya.

You're absolutely right; the guy should be charged with murder and this woman should be charged with child abuse. Nowhere did I say she should be charged with murder, not sure where you got that from :/"So while this guy is being demonized and charged with murder for purposefully leaving his child in a car (which I agree with by the way, don't misread that), this woman, who purposefully left her 2 children in a car, is not only receiving a slap on the wrist but she has also received over 100,000 dollars in donations for it."

You were equating the situations. I explained you're error. (You might think that's a typo. Wrong again (http://1morecastle.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/I-am-error.jpg).)
Exactly. No universal surveillance means this lady could be spending all of the donations she gets on herself and no one would ever know.We've already implemented USA in border states I meaaaannn ummm haha how 'bout them Yankees?

[Tgo01]

"So while this guy is being demonized and charged with murder for purposefully leaving his child in a car (which I agree with by the way, don't misread that), this woman, who purposefully left her 2 children in a car, is not only receiving a slap on the wrist but she has also received over 100,000 dollars in donations for it."

You were equating the situations. I explained you're error. (You might think that's a typo. Wrong again (http://1morecastle.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/I-am-error.jpg).)

I gave you a chance to back out...now you just done unleashed the hurricane!

I was questioning why this woman received a slap on the wrist and 100,000 dollars in donations for doing the exact same thing, just with different results. Nowhere did I even indicate she should have been charged with murder.

Read. Count to 10. Then post.

[Latrinsorm]

Suppose one person pours a bucket of water in your house, and another person with sixteen buckets locks you in a car for 8 hours. Is that the same? No!

Give it up.

[Tgo01]

Suppose one person pours a bucket of water in your house, and another person with sixteen buckets locks you in a car for 8 hours. Is that the same? No!

Suppose someone slaps you lightly across the face and another person slaps you hard across the face. Are the actions the same? Yes. Are the results the same? Depending on how much of a glass jaw you have, no.


Give it up.

You're outta your league, Latrin. Put up your dukes!

[Latrinsorm]

Suppose someone slaps you lightly across the face and another person slaps you hard across the face. Are the actions the same?No. Adverbs modify verbs.

They stopped the fight, Terry. You're swinging at the ref. You're punch drunk. Go home.

[Tgo01]

No. Adverbs modify verbs.

Now you're just grasping at straws. Your entire argument is based on the fact that the man left the child in the car for 8 hours. That's not what's horrible about his case. What's horrible is that he left his child in the car. Period. The fact that it was hot just made the entire situation worse and the fact that the child ultimately died made the situation infinitely worse.

Your argument seems to be that children die at the 8 hour mark therefore what this woman did was only 1/16th as bad.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_lRg8MsB0k

[crb]

Some of this is an overreaction. I have kids, I take it seriously, but mine are still in car seats.

Some woman was arrested for leaving an 11 year old in a car, an 11 year old who can operate door locks mind you.

Another one was arrested for leaving younger kids in a car... with the car on (locked) and the air conditioning on... and their aunt watching from her own car (with her own kids) in the next parking spot over.

It reminds me a little bit of the gun hysteria and kids being suspended for having a plastic lego gun about the size of a pinto bean in their pocket. Everyone needs a dose of common sense.

[waywardgs]

Now you're just grasping at straws. Your entire argument is based on the fact that the man left the child in the car for 8 hours. That's not what's horrible about his case. What's horrible is that he left his child in the car. Period. The fact that it was hot just made the entire situation worse and the fact that the child ultimately died made the situation infinitely worse.

Your argument seems to be that children die at the 8 hour mark therefore what this woman did was only 1/16th as bad.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_lRg8MsB0k

Huh? What's horrible is that he murdered his child. The method is irrelevant.

[Tgo01]

Huh? What's horrible is that he murdered his child. The method is irrelevant.

Leaving his child in the car unattended is horrible too.

Why is there even a debate about this?

[waywardgs]

Leaving his child in the car unattended is horrible too.

Why is there even a debate about this?

I don't understand why you're putting the two situations in the same ballpark. It isn't even the same game.

[Tgo01]

I don't understand why you're putting the two situations in the same ballpark. It isn't even the same game.

We all seem to agree that killing people is bad. We are all also aware that leaving a child unattended in a hot car will lead to death eventually. Yet we don't all seem to agree that purposefully leaving a child unattended in a hot car is bad.

I don't see where the disconnect is.

[waywardgs]

We all seem to agree that killing people is bad. We are all also aware that leaving a child unattended in a hot car will lead to death eventually. Yet we don't all seem to agree that purposefully leaving a child unattended in a hot car is bad.

I don't see where the disconnect is.

If he shot his kid, there'd be no discussion about another person who just shot their kid a little bit. He used heat as a tool to kill his kid. Leaving your child in a car isn't ok, but it's a different discussion than premeditated murder. You can be a little neglected, you can be a little abused, or a lot, but you can't be a little murdered or just a little dead. It's a binary equation. The tool is irrelevant.

[JackWhisper]

There are only 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[Methais]

There are only 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/5f25a9504ec74253867742e3d1d9f582/tumblr_mynbj3bZl31rra86mo1_1280.jpg

[JackWhisper]

Neil Diamond doesn't look at explosions.
He's a cool guy.

[Latrinsorm]

We all seem to agree that killing people is bad. We are all also aware that leaving a child unattended in a hot car will lead to death eventually. Yet we don't all seem to agree that purposefully leaving a child unattended in a hot car is bad.

I don't see where the disconnect is.Not giving a child food will lead to death eventually. It does not follow that not giving a child food for half an hour is attempted premeditated murder, or even attempted murder, or even child abuse.

[Tgo01]

Not giving a child food will lead to death eventually. It does not follow that not giving a child food for half an hour is attempted premeditated murder, or even attempted murder, or even child abuse.

It does not follow that not giving a child food for 8 hours will lead to death or premeditated murder either so...it's like you're comparing apples to kumquats.

[Ker_Thwap]

It does not follow that not giving a child food for 8 hours will lead to death or premeditated murder either so...it's like you're comparing apples to kumquats.

Here's the deal. We can all agree that leaving a child in a hot car is bad. Fine, we all agree with you.

But, you compared a woman who was at a job interview trying to build a better life for her family, who left her kids in a car, with the full expectation that they'd be fine for half an hour... with a man/couple who didn't want their child anymore, because the little boy interfered with their social lives, researched how to kill the kid, followed through on that murder plan, and even checked midway through the process to see if it was working.

I'm a jaded old man, and even I'd be tempted to toss a few dollars to this woman in the hopes she can get her act together and better care for her children. One is deserving of empathy, even though she did something stupid. One is deserving of hatred.

[Tgo01]

But, you compared a woman who was at a job interview trying to build a better life for her family, who left her kids in a car, with the full expectation that they'd be fine for half an hour...

So endangering your child's life is to be rewarded as long as you have a sob story.

[JackWhisper]

Sadly, I'm with TGO on this.

Guy leaves a gun out, kid shoots himself. Life in prison.

Guy pulls guns out to sell at a yard sale to make money so his family survives, kid shoots himself. Kickstarter for the guy? WTF?

Nonsensical. Being an irresponsible parent is across the board stupid. Whether you have the best of intentions or the worst of inclinations, you are being a bad parent. Use a condom, or use an adoption agency. Or, if you're the sobbing mommy who left her kid for a half hour for a job, get a fucking daycare for a half day. Or, use your sob story, and sell it bringing your kid to the interview. People love that shit, probably.

[Ker_Thwap]

So endangering your child's life is to be rewarded as long as you have a sob story.

No. Who said that? Oh, you did, not me!

It's not about the sob story. It's not about the "reward." No one donated money saying "great job being an idiot risking your kid's health, take my money!" One would assume they donated money so that single parents without nearby resources might have... resources, so that this never happens again.

It's about the intention. That's all. One intends to kill his kid, the other has no such intention, but managed to put them at risk despite her good intentions.

As a divorced parent with no nearby resources, I've had to juggle two small children and a trunk load of groceries up three flights of stairs to an apartment. It's like solving that wolf/goat/grain puzzle across the river. Do you leave your sleeping children safely buckled in car seats for three minutes at a time, or roaming free in the third floor apartment with the windows open?

[Latrinsorm]

No. Who said that? Oh, you did, not me!

It's not about the sob story. It's not about the "reward." No one donated money saying "great job being an idiot risking your kid's health, take my money!" One would assume they donated money so that single parents without nearby resources might have... resources, so that this never happens again.

It's about the intention. That's all. One intends to kill his kid, the other has no such intention, but managed to put them at risk despite her good intentions.

As a divorced parent with no nearby resources, I've had to juggle two small children and a trunk load of groceries up three flights of stairs to an apartment. It's like solving that wolf/goat/grain puzzle across the river. Do you leave your sleeping children safely buckled in car seats for three minutes at a time, or roaming free in the third floor apartment with the windows open?So wait... your kids eat live goats? What the hell's the matter with you?

[Ker_Thwap]

So wait... your kids eat live goats? What the hell's the matter with you?

You misunderstood, they eat live wolves. Top of the food chain baby!

[Tgo01]

No. Who said that? Oh, you did, not me!

She endangered her kid's lives, she received over 100k. Sure sounds like a rewards.

As far as her trying her best given her circumstances; parents manage to properly care for their children without endangering their lives everyday. If millions of other people can do it, why can't she?

[Tgo01]

Sadly, I'm with TGO on this.

Sadly? You should love being on my side :(

[waywardgs]

Sadly, I'm with TGO on this.

Guy leaves a gun out, kid shoots himself. Life in prison.

Guy pulls guns out to sell at a yard sale to make money so his family survives, kid shoots himself. Kickstarter for the guy? WTF?

Nonsensical. Being an irresponsible parent is across the board stupid. Whether you have the best of intentions or the worst of inclinations, you are being a bad parent. Use a condom, or use an adoption agency. Or, if you're the sobbing mommy who left her kid for a half hour for a job, get a fucking daycare for a half day. Or, use your sob story, and sell it bringing your kid to the interview. People love that shit, probably.

Out of curiousity would you still be up for charges if nothing at all happens with those guns in your scenarios?

[Tisket]

But we allow it to happen every day and some of us completely support it.

Every day? Hardly. Average yearly heatstroke-related deaths of children left in a hot car over the last sixteen years: 38

Amazingly infrequent.

That said, it's sad that some people are more likely to remember to grab their cell phone than their infant. Maybe they should leave their cell in the back seat. That way they have to go back there to get it when they reach their destination. And there is the added bonus of keeping them off the phone while driving.

edit: link where I got the average: http://www.ggweather.com/heat/

[Tgo01]

Out of curiousity would you still be up for charges if nothing at all happens with those guns in your scenarios?

What if the kids do fire the gun in these scenarios but no one was shot, does no charges sound right?

[Methais]

A friend of mine in high school used to talk about how his mom would leave him and his brother in the car while went into the bar and got hammered when they were younger.

But it was at night, therefore temperatures were cooler, so that makes it ok.

[waywardgs]

What if the kids do fire the gun in these scenarios but no one was shot, does no charges sound right?

I dunno, what are the laws about that sort of thing anyway?

[Ker_Thwap]

She endangered her kid's lives, she received over 100k. Sure sounds like a rewards.

As far as her trying her best given her circumstances; parents manage to properly care for their children without endangering their lives everyday. If millions of other people can do it, why can't she?

Why can't she care for her children? How the hell should I know? Maybe the father took off, and cleared out the bank account on the day she got fired from her job, leaving her a thousand miles from her family? Would you like me to make up a sob story? Why does poverty exist? Maybe she didn't have the resources to properly care for her children, but she was at a job interview, not the nail salon. Doesn't that count for something?

I answered your first question, it's about intent. I'll happily compare her to the murderer, but in the end that comparison is never going to equate a stupid poor parent going to a job interview for 30 minutes, to a stone cold killer.

As for the donations and your second question, that's a charity thing. It's kind of counter productive to donate your funds to people who have resources, so it tends to go towards people who have found themselves in difficult circumstances and don't have the resources to deal with it. (Even if it's their own stupid choices that put them in those circumstances) I get it, you don't want money to go to people who have made stupid mistakes.

In general, I agree with you, I don't like handing addicts money, I don't like to hand failed businessmen money. I think there are a lot of stupid charities in the world, that don't address the root cause and essentially waste that money. I'm more a fan of education, and bootstrappy charities, helping those who help themselves. But, no one is forcing anyone to donate to charities that don't fit our particular ethics.

If this woman was your neighbor, and you knew she was struggling, and doing her best, might you just offer to hand her a $20 bill to hire a sitter for an hour if you knew she was looking for a job? Sure you would. If you knew she was a leech, wasting money and living large, then you wouldn't. I think you're making huge assumptions on why she did what she did.

[Tgo01]

My question wasn't why she's in the position she's in; my question was why can't she take care of her children without endangering their lives. As far as her story about being homeless and jobless; the police say she already had a job and had a residence, sure sounds like she was making up a story to get out of the crime she committed.

Also I'm not making up any assumptions about her. She broke the law and is trying to get out of it, just like 99.99% of the people who break the law. For some reason it worked out for her so well she received 100k in donations.

If this was a story about a mother who starved her children for 3 weeks this wouldn't be up for debate. There would probably be a few comments about how she should have sold her car to feed her kids.

[Ker_Thwap]

My question wasn't why she's in the position she's in; my question was why can't she take care of her children without endangering their lives. As far as her story about being homeless and jobless; the police say she already had a job and had a residence, sure sounds like she was making up a story to get out of the crime she committed.

Also I'm not making up any assumptions about her. She broke the law and is trying to get out of it, just like 99.99% of the people who break the law. For some reason it worked out for her so well she received 100k in donations.

If this was a story about a mother who starved her children for 3 weeks this wouldn't be up for debate. There would probably be a few comments about how she should have sold her car to feed her kids.

Again, I know nothing about the woman. I wasn't aware she made up the story about being homeless. Then fine, it's a sucky charity. Still not in the same league as the "plotting and going through with murdering your child, so you can get laid" man. You should have started a new thread about sucky charities and bad parenting, because that's the biggest problem here.

[Latrinsorm]

You misunderstood, they eat live wolves. Top of the food chain baby!Oh okay good, for a second there my faith in humanity was shaken.
My question wasn't why she's in the position she's in; my question was why can't she take care of her children without endangering their lives....ah, there it goes again.
Every day? Hardly. Average yearly heatstroke-related deaths of children left in a hot car over the last sixteen years: 38

Amazingly infrequent.

That said, it's sad that some people are more likely to remember to grab their cell phone than their infant. Maybe they should leave their cell in the back seat. That way they have to go back there to get it when they reach their destination. And there is the added bonus of keeping them off the phone while driving.He's talking about abortion.

[Tgo01]

ah, there it goes again.

Why do you dislike reasonable questions?

[Tisket]

He's talking about abortion.

That's what I get for cherry picking a thread.

My point still stands.

[Ker_Thwap]

Why do you dislike reasonable questions?

Because you keep expanding the scope of your initial post. Seriously. Why she can't care for her child is a massive topic. Poverty, culture, region, education, mental health concerns... all these things and more would have to be addressed specific to how they impact her situation.

Rather than asking us why? You should be asking yourself why. Is there any scenario where you could say to yourself, "Gee, her life kind of sucked, maybe that's why she took a small risk with her children in order to go to a job interview." Should we just put a bullet into her brain because there's no conceivable reason in your universe why she'd make that decision?

[JackWhisper]

Endangering my son for even a second is unacceptable in my eyes. In any situation. No, Ker_Thwap, there's absolutely no conceivable reason in my universe why a parent would make that decision and be okay with it. Every situation you can bring up about bettering a child's life, or anything like that, will be rebutted by danger not being acceptable in a parent's eyes. Any acceptance means an unwillingness to do something extreme, like ask a church pastor to watch your child. Which they do here in California. Even if you are not of the denomination the church is. That's just one option other than leaving your kid in a hot ass car.

And someone saying 'they'd die if you don't do XXX' is just ignorant.

[Tisket]

Any acceptance means an unwillingness to do something extreme, like ask a church pastor to watch your child. Which they do here in California. Even if you are not of the denomination the church is.

I suppose it's okay to leave a young child with a strange man as long as he is a pastor. Just as long as he's not Catholic.

[Gelston]

Death happened. The person that died was in a state that they could not save them self. They were a minor in the care of someone. That is 3rd degree murder in many states.

[Tgo01]

I feel it's a slap in the face to the parents who are struggling yet still manage to not endanger their children's lives, or at least not purposefully endanger their children's lives, by saying this woman gets a pass for whatever her hardships may be. If this were a common thing for some reason, like "the man" was just keeping every parent down to the point where this was the norm I would probably be a little more sympathetic. But seeing as how this very much isn't the norm well then...yeah...and then to say "Hey, here's 100k!" while all of those parents who don't put their child's life in danger...what sort of message are we sending the world?

Remember; only YOU can prevent forest fires.

[Gelston]

Sorry, not 3rd. It is 2nd degree.

[Gelston]

I don't care if the person was 1 or a mentally retarded 40 year old. If you are under the care of some one and they fail in that care and cause death, it is no less than 3rd degree murder.

[waywardgs]

I feel it's a slap in the face to the parents who are struggling yet still manage to not endanger their children's lives, or at least not purposefully endanger their children's lives, by saying this woman gets a pass for whatever her hardships may be. If this were a common thing for some reason, like "the man" was just keeping every parent down to the point where this was the norm I would probably be a little more sympathetic. But seeing as how this very much isn't the norm well then...yeah...and then to say "Hey, here's 100k!" while all of those parents who don't put their child's life in danger...what sort of message are we sending the world?

Remember; only YOU can prevent forest fires.


You do realize that the court system didn't award this person a hundred thousand dollars, right?

[Tgo01]

You do realize that the court system didn't award this person a hundred thousand dollars, right?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/7b31dd273547dd994315d4fb7675765a/tumblr_mgqn2xw3C91r5ls6go1_500.gif

[Methais]

Endangering my son for even a second is unacceptable in my eyes.

Anytime you drive around with your kid in your car you're technically endangering him.

[JackWhisper]

My son doesn't go to school yet, and we walk to the park for his exercise. I live in a nice large house with a nice large fence that keeps out the nice large ethnically diverse neighborhood. And his school is less than a half mile away. We will be walking to school.

About the only time he gets in a car is when we are headed to the doctor's office, or on some random playdate thing. I keep that at a minimum.

Hermits unite!

[Ker_Thwap]

Endangering my son for even a second is unacceptable in my eyes. In any situation. No, Ker_Thwap, there's absolutely no conceivable reason in my universe why a parent would make that decision and be okay with it. Every situation you can bring up about bettering a child's life, or anything like that, will be rebutted by danger not being acceptable in a parent's eyes. Any acceptance means an unwillingness to do something extreme, like ask a church pastor to watch your child. Which they do here in California. Even if you are not of the denomination the church is. That's just one option other than leaving your kid in a hot ass car.

And someone saying 'they'd die if you don't do XXX' is just ignorant.

I have to admit, I've led you down the garden path so to speak. There's nothing in my universe that would have let me leave my princesses in a hot car either. But, we endanger our children every single day, otherwise they don't grow up. We still put them in carseats, but we subject them to the risk of a random traffic accidents, we let them play on the playground equipment. We hope we're smart enough to limit the risks to an acceptable level.

What I'm suggesting is that we look at HER universe, her reality, her circumstances. Her universe is not your universe. Maybe she's not very bright, maybe she didn't have access to the internet to learn about child care options, maybe her state doesn't have free child care options like your state has, maybe she was kicked out of high school because she got pregnant, maybe she turned the AC on high and assumed the temperature wouldn't rise all that much in just a few minutes. Maybe she felt a few minutes was an acceptable level of risk.

Maybe you and I have all sorts of small advantages, that she just never had. Maybe we had less advantages, but there was some spark, some inspiration where we decided to be better than our surroundings, better than our upbringing and focus our lives toward making the next generation stronger. Maybe on that one day that the sun shone on you and you saw that touching scene of exemplary parenting, and decided to model your life on that scene, she was being told to shut up and know your place in the world.

Should we judge her actions, and the results of them, hell yes. The woman endangered her children, that's the bottom line. She has to pay the fine, serve her sentence, maybe lose her kids for a while, whatever the law and the courts decide. The courts aren't inflexible however, they might decide, first offense, generally trying to improve her life, take a class on parenting, get yourself a better job, arrange for day care possibilities, and we'd love to see you reunited with your kids. She's not necessarily a lost cause, and I see no need to demonize her.

Can I empathize with this guy who killed his little boy? Not in a million years. I don't care how he was raised, I don't care what advantages he had or didn't have. His intent was to kill his child, to get laid more. Her intent was to take a small risk with her children's safety to ultimately better their lives.

[Ker_Thwap]

I feel it's a slap in the face to the parents who are struggling yet still manage to not endanger their children's lives, or at least not purposefully endanger their children's lives, by saying this woman gets a pass for whatever her hardships may be. If this were a common thing for some reason, like "the man" was just keeping every parent down to the point where this was the norm I would probably be a little more sympathetic. But seeing as how this very much isn't the norm well then...yeah...and then to say "Hey, here's 100k!" while all of those parents who don't put their child's life in danger...what sort of message are we sending the world?

Remember; only YOU can prevent forest fires.

You need to get it out of your head that it's a reward. No one said "great job on almost killing your kids, try harder next time, here's some money." No one. You're looking at it in a seriously simplistic manner.

They said, "Gee, your life kind of sucks, you could use some help in learning to be a better parent, on improving your life situation. Then, you'd know it's not acceptable to risk your children in this manner."

Do I think it's a potentially stupid charity? Probably. But let's be insanely presumptuous and pretend that I get to disperse that money to this mother. I know I could improve her life, and the life of her family with that money. Parenting classes, introduce her to positive parenting role models, to other parents struggling and succeeding. Maybe a change of neighborhood, so she can live in a nice house with a fence within walking distance of a school. Job training, college course, and even safe daycare, so she can sustain the nicer home in the long term. Yeah, I think I could do a lot of good with that money. Then again, maybe she'll make even better choices than I can? This belief is why people donated money to her. Not as a reward.

But yeah, I'm jaded. I suspect she'll burn the money on short term luxuries. Only time will tell.

[Latrinsorm]

Endangering my son for even a second is unacceptable in my eyes. In any situation. No, Ker_Thwap, there's absolutely no conceivable reason in my universe why a parent would make that decision and be okay with it. Every situation you can bring up about bettering a child's life, or anything like that, will be rebutted by danger not being acceptable in a parent's eyes. Any acceptance means an unwillingness to do something extreme, like ask a church pastor to watch your child. Which they do here in California. Even if you are not of the denomination the church is. That's just one option other than leaving your kid in a hot ass car.

And someone saying 'they'd die if you don't do XXX' is just ignorant.You endanger your son every day. You have decided that the risks you subject him to are not that significant (the chances he opens the wall and touches a live wire, the chances he gets in the knife drawer, the chances he logs onto the Gemstone IV Players' Corner), just as the woman in question decided that the risks of being in a car for half an hour weren't that significant.

Both situations are clearly distinct from the situation where a person subjects their child to risk of harm with the intent of killing them. What I'm saying is you should start a kickstarter and get that $$$, bro.

[Tgo01]

You endanger your son every day. You have decided that the risks you subject him to are not that significant (the chances he opens the wall and touches a live wire, the chances he gets in the knife drawer, the chances he logs onto the Gemstone IV Players' Corner), just as the woman in question decided that the risks of being in a car for half an hour weren't that significant.

Wouldn't a more apt analogy be if the parent put the knife drawer on the floor next to the child? Because otherwise you are once again comparing apples to kumquats. Stop that.

We also need to stop with the "only 30 minutes!" argument as if the woman knew for a fact that it was only going to be for 30 minutes. She had no idea how long she would have been kept waiting for the interview to start nor how long the interview process would have been.

I really wonder if she would have received 100k and all of these posts in her defense if the interview ended up being 2 hours and the children died? I could be wrong but my crystal ball says all of these people would instead be saying "She should have known better!"

[Latrinsorm]

Wouldn't a more apt analogy be if the parent put the knife drawer on the floor next to the child? Because otherwise you are once again comparing apples to kumquats. Stop that.

We also need to stop with the "only 30 minutes!" argument as if the woman knew for a fact that it was only going to be for 30 minutes. She had no idea how long she would have been kept waiting for the interview to start nor how long the interview process would have been.

I really wonder if she would have received 100k and all of these posts in her defense if the interview ended up being 2 hours and the children died? I could be wrong but my crystal ball says all of these people would instead be saying "She should have known better!"I don't know how many job interviews you 1%ers go on, but you're very rarely physically restrained for them. Had the interview dragged on, she could easily have excused herself.

[Tgo01]

Had the interview dragged on, she could easily have excused herself.

I guess along that same train of thought the woman could have called and asked to reschedule the interview and avoided all of this.

[Latrinsorm]

I guess along that same train of thought the woman could have called and asked to reschedule the interview and avoided all of this.Asked, sure. Had that request resolved to her desire, not necessarily. Whereas, vis a vis, her ability to resolve her desire to get up and walk away from an interview is indisputable.

Forget it, Terry, you've got no frame of reference.

[Tgo01]

Asked, sure. Had that request resolved to her desire, not necessarily. Whereas, vis a vis, her ability to resolve her desire to get up and walk away from an interview is indisputable.

So...in Latrin land you can leave in the middle of the interview whenever you want but you can't refuse to go to said interview...

The former is true in the real world so I'll say you're only 50% living in Latrin land.


Forget it, Terry, you've got no frame of reference.

Hey! I'll have you know I've given birth to three babies and I've had over 9000 job interviews.

[Tisket]

That's what I get for cherry picking a thread.

My point still stands.

Touche:

Thread: Father leaves child in hot car (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?91008-Father-leaves-child-in-hot-car&p=1682183#post1682183)
your point still stands but your cherry has been busted for a millennia

[Latrinsorm]

So...in Latrin land you can leave in the middle of the interview whenever you want but you can't refuse to go to said interview...

The former is true in the real world so I'll say you're only 50% living in Latrin land.Don't you get tired moving those goalposts all day? And of being wrong all the time?

[Stretch]

Every time I see Latrinsorm's user name, I think storm of toilets. Could be the working title for an ASoFaI book.

[Tgo01]

Don't you get tired moving those goalposts all day? And of being wrong all the time?

I know you are but what am I?

[Tisket]

Every time I see Latrinsorm's user name, I think storm of toilets. Could be the working title for an ASoFaI book.

That's a joke that's at least a decade old.

[Tgo01]

This baby died after only 2 hours in a hot car. (http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/04/us/north-carolina-parents-charged-in-hot-car-death/index.html?hpt=hp_t2&icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl38|sec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D510995)

Latrin is going to have to update his argument from 8 hours = bad to 2 hours = bad.

Looks like that 30 minute mother was cutting it close there.

[Taernath]

Babies Not As Durable As Once Thought, Scientists Say

[Tgo01]

Babies Not As Durable As Once Thought, Scientists Say

Exactly!