U.S Marine files lawsuit against government after illegal detainment

[Androidpk]

For those that didn't hear about this last year this Marine veteran posted some anti-Obama posts on his Facebook page and had authorities show up at his house, put him in handcuffs and took him to a mental hospital for a 30 day evaluation. The police didn't even charge him with anything and they violated his 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th amendment in the process. A judge ruled this unconstitutional and he was released about a week later. He's now filing a lawsuit as a result of all of this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdiYfvY_2-4

[Taernath]

I don't know. On one hand you don't detain someone for making a garden variety 'I hate Obummer' post, but on the other hand you don't want to ignore something that might be signs of something more serious. So, a lot depends on what he was actually saying. The closest I could get to some kind of threat was "Sharpen my axe; I'm here to sever heads" (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/21/brandon-j-raub-marine-detained_n_1817484.html) and talking about how he was going to kickstart the revolution. Every other source I saw linked to facebook posts which have since been taken down (this all happened apparently 2 years ago)

[Tgo01]

The closest I could get to some kind of threat was "Sharpen my axe; I'm here to sever heads" (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/21/brandon-j-raub-marine-detained_n_1817484.html) and talking about how he was going to kickstart the revolution.

If that's all it takes to get thrown into a mental hospital these days I would be very nervous if I were a rapper right now :/

[Androidpk]

If that's all it takes to get thrown into a mental hospital these days I would be very nervous if I were a rapper right now :/


You just quoted someone who was quoting someone that said something possibly dangerous. Authorities inbound..

[Tgo01]

You just quoted someone who was quoting someone that said something possibly dangerous. Authorities inbound..

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/sm/custom/u/m/8438c05ffa.jpg

Fuck!

[JackWhisper]

Holy shit TGO I laughed my ass off at that gif. ROFL.

[Latrinsorm]

Involuntary commitment doesn't require charges being filed, though, only a court order (for stays of this length). Not every handcuffing is an arrest.

[Gelston]

Involuntary commitment doesn't require charges being filed, though, only a court order (for stays of this length). Not every handcuffing is an arrest.

Did you ignore "A judge ruled this unconstitutional"?

[waywardgs]

Did you ignore "A judge ruled this unconstitutional"?

Hindsight is 20/20, but threatening the president is a crime. That's obviously how they took it.

[Tgo01]

Hindsight is 20/20, but threatening the president is a crime. That's obviously how they took it.

That would be kind of a chicken shit way to go about this if that was the case.

If they wanted to charge him with threatening the president then charge him with threatening the president and they can make their case in court.

[waywardgs]

That would be kind of a chicken shit way to go about this if that was the case.

If they wanted to charge him with threatening the president then charge him with threatening the president and they can make their case in court.

Or maybe they did him a favor by NOT charging him and just sent him to get evaluated instead.

[waywardgs]

Either way, the op's insinuation that it was just some random anti-obama stuff that got him locked up is a little paranoid. If everyone who was talking shit about obama was getting dragged away, half this board would be in shackles. Hell, half the nation. I don't see any groundbreaking malice here.

[Tgo01]

Or maybe they did him a favor by NOT charging him and just sent him to get evaluated instead.

No one should be looking at this case as the government doing this man a favor :/

[Androidpk]

They didn't have any evidence and certainly didn't have a warrant. Here is one of his "incendiary" comments that he posted on Facebook - ""The United States was meant to lead the charge against injustice, but through our example not our force. People do not respond to having liberty and freedom forced on them"

[waywardgs]

They didn't have any evidence and certainly didn't have a warrant. Here is one of his "incendiary" comments that he posted on Facebook - ""The United States was meant to lead the charge against injustice, but through our example not our force. People do not respond to having liberty and freedom forced on them"

Another one had to do with him looking to sever heads with an axe, no? That may be fine for GS, but it doesn't fly when you start talking about the president. And last I checked, you don't need a warrant to look at someone's Facebook page.

[Tgo01]

Another one had to do with him looking to sever heads with an axe, no? That may be fine for GS, but it doesn't fly when you start talking about the president.

Was the severing heads part directed towards the president?

Even so it is not enough to threaten the president; it has to be clear that the person making the threat intends to carry out said threat.

[Androidpk]

Another one had to do with him looking to sever heads with an axe, no? That may be fine for GS, but it doesn't fly when you start talking about the president. And last I checked, you don't need a warrant to look at someone's Facebook page.

Oh god, heaven forbid someone quotes a song on his facebook page!!1


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAzjNZc0EqU

[Tgo01]

Oh god, heaven forbid someone quotes a song on his facebook page!!1


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAzjNZc0EqU

Oh wait, he quoted a rap song?

Never mind, I withdraw all of my support of him. Throw him back in the mental ward, please.

[waywardgs]

Oh wait, he quoted a rap song?

Never mind, I withdraw all of my support of him. Throw him back in the mental ward, please.

Having bad taste in music is not a crime, but that guy's face tats should be.

In any event, I bet this guy wins a settlement and lives happily ever after with a new condo and porsche.

[Taernath]

Was the severing heads part directed towards the president?

Even so it is not enough to threaten the president; it has to be clear that the person making the threat intends to carry out said threat.

I don't think it really matters who it's directed at. Police and psychologists always get accused of not paying attention to the warning signs before someone goes on a rampage, this time they seem to have intervened before it (may have) escalated. Either way they get blamed. I'm still wanting to see what it was he wrote that got him in trouble.

[waywardgs]

There's always going to be a point of friction between free speech and law enforcement. This guy got caught in the middle. It happens. Doesn't mean the sky is falling or that obumster is gunning for his critics.

[Tgo01]

I don't think it really matters who it's directed at. Police and psychologists always get accused of not paying attention to the warning signs before someone goes on a rampage, this time they seem to have intervened before it (may have) escalated. Either way they get blamed. I'm still wanting to see what it was he wrote that got him in trouble.

I have no problem with law enforcement intervening in situations like this; I just dislike the flimsy pretext they gave for throwing the man in a mental hospital.

All they need is a "mental health professional" to recommend putting him in the hospital and that's good enough? Did the mental health professional even examine him in person? What exactly constitutes a "mental health professional"? Aren't judges supposed to sign off on this sort of thing? Does anyone have answers to these questions?

[Gelston]

I feel if they felt there was a threat from him, they should have monitored him. I agree with playing it safe, but not when you step on someone's constitutional rights. I'd have had no problems if they sat out there with a police car for 30 days and watched him... What kind of world is it when they can detain you for a month with no charges though? Does this seem in any way right?

[Taernath]

Apparently it was a state law that allowed them to do this. Who knows whether that will hold up in court.

[Gelston]

Apparently it was a state law that allowed them to do this. Who knows whether that will hold up in court.

Judge said unconstiutional, so apparently it didn't.

[Androidpk]

Judge said unconstiutional, so apparently it didn't.


Pfft, semantics.

[Taernath]

Judge said unconstiutional, so apparently it didn't.

I don't think it was a Supreme Court judge who said that.

[Gelston]

I don't think it was a Supreme Court judge who said that.

It creates a precedence. The Supreme Court can't just go out and take the case unless it works up to them.

[Taernath]

It creates a precedence. The Supreme Court can't just go out and take the case unless it works up to them.

That was kinda my point. Lower circuit courts are fickle about stuff like this, and I don't think it's ended just because one judge said so. That being said I doubt it will make it to the Supreme Court.

[Gelston]

That was kinda my point. Lower circuit courts are fickle about stuff like this, and I don't think it's ended just because one judge said so. That being said I doubt it will make it to the Supreme Court.

That depends on if the powers that be decide to push it to the next level. As far as I am concerned, however, if they do not the effectively agree with the judge's decision. If they try to do this again, there is a precedence set and you'd need only point to that.

[Dendum]

First, the Rutherford institute is kind of like the right version of the ACLU, they have some interesting videos online especially the lawyer in that video John Whitehead. They are a very interesting group and I am glad they exist (just like I am glad the ACLU exists).

I don't know what behavior prompted the mental evaluation, it could have been something during the initial questioning, if you post things about killing presidents people do show up at your door, if you order pressure cookers and ball bearings and other innocuous things it is possible people show up at your door, should this be the world we live in? IDK, probably not, but it is. Probably best you don't act crazy during that process.

This lawsuit was dismissed, for whatever reason the judge who was presiding over the case against the government felt it wasn't warranted.

[Valthissa]

Not every handcuffing is an arrest.

you are exactly wrong

every handcuffing is an arrest, also known as detainment

not every arrest ends in charges being filed

[Latrinsorm]

Did you ignore "A judge ruled this unconstitutional"?There are a lot of unconstitutional things you can do to someone that aren't arrests without charges being filed. Until Andy gives us the full details of the case, it's a "I heard this guy said this happened to him".
you are exactly wrong

every handcuffing is an arrest, also known as detainment

not every arrest ends in charges being filedI heard my friend say one time he was handcuffed as a precautionary measure. What happened was he was a passenger in a car driven by his brother, and they were pulled over for some traffic violation. His brother happened to have a licensed firearm under the passenger seat, so he volunteered this to the officer and further volunteered (both) to wait outside the car in handcuffs while the officer did his officiating. They did, the traffic violation was processed, and they went on their way.

If you want to call that an arrest, I will be forced to call you a charlatan, sir.

[Valthissa]

There are a lot of unconstitutional things you can do to someone that aren't arrests without charges being filed. Until Andy gives us the full details of the case, it's a "I heard this guy said this happened to him".I heard my friend say one time he was handcuffed as a precautionary measure. What happened was he was a passenger in a car driven by his brother, and they were pulled over for some traffic violation. His brother happened to have a licensed firearm under the passenger seat, so he volunteered this to the officer and further volunteered (both) to wait outside the car in handcuffs while the officer did his officiating. They did, the traffic violation was processed, and they went on their way.

If you want to call that an arrest, I will be forced to call you a charlatan, sir.

If you volunteer to be placed in handcuffs, that's foreplay.

When a policeman handcuffs a citizen while they are on duty, that's an arrest. I really don't understand why you bothered to respond - your assertion - not every handcuffing is an arrest- is just factually incorrect and no amount of wriggling will make you appear less wrong.

I hear you're an academic so that explains you're inablility to admit being wrong (most of my friends are professors at William & Mary and they suffer from the same ailment).

Best Regards,

A. Charlatan

[Latrinsorm]

It is an interesting phenomenon: two people are quite certain they are right, even when they disagree. And suddenly, a horde of epithets appear! Troll, sheep, Jeril's new tack of dishonest, and now the most cutting of all... academic.

I don't suppose you'd appreciate Terry v. Ohio, and specifically its distinction between detention and arrest? I honestly didn't know about it, but it coheres with my buddy's anecdote pretty well, so bully for me. :)

[Androidpk]

Your friend is a complete fool for offering to be placed in cuffs just because he is carrying a gun. That sort of poor judgment discounts his story 142%.

[Warriorbird]

Detention without arrest can mostly certainly happen. Dude is still stupid.

[Gelston]

An arrest is the act of depriving a person of his or her liberty usually in relation to the purported investigation or prevention of crime and presenting (the arrestee) to a procedure as part of the criminal justice system.

If you are detained without liberty to leave, such as detained, that is arrest.

[Warriorbird]

An arrest is the act of depriving a person of his or her liberty usually in relation to the purported investigation or prevention of crime and presenting (the arrestee) to a procedure as part of the criminal justice system.

If you are detained without liberty to leave, such as detained, that is arrest.

The insane aren't typically arrested in a traditional sense.

[Latrinsorm]

Your friend is a complete fool for offering to be placed in cuffs just because he is carrying a gun. That sort of poor judgment discounts his story 142%.What's poor about it? I would say defusing a potential problem before it occurs is a hallmark of good judgment, wouldn't you?
An arrest is the act of depriving a person of his or her liberty usually in relation to the purported investigation or prevention of crime and presenting (the arrestee) to a procedure as part of the criminal justice system.

If you are detained without liberty to leave, such as detained, that is arrest.The Supreme Court apparently disagrees: "given the proper circumstances, such as those in this case, it seems to me the person may be briefly detained against his will while pertinent questions are directed to him. Of course, the person stopped is not obliged to answer, answers may not be compelled, and refusal to answer furnishes no basis for an arrest, although it may alert the officer to the need for continued observation."

[waywardgs]

Your friend is a complete fool for offering to be placed in cuffs just because he is carrying a gun. That sort of poor judgment discounts his story 142%.

Maybe he digs cuffs.

[Methais]

Another one had to do with him looking to sever heads with an axe, no? That may be fine for GS, but it doesn't fly when you start talking about the president. And last I checked, you don't need a warrant to look at someone's Facebook page.

In that case, we should go back and lock up everyone who talked about killing Bush, right?

[Gelston]

Was he allowed to leave? No. Was he under the legal custody and detained? Yes. He was arrested. Look up the roots of the word.

[waywardgs]

In that case, we should go back and lock up everyone who talked about killing Bush, right?

Threats against any president are taken seriously, yes. Are you saying you threatened president bush? Where do you live again?

[Methais]

if you post things about killing presidents people do show up at your door

I'm gonna go post about my time machine and how I'm going to go back in time and kill Lincoln just to see what happens.

[Gelston]

I'm gonna go post about my time machine and how I'm going to go back in time and kill Lincoln just to see what happens.

Secret Service didn't exist during Lincoln's time, so you are good.

[waywardgs]

I'm gonna go post about my time machine and how I'm going to go back in time and kill Lincoln just to see what happens.

Racist.

Edit: wait... Is Methais John Wilkes Booth??

[Gelston]

Racist.

You leave John Wilkes Methais alone.

[Latrinsorm]

Was he allowed to leave? No. Was he under the legal custody and detained? Yes. He was arrested. Look up the roots of the word.I think you will find that the legal system does not put a lot of emphasis on etymology. What it does put a lot of emphasis on are distinctions that seem overly subtle to the casual observer. If I may make a respectful suggestion, you bum-jumped ponce, this is one of those.

[waywardgs]

You leave John Wilkes Methais alone.

FU for being in b4 my edit.

[Stanley Burrell]

Secret Service didn't exist during Lincoln's time, so you are good.

AT THE BUZZER!

http://nowiknow.com/abraham-lincoln-created-the-secret-service-the-day-he-was-shot/

[Gelston]

I think you will find that the legal system does not put a lot of emphasis on etymology. What it does put a lot of emphasis on are distinctions that seem overly subtle to the casual observer. If I may make a respectful suggestion, you bum-jumped ponce, this is one of those.

He was detained and placed under the custody of the mental hospital. He was arrested.


An arrest may occur (1) by the touching or putting hands on the arrestee; (2) by any act that indicates an intention to take the arrestee into custody and that subjects the arrestee to the actual control and will of the person making the arrest; or (3) by the consent of the person to be arrested. There is no arrest where there is no restraint, and the restraint must be under real or pretended legal authority. However, the detention of a person need not be accompanied by formal words of arrest or a station house booking to constitute an arrest.

An arrest constitutes a seizure under the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, and thus the procedures by which a person is arrested must comply with the protections guaranteed by the Fourth Amendment or the arrest will be invalidated and any evidence seized during the arrest or confessions made after the arrest will typically be suppressed. The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that arrests made without a valid arrest warrant based on Probable Cause are presumptively invalid under the Fourth Amendment. Similarly, arrests made pursuant to a warrant that is later ruled defective may also be declared invalid, unless the officer in procuring the warrant and making the arrest acted in Good Faith.

This was declared an invalid arrest.

You can call it a "Detention" all you want. The fact is, they denied him his liberty for a period of one month and had him handcuffed while they transported him there. If that doesn't mean arrest to you, I honestly question your intelligence.

[Androidpk]

AT THE BUZZER!

http://nowiknow.com/abraham-lincoln-created-the-secret-service-the-day-he-was-shot/

STANLEY BURRELL

[waywardgs]

He was detained and placed under the custody of the mental hospital. He was arrested.


An arrest may occur (1) by the touching or putting hands on the arrestee;

Wanky wanky.

[waywardgs]

By the way, hospitals can put people on a 72 hr hold if the patient exhibits suicidal or harmful behavior. This is compulsory, and yet is not an "arrest."

[Warriorbird]

By the way, hospitals can put people on a 72 hr hold if the patient exhibits suicidal or harmful behavior. This is compulsory, and yet is not an "arrest."

It's what I was referring to. There's also places that make particular distinctions between detainment and arrest, whether it be right or wrong like, until recently, New York.

[Gelston]

It's what I was referring to. There's also places that make particular distinctions between detainment and arrest, whether it be right or wrong like, until recently, New York.

It depends on the state I'm sure, but from what I've read only a sworn peace officer can detain them at the facility, with recommendation by staff and notification to a judge. I'd consider that an arrest.

Again, charges do NOT need to be filed for something to be an arrest. I've known and heard of people who were arrested, booked in jail, and released the next day with no charges (and another case where they left someone locked up for months with no charges ever filed and the just sorta said "Our bad, we forgot about you")

[waywardgs]

It depends on the state I'm sure, but from what I've read only a sworn peace officer can detain them at the facility, with recommendation by staff and notification to a judge. I'd consider that an arrest.

Again, charges do NOT need to be filed for something to be an arrest. I've known and heard of people who were arrested, booked in jail, and released the next day with no charges (and another case where they left someone locked up for months with no charges ever filed and the just sorta said "Our bad, we forgot about you")

No judge, no officer. Lock the room. Maybe I was violating rights when I was an EMT though, haha. People are alive because of it though.

...there may have been police at the hospital.

[Gelston]

No judge, no officer. Lock the room. Maybe I was violating rights when I was an EMT though, haha. People are alive because of it though.

Citizens arrest, real thing btw. Beware false imprisonment charges and kidnapping charges though.

[Androidpk]

"Am I being detained?"

"Am I free to go?"

Words to live by.

[Gelston]

No response Latrine? I want one. Give me your best buddy. Tell me how this guy was not arrested. Tell me how it was completely legal.

Nothing? An American Citizen, hell, a Veteran was held against his will for 30 days... Give me a response. Tell me this isn't something totalitarian. Tell me this is something right.

[Androidpk]

He was set to be there for 30 days but his lawyer filed or something and went before the judge who found it unconstitutional and ordered him released immediately. He was there for about 7 days. Also, every media report I've seen on this case says he was arrested so Latrin should correct them in their error.

[Gelston]

He was set to be there for 30 days but his lawyer filed or something and went before the judge who found it unconstitutional and ordered him released immediately. He was there for about 7 days. Also, every media report I've seen on this case says he was arrested so Latrin should correct them in their error.

Good thing he had a lawyer right? Still, 7 days, locked up, against his will... When a Judge said it was unconstitutional... Latrine, seriously, tell me how this is the correct action. Tell me how this wasn't an illegal arrest. Tell me how this wasn't a kidnapping.

Would any of you like to be snatched up from your homes and locked up for 7 days with NO CHARGES filed?

This goes beyond left or right. That shit means nothing at all. They are all the same. We need to protect our right as American citizens.

[Androidpk]

Good thing he had a lawyer right? Still, 7 days, locked up, against his will... When a Judge said it was unconstitutional... Latrine, seriously, tell me how this is the correct action. Tell me how this wasn't an illegal arrest. Tell me how this wasn't a kidnapping.

Would any of you like to be snatched up from your homes and locked up for 7 days with NO CHARGES filed?

To be fair you're arguing against the dude that said he would willingly go to a containment camp if the feds ordered it.

[Gelston]

To be fair you're arguing against the dude that said he would willingly go to a containment camp if the feds ordered it.

He says a lot of stuff simply to be contrary. I'm sure if you made a thread saying the sky is blue he'd reply with "No, it is red".

He finally needs to realize.......


Basketball sucks. NCAA Football is better.

[Androidpk]

Someday I'll watch a NCAA football game. Someday.

[Gelston]

Someday I'll watch a NCAA football game. Someday.

Then you'll grow hairs on your testicles and become a man.

[Androidpk]

I wouldn't know where to start.

[Gelston]

I wouldn't know where to start.

Stop drinking PBR and drink real beers you dirty hipster.

[Androidpk]

Corona is a real beer!

[Elantari]

Then you'll grow hairs on your testicles and become a man.

There are quite a few eunuchs who are "more of a man" than you are. Here's a tip, loser. Lounging on the couch while drinking beer, sucking down Cheetos, and talking sports with a bunch of other losers who hoot and holler like chimpanzees doesn't make you a man. You'll never earn your man card. The best you can hope for is to fake being a man. I'm sure some losers will buy it.

[Gelston]

There are quite a few eunuchs who are "more of a man" than you are. Here's a tip, loser. Lounging on the couch while drinking beer, sucking down Cheetos, and talking sports with a bunch of other losers who hoot and holler like chimpanzees doesn't make you a man. You'll never earn your man card. The best you can hope for is to fake being a man. I'm sure some losers will buy it.

I know I tell no one to respond to this guy, but I just had to say... I served 9 years in the US Marine Corps Infantry. I served in both Iraq and Afghanistan. If I am not a man by any standards, I honestly don't give a fuck. Okay. Back to ignoring this troll.

[Parkbandit]

I know I tell no one to respond to this guy, but I just had to say... I served 9 years in the US Marine Corps Infantry. I served in both Iraq and Afghanistan. If I am not a man by any standards, I honestly don't give a fuck. Okay. Back to ignoring this troll.

You responded to him.

He won this round.

[Gelston]

You responded to him.

He won this round.

Last time I responded to him was about shoving my cock up his ass sideways.

[Wrathbringer]

I know I tell no one to respond to this guy, but I just had to say... I served 9 years in the US Marine Corps Infantry. I served in both Iraq and Afghanistan. If I am not a man by any standards, I honestly don't give a fuck. Okay. Back to ignoring this troll.

Not sure what this has to do with being a man. All this proves is that you're not allergic to peanuts, or if you are, you got a waiver. Obviously you do care or you wouldn't have responded. Okay, back to ignoring war stories.

[Gelston]

Not sure what this has to do with being a man. All this proves is that you're not allergic to peanuts, or if you are, you got a waiver. Obviously you do care or you wouldn't have responded. Okay, back to ignoring war stories.

We all pretty much know you are an irresponsible leech on society, so your opinion weighs in about as much as Elantari's.

[Parkbandit]

"He wasn't arrested, he was detained"...

Is that really the mindset of some people? Does using the word "detained" instead of "arrested" somehow make what happened to this guy ok in your mind?

[Wrathbringer]

We all pretty much know you are an irresponsible leech on society, so your opinion weighs in about as much as Elantari's.

Which is apparently a lot, as you're still defending your manhood on an internet forum.

[Wrathbringer]

"He wasn't arrested, he was detained"...

Is that really the mindset of some people? Does using the word "detained" instead of "arrested" somehow make what happened to this guy ok in your mind?

Semantics is latrinsorm' s stock in trade.

[Gelston]

Which is apparently a lot, as you're still defending your manhood on an internet forum.

What can I say, I give every dog their day.

[Latrinsorm]

No response Latrine? I want one. Give me your best buddy. Tell me how this guy was not arrested. Tell me how it was completely legal.

Nothing? An American Citizen, hell, a Veteran was held against his will for 30 days... Give me a response. Tell me this isn't something totalitarian. Tell me this is something right.If you want me to respond at 4 in the morning you are always going to be left wanting. You could look at this as a way to "win" every argument, I suppose.
It depends on the state I'm sure, but from what I've read only a sworn peace officer can detain them at the facility, with recommendation by staff and notification to a judge. I'd consider that an arrest.The point of contention has never been what J. "Gelly" Gelston considers, but what the Supreme Court considers.
Would any of you like to be snatched up from your homes and locked up for 7 days with NO CHARGES filed?I wouldn't like to be arrested under any circumstances. However, I recognize that a functioning society requires a justice system, and that justice system has to be allowed to do things that people don't like being subjected to. Of course it is also important to subject that justice system to unwavering scrutiny: to surveil it at all points of the universe, if you will.
Also, every media report I've seen on this case says he was arrested so Latrin should correct them in their error.There aren't anywhere near enough hours in the day to correct every mistaken media report.
To be fair you're arguing against the dude that said he would willingly go to a containment camp if the feds ordered it.I'm the dude that you said would willingly go to such a camp. I made no such statement.

.

All I said was that he wasn't arrested, and cited case law to back up the general distinction between detention and arrest. If you want to assume that everyone who disagrees with you categorically agrees with your opponent, you are being childish. I don't see enough information to decide either way.

[Elantari]

Not sure what this has to do with being a man. All this proves is that you're not allergic to peanuts, or if you are, you got a waiver. Obviously you do care or you wouldn't have responded. Okay, back to ignoring war stories.

It proves he's an obedient little clown who is great at following orders. His obvious homoeroticism was probably cultivated in boot camp by the drill sergeant who turned him out as a twink.

[Bartlett]

Seems to me that the argument over definitions of arrest and detainment are fairly irrelevant considering the thread title states the lawsuit is about illegal detainment. It was not until post #7 that someone erroneously injected the word arrest into the conversation.

That being said, this is pretty messed up. It is difficult with the information I have to determine if the government was in the right, but the judge probably did and I would wager there was some serious overstepping to drag this guy to a mental hospital.

[Jace Solo]

I don't think it really matters who it's directed at. Police and psychologists always get accused of not paying attention to the warning signs before someone goes on a rampage, this time they seem to have intervened before it (may have) escalated. Either way they get blamed. I'm still wanting to see what it was he wrote that got him in trouble.

So it's like Minority Report!

Is this dude Tom Cruise or Jack Reacher?

[Jace Solo]

Then you'll grow hairs on your testicles and become a man.

You'll probably even post in a weekly thread wearing your FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY JERSEY like you said you would after your favorite CONFERENCE you claim is SUPERIOR loses to a LESSER CONFERENCE.

It would probably look something like this: http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?87843-Gelston-s-FSU-Shirt-JPEG-Thread&highlight=

That is if you are following Gelston's lead in the whole thing.

Whatever happened to that thread? Oh, I found it. It's: http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?87843-Gelston-s-FSU-Shirt-JPEG-Thread&highlight=

Oh, April was it... hmmm, he's a little behind. Don't be like him though PK, you need to be punctual to watch Football games...PBR doesn't even have an expiration date.

[Jace Solo]

It proves he's an obedient little clown who is great at following orders. His obvious homoeroticism was probably cultivated in boot camp by the drill sergeant who turned him out as a twink.

And why are you still here? Didn't you denounce GS and sell off all your possessions? Should you be following IW around the middle east or something?

[Latrinsorm]

Seems to me that the argument over definitions of arrest and detainment are fairly irrelevant considering the thread title states the lawsuit is about illegal detainment. It was not until post #7 that someone erroneously injected the word arrest into the conversation.

That being said, this is pretty messed up. It is difficult with the information I have to determine if the government was in the right, but the judge probably did and I would wager there was some serious overstepping to drag this guy to a mental hospital.I maintain that it was an important clarification. Andy brought up the lack of charges being filed, which is irrelevant to a mental health detention. That other people turned out to not know the distinction either was a bonus.

[Gelston]

You'll probably even post in a weekly thread wearing your FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY JERSEY like you said you would after your favorite CONFERENCE you claim is SUPERIOR loses to a LESSER CONFERENCE.

It would probably look something like this: http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?87843-Gelston-s-FSU-Shirt-JPEG-Thread&highlight=

That is if you are following Gelston's lead in the whole thing.

Whatever happened to that thread? Oh, I found it. It's: http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?87843-Gelston-s-FSU-Shirt-JPEG-Thread&highlight=

Oh, April was it... hmmm, he's a little behind. Don't be like him though PK, you need to be punctual to watch Football games...PBR doesn't even have an expiration date.

I got tired of how girly FSU clothing made me feel.

[Valthissa]

I maintain that it was an important clarification. Andy brought up the lack of charges being filed, which is irrelevant to a mental health detention. That other people turned out to not know the distinction either was a bonus.

Are you still claiming that you can be placed in handcuffs but not be under arrest? Or are you saying it was good that some people here learned there is a distinction between detainment and arrest?

(note a Terry stop does not involve handcuffs, just a pat down of your outer garments)

[kutter]

Actually, you can be placed into handcuffs without being arrested, LEO's do it all the time for their own or someone else's safety; they have to be able to articulate why they did it, but it is perfectly legal.

[Latrinsorm]

Actually, you can be placed into handcuffs without being arrested, LEO's do it all the time for their own or someone else's safety; they have to be able to articulate why they did it, but it is perfectly legal.:)
Are you still claiming that you can be placed in handcuffs but not be under arrest? Or are you saying it was good that some people here learned there is a distinction between detainment and arrest?

(note a Terry stop does not involve handcuffs, just a pat down of your outer garments)For the record, citing Terry was merely to establish that the distinction can be drawn between detention and arrest in general. It does not specifically mention handcuffing, but I believe the principle applies.

[Tgo01]

This back and forth about handcuffs = arrest is interesting. I Googled it and it seems there are two sides to this...as per usual.

One side says being detained = being under arrest.
The other side says a police officer has to actually tell you you are under arrest before you are under arrest.

It is interesting though because a police officer can't interrogate you if you are just being detained (being placed in handcuffs means you're being detained) unless they first read you your Miranda rights. That seems to me that being placed in handcuffs means you're arrested.

Seems like a dangerous loophole to allow police officers to handcuff you while maintaining it isn't an actual arrest.

[Tenlaar]

It is interesting though because a police officer can't interrogate you if you are just being detained (being placed in handcuffs means you're being detained) unless they first read you your Miranda rights. That seems to me that being placed in handcuffs means you're arrested.

That seems to me that when you are read your rights is when the arrest has taken place, not when you are cuffed.

[Tgo01]

That seems to me that when you are read your rights is when the arrest has taken place, not when you are cuffed.

You can be arrested and put into a jail cell without ever being read your rights though.

[kutter]

There is a fairly significant legal distinction between the two, if you are arrested, whether you are read your rights or not, but in my experience people are always read their rights when arrested but I digress; when you are arrested then a magic clock starts, I would have to ask one of the lawyers I work with, but generally you must go before a magistrate within 24 hours of arrest. Since I work for DHS and it is not always operationally feasible to present someone to a magistrate in that time frame, we rarely 'arrest' someone, we almost always administratively detain them and when they are turned over to the agency that will be prosecuting them they are formally arrested. Now, it is possible for a detention to become defacto arrest if you do not make every effort to present them to a magistrate at the earliest possibility and if the judge decides you have done this, then he will toss the case because you violated, I think 4th amendment rights, but that is from memory and I could be wrong, since it is something that almost never occurs.

[Latrinsorm]

This back and forth about handcuffs = arrest is interesting. I Googled it and it seems there are two sides to this...as per usual.The wrong side and the Latrinsorm side. B)
One side says being detained = being under arrest.
The other side says a police officer has to actually tell you you are under arrest before you are under arrest.

It is interesting though because a police officer can't interrogate you if you are just being detained (being placed in handcuffs means you're being detained) unless they first read you your Miranda rights. That seems to me that being placed in handcuffs means you're arrested.

Seems like a dangerous loophole to allow police officers to handcuff you while maintaining it isn't an actual arrest.There are strict guidelines to such detention. The police officer has to promise promise promise that you were threatening in some way or he might get in trouble, but probably won't. This does not at all indicate that our government could be infringing on our rights, because we have guns, therefore they can't and we don't ever have to think about it again.

Terrence, it's like you don't know anything at all.