New rogue build

[Astray]

2x thw
1.5x ambush
2x(?) hide/stalk
1.5x cm
1x pt
1x armor
2x dodge
.5x perception
Climbing and swimming to 20 till high level
Save misc. points

Any pointers/fixes would be nice.

[m444w]

You would be better served with at least 2x dodge. 2x ambush isn't really going to be necessary with those big weapons either. I'd go 1.5x

[Whirlin]

DEXAGL Requirements on ambushing with a 2HW are restrictive.

Ambushing from hiding adds 3 seconds, and increases minimum RT by 1.
THW have differences between base RT and minimum RT.
Both values are additive, and subsequently mitigated by DEXAGL.

Lets use a maul for instance... 7 RT, with 5 RT minimum.
Ambushing changes that to 10 RT, with a 6 RT Minimum
Mitigating 4 RT requires 53 DEXAGL.

I do not believe ambushing with a claid will yield additional weighting beyond the 40 points

[Astray]

You would be better served with at least 2x dodge. 2x ambush isn't really going to be necessary with those big weapons either. I'd go 1.5x

Alright.


DEXAGL Requirements on ambushing with a 2HW are restrictive.

Ambushing from hiding adds 3 seconds, and increases minimum RT by 1.
THW have differences between base RT and minimum RT.
Both values are additive, and subsequently mitigated by DEXAGL.

Lets use a maul for instance... 7 RT, with 5 RT minimum.
Ambushing changes that to 10 RT, with a 6 RT Minimum
Mitigating 4 RT requires 53 DEXAGL.

I do not believe ambushing with a claid will yield additional weighting beyond the 40 points

What stats do you recommend for a Human?

[Whirlin]

5 RT Reduction|4 RT Reduction|3 RT Reduction
Halfling|Aelotoi|Erithian
Burghal gnome|Dark elf|Human
Elf|Forest gnome|Dwarf
|Half-elf|Giantman
|Sylvankind|
|Half-krolvin|


5 RT Reduction|STR Mod||4 RT Reduction|STR Mod
Halfling|-15||Aelotoi|-5
Burghal gnome|-15||Dark elf|0
Elf|0||Forest gnome|-10
|||Half-elf|0
|||Sylvankind|0
|||Half-krolvin|10



I've done this before.

You'll never minimize RT with a human THW ambusher without enhancives.

[Astray]

So, upon a miss, I'm risking higher RT and being in the open in offensive. Would Vanish mitigate the risk?

[Versin]

I think Whirlin's point is that claids + ambush is redundant. Unless you want to open aim, which works decently at about 20 ranks.

[Astray]

I'd prefer to hide and ambush but if claid + ambush is redundant. What would be a more satisfying experience?

[Rolis]

I do not believe ambushing with a claid will yield additional weighting beyond the 40 points

I am pretty sure that ambushing will yield ranks of crit weighting beyond a claid. While this may not be noticable on lesser armored foes, it can easily be tested and observed on chain or plate wearing critters.

[DaCapn]

A (long?) while ago there was a thread where a capped or near-cap ambushing rogue (I think the poster was DoctorUnne) got somewhere around 40-50 points of weighting. This is just around claidhmore range. Of course, the important trade-off comes with the critical rank you can achieve reliably (before randomization) and the damage type of the weapon (crit rank needed for kill). In the impossibly high weighting limit, the maul can have a 100% crit-kill rate (crush only) whereas the claidhmore can not (slash/crush).

I've got a THW Burghal rogue. He wears brig and has 410 and would switch between claidhmore and maul. Hunting single targets, I'd use the maul from hiding and target leg then head. Hunting areas that swarmed a bit more, I'd use the claidhmore, 410 and open-aim for the head. Keep in mind that you might not need ambush as much for the weighting with THW as you might aiming a heavier weapon. It's definitely a fun build. This basic build was achievable in the low 30s.

[Astray]

Thank you for telling me to look up the name. I'm looking at his build and it's basically stripped down to absolute basics. If there was a more in depth thread, I could find it, unfortunately.

Would I suffer in the long run if I ran skills at a lower priority and catch them up as more points free up? And if you don't mind, DaCapn, could you post the basic build?

[Thondalar]

I really hate threads like this, because I have to throw my 2 cents in and speak the obvious...or, what I assume should be obvious to anyone with even a child's understanding of GS mechanics.

Build your character.

Mechanically, anything is viable. We have capped THW sorcerers, for Christ's sake. Sure, it takes some work to pull off, but if you're going for a "win button" as an ambushing rogue, go UAC. Ignores armor, ridiculous crits.

THW as an ambushing rogue is overkill...there's only so many crit ranks you can pull off. If I can instant-crit a post-cap creature in plate equivalent with a dagger 9 times out of 10, using a maul instead isn't really going to make much difference.

We're a smaller community than we used to be, so it's more important now than ever that players create characters...not just number-generators.

Is your guy a half-krol or Giant? I could see him using a larger weapon. Human(oid)? A few options...twc small blades, be like a Will-type..perhaps a brutish thug with a mace or morning star.

Create the character first. The mechanics will follow.

[Mobius1]

What's with everyone wanting to swing a maul these days?

I remember helping Kaerika with her maul build, and she was able to make it work decently. It's a TP expensive route though, and obviously not for anyone looking for a mechanical advantage.

Try some TWC with Whirling Dervish, if you want a REAL ambush build, though. Don't become another one of those flavor of the month wannabe brawler rogues!

[kutter]

Have to go with Thondalar on this one, my TWC rogue swings either an axe/gauche or wakizashi/tanto depending on what he is hunting, he usually gets one shot kills with either. While I think a THW ambushing rogue is really cool as an RP, from a strictly mechanics point, it is liking smashing a fly with a tank. It works, but why use it.

[DaCapn]

Yeah, build your character. Wait... Not that way!


(at level 43), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 150 50
Combat Maneuvers...................| 147 47
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 190 90
Ambush.............................| 190 90
Physical Fitness...................| 190 90
Dodging............................| 190 90
Harness Power......................| 90 20
Stalking and Hiding................| 190 90
Climbing...........................| 130 35

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 10
Training Points: 81 Phy 0 Mnt (104 Phy converted to Mnt)

I tried TWC first with this char. I didn't like it. I spent years doing sword/board and then converted to ranged on my rogue. Blunts don't present a tactical experience that is different from OHE, and I didn't feel like trying brawling (also pre-UAC changes). It turned out to be a pretty fun build to toy around with on an alt from time to time.

I'm not sure what level range the original poster is looking at but I'd like to drop a reminder that build advice from players long-since enjoying the capped experience is often distorted and not constructive towards training newer characters. "I can one-shot everything with a dagger" coming from someone capped or near-capped is not helpful advice to the player of a level 20 character other than to let them know what they can look forward to a couple years down the road.

[Whirlin]

I really hate threads like this, because I have to throw my 2 cents in and speak the obvious...or, what I assume should be obvious to anyone with even a child's understanding of GS mechanics.

Build your character.

Mechanically, anything is viable. We have capped THW sorcerers, for Christ's sake. Sure, it takes some work to pull off, but if you're going for a "win button" as an ambushing rogue, go UAC. Ignores armor, ridiculous crits.

THW as an ambushing rogue is overkill...there's only so many crit ranks you can pull off. If I can instant-crit a post-cap creature in plate equivalent with a dagger 9 times out of 10, using a maul instead isn't really going to make much difference.

We're a smaller community than we used to be, so it's more important now than ever that players create characters...not just number-generators.

Is your guy a half-krol or Giant? I could see him using a larger weapon. Human(oid)? A few options...twc small blades, be like a Will-type..perhaps a brutish thug with a mace or morning star.

Create the character first. The mechanics will follow.
:(