The Decision DO OVER [Archive] - The Gemstone IV Players' Corner

Latrinsorm

05-21-2014, 11:24 AM

I expect LeBron to opt out.

I'm not convinced Cleveland will take Embiid. They did take Bennett, after all.

The only destinations that make basketball sense to me for LeBron are the Heat, Clippers, and Warriors. He knows his clock is ticking, he doesn't have so long that he can wait for the young fellas in Cleveland to get it together. The young fellas in Golden State do have it together, they just need someone to run the offense, an area where LeBron excels. Chris Paul is the best PG in the game and Doc is a big attraction, if they can keep Blake too then that's a dynamite nucleus. Clips and Warriors each have enormous turmoil off the court, though, so I expect LeBron to stay with the Heat regardless of this season's outcome. None of the teams really have cap space, but there are ways around that.

Also, I didn't know going 10-2 so far in the playoffs constituted "struggling" to reach the Finals.

Keller

05-21-2014, 02:08 PM

It's redemption - for failing in Cleveland, for leaving Cleveland, for only winning 2 out of 4 championships in Miami - Redemption for the King.

Latrinsorm

05-21-2014, 03:58 PM

He's a first ballot Hall of Famer and a consensus top 10 all time player. Jesus came to heal the sick, not the healthy (Matthew 9:12).

DoctorUnne

05-21-2014, 07:15 PM

He's a first ballot Hall of Famer and a consensus top 10 all time player.

So is Kobe.

Latrinsorm

05-21-2014, 08:05 PM

Ha! Ha! Oh Doc, you are the living end.

SHAFT

05-21-2014, 11:54 PM

It's redemption - for failing in Cleveland, for leaving Cleveland, for only winning 2 out of 4 championships in Miami - Redemption for the King.

It'll be 3 out of 4, be honest with yourself. In that scenario, why would you ever leave? For Cleveland of all places? If he leaves Miami for Cleveland he's an idiot. Leaving Cleveland was the best move of his life.

Keller

06-17-2014, 01:39 PM

News outlets are reporting that Lebron's kids are enrolled for school next year in Ohio.

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1385/75/1385753810661.gif

Keller

06-17-2014, 01:40 PM

It'll be 3 out of 4, be honest with yourself.

:snicker:

Keller

06-24-2014, 11:53 AM

Sooooooo

Warriorbird

06-24-2014, 12:02 PM

I think leaving the NBA is the best possible choice. He's bigger than the league is.

Keller

06-24-2014, 12:24 PM

I've seen deluded and desperate Heat fans claiming Lebron opted out to sign for the veteran minimum so Miami could afford Carmelo.

I am so glad I'll never have a team with a star like Lebron that could crush me the way he has crushed Cleveland and now Miami.

Keller

06-24-2014, 12:25 PM

So what does Miami's starting 5 look like going into next year?

C - Joel Anthony
PF - Bosh
SF - Beasley
SG - Lance Stephenson
PG - Norris Cole

I think they could still compete for the 7 or 8 in the East.

SHAFT

06-24-2014, 12:39 PM

I wouldn't be shocked if Lebron stayed in Miami. This puts pressure on the Miami front office.

Keller

06-24-2014, 12:40 PM

I wouldn't be shocked if Lebron stayed in Miami. This puts pressure on the Miami front office.

To do what exactly?

SHAFT

06-24-2014, 01:23 PM

To do what exactly?

To win baby! Just win baby!

Keller

06-24-2014, 02:16 PM

To win baby! Just win baby!

So he signs with Cleveland or Portland?

Allereli

06-24-2014, 02:19 PM

Atlanteax

06-24-2014, 03:42 PM

didn't he win 2 championships?

It was not 4 for 4.

Keller

06-24-2014, 04:06 PM

didn't he win 2 championships?

Yes, he only won 2.

Allereli

06-24-2014, 04:23 PM

Yes, he only won 2.

I hate Derek Jeter for his record, too.

Keller

06-24-2014, 05:10 PM

I hate Derek Jeter for his record, too.

You're a monster if you hate Derek Jeter. The man is a god among men (and women, apparently).

Allereli

06-24-2014, 05:21 PM

You're a monster if you hate Derek Jeter. The man is a god among men (and women, apparently).

but HE DIDN'T WIN EVERY YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SHAFT

06-24-2014, 05:27 PM

You're a monster if you hate Derek Jeter. The man is a god among men (and women, apparently).

Yeah, I'd have a beer with Jeter. A-rod, not so much.

Keller

06-24-2014, 05:43 PM

but HE DIDN'T WIN EVERY YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He also didn't promise to win championships or leave the Yankees as a free agent.

I'm not sure where you're taking this.

Allereli

06-24-2014, 06:03 PM

I'm not sure where you're taking this.

I thought I put enough exclamation points in so that people wouldn't take it seriously

Latrinsorm

06-24-2014, 06:08 PM

He also didn't promise to win championships or leave the Yankees as a free agent.

I'm not sure where you're taking this.LeBron didn't do either of those either. Therefore: A+ comparison, would murmur "yeah jeets" again.

Ardwen

06-24-2014, 06:27 PM

So much for not 5 and 6 and 7 or whatever tripe it was he was selling when they signed then?

Keller

06-24-2014, 06:32 PM

LeBron didn't do either of those either. Therefore: A+ comparison, would murmur "yeah jeets" again.

Glad to see you finally made it into the official 2014 NBA offseason thread.

SHAFT

06-25-2014, 01:09 PM

To do what exactly?

Example a: http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=11133418

I realize this somewhat of a fluff piece, but lebron wants Riley to do something to upgrade the roster. Chalmers and cole are not key ingredients to a championship roster.

Atlanteax

06-25-2014, 01:23 PM

Please take a moment to admire the great LeBron for the special talent he is. It never gets old looking at the King's history. So many accomplishments Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan will never achieve:

1. Bronze 2006
2. Bronze 2004
3. NBA finals sweep 2007
4. Quit on his team the year after he promises a championship
5. Dunked on by a highschool kid and then confiscate tape
6. Bail on the dunk contest 9 times
7. Only able to win a ring with 2 superstars
8. 7th best player in NBA finals series.
9. Average 1.8 pts in the 4th quarter of NBA finals.
10. Lose not 1, not 2, but 3 times in the Finals.
11. Host a national televised TV show to leave his team
12. Play on the same team as his moms boyfriend
13. Go 2 for 18 in an NBA playoff game.
14. Get stuffed by a player under 6 feet (Nate Robinson)
15. Flop every single game in the playoffs
16. Choke 4 out of 5 finals games by dropping FG% by 18
17.Would have zero championships if not for the refs calling early fouls on Durant and Westbrook which threw them out of rhythm and made them play soft and have to sit for big parts of the game which changed the flow and momentum of the finals

Nice list...

Keller

07-07-2014, 09:18 AM

Now that some of you can't avoid reality much longer - it is time for those less prescient to make their predictions. I'll reiterate what Lebron will do, and add some others.

Lebron - Cleveland
Bosh - Houston
Melo - LAL
Wade - Cleveland
Lance - Miami
Hayward - Jazz

Androidpk

07-07-2014, 09:52 AM

I see Lebron and Wade signing with the Phoenix Suns.

Keller

07-07-2014, 10:02 AM

I see Lebron and Wade signing with the Phoenix Suns.

Phoenix would also make a ton of sense, but I think it's Cleveland. Last I checked the Suns didn't have the best young PG, the next Lebron James, a future-lottery team (Miami)'s first round pick next year, and Memphis's first round pick next year (not to mention their own). Oh, and Lebron and his agent are born and bread Ohioians.

It's almost like Lebron got out of Cleveland to let them stockpile assets/talent so he could return to a cheap, young nucleus.

Keller

07-07-2014, 12:57 PM

Annnnd Vegas weighs in with Clevelands 8:1 favorites to win the east next year.

Latrin - do you still have a Cleveland jersey or will you need to buy one?

Keller

07-07-2014, 02:42 PM

Why would LeBron want Wade in Cleveland? Much better idea to bring Bosh.

Bosh can get a max deal in Houston.

Wade could maybe get the MLE in Milwaukee.

They're certainly cheap and young, but are they any good? It's a team that finished 5 games out of the playoffs in the East. Their only above average players are Irving and Varejao, and Varejao is getting sent out if Cleveland wants two marquee guys. Dion Waiters is atrocious on offense, posting the worst USG-PER of any player with 2000+ MP last year (outpacing even Josh Smith and Evan Turner). Anthony Bennett literally took wins away when he played. Wiggins was an average 3 shooter in college, he's going to kill spacing in the NBA for at least a couple years. They have a rookie head coach and an owner who 24 hours ago still had a bitter polemic against LeBron uploaded to the team's official site.

You look at that and think "yeah, that'll work!"? They have picks after next year, great. If he comes back to Miami with the big 3, they are the prohibitive favorite to get to the Finals, which (1) puts him alone in history with Bill Russell with 5 straight and (2) gives him at least a 40% chance at another ring right now. The clock's ticking. Did you know LeBron has already played more regular season minutes than Magic Johnson? That by the end of next year he will have passed Laimbeer, Dumars, Dantley, Baylor, Goodrich, Bird, David Robinson, Latrell Sprewell, hall of famer Mitch Richmond? That he's already 17th in career playoff minutes played? All of which are American dreams. All of which are American dreams. All of which counts on the odometer, cyborg or no.

Phoenix has Dragic, Gerald Green (who would obviously move to 6th man), and the Morrises, plus Plumlee as a defensive anchor, and a slightly more proven coach (but an equally loathed owner). That's what a good nucleus looks like. Their problem is that they're in the West (which gets even worse if Carmelo joins with Kobe to lock down the 8 seed for years to come), but they also have another $10m in cap space, so they can at least pretend they can sign two marquee guys without losing anyone.

Reports from Lebron's camp is he wants Andy in Cleveland. Not sure where you're getting your information about him being moved in LBJ signs, but it is wrong.

Whatever team Lebron signs with is the prohibitive favorite to make it to the finals. By the way - the big 3? LBJ, Bosh, and . . . James Ennis? Not sure who you're counting as the Miami big 3.

Cleveland has more assets than any other suitor. They have the best young PG in the NBA in Irving. They have the next Lebron in Wiggins. They have next year's most improved player in Bennett. They could move Thompson, Bennett, Waiters, and 3 first round picks to acquire literally any player in the NBA.

Say you move Thompson, Bennett, Jack, and 2 firsts for Kevin Love and Gorgei Dieng.

Imagine a roster of

PG - Irving
SG - Wiggins
SF - LBJ
PF - Kevin Love
C - Andy V.
Bench - Wade
Bench - Waiters
Bench - Dieng

Compare that to . . .

PG - Cole
SG - Wade
SF - LBJ
PF - Bosh
C - Haslem
bench - Marvin Williams
bench - Shabazz Napier
bench - Josh McRoberts

Warriorbird

07-07-2014, 02:50 PM

Bosh can get a max deal in Houston.

Wade could maybe get the MLE in Milwaukee.

Reports from Lebron's camp is he wants Andy in Cleveland. Not sure where you're getting your information about him being moved in LBJ signs, but it is wrong.

Whatever team Lebron signs with is the prohibitive favorite to make it to the finals. By the way - the big 3? LBJ, Bosh, and . . . James Ennis? Not sure who you're counting as the Miami big 3.

Cleveland has more assets than any other suitor. They have the best young PG in the NBA in Irving. They have the next Lebron in Wiggins. They have next year's most improved player in Bennett. They could move Thompson, Bennett, Waiters, and 3 first round picks to acquire literally any player in the NBA.

Say you move Thompson, Bennett, Jack, and 2 firsts for Kevin Love and Gorgei Dieng.

Imagine a roster of

PG - Irving
SG - Wiggins
SF - LBJ
PF - Kevin Love
C - Andy V.
Bench - Wade
Bench - Waiters
Bench - Dieng

Compare that to . . .

PG - Cole
SG - Wade
SF - LBJ
PF - Bosh
C - Haslem
bench - Marvin Williams
bench - Shabazz Napier
bench - Josh McRoberts

Latrin will naturally start rooting for Cleveland.

Keller

07-07-2014, 03:12 PM

Annnnnd Josh McRoberts (the guy CHARLOTTE has drafted over in the top 10 of the last 2 drafts) has verbally agreed to sign with Miami for the FULL mid-level exception.

I would pay a LOT of money to produce "The Presentation" where America gets to watch Lebron react to Pat Riley's presentation of his plan for Miami to surround Lebron with championship talent.

Keller

07-07-2014, 03:19 PM

I wouldn't put anything past ol' Flip, but that's a horrible, horrible trade for Minnesota. It would be horrible for Love alone. How about this:

Miami trades Norris Cole and a 2019 2nd rounder for Love.
Miami signs and trades Chalmers for Goran Dragic.
Miami signs Pau Gasol to the veteran's minimum.

Hey! Now there's a great team! Yeah! Be realistic, Kelly.

Love is gone after this year.

The Wolves would trip over themselves to get two firsts (one of which is the Heat's lottery pick) + the most improved player, a solid young PF. That's why Dieng has to be part of the deal.

I agree they'd be stupid to take Jack - but it was easier to lump him into that trade than to add another trade to the scenario. They could trade Jack + a first to Philly for cash.

Keller

07-07-2014, 03:25 PM

Losing the full mid-level is tough, but McRoberts is a good role player. Stretch big, credible defender, excellent passing efficiency, not afraid to throw a cheap shot (critical against the Spurs and their history of dirty play).

http://i.imgur.com/ZHcRlhV.png

By "good role player" I assume you mean he plays a lot of Pathfinder?

Keller

07-07-2014, 03:45 PM

And now Danny Granger agrees to a deal with the Heat?

I'm sure Larry Bird would let them have Donald Sloan is Pat Riley wants anymore Pacers bench players.

Ardwen

07-07-2014, 04:06 PM

Keller

07-07-2014, 04:13 PM

2 guys that essentially play the same spot as Bosh, makes ya go hmmmm

I'd be stunned if Wade went anywhere, Miami is the only place he is going to replace the 40m he left on the table albeit in a 4 yr 10 per deal or something

The problem is that Wade is not a starter anymore. I can see Miami offering him the money out of loyalty - but it'd be weird being (i) the best player on your team and (ii) coming off the bench.

Keller

07-07-2014, 04:17 PM

I wonder how long it will be before Pat Riley has a deal in principle with Jermaine O'Neal, Ron Artest, and Jalen Rose.

Ardwen

07-07-2014, 04:19 PM

And he'd be the only overpaid veteran in the league if they did it? They need a name, most of their current season ticket holders are stuck with 3 year licenses with 2 years remaining. Which is by the way the worst idea I have ever heard. They lose Bosh, James and Wade they have zero options left to turn to at this point.

Keller

07-07-2014, 04:27 PM

My point was more along the lines of "why would Wade want to do that?"

The Miami Heat are in for a 10 year rebuilding project. They don't have any assets. Wade would be foolish to finish his career in Miami.

Ardwen

07-07-2014, 05:03 PM

because he's destined for at best a low value midlevel exception anywhere else? I can't see anyone else paying more then 5-6 a year based on how little he seems capable of playing now. And he's only valuable for advertising deals in Miami I would imagine.

Keller

07-08-2014, 03:34 PM

http://vimeo.com/92261125

Keller

07-08-2014, 10:53 PM

Annnnnnd Nike is buying up billboards in Cleveland.

Don't worry, Heat fans. Just convince yourself it is for Jonny Football.

Keller

07-09-2014, 11:05 AM

I agree they'd be stupid to take Jack - but it was easier to lump him into that trade than to add another trade to the scenario. They could trade Jack + a first to Philly for cash.

Nostrakeller in the house. Cleveland trades Jack and a first for nothing.

Dear Latrin,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDKO6XYXioc

Keller

07-09-2014, 11:25 AM

So with Cleveland having an $8M trade exception and the salaries of Bennet/Waiters and Thompson - it seems like a sign and trade with the T'Wolves is inevitable.

PG - Irving
SG - Wiggins
SF - Lebron
PF - Love
C- Andy

My penis is erect just thinking about playing with that team in NBA 2K15.

Androidpk

07-09-2014, 11:35 AM

Maybe I'm sadistic but I think it would be hilarious if he held a huge press conference in Cleveland and then announced he was going to sign with Phoenix or some other team.

Keller

07-09-2014, 12:31 PM

To be honest, I'm happy as long as it is not Miami.

Although, for the sake of Skylar Grey's royalty income, I hope he signs with Cleveland. It's like she wrote that song for this situation.

I'm coming home. Let the rain wash away the pain of yesterday. I know my kingdom awaits and they've forgiven my mistakes. I'm coming home. Tell the world, I'm coming home.

Get you some of that NBA money, Skylar.

Keller

07-09-2014, 03:32 PM

In case any of you continue to doubt my prognostication - Lebron, Kyrie, and Tristan Thompson have all updated their twitter profiles to read "LaFamilia."

Keller

07-09-2014, 04:06 PM

Miami's Big Three

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsIJQPfIgAEZtAu.jpg

Parkbandit

07-09-2014, 04:14 PM

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2014/07/09/report-90-percent-chance-lebron-james-will-return-to-cleveland/

Latrinsorm

07-09-2014, 06:08 PM

Nostrakeller in the house. Cleveland trades Jack and a first for nothing.Mistake. Tyler Zeller was a decent big. Allen and Miller are serviceable pickups but I'd rather have McRoberts, and there's no guarantee either actually ends up in Cleveland.
Maybe I'm sadistic but I think it would be hilarious if he held a huge press conference in Cleveland and then announced he was going to sign with Phoenix or some other team.It's like people forgot the original decision. Back then people were saying things like:

"The Knicks also have a solid young nucleus. Danilo Gallinari is a straight-up shooter who could work well off the bench if LeBron James comes. Chris Duhon is a developing point guard who’s best days are ahead of him. Al Harrington has been impressive at times as a Knick, and David Lee is simply a double-double 20-10 machine every night. Jonathan Bender may have room to grow also. Tracy McGrady has likely played his last game as a Knick, but you never know."
And that was before they added Amare for nothing.

"A good young nucleus. Brook Lopez is one of the best centers in the league and will only get better. Devin Harris would give LeBron the speedy point guard he’s lacked his entire career. Terrence Williams showed promise as a rookie and Derrick Favors, who will need time to blossom, will only be better with James in town. The Nets will sign another big-name player along with James. Carlos Boozer or David Lee will fill the hole at power forward."

Looking back at that tells us two things: people will believe anything they really want to, potential is French for hasn't done bullsquash yet. Neither the Cavs nor the Wolves have made the playoffs in 4 years. The Heat have made the last 4 Finals. It's not rocket surgery. (And for reference, the Heat and Raptors combined for five playoff appearances in the 4 years leading up to Decision 1.0.)

Ardwen

07-09-2014, 06:19 PM

Man i so called them dumping jack in the other thread, and damned if the Celtics dont have way too many picks and young players at this point, is it me or is trading essentially nothing for a first and 2 players a little ridiculous

Latrinsorm

07-09-2014, 07:21 PM

Parsons signs a 3yr/$45m offer sheet from the Mavs. I'm not sure why he didn't try for a 4 year deal, but the $ are a little heavy so it works out okay. He's a serious piece and I can't imagine how the Rockets let him go on the chance they get Bosh. Also relevant is that they have three days to match, whereas Bosh is allegedly waiting on LeBron to decide, which of course has no definite time table.

Keller

07-10-2014, 03:35 PM

Announcement at 3:30 CT. 3:30 is the Akron area code.

Keller

07-10-2014, 03:36 PM

www.lebronjames.com has crashed - even his website chokes in the clutch

Methais

07-10-2014, 03:37 PM

Breaking: LeBron James Leaning Toward Joining Al-Qaeda

MIAMI—After viewing its latest pitch highlighting all he could accomplish with its organization, NBA power forward LeBron James confirmed Tuesday that he is currently leaning toward joining the militant Islamic group Al-Qaeda. “I’ve been doing my due diligence, and right now I’m really interested in [Al-Qaeda leader] Ayman al-Zawahiri’s vision and what he has already built over there,” said James, adding that while he has also considered offers from terrorist organizations such as Boko Haram and the Taliban, he believes heading to Al-Qaeda remains his best opportunity to defeat the West in the immediate future. “It seems like they’re open to doing a max deal, but I’d be willing to take a pay cut if that’s what it’ll take for them to bring in a big-time cell leader to work alongside me. Of course, I also can’t ignore their storied history and the fact that they have such a loyal following. I’m certain they have the personnel to take out both L.A. and San Antonio. Overall, I think moving to the Arabian Peninsula is the best option for me right now, and it will help take me to the next level.” At press time, James confirmed that his agent Rich Paul, who has been overseas negotiating with the group, has not been heard from in six days.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/breaking-lebron-james-leaning-toward-joining-alqae,36417/

Allereli

07-10-2014, 08:44 PM

Breaking: LeBron James Leaning Toward Joining Al-Qaeda

awesome.

and wtf is wrong with people? http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2125920-cleveland-fans-line-up-outside-of-lebron-james-ohio-house-as-decision-looms?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national2 probably a prank call

Keller

07-11-2014, 12:00 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsMbCJGCYAE8VSF.jpg

RSR

07-11-2014, 12:44 PM

http://www.si.com/nba/2014/07/11/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers

It's official, he's back in Cleveland.

Keller

07-11-2014, 12:45 PM

http://www.si.com/nba/2014/07/11/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers

It's ok, Latrin - you can still root for Dwayne Wade.

Drew

07-11-2014, 12:56 PM

I appreciate the championships LeBron brought to Miami, it was great watching him play. I wish him luck in Cleveland.

I'm going to enjoy all the Cleveland/Ohio fans falling all over themselves to act like they didn't turn on LeBron when he left and they loved him all along.

https://scontent-b-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/10417806_10100238774086791_7140820707436804164_n.j pg

SHAFT

07-11-2014, 01:19 PM

Good luck to him in Cleveland. He's going to need it. I'd feel a lot better about it if they got Kevin love.

Latrinsorm

07-11-2014, 01:20 PM

I agree with LeBron that it's a mistake, basketball-wise. It's going to be harder for him to have team success with this group than it would have been with Miami.

Referring to Miami as college is just brilliant, and it explains the Original Decision even more.

If Bosh and Melo follow through and go to Houston and New York respectively, however, that does reduce the degree of difficulty a little. Neither will matter in the Eastern Conference playoffs, and you've got to get to the Finals to win it.

Tip of that hat to Micky Arison: "I am shocked & disappointed in today's news. However I will never forget what Lebron brought us for 4 years. Thanks for memories @KingJames" No word on what font he used.

waywardgs

07-11-2014, 01:21 PM

Lebron James going back to Cleveland after winning in Miami is like A.C. Slater going back to Jessie Spano after dating Kelly Kapowski.

SHAFT

07-11-2014, 01:23 PM

Lebron James going back to Cleveland after winning in Miami is like A.C. Slater going back to Jessie Spano after dating Kelly Kapowski.

You're so right. What a wonderful comparison.

Keller

07-11-2014, 01:27 PM

I agree with LeBron that it's a mistake, basketball-wise. It's going to be harder for him to have team success with this group than it would have been with Miami.

Nate Silver, who is a professional statistician, disagrees with you.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lebron-james-shouldnt-stay-in-miami-or-go-to-cleveland/

DoctorUnne

07-11-2014, 01:28 PM

I think smart decision by LeBron, although surprised. Miami's going south. Cleveland is a team on the rise and now all the pressure will be on Gilbert to bring in the other pieces. Cleveland will become a much more attractive destination now, and Kyrie Irving is a billion times better than Miami's PGs. I'm calling it here first - Cleveland wins the east next year.

DoctorUnne

07-11-2014, 01:30 PM

Plus to have the opportunity to finish what you started and win a championship in the city you grew up in gives me goose bumps. Going to a third team would have made him seem way to much of a mercenary. Now he can say that he was naive in how he handled the decision and wants to make amends, without apologizing for what he accomplished in Miami.

I just became a bigger LeBron fan

Keller

07-11-2014, 01:32 PM

Keller

07-11-2014, 01:42 PM

Referring to Miami as college is just brilliant, and it explains the Original Decision even more.

Retweeted by Steven Godfrey (https://twitter.com/38Godfrey)
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/458688600591171584/i-oeKOpi_bigger.jpegChristian D'Andrea ‏@TrainIsland (https://twitter.com/TrainIsland)9m (https://twitter.com/TrainIsland/status/487637065203716097)
Lebron refers to 4 years in Miami as "like college". But it ended with him writing an essay, so we can rule out UNC.

Methais

07-11-2014, 02:02 PM

Lebron James going back to Cleveland after winning in Miami is like A.C. Slater going back to Jessie Spano after dating Kelly Kapowski.

http://www.joeydevilla.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/slater.jpg

Ker_Thwap

07-11-2014, 03:00 PM

Lebron James going back to Cleveland after winning in Miami is like A.C. Slater going back to Jessie Spano after dating Kelly Kapowski.

I don't know exactly who these people are, but yeah, the Cleveland fans who accept him back have no self respect.

Keller

07-11-2014, 03:09 PM

I don't know exactly who these people are, but yeah, the Cleveland fans who accept him back have no self respect.

They are Cleveland fans. They had no self respect to begin with.

Latrinsorm

07-11-2014, 03:27 PM

Nate Silver, who is a professional statistician, disagrees with you.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lebron-james-shouldnt-stay-in-miami-or-go-to-cleveland/I would raise four counterpoints:

1. Collinearity between high win totals and seeding.
Miami having 53 wins isn't great, but if that's good enough for the 2 seed (and only a game back of the 1 seed) they have a better chance of reaching the Finals than (for instance) the 1998 Lakers, who had 61 wins but only managed a 3 seed. Or the 1996 Magic, who had 60 wins but were annihilated by the 72 win Bulls. The Pacers aren't getting any better. Nobody else in the East is getting better enough to seriously challenge for a 1 or 2 seed.

2. Small sample size.
Yes, Miami got crushed by the Spurs with a net rating of +14.0... but... 5 games is not so big a sample. At 437 possessions the ± in that net rating from statistical noise alone is about 12, the true talent level disparity could have been as small as 2 points per 100 possessions. Paints a pretty different picture, eh?

3. Fit matters.
It's easy to say Carmelo is a fine player, LeBron is a fine player, therefore Carmelo + LeBron = huge success. But as I've tried to drill into you people time and again, Miami is the exception that proves the rule: superteams are hard to make work. Barkley didn't mesh with Olajuwon, Kobe didn't mesh with Dwight or Nash. Carmelo and LeBron are friends already, at least, but they could not function together. We know how Wade and Bosh would have reacted to playing with LeBron, because we had 4 years of evidence. How will Irving react to LeBron coming back to Cleveland? How will they share the court?

4. Read what I said.
I said Cleveland was a worse option than Miami. Nate projects them to have 0.8 more wins. I guarantee you this is smaller than the PSPS's margin of error, and taken with all the points made above I absolutely stand by what I said.

.

And two final notes: WAABAAB is an exquisite coinage. Z-Lowe is not.

Keller

07-11-2014, 04:54 PM

Spurs swept the Heat in the finals in embarrassing fashion. There is no sample size that says the Heat are even competitive with the Spurs.

And the Pacers are young and getting better every year. The Heat were old and getting worse every year.

Lebron made a tremendous move that will benefit him personally (both emotionally and reputationally) and professionally (better teammates, better coaching staff).

Parkbandit

07-11-2014, 06:14 PM

Latrinsorm

07-11-2014, 06:19 PM

Spurs swept the Heat in the finals in embarrassing fashion. There is no sample size that says the Heat are even competitive with the Spurs.The last great statistical frontier in sports is quantifying sample size. Ted Williams' .406 is sacrosanct, but it is also .406 ± .046, and suddenly it's indistinguishable from George Brett's .390 ± .046 (and even Ichiro's .372 ± .036!). Everyone knows the phrase "small sample size", but as of yet the magnitude of the idea hasn't really penetrated the lay person's brain. How big is random noise in a game, in a series, in a season? It turns out that even in a best of seven series it is, to use a technical term, pretty doggone big.
And the Pacers are young and getting better every year. The Heat were old and getting worse every year.Ha! Ha!

Surely we can agree that David West and Georgie are not getting better.
Surely we can agree that Roy Hibbert will be lucky to regain peak form, let alone improve upon it.
Surely we can agree that Lance could very easily not be on the team next year.
Surely we can agree that Indiana has an established track record of failing to deploy quality free agents (either via signing or playing).

An awful lot to lay on Paul George, would you not say?
Lebron made a tremendous move that will benefit him personally (both emotionally and reputationally) and professionally (better teammates, better coaching staff).LeBron and I adjudged the talent in 2010 Miami as elite, and we were right. LeBron and I adjudge the talent in 2014 Cleveland as inferior to 2014 Miami. It remains to be seen if we will be right.

.

I would really like to know the details of LeBron's contract. Rumors are they'll settle on the 4 year max ($88m), but what he actually decides could have significant ramifications.

Warriorbird

07-11-2014, 06:25 PM

As predicted Latrin has a new team to be a fan of.

Latrinsorm

07-11-2014, 06:38 PM

I'm a fan of basketball. And lady soccer. And Flash dress-up, which if all goes to plan will be a demonstration sport at the 2026 Olympics. (Why a winter sport? Because FORGET YOU, that's why!!!)

Warriorbird

07-11-2014, 06:41 PM

I'm a fan of basketball. And lady soccer. And Flash dress-up, which if all goes to plan will be a demonstration sport at the 2026 Olympics. (Why a winter sport? Because FORGET YOU, that's why!!!)

So Cutie Honey was a sports film to you? Is that what you're saying?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutie_Honey

Latrinsorm

07-11-2014, 06:44 PM

So Cutie Honey was a sports film to you? Is that what you're saying?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutie_HoneyNot Web 2.0 enough. More like Semi-Pro than Blue Chips. Is Bob Cousy in Cutie Honey? No. QED.

Kembal

07-11-2014, 06:50 PM

...Houston is getting trolled at this point. No Bosh?

Warriorbird

07-11-2014, 06:54 PM

Not Web 2.0 enough. More like Semi-Pro than Blue Chips. Is Bob Cousy in Cutie Honey? No. QED.

http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llhlqrpefe1qacqfvo1_500.gif

SHAFT

07-11-2014, 07:10 PM

6779

Latrinsorm

07-11-2014, 07:22 PM

^ why is that GIF so fast?
...Houston is getting trolled at this point. No Bosh?I was surprised by that as well. However, I think LeBron has kept Miami from fully reloading. They have space now but it's too late to get Gortat, Hawes, Frye; Hayward, Parsons; Lowry, Blake, Collison, Harris; Swaggy P. Also, the gravity of LeBron compels people to Cleveland rather than Miami now.

I would say a team built on Bosh packed with Miami muscle is the current favorite for the #3 seed, would be a very tough out for the new look LeBron and LeBronettes, and could very easily reach the #2 if the Cavs have adjustment issues lasting longer than 17 games (which is almost certainly a given). With all that said, LeBron's goal is a championship for Cleveland, and with himself and Irving under contract for years to come he doesn't have to fixate on next year... but I still think it'd be easier to draw free agents to LeBron + Bosh in Miami than to LeBron + Kyrie in Cleveland.

Warriorbird

07-11-2014, 07:46 PM

^ why is that GIF so fast?

FLASH dress up, yo.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a2/New_cutie_honey.jpg

Methais

07-11-2014, 07:57 PM

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/p640x640/10306318_10204407639015662_3984667091027617489_n.j pg

Keller

07-13-2014, 10:00 AM

The last great statistical frontier in sports is quantifying sample size. Ted Williams' .406 is sacrosanct, but it is also .406 ± .046

Ted Williams could have batted .452 - that is fucking nuts. Best season in baseball ever. I never realized how great his season was. Thanks, Latrin.

Keller

07-13-2014, 10:10 AM

Surely we can agree that David West and Georgie are not getting better.

West is in his prime - and when he begins to decline, he's not going to decline nearly as fast as Wade is.

George Hill can't help but get better (for the same reason Anthony Bennett is a shoe-in for most improved player next year) - but I doubt he'll be on the team to start the season.

Surely we can agree that Roy Hibbert will be lucky to regain peak form, let alone improve upon it.

Hibbert will dry his eyes and get over PG fucking his fiancee. Either that or he'll be traded. I don't think Larry Bird has the stomach for girlish behavior like that.

Surely we can agree that Lance could very easily not be on the team next year.

Lance was a big reason why the Pacers lost pace of the 72-win Bulls last year. His selfish play was a cancer to the team. Good riddance!

Surely we can agree that Indiana has an established track record of failing to deploy quality free agents (either via signing or playing).

Don't fault Larry Bird for being a draft savant. He's not going to apologize for not needing to resort to free agency like Pat Riley.

But seriously - can we talk about how embarrassed Pat Riley has to be right now? Imagine if a team chasing Peyton Manning in 2012 had signed Willis McGahee and Legadu Nanee - that would have been more convincing than Pat signing Danny Granger and Josh McRoberts. If Pat knew how to draft like Larry, then maybe they wouldn't need to deplay "quality" free agents. (for the record - I think Shabazz was a great pick - but that's Lebron's pick and not Pat's)

Warriorbird

07-13-2014, 10:19 AM

Ted Williams could have batted .452 - that is fucking nuts. Best season in baseball ever. I never realized how great his season was. Thanks, Latrin.

Randomly meeting him with my Grandma in Florida (and getting his autograph) was one of the coolest moments I had as a tiny baseball fan. He still seemed to truly love the game and bantered with me for like 20-25 minutes about modern (for the time) baseball.

Atlanteax

07-14-2014, 08:28 AM

Randomly meeting him with my Grandma in Florida (and getting his autograph) was one of the coolest moments I had as a tiny baseball fan. He still seemed to truly love the game and bantered with me for like 20-25 minutes about modern (for the time) baseball.

I met Al Kaline and got his signature myself. But I was too young at the time to fully appreciate the moment.

Latrinsorm

07-14-2014, 03:49 PM

Deng (http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/11210494/luol-deng-joining-miami-heat) to Heat, but the interesting part to me is the salary figures so far revealed.

Bosh $22m
Wade ??
Deng $10m
Andersen $10m
Chalmers $8m
Haslem $3m
Cole $2m

McRoberts $5m (exception)
Granger $2m (exception)

It looks to me like the Heat are straying into luxury tax land already. $62m only leaves $15m per year for Wade, plus they have to fill out the rest of the roster with bodies, and even rookie minimums are half a million each. The irony is that one reported annoyance to James was the Heat amnestying Miller to avoid tax payments.

Regardless, though, the Heat are shaping up very strong next year. Given the adjustment period needed for the Cavs (especially if they get Love too), I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Heat finish the regular season #1. Deng's not LeBron, but he's a capable defender and with Chalmers coming back the Heat will still have a surplus of playmaking. His playing time needs to be juggled with Wade's because neither can shoot, but it can work especially with Bosh and McRoberts providing spacing from the big positions.

Indiana has done nothing so far, and treading water is falling behind. Damjan Rudez is a big man who can shoot, but they already refused to play Copeland so I'm not sure what the point of signing him is. They still haven't gotten Lance, and you have to think that the longer it goes the more teams will be left with cap space after failing to get primary targets and say "ah screw it, here's 4 years 60 mil".

The Bulls got Pau, which is an even bigger deal than OKC because Chicago's backup center was (still) Nazr Mohammad and they don't have 1 transcendent offensive talent to lift their moribund "system", let alone 2. Losing Augustin is a blow, but I think they can challenge Indy, Washington, and Toronto for the #3 seed.

Warriorbird

07-14-2014, 04:07 PM

I met Al Kaline and got his signature myself. But I was too young at the time to fully appreciate the moment.

That must've been an awesome Tiger moment to have either way.

TheEschaton

07-14-2014, 09:02 PM

So, are there any Prodigal Son references to this move yet? I should write fucking Nike ads.

Anebriated

07-14-2014, 09:13 PM

Skimmed through to catch up so maybe I missed it already.

Lebron got to the finals and did NOT win in '07, '11, '14.

Lebron signs with cleveland as a FA on 7/11/14.

coincidence?

Keller

07-14-2014, 09:34 PM

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Heat finish the regular season #1.

Well done, young padawan. You may become a decent troll after all.

SHAFT

07-14-2014, 09:41 PM

Skimmed through to catch up so maybe I missed it already.

Lebron got to the finals and did NOT win in '07, '11, '14.

Lebron signs with cleveland as a FA on 7/11/14.

coincidence?

This means the Cavs will never make the playoffs again. Ever.

Methais

07-14-2014, 11:41 PM

Skimmed through to catch up so maybe I missed it already.

Lebron got to the finals and did NOT win in '07, '11, '14.

Lebron signs with cleveland as a FA on 7/11/14.

coincidence?

In before 5 page Latrinalysis.

RSR

07-14-2014, 11:44 PM

In before 5 page Latrinalysis.

Don't even think about taking the 'anal' out of Latranalysis.

Ker_Thwap

07-15-2014, 10:17 AM

Is this the first time any free agent in any sport has chosen to go to Cleveland?

Allereli

07-15-2014, 10:28 AM

Is this the first time any free agent in any sport has chosen to go to Cleveland?

not just the free agent world, not just in sport

Methais

07-15-2014, 11:28 AM

Is this the first time any free agent in any sport has chosen to go to Cleveland?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3-i_8usTMtY/TjWy-DxzQkI/AAAAAAAAAzQ/zBwjnzTcJgk/s320/howard_the_duck_xl_01-film-b1.jpg

Not actually by choice, but he did choose to stay in Cleveland which is just as bad.

Ardwen

07-15-2014, 11:49 AM

looks like reports have The Heat overpaying Wade at 15m per year. He needs to go to one of those German clinics for a miracle recovery from age or something to be worth that

Anebriated

07-15-2014, 12:01 PM

Is this the first time any free agent in any sport has chosen to go to Cleveland?

Not sure this counts as choosing Cleveland. Its more choosing home which just happens to be Cleveland.

Atlanteax

07-15-2014, 01:41 PM

Latrinsorm

07-15-2014, 01:46 PM

looks like reports have The Heat overpaying Wade at 15m per year. He needs to go to one of those German clinics for a miracle recovery from age or something to be worth thatIt turns out I misunderstood Chalmers' contract: it's not $8m total but $8m over two years, so that $15m and the other roster spot minimums puts them ever so close to but not quite in the tax. Same old Miami!

Long article by Bill Simmons today about how Carmelo is underrated. There have been 9 players with career USGs of 30 or higher (although USG can only be calculated from 1978-present, Wilt probably hit 40), and their PER-USGs look like this:

-3.8 LeBron
-5.4 Jordan
-6.0 Durant (also stands the best chance of getting under 30 by the end of his career)
-6.6 Wade
-8.4 Kobe
-8.7 Dominique
-9.0 Gervin (NBA only)
-10.5 Carmelo
-10.9 Iverson

± stats only go back to 2000, and here are the players of that set whose careers were mostly covered by that:

+11.2 LeBron
+7.8 Wade
+6.7 Kobe
+3.9 Iverson
+2.4 Durant (his first two years were atrocious, but even taking them out only gets him to +6.5)
+1.9 Carmelo

Carmelo is properly rated. He's a good scorer and rebounder, he takes too many shots, he's a historically terrible playmaker, he doesn't play defense, his teams have won as many playoff rounds since he's been in the NBA as the Spurs have won titles, and as his ± indicates you can't blame it all on teammates. The Dirk comparisons just have to stop.

Latrinsorm

07-15-2014, 01:48 PM

I would argue that LeBron did not choose Cleveland so much as it being a 2-year contract with a player option...

Part of me wonder if LeBron is 'done' chasing for Championships like he did for 4 years in Miami...My interpretation of his essay is that he feels his place in history is secure, which he should because it's factually correct. All he wants is one championship for Cleveland, if he gets that he'll be satisfied. If he gets more that's fine too, obviously, but it's not the goal.

Anebriated

07-15-2014, 01:53 PM

Im sure he had other 2 year contracts with a player option for the 3rd year. In fact I would argue that he could have received that offer from any team that was pursuing him.

And no, I would think he is going to re-evaluate in a few years but will most likely stay.

Methais

07-16-2014, 10:35 AM

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=747745191933537&id=344709878903739

Latrinsorm

07-16-2014, 12:52 PM

Stephenson to Charlotte. In a bizarre twist, it turns out he wanted LESS years than Indiana wanted to give him, but the entire situation has been bizarre from the beginning. The reason he was an unrestricted free agent to begin with was that he was...
-a second round success story (rare)
-signed to a 4 year deal out of the draft (rare but becoming less so)
-on a team that picked up its option for the fourth year (compare to Chandler Parsons)

And here's an interesting factoid: Stephenson led the Pacers with 4.6 assists per game (and with an okay 1.7 AST/TOV ratio). This was the lowest for any team-leading playing in the NBA, and the only other team with a player under five was the friggin' Bucks with Knight's 4.9. Miles and Rudez are shooters, not playmakers, and that's assuming they even get on the court. Indiana already had a terrible offense and painfully overextended Paul George, what the heck are they going to do now?

.

Kawhi says "thanks but no thanks" to the United States of America, which would give an interesting dark subtext to the Spurs' internationalism if anyone ever criticized the Spurs for any reason. Say what you will about LeBron, but he's been to four international competitions: 3 Olympics and a World Championship (now World Cup). The great Tim Duncan? Only one, and in America's 2004 loss to Argentina he managed 10 points, 6 rebounds, no assists, 3 turnovers, fouled out (leading coach Popovich to publicly complain about the officiating), then gave up on international competition. This put a permanent stain on his reputation... wait, strike that, it was LeBron who got all the criticism, even though he received a whopping 3 minutes of playing time against the Argentines. Also inexplicably emerging unscathed was Carmelo Anthony, who guaranteed (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/athens/basketball/2004-07-26-carmelo-guarantee_x.htm) a gold medal.

Bottom line, Kawhi is 23. Man up.

Atlanteax

07-16-2014, 03:38 PM

I think Kawhi said 'no' because he hates being in the spotlight, which Olympics generate.

Anebriated

07-16-2014, 03:56 PM

I think Kawhi said 'no' because he hates being in the spotlight, which Olympics generate.

This theory would throw a major wrench into Latrinsorm's hatred of the people that brought Lebron down.

Latrinsorm

07-16-2014, 05:34 PM

I don't hate anybody. What I dislike is the flagrant double standard. Kawhi ducks out on playing for Team USA and people make excuses. If LeBron had he would have been torn apart.

Anebriated

07-16-2014, 05:58 PM

Latrinsorm

07-16-2014, 08:18 PM

Kawhi isn't considered the best player in the game.

edit: you are trying to argue that a 10 time all star/4x league MVP/2x Champion should be held at the same standard as a 23 year old kid who has been in the league for what, 3 seasons?The comparison would have been LeBron not playing in the 2008 Olympics, when he was 23. Compare: 4 All-Stars, 0 MVPs, 0 rings to 0 All-Stars, 0 MVPs, 1 ring & 1 FMVP. I'm saying all people should receive praise for the good they do and criticism for the bad:

Kawhi wins FMVP - he's a superstar.
Kawhi skips out on Team USA - you're expecting too much from him.
No matter what he does he wins.

LeBron's team wins - he was carried / he cheated to get on a good team / he got lucky.
LeBron's team loses - he's a choke job artist, he doesn't really want to win.
No matter what he does he loses.

That's no good.

Latrinsorm

07-16-2014, 11:26 PM

And here's an interesting factoid: Stephenson led the Pacers with 4.6 assists per game (and with an okay 1.7 AST/TOV ratio). This was the lowest for any team-leading playing in the NBA, and the only other team with a player under five was the friggin' Bucks with Knight's 4.9. Miles and Rudez are shooters, not playmakers, and that's assuming they even get on the court. Indiana already had a terrible offense and painfully overextended Paul George, what the heck are they going to do now?Whoops, nevermind guys, the Pacers got Rodney Stuckey for the veteran's minimum. Problem solved.

A brisk 0.787 points per long jumper.
A robust 2.1 assists per game last year. (Although his career ast/tov ratio is a very legit 2.0.)
Couldn't break the starting lineup for the Detroit Pistons last year.
Has a career on/off of +1.0.

Larry's still got it!

Anebriated

07-17-2014, 02:50 AM

1 season does not make a player. Leonard didnt look anything like the player he was for Popovich before Popovich. Same can be said for his play as a Spur before the playoffs. Same again can be said for his play during the finals.

Latrinsorm

07-17-2014, 06:06 PM

Bizarre poll (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11228655/harris-poll-lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-most-popular-male-athlete) released today. The top 5 most popular male athletes are:
1. LeBron James
2. Michael Jordan
3. Derek Jeter
4. Peyton Manning
5. Kobe Bryant and Dale Earnhardt Jr. (tie)

Only one football player is bizarre, although that might be a consequence of no decent football player in New York or Los Angeles. Michael Jordan still being on the list is incredibly bizarre. Just goes to show how many people really don't care about sports, I guess.

.

I was wrong about Indiana, and now the Lakers have scored a similar coup: Carlos Boozer! It's all happening! Ring #6 is on the way! Look at this starting 5...
Jeremy Lin
Kobe Bryant
Julius Randle
Carlos Boozer
Jordan Hill

Watch out, Western Conference! By the way, add in Steve Nash's contract and the Lakers are at $59.2m in salary plus whatever they won Boozer with. The salary cap is $63.1m. Have fun with that.

.

The Cavs have added Mike Miller and James Jones, so they'll have some shooting off the bench at least. Right now their rotation looks like...
point Irving ?Dellavedova?
wing Wiggins LeBron Waiters Miller Jones
big Varejao Thompson Bennett
...so they've still got some work to do, but their wing platoon looks workable at least.

Anebriated

07-17-2014, 06:11 PM

If I remember correctly the cap numbers dont become official until the last day of the season in the NBA so they have time before they have to worry about it. Plus teams like my sixers have a TON of room under the floor so I wouldnt be surprised to see a Nash to Philly trade for a 1st rounder or something of that sort.

and on the same note if Cleveland is still planning on taking a run at Love then Varejao will be in a similar situation as Nash.

Latrinsorm

07-18-2014, 01:34 PM

Bledsoe refuses to sign $48m/4yr deal, wants the max $80m/5yr. This seems like over-reaching a little bit.

Last year he averaged 17 points, 4 rebounds, and 5 assists per game. It doesn't sound like much but it's respectable: in the past decade only 30 players have done so over a full season, and only 14 have more than once...

10 LeBron
5 Kobe, Wade
4 Paul
3 Curry, Iguodala, Joe Johnson, McGrady, Westbrook
2 Arenas, Baron Davis, Evans, Harden, Roy

...but the key phrase there is "full season". Bledsoe has never played 2000 MP (or lockout equivalent) in any season. The most Win Shares he ever generated was last year's 4.3, worth about $6m. Therefore the $12m a year is already an enormous overpay, it's not at all clear he'll be healthy for any of those years let alone five of them, Phoenix's acquisition of Isaiah Thomas (the other one) makes point guard a position of strength for them, the lack of pursuit from other teams puts him in a position of weakness. One tiny wrinkle is that Bledsoe has the same agent as LeBron James (also Tristan Thompson, Kevin Seraphin, and Cory Joseph) and the Cavs could use another point guard, but they probably can't afford him and I haven't seen any reports indicating they are interested.

.

But the big story today is: what number (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11231891/lebron-james-undecided-cleveland-cavaliers-jersey-number) will LeBron wear in Cleveland? The Cavs have a surprisingly high number of retired numbers, but 6 23 and 32 are all still available. 23 makes no sense, I would go with 32, plus then he might get two numbers retired by one team which would be pretty cool. He's obviously going to get his number retired by two teams, joining Kareem, Barkley, Wilt (3), Drexler, Erving, Jordan, Lanier, Moses, Maravich, Monroe, Oscar, and Thurmond.

Latrinsorm

07-19-2014, 10:43 PM

Watch out, Western Conference! By the way, add in Steve Nash's contract and the Lakers are at $59.2m in salary plus whatever they won Boozer with. The salary cap is $63.1m. Have fun with that.Because of their lack of cap room, the Lakers "had to" waive Kendall Marshall, who was promptly snapped up by the Bucks. It's not like he's a great player or anything, but when your other options are Jeremy Lin and 40 year old Steve Nash, it seems like he'd be nice to have on the roster at $0.9m...

...unless you were planning on losing. A lot. Just throwing this out there: the Lakers only keep their 1st round pick next year if it falls in the top 5. Even if they were trying they'd have to get lucky to make the playoffs in the West, so they've apparently opted for outright tanking. Hate to beat a dead horse here, but when $23m for Kobe keeps you from making a plausible offer to any marquee free agent, then you make the genius move to absorb Lin's $15m for two crummy picks, what else could you expect to happen?

Latrinsorm

07-23-2014, 04:02 PM

More interesting news in backup point guarding:

Aaron Brooks to the Bulls - potentially enormous move. Brooks is an elite 3 point shooter when spotting up and an atrocious one otherwise, has decent but not spectacular point numbers, is a notorious head case who has been traded midseason three straight years, and is undersized and poor on defense. But! The potential is there, and if anyone can get it out of him it's Gregg Popovich, but if anyone other than he could get it out of him it's Thibs.

John Lucas III to the Cavs - probably just for salary matching with the Wolves, but even if that falls through they'll have a plausible backup point guard. Nothing incredible, but fills a need.

Anebriated

07-23-2014, 04:16 PM

The talk in Philly is that Waiters will come here along with some contracts the Bucks want to get rid of as part of the Love to Cavs deal . Lucas III could be to fill that opening.

Latrinsorm

07-23-2014, 04:43 PM

Yikes. Thanks, 76ers!

Anebriated

07-23-2014, 04:51 PM

Im guessing we will end up with a first round pick or something to go with it, especially if we end up shipping Thad Young to the Bucks as was mentioned.

Latrinsorm

07-29-2014, 02:44 PM

I talked once (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?76285-NBA-2013-Season-Thread-for-NBA-Talking&p=1506796#post1506796) a long time ago about 3Pr in the Finals, and here's the updated graph with the past two years:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v456/johnnyoldschool/NBAFinals3PAperFGA2014_zps72ba4be3.png

And here's the graph less the short 3 years with a linear regression:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v456/johnnyoldschool/NBAFinals3PAperFGA2014b_zps32bfd0fe.png

Pretty incredible! Some interesting factoids:
1. The two highest 3Pr champions of all time both beat the Heat; or, the only way to beat the Heat was to chuck 3s at historic levels.
2. The team to shoot a better 3P% has now won the championship in 13 of the past 14 years. Before that it was 6 of 11 and and 3 of 10.
3. The last team to win the championship taking 15% or fewer FGAs from three was the 1993 Bulls.

And finally, the last Finalist to take 15% or fewer FGAs from three was the 2005 Pistons, who matched up against the first team to break 25% (from the full distance) in the Spurs. This was the first post-Robinson Finals for the Spurs, and their Finals rotation changed dramatically:

2003
point Parker, Claxton (0 3PA)
wing Bowen, Ginobili, Jackson
big Duncan, Robinson, Rose (1 3PA)

2005
point Parker
wing Bowen, Ginobili, Horry (31 3PA), Barry (16 3PA)
big Duncan, Mohammed

Behold, the ascension of small ball. Since 2005, 16 of the 18 Finalists have been above the NBA average in 3Pr. It's fitting that the culmination of this, finally topping the short three numbers, came with the Spurs again.

Latrinsorm

07-29-2014, 03:58 PM

basketball-reference.com has on/off data going back to 2001, so I figured... why not look at MVPs in that span?

2001 Iverson +4.1
2002 Duncan +9.4
2003 Duncan +14.7
2004 Garnett +20.7
2005 Nash +14.9
2006 Nash +9.1
2007 Dirk +12.5
2008 Bryant +7.0 (Paul +9.1)
2009 James +21.2
2010 James +16.8
2011 Rose +2.7 (Gasol +9.5, James +9.0, Dwight +8.8, Duncan +7.5, Parker -0.4, Ginobili +13.2)
2012 James +14.0
2013 James +15.3
2014 Durant +6.0 (James +6.8)

Just another way Rose was never that good, so people should listen to Frankie and just relax about da Bulls.

Latrinsorm

07-29-2014, 05:55 PM

I had a sudden thought. Kevin Love has played 364 of a possible 476 games, why don't we see what the Twolves record was with and without him?

With: 125 and 239, 34.3%
Without: 28 and 84, 25.0%

In the past three years only...
With: 72 and 78, 48.0%
Without: 25 and 55, 31.3%

Not statistically significant differences at 95%, but pretty reasonable evidence that his supporting cast was horrible.

Latrinsorm

08-02-2014, 03:46 PM

Tough news for Paul George and the Pacers. Useful to illustrate the power of narratives though...

If Indy does well: supporters will say "see, we really were contenders!"
If Indy does poorly: supports will say "see, Paul George really is a superstar!"

I was already expecting Indiana to get a 5ish seed due to the loss of Lance and the improvement in the rest of the East. In a weird way I don't think losing George too will hurt them that much more. They were already making noise about (finally) playing Copeland at small forward, now they'll have to, and they'll also have to feed Hibbert in the post. I expect a huge year for him, in much the same way Marc Gasol had a huge year in 2013 with the Rudy Gay injury.

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The main reason I watched last night's scrimmage was to get a bead on Derrick Rose. Anyone can watch the highlights and see that his athleticism is still there, and that he's still a terror in the open court, which is great. In the half court, however, he's still very limited. I counted 28 half court possessions, of which he assisted or finished 13 plays, which generated 7 total points. 0.538 is a terrible points per play number, and he didn't touch the ball at all on 7 possessions. To be fair he was playing in a scrimmage for Team USA against Team USA, and it is a very small sample - if Korver and DeRozan hit their 3s then he's up to 1.000. But the burden of proof is on those who feel he's an MVP caliber player, because he never has been before.

I also saw five lapses on defense, and what was more troubling was that three of them were the same mistake: last man back in transition, letting an opposing player just run by him. Once he just went to sleep, twice he gambled for steals, and one of those he successfully picked off. That's the one you see in the highlights, but trading two layups for one steal isn't good math. The other lapses were being back cut and fouling Harden on a switch on a three point attempt. Those you can brush off as isolated incidents, they happen to everyone sooner or later. The three make a pattern, and a bad one for (again) a player who has never proven himself to be even an above-average defender.

Two other things I noticed: the crowd LOVED Derrick Rose to a really bizarre level, even chanting "MVP" as he took free throws. Thibodeau exhorted Harden on defense to a really bizarre level, demanding that he push up on Rose 30 feet from the basket. Harden's defense is notorious, but it's still a weird directive.

Look forward to the rest of Team USA's games!

Keller

08-05-2014, 05:56 PM

Lebron says he cut carbs, but you've got to imagine most of the weight he's lost is due to the fact that he's no longer carrying Dwayne Wade.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuSDxFvIYAAM2Or.png:large

Latrinsorm

08-06-2014, 11:34 AM

It seems like a dramatic change, although I don't have a real frame of reference for universe class athletes two months into the offseason. It also makes sense if he is transforming himself back into a small forward. The Heat had no real option for 3rd big besides him: Haslem was washed up, Lewis and Battier have always been wing players, Joel Anthony can't play offense, the less said about 2011 the better. The Cavs have Varejao and Love as legit NBA bigs, plus Thompson. He can't space the floor (with either hand) but he draws fouls (and has a much improved FT%) and gets offensive rebounds. His difficulty finishing at the rim and playing defense is troubling, but all in all he's an average player at the minimum. Modern NBA teams play 3 bigs, so LeBron should slide back to small forward. Done and done.