A question for the ladies. Planning a first date.

[Ker_Thwap]

We've agreed to meet, in a town near her, for dinner or lunch... this is how the scenario plays out every single time.

Me: I'm retired, I have craploads of free time; you appear to work, have family and social commitments. It would be far easier for you to pick the time.
Her: Hmm, what time is good for you?
Me: Yeah, I'm still retired here, so any time at all between 6 am and midnight is pretty much good for me, and even that is flexible if you give me warning.
Her: Hmm, why don't you choose a day?
Me: Fine, three days from today.
Her: Nope, busy.
Me: Can I buy a damned vowel here? What days do you have off? Do you like to go out after work? When are you free?

... twenty questions later, I'm intimately acquainted with her social calendar and I pin down the only free two hour window she has available in the next two weeks.

Why are the women I meet incapable of choosing the time for a first date? Is there some primal instinct where the man must arrange every single detail of the first date? Is this the modern equivalent of clubbing them and dragging them off by the hair? Is there some sort of anti efficiency movement I haven't been told about? Is this some kind of pointless game like pin the tail on the donkey?

[Tgo01]

I'll tell you the only thing I've learned about women in my lifetime.

[Tisket]

Maybe she's not really interested in you? I don't mean that as an insult, just that, when I was really interested in a guy I found time to see him as soon as possible.

But then again, playing hard to get was never something I did well.

lol

[Warriorbird]

We've agreed to meet, in a town near her, for dinner or lunch... this is how the scenario plays out every single time.

Me: I'm retired, I have craploads of free time; you appear to work, have family and social commitments. It would be far easier for you to pick the time.
Her: Hmm, what time is good for you?
Me: Yeah, I'm still retired here, so any time at all between 6 am and midnight is pretty much good for me, and even that is flexible if you give me warning.
Her: Hmm, why don't you choose a day?
Me: Fine, three days from today.
Her: Nope, busy.
Me: Can I buy a damned vowel here? What days do you have off? Do you like to go out after work? When are you free?

... twenty questions later, I'm intimately acquainted with her social calendar and I pin down the only free two hour window she has available in the next two weeks.

Why are the women I meet incapable of choosing the time for a first date? Is there some primal instinct where the man must arrange every single detail of the first date? Is this the modern equivalent of clubbing them and dragging them off by the hair? Is there some sort of anti efficiency movement I haven't been told about? Is this some kind of pointless game like pin the tail on the donkey?

Not a lady but sometimes they're hyper committed but still feel like they want to have you choose it. Just ask them when they're free right off. It was annoying when I had a relatively open schedule and was dating people who didn't, so I get it.

[Ker_Thwap]

Maybe she's not really interested in you? I don't mean that as an insult, just that, when I was really interested in a guy I found time to see him as soon as possible.

But then again, playing hard to get was never something I did well.

lol

I suppose it's possible they aren't into me, but this is at a stage of the conversation where we've already hit it off somewhat and decided to meet. Sometimes it is a soon as possible situation, but they still make me pick the damned time.

It's also happened maybe 15 out of 16 times. One of them even told me she was really impressed that I was considerate of her time, and yet still wouldn't choose the time!

[Ker_Thwap]

Not a lady buy sometimes they're hyper committed but still feel like they want to have you choose it. Just ask them when they're free right off. It was annoying when I had a relatively open schedule and was dating people who didn't, so I get it.

Well, I am asking them when they're free right off. That's kind of my point.

[Warriorbird]

Well, I am asking them when they're free right off. That's kind of my point.

That's pretty crazy but not surprising. It happened to me, post divorce, in an entirely different age range. Must just be one of those mystifying female things or maybe they wait till that moment to decide whether they actually want to go out with you or not.

[Tisket]

The answer is hookers.

Simple.

[Ker_Thwap]

The answer is hookers.

Simple.

Porn has ruined hookers for me. Alas.

[Gweneivia]

It's probably some weird social thing ingrained in us that we have no real idea where it comes from. For me, I can never eat the last bite of my meal. I have no idea why. Even if I'm not all that full, I look at that bite and go, "ugh." I never get the clean plate club :(

[cwolff]

I suppose it's possible they aren't into me, but this is at a stage of the conversation where we've already hit it off somewhat and decided to meet. Sometimes it is a soon as possible situation, but they still make me pick the damned time.

It's also happened maybe 15 out of 16 times. One of them even told me she was really impressed that I was considerate of her time, and yet still wouldn't choose the time!

Tisket's trying to break it to you gently. Appreciate that and listen to her. What you're describing = girl not into you. If the girl is in to you, she'll warp space-time to get together. You've got time on your hands and your hand on a keyboard. Google it. You can learn to be romantic just like you can learn anything else.

[Tsk Tsk]

She might just like decisive men. You might think you're being sweet by leaving it up to her.. but don't make it tougher than it is. Just keep throwing out dates and times, and make light if they don't work out/she's busy.

[waywardgs]

Just wait in your car outside her house day and night, record all her movements in a notebook, follow her when she leaves, compile a detailed report of her whereabouts and present the report with a present of a jar full of her clipped toenails you salvaged from her trash. This will help her with her schedule.

[Tsk Tsk]

Just wait in your car outside her house day and night, record all her movements in a notebook, follow her when she leaves, compile a detailed report of her whereabouts and present the report with a present of a jar full of her clipped toenails you salvaged from her trash. This will help her with her schedule.

This is also a good plan. It will also show that you're a dedicated kind of guy!

[Taernath]

Why are the women I meet incapable of choosing the time for a first date? Is there some primal instinct where the man must arrange every single detail of the first date? Is this the modern equivalent of clubbing them and dragging them off by the hair? Is there some sort of anti efficiency movement I haven't been told about? Is this some kind of pointless game like pin the tail on the donkey?

You should run. Far. This is how women determine your psychic powerlevel. If it takes too long to guess a good day/time combo, they know your psychic abilities are low and you're vulnerable to the classic 'what's wrong?'/'NOTHING' argument, among others.

[BriarFox]

Don't be wishy-washy. Declare gender roles dead all you want, but women like a confident man. Go into these things with two or three dates and options in mind, e.g. "Come out with me on Friday at 7; I'll make reservations at Awesome Place. I love the X dish there and I want to share it with you."

[Ker_Thwap]

Tisket's trying to break it to you gently. Appreciate that and listen to her. What you're describing = girl not into you. If the girl is in to you, she'll warp space-time to get together. You've got time on your hands and your hand on a keyboard. Google it. You can learn to be romantic just like you can learn anything else.

Yeah, like I said. This is after we've already determined that we're into each other and want to meet. I'm not asking for dating advice. Just asking for some female perspective on a trend I haven't figured out yet.

[Gompers]

Is there some primal instinct where the man must arrange every single detail of the first date?

Maybe you should try a more assertive role. I'm sure that you've heard this before, but most women prefer confident men. Next time, don't beat around the bush. Make decisions and give her the timeline. If they start getting all "schedule packed", smile and tell her to give you a call sometime whenever she has time to (insert previous decision here) with you. Then find someone else, and let her call you.

The dating game sucks - it sucks even more when you're older. Put a lot of lines in the water - you'll have a better chance of catching a nice fish that way.

[diethx]

Maybe you should try a more assertive role. I'm sure that you've heard this before, but most women prefer confident men. Next time, don't beat around the bush. Make decisions and give her the timeline. If they start getting all "schedule packed", smile and tell her to give you a call sometime whenever she has time to (insert previous decision here) with you. Then find someone else, and let her call you.

The dating game sucks - it sucks even more when you're older. Put a lot of lines in the water - you'll have a better chance of catching a nice fish that way.

Except sometimes a lady's schedule really is just packed and it's not some sort of head game. It's bad timing. For example, I met someone last week that's been very assertive about trying to take me out and suggesting dates/times, but unfortunately I have an odd week ahead and I've got plans nearly every day. I was upfront about it and because I like him, I'm going to try to move stuff around. I'm not playing some dumb game, and she isn't necessarily doing so either.

Unless of course, her schedule is vague-yet-full for the indeterminate future, and then yeah, she's not into you. Or she's scared to meet you because of whatever, so she's putting it off but keeping you on the line. In either of those cases, it's not worth it.

[Ker_Thwap]

She might just like decisive men. You might think you're being sweet by leaving it up to her.. but don't make it tougher than it is. Just keep throwing out dates and times, and make light if they don't work out/she's busy.

Heh, I've picked up on the fact that women like bad boys, and decisive men even when they explicitly state in their profile that they don't like that kind of behavior. I'm just trying to work out a method of picking a time and place that doesn't involve twenty questions.

I'm not really willing to be less than courteous, I'm probably too set in my ways to attempt to behave differently at this stage in my life. (I can be aggressive and decisive when the situation demands it, but I just don't think it's necessary to set a time for a meeting.)

[cwolff]

Yeah, like I said. This is after we've already determined that we're into each other and want to meet. I'm not asking for dating advice. Just asking for some female perspective on a trend I haven't figured out yet.

Oh my bad. Good luck with the ladies.

[Ker_Thwap]

Except sometimes a lady's schedule really is just packed and it's not some sort of head game. It's bad timing. For example, I met someone last week that's been very assertive about trying to take me out and suggesting dates/times, but unfortunately I have an odd week ahead and I've got plans nearly every day. I was upfront about it and because I like him, I'm going to try to move stuff around. I'm not playing some dumb game, and she isn't necessarily doing so either.

Unless of course, her schedule is vague-yet-full for the indeterminate future, and then yeah, she's not into you. Or she's scared to meet you because of whatever, so she's putting it off but keeping you on the line. In either of those cases, it's not worth it.

Thanks. I try to remove the "scared" factor by suggesting a restaurant rather than a hike in the deep woods with no one but me around (even though the hike would be my preference.) I can see the one stringing me along not being worth it, but I'd hate to cut someone off because they're nervous or scared. I'll have to work something else into the script to figure out the difference on the fly.

[Laviticas]

Thanks. I try to remove the "scared" factor by suggesting a restaurant rather than a hike in the deep woods with no one but me around (even though the hike would be my preference.) I can see the one stringing me along not being worth it, but I'd hate to cut someone off because they're nervous or scared. I'll have to work something else into the script to figure out the difference on the fly.

Screw the dinner date, offer the hike. New experiences are often much more appealing, even my daughter does the Applebee's dinner test. If she says no to the hike, is this a person you really want to put the effort towards?

Daytime hours for a first date are often best anyhow, it gives the feeling of an "out" if things are not going so well and more of a "safe" feeling to the meeting.

[Johnny Five]

Get a van, some ether, and a dirty rag from your garage. The rest will work out just fine.

[AnticorRifling]

Screw the dinner date, offer the hike. New experiences are often much more appealing, even my daughter does the Applebee's dinner test. If she says no to the hike, is this a person you really want to put the effort towards?

Daytime hours for a first date are often best anyhow, it gives the feeling of an "out" if things are not going so well and more of a "safe" feeling to the meeting.

Hey you don't know me, wanna go wander around the woods alone for a bit?

[Johnny Five]

Hey you don't know me, wanna go wander around the woods alone for a bit?

Don't mind the handcuffs and duct tape. Want some of my water?

[Laviticas]

Hey you don't know me, wanna go wander around the woods alone for a bit?

LOL. No one said, ask her if she wants to go see your moonshining operation. Local park?

[Tgo01]

Hey you don't know me, wanna go wander around the woods alone for a bit?

Yes! But only if you pick me up in your windowless van.

[Johnny Five]

Yes! But only if you pick me up in your windowless van.


Get a van, some ether, and a dirty rag from your garage. The rest will work out just fine.

I already beat you to it.

[Divinity]

You did mention she has a family. Being a single mama myself, it's hard to pin things down especially if I need a babysitter. That could be why she appears to be all over the place. I agree with the aggressive approach. Tell her you're going to x place and would love to take her. Make the call more than three days from the time you're going to be there so you:

1. Let her know you're thinking about her and she's not a last minute invite.
2. you're showing her you can handle a situation without dumping the responsibility on her because you're retired and can think of these things while she's not, and..
3. If she doesn't show up.. You're enjoying yourself doing whatever anyway while giving you more insight to what she finds more important than meeting up with you.

Personally, I like a guy that goes through the effort of setting up dates because it shows they give a damn. As I have a family to schedule and attend to, it's nice to have someone else do the work for me.

Good luck!

[Tgo01]

I already beat you to it.

You didn't say windowless van so it's different!

[Johnny Five]

You didn't say windowless van so it's different!

But I like it when people watch.

[Wrathbringer]

lol @ anyone on PC giving dating advice. Myself included. lol even harder at anyone coming to PC for dating advice.

[Ker_Thwap]

lol @ anyone on PC giving dating advice. Myself included. lol even harder at anyone coming to PC for dating advice.

It's not dating advice! It's trying to figure out why women are incapable/unwilling to set a time.

[cwolff]

lol @ anyone on PC giving dating advice. Myself included. lol even harder at anyone coming to PC for dating advice.

To be fair to KT, he's not asking for dating advice. He only wonders why he's having a difficult time hammering out a sit-down for the two parties to break bread and discuss the feasibility of a merger.

[Johnny Five]

To be fair to KT, he's not asking for dating advice. He only wonders why he's having a difficult time hammering out a sit-down for the two parties to break bread and discuss the feasibility of a merger.

Just cyber, it's cheaper.

[cwolff]

Just cyber, it's cheaper.

I think we're talking about cyber.

Is this all online dating or are you meeting these women in public and trying to get a second meeting arranged?

[Ker_Thwap]

I think we're talking about cyber.

Is this all online dating or are you meeting these women in public and trying to get a second meeting arranged?

Yep, online.

[Taernath]

Oh shit, this is online? It's a dude.

[Tisket]

Ahhh. Online. Mystery solved.

[Tisket]

So not just a first date. A first meeting. I thought it was someone you already knew through work or socially. If the person has never met you they don't have much vested yet so them approaching a first date in a wishy washy manner is more likely.

[Ker_Thwap]

So not just a first date. A first meeting. I thought it was someone you already knew through work or socially. If the person has never met you they don't have much vested yet so them approaching a first date in a wishy washy manner is more likely.

Yeah, I guess I could have been clearer. First meeting is very accurate. If you want to get very specific, my profile makes it clear that I'm looking for a hiking buddy, not a romantic interest, not a relationship, not marriage, and not sexytime.

I've had great success in actually meeting women who seem to be interested on this basis. About 15 or 16 in the last year. Then about ten who have actually gone on hikes/kayaking/movies/etc. a few times. Of those ten: four wanted to to cohabitate after a few weeks/months. Four wandered off for various reasons. Two of them still hike with me and remain friends.

I was just surprised that every single one of the 15 or 16 initial women were anti scheduling. Apparently the answer is "men should prove themselves and be aggressive," even in situations that aren't leading to romance/committed relationships."

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

[waywardgs]

I already beat you to it.

Congratulations?

[Johnny Five]

Congratulations?

Way to follow the conversation.

[waywardgs]

Way to follow the conversation.

Oh I did. You didn't get the joke.

[cwolff]

Yeah, I guess I could have been clearer. First meeting is very accurate. If you want to get very specific, my profile makes it clear that I'm looking for a hiking buddy, not a romantic interest, not a relationship, not marriage, and not sexytime.

I've had great success in actually meeting women who seem to be interested on this basis. About 15 or 16 in the last year. Then about ten who have actually gone on hikes/kayaking/movies/etc. a few times. Of those ten: four wanted to to cohabitate after a few weeks/months. Four wandered off for various reasons. Two of them still hike with me and remain friends.

I was just surprised that every single one of the 15 or 16 initial women were anti scheduling. Apparently the answer is "men should prove themselves and be aggressive," even in situations that aren't leading to romance/committed relationships."

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

Maybe you're sending mixed signals. They're probably wondering why you're trying to pin them down to a dinner date when you've already expressed that you just want a platonic hiking buddy.

[diethx]

Screw the dinner date, offer the hike. New experiences are often much more appealing, even my daughter does the Applebee's dinner test. If she says no to the hike, is this a person you really want to put the effort towards?

Daytime hours for a first date are often best anyhow, it gives the feeling of an "out" if things are not going so well and more of a "safe" feeling to the meeting.

Yeah because rapes never happen in the daytime. What horrid advice. Heh.

[Johnny Five]

Oh I did. You didn't get the joke.

I did, I just didn't want to admit that it's 95% of the time true.

[cwolff]

Yeah because rapes never happen in the daytime. What horrid advice. Heh.

I was thinking we'd go out in the woods for our first date. No? Oh you don't like the woods! Who are you, Chandra Levy!

[Ker_Thwap]

Maybe you're sending mixed signals. They're probably wondering why you're trying to pin them down to a dinner date when you've already expressed that you just want a platonic hiking buddy.

Well, it's wise (for both parties) to meet in a public place before going into the woods with them in the mountains of NH.

[cwolff]

Well, it's wise (for both parties) to meet in a public place before going into the woods with them in the mountains of NH.

That place is called a trail-head.

Finding a woman to date, who also happens to like hiking, is a different thing.

[Laviticas]

Yeah because rapes never happen in the daytime. What horrid advice. Heh.

Never been a problem for me. Never been turned down for a picnic in the park, NEVER.

[m444w]

That place is called a trail-head.

Finding a woman to date, who also happens to like hiking, is a different thing.

Trail-head is what happens during the hike, not before.

[RSR]

Offer to take them fishing. Especially if it's catfishing.

[diethx]

Never been a problem for me. Never been turned down for a picnic in the park, NEVER.

Maybe you're not masculine enough for a woman to feel that she could ever be threatened? I dunno. But anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

[cwolff]

Never been a problem for me. Never been turned down for a picnic in the park, NEVER.

Laviticas: Bitch, I've never been turned down for a picnic. NEVER! Now get in the van.

[AnticorRifling]

Never been a problem for me. Never been turned down for a picnic in the park, NEVER.

You're offering a picnic in the park, they're just assuming you're gay.

[Laviticas]

Maybe you're not masculine enough for a woman to feel that she could ever be threatened? I dunno. But anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

Or you're to fugly to get a man to ask you on a picnic? I dunno. Evidence is evidence.

[Laviticas]

You're offering a picnic in the park, they're just assuming you're gay.

Does it matter what they assume as long as they say yes?

[diethx]

Or you're to fugly to get a man to ask you on a picnic? I dunno. Evidence is evidence.

That made a lot of sense in the current discussion. Well done.

[cwolff]

Or you're to fugly to get a man to ask you on a picnic? I dunno. Evidence is evidence.

Your problem here is that in one post you suggest a hike with a stranger for a first date, then when someone questions the wisdom of that from a women's perspective, your retort is built around a picnic in the park. Not the same thing. At least in a park the woman can go to her car, walk away or yell to the guy walking his dog. A forested stretch of trail doesn't allow for this security.

[diethx]

Your problem here is that in one post you suggest a hike with a stranger for a first date, then when someone questions the wisdom of that from a women's perspective, your retort is built around a picnic in the park. Not the same thing. At least in a park the woman can go to her car, walk away or yell to the guy walking his dog. A forested stretch of trail doesn't allow for this security.

Wait, what? You mean these two images aren't depicting the same things?

http://remotefootprints.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/048-Hiking-to-ME-Remote-Spot2.jpg

http://sfsu.edu/~oip/f1services/oipnews/OIPNEWSClipArt/New%20Folder/Delores-park-san-francisco%5B1%5D.jpg

I am so confused.

[AnticorRifling]

Does it matter what they assume as long as they say yes?

Exactly how many state registries are you on?

[Tisket]

Why is the woman's pack so much larger in the first image. I'd be whacking the back of his head with my walking pole.

[AnticorRifling]

Why is the woman's pack so much larger in the first image. I'd be whacking the back of his head with my walking pole.

It's a baby carrier with a sun shade.

[diethx]

Why is the woman's pack so much larger in the first image. I'd be whacking the back of his head with my walking pole.

Clearly she needs extra space to carry all the cooking supplies. Get with it, Tisket.

[Tisket]

Load me down like that and I'd be afraid of falling. It'd be a flipped turtle scenario.

[Laviticas]

Actually my suggestion was to do something out of the norm, like his idea of a hike. A hike does not automatically mean heading off into the deep woods. Numerous parks with picnic areas that have trails to hike on. I was assuming the OP did not mean heading for the deep woods on a hike for a first date.

[cwolff]

Wait, what? You mean these two images aren't depicting the same things?

http://remotefootprints.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/048-Hiking-to-ME-Remote-Spot2.jpg

http://sfsu.edu/~oip/f1services/oipnews/OIPNEWSClipArt/New%20Folder/Delores-park-san-francisco%5B1%5D.jpg

I am so confused.

Exactly. Dating is so confusing. You can see it in the picture with the hikers. Look at their faces. He's clearly thinking about when to make his move. She's patiently waiting for him to get his courage up. Bet she's saying to herself "I am so in to you. Will you just rape me already!" First date jitters. It's kind of cute.

[Tisket]

It's a baby carrier with a sun shade.

On closer inspection of the picture, I believe you are right.

[Laviticas]

http://www.iowadnr.gov/portals/idnr/uploads/parks/parkbanners/730_bigcreek_kastner.jpg

confused

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I met my wife online, after a whole bunch of pretty bad dates. There is a local free service here in Kansas City, called SinglesNet, I think it's nationwide as well. Anyway, at first I was all "I love to read Shakespeare in the park on cool spring evenings whilst admiring the local fauna and flora" type generic I think I know what you want personal add.

Then after a few crazy dates, 1 stalker, and it's possible I may have stalked 1 woman... I said screw it and put in my profile what I'm really like. Stuff like I would rather stay in and watch a movie than go out, I'm kind of antisocial, I have a handful of very close friends who I'd do anything for, and almost no friends beyond them, I love dogs, playing video games etc...

Then I after a few crazy dates, some stalker/stalking and a woman who told me I was not in a fraternity in college because she called the University and they didn't have me on record (yeah that did not end well) while I was in another state visiting my parents... I was just about ready to altogether call it quits on that particular means of getting dates... when my wife wrote me and said she liked my profile, it wasn't like most of the ones she'd read. Then we chatted it up for a few days, and agreed to meet for breakfast. It was on from there, honestly like finding a part of myself I hadn't even known I was looking for.

The whole point of my story is, if just figuring out a day/time to meet is already frustrating you, what are the odds that it'll get better from there? Best dating advice I ever got was volume - get out there and date as many people as you can, to figure out what you can't stand - maybe you'll get lucky and find someone who only annoys you a little.

[Laviticas]

"I said screw it and put in my profile what I'm really like."

If things get serious, they are going to find this shit out anyhow and if you lied, look out son.

[Divinity]

No wonder you're having a hard time. You're confusing even me. You are posting about a DATE but it's just meeting some random so you can just go hiking? Why not just go hiking and meet some random in the act of already doing it? New info changes almost all of what I said.

[Ker_Thwap]

No wonder you're having a hard time. You're confusing even me. You are posting about a DATE but it's just meeting some random so you can just go hiking? Why not just go hiking and meet some random in the act of already doing it? New info changes almost all of what I said.

I'm not having a hard time. I meet people, we go on hikes, movies, meals, picnics, kayaking, play cards, grilling in the back yard, and other fun and healthy activities. I'm just weirded out that no woman I've dealt with in this format has ever once been capable of selecting a time for the initial meeting. Not one! How can you not be curious about why this has happened?

I'm perfectly willing to believe the common denominator is me. But I still don't get the reasoning.

[Atlanteax]

Be like "We could meet up at (restaurant) for a quick bite and then head over to (park) for hiking. Which would work better for you? Meet up at 6pm on Friday or 1pm on Saturday?" If neither works, prompt her for a suggested time.

This *does* seem more like a dating situation tho. If you are both familiar with the hiking grounds, just suggest two alternative times to meet up at the entrance area, when you (both) know it is busy/active?

Editted to suggest that the reason why establishing an initial time is challenging is due to a paradox. I'd wager that their mindset is they just want to have fun and go with the flow, but if they have to plan it, it takes the spontaneity/fun out of it (nevermind it becomes more date-like). Hence the thought process in suggesting (A) & (B) and prompting for (C) if neither works.

[Ker_Thwap]

Be like "We could meet up at (restaurant) for a quick bite and then head over to (park) for hiking. Which would work better for you? Meet up at 6pm on Friday or 1pm on Saturday?" If neither works, prompt her for a suggested time.

This *does* seem more like a dating situation tho. If you are both familiar with the hiking grounds, just suggest two alternative times to meet up at the entrance area, when you (both) know it is busy/active?

Editted to suggest that the reason why establishing an initial time is challenging is due to a paradox. I'd wager that their mindset is they just want to have fun and go with the flow, but if they have to plan it, it takes the spontaneity/fun out of it (nevermind it becomes more date-like). Hence the thought process in suggesting (A) & (B) and prompting for (C) if neither works.

This all makes perfect sense to me. But, in practice they want to meet somewhere first to determine if there will even be a hike. This apparently gives them time to have all their friends sufficient time to creep on my profile.

[AnticorRifling]

You want me to talk to them?

[Atlanteax]

This all makes perfect sense to me. But, in practice they want to meet somewhere first to determine if there will even be a hike. This apparently gives them time to have all their friends sufficient time to creep on my profile.

Well, that's why the bite to eat at restaurant prior .., if you hit it off in person, you just head over to the park. If one is uncomfortable, it's when to back-out, "oh, I forgot I had xxxxx thing to do, I'm sorry"

[Latrinsorm]

It's not dating advice! It's trying to figure out why women are incapable/unwilling to set a time.Women don't understand the concept of time. Have you ever known a woman to be on time for anything? QED.
You want me to talk to them?Leave the turban on.

[Ker_Thwap]

Women don't understand the concept of time. Have you ever known a woman to be on time for anything? QED.

I've known two people in life who were consistently late. One male, one female. I think that's a large enough sample size.

[Divinity]

Women don't understand the concept of time. Have you ever known a woman to be on time for anything?

Lol! I think it depends on where you live. When I was living in the NW, on time. Now that I live near a beach, they rarely show on time if at all. The latter is aggravating.

[Divinity]

I'm not having a hard time. I meet people, we go on hikes, movies, meals, picnics, kayaking, play cards, grilling in the back yard, and other fun and healthy activities. I'm just weirded out that no woman I've dealt with in this format has ever once been capable of selecting a time for the initial meeting. Not one! How can you not be curious about why this has happened?

I'm perfectly willing to believe the common denominator is me. But I still don't get the reasoning.

I consider it a "hard time" when you're saying about 16 women are all having the same issue in planning something with you. I would agree that you're the common denominator.

Consider how you approach them with settling on a meet. Online aggressive isn't endearing and doesn't work the same as doing it on the phone. Text may be your worst wing man. Call her and if she excuses you 3 times then let her go with a polite invitation to call you when she is available.

Speculative: Might want any to look for a different type if girl as well if you're picking them out. Seems like you are picking the same personalities in the online profiles and getting the same result.

[Archigeek]

Start with something less than going out for a hike in the woods, or if hiking is the one and only thing you want to do, join a hiking group. A lot of women just aren't going to go walking in the woods with you on the first date. Most women in fact. That reticence to setting up the date? That's their spidey senses telling them you're a creep for wanting to get them in an isolated location on the first date. Tell them hiking is one of the things you love to do, but suggest starting with a cup of coffee as a first date. No pressure, no high expectations. And for the love of God, no "let's get coffee and if you like me we can jump in my van and go for a hike". Take it slow man. Easy dates with no pressure to start out.

[cwolff]

Here's the deal. I'll break it down for you. You're retired. You like the ladies. Don't like the BS games.

GO TO SOUTH AMERICA

Hang out down there maybe 1/2 the year, come up here 1/2 the year. Gorgeous latinas everywhere and they're down to hang out short term, long term, whatever, because you'll treat 'em like a lady and they'll appreciate you for it.

[Warriorbird]

You're always going to have flighty people of both genders online. I found that I had a much higher success rate meeting the women I wanted at events that the women I wanted went to. I met my current girlfriend at a casual board game night (we played Risk like nerds, yes) and I only later discovered the wacky coincidence that we both played Simu games. Rather than going for the meet up/then hike route, maybe just try to tailor some sort of meeting up situation to each of these women and then try to suggest a time before working it out with their schedule.

[Gompers]

Here's the deal. I'll break it down for you. You're retired. You like the ladies. Don't like the BS games.

GO TO SOUTH AMERICA

Hang out down there maybe 1/2 the year, come up here 1/2 the year. Gorgeous latinas everywhere and they're down to hang out short term, long term, whatever, because you'll treat 'em like a lady and they'll appreciate you for it.

This sounds like amazing advice - I cant wait to become retired.

[Tgo01]

This sounds like amazing advice - I cant wait to become retired.

Wouldn't your wife disprove of that plan?

[Ker_Thwap]

Start with something less than going out for a hike in the woods, or if hiking is the one and only thing you want to do, join a hiking group. A lot of women just aren't going to go walking in the woods with you on the first date. Most women in fact. That reticence to setting up the date? That's their spidey senses telling them you're a creep for wanting to get them in an isolated location on the first date. Tell them hiking is one of the things you love to do, but suggest starting with a cup of coffee as a first date. No pressure, no high expectations. And for the love of God, no "let's get coffee and if you like me we can jump in my van and go for a hike". Take it slow man. Easy dates with no pressure to start out.

I suspect you didn't read any of this thread. It's all through online chat. Sometimes they contact me initially, sometimes I contact them initially. I'm old, I live in a rural area, there are only so many potential matches. I'm the opposite of aggressive online. Generally we chat through messaging for a bit, and get a general feel for each other, have some laughs, share some stories. Then one of us suggests meeting, it can be her, it can be me. I never suggest a hike first, I suggest lunch, dinner or coffee first. There's no expectation about even a second meeting. There is zero pressure. This is for my protection as much as theirs. I also have no desire to get set up and robbed by some lunatic and her boyfriend in a remote spot.

My only point is that even if the woman contacts me initially, and she suggests that we meet, we agree on a town to meet, agree on the restaurant to meet...each and every one of them then makes me me play a guessing game on when they might be available. I've then met these people, had lovely times and decided where to go from there. It's fun to meet people and share stories. So again, it's not that they don't want to meet me, it's that they make me go through an extra twenty steps to pick a time.

I belong to several hiking clubs. It's generally a bunch of couples and younger people. I also can't handle the higher peaks at any kind of pace, so that limits my participation as well.

[Tgo01]

I also have no desire to get set up and robbed by some lunatic and her boyfriend in a remote spot.

Well sheesh if you're going to be so picky.

[Ker_Thwap]

I consider it a "hard time" when you're saying about 16 women are all having the same issue in planning something with you. I would agree that you're the common denominator.

Consider how you approach them with settling on a meet. Online aggressive isn't endearing and doesn't work the same as doing it on the phone. Text may be your worst wing man. Call her and if she excuses you 3 times then let her go with a polite invitation to call you when she is available.

Speculative: Might want any to look for a different type if girl as well if you're picking them out. Seems like you are picking the same personalities in the online profiles and getting the same result.

Yeah, people my age don't just give out their phone numbers. I feel like with some of them, I'm playing a guessing game with a five year old. Pick a number between 1 and 20... Yeah, maybe it would be easier for everyone if you just told me the number. Nope, you have to guess!

[Archigeek]

I suspect you didn't read any of this thread. It's all through online chat. Sometimes they contact me initially, sometimes I contact them initially. I'm old, I live in a rural area, there are only so many potential matches. I'm the opposite of aggressive online. Generally we chat through messaging for a bit, and get a general feel for each other, have some laughs, share some stories. Then one of us suggests meeting, it can be her, it can be me. I never suggest a hike first, I suggest lunch, dinner or coffee first. There's no expectation about even a second meeting. There is zero pressure. This is for my protection as much as theirs. I also have no desire to get set up and robbed by some lunatic and her boyfriend in a remote spot.

My only point is that even if the woman contacts me initially, and she suggests that we meet, we agree on a town to meet, agree on the restaurant to meet...each and every one of them then makes me me play a guessing game on when they might be available. I've then met these people, had lovely times and decided where to go from there. It's fun to meet people and share stories. So again, it's not that they don't want to meet me, it's that they make me go through an extra twenty steps to pick a time.

I belong to several hiking clubs. It's generally a bunch of couples and younger people. I also can't handle the higher peaks at any kind of pace, so that limits my participation as well.

I read the whole thread, and reached my opinion based on what you're saying. Do with it what you will. You need to consider the possibility that there's something about you/your delivery that's creeping them out. Figure it out and work on it. I get the rural thing though, having grown up in a rural area.

You do have one thing going for you, the older you get, assuming you survive, you become a rare and desired commodity: an old man. By the time you're 85 you'll be out numbered by the ladies at a 6:1 ratio.

[Laviticas]

Wait, what? You mean these two images aren't depicting the same things?

http://remotefootprints.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/048-Hiking-to-ME-Remote-Spot2.jpg

http://sfsu.edu/~oip/f1services/oipnews/OIPNEWSClipArt/New%20Folder/Delores-park-san-francisco%5B1%5D.jpg

I am so confused.

P.S. That ain't fucking hiking, that's spoiled white folk "roughing it". No serious, ski poles? GTFO

[Taernath]

Yeah, fuck whitey.

[Some Rogue]

Load me down like that and I'd be afraid of falling. It'd be a flipped turtle scenario.

Then you're in the right position. :devilsmile:

[Tisket]

lol

(SR knows I lol at all his posts but I posted this anyway because that serial grey repper dude hated that I used "lol" in a previous post in this thread. And I'm all about pleasing moronic slugs...lololol)