A polearm sorcerer at cap

[Goat]

I capped today. Yay!

At 83, I fixskilled into polearms and I've been built that way since. Occasionally people seem curious. Here's some detail. See also my original post at level 83 for training rationales and such. http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?86811-Polearmed-sorcery-for-fun-and-profit-(level-83)&highlight=
I plan to write something in more of a guide format eventually but who knows if it will ever happen. Let me know if you're actually interested in such a thing. tl;dr: Swinging is totally doable outside of the rift, but you had better enjoy maintaining a big scroll collection.

Dergoatean (at level 100), your current skill bonuses and ranks

(including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Combat Maneuvers...................| 171 71
Polearm Weapons....................| 201 101
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 5 1
Physical Fitness...................| 201 101
Arcane Symbols.....................| 247 147
Magic Item Use.....................| 201 101
Spell Aiming.......................| 302 202
Harness Power......................| 200 100
Elemental Mana Control.............| 155 55
Spirit Mana Control................| 140 40
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 58 12
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 166 66
Climbing...........................| 134 37
Swimming...........................| 105 25
Trading............................| 40 8

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 67

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 20

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 114

My first post postcap goal is 101 ranks CM, then maybe spells up to 475 and 140. I will consider dropping necro further but I don't otherwise plan on doing much with a fixskill.

Strength (STR): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Constitution (CON): 100 (20) ... 100 (20)
Dexterity (DEX): 100 (35) ... 100 (35)
Agility (AGI): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Discipline (DIS): 100 (15) ... 100 (15)
Aura (AUR): 100 (35) ... 100 (35)
Logic (LOG): 100 (25) ... 140 (45)
Intuition (INT): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Wisdom (WIS): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Influence (INF): 79 (9) ... 79 (9)

The fixstat hurt bad. I pulled the trigger at level 92, I think. It cost me 512 PTP, which came from my CM ranks, except for giving up 12 ranks of necro lore. I think I only made back about 15 PTP by cap. The biggest benefit is an extra ~28lbs of carrying capacity from more STR/CON, and few points of critical padding from CON. It's nice that my DIS isn't tanked any more, so I expect illusion speed rounds to be a little easier. I can also manage a -5 RT agidex if I sub in some enhancives.

Epeen numbers
478 physical AS with enhancives, scrolls, symbol of courage, an EG heart (dauntless), and a 7x perfect lance.
508 CS with enhancives. I can get to 519 with mystic focus.
522 bolt AS, if I add 513 to the scroll spellup list (which hurts physical AS).
13 more of everything against the undead with symbol of supremacy.

Hunting strategies
OTF 719 on seers, adepts, heralds, (and initiates, if I bother). If that doesn't kill them but does amputate stuff, I can probably finish them off with a swing. I wait until griffins swing and then attack. They generally go down in 3 shots if I don't get a crit before that. If I bother with janissaries or scouts, I can swing after they swing, or 708 and swing. It's fun to be able to kill greater constructs, but they have a ton of health, so they are kind of annoying.
Third floor of Nelemar Super easy, and faster necrojuice harvesting than OTF. Leg the radicals, combatants and exeuctioners with 708 and then swing away (but wait for the executioners to swing first). 719 sirens. I can kill the defenders swinging, but it's faster to throw two offensive channels of 705 at them.
Second floor of Nelemar I haven't spent much time here yet. Sentries and GWEs scare me. I plan to go back and make a real effort there soon.
Plane four of the rift My self-spelled AS isn't good, but the bigger problem is my self-spelled DS in offensive. I can hunt just fine with my 7x fusion runestaff, though (+8 WIS, +8 AUR). 711 all the things.
North side of the scatter I haven't spent much time here either. I curse fetish masters to soften them up. Siphons seem pretty doable, especially with symbol of supremacy up. I haven't tried swinging at a destroyer yet.
Invasions I generally spec for bolting and 713 everything. It's an attack every 3 seconds instead of 5, I'm only in offensive stance for an instant instead of 5 seconds, and I can do damage to a bunch of creatures at once. I have swung some, but it's generally not as useful. I do have an 8x poleaxe flaring pike, so in theory I could swing at demons, but when I've seen them, I've focused on 117ing others, dispelling, and 713ing once that can hit them with magic.
Temp hunting grounds Runestaff was significantly more effective in shadowguard (the 90-100 area, I couldn't do much in the 105+ area at level ~93-96). The mines in Talador were sort of doable with the pike, but more effective with a runestaff. I can hit wreck the 90-100 talador area with a pike, but the knight/warmage area is tough. I can smack knights with a pike, but without 102, I'm vulnerable to a decent roll while in hard RT in offensive - their claids hit hard. If I want to hunt there, I have to spend a ton of mana bolting.

If anyone if curious, feel free to ask questions.

[Buckwheet]

Congrats on capping and nice write up.

[Allereli]

Grats, Goat!

You mixed up 2nd and 3rd floors

Don't weapons have to be 8x and holy/blessed to hit demons?

[Moonwitch]

Nice Goat! Congrats!

[Malisai]

congrats man!

Are you using haste imbeds or swinging on normal RT?

[kutter]

I just started a burghai gnome sorc, he is swinging two handed, I have decided I really like semi's and while a sorc is not really a semi, it sure can seem to act like one, just heavier on the magic side which is ok, as I have a paladin and bard for the heavy swingers. It is nice to know that you can be successful all the way to cap as a sort of semi-semi.

[Silvean]

Congratulations.

6406

[Goat]

You mixed up 2nd and 3rd floors
Oops! Thanks, fixed.


Don't weapons have to be 8x and holy/blessed to hit demons?
I think so? My 8x pike has poleaxe flares, which are a combat script rather than "real" flares, so I can still bless it.

[Goat]

Are you using haste imbeds or swinging on normal RT?
I keep an unlocked haste scroll in my backpack. I use it situationally, maybe averaging out to once per hunt. I use it most often when things are getting slightly swarmy but not yet scary enough to bail. I also use them some when I take on greater constructs, just to cut down on how long I spend killing them.

I hope to eventually get 48 ranks of air lore for 2 second swings, but I have plenty of goals before I do that.

[Goat]

It is nice to know that you can be successful all the way to cap as a sort of semi-semi.
I can't say from experience that it's viable all the way to cap, just that it's viable from 83 to 100. I know Xoryl enjoyed a lance-swinging sorc up to about level 40 (elf, I think). Then he started dying all the time and started a different character. I think he might not have used scrolls as much as I do, but I'm not sure.

I think the best way to train and strategize about swinging is to see it as a tool in the toolkit, rather than the one way to hunt. With 2x spells and 1xHP you'll still be able to hunt okay with a runestaff, though you'll want to be pretty enhancive-heavy eventually.

Let me know how it goes with your burghal. At first glance it looks like the STR penalty and lesser WIS/AUR penalties are going to be tough, but you have a very helpful AGIDEX, and dat logic bonus.

[Allereli]

I think so? My 8x pike has poleaxe flares, which are a combat script rather than "real" flares, so I can still bless it.

cool, I wish the scripted flares weren't referred to as flares at all.

http://i7.glitter-graphics.org/pub/242/242047gago42qyil.jpg

[Silvean]

Further reflections on goats and patience:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDkR-DItOL0

[Moonwitch]

That is a Great Pyrenees. They are wonderful guard dogs for livestock.

[Tisket]

It's not the calmness of the dog that surprises me, it's that the goats don't exhibit any sense of self-preservation.

[Goat]

Thank you for the congratulations and goat pics, everyone :-)

[Thondalar]

Congrats Goat...one of the most frequent questions from new or returning players is some iteration of "how should I train my character?". My response is always "do whatever you want, whatever you like, whatever you think would be cool. Almost anything is viable with GS mechanics if you do it right and take advantage of all available resources".

You certainly validate that philosophy. Kudos mate.

[Velfi]

Grats Goat, stick with the weapons!

[caelric]

I hope to eventually get 48 ranks of air lore for 2 second swings, but I have plenty of goals before I do that.

As a THW swinging sorc at cap (in Plat, but many of the pointers remain the same), I can offer a few tips.

Voln is an interesting choice for a weapon swinging sorc; GoS actually works better, unless you are a primary undead hunter. The HCP symbol is very helpful.

First, get your minor elemental to 75. It pays off in both bolt AS, CS, and swinging AS, as well as some DS. I rank of spells is only slightly more than 2 ranks of CM, and with the spells (minor elemental, at least), you get multiple dividends, as opposed to CM, in which you just get weapon AS (and more cman points, of course).

Next, before you work your CM up to 1x, I would work perception to 1x, it will help you against most manuevers just as much as CM will, and is much, much less TP expensive.

For OTF, with the griffins, 20 ranks of spirit summoning will let you web bolt, and successfully webbing the griffins will knock them out of the sky, and allow you to swing without worrying about waiting for them to attack first. Web bolt seems to be a divisive topic amongst sorcs, though, so I will leave it at that.

I assume you have the one rank of MOC for more splashes with 713 (and 111, as well); perhaps a better way to do so is get a premium enhancive with 7 ranks of MOC (and 3 ranks of whatever else you want; 7/3 split is b/c of the rules WRT premium enahancives) and put the TPs to some other use.

I dropped all my demon lore, as I don't keep a demon around (not enough will power to work my way all the way through illusions to do so), so I have found demon lore to be unimpressive. I also have very little Necro lore (3 ranks, I think), so my necro farming is relatively poor.

As I have said before, armor makes a difference, depending on how much hindrance you want to deal with; for you, given that you do a lot of casting, I'm going to guess that you would rather have no hindrance; for me, since almost everything I do is weapon swinging, brig is my armor of choice. With brig, especially the brig I have, I can take some pretty hard hits and keep on going. Of course, brig is on feasible at cap, with 9 ranks of armor enhancives (need 110 total ranks for minimum hindrance); prior to that, LBP or studded leather makes for decent armor.

As for haste imbeds, at most festivals (including Talador), you can buy haste edibles with 20 doses of haste, effectively giving you (almost) unlimited haste for the cost of the silvers. Haste edibles beat haste imbeds for 2 reasons: 1- most haste imbeds are ranger anklets/wristlets.rods/staves, and usually hold less than 20 charges. 2- haste edibles do not have a casting RT associated with them, and in fact can be used when you are in cast RT.

Finally, the 48 ranks of air lore is well worth it; 2 second swings is a big difference from 3 second swings. Of course, at ~12 mill xp, I fixskilled to 200 ranks of air lore, and now have 1 second swings, but I mostly hunt via swinging, rather than casting, so it matters more for me. Also arguably, there are better uses for those TPs than 200 ranks of air lore, but I like 1 second swings enough that it works for me.

Final comment: you are correct, a weapon swinging sorc is certainly doable, but more difficult than the regular sorc route. Your comment on scrolls is spot on. I never hunt in the Rift due to spell stripping because of the reliance on outside spells, whether from spell ups from others, or scrolls.

Congrats on capping!

[Goat]

Voln is an interesting choice for a weapon swinging sorc; GoS actually works better, unless you are a primary undead hunter. The HCP symbol is very helpful.
I've been thinking about GoS. Voln is somewhat RP-relevant for Goat - he never totally fits in anywhere and has an outsider's view (doesn't know if he's Faendryl or Dhe'nar, isn't a "full sorcerer", is in Voln but animates dead). He may end up in GoS eventually. I have HCP armor already, though I certainly wouldn't mind more padding.



First, get your minor elemental to 75. It pays off in both bolt AS, CS, and swinging AS, as well as some DS. I rank of spells is only slightly more than 2 ranks of CM, and with the spells (minor elemental, at least), you get multiple dividends, as opposed to CM, in which you just get weapon AS (and more cman points, of course).
The CM isn't entirely a mechanical decision. I like the idea of sending him all the more towards "well-rounded." I do admit that there are great reasons to get to 475 before anything else.



Next, before you work your CM up to 1x, I would work perception to 1x, it will help you against most manuevers just as much as CM will, and is much, much less TP expensive.
Point of order, according to that old GM post, it's not "equal" but "less than or equal to." Still, perception is definitely a goal.



For OTF, with the griffins, 20 ranks of spirit summoning will let you web bolt, and successfully webbing the griffins will knock them out of the sky, and allow you to swing without worrying about waiting for them to attack first. Web bolt seems to be a divisive topic amongst sorcs, though, so I will leave it at that.
Also on the list. I sometimes 118 them with the warding version. My MnS CS is real bad, but I still have a 57% chance to web them or something, and when I have spare mana and a few seconds to wait, I may as well.



I assume you have the one rank of MOC for more splashes with 713 (and 111, as well); perhaps a better way to do so is get a premium enhancive with 7 ranks of MOC (and 3 ranks of whatever else you want; 7/3 split is b/c of the rules WRT premium enahancives) and put the TPs to some other use.
I have 2400 PP somehow, and I'm definitely getting an enhancive. The trick is what to get. Pole, Spell aim, CM, STR, AUR, MOC. (WIS already +39). Ranks could be really really brutal to recharge.



I dropped all my demon lore, as I don't keep a demon around (not enough will power to work my way all the way through illusions to do so), so I have found demon lore to be unimpressive. I also have very little Necro lore (3 ranks, I think), so my necro farming is relatively poor.

I do very little with demons, but I phase 3 15 pound bags before every hunt. That seems worth the 12 ranks to me.

I did quite a lot of animation from 60 to 85, less so lately. I do still like 711, it's my go-to on plane 4 (I realize you stay out of the rift altogether). The necrojuice harvesting is nice too. I think I mentioned in OP that it's the one skill I might drop. I'd still keep 21 ranks or so no matter what, for the cheap harvesting boost. Probably 45, so that 711 stays fairly useful. I also have enough necro enhancives that I could still animate combatants or what have you (with 45 base ranks).





As I have said before, armor makes a difference, depending on how much hindrance you want to deal with; for you, given that you do a lot of casting, I'm going to guess that you would rather have no hindrance; for me, since almost everything I do is weapon swinging, brig is my armor of choice. With brig, especially the brig I have, I can take some pretty hard hits and keep on going. Of course, brig is on feasible at cap, with 9 ranks of armor enhancives (need 110 total ranks for minimum hindrance); prior to that, LBP or studded leather makes for decent armor.
I just can't see moving to LBP and giving up my greaves/aventails/helm enhancives. Brig someday, though.



As for haste imbeds, at most festivals (including Talador), you can buy haste edibles with 20 doses of haste, effectively giving you (almost) unlimited haste for the cost of the silvers. Haste edibles beat haste imbeds for 2 reasons: 1- most haste imbeds are ranger anklets/wristlets.rods/staves, and usually hold less than 20 charges. 2- haste edibles do not have a casting RT associated with them, and in fact can be used when you are in cast RT.
It has been mostly a personal preference not to be a haste demon, but I do keep picking up whatever haste scrolls I can. I didn't realize that edibles have no cast round time, though - thanks for educating me. I'm sure that's very useful.



Finally, the 48 ranks of air lore is well worth it; 2 second swings is a big difference from 3 second swings. Of course, at ~12 mill xp, I fixskilled to 200 ranks of air lore, and now have 1 second swings, but I mostly hunt via swinging, rather than casting, so it matters more for me. Also arguably, there are better uses for those TPs than 200 ranks of air lore, but I like 1 second swings enough that it works for me.

Must be fun :-)



Congrats on capping!
Thanks!

[Malisai]

I think its great we have two capped swinging sorcerers. Not only that but its obvious that they hunt very differently. go us!

For demon lore I like it mainly for two reasons. the first is to phase and the second is to give coins to a demon so i dont have to carry it around when i hunt, and since im in the rift, it means i dont have to drop it or make runs back to town as often.

[caelric]

Half-krol with max strength and max strength enhancives, along with running 509 through scrolls the majority of the time, and a gem eater 606 item, so encumbrance is almost never a problem for me, but I understand why it would be for other races.

As far as weapons, I used a 6.5x HCW bastard axe until cap and then not long after cap, I acquired and through CCF and RtCF, made the weapon I currently use, a 8x, perfect forged, blink, MCW, T5 ensorcell greatsword.