Kerry unveils ground breaking Iraq Plan!!

[Parkbandit]

Kerry's Earth Shattering Plan for Iraq:

* Get more help in Iraq from other nations
* Provide better training for Iraqi Security Forces
* Privide benefits to the Iraqi People
* Ensure that democratic elections can be held next year as promised.


THIS is why we need a guy like Kerry in the White House folks.. because he is a VISIONARY! Sure, Bush is already doing each and every one of these points on the plan, and yea, he's said the same things, but Kerry really put it together in outline form! He also improved on Bush's plan by BULLET POINTING each so that they would stand out from the regular text!

I'm beginning to be a BIG believer in him!!

[Celexei]

As long as he's not Bush i'm voting for him.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Celexei
As long as he's not Bush i'm voting for him.

That is the only reason I can see so far. I would use that if I were Kerry.

"Hi, I'm John Kerry and I'm running for President. My platform is a simple one.. I'm not George Bush."

I have to think it would be more successful than the current one he is using.

[Celexei]

EXACTLY, John Stewart stated it best...."pretty much the only thing John Kerry has goin for him is...well...he's NOT BUSH!"

[DeV]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

THIS is why we need a guy like Kerry in the White House folks.. because he is a VISIONARY! You heard it here first!

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

How sad that the best argument for voting for the most powerful leader of the free world is "He's not Bush".

I'm curious if you approach the rest of your life that way too.

I'll take anything but the woman on the left as my wife. I'll take anything but herpes for VD. I'll take any grade in school but an F.

Besides the "I hate Bush because it's cool" program you are on, help me out with some specifics on why anyone who is not Bush (your words) is qualified? I'm thinking of running for pres, will you vote for me? Wait, I'm not Bush, so of course you will.

[Parkbandit]

It's all they have SHM.. leave them alone and stop bullying them!

In 2008.. they have Hillary though!!

[Celexei]

you know why anyone who is not bush is more qualified? simply put Bush = Bush you honestly want a dipfuck from Texas (no offense non-dipfucks that call texas their home or place of birth or place that they stopped off to get a Double-Quarter pounder or watch a rival cowboys team get their ass handed to them) running the free nation? I'd be scared of having him hand me my 99cent curly fries.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Kerry's Earth Shattering Plan for Iraq:

* Get more help in Iraq from other nations
* Provide better training for Iraqi Security Forces
* Privide benefits to the Iraqi People
* Ensure that democratic elections can be held next year as promised.


THIS is why we need a guy like Kerry in the White House folks.. because he is a VISIONARY! Sure, Bush is already doing each and every one of these points on the plan, and yea, he's said the same things, but Kerry really put it together in outline form! He also improved on Bush's plan by BULLET POINTING each so that they would stand out from the regular text!

I'm beginning to be a BIG believer in him!!


This tells me that you are still refusing to do even basic research to back up your claims.

Here's your challenge:

Show us how Bush is managing the war in Iraq. You are quick to post half-truths and sound bites about Kerry - Now is your chance to convince us that Bush is the one.

Please, no opinion - we want some hard core information.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

THIS is why we need a guy like Kerry in the White House folks.. because he is a VISIONARY!

I'm only happy to oblige the readership with the actual information on Kerry's plans for Iraq.

Winning The Peace in Iraq (http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/plan_to_win_the_peace_in_iraq.pdf)

Bush's Catastrophic Failures In Iraq (http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/bush_catastrophic_failures.pdf)

Congressional Republicans Admit What Bush Hides (http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/bush_hides.pdf)

Kerry Leads, Bush Follows on Iraq (http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/kerry_leads_bush_follows.pdf)


:nono: PB - no reaction until you provide us with what BUSH is doing to win the peace in Iraq.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by Celexei
you know why anyone who is not bush is more qualified? simply put Bush = Bush you honestly want a dipfuck from Texas (no offense non-dipfucks that call texas their home or place of birth or place that they stopped off to get a Double-Quarter pounder or watch a rival cowboys team get their ass handed to them) running the free nation? I'd be scared of having him hand me my 99cent curly fries.

That was moving. I'm voting for Kerry now based on your informative and educational opinion. Also, I think we should see about getting Texas moved out of the United States. Clearly the dipfucks (did I say that right?) there don't deserve to breath our air. I'm glad to see that people like you actually can vote, it encourages me for the future of the United (sans Texas) States.

[Celexei]

i gave a clause for the NON-dipfucks of Texas. get yer shit straight damnt'!!!

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady

Originally posted by Parkbandit

THIS is why we need a guy like Kerry in the White House folks.. because he is a VISIONARY!

I'm only happy to oblige the readership with the actual information on Kerry's plans for Iraq.

Winning The Peace in Iraq (http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/plan_to_win_the_peace_in_iraq.pdf)

Bush's Catastrophic Failures In Iraq (http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/bush_catastrophic_failures.pdf)

Congressional Republicans Admit What Bush Hides (http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/bush_hides.pdf)

Kerry Leads, Bush Follows on Iraq (http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/kerry_leads_bush_follows.pdf)


:nono: PB - no reaction until you provide us with what BUSH is doing to win the peace in Iraq.

Dear Anne-

Please post something NOT from the John Kerry website as that clearly isn't a non-bias source. Of course he will spin it to attempt to make himself look good.

Here is what Bush IS doing (not saying like Kerry) to win the peace in Iraq:

* Getting more help in Iraq from other nations.
*Training the Iraqi Security forces
*Providing benefits to the Iraqi People.
*Ensuring the democratic elections can be held next year as promised.

Oh shit.. that sounded almost erily similar to Kerry's ground breaking plan! Oh that's right, IT WAS HIS PLAN!

That was my point of the initial post.. that Kerry simply is taking what Bush is already doing, changing nothing and presenting it as "his" plan. There is nothing new about this plan.

Has everything gone perfectly in Iraq since we liberated them? Hell no. I don't agree with some things the President has done there... but show me a war that everything works according to plan.

There isn't one.

[Carl Spackler]

PB - 1 TRL - 0 for this one.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Please post something NOT from the John Kerry website as that clearly isn't a non-bias source. Of course he will spin it to attempt to make himself look good.



Mike,

Did you even LOOK at that stuff? Why would I not go directly to the source to find out what HE plans to do for our country. I have to find an unbiased source to tell me what Kerry himself can tell me on his website?

So I guess that all of the sources that were listed throughout all of those documents are ALL biased against Bush right?

Newsweek, USA Today, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, McCain giving a speech, Rumsfeld new conference, US News & World Report....The Senate Foreign Relations Committee - Knight Ridder, Associated Press...

Republican Senators Lugar and Hagal on "Face the Nation", 9/18/04

Republican Senator Lindsay Graham, MSNBC's Hardball, 9/16/04

Republican Senator John McCain, *NBC* Night News, 9/14/04

Republican Representative Doug Berueter, CNN.com 8/18/04

And those are just a small sampling of the sources within those documents.

Please, I asked for no opinion. You couldn't even deliver it yet again. This bias argument is old.

Again I ask for an accounting of how Bush is managing Iraq. Please, here's your chance to demonstrate why you support the guy.

[Parkbandit]

What part of my post did not get through that brainwashed head of yours? Seriously.

Was it the first part where George is trying to get more help from other nations? Please see UN speech today.

Was it the second where he is training the Iraqi security? Please turn on a TV or open a newspaper. Hell, use your googling skills and look for Iraqi Security Training.

Was it the better benefits to the Iraqi people? Please see the electrical grid before/after the war. Please see the work we have done in that country since the end of the main military operations.

Was it the ensuring the democratic elections were to take place in January? Please see a speech by the Iraqi leader yesterday or the day before.

Unfortunately, I am at work and have other pressing matters to attend to... or I would use my vast googling skills like you have to 'prove' my point.

Oh wait.. I already did.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Oh wait.. I already did.

Yes, you did..you have won.

Congratulations again.

[longshot]

I would think that the vast majority of people voting for Kerry are probably rather unenthusiastic about their candidate.

SHM, you make a point, but it's not "anything but", but instead, one mediocre guy.

There are enough people that think the flat, mediocre, boring, uncreative horsefaced weiner that can't catch a football is a better alternative to the current president.

I understand you support Bush, but I don't think it's too hard to understand the "As long as it's not Bush" vote.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I think the "anyone but Bush" vote is pathetic. I understand it, but doesn't change my feeling that it is pathetic.

Reasons, even if asine, are better than blindly saying I hate person x so much that I will vote for anyone but person x, regardless if person x is actually better than anyone else. It shows a lack of maturity. I'm taking my toys and going home, comes from the same type of person.

What if anyone, is actually worse, than x? I tend to stay as much as I can away from political threads, because of people like that. I'm not a political intelectual, I don't spend days researching things to support/debunk a claim. I have my opinion, and I know why I have it.

Do you think she could communicate that? At all?

[Ravenstorm]

Here's a nice little analogy for those of you who are still incapable of wrapping your minds around the reasoning behind the 'anyone but Bush' philosophy.

Who here (other than PB and HN) remembers the Ford Pinto?

For those kids here who don't, I'll explain. The Ford Pinto was a decent little car that unfortunately had one little problem. When rear ended it could blow up. Literally.

Right now, America badly needs a car but the one it has currently is a Pinto. So the situation is that we need a new car and we need a new car quick. We don't have the time nor the money to be overly picky so the most important quality the new car should have is that it won't blow up and kill you. After that? We can worry about the gas mileage and repair costs.

Dubya: the Ford Pinto of Presidents.

Raven

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Wow, moving stuff Raven. How about replace everything there that says Bush, with Clinton, or Kerry, or the president of an electric company in California.

YOU think America needs a new car. Why? Does the peddle stick, do the windows not roll down? It blows up?

Ok, see, you can give a reason. It blows up. That's what we like to call, "a reason", it is also, my point.

Formulate an opinion based on fact or not. But don't come out with the whole "anything but"...

[Nakiro]

Kerry's Plan For Success In Iraq:

Step 1 - Find Underwear Gnomes
Step 3 - World Peace

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
Formulate an opinion based on fact or not. But don't come out with the whole "anything but"...

If you go back and read every thread about Bush, you'd find plenty of reasons. it's only been discussed for the last year or three.

Raven

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Nakiro
Step 1 - Find Underwear Gnomes


Check out PB's yard.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
Formulate an opinion based on fact or not. But don't come out with the whole "anything but"...

If you go back and read every thread about Bush, you'd find plenty of reasons. it's only been discussed for the last year or three.

Raven

Nevermind. Just like nothing you post in your partisan way will ever sway me, nor will me asking you to justify your posts produce such justification. I'm glad everyone here is fired up for election day, I hope there is a good turn out.

PS - Your analogy sucks. It can apply to anything in the world.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
PS - Your analogy sucks. It can apply to anything in the world.

Why yes, it can. I don't want a Pinto in any facet of my life and I get rid of them when it turns out I have one. But suit yourself. Just don't claim no one has a reason to dislike Bush when you refuse to see them because of your partisanship.

Raven

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
Just don't claim no one has a reason to dislike Bush when you refuse to see them because of your partisanship.I thought he was saying that nobody has a reason to dislike Bush to such an extent that anyone (Kerry, Nader, Bobmuhthol) would make a better President than he.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
Who here (other than PB and HN) remembers the Ford Pinto?


:(

I hate Ravenstorm... but knowing Psykos plays for his team makes me happy.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
Dubya: the Ford Pinto of Presidents.

Raven

George Bush is to a Ford Pinto as John Kerry is to...

[Edited on 9-21-2004 by Parkbandit]

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I hate Ravenstorm... but knowing Psykos plays for his team makes me happy.

And knowing he votes for your team balances that out.

And I'm as old as you are so stop whining. Though I do have better taste in clothes since I own neither overalls nor flip-flops.

Raven

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
I thought he was saying that nobody has a reason to dislike Bush to such an extent that anyone (Kerry, Nader, Bobmuhthol) would make a better President than he.

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist - check me on this Tayre - to realize that 'anybody but Bush' translates to 'anybody but Bush who has reached a certain minimal level of competence in politics, leadership and domestic policy to get to the level of being a serious presidential candidate.

So no, Bob wouldn't qualify. Nor would Mary Kate Olsen. I'd vote for Tom Cruise only because he's so hot but he's the exception.

Raven

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I hate Ravenstorm... but knowing Psykos plays for his team makes me happy.

And knowing he votes for your team balances that out.

And I'm as old as you are so stop whining. Though I do have better taste in clothes since I own neither overalls nor flip-flops.

Raven

THEY ARE MAN-DLES.. I DO NOT OWN FLIP-FLOPS!

And the whole "I dress better than you" is obviously a gay thing that I cannot compete with. I bet you are neater than I am too.

[DeV]

Man-dles :rofl:

[Parkbandit]

Mandals vs flip flops

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
PS - Your analogy sucks. It can apply to anything in the world.

Why yes, it can. I don't want a Pinto in any facet of my life and I get rid of them when it turns out I have one. But suit yourself. Just don't claim no one has a reason to dislike Bush when you refuse to see them because of your partisanship.

Raven

If this was old times I'd challenge you to a duel!

[Slider]

Not to beat what is obviously a dead horse here with most of you Democrats out there, and not that I think that you will actually listen to anything so crass as the facts about Bush, but here goes. This pertains to all those "fair and un-biased" media sources listed above.

http://www.aim.org/aim_report/1926_0_4_0_C/

And for the #1 reason I refuse to vote for this two-faced pile of shit you want in office?

http://www.aim.org/aim_report/1786_0_4_0_C/

[Keller]

lol, as a Kerry supporter I am kind of distaught with those of you can't come up to the plate and knock this slow-pitch softball he's been throwing out of the park. SHM, kudos to you for hating the "I'm cool cause I can say anyone but BUsh" people. I hate them too. They make those of us who actually have reasons look like morons.

My wife and I are about to leave to go to rug shopping (yay?) so I will take the biggest swing I can here...

Batting fourth today for the Kerry Kampers is Ekonomiks! Of the two kinds of spending in the federal government, discretionary and mandatory, I will discuss only discretionary spending as mandatory is FUBAR. According to American Spectator, Bush's discretionary spending increased 21% in 2001 and 22% in 2002, each over the previous year. While cutting our tax pool he has increased our spending. He reminds me of the college kid who gets his first credit card, quits his job, and keeps finding new CDs, DVDs, or WARs he must have. Seeing how both Presidents will increase discretionary spending, as a fiscal conservative I would much rather pay Kerry's bill now then force my kids and grandkids to pay Bush's bill later -- especially once China catches up, which is happening sooner than later. Give me a Perot, give me anyone who will stop discretionary spending and I will vote for them -- until them I am voting for Kerry, cause at least he'll pay the bills.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I like Keller, he gets my point.

[Keller]

One more quick note about the whole Kerry trying to sabotage the Contra's.... I never knew that, and it sucks to say the least. It makes me wonder what the hell this country is coming to when these two, what was it ... fucktwits? .... screw it, I'll call them fucktards are the main party candidates.

But wasn't it Nicaragua where in 1980? (sorry, my wife is at the door waiting to go rug shopping or I would look this up) the United Fruit Company's land was nationalized for the amount that UFC had claimed it to be worth on their tax forms to the Nicaraguan government, which happened to be MUCH less than the actual worth? Then in swooped the CIA to overthrow the government and make sure the UFC would keep the land they had not been paying taxes on for years. Is that freedom?

[Pallon]

Yeah, Kerry's plan is pretty simplistic and obvious. Wonder why Bush didn't think of it at the BEGINNING of the war

[Ilvane]

We could get into how Reagan's administration helped trained Bin Laden, but then again..that's supposed to be unimportant.

Personally, I prefer Kerry because I think he will think hard before going to war, as opposed to trying to go at it alone, then after the fact when he knows he's screwed, goes back and realizes..Damn, I screwed up, and there are over 1000 troops dead, and more terrorist attacks and insurgents every day in Iraq.

-A

[Edited on 9-21-2004 by Ilvane]

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Slider
amusing crap about 'accuracy'

Just what is the 'Accuracy in Media' group? (http://www.webster-dictionary.org/definition/Accuracy%20in%20Media)

If that's your idea of a fair, unbalanced source? Seriously, get a grip. Really.

Raven

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
Who here (other than PB and HN) remembers the Ford Pinto?


<scowls>

[HarmNone]

Pinto? Isn't that a spotted horse? Yes. I'm sure it is. Of course!

HarmNone saw a Pinto once.........

[Slider]

Ah yes, but then such groups as MoveOn.org, one of the biggest Kerry financial support groups out there, would probably be a FAR better source for "fair and unbiased" news Ravenstorm? Or how about Moore's film? Yup, far suprior reporting there, right? Yes the sight is conservative, does that mean everything said there is a lie? According to you, yes it is, but anything said by a liberal news group is, of course, entirely factual? No spin, no bias, nothing?

Looks like your the one who needs to "get a grip"

[Ilvane]

Why does it not surprise me that the Chairman of this group you are referring to is a Republican Donor. He donates a bit too.

And the group was formed because of the supposed biased reporting by the liberal media..:lol:

You might want to read up on things the Reagan administration did, as well as the first Bush, before opening your mouth, Jack.

-A

P.S. Raven you beat me to it..but I had to laugh at this "At CBS's meetings, Irvine frequently denounced Walter Cronkite as a Soviet dupe. At a 1986 meeting, Irvine requested that Cronkite be removed from the CBS board of directors for allegedly supporting unilateral disarmament."

Fascinating stuff.



[Edited on 9-21-2004 by Ilvane]

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Slider
Ah yes, but then such groups as MoveOn.org, one of the biggest Kerry financial support groups out there, would probably be a FAR better source for "fair and unbiased" news Ravenstorm?

My. Isn't it strange how I have never once referenced MoveOn.org. Nor, in fact, have I ever been to their website. And it's certainly strange that I haven't gone to see F: 9/11 nor once ever used that movie or Moore as any sort of 'proof' of anything Bush has done.

So I'd have to say that no, those aren't any more unbiased than the piece of shit group you consider worth reading and use to back up your arguments. That finger you're pointing is poking you in your own eye.

Raven

[Pallon]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Here is what Bush IS doing (not saying like Kerry) to win the peace in Iraq:

* Getting more help in Iraq from other nations.
*Training the Iraqi Security forces
*Providing benefits to the Iraqi People.
*Ensuring the democratic elections can be held next year as promised.

Oh shit.. that sounded almost erily similar to Kerry's ground breaking plan! Oh that's right, IT WAS HIS PLAN!

That was my point of the initial post.. that Kerry simply is taking what Bush is already doing, changing nothing and presenting it as "his" plan. There is nothing new about this plan.



By far, the dumbest thing I have ever read. Wow.

OMG A BULLET POINT SUMMARY OF KERRY'S PLAN LOOKS SIMILAR TO BUSH'S PLAN!!!!111 THEY'RE THE SAME, BECAUSE NO PLAN CONTAINS ACTUAL DETAILS!!!111 OMGZ LOLOL!!!!!!11111eleven

Yeah, Bush is getting more help from the UN. By making a speech six weeks before election. I bet they fall over themselves to help us as a result.

Kerry it talking about giving other countries a larger piece of the reconstruction action (read: oil), I.E., giving them a compelling reason to enter the black hole of suck Bush has created, as opposed to handing off everything to Halliburton.

Yeah, we're training the Iraqi Security Forces all right. In large part by ourselves, and very slowly. UN members are supposed to be sending us their own trainers to help in accordance with a resolution passed earlier. Guess how that turned out (see above).

Yeah, both Bush and Kerry want to bring benefits to the Iraqi people. No shit, Sherlock, is Kerry supposed to NOT want to bring them benefits? Kerry also wants to get the Iraqi workers involved in a major way in the reconstruction process (instead of U.S. contractors) so that they will stop shooting us.

I'm spent

[Slider]

Ok, Ilvane, how about this, go back and actually look and see if anything in that news article i posted a link too is un-true?

Did Kerry go to Nicaragua and meet with Ortega, yes he did. Was Ortega a communist? Damn, yes he was.

Did Kerry falsify reports that the Reagan administration and the CIA where involved in drug smuggling? Yup, he did. In fact, the the head of a House Subcommitee (DEMOCRAT Lee Hamilton) found NO evidence to support Kerry's claim. So wether or not it comes from a conservative sight or not, these things DID happen.

Prove me wrong Ilvane. For once don't come back with the argument that It's all a smear campaign of the conservatives. Prove me wrong. Show me his voting record on aid to the contras, show me his support for the war against communism. And yes, it was a war. The Soviet Union was sending billions of dollars in aid as well as meterial support, and training cadres to communist regimes all over the world Ilvane, as well as trying to de-stabilize democratic regimes in South America, Africa, and anywhere else they could do so.

But then again, from your posts, it's never an excuse to get involved, correct?

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Ilvane
We could get into how Reagan's administration helped trained Bin Laden, but then again..that's supposed to be unimportant.For this election, I would say it is. Here's why: Bush != Reagan. As a disproof to the saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", I would say it's very good.
Personally, I prefer Kerry because I think he will think hard before going to warOne doesn't have to think hard to read the polls. (I consider the preceding remark to be on equal footing with any remark dismissing the intelligence of the President and/or his advsiors.)
Originally posted by Ravenstorm
to realize that 'anybody but Bush' translates to 'anybody but Bush who has reached a certain minimal level of competence in politics, leadership and domestic policy to get to the level of being a serious presidential candidate. I've heard a Democrat say he would vote for a ham sandwich over Bush. While your definition of "anybody but Bush" no doubt applies to you, there are others who mean it in the literal (or "stupid") sense.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
I've heard a Democrat say he would vote for a ham sandwich over Bush.

I believe it would be reasonable for most people to conclude that that would be an example of hyperbole used to illustrate the lack of desirability of having Dubya as a President for another four years.

Further, I could reasonably assume that it is also being used as an analogy, comparing Bush's intelligence to that of a food item composed of two of the major food groups (not counting condiments). Also, since the fact that said food item lacks any ability to actually do anything other than sit there, it isn't beyond the realm of possibility to conclude that it is also a political commentary on what Bush has already accomplished by comparing it to the sandwich's inherent inability to further damage the US.

Or maybe he was just hungry.

Raven

[Latrinsorm]

Yes, it is possible those crazy Democrats could have been using some of that "humor" stuff. I'll have to check the Bible.

[Back]

I'm not going to post Kerry's detailed plans for his presidency again. Obviously, those who aren't interested won't read it second time.

When people say "the lesser of two evils" they mean, the better choice between two mediocre options. Why anyone would vote for the greater of two evils is beyond my comprehension.

I don't see that kind of decision making as bad, whimping, or illogical. I see it as smart. You have to chose between great deals on two Bang & Olfsen stereos, same price, except one has a busted antenna, and the other a busted screen. Which do you pick? Only a dumbass would pick the one that was more fucked up.

For me, Kerry is not the lesser of two evils. Everyone thought Dean was going to be the candidate. I had reservations about Dean, but waited to see. Turns out, the majority of democrats picked Kerry out of 8 possible choices. Kerry wasn't even on the radar then turns into the candidate. This tells me that all those people who listened to all those possible candidates decided that Kerry was the best choice.

Kerry is the best candidate right now for president, in my opinion. I won't bore you with specifics because I've said them over and over with posted sources. I would encourage everyone to figure it out for themselves.

Don't forget to register to vote. Deadline to register is October so get on it!

[Keller]

I don't think anyone would vote for a ham sandwich to lead a country. Quit being a tard. As Zell Miller might say, "You know what a meta-fur is? Doya?" Yes, some people are on the Kerry-Bandwagon because it's the cool thing to do and that gives people who actually support Kerry for valid reasons a bad name. It pisses the hell out of us too, believe me.

As to how smart Bush's team is, they're fucking brilliant. Don't be deceived by the ringleader with a speech impediment and an actual personality (Kerry would be a terrible dinner guest).

As far as groups like AIM and MoveOn, they obviously pick and choose what to report. So they ARE good sources of information as long as you aren't going to read only their articles and take it as gospel truth. Be a skeptic, ask tough questions, read the opposition, make up your own damn mind.

Let's quit slinging mud at each other and present a case why each candidate is better than the other. Saying "Your candidate sucks ass" is immature and gets us no where. And for those of you who support Kerry and can't actually support him go read some articles tonight instead of playing Gemstone. Formulate a rationale for your opinion other than Bush Sucks. You are making a mockery of democracy if you're just going to vote for the popular candidate. And I guarentee those kids in Iraq are not dying for you to sit on your ass playing a video game and picking the cool guy in November. I can promise that.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Keller
I don't think anyone would vote for a ham sandwich to lead a country. Quit being a tard.Yes, how stupid of me to quote a democrat who was speaking without any inflection in his voice. :?:

[Keller]

What's he going to vote with? Spitballs!?!?!

Don't be a tard.

[TheEschaton]

But wasn't it Nicaragua where in 1980? (sorry, my wife is at the door waiting to go rug shopping or I would look this up) the United Fruit Company's land was nationalized for the amount that UFC had claimed it to be worth on their tax forms to the Nicaraguan government, which happened to be MUCH less than the actual worth? Then in swooped the CIA to overthrow the government and make sure the UFC would keep the land they had not been paying taxes on for years. Is that freedom?

I'm pretty sure that was Panama, not Nicaragua.

But I'm confused. It seems like we, as a country, agreed that funding the contras was a bad thing. People get caught up in the "Communist Scare" that was the fear of Ortega and the Sandinistas, but all that was more rhetoric on the part of the McCarthyites in the U.S. Gov't. Who did Ortega replace? Anastasio Samoza, a dictator of epic proportions....how did Samoza rise to power? Oh yeah.....WE SUPPORTED HIM.

Damn, grow up. Kerry met with Ortega? So what? Did the Sandinistas do certain things to gain power? Of course. The difference is, when they're not supported by the U.S. they're "terrorists", when they are, they're "freedom fighters", a la the Taliban in the 80s, with the head "Freedom Fighter" of them all, Usama bin Laden. Damn, I go to the Catholic Church every Sunday, and they supported Ortega too. Uh oh, we must be a bunch of evil communists.

-TheE-

[Keller]

I would call the Catholic Church more scandanavian socialist -- but they are still evil for sure.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Backlash
For me, Kerry is not the lesser of two evils. Everyone thought Dean was going to be the candidate. I had reservations about Dean, but waited to see. Turns out, the majority of democrats picked Kerry out of 8 possible choices. Kerry wasn't even on the radar then turns into the candidate. This tells me that all those people who listened to all those possible candidates decided that Kerry was the best choice.


Many Democrats.. looking back.. regret their decision during the primaries. He wasn't the best choice out of the Democrats because he is far too liberal to get the needed swing vote from the middle. I was actually surprised and elated that Kerry was chosen. Like you, I thought Dean was the heir apparent.. but his mental lapse during his 'victory' speech caused his demise.

[TheEschaton]

I just thank God Joe Lieberman didn't get the nod. Dick Gephardt might of been better able to swing the midwest voters, but I don't think he was right for the nomination. I think they picked the right guy. Liberal enough to assuage Dean's "democratic wing of the Democratic party", but savvy enough to actually have a chance of winning. Dean had the same chance I have of winning the Presidency.

Bush vs. Lieberman would of been like picking between off-white and eggshell white.....they're both white, damn it!


-TheE-

[Back]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Backlash
For me, Kerry is not the lesser of two evils. Everyone thought Dean was going to be the candidate. I had reservations about Dean, but waited to see. Turns out, the majority of democrats picked Kerry out of 8 possible choices. Kerry wasn't even on the radar then turns into the candidate. This tells me that all those people who listened to all those possible candidates decided that Kerry was the best choice.


Many Democrats.. looking back.. regret their decision during the primaries. He wasn't the best choice out of the Democrats because he is far too liberal to get the needed swing vote from the middle. I was actually surprised and elated that Kerry was chosen. Like you, I thought Dean was the heir apparent.. but his mental lapse during his 'victory' speech caused his demise.

Ok, PB. Can I start making stuff up like you do? Where do you get the idea that many democrats looking back would have picked someone else? Kerry led before when you claim.

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Parkbandit Like you, I thought Dean was the heir apparent.. but his mental lapse during his 'victory' speech caused his demise.

Well, that and the fact that CNN had it on a nearly continuous loop. If they played you screaming at a football game 200 times a day, you'd start to look silly, too.

Anyway, I wouldn't call it a mental lapse. He was trying to get his camp excited, and gave a speech much like a coach would. It's not like he bit the head off a baby.

To summarize: Getting excited :thumbsup: Biting heads off babies :thumbsdown:

Jorddyn

[Warriorbird]

Heh, Slider. Don't even get me started on the shit we've pulled with Nicaragua. You don't want to go down that road as a conservative.

"I...I can't remember!"

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Backlash
Ok, PB. Can I start making stuff up like you do? Where do you get the idea that many democrats looking back would have picked someone else? Kerry led before when you claim.

Come on Backlash.. I realize you want to support this nominee because he is what your party voted for, but even you cannot be thrilled that he is your nominee. MANY people in the Democratic party were and are concerned about his 20 voting record and his extreme liberal views.. and toning both of them down to make him seem like a more 'mainstream' candidate.

Personally, I'm glad he got the nod. If it had been almost anyone else, I think the race would be tipped towards the Democrats right now.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Jorddyn

Originally posted by Parkbandit Like you, I thought Dean was the heir apparent.. but his mental lapse during his 'victory' speech caused his demise.

Well, that and the fact that CNN had it on a nearly continuous loop. If they played you screaming at a football game 200 times a day, you'd start to look silly, too.

Anyway, I wouldn't call it a mental lapse. He was trying to get his camp excited, and gave a speech much like a coach would. It's not like he bit the head off a baby.

To summarize: Getting excited :thumbsup: Biting heads off babies :thumbsdown:

Jorddyn

It didn't make him look 'Presidential' and was obviously something he would do over again if he had the chance. Even though he didn't win the first primary, it was the end of Dean as a viable candidate.

[Back]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Backlash
Ok, PB. Can I start making stuff up like you do? Where do you get the idea that many democrats looking back would have picked someone else? Kerry led before when you claim.

Come on Backlash.. I realize you want to support this nominee because he is what your party voted for, but even you cannot be thrilled that he is your nominee. MANY people in the Democratic party were and are concerned about his 20 voting record and his extreme liberal views.. and toning both of them down to make him seem like a more 'mainstream' candidate.

Personally, I'm glad he got the nod. If it had been almost anyone else, I think the race would be tipped towards the Democrats right now.

To be honest, I had to warm up to him and find out what he is about. Now, I am fully supporting him. He has the credentials and experience that I feel far outweigh our current president.

I’ve read some posts here on these boards about people being dissatisfied with Kerry as the nominee, but thats about it. Most people I talk with don’t even bring up the primaries. If you are getting your sample from here, then we can also say many, if not most, republicans disagree with our current presidents handling of things.

[ThisOtherKingdom]

hyyeeeahhhh (http://dean.ytmnd.com)

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Backlash

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Backlash
Ok, PB. Can I start making stuff up like you do? Where do you get the idea that many democrats looking back would have picked someone else? Kerry led before when you claim.

Come on Backlash.. I realize you want to support this nominee because he is what your party voted for, but even you cannot be thrilled that he is your nominee. MANY people in the Democratic party were and are concerned about his 20 voting record and his extreme liberal views.. and toning both of them down to make him seem like a more 'mainstream' candidate.

Personally, I'm glad he got the nod. If it had been almost anyone else, I think the race would be tipped towards the Democrats right now.

To be honest, I had to warm up to him and find out what he is about. Now, I am fully supporting him. He has the credentials and experience that I feel far outweigh our current president.

I’ve read some posts here on these boards about people being dissatisfied with Kerry as the nominee, but thats about it. Most people I talk with don’t even bring up the primaries. If you are getting your sample from here, then we can also say many, if not most, republicans disagree with our current presidents handling of things.

Of course you support him now.. he IS the nominee. This was a pretty mainstream story back when he was called "the presumed Democratic Nominee". I think the Democrats have really backed him as of late and I do believe he will close the gap. His attacks lately have been effective and he has started to draw lines in the sand where he actually takes a stand. That is what he needed to do to try and downplay the 'waffle' moniker.

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

It didn't make him look 'Presidential'

I totally agree. It's why I rather liked it. People banter about how they want someone they can relate to. Everyone (well, almost) has had something they were so excited about they started screaming/growling/cheering/hollering. I liked it more than a "thumbs-up and wave as entering the limo."


and was obviously something he would do over again if he had the chance.

Totally agree.


Even though he didn't win the first primary, it was the end of Dean as a viable candidate.

Totally agree. It's too bad that we let him lose because of one "ARrrrrrrrrrrRrr" rather than focus on the issues.

Jorddyn, did I just agree with PB?

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Jorddyn
Jorddyn, did I just agree with PB?

I'll have you attending Republican meetings within a year.

MUUUAAAHAAAA! MY MASTER PLAN IS WORKING!!

Now to work harder on Wezas....

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I think the Democrats have really backed him as of late and I do believe he will close the gap. His attacks lately have been effective and he has started to draw lines in the sand where he actually takes a stand. That is what he needed to do to try and downplay the 'waffle' moniker.

I've thought so as well myself and it's about fucking time. Let's face it, Kerry really isn't much better at public speaking than Bush is though they're bad in different ways. Kerry has tried to present a thoughtful image: one that allows room for compromise based on changing variables. He rarely speaks in definites. This isn't a bad trait in a person. But it is bad in a speaker who needs to fire up people.

He's also taken off the kid gloves. At the Democratic Convention, he wanted to take the high ground and present a positive image. We've all seen how well that works in American politics. Finally, he's figured out he needs to come out swinging and be definite in what he says. Bush has twisted the image of the intellectual into one of indecision and Kerry played right into that.

I just hope it's not too late. We'll see.

Raven

[Parkbandit]

Either way, the debates should be quite entertaining.:popcorn:

[Back]

Yeah, waaaay back when I posted about how the dems should raise some hell. Looks like I was right.

I’m really impressed with what Edwards has been saying lately to counter all the republican claims. You don’t hear what he has to say often enough I’m afriad.

Can’t wait for the debates. I think Tamral said historically the debates have no impact. Maybe they will this year.

I’ve decided to take Nov. 2 off so I can go vote without hassle, then in true Amrican fashion, drink beer while watching the race. :beer:

[GSTamral]

not true Backlash.

The Debates typically have 0 impact on about 80% of the voters. Those are people who have already made up their mind. Most of the undecideds make their decision based on the first debate.

[Back]

Originally posted by GSTamral
not true Backlash.

The Debates typically have 0 impact on about 80% of the voters. Those are people who have already made up their mind. Most of the undecideds make their decision based on the first debate.

Ahh, must’ve misread. So sorry old chap.

[Ravenstorm]

And the electoral-vote.com site has Kerry leading again in the latest installment of this see-saw. Whether that's because of Kerry's new game plan, the dying of Bush's convention bounce, a combination of the two or whatever... who knows. It's obviously still a close race.

Personally, I prefer obvious landslides.

Raven