Lockpicking Rogue Help please!

[Menace]

Hey everyone, Ive been looking through the forums/krakiipedia and I wanted to roll up a lockpicking rogue that is still viable combat wise(stealth/ambush with handaxe/dagger + buckler). This is what Ive come up with:

1x Armor Use till ?? - Ive seen 50 ranks as a good stopping point but would like more clarification. The current training plan can afford to keep 1x for life
1x Shield Use - Not sure if this should be 2x.
2x OHE
1x CM - Sacrificing 2x in order to nab 3x pick/disarm, the main goal of the build. Need some assistance regarding CMAN priority, I think Mobility, Vanish, Shadow mastery, Surge of Strength, and Armor Specialization. Any others to consider?
2x Ambush
1x PF - Should I increase to 1.5x as a priority?
2x Dodging
15 Ranks Climb/Swim by Level 50 - I know I will need more but everyone says a different number. How far should I take the ranks?
3x Disarm Traps
3x Lockpicking
3x Stalking/Hiding - Initially 2x, but from my research here it seems 3x is the only way to go, everyone who does seems to advocate this very much.
2x Perception
5 ranks AS by 50 - Ive read more needed for scarabs, but doesnt 3x Disarm Traps help in this regard? Eventually plan on 15 ranks
15 ranks MIU by 50- Rogue will have wizard spells and eventually haste imbeds for when the rogue is not with the wizard, but usually will be.

Post 50 I plan on getting some Harness Power ranks (5-10ish) and Spell Training in to about 406.

If theres anything I'm missing please let me know. I know there isnt any FA/Surv but I dont plan on skinning with the rogue. Thank you for reviewing this and for any advice you may have.

[DaCapn]

Seems like a good plan. Let your hunting strategy dictate your armor use. If you train up through 410 and intend to use it in the field, you really shouldn't shoot for heavier than chain shirt. Brig would be more common. End-game is a different conversation. If you're not going to cast at all in combat, I see no reason to advocate for anything below MBP in the long term.

[GuildRat]

Not to rain on your parade, but I don't see you having the TPs to execute that training plan from the get-go.

Easiest and least TP intensive way to go 3x/3x pick/disarm is to go open archer.

[Candor]

In general you have a good training plan, but I don't see the tps for it.

Believe you can disarm all scarabs once you have 200 skill in disarm. Assumes no injuries on your body.

1x PF should be fine for now...much later you can think about increasing it.

1x shield is fine but you should consider upgrading it later in your career.

I use a 2x stalk/hide rogue and mostly he does well, but there are a few critters he has trouble getting successful hides.

[Laviticas]

Using handaxe for ambush is going to require at least up to hauberk. You are always going to have a 6 second rt. You will be taking hits, IMO forget about 410 and 2x PF, dodge and as close to 2x cman as possible. Let how much you train in picking dictate how much cman you train. 2x smithing and 404 will get 95% of your own boxes.

[Candor]

Using handaxe for ambush is going to require at least up to hauberk. You are always going to have a 6 second rt. You will be taking hits, IMO forget about 410 and 2x PF, dodge and as close to 2x cman as possible. Let how much you train in picking dictate how much cman you train. 2x smithing and 404 will get 95% of your own boxes.

Once you start hunting areas that a nearly-capped or capped rogue would hunt, that 95% percent figure will go down. I started 3x disarm/pick once I was capped as I got tired of the number of boxes I couldn't open. The Scattered area in particular has many boxes that you need more than 2x disarm/pick to get.

[Laviticas]

agree on the 2x smithing towards cap. I was good until bowels, decided screw the boxes and dropped down to 1x, lost all 4 me spell ranks threw most those points in to cmans. Did keep the disarming ranks and just wedge my boxes, that's if I even hunt

[DaCapn]

Once you start hunting areas that a nearly-capped or capped rogue would hunt, that 95% percent figure will go down. I started 3x disarm/pick once I was capped as I got tired of the number of boxes I couldn't open. The Scattered area in particular has many boxes that you need more than 2x disarm/pick to get.

Around 70, you start to run into such areas. You can cheat a bit by bringing disarm up to 3x and using wedges if you're tight on points. If you're 2x with lores, I wouldn't expect to be able to get more than half of the boxes that come out of the scatter.

[Candor]

Around 70, you start to run into such areas. You can cheat a bit by bringing disarm up to 3x and using wedges if you're tight on points. If you're 2x with lores, I wouldn't expect to be able to get more than half of the boxes that come out of the scatter.

I couldn't even do half of the Scattered boxes. Perhaps a third...maybe.

I didn't have any significant picking problems until I started hunting the mino maze, but it wasn't too bad..perhaps 10% of the boxes I couldn't get. Then the Bowels...perhaps 20%. After the Bowels I started hunting Plane 5 of the Rift and found I could get almost all of the boxes - call it 2% I couldn't get. At this point I thought I was Lord Hot Picker and started picking Scattered boxes. Five broken picks later, I stopped.

After awhile, I started hunting OTF and found that I couldn't get about a third of the boxes, so I adjusted my training plan and started on the road to 3x disarm/pick. I am at 2.5x on both and have stopped there for now as I can pick around 90% of the boxes I find. I hear that the Temple in Teras can generate some of the toughest boxes in the game, so I may reassess later as I plan to move to Teras in several weeks.

The bottom line is that 2x disarm/pick will serve you fine until you become old enough for perhaps the Bowels, then the limitations of 2x training will start to show.

[Loagan]

You only need 1x perception. You'll be able to see every trap with 1x, and you'll really be fine considering you'll have 402. ;)

[Victorj]

If you're gonna do 1x perception, I would recommend 2x till 30-40ish or so, and then dropping to 1x then. When you're like, level 10-20, you're gonna be missing a lot of traps with just 1x.

[Candor]

Perception apparently helps with ambushing a specific body area on a target. How much it helps in this regard, I don't know.

[m444w]

Perception apparently helps with ambushing a specific body area on a target. How much it helps in this regard, I don't know.

Untrue.

[Candor]

Below is a direct cut/paste from play.net. Note the second to the last sentence. If I am misunderstanding, I would appreciate being enlightened.

Also note the following output when I entered AIM HEAD:
You're now aiming at the head of your target when using a ranged weapon, or while ambushing.

--------------------------------

Perception
First and foremost, the Perception skill affects how much information your character is able to gather from the surroundings. Watching or searching an area, room, object or being can reveal important features that you can use to your advantage.

It is also possible to SEARCH for characters, depending upon your Perception skill versus the Stalking and Hiding skill of the concealed individuals. The Perception skill is automatically factored in if someone tries to hide in the room from you or stalk you. Additionally, the Perception skill assists in spotting players attempting to move stealthily in and out of the area.

The Perception skill allows for greater success in foraging (FORAGE), spotting traps (DISARM), and spotting characters that may attempt to STEAL from you.

In combat, the Perception skill provides a bonus to strike at an AIMed body location on a specified target. This skill also provides an attack strength (AS) bonus for ranged attacks and a defense strength (DS) bonus for users of missile weapons

[m444w]

That's what you get for trusting the Play.net docs.


Category: Rogues
Topic: So You Want to be a Rogue?
Message number: 11313
Author: GS4-ILDRAN
Date: 7/5/2008 8:27:17 PM
Subject: Re: Playing my rogue again

>If so this is a serious change from before. When did he post that? I'd be curious to know when it took place.

Perception (http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Perception) hasn't ever helped with aiming melee weapons (though it does help with aiming ranged weapons). The only skills involved have been Ambush (http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Ambush) and Combat Maneuvers (http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Maneuvers) since the AMBUSH verb was created.

- Consigliere Ildran, Shizlock Holmesplice

[Candor]

That's what you get for trusting the Play.net docs.

Well stupid me for trusting the documentation from the developer. Good thing I didn't adjust my training.

[Kalishar]

Well it's not technically wrong, it just doesn't specify ranged or melee.

[Candor]

Well it's not technically wrong, it just doesn't specify ranged or melee.

That makes it wrong.

[Kalishar]

Not technically, since it does "aid in aiming". It certainly does need to specify, though.

It just made YOU wrong.