Pete Rose

[edge]

Pete Rose was banned from the hall of fame for betting on his own team to win. Ok. If we are going to hold high standards on what you do out of the game. Ty Cobb should be removed. He was racist, jumped in the stands and beat a armless hecklor and admitted cutting the flesh of a wouldbe muggers face. This would warrants his removel by the new standards people are being admitted to the hall of fame by. What do you think? I think personally think Pete must have banged the commissioners wife, mistress or daughter to be this hated by the man. Fuck the public. We don't matter, only the commissioner on this subject.

[Edited on 9-1-2003 by edge]

[Stacey]

Pete Rose should be let in the baseball hall of fame. There are worse things done by players. I don't think he should have to admit that he bet on baseball either. Personally, I think he did and still don't care.

Stacey

[HarmNone]

Babe Ruth is there. Ty Cobb is there. Mickey Mantle is there. None of these were paragons of human virtue. It never made sense to me that Pete Rose was denied a place in the baseball Hall of Fame.

HarmNone

[edge]

I am telling you. He did something like sleep with the commissioners family or friend and disrespected them. I always felt that is what Allen did to Al Davis. Why he benched him when he was the best player for the job. Paid him, but tried to ruin his career.

[Scott]

Nah, they just took a strong stance on him not being allowed back in that they are almost at the point where they can't go back on what they said.

[Gokkem]

Shame what Al Davis did to Marcus Allen. Even though I'm a diehard raiders fan, I chuckled on the inside everytime Allen whipped the raiders when he was a chief.

Pete Rose? He's paid his dues. Let him in already.

[longshot]

He bet on his own team... you don't bet on baseball when you're in baseball.

There's hard evidence to prove this, yet he remains indignant that he is innocent.

So often now, if a player admits to his wrong doing, the public seems quite willing to forgive.

Pete, however, is a moron.

He has shown no forgiveness, and therefore should not be let in.

I wish he would go away.

Thank god I'm not the only one who feels this way.

[Weedmage Princess]

I disagree, Longshot. Yes, his actions could be viewed as dispicable. He might not be an upstanding person, but he's not trying to get into the Good Samaritan Hall of Fame, he's going for the Basball Hall of Fame. All that matters are his accomplishments on the field.

OJ Simpson is in the Football Hall of Fame. Michael Jordan without a doubt will be entered into the Basketball Hall of Fame. Not that I'm trying to make light of Pete Rose's actions, but I think the actions of those two men off the football field and basketball court are more serious than Rose's. Yet I haven't heard any arguments regarding their status.

[Ben]

At least it wasn't against his own team.

[Lord Deprav]

Originally posted by longshot
He bet on his own team... you don't bet on baseball when you're in baseball.

There's hard evidence to prove this, yet he remains indignant that he is innocent.

So often now, if a player admits to his wrong doing, the public seems quite willing to forgive.

Pete, however, is a moron.

He has shown no forgiveness, and therefore should not be let in.

I wish he would go away.

Thank god I'm not the only one who feels this way.

You totally hit exactly how I feel. He is a very wrong person.

There is millions of things he could have gambled on...but he didn't. He went against a rule for which his employer had restricted on him.

Say your business puts you into their hall of fame before you quit working there. And then you do something to disgrace you business, not to mention against their policy. Do they leave your name up for everyone to see and remember? If so let me know so I can work their and screw around like Pete Rose did in baseball.

If I was a Hall of Famer, I would do the same thing Tommy Lasorda and Bob Fellar said they would do, and take my plaque down from the Hall of Fame. I would not want to be recognize at the same level as that piece of junk.

Deprav
Baseball Historian.

[Lord Deprav]

Originally posted by edge
Pete Rose was banned from the hall of fame for betting on his own team to win. Ok. If we are going to hold high standards on what you do out of the game. Ty Cobb should be removed. He was racist, jumped in the stands and beat a armless hecklor and admitted cutting the flesh of a wouldbe muggers face. This would warrants his removel by the new standards people are being admitted to the hall of fame by. What do you think? I think personally think Pete must have banged the commissioners wife, mistress or daughter to be this hated by the man. Fuck the public. We don't matter, only the commissioner on this subject.

[Edited on 9-1-2003 by edge]

Don't ever compare Ty Cobb and Pete Rose. There not even in the same boat. Very few rules outside of the sport when Cobb played. Pete Rose knew the rules and they haven't changed since 1919.

If you want to compare anyone compare him to Joe Jackson. He accepted gambling money on baseball.

If anyone Buck Weaver should be the first person to be looked at to be put in the Hall of Fame. He never accepted money and yet he was banned just for the knowledge of gambling on baseball.

Deprav

[edge]

<Don't ever compare Ty Cobb and Pete Rose. >

Ty Cobb broke the law on several occasions and disgraced baseball with his actions more then Pete Rose did hands down. Jumping into the stands and beating a armless man for heckling him. Being an open racist and cruel man. Admittingly cutting the flesh of another mans face and leaving him to die because he tried to mug him. He beat people and was a hate filled man. He didn't hide it at all. You need to get a grip on reality here. He did by far worse things than betting on your OWN team to win. If Pete Rose is being refused from the hall of fame and new standards are being applied. They need to remove Ty Cobb from it.

Originally posted by edge
<Don't ever compare Ty Cobb and Pete Rose. >

Ty Cobb broke the law on several occasions and disgraced baseball with his actions more then Pete Rose did hands down. Jumping into the stands and beating a armless man for heckling him. Being an open racist and cruel man. Admittingly cutting the flesh of another mans face and leaving him to die because he tried to mug him. He beat people and was a hate filled man. He didn't hide it at all. You need to get a grip on reality here. He did by far worse things than betting on your OWN team to win. If Pete Rose is being refused from the hall of fame and new standards are being applied. They need to remove Ty Cobb from it.


Ty cobb OwNs.

[longshot]

Originally posted by edge
<Don't ever compare Ty Cobb and Pete Rose. >

Ty Cobb broke the law on several occasions and disgraced baseball with his actions more then Pete Rose did hands down. Jumping into the stands and beating a armless man for heckling him. Being an open racist and cruel man. Admittingly cutting the flesh of another mans face and leaving him to die because he tried to mug him. He beat people and was a hate filled man. He didn't hide it at all. You need to get a grip on reality here. He did by far worse things than betting on your OWN team to win. If Pete Rose is being refused from the hall of fame and new standards are being applied. They need to remove Ty Cobb from it.

Ty Cobb is an asshole. But, his actions had little, if anything to do with the game of baseball.

He is not in the nice guy hall of fame. He is in the baseball hall of fame.

Pete Rose bet on BASEBALL! This is where you seen to not get it. Here, his off the field actions had a direct impact on the game. Breaking the law has little to do with the BASEBALL hall of fame. Breaking the rules of BASEBALL does.

Read that last paragraph again if you need to. Repeat as necessary.

Moreover, despite all the evidence that this transgressed... he denies it like he's a little kid. I honestly believe that if he owned up, people would forgive him. But, he's a fucking asshole.

No hall for Pete.
Sorry.

Let him hawk his sperm on QVC.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by longshot
Ty Cobb is an asshole. But, his actions had little, if anything to do with the game of baseball.

He is not in the nice guy hall of fame. He is in the baseball hall of fame.

Pete Rose bet on BASEBALL! This is where you seen to not get it. Here, his off the field actions had a direct impact on the game. Breaking the law has little to do with the BASEBALL hall of fame. Breaking the rules of BASEBALL does.

Actually many a player from Cobb's era have commented about Cobb's playing style and have said that were it not for his dirty game, he wouldn't have achieved the hall of fame statistics.

Cobb did his rule breaking on the field. Ric Flair didn't coin the phrase of "dirtiest player in the game"; Cobb's then piers did in reference to Cobb.

So using your logic, since Cobb didn't break any of Baseball's rules off the field, it's certainly ok that he remains in the Hall. Since Pete broke a rule off the field, he should be ostracized for life.

I'm sorry, I can't agree with that logic.

Pete Rose is probably every bit of a jackass that Cobb ever was. No one however is accusing Pete of breaking rules on the field for the "W".

[longshot]

I honestly have no idea how Ty Cobb got dragged into this conversation.

Cobb was dirty, but there were rules back then as well. Being a dirty player should not excempt you from the hall of fame. He was only as dirty as the rules would allow him to be.

You break a rule, you get punished. True in anything.

If an on the field issue was so serious that it results in a player being banned for life, then he would be banned.

Sammy used a corked bat, and got 8 games. He admitted responsibility, and got it reduced to 7? I could be off one in each direction... not positive.

Alomar spit in the face of an Umpire. He was suspended. I forgot the number of games.

Neither of these instances tarnished the game enough to merit a lifetime ban.

In a parallel example, using the NHL...

Daryl Hunter cross checked (shit... forgot his name) AFTER he scored the winning goal to eliminate the capitals from the playoffs. He recieved (at that time) the longest suspension in NHL history. I believe 35 games.

McSorely cracked a guy in the skull, meriting a lifetime ban from the NHL.

It doesn't matter where it occurred... the point is a lifetime ban is a lifetime ban.

Pete Rose is banned for life. End of story. He should not, ever, be in the hall of fame. I could give a shit if ran out ground balls to first base, or if he had 8,000 hits.

To me, it's unbelievable the kind of sympathy this unapolagetic waste of space undeservedly receives.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by RangerD1


Ty cobb OwNs.

Cobb was a punk.

A punk who could play baseball, but a huge punk nonetheless, just a small human being.

To me, the hall should reflect more than just stats and people like Rose and Cobb should have no place in it.

[Neildo]

OJ Simpson is in the Football Hall of Fame. Michael Jordan without a doubt will be entered into the Basketball Hall of Fame. Not that I'm trying to make light of Pete Rose's actions, but I think the actions of those two men off the football field and basketball court are more serious than Rose's. Yet I haven't heard any arguments regarding their status.

Adultery, big whoop. I don't see how MJ sleeping with another woman is more worse than what Pete Rose did. I actually don't even have a problem with Pete Rose gambling, however, since it was a rule in the game of baseball to not do so yet he did, then it's wrong. Both are still sorta lame, but I wouldn't say adultery was worse than gambling.

Adultery is one of the stupidest laws ever. And mark my words, one of these days that law will no longer exist. :P

- N

[Lord Deprav]

Originally posted by Skirmisher


To me, the hall should reflect more than just stats and people like Rose and Cobb should have no place in it.

That is insane. Everything in baseball has to do with statistics. Why should more count?

I do have a grip on reality. Ty Cobb was a genious. He may have been proclaimed "as the dirtiest player." Although its funny...in all the statistics I have looked up I have never seen once where Ty Cobb was suspended.

Do you think Babe Ruth called his shot?
Do you think Doubleday invented baseball?
Do you think Ty Cobb really beat up a man with no arms?

All locker room myths. You decide. Some stories about Ty Cobb may be for real and some may not.

It will be a great day when someone beats Pete Roses hit record. Then everyone will forget that piece of junk.

And hey if you want to have a counter arguement about myths...Pete Rose did sign papers that said he was gambling on baseball. And just to get it straight...What baseball has always asked from Pete is to simply appologize for what he did. He is way too much of an ass to appologize for what he did.

Ty Cobb may have broke the law...but I am guessing maybe you did once in your life. Did he get put in jail for it...No?

I cannot believe you people have no respect for Cobb. He was the first millionaire in baseball. Not to mention a genious in his time.

P.S. His movie was released on DVD today.

Lord Deprav
Who loves the Georgia Peach.

[Edited on 9-3-2003 by Lord Deprav]

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Lord Deprav


That is insane. Everything in baseball has to do with statistics. Why should more count?

Because as much as being a great basball player is nice and all, as i said, there should be SOME minimum level of acceptable behavior to be allowed in the hall. Ty Cobb was in no way someone you would want to point to and have your child emulate.




I do have a grip on reality. Ty Cobb was a genious. He may have been proclaimed "as the dirtiest player." Although its funny...in all the statistics I have looked up I have never seen once where Ty Cobb was suspended.

Would he be today for many things he did back then? Hell yes.



Do you think Babe Ruth called his shot?
Do you think Doubleday invented baseball?
Do you think Ty Cobb really beat up a man with no arms?

All locker room myths. You decide. Some stories about Ty Cobb may be for real and some may not.


Ty Cobb hurt people, on purpose. He seemed to revel in inflicting pain. I don't care if he went after some handicaped individual or not, that would simply be an over the top addition to his lack of decency.



It will be a great day when someone beats Pete Roses hit record. Then everyone will forget that piece of junk.

And hey if you want to have a counter arguement about myths...Pete Rose did sign papers that said he was gambling on baseball. And just to get it straight...What baseball has always asked from Pete is to simply appologize for what he did. He is way too much of an ass to appologize for what he did.


Rose is a loser. He had such a relatively simple way out, but he really thought that just becasue he was Pete Rose he could just lie to everyones face and that no one would dare call him on it. His ego has killed him and his legacy.



Ty Cobb may have broke the law...but I am guessing maybe you did once in your life. Did he get put in jail for it...No?

I cannot believe you people have no respect for Cobb. He was the first millionaire in baseball. Not to mention a genious in his time.

P.S. His movie was released on DVD today.

Lord Deprav
Who loves the Georgia Peach.

[Edited on 9-3-2003 by Lord Deprav]

Simply being intelligent or being strong or fast or whatever is not something that deserves respect.

What repect I have for his ability to play baseball is melted away for the lack of respect he had for his fellow players and people in general.

Respect is not a right, it's earned. And whatever respect his ability earned, his lack of any character spent and then some.

[edge]

<Do you think Ty Cobb really beat up a man with no arms? >

It's not a myth. Sorry to say. There are still players from when Ty Cobb played. Hell, was one on Leno that was a black guy. He said he could not believe someone could beat a armless guy. Also said he called all the blacks nigger nonstop. But hey. Don't believe someone that played with him. That is your choice. But to many people have said this about him, that knew him, Ty Cobb should be removed if they changed the rules for Pete Rose.

[Edited on 9-3-2003 by edge]

[Lord Deprav]

Originally posted by edge
It's not a myth. Sorry to say. There are still players from when Ty Cobb played. Hell, was one on Leno that was a black guy. He said he could not beliave someone could beat a armless guy. Also said he called all the baclks nigger nonstop. But hey. Don't beleive someone that played with him. That is your choice. But to many people have said this about him, that knew him, Ty Cobb should be removed if they changed the rules for Pete Rose.

There we no black players in the league when Ty Cobb played. The first black baseball player in the American league where Cobb played his career in Detroit and Philidelphia, was Larry Doby in 1947.

He may have referred to black people with bad slogans. Lots of people did including baseball players during that time period. Someone in your family may have. Does that make you look down on your family as being bad people? But I am not going to go on that subject at all.

Just to throw something else even more interesting into your hate against Cobb...He was the first person inducted into the baseball hall of fame.

Deprav

[Lord Deprav]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Because as much as being a great basball player is nice and all, as i said, there should be SOME minimum level of acceptable behavior to be allowed in the hall. Ty Cobb was in no way someone you would want to point to and have your child emulate.

Is Barry Bonds too? He is compared to Cobbs ignorance all the time.



Would he be today for many things he did back then? Hell yes.

With rules today there could be a tons of ball players who would be looked down on for things they did back then. No comparison. Its like comparing perfect games from David Cone to J Lee Richmond or Montgomery.



Ty Cobb hurt people, on purpose. He seemed to revel in inflicting pain. I don't care if he went after some handicaped individual or not, that would simply be an over the top addition to his lack of decency.

Yah know its funny no one ever gives him credit for the people he helped for years. Being one of the most richest men of his time, he supported most of his teamates along with other men in the league.



Rose is a loser. He had such a relatively simple way out, but he really thought that just becasue he was Pete Rose he could just lie to everyones face and that no one would dare call him on it. His ego has killed him and his legacy.

You said it best. But even if he was a better guy...he still gambled on baseball which results in banishment from the game.




[quote]
Simply being intelligent or being strong or fast or whatever is not something that deserves respect.

What repect I have for his ability to play baseball is melted away for the lack of respect he had for his fellow players and people in general.

Respect is not a right, it's earned. And whatever respect his ability earned, his lack of any character spent and then some.

I am still waiting for anyone to say how he disrespected fellow players...The best I have now is a myth on a mugger who he apparently cut off his face or something and a myth on an armless man. And once again like I said Cobb was a big supporter of baseball and supported teamates and players around the league.

One more final thought...Maybe Cobb didn't get in the Hall for his playing ability, but the fact that he had more money then Davey Crocket. It could have been a political issue. (Not taking anything away from his playing ability...but nobody like his attitude.)

Deprav

[Lord Deprav]

Originally posted by longshot

If an on the field issue was so serious that it results in a player being banned for life, then he would be banned.


Pitchers throw at batters all the time. If someone got hit in the head in the right spot it could kill them.



In a parallel example, using the NHL...

Daryl Hunter cross checked (shit... forgot his name) AFTER he scored the winning goal to eliminate the capitals from the playoffs. He recieved (at that time) the longest suspension in NHL history. I believe 35 games.

McSorely cracked a guy in the skull, meriting a lifetime ban from the NHL.

Pierre Turgeon and his sentenced was reduced to 150,000 dollars and 21 games.
(http://www.hockeydraftcentral.com/1979/79041.html)

And don't even get me started on Marty...He should have never got banned. That whole situation was blown out of porpotion.

Deprav

[edge]

On the field, Cobb taunted opponents as well as teammates, threatening them with his sharpened spikes, his bat or his fists. Away from the field, Cobb was frequently hauled into court for his assaults on fans, hotel porters, even a neighborhood butcher.

http://www.augustachronicle.com/history/cobb.html

Thin-skinned and racist, it was common for Cobb to attack hecklers in the stands, and umpires and players on the field. He blemished his reputation forever when, in 1912, he dove into the stands in New York to silence a fan, kicking and spiking the man. The fan turned out to be a man with no hands. Cobb responded with, "I don’t care if he has no feet as well." For this, American League President Ban Johnson suspended Cobb for a whole 10 days. Johnson should have been banned!

http://sportsjunkie.info/Ty%20Cobb%20&%20Billy%20Martin.htm

Ty Cobb did more then Pete Rose ever did. He assaulted umpires for gods sake. But hey. He can be your role model if you wish. There are tons upon tons of stories about him.

Ty Cobb does not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame if Pete Rose doesn't. Simple. He was a worthless human that could play baseball. Once again we show how fame is more important.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

You have the absolute worst argument and debate style of anyone I've seen. You come off as a complete loon, and even if your argument has merit, I dismiss it because of your presentation.

[Edaarin]

Oh yeah, well at least his avatar isn't the worst final fantasy character EVER.

[Lord Deprav]

Originally posted by edge
On the field, Cobb taunted opponents as well as teammates, threatening them with his sharpened spikes, his bat or his fists. Away from the field, Cobb was frequently hauled into court for his assaults on fans, hotel porters, even a neighborhood butcher.

http://www.augustachronicle.com/history/cobb.html



None of that is evidence. For one I do not even see any reference material. Looks like a page of oppinion.




Thin-skinned and racist, it was common for Cobb to attack hecklers in the stands, and umpires and players on the field. He blemished his reputation forever when, in 1912, he dove into the stands in New York to silence a fan, kicking and spiking the man. The fan turned out to be a man with no hands. Cobb responded with, "I don’t care if he has no feet as well." For this, American League President Ban Johnson suspended Cobb for a whole 10 days. Johnson should have been banned!

http://sportsjunkie.info/Ty%20Cobb%20&%20Billy%20Martin.htm

Ty Cobb did more then Pete Rose ever did. He assaulted umpires for gods sake. But hey. He can be your role model if you wish. There are tons upon tons of stories about him.


Assaulting Umpires...HA!...Did you ever know that in a game in 1917 when Babe Ruth was playing for the Red Sox and pitching walked the first guy and bitched to the umpire. Then proceeded to punch the umpire in the face? And what is even more humorous is the guy who came in after him through a no-hitter (which could be considered by some historians a perfect game except he didn't pitch the full game.)

I am still waiting for you to argue why Joe Jackson Or Buck Weaver should be in the Hall too if they were involved in gambling...(Especially since they weren't banned from the game till after gambling was made illegal.)

Deprav

[Edited on 9-5-2003 by Lord Deprav]

[Edited on 9-5-2003 by Lord Deprav]

[Edited on 9-5-2003 by Lord Deprav]

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by Edaarin
Oh yeah, well at least his avatar isn't the worst final fantasy character EVER.

I've never played Final Fantasy, that is really me, dressed up like my warrior.

[edge]

I never argued about gambling of those players Deprav. Assualting a umpire is worse the gambling so he should be removed by the standards we are holding now. That is a blantant disrespect for the game, as is gambling. So you just showed reason to remove Babe Ruth. Which is silly. So Pete Rose should be allowed into the Hall of Fame.

[edge]

Even if I put reference material you will say it's not true. Since it was so long ago. They made it up. So what is the point? You think for personal reasons and not fair reasons why you don't want Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame. But other wastes of breath can be in there since you like them. Hell, you think punching a umpire is funny and warrants Hall of Fame statis. Give me a fucking break.

[Edited on 9-6-2003 by edge]

[Lord Deprav]

Originally posted by edge
Even if I put reference material you will say it's not true. Since it was so long ago. They made it up. So what is the point? You think for personal reasons and not fair reasons why you don't want Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame. But other wastes of breath can be in there since you like them. Hell, you think punching a umpire is funny and warrants Hall of Fame statis. Give me a fucking break.

[Edited on 9-6-2003 by edge]

Actually, Pete Rose has never directly affected me in any aspect of my life. The only personal thing I got on him is the fact that he broke a very important rule in a sport I love and he should not be allowed back in to it. Umpires have been disrespected for hundreds of years. I personally am an umpire for my city league high schools, and its part of our job to get that bs. Do you not think Roberto Alomar is not going to get in the Hall? Or better yet heres a name from the past...George Brett. He assaulted an umpire...Should we remove him? I have tons of articles in my baseball collection about the weirdest shit players have done through out the ages.

You have lost yourself in your arguement. Pete Rose is just as much as a jerk as Cobb was. Your trying to tell me that Rose should get their for his stats. This I do not disagree with you on. Pete has some thick stats on his shoulders. But the big difference between all players, including Cobb and others, what they have done is not a banishable reason. Pete Rose's gambling was a banishable reason.

I may be repeating myself again, but Pete Rose does have the biggest sub-division dedicated to him in the Hall of Fame. He should be happy that they allowed that. And once again the baseball Hall of Fame is not owned by major league baseball. This means they have their own beliefs. Even if Pete gets pardonned by Buddy Seliq, that doesn't mean that he will be allowed ever in the Hall. After reading more and more about this, the only Hall of Famers that will vote him in are Cincy Red guys like Joe Morgan and Johnny Bench.

Lord Deprav

[Lord Deprav]

Originally posted by edge
I. So you just showed reason to remove Babe Ruth. Which is silly.

Why is that silly? Your comparing your arguement with a marked man and I am comparing your arguement to a man who had the respect and love of all Americans in his time...and would even venture to say today. I do not understand why you would say that is silly. What about Ted Williams or Mickey Mantle? Two of the biggest playboys ever to be in baseball. Ted Williams had 3 wives in a time when divorce was pretty uncommon. Or Mickey Mantle being your New York stud and sleeping with hundreds of women? Should this reflect in Hall of Fame voting? Just because they choose to live their lives like that? Their still within their rules. Should we remove players from the Hall of Fame because the requirement years change over time? Removing a Hall of Famers just does not happen.

Deprav

[edge]

<Your comparing your arguement with a marked man and I am comparing your arguement to a man who had the respect and love of all Americans in his time...>

Pete Rose is loved and respected by the majority of Americans. This has been proven over and over again. He is being held out of the Hall because of ONE man. Guess who that is.

Baseball Hall of Fame is what you did as a Baseball player. Should only be that. Pete Rose should be admitted on his warrants in baseball only. Not his off the field mistakes that the one man that can prevent him from becoming admitted prevents him, even though the majority of the public AND the players think. This is a disgrace upon baseball over a personal vendette.

[Lord Deprav]

He GAMBLED on baseball. He is no longer a part of baseball. What one man wants him to stay out of the Hall? Both of my roomates don't think he should be in. The people who want him in the Hall are people who are bandwagon fans. Is this one man your talking about Bud Seliq? Because if it is, then you have no clue what is going on. Bud Seliq shouldn't even be discussing this issue. He was banned by a baseball commissioner. He has spent time in jail for gambling. What else is there?

Lord Deprav

[Lord Deprav]

Just wanted to throw in finally got around to watching Cobb the other day. I had seen it almost 10 years ago. Most of your arguements are coming from that movie. If yah want to see an interesting movie about baseball watch 8-men out. Oh yeah also I thought it was hilarious that Roger Clemns was the rookie local boy pitcher in the movie Cobb.

Deprav

[Stacey]

No matter what point is argued, most will still say let him in. Yeah, he DID bet on baseball and he should be ashamed for that. Most don't care though. He should be in the hall of fame!!

[Lord Deprav]

Leave it upto a Reds fan.

Deprav

[Stacey]

Yep, you got me!

Stacey