NCAA and paying kids to play Sports

[Jarvan]

I am just curious since I am positive most of you follow sports, including college sports, a lot more then I do.

What is your opinion on the issue of NCAA and not paying, or paying students to play.

I am actually not sure where I stand, frankly, I don't like college sports they way they are now. But I don't know what I would do differently.

Really curious about what people think.

[Latrinsorm]

There ought to be a wall of separation between college and sport, to keep both pure.

[Warriorbird]

Of course they should be paid. They already often are but it's sleazy and shady. They also ought to be able to sign endorsement deals early.

[Keller]

There ought to be a wall of separation between college and sport, to keep both pure.

If you separated college football from the college, who would want to attend any SEC school except Florida or Vanderbilt?

[Gelston]

I think they should be paid, especially since there are NCAA rules that limit how much a student-athlete is allowed to work, even when their sport is not in season. The NCAA makes shit tons of cash on the talents and abilities of these people.

[Jarvan]

There ought to be a wall of separation between college and sport, to keep both pure.

This is almost hard to say, but I think I agree with you. Paying kids to play college sports, will just create a second NFL type thing (like it hasn't already) and recruiting will be even worse then it is now. Keep the sport attached to the college, but separate from the college itself. I am sure the colleges can incorporate a second entity for the sports teams.

I personally also think that all athletes that get college scholarships should have to meet the scholastic requirements of the college as well. I.E. if the college normally requires at least 1400 (may be showing my age here, not sure how SATs are scored now) for admittance, then so should the athletes.

[Gelston]

I personally also think that all athletes that get college scholarships should have to meet the scholastic requirements of the college as well. I.E. if the college normally requires at least 1400 (may be showing my age here, not sure how SATs are scored now) for admittance, then so should the athletes.

They do. They have GPA requirements that must be maintained as well.

You can read about the SEC requirements here- http://cdn.knoxblogs.com/evanseleven/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2013/12/Constitution.pdf?__utma=242789080.1872886908.13952 02506.1395202507.1395202507.1&__utmb=242789080.2.10.1395202507&__utmc=242789080&__utmx=-&__utmz=242789080.1395202507.1.1.utmcsr=google|utmc cn=(organic)|utmcmd=organic|utmctr=(not%20provided )&__utmv=242789080.|27=SubscriberID=NA=1&__utmk=37447075

[Jarvan]

They do. They have GPA requirements that must be maintained as well.

You can read about the SEC requirements here- http://cdn.knoxblogs.com/evanseleven/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2013/12/Constitution.pdf?__utma=242789080.1872886908.13952 02506.1395202507.1395202507.1&__utmb=242789080.2.10.1395202507&__utmc=242789080&__utmx=-&__utmz=242789080.1395202507.1.1.utmcsr=google|utmc cn=(organic)|utmcmd=organic|utmctr=(not%20provided )&__utmv=242789080.|27=SubscriberID=NA=1&__utmk=37447075


LOL, those aren't real. And scholarship athletes don't need to meet the general admittance guidelines. NCAA Guidelines are what.. 820 SAT? Ever hear of anyone making it into Notre Dame with an 820 SAT in general admission? Or a 2.0 GPA? (minimum required by NCAA)

We all know schools have ways to ensure a kid meets eligibility for playing.

They may graduate with a degree... but that doesn't mean they actually learned anything while there.

[Gelston]

LOL, those aren't real. And scholarship athletes don't need to meet the general admittance guidelines. NCAA Guidelines are what.. 820 SAT? Ever hear of anyone making it into Notre Dame with an 820 SAT in general admission? Or a 2.0 GPA? (minimum required by NCAA)

We all know schools have ways to ensure a kid meets eligibility for playing.

They may graduate with a degree... but that doesn't mean they actually learned anything while there.

It changes based on Conference. Notre Dame football is independent, so they set it at what they want, so long as it isn't below the minimum. Also, you are quoting Div II requirements. ND is Div I. Div I is a sliding scale. The lower your HS GPA, the higher your SAT/ACT needs to be. So yeah, if your GPA is 3.55+ on a 4.0 scale, you need to score over 400. If your GPA is 2.0, you need to score a 1010. Again, this is all minimums set by the NCAA. Individual conferences can require higher. You aren't getting a football scholarship to Notre Dame scoring a 400 on the SAT. Especially with so many precious spots allowed for scholarships. They aren't going to want to waste a scholarship on a guy that goes into academic probation.

The NCAA is upping the minimum GPA to 2.3 as well, with a minimum of 2.5 if you are a transfer from a junior college.

On the flip side, I got college for free, didn't take the SAT, and had horrible high school grades. :)

[cwolff]

They should pay them. College Football is professional football except the work force has wage maximums in place. D1 basketball and football can bring in millions if not billions to a University while only 2% of the athletes can actually make it into the NBA or NFL. Manziel is a good example. This coincided with their entry into the SEC but I think it's fair to say that Johnny Football personally accounted for a lot of that money.


The university raised more than $740 million in donations in the past fiscal year, the school announced on Tuesday. The total, documented between Sept. 1, 2012, and Aug. 31, 2013, is a school record and more than $300 million better than any previous 12-month period in the school's history.

The NCAA system is screwed up for the same reason our higher education is screwed up. We basically only have two options. College or no college. Other countries help the youth identify future goals and then prepare them for adult life with greater vocational education, trade schools etc... then they heavily subsidize university for those who've shown aptitude and desire. We just guarantee student loans and give them out freely which has had a big effect on raising tuition costs because there's so much money out there.

I'd guess that sports like baseball and basketball have some better alternatives but for a football player you've got to go to college, typically for 3 years, because the NFL won't let you in the draft until your 3 years out of high school. Basketball has a 1 year requirement so a player who only cares about playing b-ball only has to do 1 semester with passing grades.

I guess my point is that athletes don't have many options. If they have hopes to play ball at the professional level in basketball or especially football they have to attend a university. While at Uni they have a more than full time job. Look at lineman as an example. These guys need to be big so many times they have to eat way more calories a day than they want to. To ensure that they get their weight up they often have to eat meals with the coaches to ensure that they are following the prescribed diet and packing on the lbs. Then they need to attend class, lift weights and practice. For them, playing football in college is like having two jobs.

[Latrinsorm]

You bring up a good point in terms of alternatives Cwolff, but I think you underestimate the alternatives for basketball players, it's almost as international a sport as soccer. It's no picnic for an 18 year old to live in Greece (or wherever) for a year, but the options are at least out there. The continued development of the NBDL (age limit 18) is becoming a major possibility as well. American football has no credible alternatives, and you have to wonder why. The NFL is notoriously resistant to change, but you'd think they'd want more control over player development, not to mention a cut of the enormous profits college football enjoys...

...unless they're already getting one.
This is almost hard to say, but I think I agree with you.Good. Use your aggressive feelings. Let the hate flow through you. Give yourself to the Dark Side.

[Buckwheet]

I don't know about getting paid in the traditional sense, but there certainly needs to be insurance policies based on player grading scales taken out in case their careers are ended due to injury or death while doing a school function. DJ Fluker getting in trouble for a booster paying for a three million dollar policy should be something the school/program paid for in the first place.

[Jarvan]

I don't know about getting paid in the traditional sense, but there certainly needs to be insurance policies based on player grading scales taken out in case their careers are ended due to injury or death while doing a school function. DJ Fluker getting in trouble for a booster paying for a three million dollar policy should be something the school/program paid for in the first place.

Just watched a Documentary on it.

A college kid was hurt bad, and is basically now brain damaged. His family got nada. Because he was a student participating in after school activities. How absurd is that.

[Buckwheet]

Just watched a Documentary on it.

A college kid was hurt bad, and is basically now brain damaged. His family got nada. Because he was a student participating in after school activities. How absurd is that.

Eric Legrand is another good example.



“What we did this week was work very closely with the NCAA to make sure we were having a very clear understanding of the rules as they relate to fundraising situations like this,'' said Pernetti.

Because the first thing that you really want to be concerned with is raising money to assist a kid who had their career ended by playing for you and you could be in violation of bullshit NCAA rules. Kid should have had a 3 million dollar policy on him if not more and it shouldn't even be questioned.

Oh and this is all on top of their current liability like policy. Hey you were going to be that NFL player who made millions but instead you get this disability:

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/13-14%2BCat%2BBenefit%2BSummary.pdf

Total Disability Benefit – $300 each month, not to exceed twelve (12) months, and $2,000 each month thereafter during which the Insured Person remains Totally Disabled. The $2,000 monthly Total Disability benefit amount will be increased by 4% after the $2,000 benefit has been paid for twelve (12) consecutive months and after each subsequent twelve (12) consecutive month period while the Insured Person remains Totally Disabled.

Death Benefit
The Policy will pay $25,000 if an Insured Person dies as a result of a Covered Accident or sustains injury due to a Covered Accident which, independent of all other causes, results directly in the death of the Insured Person within twelve (12) months following the date of such injury.

Again, ridiculous. I will use my team as an example. Alabama makes ~50 million a year of able to be tracked profits. This doesn't include things like general merchandise purchases that can't be tracked to just football. I think they could afford to cover their players and also pitch in to a general liability fund for the whole school's athletes.

The should carry something additional that factors in player performance and potential endorsement deals or something.

[Jarvan]

I think the most insane stuff is the fact that companies, like EA, can now use a college kid's likeness in a product. And they don't have to pay them anything. Apparently they used some guy's likeness from his college days YEARS after he graduated. What kind of bullshit is that?

[Buckwheet]

I think the most insane stuff is the fact that companies, like EA, can now use a college kid's likeness in a product. And they don't have to pay them anything. Apparently they used some guy's likeness from his college days YEARS after he graduated. What kind of bullshit is that?

That was recently ruled against I believe and EA is no longer making the games.

[Gelston]

EA is no longer making NCAA games.

[cwolff]

I can't wait to see how this plays out.


In a potentially game-changing moment for college athletics, the Chicago district of the National Labor Relations Board ruled on Wednesday that Northwestern football players qualify as employees of the university and can unionize.

NLRB regional director Peter Sung Ohr cited the players' time commitment to their sport and the fact their scholarships were tied directly to their performance as reasons for granting them union rights.

Ohr wrote in his ruling that the players "fall squarely within the [National Labor Relations] Act's broad definition of 'employee' when one considers the common law definition of 'employee.'"

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10677763/northwestern-wildcats-football-players-win-bid-unionize

[Latrinsorm]

Solidarity forever!
Solidarity forever!
Solidarity forever!
For the union makes us strong!

[cwolff]

Solidarity forever!
Solidarity forever!
Solidarity forever!
For the union makes us strong!

I wonder how they would organize. The employees will only have up to 5 years of employment. Can today's crop of college athletes vote in a way that binds future players?

[Buckwheet]

NCAA should cease to exist then each school will create basically a minor league that part of your compensation package will be free tuition to the university that ownd the stadium.

[Anebriated]

I wonder how they would organize. The employees will only have up to 5 years of employment. Can today's crop of college athletes vote in a way that binds future players?

All they really need to do with this attempt to unionize is set a precedent. Once that can of worms has been opened then the future crop can work on getting a better deal.

[irfuji]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20140327/ncaa-athletes-union-ruling-northwestern/?eref=sihp

actually a decent article.

At the end of the day I think if you allow athletes a full ride scholarship if they get hurt, permanent medical for injuries sustained on the field, and allow them to sign endorsement deals most of this goes away.

[Gelston]

I can agree with that. If they are too injured (due to on field injury) to return to <insert sport> they should be able to keep their scholarship so long as they keep their grades up. It ought to turn into an academic scholarship. Most colleges make enough sports revenue to cover this.

[AnticorRifling]

They know the risks, they're playing for a chance for a big pay day. If you don't think the risk is worth it don't play.

[Latrinsorm]

They know the risks, they're playing for a chance for a big pay day. If you don't think the risk is worth it don't play.The administrators know the risks too. If they don't think the risk of paying for a crippled student-athlete is worth it, don't offer sport scholarships.

[Gelston]

The administrators know the risks too. If they don't think the risk of paying for a crippled student-athlete is worth it, don't offer sport scholarships.

Yep. The same way the Military pays kids disability and gives them the full GI Bill if they are medically discharged from boot.

[irfuji]

Not sure how to respond to that...

I don't know of any other job (and yes, playing sports in college is a job) that prohibits providing accurate market level compensation like collegiate sports does.

The vast majority of players will never turn pro. And while the splashy super star who will eventually go on to make millions gets the attention and headlines. The majority of scholarship players who make the game possible will leave with nothing but their education. And while that is valuable, it is so far below market value of even a low to mid tier D1 athlete it's not even funny (and i'm primarily focusing on football and basketball here).

If they suffer a career ending injury (or one that even simply makes them replaceable) they lose their scholarship. Get ZERO medical assistance and are thrown away like a used paper towel. We aren't even talking about the life altering injuries yet.

According to Forbes, in 2010, the University of Texas (considered the most valuable team in college football) earned a profit of $71M on earnings of $96M. They launched a television network with ESPN and IMG which will pay the university $15M per year for the next 20 years. That works out to a profit margin of 74%.

On the University of Texas website, they list the average non-resident cost of tuition, room and board, books, transportation and misc expenses to be about $53k for the ENTIRE 4 years. So to provide a full 4 year scholarship for EVERY single player (60) that actually makes the team would be about $3.18M. About 5% of the profit the university made in ONE year. And yes, I know I am taking one of the most successful programs in history here, but I'm also not advocating for players to be paid, just allows them to get the education that was dangled in front of them and for the injuries sustained while making the university money to be paid for.

Many top colleges use the football and basketball programs to fund others that either break even or even lose money. So I completely understand that dividing the profit up isn't feasible. But if all schools paid in a % of their profits to go towards full scholarships and medical expenses for injuries related to the game. I fail to see how that is unrealistic.

[Anebriated]

I dont think players should get a lot while they are in school. Scholarship players should get a base $500 a month stipend since they are unable to legally get jobs while playing NCAA sports. They should also have about $1500 a month placed into a trust fund or something that will pay out after they have graduated(comes out to working 40 hours a week @ $12.5/hr). They should also be able to add to their trust fund if they become starters, if their jersey sells well or if the team makes a national championship or any number of other factors along those lines. In the end it wont be too much but the better football schools will end up playing their scholarship players more than the bottom of the barrel teams and it would compensate the star players a little better than it would the guys who never make it to the NFL but everyone who goes under scholarship would get a cut of the proceeds.

Just an idea.

[Jarvan]

I dont think players should get a lot while they are in school. Scholarship players should get a base $500 a month stipend since they are unable to legally get jobs while playing NCAA sports. They should also have about $1500 a month placed into a trust fund or something that will pay out after they have graduated(comes out to working 40 hours a week @ $12.5/hr). They should also be able to add to their trust fund if they become starters, if their jersey sells well or if the team makes a national championship or any number of other factors along those lines. In the end it wont be too much but the better football schools will end up playing their scholarship players more than the bottom of the barrel teams and it would compensate the star players a little better than it would the guys who never make it to the NFL but everyone who goes under scholarship would get a cut of the proceeds.

Just an idea.

The bolded part is the stupidest thing about the whole NCAA. Oh, you got a full scholarship to play football... sorry, you can't work at McDonald's. (not that they have time to anyway, football is a full time job, and school is their part time job).

I don't think college players should be getting paid million dollar a year contracts, that's what pros are for. I do think they should get something along with the scholarship. Also, the fact that basically you have to play college ball to play pro ball is really stupid. Maybe there is walkons for Basketball and football like baseball, but how often do they happen?

[Allereli]

If you really believe the bullshit that these kids are getting an education, read this story.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2008175-north-carolina-player-reportedly-received-an-a-for-this-short-paper

[DaCapn]

Had this in my back pocket. Thought you guys might find it interesting.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2012-05-14/ncaa-college-athletics-finances-database/54955804/1