tips / techniques / cmans for open archer ranger

[Briem]

Bypassing the obvious losses I'm receiving from a neglect of utilizing truly 608 and 617. What are some good tips / techniques for an open archer ranger? I'm planning on going GoS and am new to the bow. Thanks to the guide provided on this link I've attempted to utilize the information as best as possible. stats and skills are as such.

*decided to go with sweep and combat movement thus far sweep is at 2 currently*

Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 98 (24) ... 98 (24)
Constitution (CON): 64 (7) ... 64 (7)
Dexterity (DEX): 91 (30) ... 91 (30)
Agility (AGI): 89 (24) ... 89 (24)
Discipline (DIS): 63 (1) ... 63 (1)
Aura (AUR): 64 (12) ... 64 (12)
Logic (LOG): 54 (2) ... 54 (2)
Intuition (INT): 66 (8) ... 66 (8)
Wisdom (WIS): 71 (10) ... 71 (10)
Influence (INF): 44 (-3) ... 44 (-3)

Armor Use..........................| 66 14
Combat Maneuvers...................| 62 13
Ranged Weapons.....................| 114 28
Ambush.............................| 50 10
Physical Fitness...................| 66 14
Dodging............................| 62 13
Harness Power......................| 62 13
Survival...........................| 62 13
Perception.........................| 108 26
First Aid..........................| 62 13

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 4

Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 13

Currently lvl 13

ideas appreciated and personal insight also appreciated!

[DaCapn]

If you haven't looked at the guide, "The Art of the Bow," you should (here or KP article version which is not managed by the original author, I think). You should especially look at the ranged AS formula carefully and the factors in aiming. You're wasting some TPs.

I don't know about rangers really but I'm sure you're over-training in CM. Sweep sucks in my opinion. Dirtkick is probably one of the better offensive CMs in the game since it's stance independent (along with being one of the cheapest to train and use). You'd probably be best served by using spells like 610 to disable.

[Briem]

you were correct on looking over my skills based on what effects my AS and DS and I did adjust accordingly, dropped CM for now and siphoned those points from CM into Ambush. will probably bring cms in a little later just because I like CMs but will probably take your advice on dirtkick as well. Appreciate the help and insight. 610 is a savior, I try to use that as much as possible.

[BriarFox]

2x ranged and perception, 1x ambush, and make extensive use of 607 and 610. Also, don't really bother aiming yet. Start that when you hit the high teens, and then only aim for the legs. Once they're prone, aim for the head or neck. You'll find that the smaller targets are much harder to hit, but that if they're prone, they become much easier.

[Rhovan]

I'd suggest only going to 103 in spirituals until you've picked up 640 in the ranger base. The training in ambush also isn't needed if you are hunting from the open. It only starts boosting your attack after 40 ranks, so put those points elsewhere for now.

Also, which armor are you aiming to be in? Brigandine is a popular choice, but you need 30 ranks to get there. I'd suggest doubling armor use to get it.

[blanks]

I'm also an open archer rogue... So is 2x in ambush a complete waste? Should I drop it down to 1x or negate it completely? I

[Rhovan]

"The Art of the Bow" is a great read and it'll explain it all. Ambushing doesn't help your aim when from the open, but it does help boost your AS. This boost only comes as +1 AS every four ranks beyond 40 ranks. So until you're around 20 trainings, it is just a waste of points. I'd say as an open archer rogue, don't put any points into ambush until around 25, then put all your extra tp's in it to get it to 2x.

[Briem]

excellent advice all, transitioned my armor so I can wear brig next level, adjusted ambush to 1x and will start zapping legs! All the insight is greatly appreciated folks!

Not sure what armor I'd plan to use, is full plate realistic or is that simply unfeasible?

[DaCapn]

excellent advice all, transitioned my armor so I can wear brig next level, adjusted ambush to 1x and will start zapping legs! All the insight is greatly appreciated folks!

Not sure what armor I'd plan to use, is full plate realistic or is that simply unfeasible?

Explain what you think you're getting from ambush training.

[Briem]

I have the extra points at this time, following the guide and advice from Briarfox. only doing the single, so when I hit 25 it's not too much of a jump from 1x to 2x versus 0x to 2x.

Per the guide:

"7. Ranged AS and DS
Ranged AS and DS are the meat and potatoes of archery. See below, but if that information is too arcane, the basics are these: For AS, train ranged skill, ambush and perception (each to 2x). For DS, train ranged skill, ambush, perception (diminishing returns after 2x), and dodge. Armor and bow enchant add directly to DS, just as bow and arrow enchants (up to 10x combined) add to AS.

One of the advantages of ranged weapons is that it's so easy to get a 10x flaring weapon. One only needs a 5x bow and master-fletched, e-bladed arrows to have a +50 weapon with flares of your (mage's) choice. A 6x bow with plain e-bladed arrows is even simpler and doesn't require one to fletch (see below). This bonus follows the same rules as other enchanted weapons, which is bonus/2 (rounded down) determines the level at which you can use the enchant (Ex: +50/2 = level 25). You can hold a 5x bow and 5x arrows at level 13, however, and each level you gain, your AS will increase to the total allowed bonus.

Sample Open Archer Ranger:

2x Ranged
2x Perception
1x Dodge
1x-2x Ambush"

*following the guide heavily and am aware the guide is not god and not the end all be all for how to be an archer, but it thus far has been very handy and provides a solid model I enjoy working with thus far*

Albeit this may not reflect someone at my level, but instead of getting used to sinking my TP in something else and having to make the mental adjustment at 25 for the TP transition *me personally* it is easier to put the TP into the single 1x ambush.

[DaCapn]

If you haven't looked at the guide, "The Art of the Bow," you should (here or KP article version which is not managed by the original author, I think). You should especially look at the ranged AS formula carefully and the factors in aiming. You're wasting some TPs.


"The Art of the Bow" is a great read and it'll explain it all. Ambushing doesn't help your aim when from the open, but it does help boost your AS. This boost only comes as +1 AS every four ranks beyond 40 ranks. So until you're around 20 trainings, it is just a waste of points. I'd say as an open archer rogue, don't put any points into ambush until around 25, then put all your extra tp's in it to get it to 2x.

When people talk about something being a waste of TPs they usually mean that something doesn't give you a good enough return. In this case, you're actually getting no return at all.

[Briem]

Understood, I guess I'm just a little stuck on, sitting on the points and getting no returns and having to go from 0 to 40 right away, or slowly putting points into ambush and still getting no returns but instead of going from 0 to 40 only having to go from 20-40. I could sink the points in armor which would be nice in the mean time, but then I'm just playing catch up. I also may not be understanding correctly the system, I'm not exactly the brightest bulb by any means. I'm definitely weighing my options though, perhaps some MIU in exchange for those TP or armor use

[DaCapn]

Understood, I guess I'm just a little stuck on, sitting on the points and getting no returns and having to go from 0 to 40 right away, or slowly putting points into ambush and still getting no returns but instead of going from 0 to 40 only having to go from 20-40. I could sink the points in armor which would be nice in the mean time, but then I'm just playing catch up. I also may not be understanding correctly the system, I'm not exactly the brightest bulb by any means. I'm definitely weighing my options though, perhaps some MIU in exchange for those TP or armor use

Say at level 42 you take ambush at full 1x cost (44 ranks). You get +1 AS for a total of 132/132 PTP/MTP. Or 396/396 if you're 2x at level 20 for 44 ranks. If you're 1x ambush at cap, you're looking at a total of 15 AS.

[Briem]

I think I'm getting it now, while numbers as a whole totally blow my mind (criminal justice major...math = what?) I think I'm getting the understanding. Time to do some adjustments and sit on some TP for a little bit. Thanks for hanging in there with me.

[radeek]

I know you guys out there are TP fanatics, but I've always maxed ambush since it was made so Brawling wasn't needed for your DS as an archer. I am now post cap and I have never once regretted the added AS that fully doubling in Ambush gave me. There are areas I would prefer to be stronger in, like lores, but I also have a lot of MIU and Arcane symbols, just because I like being able to use magical items. I know I don't have the highest ranged AS in the game, but I don't have to. I can kill most anything that walks in front of me, and that's enough for me. I don't bury myself in enhancives (in fact, I have none). Call me old school, but GS is a game where everyone shouldn't be cut out of a cookie cutter.

[BriarFox]

202 ranks of ambush at cap gives you +41 AS (rounded up from 40.5), which is awesome, but that's with ambush maxed at cap. Before that, a lot of people don't see ambush as worth the cost. I was always a "2x-or-nothing" person.

[droit]

I for one think 1x ambush is worth it at cap, maybe before. Rangers don't have any other way to increase AS (besides enhancives/650) like wspec, etc. I found that the extra 15 AS pushed me over some critical thresholds, like being able to one-shot grimswarm in plate. The more you can get, the better, of course, but if 1x is all you can afford, I say go for it.