Fucking Druggies!

[Nieninque]

Me and my little sister who is 13 went into town for a pizza and were at the cash point getting some money out when this fucking sorry excuse for a man came up and asked for some money.
I told him we didnt have any money for him and can he go away and the twat punched me around the head. My little sister was really scared - and I have to say I was too - and he told me to give him some money and he would leave us alone. I told him ok and then when I had my money out of the machine just ran with my sister and called the police on my mobile.
His disgusting bitch-features slag of a girlfriend then threatened us and tried to hit my 13 year-old sister (they both must have been around 30 fucking drug induced years old) but we backed off big style.
He ran after us but his drug-trashed wasted body couldnt keep up with us, and the police managed to get there really quick and arrest them before they got too far away.

Fucking druggies. They should shoot the fucking lot of them

That sucks royally, who the fuck 30 year old is going to do that stupid fucking shit to a 13 year old GIRL? :wtf: Did you at least get a concise positive ID on them?

[Nieninque]

Oh yeah. We was in the pollice car and went after them with the police and pointed them out.
They had a 2 year old baby with them at the time.
They both got arrested.
Hopefully the baby will be taken away from them and sent to live with un-druggie foster parents who can give him/her something to live for.

The woman was threatening my sister and I was like "WTF? She is 13" and she was shouting "Yeah well I got a 2 year old in the pushchair" so I told her she needed to go look after it.

That went down well.

Some people dont deserve kids.

[DeV]

Damn.. that is pretty fucked. Hope they rot in jail.

[Miss X]

That is awful hon, I hope your sister is ok.

Its sad that society allows some people to get into that situation, there should be a better support network for parents who can't cope or are on drugs. I always ask myself what has driven those people to that state. They may have the potential to be good parents given the right support. :)

[Shari]

People like that not only don't deserve children, they don't even deserve to live.

Reading what happened to you infuriates me to the point of wanting to put my fist into a wall. I think if someone threatened my 16 year old sister I'd likely claw their eyes out, even if I was the one more badly injured in the end.

[Nieninque]

I was just screaming at her to go into the shop and get out of the way. I was more scared for her than I was for me.
I wish I coulda been Snowy just then

:616 druggie:
:616 druggie's g/f:
:hold baby:
:hold sister:
: Symbol of return:

[Edited on 16-9-04 by Nieninque]

[Miss X]

Originally posted by Jesae
People like that not only don't deserve children, they don't even deserve to live.

I'm kind of hoping you are joking. Lot's of people get into situations where their lives spiral out of control and they do bad things. It doesn't mean they don't deserve to live. What they deserve is the help and support to get their lives back on track. Gotta have a little faith in humanity, we all have the ability to help people in those situations. :)

[Nieninque]

They made a choice to take drugs
They made a choice to attack me and my kid sister
They made a choice to attempt to rob me

They may, if they are really unlucky, get some slap on the wrist by the court.
They may, get some fluffy help which they wont follow through, wasting time effort and money, instead making the choice to go back to their disgusting druggie way of life, probably assaulting and scaring other children along the way, whilst my little sister is now scared to go out of the house now in case she bumps into these wankers again.

They need something all right.
Bastards.
They are not victims, they are making bad choices.

[MPSorc]

stories like that which make me glad i do the job i do. Im sorry for the situation you had to go through, but glad the police worked with you and caught the bastards.

[djbrianc]

jesus, you people have no fucking clue. you really dont.

not to say that what happened wasnt shitty, because it was, and that the people dont deserve to go to jail, they do, but hopefully wherever you are has some sort of prop 36ish type deal, or some program where instead of incarceration they can go into a program and get some help. youd be surprised if you knew some of the people you might look up to, admire, watch in movies/tv, or listen to, how they have been in that same position and worse, but you dont say that they dont deserve to live do you?

[Edited on 9-16-2004 by djbrianc]

[Nieninque]

In what way?

[HarmNone]

I'm glad to hear you and your sister weren't injured, hon. Something like that is scary as hell! Thankfully, the police responded quickly.

HarmNone

[Nieninque]

They were great.
They were there in about 2 minutes flat

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by djbrianc
jesus, you people have no fucking clue. you really dont.

not to say that what happened wasnt shitty, because it was, and that the people dont deserve to go to jail, they do, but hopefully wherever you are has some sort of prop 36ish type deal, or some program where instead of incarceration they can go into a program and get some help. youd be surprised if you knew some of the people you might look up to, admire, watch in movies/tv, or listen to, how they have been in that same position and worse, but you dont say that they dont deserve to live do you?

[Edited on 9-16-2004 by djbrianc]

I dont believe adults that assault and rob kids deserve much by the way of admiration or sympathy.

[djbrianc]

i was speaking of past tense. people that HAVE been in those situations

[Miss X]

I'm not saying people are not accountable for the things they do, I'm just saying that no one is beyond help. I feel so sad when I hear stories of people who have had everyone give up on them. Perhaps I have too much faith in humanity, I just like everyone to be given a second chance.

[HarmNone]

I agree that everyone deserves a second chance. Bad things happen to good people. However, if these two would leave their baby alone in the car while they go to assault young children, I'm of the opinion that they've probably travelled far enough down the road to depravity that this is not thier SECOND chance. Too often, these types are beyond any help we might try to give them. :(

HarmNone

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by HarmNone
I agree that everyone deserves a second chance. Bad things happen to good people. However, if these two would leave their baby alone in the car while they go to assault young children, I'm of the opinion that they've probably travelled far enough down the road to depravity that this is not thier SECOND chance. Too often, these types are beyond any help we might try to give them. :(

HarmNone

They left the baby in the street to come after us.
They were on foot

[Miss X]

I can't believe that anyone is totally beyond help. Hopefully, as a nurse I will have the chance to help people like that, who clearly need something more than they are getting.

[HarmNone]

Ish. That's even worse! A child that young has no business being left alone on the bloody street!

HarmNone thinks these two may be beyond help, or hope

[Chadj]

Addiction is a disease (not literally, but try to think of it as that). After one is initially addicted to something (something heavy, like crack), then oft times, they will do anything for more, and it is VERY hard to resist the urge. It's not like they don't deserve to live, as was said, just because they are inflicted with a mental and physical addiction from a poor choice.. Which now has them with cravings and urges that they are not mentally strong enough to control. This causes them to do very irrational, and illogical things that they may (and most likely) would not have done had they not had that handicap. Few people are beyond help; I am not going to say that no one is beyond help, but really, without knowing more about the people, you can't possibly discern whether they are beyond help or not. However, it is obvious, that they DO need help, and do not deserve having a child.

Not defending them or anything in the least, just giving my view on their circumstance.

Also, you should have kicked the guy in the nuts and THEN called the cops.. get a little personal satisfaction out of it all.

[Edited on 9-16-2004 by Chadj]

[Nieninque]

Addiction is a choice
If you choose not to take it, you wont get addicted to it.
It isnt a disease, it isnt an illness. It's a choice. And on making that choice, they take the consequences. I hope they rot in hell.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Chadj
Addiction is a disease .... It's not like they don't deserve to live, as was said, just because they are inflicted with a mental and physical addiction from a poor choice...This causes them to do very irrational, and illogical things that they may (and most likely) would not have done had they not had that handicap. Few people are beyond help...However, it is obvious, that they DO need help... just giving my view on their circumstance.


Originally posted by Chadj
I have been doing a little bit of selling of illegal substances





[Edited on 16-9-04 by Nieninque]

[Ilvane]

Not to say that you don't have a reason to be angry at the people that attacked you and your sister, but addiction is a disease..It's not an excuse for what they did, but we certainly do put lots of drug addicts into jail when in reality rehab would do them better than the criminal system.

-A

[Latrinsorm]

Picking on girls isn't cool, druggie or otherwise. (Yes Bob, I'm being sexist.)

That being said, Miss X is so very right.

[Chadj]

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by Chadj
Addiction is a disease .... It's not like they don't deserve to live, as was said, just because they are inflicted with a mental and physical addiction from a poor choice...This causes them to do very irrational, and illogical things that they may (and most likely) would not have done had they not had that handicap. Few people are beyond help...However, it is obvious, that they DO need help... just giving my view on their circumstance.


Originally posted by Chadj
I have been doing a little bit of selling of illegal substances





[Edited on 16-9-04 by Nieninque]

This proves nothing. Yuppers. I smoke pot. OH NOEZ I MUST BE A 36 YEAR OLD WITH A KID BEATING ON PEOPLE. Oh, wait, no, I'm not.

Pot is a very light drug in comparison, and I know that my dependance on it is nearly non-existant due to the fact that before 2 days ago, I gave it up for 3 weeks without a second thought. Regardless, yes, I smoke pot. And again, you made no point.

I'm not saying what happened to you wasn't horrible, but you are wrong. ADDICTION is not a choice. The choice is doing the drugs. Addiction is a physical and mental handicap. Both of my parents were addicts. My mother still struggles with it.. my father gave up after 5 years of trying to stay clean. I know people addicted to acid, crack, and coke. These people are desperate people when they start craving. All of the ones I know, would not go as far as the the man and woman did. But these friends of mine are young, and have not had the addiction long. Who is to say it won't grow to be more powerful? Regardless, no one says "I want to smoke crack so I can be addicted, spend all my money, try to hit little girls, and get arrested.". No, they say "I want to smoke crack so that I can forget my problems/be cool/be happy/rid myself of boredom." Personally, I think anyone who gets into things that are overwhelmingly addictive already have a mental weakness to allow themselves into it (assuming they know the consequences.). However, the point stands from my original post:

Addiction is like a disease (I know not literally, but just think of it that way). It is a mental and physical dependance upon a substance. Addiction will effect mind and body when cravings are not satisfied; and occassionally cravings get insane.

As an example, I want you to find me one person who is.. say.. quitting smoking and is not really anal in their mood as they do. That is due to the physical dependance upon it (as smoking isn't as much a mental dependance). Their body craves it, and it reacts in such a way when it does not get it. These two people are deep cases, who need serious help, and are obviously fucked in the head.

Also, you STILL should have kicked him in the nuts.

Edited because I misspelt something :(

[Edited on 9-16-2004 by Chadj]

[Myshel]

I"m not going to try and come down on you for dealing a little pot and yes its a light end drug.... but most addicts start somewhere. As I have stated in these boards before NO ONE wants to be an addict, its an insidious desease that starts with something innoculous and becomes something else. So next time you get high, and your defenses are down, and someone offers you something else you won't know until its to late that your addicted.

[Chelle]

Originally posted by Nieninque
Addiction is a choice
If you choose not to take it, you wont get addicted to it.

I agree with that 100%. By now people KNOW before they start that they could possibly become addicted, yet they do it anyway. It's not like its a new concept.

My dad was a drug addict for quite a long time. After many years of hell, and being in and out of jail. He finally got help and got clean, and is still clean. He accepts full responsibility for it. He says if he hadn't started it, and been a stubborn SOB then he wouldn't have wasted so much of his life. He isn't like boo hoo woe is me I have a disease.

[Chelle]

I know of a few people who stopped smoking COLD TURKEY and had no adverse affects. I also know of a woman who went to get hypnotized to quit smoking. Never touched a cigarette again, with no adverse affects. Some people are able to do that, some people are too weak to do that. If you really want to stop smoking bad enough, then you will.

[Staceyrain]

H istorically, 10% of any population in history has addiction problems, and most 1st world countries have ways of dealing with it, USA doesn't. I live in an urban enviroment, and believe me, I am armed. I feel pity for those who are screwed up, but none whatsoever for idiots who attack me.

Just a hint of advice, a legal kubaton and pepper spray will help you get away next time, and I am glad you got away without major harm this time.

[Jazuela]

Yes, addiction is considered a disease these days. No, addiction is not a choice. And no, *choosing* to try a drug will not necessarily make you an addict.

I snorted coke in college, and never became addicted to it. After several thousand dollars and many days and nights of stupidity, it occurred to me one day that no matter how much I snorted, there'd never be enough. So I stopped. All by myself, without even mentioning my "desire to stop" to anyone.

I didn't go through any program, didn't get support from anyone, nuttin. I just came to the conclusion that it was a stupid thing to waste my money on and stopped wasting my money on it.

As for what happened to Nienique (sorry if I didn't spell that right!) - no excuses. People with OTHER diseases go to doctors to get treatment. Why do we pass off drug addiction as justification *or even explanation* on why drug addicts do stuff like that?

You don't see someone with a raging pneumonia infection showing up at work, coughing all over her co-workers and saying "Oh - I'm diseased, that's why I'm like this - don't pay any attention to these germs - I'm just here to do my job."

You don't see people with spina bifida rolling over pedestrians from their wheelchairs and saying "Oh I have spina bifida and you were in my way - so sorry!"

You don't see people with OTHER diseases doing that kinda shit - addicts can NOT use their addictions to justify their behavior. They can damned well go to the doctor like every other diseased person in the country and get treatment.

I hope they rot in jail and that kid is sent to a decent home.

[Chadj]

Originally posted by Chelle

Originally posted by Nieninque
Addiction is a choice
If you choose not to take it, you wont get addicted to it.

I agree with that 100%. By now people KNOW before they start that they could possibly become addicted, yet they do it anyway. It's not like its a new concept.

My dad was a drug addict for quite a long time. After many years of hell, and being in and out of jail. He finally got help and got clean, and is still clean. He accepts full responsibility for it. He says if he hadn't started it, and been a stubborn SOB then he wouldn't have wasted so much of his life. He isn't like boo hoo woe is me I have a disease.

No one said anything about "boo hoo woe is me I have a disease".
A) READ.
B) After you have read, double check to see where I say "Not literally, but think of it that way".
C) If one is addicted to drugs, then they will oft times deny that they are addicted. This is called denial.

I have had a fair amount of addicts in my life, I know what it is, I know many of the effects, and I know that it's their own fault for becoming addicted. However, lets say you are driving a car, and fuck up at a four way stop. You get your ass handed to you by a transport truck, and you are now in the hospital. It was your own fault for driving in the first place, and your fault for fucking up at that four way, but just because you made a mistake, doesn't mean you are worthless. It means you get help, you get on your feet, and you are more careful. While this comparison is poor, it does do well in the fact that: No one does drugs thinking "I wanna get addicted", just as no one drives a car thinking "I wanna get in a huge car accident.". It's a well known fact that drugs are addictive, and it's also a well known fact that driving can be dangerous. These people who are addicted need serious help. I believe I heard somewhere (no idea from where, and I can't back this up), that generally, a weakness and susceptibility to addiction can be inherited through genes; That if your parents were alcoholics, you may be susceptible to it as well. Also, (this part I CAN back up), teenagers are fucking stupid. We think we are invincible, and every person has fucked up as a teenager in some way. A lot of times, drugs while people are in their teens, and grow with them.. Because they want to be cool/get away from life/rid themselves from boredom.

Again, I'm not saying "OH NOEZ THEY HAVE A DISEASE IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT THAT THEY ATTACKED YOU". It is their fault. Completely. They deserve to go to jail for it. But they also deserve help.

And a good swift kick to the balls. :heart:

[Chadj]

<<After several thousand dollars and many days and nights of stupidity, it occurred to me one day that no matter how much I snorted, there'd never be enough. >>

For this, you get kudos. Coke is a highly addictive drug, and not many people can do that. The feeling of addiction, is that there never is enough.. but addicts can't make that feeling go away. It stays with them, foremost in their mind. That is the reason crack addicts may leave home for weeks at a time;(This is from my own life, however, not me) they go out to get high, thinking "just a little bit,". Then they get high.. and think "A little bit more.. I wanna get a heavier high.". And this continues on and on untill, normally, they run out of money.

<<People with OTHER diseases go to doctors to get treatment. Why do we pass off drug addiction as justification *or even explanation* on why drug addicts do stuff like that? >>

Simple. Denial. Addicts generally believe there is nothing wrong with them, they are perfectly fine, they don't need help. A popular response when asked about their addiction, "I'm not addicted. I can handle the cravings no problem."

<<You don't see someone with a raging pneumonia infection showing up at work, coughing all over her co-workers and saying "Oh - I'm diseased, that's why I'm like this - don't pay any attention to these germs - I'm just here to do my job." >>

Pneumonia= feels bad
Drugs = Feels good.
When you do drugs, you feel good. Couple that with the point on denial. There's why they don't seek help.

[Edited on 9-16-2004 by Chadj]

[xtc]

What happen to you was shitty. I would defend my family with my life if they were attacked. Especially a 16 year old girl. The people who attacked you need to be held responsible for their actions. Your anger is understandable I would be too in the same situation.

That said addiction is a disease. The people who attacked you have a miserable existence. I can understand you not caring at the moment. However all human life has value no matter how low it has fallen.

"Over a decade ago, the American Medical Association declared drug abuse our nation’s most pervasive health problem. This AMA statement came in recognition of the immense medical, social and economic costs of the abuse of alcohol, tobacco and illicit drugs, which cumulatively impact more Americans than any other pathogen. The AMA also urged that physicians and society recognize addiction as a progressive disease which should be confronted with scientifically-based preventive, diagnostic and treatment approaches. "

http://www.sfms.org/sfm/sfm1199h.htm

[Bobmuhthol]

<<but addiction is a disease>>

No, it's not. You and Chadj need to know what you're talking about. Addiction is entirely will power. If you want to stop being addicted to something, you can stop doing it. What you're talking about is valid for physical dependence. Other than that, addiction is not a disease, so stop being a pussy.

[Chadj]

Dear Bobmuhthol,

Read the post above yours, and stop being stupid. Try to know wtf you are talking about before you say anything.

Love,
Chadj

[GSLeloo]

Yeah but you can be addicted to anything. You can be addicted to food and if you eat yourself to death whose fault is it but your own? If those two had killed her tonight (yes a far stretch) then addiction is no excuse. You make your own choices from the path that led them here to the choice they made last night. I don't think they deserve any sort of lenient punishment because disease or not, they made the choices that got them where they were, they put their child at risk, and they put her and her sister at risk.

[Bobmuhthol]

The post above mine is wrong. It's not a disease.

[Chadj]

Also, due to the fact that I was not sure whether it was officially a disease or not, I did not claim that it was.

I believe what I said was: Addiction is like a disease (I know not literally, but just think of it that way).

[Edited on 9-16-2004 by Chadj]

[Bobmuhthol]

I'm not going to type it all out again.

(19:29:29) BardishMaster: Also, you lose, as I never stated it was a disease. You made that quote up.
(19:29:31) BardishMaster: I stated,
(19:29:33) BardishMaster: Multiple times,
(19:29:34) BardishMaster: Addiction is like a disease (I know not literally, but just think of it that way).
(19:29:44) BardishMaster: Due to the fact that I was not sure whether it was officially a disease or not.
(19:29:52) Rachel Pwnz: Oh.
(19:29:53) Rachel Pwnz: Right.
(19:29:55) BardishMaster: I believe the proper term for this,
(19:29:56) BardishMaster: is..
(19:29:57) BardishMaster: Durrr
(19:30:01) Rachel Pwnz: I made the quote up when I copied it.
(19:30:10) BardishMaster: I just searched the entire thread..
(19:30:14) BardishMaster: unless i missed something
(19:30:16) Rachel Pwnz: Hm, you should try some inductive reasoning here.
(19:30:19) Rachel Pwnz: "You and Chadj"
(19:30:21) Rachel Pwnz: Means someone else
(19:30:22) Rachel Pwnz: And you.
(19:30:24) Rachel Pwnz: Not you and you.
(19:30:27) Rachel Pwnz: Therefore
(19:30:30) Rachel Pwnz: SOMEONE ELSE SAID IT
(19:30:31) Rachel Pwnz: DURRR

I don't like Neininque. Unfortunately for me, I do think those drug addicts suck. I fully support rounding them up and putting them to death. No right to live, if you ask me.

- Arkans

[Jazuela]

No Bob, addiction is not purely willpower. It is a *physical need* to do something. You cannot cease breathing simply because you have the willpower to do so. You are ADDICTED to air. You cannot refuse to eat indefinitely and use willpower to do it with. You are ADDICTED to food. Your body requires it in ordered to maintain itself.

When you are addicted to illegal drugs, something triggers in your body, and begins to *require* the substance in order for your body to maintain itself. When you stop using that drug, your body begins to fail.

Some nicotine addicts can go through similar withdrawal symptoms as heroine addicts. Delerium tremens, vomiting, severe weight loss, severe depression, hallucinations, sleeplessness, fainting, etc. etc. etc. It is a violent reaction your body produces when you attempt to STOP doing the drug. It is also why there are so many addicts of so many different types of drugs (including nicotine). Because your body is DEMANDING more of the substance and puts up a major war inside your skin if you refuse to give in.

It has very little to do with willpower. It is a chemical, physical, and serious need for a toxic substance that will eventually poison you if you continue - and will make you violently ill if you don't continue.

Not everyone gets addicted. But never for a moment believe that it is "just a matter of willpower" to someone who truly IS addicted. If it is only willpower, then it isn't really addiction. It's just a bad habit. I was fortunate when it came to coke - it was a habit. I'm not as fortunate with nicotine. I am addicted. HUGE difference.

[HarmNone]

Most medical professionals consider addiction a disease.

Here's an interesting and informative link for those who are not willing to accept Bobmuhthol as the standing expert on addiction.

http://www.hopenetworks.org/addiction/addiction%20a%20brain%20disease.htm

[GSLeloo]

Disease or not, isn't it true that you get addicted by your own choice. You choose the actions you make for the most part especially in cases like that... you start out smoking pot, you choose to, then you want something better, you get cocaine, whatever. You make the choice yourself and if you become addicted it's your fault and you don't deserve treatment cause you screwed your life up especially if you then threatened the lives of two innocent people.

[Bobmuhthol]

(19:38:58) BardishMaster: Also, become addicted to something and stop, or watch someone struggle through addiction, and tell me it's all willpower. Sorry bud.. You're smart, and you know about a lot of shit, but this isn't one of those things.
(19:39:03) BardishMaster logged out.


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

Shut the fuck up. Nobody cares about how bad you think your life is.

[Edited on 9-16-2004 by Bobmuhthol]

[Bobmuhthol]

<<You are ADDICTED to air. You cannot refuse to eat indefinitely and use willpower to do it with. You are ADDICTED to food. Your body requires it in ordered to maintain itself.>>

I can do just that. I'm not addicted to air and I'm not addicted to food. I just like to live. If you think I'm addicted to air, then how the fuck can you justify that it's a disease? I'M DISEASED BECAUSE I BREATHE?

[Bobmuhthol]

http://www.enotes.com/addiction/1556
http://www.american-partisan.com/cols/2001/mercer/qtr1/print/0313.htm
http://www.coursework.info/i/12403.html
http://www.drlaura.com/letters/?mode=view&tile=1&id=7763
http://soberforever.net/
http://www.sexualcontrol.com/sex-addiction-masturbation-pornography_11.html
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/menshealth/facts/addiction.htm
http://www.webspawner.com/users/twobittstim/

I think that's at least as many opinions that have been given saying that addiction is a disease, for those of you who believe that the people posting are not experts.

[xtc]

too be 15 again and not know your dick from your asshole. I am going to go with the American Medical Association on this one and agree that addiction is a disease. The sites that Bob have stated are laughable and go against the medical majority. Stanton-Peele has being spewing his rhetoric for years ignoring reems of medical evidence that show chemical differences in the reaction to alcohol and drugs that addicts have as opposed to normal people. Dr. Laura well what can I saw talk about maladjusted, Dr heal thy self.

I do agree that this does not absolve someone from their actions when they are an addict and to do so would be injurous to the addict.

[Jolena]

I'm just curious..what proof did you have that the attackers were addicted to drugs? From what I saw on your initial post, they attacked you after asking for money and left a small child alone. BOO to all those things and they are fucking morons who should be locked up, yes. But..how do you know they are druggies?

[Bobmuhthol]

If they asked for $40 you know they're looking for 10 bags of heroin.

Other than that, an excellent point has just been made by Jolena for the first time.

[Chadj]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
(19:38:58) BardishMaster: Also, become addicted to something and stop, or watch someone struggle through addiction, and tell me it's all willpower. Sorry bud.. You're smart, and you know about a lot of shit, but this isn't one of those things.
(19:39:03) BardishMaster logged out.


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

Shut the fuck up. Nobody cares about how bad you think your life is.

[Edited on 9-16-2004 by Bobmuhthol]

I do not complain about my life, and I don't, unless it's in my blogs or livejournal. Furthermore, I didn't even mention my life in that IM. I simply made a statement, because were being ignorant and you were ill-informed.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Also, become addicted to something and stop, or watch someone struggle through addiction, and tell me it's all willpower.>>

This suggests that happened to you.

That's you complaining about your life.

[Chadj]

Nah, was a statement. Try it and see; or read up more on what you are talking about. Either way. Just figure out wtf you are talking about, before you talk.

[Edited on 9-17-2004 by Chadj]

Who gives a fuck about the makeshift candyland terminology regarding whether addiction is a "disease" or an "illness" or a "stinky pile of poo."

What it is, inarguably, is a big, fucking, problem. Period.

[GSLeloo]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
Who gives a fuck about the makeshift candyland terminology regarding whether addiction is a "disease" or an "illness" or a "stinky pile of poo."

What it is, inarguably, is a big, fucking, problem. Period.


:clap:

[Kitsun]

Late into this discussion but I'm all for rounding up the fuckers and beating the disease out of them with blunt objects.

In a perfect world, perhaps everyone could be helped and brought back to be a useful member of society.

In our world, we should cut the losses and limit the harm these idiots can do.

[i remember halloween]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
That sucks royally, who the fuck 30 year old is going to do that stupid fucking shit to a 13 year old GIRL? :wtf: Did you at least get a concise positive ID on them?

a concise positive ID? stfu dude they are just some fuckin worthless bums. you should have gritted your teeth, clenched your fists and solved problems the easy way. turns some filthy fucking drug addict's face into a bloody mess.

Hate to say it guys, but Bob is right in this arguement. I'd explain why, but he pretty much stated most of the valid points.

- Arkans

[Jolena]

Noone can tell me how she knows these people are druggies? Hmm..

[Bobmuhthol]

I can tell you that you're right, isn't that enough?

Originally posted by i remember halloween

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
That sucks royally, who the fuck 30 year old is going to do that stupid fucking shit to a 13 year old GIRL? :wtf: Did you at least get a concise positive ID on them?

a concise positive ID? stfu dude they are just some fuckin worthless bums. you should have gritted your teeth, clenched your fists and solved problems the easy way. turns some filthy fucking drug addict's face into a bloody mess.

Nieneque (sp) isn't the one mainlining heroin and leaving her baby across the street to mug 13 year olds, she did something civil and good, instead of turning into the same barbaric scum that started this mess.

[Scott]

Originally posted by GSLeloo
Disease or not, isn't it true that you get addicted by your own choice. You choose the actions you make for the most part especially in cases like that... you start out smoking pot, you choose to, then you want something better, you get cocaine, whatever. You make the choice yourself and if you become addicted it's your fault and you don't deserve treatment cause you screwed your life up especially if you then threatened the lives of two innocent people.

Sometimes people get hooked on pain pills from a doctor. Pain pills are VERY addictive, and normally lead to heroin. People in those cases don't make a choice, they do what the doctor told them and they got hooked. Sure people continue to do the drugs, but addiction is a serious thing, something that isn't easy to break. Getting hooked on drugs isn't always something that you do intentionally......

People change and turn their lives around. People make mistakes, sometimes serious ones. Thankfully many people don't turn their back on drug addicts in these positions and try to help them, instead of sitting there and watching them sink.

[Jolena]

I love how folks are saying that these folks are mainlining heroin lmao. SO great to assume eh?

And yeah bob, I spose you saying I was right was a big enough thrill. :worship:

Originally posted by Jolena
I love how folks are saying that these folks are mainlining heroin lmao. SO great to assume eh?

And yeah bob, I spose you saying I was right was a big enough thrill. :worship:

Correction: Baseheads. If I am to believe this entire story to be true.

[GSLeloo]

Originally posted by Gemstone101
Sometimes people get hooked on pain pills from a doctor. Pain pills are VERY addictive, and normally lead to heroin. People in those cases don't make a choice, they do what the doctor told them and they got hooked. Sure people continue to do the drugs, but addiction is a serious thing, something that isn't easy to break. Getting hooked on drugs isn't always something that you do intentionally......

People change and turn their lives around. People make mistakes, sometimes serious ones. Thankfully many people don't turn their back on drug addicts in these positions and try to help them, instead of sitting there and watching them sink.

Ooh very good point! I didn't even think of it that way, I was just thinking more of like people who choose to take drugs to begin with. Still I think no matter which way you get to it, if you become addicted and become so desperate for that drug that you attack a child, you truly deserve what's coming to you.

Yeesh, $40 for 10 bags (AKA: bundle), they're getting overcharged by $10.

- Arkans

[Meos]

one word.

MACE.

[Scott]

Originally posted by GSLeloo

Originally posted by Gemstone101
Sometimes people get hooked on pain pills from a doctor. Pain pills are VERY addictive, and normally lead to heroin. People in those cases don't make a choice, they do what the doctor told them and they got hooked. Sure people continue to do the drugs, but addiction is a serious thing, something that isn't easy to break. Getting hooked on drugs isn't always something that you do intentionally......

People change and turn their lives around. People make mistakes, sometimes serious ones. Thankfully many people don't turn their back on drug addicts in these positions and try to help them, instead of sitting there and watching them sink.

Ooh very good point! I didn't even think of it that way, I was just thinking more of like people who choose to take drugs to begin with. Still I think no matter which way you get to it, if you become addicted and become so desperate for that drug that you attack a child, you truly deserve what's coming to you.

You most likely have never faced an addiction to drugs or been around someone in the situation. When you have to spend money left and right to get drugs so you aren't practically dying, you'll do just about anything. You aren't in the same mind frame as you are when you are sober. You can't stop, and the only way to pay off those people you owe money to and killing you is to steal.

Put a gun to someone's head and say "Hey, you got a week to get me my money or I'm killing you and your family." That gets you thinking and you need to do something, and fast. But wait.... you obviously can't make that money from your job, so that won't work. Now how are you going to steal when you're puking constantly and can barely move because you stopped what you are doing. So you have to continue your habit so you can function to steal.... but now you're going further down the hole then when you started.

I'm not condoning the fact that what these 2 people did, whether they are on drugs or not. However I understand why they are doing this to get money (if they are on drugs.) When you're in that situation and your at the point where you don't understand right and wrong..... then you can understand. It's easy to sit on the outside and say "How can they do that! Just put the stuff down and sober up!" It's not always that easy.

[Chadj]

Scott is correct. Thx.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by GSLeloo
then addiction is no excuse I don't recall anyone saying they shouldn't be punished because they're addicts. I recall people suggesting we (you, me, even Bobmuhthol) should HELP them because they need our help.
Originally posted by Jazuela
You cannot refuse to eat indefinitely and use willpower to do it with.Gandhi disagrees.
Originally posted by GSLeloo
You make the choice yourself and if you become addicted it's your fault and you don't deserve treatment cause you screwed your life up especially if you then threatened the lives of two innocent people. Read Chadj's car analogy plz.

[GSLeloo]

I'm aware that they're in a situation where they basically can't see right or wrong but does that mean they shouldn't be punished fully? The bad part is that no matter what your state of mind, you have to live with the consequences of your actions. No matter what state of mind you're in, if you kill someone you have to pay for.

[Scott]

Originally posted by GSLeloo
I'm aware that they're in a situation where they basically can't see right or wrong but does that mean they shouldn't be punished fully? The bad part is that no matter what your state of mind, you have to live with the consequences of your actions. No matter what state of mind you're in, if you kill someone you have to pay for.

Who said anything about that? Unless I missed something, I didn't see anything say that they shouldn't be punished.

[GSLeloo]

I'd have to reread but I thought someone said we should be lenient on them cause they're addicted and it's a disease. But I do fully agree with you Scott.

[Chadj]

They should be punished to the full extent of the law.

[longshot]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
If they asked for $40 you know they're looking for 10 bags of heroin.

Other than that, an excellent point has just been made by Jolena for the first time.

Bob, was it your brother?

[Killer Kitten]

<<You don't see people with OTHER diseases doing that kinda shit - addicts can NOT use their addictions to justify their behavior. They can damned well go to the doctor like every other diseased person in the country and get treatment.>>

If only that were so. Most treatment programs for drug and alcohol abusers in this country are expensive, have a huge waiting list and do not accept insurance. (Or if they do, the addict can't hold on to a job that actually provides it.)
I spent three hellish years married to an alcoholic. Get him medical treatment for his alcoholism? Probably easier to grow wings and fly to Heaven so I can solicit help directly from God.
When he'd overdose on alcohol I could check him in to a hospital through the emergency room. They'd detox him and when he was no longer at the brink of dying they'd discharge him and hand him a flier from AA on his way out. He'd find a bar and be drinking again within minutes of leaving the hospital.
When he was on a drunk (which was most of the time) he'd do the most godawful stupid shit... and not remember it the next day. He never thought he had a problem, booze was just 'the damnation of the Irish' and waking up feeling like crap and stinking like a goat was what 'real men' did.
It's an awful way to live. Nobody who hasn't gone through it can imagine the pure hellishness of such a life. It's awful for the addict and even more awful for the 18 year old who was stupid enough to marry him.

Kimm/Ex-Tilone

[Chadj]

On an unrelated note, I just got electricuted.. :(

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Chadj
They should be punished to the full extent of the law.

Which probably wont amount to much.
Chadj I wasnt quoting your post to bemoan the fact that you smoke pot, you said in your journals that you sell drugs. That makes your opinion about drugs and the effects of them thereafter, worthless (in my opinion). Dont talk to me about how addiction is a disease when you are selling the fucking stuff to induce this "disease" in people.

Jolena, Im sorry I didnt answer you, as the Police didnt turn up last night to get a statement, I went to bed. My little sister was unable to sleep.
I dont know for sure that they were on drugs, but by their skanky appearance, their rotten teeth, their lack of ability to form coherent sentences without slurring, and their ability to not look like drugged up wankers, I think its a pretty safe bet...plus the Police Sergeant who came out confirmed that they were under the influence of some drug(s) and probably alcohol too.

[Caiylania]

What a horrible experience. I hope your sister is coping okay, I've been in a similiar situation once (person turned out to be on meth I believe) and I didn't stop shaking for hours.

It is sad that people who choose to do illegal drugs (from the start - not pain pill transition) think they aren't hurting anyone.

As an aside...... my mother (after about 3 back surgeries) became addicted to pain medication. For a long time no one realized she had a problem and finally Doctor's clued in and tried to help her. For her, it was a mix of the pain and being addicted that she couldn't stop. However, she would NEVER try to hurt someone to get pills and luckily she did get help.

Drug addicted or not, someone who attacks/mugs/steals to feed their addiction is scum and should be dealt with.

[Artha]

Dont talk to me about how addiction is a disease when you are selling the fucking stuff to induce this "disease" in people.

He sells pot. Pot is not addictive.

[Nieninque]

I just did my statement to the Police and they are going to charge him with attempted robbery. She will be charged with affray.

I spoke to someone my mum knows who knows of them and they are indeed druggies, for anyone who is interested

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Artha

Dont talk to me about how addiction is a disease when you are selling the fucking stuff to induce this "disease" in people.

He sells pot. Pot is not addictive.

It is an illegal substance. He sells it.
It is a matter of degree.
People who smoke cannabis are more likely to use heroin than people who dont.
Either way, I dont listen to the advice of drug dealers when they are talking of the effects of drugs.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<People who smoke cannabis are more likely to use heroin than people who dont.>>

No they aren't. Take your "facts" and shove them. Marijuana is not and never will be a gateway drug.

[Jazuela]

Yeah that's a bit over the top Neininque. Marijuana is decriminalized in some jurisdictions, for starters. THC, the chemical component that gives you the high, is *legal* in other jurisdictions for medical use and in some cases is even covered by health insurance.

It isn't addictive, it doesn't "lead" to other drug use. What leads to other drug use is hanging out with people who use marijuana *and* other drugs, and being pressured or convinced to try those other drugs by those other people. If you grow your own weed and don't hang out with druggies, you have no exposure to those elements, and are not likely *at all* to try other drugs as a result of your pot smoking.

I mean yeesh - that myth was busted decades ago. I can understand your being upset, but really - lighten up a bit. Alcohol is LEGAL and addictive, yet I'll bet that at some point in your life, you've enjoyed a drink or two. Does that make you a druggie now? Remember, alcohol is a DRUG. Marijuana isn't nearly as harmful as cigarettes to the mind or body - and has actual medical use, unlike its legal plant-cousin, tobacco, which is deadly to the body, and has no known medical use.

The term "druggie" does not apply to people who smoke pot. Please don't confuse the two.

[Tsa`ah]

My take.

The two assailants need to be prosecuted, incarcerated, treated for their disease, rehabilitated, sterilized, and forced to clean streets, sidewalks, and parks for a few years.

Addiction is a disease like it or not. I'll take the findings of medical professionals and the rulings of the AMA (no matter how political and capitalistic they are) over the googlings and opinions of 14 year old little boys.

The term "gateway" drug is so 1950's school film material. One doesn't become addicted to an opiate and jump to cocaine, they move on to another opiate. Drugs don't lead to different drugs, they lead to drugs of the same family. By this god-awful "gate-way" definition, cigarette smokers should have been mugging old ladies for crack money by now.

Pot is not physically addictive, but it is psychologically addictive. While it is the most "abused" illegal substance, and I quote that word out of sarcasm, you just don't find pot heads holding up the 7-11 and bashing in old lady skulls to get cash for the next fix. They do stupid shit like hold on to their "friend's" car or stereo for a dime bag, or try to grow their own next to mom's rose bush.

While people choose to take a drug, they are rarely fully aware of the consequences. Kids think they're invulnerable and nothing can happen to them. Parents don't talk to kids about drugs and kids don't listen to anyone else as it is. Lack of good parenting is a good way to land a kid an addiction. Do you honestly think that I would be smoking today had mom or dad told me from the start that those ads on tv are absolutely correct and that my teachers do know what they are talking about?

Some addiction is passed down from parent to child. Ever see that commercial "I learned it from you dad, I learned it from watching you!". It's right. Parents who use have children who use. Most addicts didn't have a chance before they became addicted. Mom and dad may not have placed the coke on the dinner plate, but they sure as hell made it easily attainable. It's about perpetuating cycles.

So before all this bull shit starts about choice, be sure to narrow down your statements a bit.

[Edited on 9-17-2004 by Tsa`ah]

[Myshel]

>>Some addiction is passed down from parent to child. Ever see that commercial "I learned it from you dad, I learned it from watching you!". It's right. Parents who use have children who use. Most addicts didn't have a chance before they became addicted. Mom and dad may not have placed the coke on the dinner plate, but they sure as hell made it easily attainable. It's about perpetuating cycles.

So before all this bull shit starts about choice, be sure to narrow down your statements a bit.

[Edited on 9-17-2004 by Tsa`ah]

I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. Addictions run rampant though my family, from the time my kids where young they witnessed the damage. I never sugar coated it, I let them know that their grandfather was alcoholic and the damage it did to our family. That his father was an alcoholic, that their two uncles and aunt died young deaths from alcohol and drug abuse. No one chooses to be a addict but if you come from a family of addicts then your chances of becoming one increases dramatically. My sisters only child who lives with us is a walking talking example of alcohol abuse, as she was born with fetal alcohol syndrome. Her life has been greatly affected by abuse, from losing her mother to diminished mental capabilities. Its not just a disease that affects you, it has affected our family for 3 maybe more generations.

[Chadj]

<<Either way, I dont listen to the advice of drug dealers when they are talking of the effects of drugs. >>

Gotta go to my football game, but wouldn't a drug dealer know the effects better than other people???

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Chadj
Gotta go to my football game, but wouldn't a drug dealer know the effects better than other people???

A dealer is nothing but a salesperson. So, no. I can go to just about any car lot and I'll find more sales persons that don't know about the car they are selling than I can find that do.

Every sales person knows the "specs" or should, that doesn't mean they know the product.

A dealer is just a salesman in a consumable addiction driven market.

[TheEnforcer]

Addiction is a disease.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
try to grow their own next to mom's rose bush. You said you wouldn't tell anyone!! :(:(:(:(

[hectomaner]

Originally posted by Nieninque
Addiction is a choice
If you choose not to take it, you wont get addicted to it.
It isnt a disease, it isnt an illness. It's a choice. And on making that choice, they take the consequences. I hope they rot in hell.

you are a fucking idiot

[hectomaner]

Originally posted by Artha

Dont talk to me about how addiction is a disease when you are selling the fucking stuff to induce this "disease" in people.

He sells pot. Pot is not addictive.

and the survey says.... WRONG.

while pot is not physically addictive, it has the potential to be, and in many cases has been, psychologically addictive

[hectomaner]

bob.

10 bags of smak for $40, heh, not quite. and also, your comment about marijuana not being a gateway drug, well, you obviously dont understand what is meant by the term 'gateway drug'


all in all, id say about 85% of the people that posted on this are ignorant to the subject of addiction. it makes me laugh when people throw up their opinions in the 'this is what i think, i am right, anyone else is wrong' manner. and i'm very surpised by chadj too. he actually has some sense in him

[HarmNone]

Exactly, hectomaner. While smoking marijuana will not inevitably lead to the use of heroin, its use can lead to psychological addiction. With that psychological addiction often comes the desire to get "just a little bit higher". It is from that desire that the use of "harder" drugs comes, and many of those "harder" drugs are physically addictive.

Too often, those who use marijuana are the type of people who have trouble coping with stress in daily life. They want to escape it, so they smoke. Or, they smoke because their friends smoke (a follower); or, they smoke because it's "cool" (another follower); or, they smoke because they're "bored" (unable to initiate their own happiness and enjoyment).

This is NOT true of the casual marijuana smoker, in all cases, but it is often true of the frequent user. Some people can smoke pot for years and quit without a backward glance. Others find they just can't stop for whatever reason, whether genetic or psychological. In many ways, it's like drinking alcohol. Some can drink a few drinks and stop. Others don't stop until they're comatose. When people start out, they really don't know which type they are. :shrug:

HarmNone has smoked pot. Thankfully, she is not an addictive personality.

[Bobmuhthol]

What the fuck is smak? You're the one who doesn't know anything.

I don't buy the shit, so I don't need to keep updated, but less than a year ago 10 bags of heroin would run $40 in Massachusetts.

<<all in all, id say about 85% of the people that posted on this are ignorant to the subject of addiction.>>

You're ignorant to the subject of math.

<<it makes me laugh when people throw up their opinions in the 'this is what i think, i am right, anyone else is wrong' manner.>>

You're doing the same thing.

<<and also, your comment about marijuana not being a gateway drug, well, you obviously dont understand what is meant by the term 'gateway drug'>>

A gateway drug is a substance that leads to the (ab)use of a stronger one. Nieninque said people who smoke marijuana are more likely to abuse heroin. This is incorrect, because marijuana does not lead to other drugs, and is therefore not a gateway drug.

Fucking retard.

Too often, those who use marijuana are the type of people who have trouble coping with stress in daily life. They want to escape it, so they smoke. Or, they smoke because their friends smoke (a follower); or, they smoke because it's "cool" (another follower); or, they smoke because they're "bored" (unable to initiate their own happiness and enjoyment).

...Hence why it is, in fact, a gateway drug (for some.) If that personality type loses the buzz from weed, and craves to get it back, they will most likely move onto worse things. Combine this with the synergy of trying to "forget" some mental anguish and the probability for usage of harder drugs becomes more of a reality.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
What the fuck is smak? A slang term for heroin. Spelled: Smack.

[HarmNone]

Heh. It's just common sense, Dev. Problem is, it's decidedly uncommon. :D

HarmNone, on the rarity of common sense

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
Too often, those who use marijuana are the type of people who have trouble coping with stress in daily life. They want to escape it, so they smoke. Or, they smoke because their friends smoke (a follower); or, they smoke because it's "cool" (another follower); or, they smoke because they're "bored" (unable to initiate their own happiness and enjoyment).

...Hence why it is, in fact, a gateway drug (for some.) If that personality type loses the buzz from weed, and craves to get it back, they will most likely move onto worse things. Combine this with the synergy of trying to "forget" some mental anguish and the probability for usage of harder drugs becomes more of a reality.

Ko-rectamundo! :D

HarmNone, agreeing with Stanley...do I need a shrink?:smilegrin:

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Druggies deserve to go to hell (and not just any hell, I'm talking the Christian fire and brimstone hell).

Bitches.

[Bobmuhthol]

http://www.rand.org/news/press.02/gateway.html

And that is why marijuana is not a gateway drug.

[DeV]

Originally posted by HarmNone
Heh. It's just common sense, Dev. Problem is, it's decidedly uncommon. :D

HarmNone, on the rarity of common sense I had to delete my post because Bob posted before I did. Note to self: Quote next time. But yea, you are definitely not lacking in that department . :)

[PassinBy]

I've no pity for druggies. I've seen it kill far too many friends, aquaintences, contemporaries and such to feel anything but contempt for the Fucktards (by the by, whomever first used the word "Fucktard" here gets into show we play free for life...fucking brilliant word) who use, sell or give away the shit.

It doesn't make you creative, witty, sexy or anything else you think it does when you are stoned. It gives you the social and creative skills of a fucking fungus.

[hectomaner]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
What the fuck is smak? You're the one who doesn't know anything.

I don't buy the shit, so I don't need to keep updated, but less than a year ago 10 bags of heroin would run $40 in Massachusetts.

<<all in all, id say about 85% of the people that posted on this are ignorant to the subject of addiction.>>

You're ignorant to the subject of math.

<<it makes me laugh when people throw up their opinions in the 'this is what i think, i am right, anyone else is wrong' manner.>>

You're doing the same thing.

<<and also, your comment about marijuana not being a gateway drug, well, you obviously dont understand what is meant by the term 'gateway drug'>>

A gateway drug is a substance that leads to the (ab)use of a stronger one. Nieninque said people who smoke marijuana are more likely to abuse heroin. This is incorrect, because marijuana does not lead to other drugs, and is therefore not a gateway drug.

Fucking retard.

i have been through it ALL bob. i am not the one who doesnt know anything. i am not a retard. personal experience out weighs any opinions you have on the subject or what you THINK you know. you cant always be right, and this time you arent. its ok, you can admit it

[HarmNone]

Quoted from your source Bob:

"The people who are predisposed to use drugs and have the opportunity to use drugs are more likely than others to use both marijuana and harder drugs," Morral said. "Marijuana typically comes first because it is more available. Once we incorporated these facts into our mathematical model of adolescent drug use, we could explain all of the drug use associations that have been cited as evidence of marijuana's gateway effect."

Please note the bolded section (mine). That is exactly what I was talking about. Some people can use marijuana and not move on to harder drugs. Others cannot. People who are predisposed to drug use are more likely to use harder drugs, but will probably start with marijuana.

I think the problem arises with the interpretation of "gateway". Some people define that as meaning that the use of marijuana will, somehow, CAUSE a person to crave harder drugs. That, indeed, is a fallacy. However, the personality that is predisposed to use drugs in the first place, including marijuana, has a greater chance of becoming dependent on harder drugs down the road. This results more from a psychological predisposition than from a physical one.

Again, quoted from your source:

>>Evidence supporting claims of marijuana's gateway effects has been found in many epidemiological studies of adolescent drug use. For instance, these studies found that marijuana users are up to 85 times more likely to use hard drugs than those who do not use marijuana, and few hard drug users do not use marijuana first.<<

These studies cannot simply be ignored because one chooses to espouse a different viewpoint, nor do the authors of your quoted material do so.

HarmNone

[Bobmuhthol]

<<These studies cannot simply be ignored because one chooses to espouse a different viewpoint, nor do the authors of your quoted material do so.>>

So I'm wrong for posting an unbiased site?

<<i have been through it ALL bob.>>

It shows.

<<i am not the one who doesnt know anything.>>

Yes, you are.

<<i am not a retard.>>

Yes, you are.

<<personal experience out weighs any opinions you have on the subject or what you THINK you know.>>

Not correct. I've been to a lot of baseball games, and have more personal experience than others, but I certainly don't know more than a LOT of people when it comes to baseball.

<<you cant always be right, and this time you arent. its ok, you can admit it>>

You can't always be dumb, but you still pull it off pretty well.

[HarmNone]

>>So I'm wrong for posting an unbiased site? <<

Show me where I said you were wrong for posting the site, Bob. Just show me. Don't run your mouth. Just show me.

HarmNone, waiting to see evidence that she said any such thing

[Bobmuhthol]

Show me where I said you said I was wrong.

[AnticorRifling]

I blame liberals.

[DeV]

It CAN be a gateway drug for some and often times, is. Though a blanket statement of that theory should be omitted.
The debate is controversial because there is proof to substantiate the findings of either side of the issue.

Some people never smoke unless their drinking alcohol. Does that make alcohol a gateway drug. Fact: Alcohol and tobacco kill more people annually than all other drugs combined.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Show me where I said you said I was wrong.

The quote is in my post, child. Your normal ruses won't work here. If you are not referring to me, Bob, don't quote my post and include an answer to it. That way, you won't have to deal with my cornering you on some of your outrageous crap!

posted on 9-17-2004 at 14:58 Post ID: 240469 by HarmNone

These studies cannot simply be ignored because one chooses to espouse a different viewpoint, nor do the authors of your quoted material do so.

Followed by:

posted on 9-17-2004 at 15:02 Post ID: 240470 by Bobmuhthol

<<These studies cannot simply be ignored because one chooses to espouse a different viewpoint, nor do the authors of your quoted material do so.>>

So I'm wrong for posting an unbiased site?

Seems to me, considering that you quoted MY post, that you are of the opinion that the quoted post somehow indicated that you were wrong for posting a site. Otherwise, there would be no reason for the quote, as it would not apply to your response.

Now, Bob. You can play your little boy games all you like. However, don't think people don't see through you. When your 14-year-old "truths" are challenged, you'll come up with some really stupid things to justify your opinion. If they don't work, you just get more stupid.

What you don't know about the world in general, Bob, would fill tomes. You will learn, in time. At 14 years of age, one is not expected to know a lot about life. You don't.

HarmNone

[Disrupture]

While I wouldn't go so far as to say that people who smoke pot are going to do harder drugs, I'd definently say it piques an interest. Especially once you start using it often.

I've only tried one illegal substance other than pot. I can certainly say I'm not really interested in any of the others. I don't need some intense drug experience. However, I can say that almost all of my friends who smoked have tried something other than pot.

Does smoking pot lead to being a herion addict? No. But I can certainly say after smoking regularly I'm more interested in drugs I said I would never try. I find myself sometimes looking for descriptions of what herion is like, even though I am never going to do it myself. It's definently piqued an interest.

[Bobmuhthol]

HarmNone,

I asked a question.

Cry about it.

- Me.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by HarmNone
Too often, those who use marijuana are the type of people who have trouble coping with stress in daily life. They want to escape it, so they smoke. Or, they smoke because their friends smoke (a follower); or, they smoke because it's "cool" (another follower); or, they smoke because they're "bored" (unable to initiate their own happiness and enjoyment). They're not addicted to the drug, though. They're addicted to stress relief, or respect from peers, or entertainment. This is why I find the term "psychologically addictive" questionable, because psychology is a pretty iffy field to begin with.
People who are predisposed to drug use are more likely to use harder drugs, but will probably start with marijuana. That's like saying that a person who is predisposed to fall down without a floor underneath them is more likely to hit the ground if they go through a hoop. Or did I miss something?

I tried Bailey's one time. It didn't make me lust for 190 proof corn liquor (if such a thing exists).

[DeV]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

People who are predisposed to drug use are more likely to use harder drugs, but will probably start with marijuana. That's like saying that a person who is predisposed to fall down without a floor underneath them is more likely to hit the ground if they go through a hoop. Or did I miss something?

I tried Bailey's one time. It didn't make me lust for 190 proof corn liquor (if such a thing exists). Your analogy is laughable.

[HarmNone]

Heh. I started to respond similarly, Dev, but I decided it just wasn't worth it. However, for an answer to your question, Latrinsorm, I'd suggest you ask the folks who wrote Bob's quoted material. They sorta explain it in the article he quoted. :rolleyes:

HarmNone

[Bobmuhthol]

<<It didn't make me lust for 190 proof corn liquor (if such a thing exists).>>

Pure alcohol is commonly only 95% alcohol by volume due to ethanol's absolute ability to kill everyone. I'd have to say such a thing does not exist unless pure alcohol = 190 proof corn liquor.

Edit: Bailey's does suck.

[Edited on 9-17-2004 by Bobmuhthol]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by HarmNone
However, for an answer to your question, Latrinsorm, I'd suggest you ask the folks who wrote Bob's quoted material.Ah, ok: "it suggests that policies aimed at reducing or eliminating marijuana availability are unlikely to make any dent in the hard drug problem."

So, marijuana vanishes, but hard drug use stays the same. So saying that people probably start with marijuana is irrelevant, because they would do hard drugs anyways.

So, a hoop vanishes, but people still hit the ground. So saying that people probably go through a hoop is irrelevant, because they would hit the ground anyway.

I like my analogy. :(

[HarmNone]

That's what they say, Latrinsorm. However, I've got to wonder...

Knowing what we know of the addictive qualities of crack cocaine and heroin, and considering what we know about the lack of physically addicting properties in marijuana, would someone who was unable to get marijuana as a start-up substance be likely to say: "Oh, what the hell! I think I'll just shoot up some heroin!"? Personally, I think that might stop some people from starting down the "golden path". Not all, surely. Yet, it might stop some people.

HarmNone, just musing...not doing a doctoral study ;)

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by HarmNone
HarmNone, just musing...not doing a doctoral study ;) In this world, there's two kinds of people, Harm. Those who write the doctoral studies, and those who do the musing. I guess what I'm trying to say, in an overly referential manner, is that it's these folks' jobs to get the studies right. Someone shooting up heroin as their first drug experience seeming unlikely to you and me is all well and good, but our believing it doesn't make it so.

[HarmNone]

An individual's simple belief in ANYTHING does not make it so, Latrinsorm. :)

HarmNone knows this very well

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by HarmNone
An individual's simple belief in ANYTHING does not make it so, Latrinsorm. :)

HarmNone knows this very well Just making sure. <3

[Disrupture]

I acctually had a friend who, because he couldn't get marijuana, made LSD his first drug experience.

I still bitch at him to this day for that.

[Chadj]

Hallucinegens (sp?) are overrated. I tried shrooms once. Tasted like shit, and barely got a buzz... definately didn't start hallucinating.

Moral is: The only drug worth doing, is pot. And if you do anything else, you are REALLY stupid. ( As opposed to just stupid for doing pot)

[Edited on 9-18-2004 by Chadj]

[Jazuela]

HarmNone agrees with Stanley, I agree with Bob. Someone shoot us all plz.

A "gateway drug" is called a "gateway drug" because it is COMMONLY KNOWN to lead to other drugs. Marijuana (as Stanley himself pointed out) -can- lead to other drugs - for SOME people. This is not common. It is a potential, and only for some people.

There are thousands and thousands and tens of thousands of people in the USA who smoke pot, and are not abusers of other drugs.

Marijuana is smoked, religiously, by certain religious groups. In particular, the Rasta Farians of Jamaica. Not only are they not known to be drug abusers, but substances such as crack and heroine are against their religion - one which they take very seriously.

There are countries in which marijuana is legal, and doesn't lead to anything other than - increased revenue for the government through taxation and permits to distribute.

The only way marijuana is connected with "gateway" movement toward drug abuse (and I don't consider smoking pot to be abuse, regardless of the legalities involved), is when people who already do other drugs convince their pot-smoking buddies to try those other drugs. It has nothing to do with the marijuana. It has everything to do with the people they're hanging out with.

That is all.

[HarmNone]

I think that's what we've been saying, Jazuela.

HarmNone

[Back]

The real “gateway” drugs are cigarettes and alcohol. No joke.

[Nieninque]

For anyone that's interested, the bloke was charged with Assault with intent to rob and the woman was charged with violent and threatening behaviour or something like that.

He will be remanded with a bit of luck so he wont even get to spend his time until his trial wandering around scoring his next fix.
Bastards.

[HarmNone]

Glad to hear they were punished, hon. If they choose to do the crime, they need to do the time.

[Chadj]

Most excellent!!!:):)

[Psykos]

Wow... here is how it'd actually go down:

give druggie 20000
616 druggie
hide
warn druggie interact
report The druggie just tried to pwn me

:)


Originally posted by Nieninque
I was just screaming at her to go into the shop and get out of the way. I was more scared for her than I was for me.
<b>I wish I coulda been Snowy just then

:616 druggie:
:616 druggie's g/f:
:hold baby:
:hold sister:
: Symbol of return:

[Edited on 16-9-04 by Nieninque]

[Ben]

druggies should get beat the fuck up! next time you see some homeless piece of shit sleeping on the sidewalk and no ones around FUCKING KICK THEM IN THE HEAD

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Ben
druggies should get beat the fuck up! next time you see some homeless piece of shit sleeping on the sidewalk and no ones around FUCKING KICK THEM IN THE HEAD

So the next time you drink yourself beyond the stupidity you are capable of when sober, I can bash in your skull with a crowbar?

[Chadj]

AHAHAHHAHAHHA

[TheEschaton]

They may, get some fluffy help which they wont follow through, wasting time effort and money, instead making the choice to go back to their disgusting druggie way of life, probably assaulting and scaring other children along the way, whilst my little sister is now scared to go out of the house now in case she bumps into these wankers again.

The reason people think these programs suck is that because its success stories seek to put the past behind them, except for the rare few types who end up being crazy fundamentalist preachers and/or motivational speakers. Those programs save lives every day, including people I know, and no one is undeserving of the opportunity to try again. Do some people blow it? Yup. I knew a person who once left rehab 4 times before she finally went straight. She'll be clean 14 years next February.

I love people who preach from their moral high ground, without a bit of empathy for the fact that people are: a) inherently good, but b) make mistakes, and c) should be given a second, third, and yes, even a fourth chance.

As they say, "If your brother sins against you, forgive him 7 times 70 times."

But then again, that's the bleeding heart liberal in me. ;)

-TheE-

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by TheEschaton

I love people who preach from their moral high ground, without a bit of empathy for the fact that people are: a) inherently good, but b) make mistakes, and c) should be given a second, third, and yes, even a fourth chance.


Fuck right off.
When someone threatens to hit my little sister, they dont deserve any other chances. Adults punching people because they ask them to leave them alone, threatening to hit children while they are dragging a 2 year old of their own along the road, whilst trying to assault aforementioned children deserve a bloody good kicking.
And it's not the moral high ground Im talking from, its my heart. Why should someone else have to be subjected to the shit this pair get up to on the chances that they "might make things good"?

[Bobmuhthol]

So because it was your sister they deserve harsher punishment than everyone else. You wouldn't give a shit if this happened to someone you don't know.

Well, I don't know you, so I can only hope they get back on the street for some revenge.

[Nieninque]

I would say that about any adult that assaulted or attempted to a 13 year old.

You are still a wanker

[Bobmuhthol]

<<When someone threatens to hit my little sister>>

I forgot the part where every 13 year old is your sister. I've been through it before, sans an older sibling, and in another instance, plus a chick.

[HarmNone]

>>When someone threatens to hit my little sister, they dont deserve any other chances. Adults punching people because they ask them to leave them alone, threatening to hit children while they are dragging a 2 year old of their own along the road, whilst trying to assault aforementioned children deserve a bloody good kicking. <<

Let's look at the whole paragraph, instead of picking out just one sentence, Bob. Only in the first sentence of the paragraph does she speak of her sister. The second sentence addresses the issue of adults punching people, and of adults threatening to hit children (children being a general, not specific, term).

HarmNone, looking at the whole forest instead of concentrating on one tree

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by HarmNone
Let's look at the whole paragraph,I did. It made me :(

[Back]

Hey, those two deserve jail time as far as I’m concerned. I don’t care who it is, but for those two to try and assault a woman and a female child...

Someone mentioned mace, Nein. I agree. Get it. Use it. I know it sucks, but that might teach them better than any fluffy treatment.

[Nieninque]

I think mace is illegal here

[Ravenstorm]

Pepper spray isn't though.

Raven

[Nieninque]

whats pepper spray?

[Artha]

Same thing, but weaker.

[Nieninque]

I wouldnt even know where to get it

[Ravenstorm]

Different ingredients. A quick call to any police department will let you find out if either is legal in your area.

Raven

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Nieninque
I wouldnt even know where to get it

The police department could probably help you there too. Or just google for "pepper spray'.

Raven

[Psykos]

:loser:


Originally posted by Nieninque
whats pepper spray?

[Nieninque]

Phaykos, stop following me around like some retarded lovesick puppy and making nothing responses to my posts.

Edited to add this is why I didnt know:


It is illegal to both bring pepper spray into the United Kingdom and to possess it. Individuals who are caught carrying or using pepper spray are subject to arrest.

[Edited on 20-9-04 by Nieninque]

[Nieninque]

I just heard from the Police that this has now been transferred to the Crown Court due to the seriousness of the charges and they both appear in court on the 29th of September.
He was remanded in custody.
Just need to wait until the 29th now to see whether they plead guilty or not guilty, if it is not guilty then me and my sis will have to give evidence which I am not looking forward to :(