choosing my next handgun....round 2.

[loxe]

OK it seems I can't purchase or own a handgun with higher than a 10 round capacity.(I'm from NY)..and none of the models I liked have an option that qualifies. So been looking again . I've got big hands but short fingers so 99.9% of the concealables I've seen won't fit into my hand.

The S&W mp .40 shield with extended mag does fit and I found it comfortable to shoot and was pleased with the accuracy (rental model) so this may be an option.

I have also found I like the feel of the SIG p220 in .45 acp. But have not found one I can shoot. Anyone have any experience with this model? Its not as small as the S&W but as big as I am I could still conceal it.

Anyone think of anything else I should look at?
p.s. I do not like 1911's.

Thanks.
John

[Gelston]

p.s. I do not like 1911's.

Thanks.
John

I do not like you.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

1911's are overrated as fuck. Look at any 9mm subcompact or compact Glock. I've had/carried by Gen 1 Glock 17 for years and years and years and it's been more reliable than anything else I own. If you can't swing that, go for the USP series by HK. Either of those are THE BEST pistols in the world in terms of reliability and durability.

[Gelston]

Not to derail the thread, but 1911s sure as fuck are not overrated. You may not like them, but they are great weapons with a great history.

[AnticorRifling]

What the fuck? 1911's are the quintessential perfect metal machines. They are living art... the final evolution of a century of master American armorers. If you can't handle THE MASTER CRAFTSMANSHIP that is a 1911 own up to it and buy a shitty plastic glock like a fucking fairy.

Rojo is correct.

[Taernath]

I have also found I like the feel of the SIG p220 in .45 acp. But have not found one I can shoot. Anyone have any experience with this model? Its not as small as the S&W but as big as I am I could still conceal it.

You mean like the 220 is too big, or too small? I had a CCP for my job for a while and used a 226 and 228, both were a dream to carry and shoot in various calibers.

[loxe]

You mean like the 220 is too big, or too small? I had a CCP for my job for a while and used a 226 and 228, both were a dream to carry and shoot in various calibers.

No I like the feel of the 220. But havent been able to find one to shoot at the range and was just wondering if anyone had experience with this model.

And please do not get me wrong... 1911's are a great weapons they just are not comfortable in my hands when I am shooting. There for I (for me) dont care for them.

And before someone advises me that my problem can be solved by moving out of NY. This is not an option.

[kutter]

No I like the feel of the 220. But havent been able to find one to shoot at the range and was just wondering if anyone had experience with this model.

And please do not get me wrong... 1911's are a great weapons they just are not comfortable in my hands when I am shooting. There for I (for me) dont care for them.

And before someone advises me that my problem can be solved by moving out of NY. This is not an option.

I was going to comment on .45's but others have summed it up pretty well, I will grant it is a personal preference thing though.

The P220 is a full size pistol. but you did not say which M&P you are looking at so comparing is difficult in terms of size. Comparing in terms of quality is not, I know some will probably disagree, but Sig is in my opinion the finest engineered firearm in the world. In rifles and pistols I own 4 of them, with literally 10's of thousands of rounds through them and the only malfunction I have ever had was a misfire caused by faulty ammunition. But they are expensive and I know that. I also own two Glock's and in terms of value they are the best pistol on the market for the money so I would look at a Glock before the Smith, but that is just me.

I have both a P226 and P229 and the dimensions listed in the website are somewhat misleading until you try to carry each concealed. The 226 is full size, I have to wear a jacket of some type to conceal it where as the 229, I usually just wear a photographers vest or something like it and it is easily hidden. What I really want is a 224 but I am not certain how it would shoot in 357 SIG and do not want to drop the coin until I can shoot one, plus my wife may start cutting off parts of my anatomy if I buy another gun right now, at least one that is not specifically for her.

As I understand it, and I have never shot a 220 so I am going off what I have been told and read, all of the Sig 22X models use the same frame geometry, so if you like one you will likely like others, some will just be longer and have a taller grip, which can be compensated some by use of certain magazines. If a range has other 22X frame Sigs available to shoot, then try one of those, the way you hold it and your natural point of aim should be the same all that should change will be felt recoil, which in a 220 should actually be very pleasant in a full size pistol chambers in .45 ACP.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Have fun with your 7+1. Do you even suppressive fire, bro? 1911's are the most over rated pistols ever. I own one. Woo hoo. I don't carry it because it's magazine capacity makes it obsolete. Sure, when I run out of ammo, there is the off-chance my enemy is close enough to me that I can beat him to death with it but that's about it. They're too big. They're too heavy. And they're hard to conceal. And they have shit for mag capacity. I know some of you weren't POGs in Combat and maybe even threw down with bad guys once or twice, do you remember trying to gain fire superiority? How well is that going to work with a magazine change every 8 rounds? It was great when it came out and served us well over the years, but I'd take my Glock or HK over a 1911 any day of the week if I am doing something more dangerous than shooting paper targets. If you're going for concealed carry, find something that you can actually conceal, something you can shoot worth a fuck with any degree of accuracy, and then make sure it has enough bullets to do the job. And yeah, we could always start to argue the idiotic point that .45 is better than 9mm. Two in the chest from either will do the job so it's a moot point.

[kutter]

Have fun with your 7+1. Do you even suppressive fire, bro? 1911's are the most over rated pistols ever. I own one. Woo hoo. I don't carry it because it's magazine capacity makes it obsolete. Sure, when I run out of ammo, there is the off-chance my enemy is close enough to me that I can beat him to death with it but that's about it. They're too big. They're too heavy. And they're hard to conceal. And they have shit for mag capacity. I know some of you weren't POGs in Combat and maybe even threw down with bad guys once or twice, do you remember trying to gain fire superiority? How well is that going to work with a magazine change every 8 rounds? It was great when it came out and served us well over the years, but I'd take my Glock or HK over a 1911 any day of the week if I am doing something more dangerous than shooting paper targets. If you're going for concealed carry, find something that you can actually conceal, something you can shoot worth a fuck with any degree of accuracy, and then make sure it has enough bullets to do the job. And yeah, we could always start to argue the idiotic point that .45 is better than 9mm. Two in the chest from either will do the job so it's a moot point.

Ninja, did you really just talk about fire superiority and concealed carry in the same paragraph? Frankly, no one gains fire superiority with a pistol. He wants it for concealed carry so his main task should be to avoid confrontation and be able to extract himself from it if necessary. If he needs 15+1 and two more double stacks on his hip to do that, he made some very bad choices before he ever got to the point here he needed to pull a firearm.

The 9mm is a fine round, I would never say anything contrary, but the ballistics involved between it and the .45 are not in any way similar. A slight off center body mass hit with a 9mm means your assailant is still coming at you, with a .45 he is on the ground, it is pretty simple physics. The .40 is probably the best compromise between round count and knock down power, that is commercially available and not talking about some oddball rounds such as 10MM, which is really just a hot .40.

[Taernath]

I think Ninja brings up this fire superiority thing in every gun thread.

[Latrinsorm]

No disrespect, but shouldn't a ninja only need one round?

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Yes, there is such a different effect with a .45 inch hole in a person than a .356 inch hole in a person.

[AnticorRifling]

Ninja is an angry elf.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

I'm angry all the time. Rarely is it the fault of PC. For fucksake dude, just carry whatever works for you and remember more bullets is better.

[Parkbandit]

My Glock > My 1911

[Gelston]

My Glock > My 1911

I don't like Glocks. For some reason I ALWAYS hit the mag release when I fire.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

I don't like Glocks. For some reason I ALWAYS hit the mag release when I fire.

That sounds like a personal issue to me. :lolwave: Glocks are the AK of the pistol world. Just more accurate.

[Parkbandit]

I don't like Glocks. For some reason I ALWAYS hit the mag release when I fire.

I never thought I would buy a Glock. In fact, when I tested different guns out at a gun range, I didn't even ask for a glock at first. My niece who is in the Tampa Police department talked me into just trying it.

I love the feel, the way it shoots and the easy cleanup. I can completely take it apart and put it together within a minute or two. It has never once jammed on me and I've probably put 1500+ rounds thought it since I bought it.

[kutter]

Yes, there is such a different effect with a .45 inch hole in a person than a .356 inch hole in a person.

Ninja, as someone who seems fairly well versed in ballistics, are you really going to try to simplify it down to bullet diameters and not factor in bullet weight and speed? By the way, standard 9mm is actually .355, not .356.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Ninja, as someone who seems fairly well versed in ballistics, are you really going to try to simplify it down to bullet diameters and not factor in bullet weight and speed? By the way, standard 9mm is actually .355, not .356.

Yes. Just to infuriate you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHkqOWzDAZI

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po4nZTO3ES4

[Gelston]

I never thought I would buy a Glock. In fact, when I tested different guns out at a gun range, I didn't even ask for a glock at first. My niece who is in the Tampa Police department talked me into just trying it.

I love the feel, the way it shoots and the easy cleanup. I can completely take it apart and put it together within a minute or two. It has never once jammed on me and I've probably put 1500+ rounds thought it since I bought it.

Oh, I have no doubt they are great weapons. I wanted one for a while until I test fired a few of them. Just not for me. Although it has been about 10 years since I last fired one.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

"People who carry .45s never think they will miss." and "People who carry 9mm worry about running out of ammo."

[kutter]

THANKS A LOT NINJA :ranting:!! You just stole several hours of my life by showing me that guts youtube page, he is a riot!!!

[Jarvan]

OK it seems I can't purchase or own a handgun with higher than a 10 round capacity.(I'm from NY)..and none of the models I liked have an option that qualifies. So been looking again . I've got big hands but short fingers so 99.9% of the concealables I've seen won't fit into my hand.

The S&W mp .40 shield with extended mag does fit and I found it comfortable to shoot and was pleased with the accuracy (rental model) so this may be an option.

I have also found I like the feel of the SIG p220 in .45 acp. But have not found one I can shoot. Anyone have any experience with this model? Its not as small as the S&W but as big as I am I could still conceal it.

Anyone think of anything else I should look at?
p.s. I do not like 1911's.

Thanks.
John

You know what they say about .45 vrs .40... Go with .45... because they don't make a .46.

[cwolff]

Does the caliber matter that much compared to the type of round you're firing? We're talking anti-personnel right? Maybe there's a limit to what you own legally. I'm not really sure, but my assumption is that you can get some nasty shit to shoot at people who are breaking into your house. There's got to be some 9mm ammunition that puts a hurt on people like a regular .45 would.

[kutter]

To put it simply, no, it becomes a function of physics, a 9mm bullet weighs half as much but only travels at 50% faster speeds. Two different thought process in ballistics, small and faster versus big and slower.

That is not to say 9MM is not deadly because it is, just two different mindsets and a 9 will never be a 45, not better or worse, just different.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Terminal Ballistics.

Ballistic Gelatin Penetration in Inches

.22 40g RNL 11.5
.25 ACP 50g FMJ 17.5
.32 ACP 71g FMJ 19

.38 158g RNL 23.5
.380 ACP 95g FMJ 17

.45 230 FMJ 30.5
9mm 115g FMJ RN 24.5
9mm 147g FMJ FP 28.7
9mm 124g FMJ RN +P+ 34.5
357SIG 125g FMH FP 38.5
10mm 200g FMJ FP 29.8


PLYWOOD (test blocks made up of half inch
boards)

9mm Parabellum Inches

123 grain FMJ 4.4"
115 grain JHP +P+ 3.0"
115 grain JHP 2.7"
115 grain Silvertip 2.5"
80 grain Glaser 2.0"

.45 ACP Inches

230 grain FMJ 2.8"
200 grain JHP 2.4"
185 grain JHP 2.4"
185 grain Silvertip 1.7"
135 grain Glaser 1.3"

BULLET PENETRATION - INTERIOR WALL TESTS

Constructed of 2 sheets of 1/2" drywall mounted to 2x4" studs
on 16" centers.

Calibre Walls Penetrated Notes

9mmP FMJ 11 No expansion
.9mmP FMJ 9 Stopped by 2x4
9mmP JHP 9 No expasnion
.45 ACP JHP 8 No expansion
.45 ACP SWC 7 No expansion

As far as JHPs go, in the 40 round, 8 event FBI test series, the success rate is the percentage of rounds that pen at least 12 inches.

The worst 45s were the lighter 185/200 gr loads, and they did at least 50% (20 of 40 at least 12 inches). The old Rem 185 JHP did 95%, as did most of the 230 JHPs.

The lighter 9s did about 35%, the heavier 9s about 82.5% The lighter 357 Mags about 35%, the heavier up to 100%.

357SIG 125 Fed about 92.5%.

The 180/40s around 90%+, the 165 HS over 90%.

Through auto glass:

Speer 124/9 +P GD 13/.55
Speer 230/45 GD 11/.65
Speer 125/357S 13/.55

Fed 147/9 HS 11/.50
Fed 230/45 HS 12.8/.61

Win 147/9 RT 10.8/.52
Win 127/9 +P+ RT 9.4/.48
Win 230/45 RT 12/.58

Rem 147/9 GSB 12.1/.55
Rem 230/45 GSB 12.5/.63

45 ACP from a 5 inch 1911 through one (1) layer of denim into gel:

230 Gold Dot 14.8/.61
185 Gold Dot 15.7/.59
230 Fed JHP 16.1/.64

9mm from G17/19 through four (4) layers of denim into gel:

124 Hydra-Shok 15.7/.61
124 Gold Dot +P 14/.59
Fed 115 JHP 13/.64

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

I guess I have a fear of running out of ammo then.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIwlc6AfspI

[Warriorbird]

In the rare instances where I carry I carry 10+1. Even if I had 33 rounds "fire superiority" is easily established over a pistol with many other weapons.

[Gelston]

I guess I have a fear of running out of ammo then.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIwlc6AfspI

Luckily the US isn't WW2 Europe.

[kutter]

I guess I have a fear of running out of ammo then.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIwlc6AfspI

Ninja, you do know in that clip the german was carrying a 9mm luger and the 'Merican was carrying a .45 and look who was still standing :)

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

I just like the idea of trying to bean someone in the head with a .45 after I run out of rounds.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

In the rare instances where I carry I carry 10+1. Even if I had 33 rounds "fire superiority" is easily established over a pistol with many other weapons.


That's probably very, extremely shooter and range dependent. Obviously, I am going to have trouble fighting someone with an M-4 off at 200 meters using my Glock, but indoors it's not unrealistic.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Ninja, you do know in that clip the german was carrying a 9mm luger and the 'Merican was carrying a .45 and look who was still standing :)

Yes, I am aware. It's just one of my favorite movie scenes when it comes to showing someone running out of ammo. I think you should carry a steel helmet just in case you run out of .45 rounds. You can throw it at your target.

[kutter]

Yes, I am aware. It's just one of my favorite movie scenes when it comes to showing someone running out of ammo. I think you should carry a steel helmet just in case you run out of .45 rounds. You can throw it at your target.

I carry around a 1" box end wrench to throw! :spaz:

[kutter]

After it is all said and done, I will say that someone with a 9MM that goes to the range regularly is far more of a threat than some poser with a .45 that has put less than a box through his pistol.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

After it is all said and done, I will say that someone with a 9MM that goes to the range regularly is far more of a threat than some poser with a .45 that has put less than a box through his pistol.

Right. You don't want to find yourself firing at your enemy only to hit like 9 innocent bystanders behind him/her. Like NYPD.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Thread: choosing my next handgun....round 2.
Hey, how about you stop posting and huffing farts?

No. Go fuck yourself.

[Warriorbird]

Thread: choosing my next handgun....round 2.
Hey, how about you stop posting and huffing farts?

No. Go fuck yourself.

I think we found our resident NYPD poster.

[Back]

Thread: choosing my next handgun....round 2.
Hey, how about you stop posting and huffing farts?

No. Go fuck yourself.

Dude. You should be used to this kind of anonymous petty bullshit by now. Faceless reppers are like flys. Annoying but never a serious threat.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

NYPD shoots innocent bystanders. This is why you train and hit the range often.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/25/nypd-shooting-bystander-victims-hit-by-police-gunfire/

[loxe]

reviving an old thread.... Walther Arms now has NY compliant magazines for its PPQ M2, so i picked one up today at my local gun shop. (.40 s/w). early christmas present for me.

[Kerranger]

reviving an old thread.... Walther Arms now has NY compliant magazines for its PPQ M2, so i picked one up today at my local gun shop. (.40 s/w). early christmas present for me.

I have a Walther ppx 9mm and I love it.

[kutter]

Ok, since someone revived this thread, I am going to get into it as well. Anyone shot a Beretta Model 84? I am looking for a pistol for my wife and it seems a pretty good candidate so far. While I am not in love with a .380, with the proper round and training I feel it can get the job done at close range.

She is not a fan of any of my other pistols, mostly because she struggles to rack the slide. I thought about a hammerless .38 like a Taurus, but am just not that much of a revolver guy. Although, I would love a stainless Colt Python, but not almost $5K kind of love.

[loxe]

try the walther pk .380 my wife has arthritis in her hands but still finds she can rack the slide of this weapon with ease, and i have personally put over 1000 rounds through this gun, and have had no problems, and find it extremely accurate.

[kutter]

try the walther pk .380 my wife has arthritis in her hands but still finds she can rack the slide of this weapon with ease, and i have personally put over 1000 rounds through this gun, and have had no problems, and find it extremely accurate.

That is the other one I was looking at but I hate the thought of having to use a tool to breakdown a weapon.

[loxe]

that is the only drawback to this gun that i have found, but even then i have gotten used to it.
i just keep the tool in my gunsafe drawer for my .380 and after each trip to the range i come home clean it and put it back where i know it is.

[Androidpk]

Why get a handgun when you can have a modernized semi-automatic .30-06?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvEb4PzSfx0

[AnticorRifling]

I shot my uncle's Sig Nightmare last month, that will be my next pistol.

[Androidpk]

I shot my uncle's Sig Nightmare last month, that will be my next pistol.

What barrel length?

[AnticorRifling]

1911 full frame, I think 5inch barrel.

[Latrinsorm]

I shot my uncle's Sig Nightmare last month, that will be my next pistol.Is that what they're calling it these days?
What barrel length?I see.
5inch barrel.Poor guy.

[Taernath]

5 inches is the average length. Not everyone carries a .44 Magnum. In fact, most shooters say they prefer average sized weapons.

[Gelston]

5 inches is the average length. Not everyone carries a .44 Magnum. In fact, most shooters say they prefer average sized weapons.

He was talking about penises. Although your post could be construed that way too. IF YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYIN.

[Androidpk]

He was talking about penises. Although your post could be construed that way too. IF YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYIN.

No one wants an average sized barrel.

[Taernath]

He was talking about penises. Although your post could be construed that way too. IF YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYIN.

NO WAY DUDE I HAD NO IDEA

[Changeling]

I guess I shouldn't say that I like the feel of a .44 Magnum going off in my hands since I don't own one of my own, eh?

[loxe]

I shot my uncle's Sig Nightmare last month, that will be my next pistol.

friends dont let friends shoot sig

[Androidpk]

friends dont let friends shoot sig

Jack Bauer shoots sig.

[Warriorbird]

I shot my uncle's Sig Nightmare last month, that will be my next pistol.

Those look nice enough to potentially drive me out of the realm of handguns suited to my total lack of arm strength.

[Androidpk]

Those look nice enough to potentially drive me out of the realm of handguns suited to my total lack of arm strength.

Buy some barbells.

[loxe]

Shot the walther ppq today for the first time. Very impressed with the accuracy at 20, 30, 60 ft. It shot very comfortably. And not a single jam after 200 rounds.

[AnticorRifling]

friends dont let friends shoot sig

That's glock, friends don't let friends shoot glock.

[Thondalar]

That's glock, friends don't let friends shoot glock.

I've carried a glock 23 for years, and I'm very happy with it. With that being said, MY next handgun will most likely be http://www.fnhusa.com/l/products/handguns/five-seven/. Wanted one for a while, buddy has one and I like it.

[Androidpk]

That's glock, friends don't let friends shoot glock.

Those are terrible friends then.

[AnticorRifling]

Glocks are so overrated. I've never found one that's felt better to me than my Beretta(s).

[Androidpk]

They're reliable and resilient.

[Thondalar]

Glocks are so overrated. I've never found one that's felt better to me than my Beretta(s).

We just have different hands. I've never shot a Beretta I liked better than my 23, and I actually shot Berettas first.

[Gelston]

I used to think I liked Glocks, because they looked neat. Then I fired one. Don't like.

[Androidpk]

When it comes to looks I like the nighthawk and guncrafter 1911s. Sexy guns.

[Crime]

My first and only thus far, Colt Officer's ACP. c. 1984.

3.5" 45 ACP 1911 Blued.

Put Tridjicon night sites and ivory grips on it.

Nice stout gun.

[Wyrmx]

I love my 1911 - Dan Wesson (now CZ), great gun.

[Androidpk]

My first and only thus far, Colt Officer's ACP. c. 1984.

3.5" 45 ACP 1911 Blued.

Put Tridjicon night sites and ivory grips on it.

Nice stout gun.

Pics!

[Crime]

Pics!

This doesn't show the Tridgicon night sites, but does the job.

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af303/Undermoose/IvoryR_zps356653dc.jpg

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af303/Undermoose/IvoryL_zps5a75f96b.jpg

Previously it looked like this:

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af303/Undermoose/IMG_1758.jpg

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af303/Undermoose/IMG_1759.jpg

[Androidpk]

Nice. Do you carry concealed?

[Crime]

I have a crossbreed holster, but have never carried except to and from the range in a locked case.

[Androidpk]

Not a handgun but.. have any of you shot an M1A/M14?

[Latrinsorm]

I love my 1911 - Dan Wesson (now CZ), great gun.With that avatar you better switch to a Winchester, buster.

[Androidpk]

Not a handgun but.. have any of you shot an M1A/M14?

Anticor? Gelston?

[Gelston]

Anticor? Gelston?

Not in the military, but I've fired a few civilian model M14s (So yes, M1A).

[Androidpk]

Not in the military, but I've fired a few civilian model M14s.

And what did you think of them?

[Gelston]

And what did you think of them?

I liked them. Didn't fire tons of rounds, but they were alright.

[AnticorRifling]

Anticor? Gelston?

m1a garand yes, it was a good shoot, but I don't think I'd take it over my CZ 750.

[Gelston]

m1a garand yes, it was a good shoot, but I don't think I'd take it over my CZ 750.

I was actually about to join the CMP to buy a surplus M1 for 600 bones.

[Latrinsorm]

You're not polite enough to be a Mountie anyway.

[Taernath]

Anticor? Gelston?

I've fired an M14. What do you want to know, specifically? It's pretty heavy.

[Gelston]

They have an M1903A3 still in cosmoline up for auction. If only I wanted to blow 2 grand.

[Kerranger]

I almost bought the M1A Socom 16 at the Palmetto State Armory last weekend. They hard it marked up about 200 dollars more than what it normally goes for, though, so fuck that.

[Androidpk]

I've fired an M14. What do you want to know, specifically? It's pretty heavy.

Just general thoughts I suppose. Accuracy, recoil, ect. I haven't shot one yet but I love how they look.

[Gelston]

Just general thoughts I suppose. Accuracy, recoil, ect. I haven't shot one yet but I love how they look.

It is as accurate as the shooter.

[Androidpk]

The new BAR is cool looking too but pretty pricey at $5000.

http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/HCAR-3-440x202.jpg

[Kerranger]

7115

PTR-91. Made in South Carolina. 800-ish bucks.

[Androidpk]

7115

PTR-91. Made in South Carolina. 800-ish bucks.

Looks like a H&K G3.

[Taernath]

Just general thoughts I suppose. Accuracy, recoil, ect. I haven't shot one yet but I love how they look.

The one I fired was an old, beat up all wood deal with an ACOG on a mount. Like I mentioned earlier it's a lot heavier than an M16 (same with the ammo), so it's not something I'd really want to carry around for a long time. Recoil and kick is a lot harder, obviously, because it's 7.62. Then again, the M4/M16 barely have any so maybe it's just more noticeable. As far as accuracy I just used it for a few rounds of familiarization, I didn't actually carry it (we kept it in a tower overlooking a valley), but it's the basis for a series of DMRs and sniper rifles so it's good at what it does. The more modern EBRs I have no idea how they fire or carry, though I'd imagine they're better.

[Kerranger]

Looks like a H&K G3.

It is. They bought the tooling, plans and everything. It IS an HK, without the brand-name.

[Gelston]

The one I fired was an old, beat up all wood deal with an ACOG on a mount. Like I mentioned earlier it's a lot heavier than an M16 (same with the ammo), so it's not something I'd really want to carry around for a long time. Recoil and kick is a lot harder, obviously, because it's 7.62. Then again, the M4/M16 barely have any so maybe it's just more noticeable. As far as accuracy I just used it for a few rounds of familiarization, I didn't actually carry it (we kept it in a tower overlooking a valley), but it's the basis for a series of DMRs and sniper rifles so it's good at what it does. The more modern EBRs I have no idea how they fire or carry, though I'd imagine they're better.

heh, I was going to say it has more recoil than a 16, but like... Some pellet guns have more kick than a 16. I always used to hear the buffer spring and that's how I knew it actually fired.

[Androidpk]

I was expecting a lot of recoil when I first shot the m16. Talk about being surprised.

[Gelston]

I was expecting a lot of recoil when I first shot the m16. Talk about being surprised.

My Marlin bolt action .22LR had more. The M16's buffer obviously helps quite a bit though.