Good point to stop training in Religion Lore?

[GuildRat]

I have my level 65 cleric at 65 ranks of Religion Lore and 13 ranks of Blessings. That gets me 2 uses of Miracle per day. I know Religion increases the impact of some of the cleric spells, but, is it time to stop training in that and start working on Blessings?

Thanks.

[masterdtwin]

I have my level 65 cleric at 65 ranks of Religion Lore and 13 ranks of Blessings. That gets me 2 uses of Miracle per day. I know Religion increases the impact of some of the cleric spells, but, is it time to stop training in that and start working on Blessings?

Thanks.

The rate of infusion on smite/bane is approximately [(Religion Lore bonus)/10]% So basically, after 40 ranks it's a 10rank/1%. You can do more, but 40 ranks is a good place to stop unless you're looking for something else in particular.

Also, based on your total lore (78), you could very easily drop your religion lore to 40 ranks, pick up 15 summoning lore, add another 10 ranks to blessing lore, and you'd be 2 blessing lore ranks off from 75% chrisms.

I think when I was looking at it, something like 70-74 blessing ranks (I'd have to look at all the benefits again, but I'm a ways off yet) was what I felt was a good number to shoot for at cap.

The main thing is it all depends on what you're really interested in doing. If you bolt at all, summoning lore is definitely something to look into as well.

[Whirlin]

The main thing is it all depends on what you're really interested in doing. If you bolt at all, summoning lore is definitely something to look into as well.

This.
If you have no interest in chrisms, and only care about hunting potency, then it's likely you ought to continue in religion... Unless you also want to be a viable bolter, which is another question, as Twin said.

Check out carabele's lore site for likely the easiest way to analyze the lore ranks and their benefits:
http://carabele.com/LoreBenefits.htm

[GuildRat]

This.
If you have no interest in chrisms, and only care about hunting potency, then it's likely you ought to continue in religion... Unless you also want to be a viable bolter, which is another question, as Twin said.

Check out carabele's lore site for likely the easiest way to analyze the lore ranks and their benefits:
http://carabele.com/LoreBenefits.htm

I've dropped all spell aim so I hunt CS based only. I don't "vulture" but I do tend to raise on occasion. I'm not too concerned with whether my chrisms are top notch....so I take it that I should continue with Religion Lore training?

[masterdtwin]

I've dropped all spell aim so I hunt CS based only. I don't "vulture" but I do tend to raise on occasion. I'm not too concerned with whether my chrisms are top notch....so I take it that I should continue with Religion Lore training?

Yes.

[GuildRat]

Name: XXXXXXXXXX Race: Human Profession: Cleric (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 44 Expr: 3981552 Level: 65
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Constitution (CON): 85 (17) ... 85 (17)
Dexterity (DEX): 84 (17) ... 84 (17)
Agility (AGI): 78 (14) ... 78 (14)
Discipline (DIS): 86 (18) ... 86 (18)
Aura (AUR): 97 (23) ... 97 (23)
Logic (LOG): 86 (23) ... 86 (23)
Intuition (INT): 98 (29) ... 98 (29)
Wisdom (WIS): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Influence (INF): 61 (5) ... 61 (5)
Mana: 202

XXXXXXXX (at level 65), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Shield Use.........................| 167 67
Brawling...........................| 167 67
Physical Fitness...................| 145 45
Arcane Symbols.....................| 150 50
Magic Item Use.....................| 150 50
Harness Power......................| 166 66
Spirit Mana Control................| 140 40
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 62 13
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 165 65
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 96 22
Perception.........................| 120 30
Climbing...........................| 105 25
Swimming...........................| 105 25

Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 40

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 34

Spell Lists
Cleric.............................| 83

Any other thoughts, criticism or accolades would be appreciated.............. 35 ranks in armor to wear FGB...I find it worth it as I don't have the silver to get fulls that protect as well.

Thanks

[Whirlin]

I've dropped all spell aim so I hunt CS based only. I don't "vulture" but I do tend to raise on occasion. I'm not too concerned with whether my chrisms are top notch....so I take it that I should continue with Religion Lore training?

Less about them being top notch, and more about being able to create them. Because you'll need the 10 blessing, 15 summoning in order to be able to make even the 75% chrisms.

However, if you occasionally stock up, no real reason to worry about making your own, unless you have a bard alt available. Best just to explain to potential raise victims that you need to transfer the cost onto them... at a premium... for not having a chrism holder... those bastards!

But, if your main concern is hunting... religion is definitely the powerhouse lore.

I would recommend picking up 10 ranks in blessing whenever you have a chance, but only after reaching a /10 point on religion lore for 302 potency, but no later than level 80 or so. It changes 209 (untrammel) into a wearable buff that doubles your resistance to webs. If you decide to hunt OTF, it'll save your ass.

[Whirlin]

Any other thoughts, criticism or accolades would be appreciated.............. 35 ranks in armor to wear FGB...I find it worth it as I don't have the silver to get fulls that protect as well.

No reasons to wear fulls as a cleric. Doubles can be worn with no hindrance.

Although, if you're fine with the hindrance, and are happy with FGB, definitely stick with that. There's a lot of taboos around hindrance, but if you an deal with it... deal with it!

Only thing I see are PF and Perception are a little low. Bumping them up to 1x will help maneuver defenses. Now that you're mid 60s, there a lot less avoidable than they were pre-50.

[masterdtwin]

I would recommend picking up 10 ranks in blessing whenever you have a chance, but only after reaching a /10 point on religion lore for 302 potency, but no later than level 80 or so. It changes 209 (untrammel) into a wearable buff that doubles your resistance to webs. If you decide to hunt OTF, it'll save your ass.

This is a really good trick to know. What's the actual ranks required to do this? I know 75% chrisms are @25 blessing ranks

[GuildRat]

Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 62 13
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 165 65
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 96 22

I'm good on making chrisms, and I'm working on PF and Perception. Even if someone doesn't have a chrism I tend to use one anyhow as I stock up on them. OTF is my end goal and I know, from having a capped rogue at one point, what lies in store. Seems the consensus is, as a non-vulture, to work on Religion and get my PF and perception up to combat OTF.

Thanks for the help you guys!!

[masterdtwin]

Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 62 13
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 165 65
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 96 22

I'm good on making chrisms, and I'm working on PF and Perception. Even if someone doesn't have a chrism I tend to use one anyhow as I stock up on them. OTF is my end goal and I know, from having a capped rogue at one point, what lies in store. Seems the consensus is, as a non-vulture, to work on Religion and get my PF and perception up to combat OTF.

Thanks for the help you guys!!

Is there any reason you went for more than the 15 required summoning ranks? Also, at 13 blessing ranks you're running 60% chrisms which is still good.

[GuildRat]

Not really....just missed taking them down to minimum when I Fixskilled and dropped Spell Aim. I'll get the fixed eventually but it's not too much of a hinderance at this point.

[Whirlin]

This is a really good trick to know. What's the actual ranks required to do this? I know 75% chrisms are @25 blessing ranks

10 ranks of blessing for 209 to be a buff.

Without krakii access, I can't verify, but I'm fairly positive (like, 90% confident) that the buff is self-cast only.

He posted his skills while I was writing that up, so he already has the 10 blessing ranks. Those first 10 blessing ranks are pretty awesome, and buff a lot of stuff. But, if you're defenses are fine, and you're a CS hunter, there's no reason to worry about it too much.

209 buff is good to pick up early if you're planning on hunting the spider temple at lower levels, however, if you're not gonna be hunting anything that webs, it's just extra mana to use spelling up.

[GuildRat]

10 ranks of blessing for 209 to be a buff.

Without krakii access, I can't verify, but I'm fairly positive (like, 90% confident) that the buff is self-cast only.

He posted his skills while I was writing that up, so he already has the 10 blessing ranks. Those first 10 blessing ranks are pretty awesome, and buff a lot of stuff. But, if you're defenses are fine, and you're a CS hunter, there's no reason to worry about it too much.

209 buff is good to pick up early if you're planning on hunting the spider temple at lower levels, however, if you're not gonna be hunting anything that webs, it's just extra mana to use spelling up.


Agreed. I'll be working on PF and Perception and continue on with Religion Lore Training. I just wanted to see if there was a reason to stop and concentrate on the other lores and you guys have pretty much convinced me I'm on the right path.

[Jeril]

I'd actually suggest that you stop training lores for a while, you have a total of 100 spirit lore ranks and are likely better off putting points into spells to further increase your CS. I am too lazy to see where exactly your spirit spells are at but I'd suggest having 40 MnS and 40 MjS at 80 then quit training them and dump all your points into cleric spells. If you weren't shield/brawl I'd tell you to train them more because the added DS from them is nice but it shouldn't be something to worry about in your case.

[GuildRat]

I'd actually suggest that you stop training lores for a while, you have a total of 100 spirit lore ranks and are likely better off putting points into spells to further increase your CS. I am too lazy to see where exactly your spirit spells are at but I'd suggest having 40 MnS and 40 MjS at 80 then quit training them and dump all your points into cleric spells. If you weren't shield/brawl I'd tell you to train them more because the added DS from them is nice but it shouldn't be something to worry about in your case.

Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 40

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 34

Spell Lists
Cleric.............................| 83

Almost there...I'm training 1 Cleric and 1 MnS, up to 40 MnS, per train....I'm a bit over trained in cleric now and might just use the extra TPs from singling in spells to work on perception and PT for a couple of trains as Whirlin mentioned.

[masterdtwin]

Okay, so Tgo01 helped me out with a little script that would track smite/bane infusions.

I will be trying to collect data to see if we can get a more accurate guess for infusions (as opposed to bonus/10).

These results are with 30 religion lore ranks (120 bonus).

>showme stats
Total infusion counts: 57
Total Smite/Bane casts: 491
Percent chance: 11.609

When I get a larger sample size it will hopefully close in on the expected.

I plan on expanding it a little to include both infusions and instant-deaths (not crit-deaths) so we can determine how religion lore effects it.

[masterdtwin]

A bit more information...

I've added ";infuseme" to the script repository. This tracks both your infusions and instant-death kills. I've been running it since I fixed it up, although I've only gotten in one or two hunts. Here's my numbers so far since the changes:

R>showme stats
Total Smite/Bane casts: 207
Total infusion counts: 30
Percent chance: 14.493
Total instant death counts: 13
Percent chance: 6.280

[Whirlin]

I'll run it today as well... just hit Lumnis with my cleric, and only sitting at only 25 ranks....

Two datapoints is woefully insufficient to derive equations, but it should provide some insight. Especially since some mechanics, such as Bard Sonic Flare rate and MoC FvF adjustments, continue to adjust inter-break points... So like, while 10 may mitigate 1 foe, and 25 may mitigate the second, you're gonna see a 1/15th increase for each rank between 10 and 25, rather than a flat 1 until increasing to 2 at 25.

[masterdtwin]

I'm still thinking that I need more data, these numbers seem off... Not too far off mind you, I'd just like something a bit more accurate. Fortunately this is a LOT easier to gather data for than Tgo01's skinning woes.

Total Smite/Bane casts: 1041
Total infusion counts: 122
Percent chance: 11.720
Total instant death counts: 49
Percent chance: 4.707

[Tgo01]

:(

[Whirlin]

so... I've been running infuseme and boneme:

Total Smite/Bane casts: 777
Total infusion counts: 52
Percent chance: 6.692
Total instant death counts: 20
Percent chance: 2.574




Smite/Bane KIRAMON WORKER Stats
Total Casts: 684
Total Instant Death Casts: 26 (3.801%)
Total Death Crits (including instant death casts): 26 (3.801%)
Total Damage: 25487 (37 average per cast)

This has me confused.

[Tgo01]

This has me confused.

Clearly one of those scripts is a dirty, rotten liar!

I don't suppose there was another type of critter you were casting at in the boneme stats there?

[Tgo01]

Other possibilities include...

infumse doesn't take into account if you prepare bane then don't cast or release it and instead let the spell drift away by itself. This might fudge the stats.

infumse also doesn't take into account if you successfully warded the critter you're trying to cast at, just as long as you prepared bane and cast it it will count as a cast.

These oversights are actually my fault. I told you I hate writing scripts shortly after I wake up :/

[masterdtwin]

Other possibilities include...

infumse doesn't take into account if you prepare bane then don't cast or release it and instead let the spell drift away by itself. This might fudge the stats.

infumse also doesn't take into account if you successfully warded the critter you're trying to cast at, just as long as you prepared bane and cast it it will count as a cast.

These oversights are actually my fault. I told you I hate writing scripts shortly after I wake up :/

Very true, infuseme does neither of these. I'll pull some of the checks from boneme and try to update it tonight. Might not get done until tomorrow, I have to take my puppies to the vet tonight :(

[Whirlin]

Very true, infuseme does neither of these. I'll pull some of the checks from boneme and try to update it tonight. Might not get done until tomorrow, I have to take my puppies to the vet tonight :(

That would absolutely account for the difference... I think I'm at only +80 on my d100 roll.

I only have about 10k left on this level... I'll do some more testing as far as boneme versus infuseme, and then reset it when I level... Never know about a LDif evaluation in the unknown equation. But I'll be on Kiramon for a long while, so should be able to get a good amount of data to test the difference.

[masterdtwin]

That would absolutely account for the difference... I think I'm at only +80 on my d100 roll.

I only have about 10k left on this level... I'll do some more testing as far as boneme versus infuseme, and then reset it when I level... Never know about a LDif evaluation in the unknown equation. But I'll be on Kiramon for a long while, so should be able to get a good amount of data to test the difference.

I'm on moor hounds/eagles/witches, and was planning on switching to Kiramon after. So... What's their TD like, and what's your CS like?

[Whirlin]

Workers (lvl40)have 142, Defenders (48) have 182 TD. I'm sitting at 180 CS at level 39... I think.

They also have a CMAN knockdown/stun that hits limbs, and is typically non-fatal. Wearing doubles, I usually don't get beyond bleeders after being hit a few times, regardless of damage. I use a Runestaff, and just channel from guarded, so my DS is fine, even if I'm on the ground, stunned.

[masterdtwin]

Workers (lvl40)have 142, Defenders (48) have 182 TD. I'm sitting at 180 CS at level 39... I think.

They also have a CMAN knockdown/stun that hits limbs, and is typically non-fatal. Wearing doubles, I usually don't get beyond bleeders after being hit a few times, regardless of damage. I use a Runestaff, and just channel from guarded, so my DS is fine, even if I'm on the ground, stunned.

I might have to move earlier than I expected. My CS at 39 (maybe 40, I forgot), is 204. I use a large shield and channel in offensive. My DS is something like 350 in offensive. Granted I also have full wizard spells available to me anytime. Right now I'm using full leathers, but switching to doubles once I finish enchanting them.

[Whirlin]

190... I have a 190 CS...

Dwarf cleric with stats placed entirely for growth, so I only have a 69 WIS at the moment.

Also 2x lores, so, that's quite a few research ranks gone.

[masterdtwin]

190... I have a 190 CS...

Dwarf cleric with stats placed entirely for growth, so I only have a 69 WIS at the moment.

Also 2x lores, so, that's quite a few research ranks gone.

Sylvan Cleric, 100 wisdom, 70 lores (When I hit 55, I'll be at 2x, just to get 100% chrisms, then I'm stopping). I also am not going past 1x on cleric spells unlike most people seem to want to do. Either way, using bigshot makes it so efficient that having a lower CS is still perfectly viable.

Also, since you're using a runestave compared to my shield, you're probably higher on the spell count than I am. I'm currently just over 2x, with 86 spells. I'm also 2x in FA.

[Whirlin]

I might have to move earlier than I expected. My CS at 39 (maybe 40, I forgot), is 204. I use a large shield and channel in offensive. My DS is something like 350 in offensive. Granted I also have full wizard spells available to me anytime. Right now I'm using full leathers, but switching to doubles once I finish enchanting them.

Sylvan Cleric, 100 WIS:
+25 CS from WIS
Level 39:
+117 from Level
2x spells = 86 Spell Ranks, but we'll say 40/23/23 since you said 1x cleric ranks... but, I'd be surprised if you didn't hit 340, just 'cause
+40 CS from Cleric
13/3+1 = 5.33 for non-cleric circles = 6
Two non-cleric circles at 20 ranks:
+12 CS from other circles

25 + 117 + 40 + 12 = 194 CS

Compared to my 190 at level 39, as a Dwarf with 69 WIS for +9 CS from stats. I'm at 82 Lores ranks, which means the additional over 2x spells yielded +12 CS, which hasn't been enough to compensate for the reduced initial stats. But hardly as big of a difference as both originally quoted.

[Geijon Khyree]

Religion benefits > Divine Fury, Divine Wrath, Holy Bolt, Smite/Bane, Blinding to force kneeling, extra miracle cast

Blessing benefits > self-cast spells become group at high training, additional AS boosters for swingers, 100% chrisms at 65 ranks.

My cleric is a weapon user and even I have to agree Religion looks superior.

[Geijon Khyree]

Level 34 Cleric. Voln. I am building him as a combat cleric and I've played a Warmage to about 60th. Spiritual Lore is a good question since I'm building him for blessing and chrism usage. It will probably start to stunt his CS going forward, but it's somewhat in line with the thread topic.

Lores in general usually come at a sacrifice. Here is some additional content as to why. Current goal is to move Religion to 25 ranks to meet the chrism minimum then shift to Blessing to the 75-80% chrism gem at 31 ranks at the likely sacrifice of some additional spell levels. His spell training currently is at 2.35

You channel at a ghostly pooka.
A scintillating, blue-white aura encompasses a ghostly pooka.
CS: +156 - TD: +119 + CvA: +25 + d100: +50 == +112
Warding failed!
Small globes of blue-white energy crash into a ghostly pooka, causing small bruises to form.
The ghostly pooka is hit for 9 points of damage!

5x True White Ora (Strength, Symbol of Courage, Heroism, Benediction, Bravery)

You swing a thick-bladed white ora falchion at a ghostly pooka!
AS: +289 vs DS: +126 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +81 = +278
... and hit for 123 points of damage!
Mighty blow rips through the ghostly pooka's chest, causing it to pause as it reforms.

** A peal of thunder cracks from your white ora falchion as pure white light streams forth to surround the ghostly pooka, assaulting it with flames of white-hot fury! **
... 25 points of damage!
A strong blow bursts the left calf open in a spray of vapor.
New muscle erupts from the middle of the wound, consuming the injured tissue.

XXX (at level 34), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 20 4
Shield Use.........................| 5 1
Combat Maneuvers...................| 132 36
Edged Weapons......................| 132 36
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25
Arcane Symbols.....................| 35 7
Magic Item Use.....................| 35 7
Spell Aiming.......................| 120 30
Harness Power......................| 128 34
Spirit Mana Control................| 120 30
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 58 12
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 58 12
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 70 15
Perception.........................| 5 1
Climbing...........................| 5 1
Swimming...........................| 5 1

Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 25

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 30

Spell Lists
Cleric.............................| 25
Roundtime: 5 sec.

Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 81 (20) ... 83 (21)
Constitution (CON): 81 (15) ... 81 (15)
Dexterity (DEX): 92 (21) ... 92 (21)
Agility (AGI): 88 (19) ... 88 (19)
Discipline (DIS): 78 (14) ... 78 (14)
Aura (AUR): 88 (19) ... 90 (20)
Logic (LOG): 78 (19) ... 78 (19)
Intuition (INT): 64 (12) ... 66 (13)
Wisdom (WIS): 68 (9) ... 72 (11)
Influence (INF): 74 (12) ... 74 (12)
Mana: 102 Silver: 0

[masterdtwin]

Sylvan Cleric, 100 WIS:
+25 CS from WIS
Level 39:
+117 from Level
2x spells = 86 Spell Ranks, but we'll say 40/23/23 since you said 1x cleric ranks... but, I'd be surprised if you didn't hit 340, just 'cause
+40 CS from Cleric
13/3+1 = 5.33 for non-cleric circles = 6
Two non-cleric circles at 20 ranks:
+12 CS from other circles

25 + 117 + 40 + 12 = 194 CS

Compared to my 190 at level 39, as a Dwarf with 69 WIS for +9 CS from stats. I'm at 82 Lores ranks, which means the additional over 2x spells yielded +12 CS, which hasn't been enough to compensate for the reduced initial stats. But hardly as big of a difference as both originally quoted.

I think you're off just a little there... First off, I am level 40 now (double checked last night).

Sylvan Cleric, 100 WIS:
+25 CS from WIS
Level 40:
+120 from Level
40 cleric spells
+40 CS from Cleric
25 Mjs
((25-1)/3)+1 = 9
22 Mns
((22-1)/3)+1 = 8
+17 CS from other circles

25 + 120 + 40 + 17 = 202 CS

I don't remember 100% for sure, but I think I have a +5 wisdom enhancive, which would account for the 2CS difference.

[Whirlin]

I think you're off just a little there... First off, I am level 40 now (double checked last night).

Sylvan Cleric, 100 WIS:
+25 CS from WIS
Level 40:
+120 from Level
40 cleric spells
+40 CS from Cleric
25 Mjs
((25-1)/3)+1 = 9
22 Mns
((22-1)/3)+1 = 8
+17 CS from other circles

25 + 120 + 40 + 17 = 202 CS

I don't remember 100% for sure, but I think I have a +5 wisdom enhancive, which would account for the 2CS difference.
Yep, Did 1/3rd for 1/3rd on secondary circles rather than up to 2/3rds of your current level for 1/3 CS growth.

Although, no idea what you're doing with (25-1/3)+1. Should just be a straight roundup(25/3), since 2/3rds of 40 ends up being 26, which you're below on both cases. Still ends up being 9/8 as you calculated... just challenging method, not result.

[masterdtwin]

Okay, First off - Infuseme has been updated.

Unfortunately I didn't get internet access till a little while ago because Time Warner hates me.

Also, on my CS, totally wrong on pretty much all accounts

Wisdom bonus = +28 (+6 Stat enhancive)
Level 40 = +120
Spells 40/25/21
Clerical (40) = +40
Mjs (25) = 1/3(circle<=26), (25/3) = 8.3, rounded to 9
Mns (21) = 1/3(circle<=26), (21/3) = 7

Add them up, 28+120+40+9+7=204

Hurray, a few days later we have learned to do basic math correctly!


You channel at a moor witch.
A sickly, violet haze encompasses a moor witch.
CS: +204 - TD: +124 + CvA: +25 + d100: +16 == +121
Warding failed!
A triad of ebony orbs conjoined by crackling ribbons of violet energy suddenly appear out of nowhere. The pulsating orbs take up a position directly in front of the moor witch, and slowly begin to move apart, stopping when they form a triangular shape of equal height to the creature. Encasing the witch within this framework, the triangle begins to rotate with tremendous speed, binding the witch with a cocoon of energy ribbons. A blur of violet and black obscures a moor witch from view and as mysteriously as the orbs appeared, they fade away.
All that remains of the witch is a charred ashen figure of its former self lying upon the ground.
The very powerful look leaves a moor witch.
The white light leaves a moor witch.
A moor witch glances around, looking a bit less confident.
The deep blue glow leaves a moor witch.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around a moor witch.
The powerful look leaves a moor witch.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

Also infuseme from a hunt:

>showme stats
Total Successful Smite/Bane casts: 95

Total infusion counts: 16
Percent chance: 16.8421

Total instant death counts: 8
Percent chance: 8.4211

[Whirlin]

Okay, First off - Infuseme has been updated.

Unfortunately I didn't get internet access till a little while ago because Time Warner hates me.

Also, on my CS, totally wrong on pretty much all accounts

Wisdom bonus = +28 (+6 Stat enhancive)
Level 40 = +120
Spells 40/25/21
Clerical (40) = +40
Mjs (25) = 1/3(circle<=26), (25/3) = 8.3, rounded to 9
Mns (21) = 1/3(circle<=26), (21/3) = 7

Add them up, 28+120+40+9+7=204

Hurray, a few days later we have learned to do basic math correctly!


You channel at a moor witch.
A sickly, violet haze encompasses a moor witch.
CS: +204 - TD: +124 + CvA: +25 + d100: +16 == +121
Warding failed!
A triad of ebony orbs conjoined by crackling ribbons of violet energy suddenly appear out of nowhere. The pulsating orbs take up a position directly in front of the moor witch, and slowly begin to move apart, stopping when they form a triangular shape of equal height to the creature. Encasing the witch within this framework, the triangle begins to rotate with tremendous speed, binding the witch with a cocoon of energy ribbons. A blur of violet and black obscures a moor witch from view and as mysteriously as the orbs appeared, they fade away.
All that remains of the witch is a charred ashen figure of its former self lying upon the ground.
The very powerful look leaves a moor witch.
The white light leaves a moor witch.
A moor witch glances around, looking a bit less confident.
The deep blue glow leaves a moor witch.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around a moor witch.
The powerful look leaves a moor witch.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

Also infuseme from a hunt:

>showme stats
Total Successful Smite/Bane casts: 95

Total infusion counts: 16
Percent chance: 16.8421

Total instant death counts: 8
Percent chance: 8.4211

Sounds good. I'll hit 40, and start running the new infuseme.

[masterdtwin]

>showme stats
Total Successful Smite/Bane casts: 535

Total infusion counts: 64
Percent chance: 11.9626

Total instant death counts: 34
Percent chance: 6.3551

At 30 ranks, it's starting to look a whole lot like the [religion lore bonus/10]% rule is incredibly accurate.

[GuildRat]

You channel at an emaciated hierophant.
A sickly, violet haze encompasses an emaciated hierophant.
The dull golden nimbus surrounding an emaciated hierophant suddenly begins to glow brightly.
CS: +334 - TD: +279 + CvA: +20 + d100: +72 == +147
Warding failed!
The violet haze rapidly swirls around the hierophant, sparking with pockets of chaotic, plasma energy.
The emaciated hierophant is hit for 34 points of damage!
... 15 points of damage!
Dazzling arc of energy traces blackened path across the emaciated hierophant's back!
The emaciated hierophant is stunned!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

Abruptly, you sense the attention of your spirit slayer focus upon an emaciated hierophant. The pattern of your spell is wrested away from you as the mote of white light flares with blinding brilliance.

A sickly, violet haze encompasses an emaciated hierophant.
The dull golden nimbus surrounding an emaciated hierophant suddenly begins to glow brightly.
CS: +364 - TD: +279 + CvA: +20 + d100: +19 == +124
Warding failed!
The violet haze quickly swirls around the hierophant, and the velocity causes large pieces of an emaciated hierophant's skin to peel off.
The emaciated hierophant is hit for 28 points of damage!
... 30 points of damage!
The emaciated hierophant's eye blackens and pops leaving a smoking hole behind!


A sickly, violet haze encompasses an emaciated hierophant.
The dull golden nimbus surrounding an emaciated hierophant suddenly begins to glow brightly.
CS: +364 - TD: +279 + CvA: +20 + d100: +17 == +122
Warding failed!
The violet haze quickly swirls around the hierophant, and the velocity causes large pieces of an emaciated hierophant's skin to peel off.
The emaciated hierophant is hit for 32 points of damage!
... 10 points of damage!
A curling tongue of blue flame sears the skin on the emaciated hierophant's stomach.


A sickly, violet haze encompasses an emaciated hierophant.
The dull golden nimbus surrounding an emaciated hierophant suddenly begins to glow brightly.
CS: +364 - TD: +279 + CvA: +20 + d100: +30 == +135
Warding failed!
The violet haze rapidly swirls around the hierophant, sparking with pockets of chaotic, plasma energy.
The emaciated hierophant is hit for 31 points of damage!
... 20 points of damage!
Skin blasted away leaving exposed and bloody muscle!


A sickly, violet haze encompasses an emaciated hierophant.
The dull golden nimbus surrounding an emaciated hierophant suddenly begins to glow brightly.
CS: +364 - TD: +279 + CvA: +20 + d100: +12 == +117
Warding failed!
The violet haze eddies and swirls around the hierophant, lashing out at an emaciated hierophant's skin with ethereal tendrils.
The emaciated hierophant is hit for 22 points of damage!
... 10 points of damage!
Plasma lashes the emaciated hierophant's shield arm blistering flesh.
>
An emaciated hierophant gestures, cracked lips moving in silent prayer as she focuses, shaking the stun.

I love what Religion Lore does for Spirit Slayer. Four extra attacks is the bomb y'all.

[Jeril]

The chance of triple and quadruple strikes is inversely related to the spell level.

So, you getting a third and fourth cast have nothing to do with religion lore.

[GuildRat]

The chance of triple and quadruple strikes is inversely related to the spell level.

So, you getting a third and fourth cast have nothing to do with religion lore.

Bah....you just rained on my one man parade!! But good to know. Thanks.

[Whirlin]

>showme stats
Total Successful Smite/Bane casts: 535

Total infusion counts: 64
Percent chance: 11.9626

Total instant death counts: 34
Percent chance: 6.3551

At 30 ranks, it's starting to look a whole lot like the [religion lore bonus/10]% rule is incredibly accurate.

There may be a level based component... I know you were hunting the moor stuff. I've been hunting Kiramon, at Level+1, and here are my stats at only 25 religion ranks:




Total Successful Smite/Bane casts: 1438

Total infusion counts: 94
Percent chance: 6.5369

Total instant death counts: 31
Percent chance: 2.1558


I'll need to test for redundancies in counts/etc... but, there shouldn't be THAT big of a gap for only 5 ranks, unless there's a level adjustment... in my opinion anyway.

[Whirlin]

Ended level 39:



Boneme:
Smite/Bane KIRAMON WORKER Stats
Total Casts: 1202
Total Instant Death Casts: 37 (3.078%)
Total Death Crits (including instant death casts): 37 (3.078%)
Total Damage: 44882 (37 average per cast)

Infuseme:
(I dont think I ever did a reset on this... so values are F'ed up)


Total Successful Smite/Bane casts: 1678

Total infusion counts: 112
Percent chance: 6.6746

Total instant death counts: 39
Percent chance: 2.3242


Judging my the TWO datapoints we have... It looks like infusing rate is approximately 2x Instant-death rate, and that there is likely a level-based adjustment.

I'm gonna go ahead and assume that my actual death rate is closer to the 3% that Boneme calculated.

[masterdtwin]

Judging my the TWO datapoints we have... It looks like infusing rate is approximately 2x Instant-death rate, and that there is likely a level-based adjustment.

I'm gonna go ahead and assume that my actual death rate is closer to the 3% that Boneme calculated.

Something definitely seems wrong with what we're trying to figure out. There is still supposed to be a base 5% crit to 302, regardless of anything else. Basically There's definitely something that we're missing.

Question #1, have you downloaded the newest infuseme (remember the calculation errors we talked about that were seriously skewing results?)

Question #2, I'm curious about the warding margin possibly being the culprit, as opposed to the level difference. I might do some changes to infuseme to add in some trackers for both 1% fails and margin ward failures. Perhaps that will help shed some light on the issue.

Either way, with the information we have now - We know something is up and odd, so at least thats somewhere to start investigating.

[masterdtwin]

Okay, I think I just had a bit of an epiphany. Or at least a thought on something we may not have considered.

When I'm killing things: Offensive Stance, Open right hand (shield), and Channeling.

If I remember correctly, you said that you were channeling in guarded, with a runestaff.

Things we do know - Open handed, Stance, and channel/cast - all effect damage output. Is it possible that those are the major contributing factors we have not considered?

[Riltus]

These are from voln favor research logs. Cleric lvl 36/37, SL Religion: 15 ranks (70 skill), vs. pookas

N = 2631
Infusions = 174
Instant Deaths = 133

Infusion% = Infusions/(N - Instant deaths)


174/(2498) = 6.96%

Instant Death% = ID/N


(133/2631) = 5.05%

Mark

[Whirlin]

Something definitely seems wrong with what we're trying to figure out. There is still supposed to be a base 5% crit to 302, regardless of anything else. Basically There's definitely something that we're missing.

Question #1, have you downloaded the newest infuseme (remember the calculation errors we talked about that were seriously skewing results?)

I think I downloaded the newest infuseme halfway through the level, but didn't reset my data. That's as far as infusion counts go. I think Boneme is fine on Instant Death counts.


Question #2, I'm curious about the warding margin possibly being the culprit, as opposed to the level difference. I might do some changes to infuseme to add in some trackers for both 1% fails and margin ward failures. Perhaps that will help shed some light on the issue.

Either way, with the information we have now - We know something is up and odd, so at least thats somewhere to start investigating.
Potentially... as I mentioned, I'm not even casting hit capped. However, I believe the results from immolation testing showed no correlation between endroll and instant-death, so I doubt 302 would function drastically differently.


Okay, I think I just had a bit of an epiphany. Or at least a thought on something we may not have considered.

When I'm killing things: Offensive Stance, Open right hand (shield), and Channeling.

If I remember correctly, you said that you were channeling in guarded, with a runestaff.

Things we do know - Open handed, Stance, and channel/cast - all effect damage output. Is it possible that those are the major contributing factors we have not considered?

Yes, once you start hunting Kiramon, we can evaluate the differences


These are from voln favor research logs. Cleric lvl 36/37, SL Religion: 15 ranks (70 skill), vs. pookas

N = 2631
Infusions = 174
Instant Deaths = 133

Infusion% = Infusions/(N - Instant deaths)


174/(2498) = 6.96%

Instant Death% = ID/N


(133/2631) = 5.05%

Mark

N = hits, or casts?

[Riltus]

N = hits, or casts?

N = hits (warding failed)

This is pretty clean data.

I haven't observed any correlation between ER and instant death/infusion percentages. Extreme underhunting won't improve success rates either. Not sure if target, greater than caster level, is a factor.


Mark

[Whirlin]

N = hits (warding failed)

This is pretty clean date.

I haven't observed any correlation between ER and instant death/infusion percentages. Extreme underhunting won't improve success rates either. Not sure if target, greater than caster level, is a factor.


Mark

Well, since I just hit 40, and am hunting @level critters, we'll see!

[masterdtwin]

I think I downloaded the newest infuseme halfway through the level, but didn't reset my data. That's as far as infusion counts go. I think Boneme is fine on Instant Death counts.

That's debatable. The main reason I started infuseme was because boneme wasn't tracking instant-deaths properly. There's an updated version of boneme that has the correct tracking line for instant-deaths. It's possible that they are both wrong if you haven't updated and reset.


Potentially... as I mentioned, I'm not even casting hit capped. However, I believe the results from immolation testing showed no correlation between endroll and instant-death, so I doubt 302 would function drastically differently.

Based on your previous response I'm hesitant to start adding this into consideration. I do believe we need new information to verify our data collection.


Yes, once you start hunting Kiramon, we can evaluate the differences

Give me about 30k, I think maybe less. I want to hit 41 before I start there.


N = hits, or casts?

This... This is why I made a pretty layout for infuseme... So there wasn't any of this confusion about what is what. And yes - I realize the person was pulling it from old logs, I think infuseme is a better collection method though (once we work out any remaining bugs).

[Tgo01]

That's debatable. The main reason I started infuseme was because boneme wasn't tracking instant-deaths properly. There's an updated version of boneme that has the correct tracking line for instant-deaths. It's possible that they are both wrong if you haven't updated and reset.

Wait just a minute there, mister. I fixed boneme tracking bane instant death stats before you made infuseme.

AAARRRGGGHHHH.

The problem with boneme is it wasn't tracking bane instant death casts at all. If the script is now tracking them then it should be tracking them properly. The only problem could be if you didn't reset the data before you downloaded the latest version.

[masterdtwin]

Wait just a minute there, mister. I fixed boneme tracking bane instant death stats before you made infuseme.

AAARRRGGGHHHH.

The problem with boneme is it wasn't tracking bane instant death casts at all. If the script is now tracking them then it should be tracking them properly. The only problem could be if you didn't reset the data before you downloaded the latest version.

That's what I was referring to. He already stated he didn't reset his infuseme stats, is him not resetting his boneme stats such a stretch?

[Tgo01]

That's what I was referring to. He already stated he didn't reset his infuseme stats, is him not resetting his boneme stats such a stretch?

Yes!

[masterdtwin]

Yes!

Poppycock!

[Whirlin]

Maybe if you guys did stuff right the first time, there wouldn't be any issues!

Geeze, I need to write my own damn scripts!

[Whirlin]

These gathered statistics are pretty sad:



showme stats
Total Successful Smite/Bane casts: 399

Total infusion counts: 29
Percent chance: 7.2682

Total instant death counts: 6
Percent chance: 1.5038


Death count mirrored in boneme

[Tgo01]

Hmm. Is the messaging always the same for an instant death cast for smite/bane? Or is there like a second message option?

[Whirlin]

I dunno... when I script hunt with my low level cleric... it's because I don't want to be paying that close attention.

If I wanted to be paying more attention, I'd script hunt my bard.

If I wanted to play, I'd hunt with my mage.


But I guess I could watch for a bit.

[masterdtwin]

I dunno... when I script hunt with my low level cleric... it's because I don't want to be paying that close attention.

If I wanted to be paying more attention, I'd script hunt my bard.

If I wanted to play, I'd hunt with my mage.


But I guess I could watch for a bit.

To be fair, the changes to boneme and infuseme tracking were based off the messaging I received from both my infusions and instant-death procs. It is entirely possible that we need to add in some changes to include various messaging from the difference between smite/bane and possibly variations from diety specific messaging.

[Lady Lightning]

So neither boneme or showme are tracking bane? I'd be interested to see how I fare.

[Whirlin]

To be fair, the changes to boneme and infuseme tracking were based off the messaging I received from both my infusions and instant-death procs. It is entirely possible that we need to add in some changes to include various messaging from the difference between smite/bane and possibly variations from diety specific messaging.

Infusions seem to be tracking adequately for me, at around 7%ish, which isn't beyond the realm of reasonableness.

It's just those instant-death procs. Did you have two different messages for your instant-death procs when you put the script together?

... I still haven't logged in with my cleric to hunt since the last post.

[masterdtwin]

Infusions seem to be tracking adequately for me, at around 7%ish, which isn't beyond the realm of reasonableness.

I do actually consider this to be somewhat unreasonable. I have only 5 ranks more than you, but I have almost a 5% higher infusion rate based on my testing. As I said, part of it could very well be what we are hunting, a well as the warding margin difference between you and I.


It's just those instant-death procs. Did you have two different messages for your instant-death procs when you put the script together?

Yes, and no. Originally when Tgo01 made boneme, I'm not certain what messaging he tracked - but it did not properly track my instant-death kills. I asked him about it, and he modified it based on the messaging I gave him. Additionally, infuseme was based on that same messaging. Meaning a) The original messaging he used was legitimate, and the messaging is based on dieties (smite/bane) and/or ranks (messaging changes with more ranks) or b) The original messaging was possibly accurate but the coding needs to be modified to ensure we accurately track minor inconsistencies.

Unfortunately, without logs and tracks of exactly what messaging everyone is seeing for both infusions and instant death hits - I cannot accurately modify it. So... Please provide me with that information... I will love you long time...


... I still haven't logged in with my cleric to hunt since the last post.

Neither have I, actually I've been pretty busy since last week - so hopefully I will have some time tonight or at the very least this weekend.


So neither boneme or showme are tracking bane? I'd be interested to see how I fare.

Actually, my cleric is of Goseana, so it is most definitely tracking bane. The changes to boneme were also again based on my cleric, so the line it is looking for should be identical, or near identical. Also, it's infuseme - showme is the command :P

[Riltus]

There are 9 unique messages for Smite. I don't have the bane messaging. A message may be slightly modified based on the target. For example, #7 below, if the target was a skeletal lord, would be

'Multiple rays of blue-white energy ignite several patches of a skeletal lord's calcified bones in a blaze of energy.

I suspect that bane will have a similar messaging pattern. Also messaging is not deity specific AFAIK.

SMITE MESSAGING:

1. Infusion

With a sudden burst of divine insight, you're able to amplify the power of your Smite spell!

2. Instant death

A minuscule blue-white star slowly ascends from the floor directly under the ghostly pooka, blinking in and out of existence as it passes through the pooka's skin. Upon reaching its apex just above the pooka, the star explodes in a brilliant display of sound and light. Tiny sparks of energy shower down upon a ghostly pooka, causing the pooka to writhe in agony as her entire being is covered in a brilliant white glow.

The following are listed from lowest to highest damage with each representing a range of endrolls. Note that the endrolls and damage corresponding to the message has some variability.

3. Prismatic shards of blue-white energy shatter against a ghostly pooka, inflicting moderate wounds.

4. A pinpoint of blue-white energy traces its way along a ghostly pooka's skin, leaving a blackened line in its wake.

5. A cascade of blue-white energy waves buffets a ghostly pooka.

6. An explosion of blue-white energy near a ghostly pooka consumes the surrounding area with a blinding light.

7. Multiple rays of blue-white energy ignite several patches of a ghostly pooka's skin in a blaze of energy.

8. Large wisps of blue-white energy lash out at a ghostly pooka, cauterizing the impact marks on the skin in an instant.

9. A massive beam of blue-white energy engulfs a ghostly pooka in a luminous column of light!

If you wanted to track the number of smite infusions you could use 'divine insight' and for instant deaths 'star explodes' as key words.


Mark

[masterdtwin]

Thanks Riltus...

Just to clarify, there is only one infusion and Instant death message for smite, correct? The infusion line appears to be identical to the bane one (with the exception of the name). The instant-death line is completely different however, so I will have to add it in to ensure that it starts tracking both properly.


If you wanted to track the number of smite infusions you could use 'divine insight' and for instant deaths 'star explodes' as key words.

Using key words isn't all that effective, we try to capture as much of the text as possible to ensure accuracy. But the messaging is a huge help.

[Riltus]

Thanks Riltus...

Just to clarify, there is only one infusion and Instant death message for smite, correct?

Correct. Only one message for each.

Mark

[Tgo01]

There are 9 unique messages for Smite. I don't have the bane messaging. A message may be slightly modified based on the target. For example, #7 below, if the target was a skeletal lord, would be

'Multiple rays of blue-white energy ignite several patches of a skeletal lord's calcified bones in a blaze of energy.

I suspect that bane will have a similar messaging pattern. Also messaging is not deity specific AFAIK.

SMITE MESSAGING:

1. Infusion

With a sudden burst of divine insight, you're able to amplify the power of your Smite spell!

2. Instant death

A minuscule blue-white star slowly ascends from the floor directly under the ghostly pooka, blinking in and out of existence as it passes through the pooka's skin. Upon reaching its apex just above the pooka, the star explodes in a brilliant display of sound and light. Tiny sparks of energy shower down upon a ghostly pooka, causing the pooka to writhe in agony as her entire being is covered in a brilliant white glow.

The following are listed from lowest to highest damage with each representing a range of endrolls. Note that the endrolls and damage corresponding to the message has some variability.

3. Prismatic shards of blue-white energy shatter against a ghostly pooka, inflicting moderate wounds.

4. A pinpoint of blue-white energy traces its way along a ghostly pooka's skin, leaving a blackened line in its wake.

5. A cascade of blue-white energy waves buffets a ghostly pooka.

6. An explosion of blue-white energy near a ghostly pooka consumes the surrounding area with a blinding light.

7. Multiple rays of blue-white energy ignite several patches of a ghostly pooka's skin in a blaze of energy.

8. Large wisps of blue-white energy lash out at a ghostly pooka, cauterizing the impact marks on the skin in an instant.

9. A massive beam of blue-white energy engulfs a ghostly pooka in a luminous column of light!

If you wanted to track the number of smite infusions you could use 'divine insight' and for instant deaths 'star explodes' as key words.


Mark

Ahh, didn't realize there were so many death messages for the same spell. Eesh.

I think capturing this messaging should work though, yes?

Upon reaching its apex just above .* the star explodes in a brilliant display of sound and light

Is that messaging used in all of the instant death casts?

[masterdtwin]

Ahh, didn't realize there were so many death messages for the same spell. Eesh.

I think capturing this messaging should work though, yes?

Upon reaching its apex just above .* the star explodes in a brilliant display of sound and light

Is that messaging used in all of the instant death casts?

The messaging for infusion is identical between Smite/Bane, except for the name of the spell.

There are separate messages for instant-death - one for Smite, one for Bane - but there is only one for each.

[Tgo01]

There are separate messages for instant-death - one for Smite, one for Bane - but there is only one for each.

Oh I thought Mark said there were 9 :/

[Riltus]

Ahh, didn't realize there were so many death messages for the same spell. Eesh.

I think capturing this messaging should work though, yes?

Upon reaching its apex just above .* the star explodes in a brilliant display of sound and light

Is that messaging used in all of the instant death casts?

One instant death, one infusion and seven hierarchical damage messages.

Bane instant death messaging begins with this sentence.

A triad of ebony orbs conjoined by crackling ribbons of violet energy suddenly appear out of nowhere.

Initially, there was a typo in the bane messaging < cojoined>.

Mark

[Tgo01]

One instant death, one infusion and seven hierarchical damage messages.

Bane instant death messaging begins with this sentence.

A triad of ebony orbs conjoined by crackling ribbons of violet energy suddenly appear out of nowhere.

Initially, there was a typo in the bane messaging < cojoined>.

Mark

Am I right that this is how the instant death messaging works for smite:

It always starts with this part:

A minuscule blue-white star slowly ascends from the floor directly under the ghostly pooka, blinking in and out of existence as it passes through the pooka's skin. Upon reaching its apex just above the pooka, the star explodes in a brilliant display of sound and light.

Then it could be one of 7 other messages that follow it, so the messages could look like this:

A minuscule blue-white star slowly ascends from the floor directly under the ghostly pooka, blinking in and out of existence as it passes through the pooka's skin. Upon reaching its apex just above the pooka, the star explodes in a brilliant display of sound and light. Tiny sparks of energy shower down upon a ghostly pooka, causing the pooka to writhe in agony as her entire being is covered in a brilliant white glow.

Or this:

A minuscule blue-white star slowly ascends from the floor directly under the ghostly pooka, blinking in and out of existence as it passes through the pooka's skin. Upon reaching its apex just above the pooka, the star explodes in a brilliant display of sound and light. Prismatic shards of blue-white energy shatter against a ghostly pooka, inflicting moderate wounds.

But the:

A minuscule blue-white star slowly ascends from the floor directly under the ghostly pooka, blinking in and out of existence as it passes through the pooka's skin. Upon reaching its apex just above the pooka, the star explodes in a brilliant display of sound and light.

is always the same?

[Riltus]

Am I right that this is how the instant death messaging works for smite:

It always starts with this part:

A minuscule blue-white star slowly ascends from the floor directly under the ghostly pooka, blinking in and out of existence as it passes through the pooka's skin. Upon reaching its apex just above the pooka, the star explodes in a brilliant display of sound and light.

Then it could be one of 7 other messages that follow it, so the messages could look like this:

A minuscule blue-white star slowly ascends from the floor directly under the ghostly pooka, blinking in and out of existence as it passes through the pooka's skin. Upon reaching its apex just above the pooka, the star explodes in a brilliant display of sound and light. Tiny sparks of energy shower down upon a ghostly pooka, causing the pooka to writhe in agony as her entire being is covered in a brilliant white glow.

Or this:

A minuscule blue-white star slowly ascends from the floor directly under the ghostly pooka, blinking in and out of existence as it passes through the pooka's skin. Upon reaching its apex just above the pooka, the star explodes in a brilliant display of sound and light. Prismatic shards of blue-white energy shatter against a ghostly pooka, inflicting moderate wounds.

But the:

A minuscule blue-white star slowly ascends from the floor directly under the ghostly pooka, blinking in and out of existence as it passes through the pooka's skin. Upon reaching its apex just above the pooka, the star explodes in a brilliant display of sound and light.

is always the same?

There is no additional damage messaging with instant deaths. For all other successful casts there will be a damage message. This includes infusions.

Infusions:

With a sudden burst of divine insight, you're able to amplify the power of your Smite spell!
A cascade of blue-white energy waves buffets a ghostly pooka.

With a sudden burst of divine insight, you're able to amplify the power of your Smite spell!
A massive beam of blue-white energy engulfs a ghostly pooka in a luminous column of light!

With a sudden burst of divine insight, you're able to amplify the power of your Smite spell!
Large wisps of blue-white energy lash out at a ghostly pooka, cauterizing the impact marks on the skin in an instant.

Smite instant death:

A minuscule blue-white star slowly ascends from the floor directly under the ghostly pooka, blinking in and out of existence as it passes through the pooka's skin. Upon reaching its apex just above the pooka, the star explodes in a brilliant display of sound and light. Tiny sparks of energy shower down upon a ghostly pooka, causing the pooka to writhe in agony as her entire being is covered in a brilliant white glow.

Mark

[Tgo01]

Ah okay, now I understand. I thought you were trying to explain there were several different instant death messages which is why people's number could be skewed.

So if smite/bane all have the same instant death messaging then why is everyone's numbers so low? I'm so confused.

Someone hold me :(

[masterdtwin]

Ah okay, now I understand. I thought you were trying to explain there were several different instant death messages which is why people's number could be skewed.

So if smite/bane all have the same instant death messaging then why is everyone's numbers so low? I'm so confused.

Someone hold me :(

Smite has insta-death message ABC

Bane has insta-death message DEF

Both smite and bane has infusion message blah blah blah Smite/Bane Spell!

-----

Also, what might actually be more telling is what the person is attacking. If for example, you are using Smite on living, the mana cost is much higher and the instant death-rate is lower (possibly infusion rate too). Attempting to use Bane on undead will yield similar results. This is one thing I failed to take into consideration, since I assumed that people hunted whatever was more beneficial.

[Tgo01]

Smite has insta-death message ABC

Bane has insta-death message DEF

Yeah pretty sure boneme tracks both. I think that's why it wasn't tracking smite instant kill casts because I had bane in there already and thought they were the same.


If for example, you are using Smite on living, the mana cost is much higher and the instant death-rate is lower (possibly infusion rate too). Attempting to use Bane on undead will yield similar results. This is one thing I failed to take into consideration, since I assumed that people hunted whatever was more beneficial.

Hmm. So it's possible the 5% base rate of instant kills is for the living/bane and undead/smite and if you do living/smite and undead/bane it might like half the rate?

Interesting.

I wonder if it's possible infuse rate actually skews your instant death cast rate.

Like maybe since you can't infuse and get an instant death cast (right?) on the same cast maybe infuse is checked first so if you have a 15% chance to infuse and you get the infuse then can't get the instant death cast.

It's not all the same roll so it's not like a D100 is rolled and 1-5 is instant death cast, 6-15 is infuse and 16-100 is regular cast.

Someone should do 10,000 tests with lots of lore on the same critters then drop all lore and do 10,000 more tests on the same critters.

[masterdtwin]

Yeah pretty sure boneme tracks both. I think that's why it wasn't tracking smite instant kill casts because I had bane in there already and thought they were the same.




Hmm. So it's possible the 5% base rate of instant kills is for the living/bane and undead/smite and if you do living/smite and undead/bane it might like half the rate?

I don't know the numbers - I just remember the official documentation (or possibly an oscuro/estild post) stating the rate was lower.


I wonder if it's possible infuse rate actually skews your instant death cast rate.

Like maybe since you can't infuse and get an instant death cast (right?) on the same cast maybe infuse is checked first so if you have a 15% chance to infuse and you get the infuse then can't get the instant death cast.

It is more likely done as independent checks. First you have your warding margin test, next you have a check for instant-death, then you have a check for infusion, then you have a check for damage.

Mind you also, that there was some rumors that the success margin increased the possibility of an instant-death. So, perhaps there's some degraded chance at lower warding margins (i.e. 101 = 1% chance, where-as 120+=5%). That's just an idea though, not even a full-fledged theory.


Someone should do 10,000 tests with lots of lore on the same critters then drop all lore and do 10,000 more tests on the same critters.

I nominate Whirlin

[Whirlin]

>
>prepare 302
You chant a reverent litany, clasping your hands while focusing upon the Bane spell...
Your spell is ready.
>
[bigshot]>channel #15289791
You channel at a kiramon worker.
A sickly, violet haze encompasses a kiramon worker.
CS: +198 - TD: +142 + CvA: +25 + d100: +47 == +128
Warding failed!
You feel the unnatural surge of necrotic power wane away.
A triad of ebony orbs conjoined by crackling ribbons of violet energy suddenly appear out of nowhere. The pulsating orbs take up a position directly in front of the kiramon worker, and slowly begin to move apart, stopping when they form a triangular shape of equal height to the creature. Encasing the worker within this framework, the triangle begins to rotate with tremendous speed, binding the worker with a cocoon of energy ribbons. A blur of violet and black obscures a kiramon worker from view and as mysteriously as the orbs appeared, they fade away.
All that remains of the worker is a charred ashen figure of its former self lying upon the floor.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

[B]This was successfully registered with infuseme/boneme.

[Whirlin]

These gathered statistics are pretty sad:



showme stats
Total Successful Smite/Bane casts: 399

Total infusion counts: 29
Percent chance: 7.2682

Total instant death counts: 6
Percent chance: 1.5038


Death count mirrored in boneme

Interestingly... did another 100 trials or so... and I had a 5% instant-death rate for those ~100 casts




Total Successful Smite/Bane casts: 505

Total infusion counts: 37
Percent chance: 7.3267

Total instant death counts: 11
Percent chance: 2.1782


LONG AGO... there used to be a gemstone broscience theory of an innate 'luck' roll associated with login. Which would account for the perception-only d100 'lolrandom' nature.

[Aluvius]

Jeez, I'm feeling better about dropping religion lore and picking up spell aim on my level 30 bane cleric. 306 is just a tiny bit more efficient on undead than bane or the other options at his level imo. I doubt I'll keep it long term though.

[Whirlin]

Jeez, I'm feeling better about dropping religion lore and picking up spell aim on my level 30 bane cleric. 306 is just a tiny bit more efficient on undead than bane or the other options at his level imo. I doubt I'll keep it long term though.

I'm a big advocate of Spell Aiming until level 45 or so. At which point, you can almost trade 2x spell aiming for the second rank in lores. Moreso for the potential for wands to be a crutch while you're low on mana, less about 306.



My Maths

CS: +195 - TD: +142 + CvA: +25 + d100: +38 == +116
=+78 on the rolls.
Been doing this on the same critters, while the same level, the entire time


The first 399 Trials put a 99% confidence interval between: .3% and 3.88% instant death rate.
The subsequent 505 Trials put a 99% confidence interval between .9% and 4.46% instant death rate.
The current value of 14 / 622 trails put a 99% confidence interval between 1% and 4.3% instant death rate.

What's interesting, is that if I take a base 5% death rate, which would align with Mastertwin's observations, as well as the religion ranks/10 = 1%, and apply my hit rate of 78% (Need a 23 to hit) would result in an instant death rate of 3.9%.

This could lead us to infer that the instant death rate is a calculation that occurs before the CS/TD resolution.

More data coming... eventually!

[masterdtwin]

What's interesting, is that if I take a base 5% death rate, which would align with Mastertwin's observations, as well as the religion ranks/10 = 1%, and apply my hit rate of 78% (Need a 23 to hit) would result in an instant death rate of 3.9%.

This could lead us to infer that the instant death rate is a calculation that occurs before the CS/TD resolution.

It's religion bonus/10=1%, so 25 ranks would be 10.5%. That also only applies to the infusion. Any relation of the religion lore to the instant-death is as yet still unknown.

I do however you are on to something with the warding margin making the difference. I believe that the only way I can miss what I'm hunting is on a roll of 1.

[Whirlin]

It's religion bonus/10=1%, so 25 ranks would be 10.5%. That also only applies to the infusion. Any relation of the religion lore to the instant-death is as yet still unknown.

I do however you are on to something with the warding margin making the difference. I believe that the only way I can miss what I'm hunting is on a roll of 1.

Per http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Smite/Bane_Mechanics(saved_post)

Yeah, seems like margin is #1

[masterdtwin]

Per http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Smite/Bane_Mechanics(saved_post)

Yeah, seems like margin is #1

So, the following two statements, are both incorrect.

"Although I haven't hunted my cleric in a while, I can tell you that the instant death isn't affected by end rolls, the death crits part is though."

Which of course leads us to believe... Instand-death is in fact affected by end rolls (or) death crits are not affected by end roll (or) both. Since we are well aware that death crits are affected by endrolls, we can safely assume that instant-death is also affected.

"Instakills happen about 5% of the time with minimal ways to affect the chance."

Based on the previous statement we can assume this is referring to both end roll, and religion lore being able to effect the chance. I suppose this is an opinion statement - Exactly what does one consider minimal ways to affect the chance.

[Whirlin]

I dunno... all I can do is keep gathering data, and see if we can reach any correlation between them. I think I'm up to 1200 or so casts at this point. Going off of memory, Infusions are still hovering around 7.5%, and instant-death around 2.6%. Basically worked off most of my Lumnis on Sunday, I just didn't want to post it when I only have about an hour more worth of hunting to go.

You know... Simu may be ultra sheisty and technical in their rebuttals. "Instant death isn't affected by end rolls" Well, it IS effected because you need at least a 101 to hit to trigger instantdeath! BOOYAH, technically accurate...

Maybe we (you) should alter infuseme to keep a running tab of the endrolls when an instant-death occurred?

[masterdtwin]

I dunno... all I can do is keep gathering data, and see if we can reach any correlation between them. I think I'm up to 1200 or so casts at this point. Going off of memory, Infusions are still hovering around 7.5%, and instant-death around 2.6%. Basically worked off most of my Lumnis on Sunday, I just didn't want to post it when I only have about an hour more worth of hunting to go.

You know... Simu may be ultra sheisty and technical in their rebuttals. "Instant death isn't affected by end rolls" Well, it IS effected because you need at least a 101 to hit to trigger instantdeath! BOOYAH, technically accurate...

Maybe we (you) should alter infuseme to keep a running tab of the endrolls when an instant-death occurred?

I was actually thinking of keeping track of the number of successfully warded casts. That way we can see what your instant-death% is based on successfully warded attacks. I can certainly modify it to keep a range of wards, 101-110, 111-120, etc... That would allow us to see which warding range has the highest likelihood.

[Whirlin]

Total Successful Smite/Bane casts: 1644

Total infusion counts: 133
Percent chance: 8.0900

Total instant death counts: 43
Percent chance: 2.6156


Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 105 25

[Tgo01]

I'm wondering if the 5% instant kill crit thingie is wrong. Where does this figure come from? Official documentation or from Krakiipedia?

RATHBONER is the one who said "Instakills happen about 5% of the time with minimal ways to affect the chance." and no offense to RATHBONER (if he even posts here) but he's usually wrong about things :/

And in the same thread Estild replied that he was wrong.

If I'm behind on this information and you all already came to this conclusion well PPPPPHHHHHBBBTTTTTT.

[masterdtwin]

I'm wondering if the 5% instant kill crit thingie is wrong. Where does this figure come from? Official documentation or from Krakiipedia?

RATHBONER is the one who said "Instakills happen about 5% of the time with minimal ways to affect the chance." and no offense to RATHBONER (if he even posts here) but he's usually wrong about things :/

And in the same thread Estild replied that he was wrong.

If I'm behind on this information and you all already came to this conclusion well PPPPPHHHHHBBBTTTTTT.

You're not behind - we're still trying to verify this, as well as the correlation between religion lore and infusion / instant-death rates. Fact is - we don't know, and until we have more data we come up with anything except random conjecture.

The 5% instant-death is based on the krakiipedia article. While Rathboner did make that statement (which was declared incorrect by estild), I (we) do not know if the initial article on krakiipedia was based on that statement by rathboner.

I definitely think that Whirlin is on to something with the warding margin affecting the instant-death rate. When I get some free time I will be doing some major updates that should help provide some more information for review (MOAR DATAZ!)

[Whirlin]

That data point was at the end of this week's Lumnis. All of those casts were level 40, versus level 40, at Endroll+78 on success margins.

Interestingly, since last level, my infusion rate went up almost exactly 1%. It looks like there's DEFINITELY a level component, which would also account for Master's data.

While not statistically significant yet, there also seems to be a .25-.5% level correlation on instant-kill. However, this may also be a warding margin implication.

I'd really like that endroll difference measured... looking back on posts from when I was 39, it doesn't look like I did a cut/paste of my CS / TD roll to determine overall margin, but had a Instant Death rate of 2.32% at N=1202 trials

Mark also brought up an order of operations implication, which I don't think we fully accounted for yet. If Instant-Death flares occur before CS/TD Resolution, do infusions occur after? Data would suggest yes.

Just, need more data! The longer you can pull data while being consistent (ie: consistent CS versus TD, consistent level, etc), the better.

We'll reverse engineer those Simu coders yet!

[masterdtwin]

That data point was at the end of this week's Lumnis. All of those casts were level 40, versus level 40, at Endroll+78 on success margins.!

Correct me if I'm wrong - but I thought that the Kiramon workers were 42, not 40...

[Whirlin]

Could be. I think they're labeled as 40 on the map though. No Krakii access at work. I can assess one later.

[masterdtwin]

Could be. I think they're labeled as 40 on the map though. No Krakii access at work. I can assess one later.

Krakiipedia has them at 40 - I can't access krakiipedia at work either - but nifty trick (which may work for you), you can google search the article for it and list krakiipedia -> then view the google cached version. Since you're mostly looking for the text, it helps quite a bit.

[Riltus]

The 5% instant-death is based on the krakiipedia article. While Rathboner did make that statement (which was declared incorrect by estild), I (we) do not know if the initial article on krakiipedia was based on that statement by rathboner.

It's not based on Rathboner's statement. The KP article included the '5% instant death rate' reference with the initial write-up in 2006. This may have been based on research posted to the officials which then became widely accepted. That info was reposted to the PC by Kitsun.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?4042-302-and-mana-share&p=130349#post130349


Infusion Rates ? on 11/3/2003 12:51:19 AM

Here are the results of some preliminary testing I did. Each test cycle was done with a little over two hundred successful casts.

Ranks of Spiritual Lore - Religion - Amount of Mana Infused - Infusion Rate - Instant Kill Rate
.............. 202 .............. .......... 5 .......... ..33.49% .. ..... 5.74% .....
.............. 151 .............. .......... 4 .......... .. 24.88% .. ..... 4.78% .....
.............. 101 .............. .......... 4 .......... .. 21.30% .. ..... 2.31% .....
.............. 051 .............. .......... 3 .......... .. 15.81% .. ..... 6.05% .....
.............. 000 .............. .......... 0 .......... .. 00.00% .. ..... 4.05% .....

Considering my cleric only plans to get about 100 ranks of Spiritual Lore - Religion, which equates to about a 20% chance of infusion, I am very satisfied with these results.

Lord Creukir
Dhe'nar Renouncer and follower of Arachne


================================================== ========

Religion Lore appears to yield an infusion rate of roughly (skill/10)%, e.g., a 5% chance of infusion with 10 rank/50 skill. I have noticed some anomalies when Religion Lore ranks exceed level, but that may just be sampling error.

There is also the chance (5-6%) of an insta-kill on each cast, but that is not affected by lores.

-- Tavarion.


Mark

[masterdtwin]

Mark - Thanks for the info. Looks like Whirlin and I will be getting a more accurate picture of things.

Just hit 41, here are my results prior to that...



>
Total Successful Smite/Bane casts: 2131

Total infusion counts: 238
Percent chance: 11.1685

Total instant death counts: 125
Percent chance: 5.8658

I will be spending my free time at work tomorrow updating the tracker to include a lot more data.

[masterdtwin]

Okay, I've made some serious overhaul changes to ;infuseme and posted it to the repo

it *SHOULD* be tracking everything properly and breaking things out into the counts for things.

Let me know what you think I should change once you get a chance to see it.



>showme stats

Casting stats
-------------

Total Casts: 5
Total successful: 0
Total warded: 0
success rate:

Infusions
---------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 0 - 0 - 0
101-110: 0 - 0 - 0
111-120: 0 - 0 - 0
121-130: 0 - 0 - 0
131-140: 0 - 0 - 0
141-150: 0 - 0 - 0
151-170: 0 - 0 - 0
171-190: 0 - 0 - 0
191-210: 0 - 0 - 0
211+: 0 - 0 - 0

Instant Deaths
--------------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 0 - 0 - 0
101-110: 0 - 0 - 0
111-120: 0 - 0 - 0
121-130: 0 - 0 - 0
131-140: 0 - 0 - 0
141-150: 0 - 0 - 0
151-170: 0 - 0 - 0
171-190: 0 - 0 - 0
191-210: 0 - 0 - 0
211+: 0 - 0 - 0

[Tgo01]

Looks pretty gosh darn sexy. Makes me want to rush out and create a cleric of my own.

[masterdtwin]

Looks pretty gosh darn sexy. Makes me want to rush out and create a cleric of my own.

Thank you much, and also for the help of course.

Also - If you've downloaded it before you've read this, please reload it, I fixed a few bugs in display, tracking, etc... my own stupidity and not changing things.

Should be much better now

[masterdtwin]

Okay! Since Whirlin and I happen to have similar clerics - I've decided to start hunting Kiramon...

My CS - 209
Religion Lore - 30 ranks 120 bonus
Kiramon TD - ranges from 136 to 151
CvA - 25
Endroll - Ranges from +83 to +98

Results so far:


Casting stats
-------------

Total Casts: 225
Total successful: 207
success rate: 92.0000

Infusions
---------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 207 - 22 - 10.6280
101-110: 27 - 2 - 7.4074
111-120: 16 - 0 - 0.0000
121-130: 16 - 2 - 12.5000
131-140: 21 - 2 - 9.5238
141-150: 28 - 2 - 7.1429
151-170: 47 - 8 - 17.0213
171-190: 48 - 5 - 10.4167
191-210: 4 - 1 - 25.0000
211+: 0 - 0 - 0

Instant Deaths
--------------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 207 - 10 - 4.8309
101-110: 27 - 0 - 0.0000
111-120: 16 - 0 - 0.0000
121-130: 16 - 0 - 0.0000
131-140: 21 - 0 - 0.0000
141-150: 28 - 0 - 0.0000
151-170: 47 - 6 - 12.7660
171-190: 48 - 3 - 6.2500
191-210: 4 - 1 - 25.0000
211+: 0 - 0 - 0

[Tgo01]

Rep comment:

As if you don't have a cleric already, dork <3

But I don't :(

[Whirlin]

Damn, that's a pretty nice upgrade.

I'm gonna finish up level 40 before the upgrade to infuseme... just for consistency... I think I'm about 10k tnl. I'll hunt a bit tonight.

[Whirlin]

>showme stats
Total Successful Smite/Bane casts: 3463

Total infusion counts: 297
Percent chance: 8.5764

Total instant death counts: 99
Percent chance: 2.8588


WORKER Stats
Total Casts: 3463
Total Instant Death Casts: 99 (2.859%)
Total Death Crits (including instant death casts): 99 (2.859%)
Total Damage: 135008 (38 average per cast)
Rank 1 Head Crits: 106 (3.061%)
Rank 2 Head Crits: 32 (0.924%)
Rank 3 Head Crits: 24 (0.693%)
Rank 4 Head Crits: 3 (0.087%)
Rank 1 Neck Crits: 156 (4.505%)
Rank 2 Neck Crits: 40 (1.155%)
Rank 3 Neck Crits: 19 (0.549%)
Rank 4 Neck Crits: 7 (0.202%)
Rank 1 Eye Crits: 100 (2.888%)
Rank 2 Eye Crits: 38 (1.097%)
Rank 3 Eye Crits: 13 (0.375%)
Rank 4 Eye Crits: 5 (0.144%)
Rank 5 Eye Crits: 2 (0.058%)
Rank 1 Chest Crits: 302 (8.721%)
Rank 2 Chest Crits: 99 (2.859%)
Rank 3 Chest Crits: 47 (1.357%)
Rank 4 Chest Crits: 8 (0.231%)
Rank 5 Chest Crits: 4 (0.116%)
Rank 6 Chest Crits: 1 (0.029%)
Rank 1 Ab Crits: 206 (5.949%)
Rank 2 Ab Crits: 60 (1.733%)
Rank 3 Ab Crits: 38 (1.097%)
Rank 4 Ab Crits: 11 (0.318%)
Rank 5 Ab Crits: 2 (0.058%)
Rank 1 Back Crits: 244 (7.046%)
Rank 2 Back Crits: 77 (2.224%)
Rank 3 Back Crits: 33 (0.953%)
Rank 4 Back Crits: 11 (0.318%)
Rank 5 Back Crits: 4 (0.116%)
Rank 6 Back Crits: 1 (0.029%)
Rank 1 Arm Crits: 448 (12.937%)
Rank 2 Arm Crits: 407 (11.753%)
Rank 3 Arm Crits: 77 (2.224%)
Rank 4 Arm Crits: 14 (0.404%)
Rank 5 Arm Crits: 4 (0.116%)
Rank 1 Hand Crits: 183 (5.284%)
Rank 2 Hand Crits: 58 (1.675%)
Rank 3 Hand Crits: 46 (1.328%)
Rank 4 Hand Crits: 13 (0.375%)
Rank 5 Hand Crits: 2 (0.058%)
Rank 6 Hand Crits: 1 (0.029%)
Rank 1 Leg Crits: 334 (9.645%)
Rank 2 Leg Crits: 101 (2.917%)
Rank 3 Leg Crits: 58 (1.675%)
Rank 4 Leg Crits: 17 (0.491%)
Rank 5 Leg Crits: 10 (0.289%)

[GuildRat]

Armor Use..........................| 130 35 35
Shield Use.........................| 172 72 72
Brawling...........................| 172 72 72
Physical Fitness...................| 170 70 70
Arcane Symbols.....................| 150 50 50
Magic Item Use.....................| 150 50 50
Harness Power......................| 171 71 71
Spirit Mana Control................| 140 40 40
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 62 13 13
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 166 66 66
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 96 22 22
Perception.........................| 170 70 70
Climbing...........................| 105 25 25
Swimming...........................| 105 25 25

Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 40 40

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 40 40

Spell Lists
Cleric.............................| 88 88

OK...so I caught up on PT and Perception.....any other suggestions at this point?

[Jeril]

Just keep things up to their 1x that you have and dump everything left into cleric spells is my take on it. Once your cleric spells hit +59 above level, you get more benefit by training the spirit circles up to 67 before finish those off at 166.

[GuildRat]

Cool. Thanks.

[Whirlin]

I'll post some more data when I get home... but I did notice a drastic increase in both infusion rate and instant-death rate after I leveled.

[Whirlin]

Casting stats
-------------

Total Casts: 847
Total successful: 705
Total warded: 0
success rate: 83.2349

Infusions
---------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 705 - 45 - 6.3830
101-110: 83 - 7 - 8.4337
111-120: 79 - 6 - 7.5949
121-130: 101 - 7 - 6.9307
131-140: 77 - 6 - 7.7922
141-150: 79 - 4 - 5.0633
151-170: 177 - 8 - 4.5198
171-190: 108 - 6 - 5.5556
191-210: 1 - 1 - 100.0000
211+: 0 - 0 - 0

Instant Deaths
--------------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 705 - 28 - 3.9716
101-110: 83 - 3 - 3.6145
111-120: 79 - 2 - 2.5316
121-130: 101 - 2 - 1.9802
131-140: 77 - 2 - 2.5974
141-150: 79 - 2 - 2.5316
151-170: 177 - 7 - 3.9548
171-190: 108 - 10 - 9.2593
191-210: 1 - 0 - 0.0000
211+: 0 - 0 - 0

so far

[masterdtwin]

Casting stats
-------------

Total Casts: 847
Total successful: 705
Total warded: 0
success rate: 83.2349

Infusions
---------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 705 - 45 - 6.3830
101-110: 83 - 7 - 8.4337
111-120: 79 - 6 - 7.5949
121-130: 101 - 7 - 6.9307
131-140: 77 - 6 - 7.7922
141-150: 79 - 4 - 5.0633
151-170: 177 - 8 - 4.5198
171-190: 108 - 6 - 5.5556
191-210: 1 - 1 - 100.0000
211+: 0 - 0 - 0

Instant Deaths
--------------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 705 - 28 - 3.9716
101-110: 83 - 3 - 3.6145
111-120: 79 - 2 - 2.5316
121-130: 101 - 2 - 1.9802
131-140: 77 - 2 - 2.5974
141-150: 79 - 2 - 2.5316
151-170: 177 - 7 - 3.9548
171-190: 108 - 10 - 9.2593
191-210: 1 - 0 - 0.0000
211+: 0 - 0 - 0

so far

Looking good.

Since We're working on it - I should probably put some more fixes into infuseme, so let me know what you think about the following:

Cast range is in increments of 10 until 201
Warded removed as... well I decided not to track it anyways and it's not needed.

Anything else you think should be added.

[Whirlin]

Nah, those changes sound good to me. Let me know when you push it onto the repo.

And, would need to ask the question about clearing the info or not. 'cause if I need to clear the data, I'll wait til I level in about a month. Since we're going to be gathering statistical information on such a granular basis, the sample size that we're going to need to going to be astronomical to prove statistical significance.

When it was just comparing us versus eachother, it was relatively easy, as it was aggregated to three data points, but now we have 10 conditions per data point! ie: 10 times the samples.

That'll be a lot of casting. Good thing we're both still relatively young in the Kiramon levels.

I'm also on a bit of a Diablo 3 binge with the recent loot changes, so I'll do my best to keep my cleric script hunting on the other screen... as hunting with my bard/wizard is a much more manual venture.

[masterdtwin]

;infuseme has been updated to version 1.3.0

This will require a stat reset ';infuseme reset'

Lots of changes, mostly minor and aesthetic.



Casting stats
-------------

Total Casts: 136
Total successful: 121
success rate: 88.9706

Infusions
---------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 121 - 7 - 5.7851
101-110: 13 - 0 - 0.0000
111-120: 12 - 1 - 8.3333
121-130: 9 - 1 - 11.1111
131-140: 15 - 1 - 6.6667
141-150: 18 - 1 - 5.5556
151-160: 11 - 1 - 9.0909
161-170: 17 - 2 - 11.7647
171-180: 14 - 0 - 0.0000
181-190: 8 - 0 - 0.0000
191-200: 4 - 0 - 0.0000
201+: 0 - 0 - 0

Instant Deaths
--------------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 121 - 2 - 1.6529
101-110: 13 - 0 - 0.0000
111-120: 12 - 0 - 0.0000
121-130: 9 - 1 - 11.1111
131-140: 15 - 0 - 0.0000
141-150: 18 - 0 - 5.5556
151-160: 11 - 0 - 9.0909
161-170: 17 - 1 - 11.7647
171-180: 14 - 0 - 0.0000
181-190: 8 - 0 - 0.0000
191-200: 4 - 0 - 0.0000
201+: 0 - 0 - 0

Everything seems to be working good - let me know if there are any issues

[masterdtwin]

Casting stats
-------------

Total Casts: 1023
Total successful: 939
success rate: 91.7889

Infusions
---------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 939 - 102 - 10.8626
101-110: 105 - 6 - 5.7143
111-120: 105 - 11 - 10.4762
121-130: 102 - 17 - 16.6667
131-140: 104 - 10 - 9.6154
141-150: 112 - 11 - 9.8214
151-160: 87 - 10 - 11.4943
161-170: 109 - 9 - 8.2569
171-180: 101 - 12 - 11.8812
181-190: 84 - 12 - 14.2857
191-200: 22 - 3 - 13.6364
201+: 8 - 1 - 12.5000

Instant Deaths
--------------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 939 - 44 - 4.6858
101-110: 105 - 2 - 1.9048
111-120: 105 - 5 - 4.7619
121-130: 102 - 4 - 3.9216
131-140: 104 - 6 - 5.7692
141-150: 112 - 4 - 9.8214
151-160: 87 - 6 - 11.4943
161-170: 109 - 7 - 8.2569
171-180: 101 - 3 - 11.8812
181-190: 84 - 6 - 14.2857
191-200: 22 - 1 - 13.6364
201+: 8 - 0 - 12.5000

I noticed an issue with the percentages starting at the 141 range, I'll see about getting that fixed up - I'm pretty sure I just put the wrong variable in, so no reset needed.

EDIT:Yup, took me a few seconds to fix it, results are much better



>showme stats

Casting stats
-------------

Total Casts: 1023
Total successful: 939
success rate: 91.7889

Infusions
---------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 939 - 102 - 10.8626
101-110: 105 - 6 - 5.7143
111-120: 105 - 11 - 10.4762
121-130: 102 - 17 - 16.6667
131-140: 104 - 10 - 9.6154
141-150: 112 - 11 - 9.8214
151-160: 87 - 10 - 11.4943
161-170: 109 - 9 - 8.2569
171-180: 101 - 12 - 11.8812
181-190: 84 - 12 - 14.2857
191-200: 22 - 3 - 13.6364
201+: 8 - 1 - 12.5000

Instant Deaths
--------------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 939 - 44 - 4.6858
101-110: 105 - 2 - 1.9048
111-120: 105 - 5 - 4.7619
121-130: 102 - 4 - 3.9216
131-140: 104 - 6 - 5.7692
141-150: 112 - 4 - 3.5714
151-160: 87 - 6 - 6.8966
161-170: 109 - 7 - 6.4220
171-180: 101 - 3 - 2.9703
181-190: 84 - 6 - 7.1429
191-200: 22 - 1 - 4.5455
201+: 8 - 0 - 0.0000

[Whirlin]

Casting stats
-------------

Total Casts: 3342
Total successful: 2777
Total warded: 0
success rate: 83.0940

Infusions
---------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 2777 - 217 - 7.8142
101-110: 330 - 18 - 5.4545
111-120: 339 - 27 - 7.9646
121-130: 367 - 34 - 9.2643
131-140: 304 - 27 - 8.8816
141-150: 340 - 30 - 8.8235
151-170: 677 - 50 - 7.3855
171-190: 416 - 30 - 7.2115
191-210: 4 - 1 - 25.0000
211+: 0 - 0 - 0

Instant Deaths
--------------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 2777 - 93 - 3.3489
101-110: 330 - 5 - 1.5152
111-120: 339 - 5 - 1.4749
121-130: 367 - 10 - 2.7248
131-140: 304 - 3 - 0.9868
141-150: 340 - 10 - 2.9412
151-170: 677 - 31 - 4.5790
171-190: 416 - 29 - 6.9712
191-210: 4 - 0 - 0.0000
211+: 0 - 0 - 0

[masterdtwin]

Okay, so looking at that and knowing what I know...

You have 25 religion lore ranks (105 bonus), which would should equate to approximately 10% infusion rate. I'm basically going by the assumption that the success rate is what causes the fluctuation.

Your infusion%/success rate = expected infusion%

7.8142% / 83.0940% = 9.4040%

While that's not exactly 10%, that does lead us to believe that the infusion and/or instant-death calculations are made prior to the roll calculation.

Mine is a lot closer to that expectation however (30 ranks, 120 bonus, 12% expectation)

10.8626% / 91.7889% = 11.8343%

I think we need more people to provide information, most specifically with varying amounts of religion lore.

[GuildRat]

At 68 ranks/168 bonus with religion lore I would guess that my infusion rate is somewhere in the middle of you guys' numbers. I have no data to back that up other than what I see. I have noticed an increase of infusions vs. critters that are a lower level than I am e.g., supplicants and hieophants in Wyneb. However, in Maaghara it seems to happen less frequently.

[masterdtwin]

At 68 ranks/168 bonus with religion lore I would guess that my infusion rate is somewhere in the middle of you guys' numbers. I have no data to back that up other than what I see. I have noticed an increase of infusions vs. critters that are a lower level than I am e.g., supplicants and hierophants in Wyneb. However, in Maaghara it seems to happen less frequently.

That's actually consistent with our findings. Basically the highest priority so far has been... can you ward the creature 100% of the time. It's still hard to tell at this time if there is a level component or not, we would have to compare up-hunting with 100% ward success vs up-hunting with 80% warding success to determine which is the more important factor.

My best guess is, you have a lower warding success rate in Maaghara than you do Wyneb.

[Whirlin]

Okay, so looking at that and knowing what I know...

You have 25 religion lore ranks (105 bonus), which would should equate to approximately 10% infusion rate. I'm basically going by the assumption that the success rate is what causes the fluctuation.

Your infusion%/success rate = expected infusion%

7.8142% / 83.0940% = 9.4040%

While that's not exactly 10%, that does lead us to believe that the infusion and/or instant-death calculations are made prior to the roll calculation.

Mine is a lot closer to that expectation however (30 ranks, 120 bonus, 12% expectation)

10.8626% / 91.7889% = 11.8343%

I think we need more people to provide information, most specifically with varying amounts of religion lore.

I was thinking about this before... and you're using open hand, channel casting from offensive, right?

I'm channeling, runestaff, guarded.

I think initial testing of open hand channeling gave an estimated +20 to effective endroll.

[GuildRat]

That's actually consistent with our findings. Basically the highest priority so far has been... can you ward the creature 100% of the time. It's still hard to tell at this time if there is a level component or not, we would have to compare up-hunting with 100% ward success vs up-hunting with 80% warding success to determine which is the more important factor.

My best guess is, you have a lower warding success rate in Maaghara than you do Wyneb.

In Wyneb I can ward 100% of the time if you remove hinderance and fumble fails. Maghaara, not so much.
I channel open handed in offensive.

[masterdtwin]

I was thinking about this before... and you're using open hand, channel casting from offensive, right?

I'm channeling, runestaff, guarded.

I think initial testing of open hand channeling gave an estimated +20 to effective endroll.

Yes, I'm channeling open-handed in offensive. I don't know how much of an actual bonus I get - but it does seem to be significant enough to make my statistics closer to expected compared to yours.


In Wyneb I can ward 100% of the time if you remove hinderance and fumble fails. Maghaara, not so much.
I channel open handed in offensive.

If you ran ;infuseme - we could get some actual numbers. I realize you would probably have to separate your stats between the different locations you are hunting, but it would be helpful. It would probably take me a while to modify the script to allow the tracking of separate creatures. Perhaps it's something worth looking into - but for now we'll stick with what we have.

[GuildRat]

Yes, I'm channeling open-handed in offensive. I don't know how much of an actual bonus I get - but it does seem to be significant enough to make my statistics closer to expected compared to yours.



If you ran ;infuseme - we could get some actual numbers. I realize you would probably have to separate your stats between the different locations you are hunting, but it would be helpful. It would probably take me a while to modify the script to allow the tracking of separate creatures. Perhaps it's something worth looking into - but for now we'll stick with what we have.

Sorry man, I haven't upgraded to using Lich yet. I kind of like the nostalgia of The Wizard frontend. That's why, other than personal observance, I don't have numbers to add to you guys' research.

[Whirlin]

Sorry man, I haven't upgraded to using Lich yet. I kind of like the nostalgia of The Wizard frontend. That's why, other than personal observance, I don't have numbers to add to you guys' research.

Lich is an add-on to the wizard front end. So, it really doesn't change anything about the front end, but allow you to use ; commands (note: you can set ; to whatever you want), and thus invoke scripts using ; similarly to how you can run WFE scripts using '.'.

I'll be wrapping up this level soon, and will upgrade to the newest version when I level. It's pretty interesting to have tracked values of every cast made for the duration of an entire level...

Then I'll crunch some maths, make some graphs, etc.

[GuildRat]

I didn't know Lich was an add-on. I seriously need a tutorial, which I'm sure there is somewhere. Maybe later I'll look in to it later and download Lich.

[Riltus]

I was thinking about this before... and you're using open hand, channel casting from offensive, right?

I'm channeling, runestaff, guarded.

I think initial testing of open hand channeling gave an estimated +20 to effective endroll.


The table below lists Spell 302 Smite/Bane phantom endroll bonuses when channeling. One open hand is required to activate the bonuses.



Stance|One Open Hand|Two Open Hands
OFFENSIVE|+20|+40
ADVANCE|+16|+32
FORWARD|+12|+24
NEUTRAL|+8|+16
GUARDED|+5|+10

In a previous post I listed the messaging for smite. That list was incomplete. Below is a complete list of smite/bane messaging and the corresponding endrolls associated with the messaging. This is the base endroll/messaging list and only applies when CASTing or channeling with items in both hands. Phantom endroll bonuses affect the endroll/messaging relationship . See Example below the base lists.

Damage is tied to the messaging but there is a random factor. I'm working on that now.

**SMITE** messaging with corresponding endrolls when CASTing:

1. ER 101 to 105
Tiny filaments of blue-white energy pierce a <target>, lightly agitating a <target>'s skin.

2. ER 106 to 110
A scintilla of blue-white energy slightly agitates a <target>.

3. ER 111 to 115
Small globes of blue-white energy crash into a <target>, causing small bruises to form.

4. ER 116 to 130
Prismatic shards of blue-white energy shatter against a <target>, inflicting moderate wounds.

5. ER 131 to 145
A pinpoint of blue-white energy traces its way along a <target>'s skin, leaving a blackened line in its wake.

6. 146 to 160
A cascade of blue-white energy waves buffets a <target>.

7. 161 to 175
An explosion of blue-white energy near a <target> consumes the surrounding area with a blinding light.

8. ER 175 - 190
Multiple rays of blue-white energy ignite several patches of a <target>'s skin in a blaze of energy.

9. ER 191 to 210
Large wisps of blue-white energy lash out at a <target>, cauterizing the impact marks on the skin in an instant.

10. ER 211 and greater
A massive beam of blue-white energy engulfs a <target> in a luminous column of light!

INSTANT DEATH:

A minuscule blue-white star slowly ascends from the floor directly under the ghostly pooka, blinking in and out of existence as it passes through the pooka's skin. Upon reaching its apex just above the pooka, the star explodes in a brilliant display of sound and light. Tiny sparks of energy shower down upon a ghostly pooka, causing the pooka to writhe in agony as her entire being is covered in a brilliant white glow.

INFUSION:

With a sudden burst of divine insight, you're able to amplify the power of your Smite spell!

**BANE** messaging with corresponding endrolls when CASTing:

1. ER 101 to 105
The violet haze lightly swirls around the <target>, inducing light wounds upon a <target>'s skin.

2. ER 106 to 110
The violet haze softly swirls around the <target>, causing tiny abrasions upon a <target>'s skin.

3. ER 111 to 115
The violet haze slowly swirls around the <target>, inducing temperate wounds upon a <target>'s skin.

4. ER 116 to 130
The violet haze steadily swirls around the <target>, discoloring patches on a <target>'s skin that came in direct contact with the haze.

5. ER 131 to 145
The violet haze eddies and swirls around the <target>, lashing out at a <target>'s skin with ethereal tendrils.

6. ER 146 to 160
The violet haze quickly swirls around the <target>, and the velocity causes large pieces of a <target>'s skin to peel off.

7. ER 161 to 175
The violet haze rapidly swirls around the <target>, sparking with pockets of chaotic, plasma energy.

8. ER 176 to 190
The violet haze furiously swirls around the <target>, striking at a <target> with small flashes of plasma.

9. ER 191 to 210
The violet haze violently swirls around the <target>, scorching the skin of a <target>.

10. ER 211 and higher
The violet haze chaotically swirls around the <target>, the tremendous force causing the victim to crumple inward upon itself!

INSTANT DEATH:

A triad of ebony orbs conjoined by crackling ribbons of violet energy suddenly appear out of nowhere. The pulsating orbs take up a position directly in front of the <target>, and slowly begin to move apart, stopping when they form a triangular shape of equal height to the creature. Encasing the <target> within this framework, the triangle begins to rotate with tremendous speed, binding the <target> with a cocoon of energy ribbons. A blur of violet and black obscures a <target> from view and as mysteriously as the orbs appeared, they fade away.
All that remains of the <target> is a charred ashen figure of its former self lying upon the floor.

INFUSION:

With a sudden burst of divine insight, you're able to amplify the power of your Bane spell!

------------------------------

Example of how channeling affects the ER/Messaging relationship

BANE (Channeling) with 2 open hands in neutral stance (phantom ER bonus of +16). The message shown with a +101 ER is #4 from the BANE base list and will have corresponding damage.

1. N/A
The violet haze lightly swirls around the <target>, inducing light wounds upon a <target>'s skin.

2. N/A
The violet haze softly swirls around the <target>, causing tiny abrasions upon a <target>'s skin.

3. N/A
The violet haze slowly swirls around the <target>, inducing temperate wounds upon a <target>'s skin.

4. ER 101 to 114
The violet haze steadily swirls around the <target>, discoloring patches on a <target>'s skin that came in direct contact with the haze.

5. ER 115 to 129
The violet haze eddies and swirls around the <target>, lashing out at a <target>'s skin with ethereal tendrils.

6. ER 130 to 144
The violet haze quickly swirls around the <target>, and the velocity causes large pieces of a <target>'s skin to peel off.

7. ER 145 to 159
The violet haze rapidly swirls around the <target>, sparking with pockets of chaotic, plasma energy.

8. ER 160 to 174
The violet haze furiously swirls around the <target>, striking at a <target> with small flashes of plasma.

9. ER 175 to 194
The violet haze violently swirls around the <target>, scorching the skin of a <target>.

10. ER 195 and higher
The violet haze chaotically swirls around the <target>, the tremendous force causing the victim to crumple inward upon itself!

Mark

[Whirlin]

The table below lists Spell 302 Smite/Bane phantom endroll bonuses when channeling. One open hand is required to activate the bonuses.



Stance|One Open Hand|Two Open Hands
OFFENSIVE|+20|+40
ADVANCE|+16|+32
FORWARD|+12|+24
NEUTRAL|+8|+16
GUARDED|+5|+10


Thanks as always Mark.

I did a small test to determine the effects of a runestaff on the openhand, based on your breakdown of the endroll versus messages, and the adjustments based on the stance. Bane, Runestaff, Guarded:

You channel at a kiramon worker.
A sickly, violet haze encompasses a kiramon worker.
CS: +203 - TD: +142 + CvA: +25 + d100: +23 == +109
Warding failed!
You feel the unnatural surge of necrotic power wane away.
The violet haze steadily swirls around the worker, discoloring patches on a kiramon worker's skin that came in direct contact with the haze.
The kiramon worker is hit for 13 points of damage!
... 7 points of damage!
Light burns to the kiramon worker's leg.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

Implies +7 Phantom Roll.

>channel #55243509
You channel at a kiramon worker.
A sickly, violet haze encompasses a kiramon worker.
CS: +200 - TD: +142 + CvA: +25 + d100: +67 == +150
Warding failed!
The violet haze quickly swirls around the worker, and the velocity causes large pieces of a kiramon worker's skin to peel off.
The kiramon worker is hit for 29 points of damage!
... 15 points of damage!
Plasma scalds the kiramon worker's stomach leaving painful red streaks.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

Implies less than +10 Phantom roll

[B]Conclusion: Runestaff is treated at least as an open hand? And/or, perhaps Phantom Endroll occurs as a result of religion lore?

[Whirlin]

MasterTwin... could you adjust infuseme to incorporate the messaging as datapoints that Mark raised in his post, preferably as a second form of data capture, keeping in place the existing endroll analysis?

Actually... would it be easier to take key data elements, like Endroll, messsaging, Damage, and Infuse/Instant death, and create a CSV file log that I can just Excel later?

[masterdtwin]

MasterTwin... could you adjust infuseme to incorporate the messaging as datapoints that Mark raised in his post, preferably as a second form of data capture, keeping in place the existing endroll analysis?

Actually... would it be easier to take key data elements, like Endroll, messsaging, Damage, and Infuse/Instant death, and create a CSV file log that I can just Excel later?

It would certainly take a while, but yes. now that I have all of the messaging it shouldn't be too difficult to add it in.

I do know that I was running into issues with too many variable tracks in a short-time period, although that may very well have just been bad code as well (my ruby experience is limited). Either way I will see what I can do, the weekend is coming up - so hopefully I can have something by monday/tuesday.

[Whirlin]

It would certainly take a while, but yes. now that I have all of the messaging it shouldn't be too difficult to add it in.


Yeah, that's why I was thinking it may be easier just to capture all of the variables, and dump them into a csv file that we can analyze outside of a reporting command. I'm not sure if that's easier or harder! Sadly I haven't really had the opportunity to mess with Ruby too much, I'm more of an Excel VBA person myself.

I know that Gib had some issues with Crit_Type_Tracker, where he basically coded all of the critical tables into arrays to compare after each hit, because there was simply too much to parse though, which would just delay reporting on client side post-hit.

[Whirlin]

Level 41 in it's entirety!


Casting stats
-------------

Total Casts: 3818
Total successful: 3167
Total warded: 0
success rate: 82.9492

Infusions
---------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 3167 - 249 - 7.8623
101-110: 372 - 19 - 5.1075
111-120: 389 - 28 - 7.1979
121-130: 417 - 40 - 9.5923
131-140: 351 - 33 - 9.4017
141-150: 383 - 33 - 8.6162
151-170: 764 - 58 - 7.5916
171-190: 487 - 37 - 7.5975
191-210: 4 - 1 - 25.0000
211+: 0 - 0 - 0

Instant Deaths
--------------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 3167 - 110 - 3.4733
101-110: 372 - 5 - 1.3441
111-120: 389 - 8 - 2.0566
121-130: 417 - 11 - 2.6379
131-140: 351 - 5 - 1.4245
141-150: 383 - 13 - 3.3943
151-170: 764 - 35 - 4.5812
171-190: 487 - 33 - 6.7762
191-210: 4 - 0 - 0.0000
211+: 0 - 0 - 0

[Riltus]

Thanks as always Mark.

I did a small test to determine the effects of a runestaff on the openhand, based on your breakdown of the endroll versus messages, and the adjustments based on the stance. Bane, Runestaff, Guarded:

You channel at a kiramon worker.
A sickly, violet haze encompasses a kiramon worker.
CS: +203 - TD: +142 + CvA: +25 + d100: +23 == +109
Warding failed!
You feel the unnatural surge of necrotic power wane away.
The violet haze steadily swirls around the worker, discoloring patches on a kiramon worker's skin that came in direct contact with the haze.
The kiramon worker is hit for 13 points of damage!
... 7 points of damage!
Light burns to the kiramon worker's leg.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

Implies +7 Phantom Roll.

>channel #55243509
You channel at a kiramon worker.
A sickly, violet haze encompasses a kiramon worker.
CS: +200 - TD: +142 + CvA: +25 + d100: +67 == +150
Warding failed!
The violet haze quickly swirls around the worker, and the velocity causes large pieces of a kiramon worker's skin to peel off.
The kiramon worker is hit for 29 points of damage!
... 15 points of damage!
Plasma scalds the kiramon worker's stomach leaving painful red streaks.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

Implies less than +10 Phantom roll

[B]Conclusion: Runestaff is treated at least as an open hand? And/or, perhaps Phantom Endroll occurs as a result of religion lore?


All testing was done with runestaff for both characters and each combination was tested independently (no extrapolations). Bane results were with 9 ranks (45 skill SL, Religion) vs rats and lesser burrow orcs. Exact same phantom ERs added for smite cleric (0 ranks religion lore) vs pookas and spec miners. The smite cleric has ~1000 PTPs available. If we can't find another explanation for your additional phantom ERs, I can grab 25 ranks of SL, Religion and retest. Condition of target , ie., stunned w/injuries?, can increase phantom ERs but I need to do more testing to determine specifics.

Can you post your character's current skill set?


Level 11, your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Ranged Weapons.....................| 20 4
Physical Fitness...................| 50 10
Arcane Symbols.....................| 90 20
Magic Item Use.....................| 102 24
Spell Aiming.......................| 5 1
Harness Power......................| 82 18
Spirit Mana Control................| 58 12
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 45 9
Perception.........................| 15 3
Climbing...........................| 15 3
First Aid..........................| 40 8

Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 7

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 7

Spell Lists
Cleric.............................| 16


Level 38, your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25
Arcane Symbols.....................| 142 42
Magic Item Use.....................| 147 47
Harness Power......................| 158 58
Spirit Mana Control................| 140 40
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 50 10
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 5 1
Perception.........................| 78 17
Climbing...........................| 70 15
Swimming...........................| 40 8
First Aid..........................| 142 42

Spell Lists
Major Spiritual....................| 25

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 25

Spell Lists
Cleric.............................| 48

Mark

[Riltus]

Partial endroll map for 1 open hand in stance GUA (+5 phantom ERs). I added one additional rank of SL, Religion so the character has 10 ranks (50 skill)

1. NA
The violet haze lightly swirls around the <target>, inducing light wounds upon a <target>'s skin.

2. ER 101 to 105
The violet haze softly swirls around the <target>, causing tiny abrasions upon a <target>'s skin.


A sickly, violet haze encompasses a giant rat.
CS: +80 - TD: +3 + CvA: +25 + d100: +3 == +105
Warding failed!
The violet haze softly swirls around the rat, causing tiny abrasions upon a giant rat's skin.

3. ER 106 to 110
The violet haze slowly swirls around the <target>, inducing temperate wounds upon a <target>'s skin.


A sickly, violet haze encompasses a giant rat.
CS: +80 - TD: +3 + CvA: +25 + d100: +4 == +106
Warding failed!
The violet haze slowly swirls around the rat, inducing temperate wounds upon a giant rat's skin.

A sickly, violet haze encompasses a giant rat.
CS: +80 - TD: +3 + CvA: +25 + d100: +8 == +110
Warding failed!
The violet haze slowly swirls around the rat, inducing temperate wounds upon a giant rat's skin.


4. ER 111 to 125
The violet haze steadily swirls around the <target>, discoloring patches on a <target>'s skin that came in direct contact with the haze.


A sickly, violet haze encompasses a giant rat.
CS: +80 - TD: +3 + CvA: +25 + d100: +9 == +111
Warding failed!
The violet haze steadily swirls around the rat, discoloring patches on a giant

A sickly, violet haze encompasses a giant rat.
CS: +80 - TD: +3 + CvA: +25 + d100: +23 == +125
Warding failed!
The violet haze steadily swirls around the rat, discoloring patches on a giant rat's skin that came in direct contact with the haze.

Here is an example of phantom ERs added to subsequent attack after target stunned/injured. The ER +176 attack has 'scorching the skin' messaging which ordinarily would only be seen within the ER range +186 to +205. This demonstrates a minimum of 10 phantom ERs added.


You channel at a giant rat.
A sickly, violet haze encompasses a giant rat.
CS: +80 - TD: +3 + CvA: +25 + d100: +3 == +105
Warding failed!
The violet haze softly swirls around the rat, causing tiny abrasions upon a giant rat's skin.
The giant rat is hit for 11 points of damage!
... 10 points of damage!
Plasma strike to neck constricts throat causing the giant rat to choke.
The giant rat is stunned!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

You channel at a giant rat.
A sickly, violet haze encompasses a giant rat.
CS: +80 - TD: +3 + CvA: +25 + d100: +74 == +176
Warding failed!
The violet haze violently swirls around the rat, scorching the skin of a giant rat.
The giant rat is hit for 45 points of damage!
The giant rat collapses to the ground, emits a final squeal, and dies.

Mark

[masterdtwin]

Thanks as always Mark.

I did a small test to determine the effects of a runestaff on the openhand, based on your breakdown of the endroll versus messages, and the adjustments based on the stance. Bane, Runestaff, Guarded:

I think you need to re-look at these...


You channel at a kiramon worker.
A sickly, violet haze encompasses a kiramon worker.
CS: +203 - TD: +142 + CvA: +25 + d100: +23 == +109
Warding failed!
You feel the unnatural surge of necrotic power wane away.
The violet haze steadily swirls around the worker, discoloring patches on a kiramon worker's skin that came in direct contact with the haze.
The kiramon worker is hit for 13 points of damage!
... 7 points of damage!
Light burns to the kiramon worker's leg.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

Implies +7 Phantom Roll.

Yes, this is the messaging for a +116-130

But I think you failed to notice probably the most important part...

You feel the unnatural surge of necrotic power wane away.


[bigshot]>channel #55243509
You channel at a kiramon worker.
A sickly, violet haze encompasses a kiramon worker.
CS: +200 - TD: +142 + CvA: +25 + d100: +67 == +150
Warding failed!
The violet haze quickly swirls around the worker, and the velocity causes large pieces of a kiramon worker's skin to peel off.
The kiramon worker is hit for 29 points of damage!
... 15 points of damage!
Plasma scalds the kiramon worker's stomach leaving painful red streaks.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

Implies less than +10 Phantom roll

Assuming for a moment that Mark's information accurate... +5 is in fact less than +10.

The first one implies there is an issue, or something that we missed - This doesn't tell me anything except the range is from -4 to +10 for the phantom bonus.

EDIT: OR what mark was saying about the phantom endroll bonus for stunned targets

[Whirlin]

Here is an example of phantom ERs added to subsequent attack after target stunned/injured. The ER +176 attack has 'scorching the skin' messaging which ordinarily would only be seen within the ER range +186 to +205. This demonstrates a minimum of 10 phantom ERs added.
Mark

Likely the stunned/injured criteria. I'll do more testing when I have some time.

Although, if we can get battlefield statistics captured in a CSV file, aww man, we can have some fun with that data!

[masterdtwin]

Likely the stunned/injured criteria. I'll do more testing when I have some time.

Although, if we can get battlefield statistics captured in a CSV file, aww man, we can have some fun with that data!

How about you give me a bit more information about what it is that you are looking for. I can certainly make some shit up myself - but since you've been doing the majority of the testing lately it only makes sense to have you give me a better idea of what you want.

[Whirlin]

http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/000000/00000/0000/000/80/80.strip.gif

[masterdtwin]

http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/000000/00000/0000/000/80/80.strip.gif

I think I'm in love

[Candor]

http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/000000/00000/0000/000/80/80.strip.gif

I work with the guy on the right. How did he get into the comic strip?

[Whirlin]

http://secretgeek.net/image/dilbert_creep.PNG

[masterdtwin]

http://secretgeek.net/image/dilbert_creep.PNG

I think I hate you now...

Man, this day has just been one whirlwind of emotions...

[Aganii]

Good stuff in here so far, guys. Im thinking of contributing to this with my cleric in the near future. In addition to the channeling bonus and stun bonus are the other status effects also taken into consideration? Prone, web, bind etc boost the effective warding margin too. Or is that not necessary to worry about?

[Whirlin]

http://secretgeek.net/image/dilbert_creep.PNG


In addition to the channeling bonus and stun bonus are the other status effects also taken into consideration? Prone, web, bind etc boost the effective warding margin too. Or is that not necessary to worry about?

You're the guy on the right.

[Whirlin]

How about you give me a bit more information about what it is that you are looking for. I can certainly make some shit up myself - but since you've been doing the majority of the testing lately it only makes sense to have you give me a better idea of what you want.

Functional Requirements for Infuseme2:
*All cast data consolidated into a Text file.
*The structure of the file should include the following data capture:
**Caster's Level ; Target Name ; Caster's Stance ; End Roll ; Target Status Prone/Stunned/etc (if feasible/possible... lowest priority requirement) ; Damage Script (per Mark's List) ; Infuse Yes/No ; Instant Death Yes/No ; Total Damage
*Each new cast generates a new row.
*Semicolon Delimited (because I think some of the flavor text uses commas)
*For missed casts, only the first four data elements are required (of course). No need to hide/curb/whatever the other criteria. Even ;error; or something would be fine for subsequent data elements on a miss.
*Any Front end Reporting IS NOT REQUIRED. No showme stats needed, we can just pull from the text file

[Riltus]

Phantom endrolls -

Stunned: Yes
Prone: Yes
Blind: Yes
Webbed: No

I didn't see evidence of status effect stacking.

The number of phantom endrolls added from status effects appears to be a random variable. Not sure of the range. The 14 phantom ERs shown in the below attack is the highest value I obtained. This was from a stunned target. The actual value for most attacks is indeterminate within a theoretical range of 1 to 15.


Your spell is ready.
You channel at a lesser orc.
A sickly, violet haze encompasses a lesser orc.
CS: +86 - TD: +18 + CvA: +19 + d100: +50 == +137
Warding failed!
The violet haze violently swirls around the orc, scorching the skin of a lesser
The lesser orc is hit for 45 points of damage!
A lesser orc screams one last time and dies.

Base range for scorching messaging: 191 min to 210 max
Range with Stance OFF and 2 open hands: 151 to 170 (40 phantom ERs)

Phantom ER calculations:
191 min - 137 acual = 54 ER difference (40 from stance OFF w/2 open hands + 14 from stun).

Also note that the +137 ER was sufficient to cause max concussion damage (45 points of damage).

Mark

[Riltus]

Another tidbit I forgot to mention. Channeling Smite vs noncorps appears to have increased damage (approx. 20%) and a lower max damage endroll threshold vs similar Bane ERs. These differences are apparent for all stance/open hand channeling combinations.

Here are a few examples with 2 open hand OFF channeling.


A scintillating, blue-white aura encompasses a ghostly pooka.
CS: +205 - TD: +109 + CvA: +25 + d100: +6 == +127
Warding failed!
An explosion of blue-white energy near a ghostly pooka consumes the surrounding area with a blinding light.
The ghostly pooka is hit for 45 points of damage!

A scintillating, blue-white aura encompasses a ghostly pooka.
CS: +205 - TD: +109 + CvA: +25 + d100: +4 == +125
Warding failed!
An explosion of blue-white energy near a ghostly pooka consumes the surrounding area with a blinding light.
The ghostly pooka is hit for 42 points of damage!

A scintillating, blue-white aura encompasses a ghostly pooka.
CS: +205 - TD: +109 + CvA: +25 + d100: +4 == +125
Warding failed!
An explosion of blue-white energy near a ghostly pooka consumes the surrounding area with a blinding light.
The ghostly pooka is hit for 44 points of damage!

Mark

[Whirlin]

Why is it that I always try to tackle mechanics that always seem to have hidden stuff going on behind the scenes that make it super impossible to correlate?

[masterdtwin]

Why is it that I always try to tackle mechanics that always seem to have hidden stuff going on behind the scenes that make it super impossible to correlate?

Because you're secretly a masochist?

also - here's my stats for lvl 41-42



Casting stats
-------------

Total Casts: 2994
Total successful: 2761
success rate: 92.2178

Infusions
---------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 2761 - 317 - 11.4813
101-110: 307 - 31 - 10.0977
111-120: 303 - 34 - 11.2211
121-130: 308 - 47 - 15.2597
131-140: 290 - 32 - 11.0345
141-150: 314 - 33 - 10.5096
151-160: 275 - 29 - 10.5455
161-170: 313 - 30 - 9.5847
171-180: 313 - 36 - 11.5016
181-190: 264 - 39 - 14.7727
191-200: 61 - 5 - 8.1967
201+: 13 - 1 - 7.6923

Instant Deaths
--------------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 2761 - 114 - 4.1289
101-110: 307 - 3 - 0.9772
111-120: 303 - 11 - 3.6304
121-130: 308 - 12 - 3.8961
131-140: 290 - 11 - 3.7931
141-150: 314 - 17 - 5.4140
151-160: 275 - 8 - 2.9091
161-170: 313 - 19 - 6.0703
171-180: 313 - 15 - 4.7923
181-190: 264 - 14 - 5.3030
191-200: 61 - 4 - 6.5574
201+: 13 - 0 - 0.0000

[Whirlin]

Because you're secretly a masochist?

also - here's my stats for lvl 41-42


Infusions appear rather constant, regardless of endrolls, and then instant-death seem to have almost double the likelihood post 160 (or in your case, 140 due to open hand?)

[masterdtwin]

Infusions appear rather constant, regardless of endrolls, and then instant-death seem to have almost double the likelihood post 160 (or in your case, 140 due to open hand?)

So, basically we've determined that there is a distinct increase in the instant-death % with increased endrolls. I find it odd that there's a large drop in the middle of both of our statistics. Although that could very easily be attributed to nothing more than RNG.

[Whirlin]

So, basically we've determined that there is a distinct increase in the instant-death % with increased endrolls. I find it odd that there's a large drop in the middle of both of our statistics. Although that could very easily be attributed to nothing more than RNG.

I think we quantified a lot!

Also, when looking at your data, you do have an infusion drop, but that coincides with the instant death spike... We also seem to have some pretty good evidence that IF the infusion % is a straight correlation with religion lore, that the roll for infusion appears to occur prior to the attack resolution. Furthermore, based upon that drop at 160-170, it would appear that the instant-death rate roll supercedes the infusion roll results.

Furthermore, Mark's testing of phantom endroll adjustment for messaging is the best insight we have into the effects of channel and openhand casting, and can allow us to work towards a clear quantification of the effects of using other openers to stage the attacks.

I think we've made it incredibly far in our testing, and have a much better understanding of the game mechanics around 302.

There was actually a great quote made by a physicist after the LHC successfully proved the Higgs Boson Field's existence, where he stated something along the lines of, "We're now going to be testing the properties of the Higgs Boson against the standard model and see if it meets our expectations. If we're lucky, it won't match what we expect, because that will mean that there's more that we need to learn!"

I'll do some real statistical work on it eventually!

[Whirlin]

Level 42 stats in their entirety




Casting stats
-------------

Total Casts: 4247
Total successful: 3756
success rate: 88.4389

Infusions
---------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 3756 - 366 - 9.7444
101-110: 433 - 42 - 9.6998
111-120: 439 - 44 - 10.0228
121-130: 451 - 48 - 10.6430
131-140: 406 - 41 - 10.0985
141-150: 416 - 43 - 10.3365
151-160: 411 - 38 - 9.2457
161-170: 430 - 34 - 7.9070
171-180: 456 - 49 - 10.7456
181-190: 292 - 26 - 8.9041
191-200: 22 - 1 - 4.5455
201+: 0 - 0 - 0

Instant Deaths
--------------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 3756 - 140 - 3.7274
101-110: 433 - 4 - 0.9238
111-120: 439 - 13 - 2.9613
121-130: 451 - 12 - 2.6608
131-140: 406 - 17 - 4.1872
141-150: 416 - 14 - 3.3654
151-160: 411 - 21 - 5.1095
161-170: 430 - 18 - 4.1860
171-180: 456 - 25 - 5.4825
181-190: 292 - 15 - 5.1370
191-200: 22 - 1 - 4.5455
201+: 0 - 0 - 0

[Jeril]

Another tidbit I forgot to mention. Channeling Smite vs noncorps appears to have increased damage (approx. 20%) and a lower max damage endroll threshold vs similar Bane ERs. These differences are apparent for all stance/open hand channeling combinations.

Here are a few examples with 2 open hand OFF channeling.



Mark

I am guessing you are accounting for the difference in DFs between bane and smite already?

[Riltus]

I am guessing you are accounting for the difference in DFs between bane and smite already?

No. I forgot to adjust for that. Duh!

Minimum Damage = (ER - 100) * DF

Smite DF: 0.600
Smite Infusion DF: 0.800

Bane DF: 0.500
Bane Infusion DF: 0.667

Smite's damage caps at ER 175 and Bane's at ER 190 without any additional random damage, or phantom endrolls from channeling/status effects.

Mark

[Whirlin]

Level 43 entirety:



Casting stats
-------------

Total Casts: 4797
Total successful: 4378
success rate: 91.2654

Infusions
---------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 4378 - 401 - 9.1594
101-110: 443 - 43 - 9.7065
111-120: 481 - 48 - 9.9792
121-130: 490 - 45 - 9.1837
131-140: 493 - 51 - 10.3448
141-150: 446 - 46 - 10.3139
151-160: 497 - 45 - 9.0543
161-170: 466 - 38 - 8.1545
171-180: 510 - 43 - 8.4314
181-190: 421 - 30 - 7.1259
191-200: 129 - 12 - 9.3023
201+: 2 - 0 - 0.0000

Instant Deaths
--------------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 4378 - 163 - 3.7232
101-110: 443 - 6 - 1.3544
111-120: 481 - 13 - 2.7027
121-130: 490 - 9 - 1.8367
131-140: 493 - 12 - 2.4341
141-150: 446 - 18 - 4.0359
151-160: 497 - 16 - 3.2193
161-170: 466 - 26 - 5.5794
171-180: 510 - 26 - 5.0980
181-190: 421 - 32 - 7.6010
191-200: 129 - 5 - 3.8760
201+: 2 - 0 - 0.0000

[GuildRat]

Where are you at on your Religion Lore training? Singled?

[Whirlin]

25 ranks. Eventual perfect Chrism maker...

But, the results of the two levels side-by-side conveys that there does not appear to be any additional bonus from being overleveled compared to the critter. But I'll take a more statistical review of it later.

[Whirlin]

Level 44 in its entirety!



Casting stats
-------------

Total Casts: 5346
Total successful: 5148
success rate: 96.2963

Infusions
---------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 5148 - 442 - 8.5859
101-110: 506 - 52 - 10.2767
111-120: 564 - 50 - 8.8652
121-130: 536 - 41 - 7.6493
131-140: 540 - 37 - 6.8519
141-150: 546 - 45 - 8.2418
151-160: 527 - 43 - 8.1594
161-170: 502 - 45 - 8.9641
171-180: 535 - 53 - 9.9065
181-190: 508 - 43 - 8.4646
191-200: 366 - 33 - 9.0164
201+: 18 - 0 - 0.0000

Instant Deaths
--------------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 5148 - 180 - 3.4965
101-110: 506 - 2 - 0.3953
111-120: 564 - 5 - 0.8865
121-130: 536 - 17 - 3.1716
131-140: 540 - 12 - 2.2222
141-150: 546 - 25 - 4.5788
151-160: 527 - 19 - 3.6053
161-170: 502 - 24 - 4.7809
171-180: 535 - 26 - 4.8598
181-190: 508 - 21 - 4.1339
191-200: 366 - 27 - 7.3770
201+: 18 - 2 - 11.1111

[Whirlin]

Level 45 in its entirety




Casting stats
-------------


Total Casts: 5703
Total successful: 5610
success rate: 98.3693


Infusions
---------


Casts - Count - Percent
total: 5610 - 479 - 8.5383
101-110: 416 - 28 - 6.7308
111-120: 572 - 43 - 7.5175
121-130: 578 - 56 - 9.6886
131-140: 590 - 47 - 7.9661
141-150: 572 - 60 - 10.4895
151-160: 571 - 60 - 10.5079
161-170: 552 - 46 - 8.3333
171-180: 566 - 51 - 9.0106
181-190: 575 - 52 - 9.0435
191-200: 514 - 28 - 5.4475
201+: 104 - 8 - 7.6923


Instant Deaths
--------------


Casts - Count - Percent
total: 5610 - 218 - 3.8859
101-110: 416 - 4 - 0.9615
111-120: 572 - 12 - 2.0979
121-130: 578 - 19 - 3.2872
131-140: 590 - 18 - 3.0508
141-150: 572 - 18 - 3.1469
151-160: 571 - 31 - 5.4291
161-170: 552 - 30 - 5.4348
171-180: 566 - 32 - 5.6537
181-190: 575 - 23 - 4.0000
191-200: 514 - 22 - 4.2802
201+: 104 - 9 - 8.6538

[Whirlin]

Level 46 in its entirety.

Started hunting defenders, which have a much higher TD, to gain some insight into whether there's a level function, or whether it's just due to lower overall end rolls.







Casting stats
-------------


Total Casts: 7051
Total successful: 4847
success rate: 68.7420


Infusions
---------


Casts - Count - Percent
total: 4847 - 406 - 8.3763
101-110: 692 - 59 - 8.5260
111-120: 735 - 61 - 8.2993
121-130: 710 - 63 - 8.8732
131-140: 672 - 55 - 8.1845
141-150: 687 - 56 - 8.1514
151-160: 718 - 54 - 7.5209
161-170: 579 - 53 - 9.1537
171-180: 54 - 5 - 9.2593
181-190: 0 - 0 - 0
191-200: 0 - 0 - 0
201+: 0 - 0 - 0


Instant Deaths
--------------


Casts - Count - Percent
total: 4847 - 135 - 2.7852
101-110: 692 - 11 - 1.5896
111-120: 735 - 13 - 1.7687
121-130: 710 - 20 - 2.8169
131-140: 672 - 22 - 3.2738
141-150: 687 - 23 - 3.3479
151-160: 718 - 24 - 3.3426
161-170: 579 - 19 - 3.2815
171-180: 54 - 3 - 5.5556
181-190: 0 - 0 - 0
191-200: 0 - 0 - 0
201+: 0 - 0 - 0

[Versin]

Lvl 47, 40 ranks religion lore:

Casting stats
-------------

Total Casts: 1383
Total successful: 1306
Total warded: 0
success rate: 94.4324

Infusions
---------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 1306 - 139 - 10.6432
101-110: 72 - 11 - 15.2778
111-120: 122 - 17 - 13.9344
121-130: 138 - 11 - 7.9710
131-140: 128 - 11 - 8.5938
141-150: 149 - 19 - 12.7517
151-170: 238 - 28 - 11.7647
171-190: 255 - 26 - 10.1961
191-210: 174 - 13 - 7.4713
211+: 30 - 3 - 10.0000

Instant Deaths
--------------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 1306 - 74 - 5.6662
101-110: 72 - 0 - 0.0000
111-120: 122 - 6 - 4.9180
121-130: 138 - 9 - 6.5217
131-140: 128 - 6 - 4.6875
141-150: 149 - 14 - 9.3960
151-170: 238 - 15 - 6.3025
171-190: 255 - 12 - 4.7059
191-210: 174 - 9 - 5.1724
211+: 30 - 3 - 10.0000

[Whirlin]

Lvl 47, 40 ranks religion lore:


There's an update available for the script that'll break down 151 and above into ranges of 10.

And what was the target?

[Versin]

Ah, I'll get the update. Not consistent targets, whatever the AG sent after me (weighted toward undead).

[Whirlin]

Ah, I'll get the update. Not consistent targets, whatever the AG sent after me (weighted toward undead).

Gotcha. I'm gonna get one more level of data for myself, but I wanted to remove the variable of a potential level impact, and the impact being strictly from a endroll perspective. 'cause at level 46, I started hunting defenders, which I believe are 48, and up til then I was strictly doing workers.

On workers, it appeared that I hovered around a 3-5% instant-death rate on endrolls above 150, but I need to do the maths and figure out whether or not its statistically significant, or just natural variation.

[Versin]

lvl 48, 40 ranks:

Casting stats
-------------

Total Casts: 1481
Total successful: 1330
success rate: 89.8042

Infusions
---------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 1330 - 163 - 12.2556
101-110: 91 - 15 - 16.4835
111-120: 116 - 12 - 10.3448
121-130: 121 - 16 - 13.2231
131-140: 130 - 16 - 12.3077
141-150: 118 - 16 - 13.5593
151-160: 144 - 14 - 9.7222
161-170: 128 - 16 - 12.5000
171-180: 125 - 9 - 7.2000
181-190: 117 - 13 - 11.1111
191-200: 101 - 18 - 17.8218
201+: 139 - 18 - 12.9496

Instant Deaths
--------------

Casts - Count - Percent
total: 1330 - 78 - 5.8647
101-110: 91 - 4 - 4.3956
111-120: 116 - 6 - 5.1724
121-130: 121 - 5 - 4.1322
131-140: 130 - 7 - 5.3846
141-150: 118 - 6 - 5.0847
151-160: 144 - 10 - 6.9444
161-170: 128 - 6 - 4.6875
171-180: 125 - 12 - 9.6000
181-190: 117 - 4 - 3.4188
191-200: 101 - 7 - 6.9307
201+: 139 - 11 - 7.9137

[Whirlin]

Level 47, only against defenders, stats:
25 Ranks


Casting stats
-------------


Total Casts: 5443
Total successful: 4067
success rate: 74.7198


Infusions
---------


Casts - Count - Percent
total: 4067 - 369 - 9.0730
101-110: 586 - 49 - 8.3618
111-120: 558 - 48 - 8.6022
121-130: 526 - 53 - 10.0760
131-140: 538 - 40 - 7.4349
141-150: 560 - 59 - 10.5357
151-160: 556 - 61 - 10.9712
161-170: 532 - 38 - 7.1429
171-180: 208 - 21 - 10.0962
181-190: 3 - 0 - 0.0000
191-200: 0 - 0 - 0
201+: 0 - 0 - 0


Instant Deaths
--------------


Casts - Count - Percent
total: 4067 - 110 - 2.7047
101-110: 586 - 5 - 0.8532
111-120: 558 - 17 - 3.0466
121-130: 526 - 11 - 2.0913
131-140: 538 - 15 - 2.7881
141-150: 560 - 17 - 3.0357
151-160: 556 - 15 - 2.6978
161-170: 532 - 20 - 3.7594
171-180: 208 - 10 - 4.8077
181-190: 3 - 0 - 0.0000
191-200: 0 - 0 - 0
201+: 0 - 0 - 0

[Whirlin]

Level 48, only casting against defenders:

Casting stats
-------------


Total Casts: 6850
Total successful: 5388
success rate: 78.6569


Infusions
---------


Casts - Count - Percent
total: 5388 - 495 - 9.1871
101-110: 701 - 57 - 8.1312
111-120: 681 - 74 - 10.8664
121-130: 698 - 57 - 8.1662
131-140: 716 - 67 - 9.3575
141-150: 698 - 60 - 8.5960
151-160: 659 - 63 - 9.5599
161-170: 682 - 55 - 8.0645
171-180: 503 - 57 - 11.3320
181-190: 50 - 5 - 10.0000
191-200: 0 - 0 - 0
201+: 0 - 0 - 0


Instant Deaths
--------------


Casts - Count - Percent
total: 5388 - 160 - 2.9696
101-110: 701 - 9 - 1.2839
111-120: 681 - 14 - 2.0558
121-130: 698 - 22 - 3.1519
131-140: 716 - 19 - 2.6536
141-150: 698 - 26 - 3.7249
151-160: 659 - 26 - 3.9454
161-170: 682 - 21 - 3.0792
171-180: 503 - 21 - 4.1750
181-190: 50 - 2 - 4.0000
191-200: 0 - 0 - 0
201+: 0 - 0 - 0

[Whirlin]

49 complete, only defenders.



Casting stats
-------------


Total Casts: 6977
Total successful: 5874
success rate: 84.1909


Infusions
---------


Casts - Count - Percent
total: 5874 - 539 - 9.1760
101-110: 730 - 75 - 10.2740
111-120: 715 - 73 - 10.2098
121-130: 689 - 71 - 10.3048
131-140: 693 - 54 - 7.7922
141-150: 711 - 57 - 8.0169
151-160: 669 - 54 - 8.0717
161-170: 708 - 67 - 9.4633
171-180: 659 - 67 - 10.1669
181-190: 294 - 20 - 6.8027
191-200: 6 - 1 - 16.6667
201+: 0 - 0 - 0


Instant Deaths
--------------


Casts - Count - Percent
total: 5874 - 202 - 3.4389
101-110: 730 - 8 - 1.0959
111-120: 715 - 10 - 1.3986
121-130: 689 - 22 - 3.1930
131-140: 693 - 17 - 2.4531
141-150: 711 - 27 - 3.7975
151-160: 669 - 32 - 4.7833
161-170: 708 - 30 - 4.2373
171-180: 659 - 41 - 6.2215
181-190: 294 - 15 - 5.1020
191-200: 6 - 0 - 0.0000
201+: 0 - 0 - 0

[Whirlin]

Level 50 in it's entirety, only casting against defenders. I'm surprised at the decrease from level to level...


Casting stats
-------------


Total Casts: 6409
Total successful: 5617
success rate: 87.6424


Infusions
---------


Casts - Count - Percent
total: 5617 - 450 - 8.0114
101-110: 639 - 63 - 9.8592
111-120: 642 - 55 - 8.5670
121-130: 644 - 47 - 7.2981
131-140: 635 - 54 - 8.5039
141-150: 660 - 47 - 7.1212
151-160: 641 - 57 - 8.8924
161-170: 571 - 42 - 7.3555
171-180: 682 - 48 - 7.0381
181-190: 459 - 33 - 7.1895
191-200: 44 - 4 - 9.0909
201+: 0 - 0 - 0


Instant Deaths
--------------


Casts - Count - Percent
total: 5617 - 171 - 3.0443
101-110: 639 - 7 - 1.0955
111-120: 642 - 11 - 1.7134
121-130: 644 - 15 - 2.3292
131-140: 635 - 13 - 2.0472
141-150: 660 - 23 - 3.4848
151-160: 641 - 24 - 3.7441
161-170: 571 - 23 - 4.0280
171-180: 682 - 38 - 5.5718
181-190: 459 - 15 - 3.2680
191-200: 44 - 2 - 4.5455
201+: 0 - 0 - 0

[Tgo01]

So what is a good point to stop training in religion lore?

[GuildRat]

So what is a good point to stop training in religion lore?

At cap, I've stopped at 101 ranks to work on Blessings for chrisms. I don't run Lich, so I can't put out the data points that the others are, but I think 101 ranks is a good point to pause and take a look at the benefits of the other lores.

[Ceyrin]

Strictly speaking in damage from cleric circle spells, 40 ranks is where diminishing returns really start to set in.

[Aganii]

Could you post some 335 clips with that much religion lore? That is the only thing that would make me go over 40. Even then without tons of summoning lore to get the minimum delay it would be questionable.

[GuildRat]

Could you post some 335 clips with that much religion lore? That is the only thing that would make me go over 40. Even then without tons of summoning lore to get the minimum delay it would be questionable.


From within the dark well of bloodlust, you thrill with berserker's ecstasy as you feel the power of V'tull respond to your prayer. The weapon you need to satisfy your bloodlust materializes before you -- a jet black scimitar that hangs in midair and responds to your pure will.
>
A war griffin tries to spear you with its beak!
AS: +435 vs DS: +582 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +97 = -23
A clean miss.
>
An Ithzir janissary swings a heavy star-flanged mace at you!
With no room to spare, you block the attack with your crested rolaren shield!
>
An Ithzir adept thrusts both palms toward you!
The evanescent shield shrouding you flares to life and absorbs the essence of the spell, dissipating it harmlessly.
>
A greater construct swings a massive arm at you!
AS: +443 vs DS: +587 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +78 = -26
A clean miss.
>
An Ithzir adept closes his eyes while incanting an alien phrase.
>
Divine will surges through you, and you command the scimitar to strike at a war griffin.
CS: +490 - TD: +418 + CvA: +25 + d100: +78 == +175
Warding failed!
... and hits for 35 points of damage!

... 30 points of damage!
Banged the war griffin's right shin.
That'll raise a good welt.

The divine energy strikes the greater construct and the shimmering gold aura surrounding it flickers momentarily.
Divine will surges through you, and you command the scimitar to strike at an Ithzir adept.
CS: +490 - TD: +390 + CvA: +19 + d100: +40 == +159
Warding failed!
... and hits for 31 points of damage!

... 50 points of damage!
Amazing slash to the Ithzir adept's belly!
Nothing quite like that empty feeling inside.
The Ithzir adept is stunned!

Divine will surges through you, and you command the scimitar to strike at an Ithzir janissary.
CS: +490 - TD: +337 + CvA: -2 + d100: +40 == +191
Warding failed!
... and hits for 38 points of damage!

... 60 points of damage!
Quick, powerful slash!
The Ithzir janissary's chest is ripped open!

>l
[Old Ta'Faendryl, Basilica Plaza]
A series of stone benches circles out and around a large oval space to the east. A section of the tiered seats is toppled over at the northern end of the oval, breaking the perfect symmetry of the structure and forming a wall along the edge of the river. You also see a jet black scimitar hanging unsupported in midair, the Kershaw disk, a war griffin that is flying around, a greater construct, an Ithzir adept that appears stunned and an Ithzir janissary.
Obvious paths: north, northeast, south
>
Crackling and popping comes from a greater construct as the golden aura surrounding it flares higher.
>
A war griffin dives down and hooks its claws into you! With a great flap of its wings the war griffin carries you into the air!

Just as the griffin begins to surge upward, it suddenly loses its grip and lets you plummet toward the ground!

You twist awkwardly as you try to break your fall with something other than your head!
... 10 points of damage!
Light blow to your left arm.

>
An Ithzir janissary glares at you and lets out a nerve-shattering bellow!
You maintain your resolve, ignoring the unnerving cry!
>
An Ithzir herald strolls in, humming softly to himself.
>
An Ithzir adept holds his head as he tries to regain his bearings.
>
Divine will surges through you, and you command the scimitar to strike at an Ithzir herald.
CS: +490 - TD: +369 + CvA: +9 + d100: +93 == +223
Warding failed!
... and hits for 44 points of damage!

... 40 points of damage!
Powerful slash!
The Ithzir herald's left leg is severed at the knee!
An Ithzir herald falls to the ground grasping his mangled left leg!
The Ithzir herald is stunned!

Divine will surges through you, and you command the scimitar to strike at a war griffin.
CS: +490 - TD: +418 + CvA: +25 + d100: +44 == +141
Warding failed!
... and hits for 28 points of damage!

... 35 points of damage!
Slash to the war griffin's chest!
Breathe deep, it'll feel better in a minute.

The divine energy strikes the greater construct and the shimmering gold aura surrounding it flickers momentarily.
Divine will surges through you, and you command the scimitar to strike at an Ithzir adept.
CS: +490 - TD: +390 + CvA: +19 + d100: +86 == +205
Warding failed!
... and hits for 43 points of damage!

... 45 points of damage!
Awesome slash severs the Ithzir adept's left arm!
A jagged stump is all that remains!

>loot
>
A greater construct swings a massive arm at you!
AS: +443 vs DS: +540 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +68 = +11
A clean miss.
>
Could not find a valid target to loot.
>
The translucent sphere fades from around an Ithzir adept.
>
A war griffin rakes at you with a razor-sharp claw!
AS: +435 vs DS: +530 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +62 = -10
A clean miss.
A war griffin rakes at you with a razor-sharp claw!
AS: +435 vs DS: +530 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +76 = +4
A clean miss.
>
An Ithzir janissary swings a heavy star-flanged mace at you!
AS: +401 vs DS: +526 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +54 = -42
A clean miss.
>
You feel more refreshed.
>
Divine will surges through you, and you command the scimitar to strike at an Ithzir herald.
CS: +490 - TD: +369 + CvA: +9 + d100: +74 == +204
Warding failed!
... and hits for 43 points of damage!

... 75 points of damage!
Masterful slash to the Ithzir herald's lower back!
Spinal cord and life are just memories now.
The Ithzir herald vainly struggles to rise, then goes still.
The tingling sensation and sense of security leaves an Ithzir herald.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around an Ithzir herald.
The silvery luminescence fades from around an Ithzir herald.
The bright luminescence fades from around an Ithzir herald.

Divine will surges through you, and you command the scimitar to strike at a war griffin.
CS: +490 - TD: +418 + CvA: +25 + d100: +91 == +188
Warding failed!
... and hits for 37 points of damage!

... 40 points of damage!
Slashing blow to chest knocks the war griffin back a few paces!

The divine energy strikes the greater construct and the shimmering gold aura surrounding it flickers momentarily.
Divine will surges through you, and you command the scimitar to strike at an Ithzir adept.
d100 == 1 FUMBLE!

>prep 317
chan griffin
You chant a reverent litany, clasping your hands while focusing upon the Divine Fury spell...
Your spell is ready.
>You channel at a war griffin.
Particles of dust and soot rise from the ground at your feet as you release a pulsating, platinum ripple of energy toward a war griffin!
CS: +490 - TD: +418 + CvA: +25 + d100: +99 == +196
Warding failed!
The war griffin is cloaked in a blinding platinum light and assailed for 161 points of damage!
... 55 points of damage!
Immolating blast causes the war griffin's hand to explode.
The war griffin screeches loudly as it cradles its mangled left claw!
The war griffin crashes to the ground, motionless.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
>
An Ithzir scout fades into view!
An Ithzir scout positions himself to attack you.
The evanescent shield shrouding you flares to life and absorbs the oncoming blow.
>loot
You search the Ithzir herald.
He had a curved crystal-edged blade.
You discard the herald's remaining useless equipment.
He didn't carry any silver.
He had a violet sapphire on him!
He had nothing else of value.
An Ithzir herald's body shimmers slightly, then fades from view like a dissipating phantom.
>loot
loot
An Ithzir initiate strides in, her hands clasped before her.
>You search the war griffin.
It had nothing of interest.
The war griffin decays into a pile of feathers and fur.
>
Could not find a valid target to loot.
>l
[Old Ta'Faendryl, Basilica Plaza]
A series of stone benches circles out and around a large oval space to the east. A section of the tiered seats is toppled over at the northern end of the oval, breaking the perfect symmetry of the structure and forming a wall along the edge of the river. You also see an Ithzir initiate, a violet sapphire, a curved crystal-edged blade, an Ithzir scout, a jet black scimitar hanging unsupported in midair, the Kershaw disk, a greater construct, an Ithzir adept that appears stunned and an Ithzir janissary.
Obvious paths: north, northeast, south
>loot
Could not find a valid target to loot.
>
Your connection to V'tull lessens, causing the searing bloodlust to vanish instantly away from you. The scimitar is gone, the haze of berserking hunger has left you, and you feel drained and tired.

[Ceyrin]

This clip can't be right. Things were attacking you and you were seeing an AS/DS resolution. Everything should be dead by the time the first 319 flare happens. That's why the spell is OP, right?

[Ceyrin]

Could you post some 335 clips with that much religion lore? That is the only thing that would make me go over 40. Even then without tons of summoning lore to get the minimum delay it would be questionable.

I can say with absolute certainty, having the tons of summoning lore (110 ranks) you're talking about, that 335 is fine at 40 ranks of religion. I wouldn't bother going over. I get nearly maximum frame reduction and the extra critical damage increase is probably scaled like 317, where diminishing returns are setting in at around 30-40.