Baseball: National League Wildcard

[Dhuul]

Cubs just beat the Pirates in the 11th, thanks to Corey Patterson's second home run.

I think the Cubs have it under control - Houston has to play two series with the Cardinals, which is a death sentence to their playoff hopes.

Any other thoughts?

[Drew]

Go Marlins!

[Dhuul]

The Marlins are two games back but have an easy schedule with the exception of a doubleheader with the Cubs, thanks to Hurricane Frances.

The Giants have are currently a half-game up on the Cubs, but their schedule is the toughest, consisting of nothing but games against Houston, the Dodgers and San Diego.

I think the Padres are out of it.

[ThisOtherKingdom]

The Cubs also have one less loss than any other wild card contender. They're in command, and they're going to win it.

[Latrinsorm]

It's the Cubs. C'mon.

I'm thinking the Giants, but more than that I'm thinking how depressing it is to watch the Binghamton Mets play.

[ThisOtherKingdom]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
It's the Cubs. C'mon.

I'm thinking the Giants, but more than that I'm thinking how depressing it is to watch the Binghamton Mets play.

Sure, it's the Cubs but I still think they can manage back-to-back play-off appearances. For example, tonight they were down 2 - 0 in the 8th inning. Corey Patterson hit a 2 run homer to tie it. And then in the bottom of the 12th Corey Patterson hit another HR to win it.

They're ready, this is still the Cubs year.

[Edited on 9-15-2004 by ThisOtherKingdom]

[Sean]

I wouldn't count out Houston.

After tonight they are 6-7 against St. Louis not great but serviceable. 8-5 against milwaukee, 1-2 against San Fran, another series against Milwaukee and St. Louis, and 2-1 against Colorado. Thats a combined 17-15.

The cubs play 2 series against the reds, 2 games at florida (I think only 2 I'm not sure what the weird frances schedule is) 1 bucs, 1 mets, 1 atl. They are 2-1 against the braves, 5-4 against the reds, 2-2 with the marlins, and 3-0 against the mets. This would be 12-7.

12-7 (.631 winning %) looks better than 17-15 ((.531) but the Astros played a lot of those games without Carlos Beltran. While I'm not on the Carlos is the next coming of god bandwagon he did show that the Astros were commited to winning and helped turn the team around. Now before I get jumped on with the cubs played a lot of games without woods and prior! who are a combined 12-11 in 35 starts this year, the astros are also without 2 of their "better pitchers" in pettitte and wade miller, who are 13-11 in 30 starts this year. In games without Beltran they were 36-34 (.521) and with him they are 43-32 (.573) and counting. Nomar hasn't made anywhere near that amount of difference (my fuck you to nomar).

Not that any of these stats really matter and its late so I might have complied a stat or two wrong. In the end I just don't think the Cubs will make it and I'm biased towards the Astros. Mainly because I want them to play the yankees in the world series just to watch the yankees tee off on clemens like most of the AL did in the all star game.

[ThisOtherKingdom]

Carlos Beltran has batted .268 with the Astros, and .217 at Minute Made Park.

Beltran has also batted .520 at Wrigely field, with 7 home runs. So I'm certainly hoping he considers this as a potential home next year.

Nomar has batted .298 since joining the Cubs, and has sat out a number of games to rest his achilles injury. He's also suffered a groin injury, and will miss at least the next 5 games.

I don't know the Cub's record since the acquired Nomar, but I know for a fact that it will be better than if they had kept Alex Gonzalez.

[Sean]

.268 with what 22 stolen bases and 23 hrs in 70 games? He also has around 50ish rbis and 60ish runs.

Nomar might be batting around 300 in those 30 games hes played in but only has what 4 homers and 19 runs and 16 rbis.

Correction 23 homers not 25+

[Edited on 9-15-2004 by Tijay]

[Sean]

Also Beltrans with the astros OBP (.383) > Nomars with the cubs (.344) despite his lower batting average

[Edited on 9-15-2004 by Tijay]

[ThisOtherKingdom]

Beltran is still batting .217 at Minute Made Park. That's pathetic. He also has 7 HR there in 33 games in Houston (He has 7 HR in 7 games at Wrigley). 16 RBIs at home also. My point being, Carlos Beltran is an amazing player, but he's been pretty much ineffective as an Astro, and he'll definately be seeking out a different team next year.

[Sean]

The astro's don't play all their games at home but even with a subpar batting average he still has better power number than nomar. But normar bashing aside he was also a great defensive upgrade in center field which you can't take away from him because of his BA.

[ThisOtherKingdom]

Originally posted by Tijay
Also Beltrans with the astros OBP (.383) > Nomars with the cubs (.344) despite his lower batting average

Beltran's played 73 games with the Astros, while Nomar has played 31 with the Cubs. You can't compare their stats head to head.

[Sean]

I didn't bring up nomars stats for head to head comparison ... you did. I just said I don't think hes made anywhere near the same level of contribution to the cubs that beltran has to the astro's even if you scale back beltrans numbers to match his.

[ThisOtherKingdom]

Originally posted by Tijay
I didn't bring up nomars stats for head to head comparison ... you did. I just said I don't think hes made anywhere near the same level of contribution to the cubs that beltran has to the astro's even if you scale back beltrans numbers to match his.

Defensively, Nomar has been an upgrade to the previous player as well. And I brought up Nomar's BA (.298) to Beltran's because it is significantly better (.268). It's not a fair comparison, because Beltran has played about 40 more games in his new uniform. Beltran has turned it on lately, so his BA has increased (.320 in his last 30 days, but still .222 at home).

I still feel that Nomar has been a bigger addition than Beltran, because if it wasn't for the recent 10 game (or so) winning streak by the Astros, they were hovering around .500. And they acquired Beltran way before the all-star break.

[Dhuul]

Hehe, Cubs don't really need Nomar, the way Neifi has been stepping up...he's 8 for 14 with a walk, insane.

Career week for Neifi Perez.

[Cayge]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
It's the Cubs. C'mon.

I'm thinking the Giants, but more than that I'm thinking how depressing it is to watch the Binghamton Mets play.

The Cubs have things under control, they are very consistent in pulling through in the clutch so, watch and learn my friend.

[Dhuul]

The Cubs win again, Zambrano pitches a good game and hits a homer. But Barry is unstoppable, WTF. Fucking Bonds carries the Giants.

[Sean]

Go Stros.

[Nakiro]

Holy shit, people still watch baseball?

On a more serious note, how does the entire system work? I have no clue.

[Dhuul]

grr stros might actually win it, they only have to sweep the lame rockies

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Nakiro
On a more serious note, how does the entire system work? I have no clue. Baseball has two leagues: the National League and the American League. Within each league are three divisions; East, Central, and West. Four teams from each league make the playoffs at the end of the season. Each league sends 4 teams consisting of the champion of each division and the non-champion team with the best record. The non-champion team is the "wild card".

[Sean]

:)

[ThisOtherKingdom]

:loser:

[Sean]

I didn't think we were talking about the cubs.

[ThisOtherKingdom]

That's who I was referring to.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by ThisOtherKingdom
That's who I was referring to.

Isn't that the suck though. A better record than last year ... and not even a wild card.

Then all of the critiques crawling out of their holes bad mouthing Sammy for having a "bad" year.

Bad year compared to a Sosa 2003 ... Still a 2004 season that any other professional would give a nut for.

The time honored Cub mantra holds true ... maybe next year.

[ThisOtherKingdom]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah

Then all of the critiques crawling out of their holes bad mouthing Sammy for having a "bad" year.

Bad year compared to a Sosa 2003 ... Still a 2004 season that any other professional would give a nut for.


I think some of the criticism is due for Sosa. He did have a bad year, he is suffering more injuries, and face it; he's getting old. He can't catch up to fastballs anymore. And I'll be damned if the numbers he put up this year are worth anywhere near $17 million. An average player would be glad to put up the numbers Sosa did this year, but he's a superstar and he certainly didn't perform like one.

[Tsa`ah]

Whose fault is it that he's not worth 17 million? The player or the owner?

Clubs are notoriously short sighted when they sign players getting ready to peak for big dollar long term deals.

I agree he's had a bad year and I doubt he'll have a better year next season; then again ... he's getting old as far as the sport is concerned.

Still, criticism due or not, when you compare this "bad" season, he still out performed most of the field.

[ThisOtherKingdom]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Still, criticism due or not, when you compare this "bad" season, he still out performed most of the field.

That's simply not true. Sosa is not in the top 50 players in ANY major offensive stat other than home runs. He was also 18th in the league in strikeouts. His batting average with RISP is .253 (.183 after the AS break). He has not out performed most of the league by any stretch of the imagination.

And I'm not blaming Sosa at all for the amount of money he makes, he's definately earned it throughout his career. But at this point, they need to ship him on his way and go after free agents like Carlos Beltran or Magglio Ordonez in the off-season.

[Sean]

Assuming magglio returns as the magglio of old.

Sammy turns what 36 this year and Magglio turns 31 in January. While 5 years is a big difference I'm not really sure hes the player the cubs should be targetting.