Really Simu?

[Tgo01]

Every time I open my locker:

You can permanently increase your locker's maximum capacity by up to 600 additional slots through the SimuCoins Store.

Come on! Don't you already get enough of my money? Do I really need to see this bullshit every fucking time I open my locker?

And worst of all it screws up the loot-be-gone script! Aaarrrggghhhh!

[Thondalar]

And worst of all it screws up the loot-be-gone script! Aaarrrggghhhh!

This was their plan all along.

[Taernath]

Just wait until you start seeing 'You can lighten your load with encumberance potions and charms in the Simucoin store!' every time you put something in your backpack.

[Tgo01]

This was their plan all along.

The bastards!


Just wait until you start seeing 'You can lighten your load with encumberance potions and charms in the Simucoin store!' every time you put something in your backpack.

"Don't like that bounty? Get a new one right away by buying vouchers in the Simucoin store!"

"Don't want to pay silvers for the Chronomage service? Travel instantly via the Simucoin store!"

"Have too much money in your bank account? Well bend over, grab your ankles and visit the Simucoin store!"

[Jhynnifer]

Every time I open my locker:

You can permanently increase your locker's maximum capacity by up to 600 additional slots through the SimuCoins Store.

Come on! Don't you already get enough of my money? Do I really need to see this bullshit every fucking time I open my locker?

And worst of all it screws up the loot-be-gone script! Aaarrrggghhhh!

If only they got money for updating other terribly outdated sources of information in the game!

[Neovik1]

Don't worry... Simu never listens to complaints or cares what we think, just as long as people find this to be acceptable and continue to pay them. It amazes me how people think it's perfectly acceptable to pay a monthly subscription just so you can pay them more money for services within the game. Pretty soon you'll be able to just buy weapons and armor off the player's store for cash. If this was free to play with this service, I'd be fine with it. But it's not... The game no longer becomes a game when it's work and you continually dump your cash into it for things that are way overpriced to begin with.

The money doesn't even go back into the game. It goes back into Simu implementing new ways to take our money when they should be knocking off things from their todo list years ago. Last time they put out a goals folder on the forums was in 2012. Meh I don't even know why I even talk any more because it's useless.

[Gelston]

Gaming as a whole is coming to this. Look at NBA 2K14 as an example.

[Jhynnifer]

Gaming as a whole is coming to this. Look at NBA 2K14 as an example.


Subscription or FTP with purchasables has been the norm though, for a company that seems fairly mired in the past its fairly annoying that this is how they chose to step into the future. Not surprising, but disappointing.

[Tgo01]

I wonder if my post on the officials will get deleted:


I would like to report someone for OOC advertising. It is to my understanding that OOC talk is forbidden in Gemstone. We can't talk about computers, for example. Also advertising for OOC stuff is forbidden too. Obviously we don't want some elf on the corner advertising the tickets he is trying to sell for the upcoming football game, LOL!

We come into this game to relax and have a good time. We want to unwind, not get bogged down with OOC talk this and advertising for that. This is a game, a roleplaying game. We are playing a role and our role does not know of this other wordly stuff about televisions and moving mechanical modes of transportation known as an "automobile."

So I would like to report whoever it is who keeps telling me to buy extra locker space every time I open my locker. This is obviously OOC spam and worse it's OOC advertising spam.

Please look into whoever is doing this, Simu, and put an end to it. Your justice must be swift and without reservation. Let no one leave without feeling the full wrath of the Simutronics GODS!

[SHAFT]

Gaming as a whole is coming to this. Look at NBA 2K14 as an example.

Or forza.

If people are willing to pay for the services and the customers are happy, Simu is not at fault. I do agree the advertising every time you open your locker is a bit tacky however.

Imagine how Simu feels though? Look at the cash market gemstone has outside of the game. They get nothing from it and they've been tolerating it for years. If it's ok for us as players to buy, sell, and profit from cash sales, why is it a problem for Simu to introduce some items for cash?

[Warriorbird]

I wonder if my post on the officials will get deleted:

Immediate forum ban.

[Neovik1]

I wonder if my post on the officials will get deleted:

My post got deleted within 5 seconds. I got an email pretty much right away after posting it... but mine fell under harassment. Apparently you can't tell someone to climb off of Simu's dick and expect it not to be deleted within a blink of an eye. I'm amazed... if only they actually responded back to their customers that fast. damn...

[Taernath]

Repost it here.

[Tgo01]

Yeah post that shit here.

[SHAFT]

They don't take kindly to criticism and harsh words over there.

[Candor]

The bastards!



"Don't like that bounty? Get a new one right away by buying vouchers in the Simucoin store!"

"Don't want to pay silvers for the Chronomage service? Travel instantly via the Simucoin store!"

"Have too much money in your bank account? Well bend over, grab your ankles and visit the Simucoin store!"

Don't give them ideas! Some of them have accounts here.

[Warriorbird]

They don't take kindly to criticism and harsh words over there.

They never really grasped Web 2.0.

[subzero]

Or forza.

If people are willing to pay for the services and the customers are happy, Simu is not at fault. I do agree the advertising every time you open your locker is a bit tacky however.

Imagine how Simu feels though? Look at the cash market gemstone has outside of the game. They get nothing from it and they've been tolerating it for years. If it's ok for us as players to buy, sell, and profit from cash sales, why is it a problem for Simu to introduce some items for cash?

Because they charge 40 fuckin bucks a month for a premium sub and what, 15 for one character with shit for locker space. Not to mention the volunteer army they utilize as a workforce in addition to not exactly needing state of the art technology to make their games available.

[SHAFT]

Because they charge 40 fuckin bucks a month for a premium sub and what, 15 for one character with shit for locker space. Not to mention the volunteer army they utilize as a workforce in addition to not exactly needing state of the art technology to make their games available.

Why are you cursing? I'm not cursing.

How do you feel about the people who pay the $40 and $15 subscription fees? How about your feelings on the GM's and GH's who run GS as volunteers?

[subzero]

Why are you cursing? I'm not cursing.

They're words. I use them.


How do you feel about the people who pay the $40 and $15 subscription fees? How about your feelings on the GM's and GH's who run GS as volunteers?

Oh, I'm plenty guilty of supporting them. I've had two premium and two basic accounts (plus the extra five bucks for Shattered access on each) from ~2002 up until about November or December 2013. I still think it's overpriced. I think gas is overpriced as well, but I buy it along with a lot of other things that probably cost more than I'd like. As for the people doing the volunteering, I can't fault them if they're using the experience to hopefully further career goals somehow. Other than that, it's not a gig I'd sign up for by any means. I think it's foolish for them to work for the company while they earn next to nothing.

[Drew]

Imagine how Simu feels though? Look at the cash market gemstone has outside of the game. They get nothing from it and they've been tolerating it for years. If it's ok for us as players to buy, sell, and profit from cash sales, why is it a problem for Simu to introduce some items for cash?

This is their fault though. There are a number of games that charge you a fee or percentage to buy or sell items for cash, Simu could easily do this if they wanted to but my guess is it would take calling a tax lawyer and 2 weeks of work and that's not something they'd like to pay for. Investing money to make money sounds ridiculous. At worst they could implement a system like Eve where you can buy game subscription time and trade it in-game for silvers. This already sort of happens with GoA but it's not obvious to a lot of people.



Also what's up with nba2k14 and Forza? I don't really follow game news closely.

[SHAFT]

This conversation is tiresome. Probably the 278th it's been discussed.

[Gelston]

Also what's up with nba2k14 and Forza? I don't really follow game news closely.

For NBA 2K14, the game is 60 bucks. To level up your player's/coach's skills or to even get new clothing items you need VC. You *can* earn VC while playing, but as a GM you only get like 500 per played game. You can buy 80,000 for 19.99. For a level 70 GM you need around 100k VC. This may not seem like a big deal since you can earn it all... Except in multiplayer when someone can just buy tons of it, max out their GM/player and instantly be 10x better than you. (Most people are retarded and spend it all on clothing though.) Even if you are playing as a GM and you earn the 50k VC to buy the team, you will only get an extra 1k VC per season max.

It just puts someone in a position that, while they can grind out that many VCs, it isn't practical.

[Astru]

"Don't like that bounty? Get a new one right away by buying vouchers in the Simucoin store!"
It doesn't quite say that, but there is the line about how many expedite bounty vouchers you have when you look at your bounty status.


Don't worry... Simu never listens to complaints or cares what we think, just as long as people find this to be acceptable and continue to pay them. It amazes me how people think it's perfectly acceptable to pay a monthly subscription just so you can pay them more money for services within the game.
You know what's funny is that yesterday I saw someone using the urchin. To me, this seems to be the most useless feature they're selling because there are maps (and lich), but someone paid for it. I don't use lich so it can be annoying to find things sometimes, but there's no way I'd actually pay for an urchin to guide me around because even the effort of using maps to navigate and walk myself where I want to go is pretty minimal.

[Kaldonis]

I've got some pretty exciting threads on the officials about these new spamming policies.

My favorite idea so far is the SimuCoins store linky shit when you get Nav'ed using a gold ring...

[Neovik1]

For NBA 2K14, the game is 60 bucks. To level up your player's/coach's skills or to even get new clothing items you need VC. You *can* earn VC while playing, but as a GM you only get like 500 per played game. You can buy 80,000 for 19.99. For a level 70 GM you need around 100k VC. This may not seem like a big deal since you can earn it all... Except in multiplayer when someone can just buy tons of it, max out their GM/player and instantly be 10x better than you. (Most people are retarded and spend it all on clothing though.) Even if you are playing as a GM and you earn the 50k VC to buy the team, you will only get an extra 1k VC per season max.

It just puts someone in a position that, while they can grind out that many VCs, it isn't practical.


Coming from the old generation of gamers I would never buy this game. Because it's not a game at this point. When you can buy an advantage in a game it completely loses it's purpose of being a game to enjoy.

[Neovik1]

I've got some pretty exciting threads on the officials about these new spamming policies.

My favorite idea so far is the SimuCoins store linky shit when you get Nav'ed using a gold ring...

They'll eventually start adding breakage to your gear and then give you the option to buy a repair kit on the Simu store.

Also I think this conversation has come up more than a thousand times. Simu eyes lost a lot of players over the years from not listening. They just find new ways to milk the playebase so they can invest that money in other games. Do you really think Simu will support GS if they got a big hit that comes up that makes them more money?

[Atlanteax]

They'll eventually start adding breakage to your gear and then give you the option to buy a repair kit on the Simu store.

Also I think this conversation has come up more than a thousand times. Simu eyes lost a lot of players over the years from not listening. They just find new ways to milk the playebase so they can invest that money in other games. Do you really think Simu will support GS if they got a big hit that comes up that makes them more money?

Sad but true ... thanks Whatley!

[Neovik1]

Stupid phone eyes=has

[Neovik1]

And now my accounts are cancelled. I'm not gonna let GM forum moderators mark all my post as hidden and then tell me they are hidden because of harassment and that this is a family game...

[Tgo01]

I really wonder how many players GS has lost over the years because of their over zealous moderating of the forums.

ETA: I'm sorry, overzealous moderating of the forums to only people who are critical of Simu or those defending Simu.

[Neovik1]

It's the only thing quick about Simu. About 3-4 weeks ago I finally got a response from a support request from EG.

[Kalishar]

The way you say things also goes a long way. Not that I am not in total agreement with your points.

[Narthsin]

Sooo, you're not going to post the stuff that was removed here?

[Narthsin]

... Apparently you can't tell someone to climb off of Simu's dick ...

If you did this literally, then I really don't have much sympathy for you getting posts removed. There's making an intelligent complaint, then there's being a fucking idiot. I hope you're not the later.

[Neovik1]

That's not the post that got removed that I'm up in arms about. I fully agreed with that one being removed. And I didn't complete the sentence on their boards. It was left to the imagination.

[Allereli]

are you up in arms over, if my memory is correct, "This is discussions with Simu, not discussions with Krakii who doesn't even play"?

edit: I was really hoping that one wouldn't be pulled.

[SHAFT]

And now my accounts are cancelled. I'm not gonna let GM forum moderators mark all my post as hidden and then tell me they are hidden because of harassment and that this is a family game...

It's common knowledge how they moderate their forums. You're not a pioneer or anything by canceling your accounts. Many people have had their posts hidden.

There is a reason people use the PC over the official boards. Canceling your accounts because they have a strict posting policy is bit childish. You can't honestly be shocked at their response right?

[Neovik1]

Someone said something, I said this:
"I'm sorry I thought we were posting in "discussion with Simutronics" forum not "the discussion with krakii who doesn't even play" forums. "

They said something else saying it's irrelevant so I responded with:
"The same can be said in the other direction. I'm entitled to my opinion yet someone that doesn't play comes in and dismisses my opinion. So your point is one sided.

Pointing out that Simu is not involved in this conversation is extremely relevant. "


Stupid shit, but enough to annoy me when you look back at the rest of the conversation that wasn't modded. It's not just this though it's the entire state of the game. The only thing I love about this game is the community. The GMs even do a great job with things.. The direction Simu is going and will continue is just leading this game to a slow death where they will continue to bleed their customers dry.

I feel like out of all the cash they get out of us none of it goes towards to the greater good of the game. It get's poured into other projects. When they actually put some time into the game they put things at additional cost with high price tags. I can not even justify this in my mind anymore. They could have kept a lot of people if they appreciated their customers more and added a little more value to their accounts. Would it really hurt to give people a few extra character slots? Everything is more money when it's really not earth shattering to give those features. I can't imagine the monthly cost to host Gemstone is above a price of a premmy account. They can be a little less greedy and I think it would go a long way. But they won't...

I got this is a family oriented game talk from that first post. I very much doubt that I've hurt anyone's feelings from that first post. It was not a personal attack and I thought I was being funny.

Things blow over, if I end up coming back one day it'll be because of the friends I made in this game and the annoyance that I was so close to finishing lock mastery...

[Tgo01]

Krakii is being kind of annoying in that thread and believe me I'm an expert on being annoying.

[Neovik1]

It's common knowledge how they moderate their forums. You're not a pioneer or anything by canceling your accounts. Many people have had their posts hidden.

There is a reason people use the PC over the official boards. Canceling your accounts because they have a strict posting policy is bit childish. You can't honestly be shocked at their response right?

Not shocked at all and I know I'm no pioneer. I'll just join a very long list of people that have already left for the same reasons. Simu will continue to not give a fuck. No changes expected.

[Allereli]

Krakii is being kind of annoying in that thread and believe me I'm an expert on being annoying.

Krakii is annoying in many threads where he thinks he knows things, but he hasn't played more than a few seconds at a time in a decade. See the premium folder where he was arguing about alteration guidelines

[Neovik1]

Yeah I'm confused about his whole situation. Does he just sell his enchanting slots?

[Tgo01]

I think he brags about how he pays Simu just to use their forums.

[Candor]

Krakii is being kind of annoying in that thread and believe me I'm an expert on being annoying.

Hey what about me? I used to have feelings ya know.

[Tgo01]

That Candor guy is especially annoying.

[Latrinsorm]

For NBA 2K14, the game is 60 bucks. To level up your player's/coach's skills or to even get new clothing items you need VC. You *can* earn VC while playing, but as a GM you only get like 500 per played game. You can buy 80,000 for 19.99. For a level 70 GM you need around 100k VC. This may not seem like a big deal since you can earn it all... Except in multiplayer when someone can just buy tons of it, max out their GM/player and instantly be 10x better than you. (Most people are retarded and spend it all on clothing though.) Even if you are playing as a GM and you earn the 50k VC to buy the team, you will only get an extra 1k VC per season max.

It just puts someone in a position that, while they can grind out that many VCs, it isn't practical.Wait a minute... there's a game with basketball AND cyber barbie?

[Tgo01]

Wait a minute... there's a game with basketball AND cyber barbie?

Yeah but I hear there are like no stats. No one keeps score, no one keeps track of free throw attempts and fails. It's all just like a pick up game of stick ball after school, everyone just having a grand ol' time and there are no winners or losers.

[Latrinsorm]

Yeah but I hear there are like no stats. No one keeps score, no one keeps track of free throw attempts and fails. It's all just like a pick up game of stick ball after school, everyone just having a grand ol' time and there are no winners or losers.Just another day on Obama's Atari. :grr:

[Gelston]

Yeah but I hear there are like no stats. No one keeps score, no one keeps track of free throw attempts and fails. It's all just like a pick up game of stick ball after school, everyone just having a grand ol' time and there are no winners or losers.

That is NBA Live 2014. Except, everyone that buys that games loses.

[Donquix]

and believe me I'm an expert on being annoying.

Confirmed.

[Candor]

Just another day on Obama's Atari. :grr:

2600? Or do you think he forked over the money for a 5200 model?

[Tgo01]

Confirmed.

:(

[Kaldonis]

Not shocked at all and I know I'm no pioneer. I'll just join a very long list of people that have already left for the same reasons. Simu will continue to not give a fuck. No changes expected.

Sorry I started a thread on the officials that led to this. I did get Krakii to moderatly STFU with my post proving irrelevance.

I'm also kind of curious to see if I get any of my posts pulled or not. I'm certainly not trying to do that, but Estlid is being a broken record.

It is really worrisome that the only actual GM replies I've gotten is that squelch exists. It really looks like they are saying 1) These notices are not temporary 2) We will just be adding more of them in the future.

I gotta say, that part is concerning enough to make me think about quitting, too. The logic being employed sounds like absolute crazy talk to me.

I definitely get that a lot of this isn't new, but come on. When the game starts systematically asking me for money, I've really got to wonder.

[Astru]

Good news, complaining has worked!

Or at least it's worked enough that they'll say they're looking into it to shut us up.

[Kaldonis]

Message received folks. The conversation is circling now.

SGM Sleken

Holy. Shit. I've never accomplished almost anything in my life by savage mockery.

[Kalishar]

I still hold out hope in that they're testing these new advertising methods to see how and if they work in preparation of going free to play. :D Wishful thinking.

Honestly though, I haven't seen anything that irks me yet, I have no problem ignoring a sentence or two every time I open my locker (which on some days is 20+ times), and it's not like I can't just choose to not go buy stuff if I don't want to.

[diethx]

I still hold out hope in that they're testing these new advertising methods to see how and if they work in preparation of going free to play. :D Wishful thinking.

Awww, that's so cute.

[Tgo01]

Holy. Shit. I've never accomplished almost anything in my life by savage mockery.

Sorry to burst your bubble but that's GM talk for "We're getting tired of this conversation so it's now over. Shut up."

[tyrant-201]

They always do what they say they're going to do. Remember that one time Solomon said if he found out someone was gaming the system to get RtCF tickets they'd have a one way ticket to the void? Remember when a certain person cashed out and quit of their own volition?

Moral of the story: Most of you are just as greedy and downright retarded as Simu

[Tgo01]

Moral of the story: Most of you are just as greedy and downright retarded as Simu

Hey! Don't sling factual statements my way if they are intended as insults!

[Neovik1]

They always do what they say they're going to do. Remember that one time Solomon said if he found out someone was gaming the system to get RtCF tickets they'd have a one way ticket to the void? Remember when a certain person cashed out and quit of their own volition?

Moral of the story: Most of you are just as greedy and downright retarded as Simu

Drug dealer wouldn't be slinging their crack without crackheads.

[Kaldonis]

Honestly though, I haven't seen anything that irks me yet, I have no problem ignoring a sentence or two every time I open my locker (which on some days is 20+ times), and it's not like I can't just choose to not go buy stuff if I don't want to.

Do I really care that much about Dragons of Elanthia or this SimuCoins thing with the locker. No, not really.

But it's potentially the beginning of something much, much worse. If I waited for this stuff to become what I'd consider seriously problematic, it would be way too late and the paradigm shift would be well under way.

[Warriorbird]

Holy. Shit. I've never accomplished almost anything in my life by savage mockery.

I dunno. Random Propaganda?

[Ker_Thwap]

They lost me as a customer when they started the cash for perks crap. Closed both accounts. I've never played the pay for better stuff games, never will. I was hoping it would be a passing trend, but apparently they're expanding it. I should probably just sell my characters and say screw it.

[SHAFT]

They lost me as a customer when they started the cash for perks crap. Closed both accounts. I've never played the pay for better stuff games, never will. I was hoping it would be a passing trend, but apparently they're expanding it. I should probably just sell my characters and say screw it.

What exactly is wrong with it? They're trying to compete in a business they're greatly being outclassed in. You aren't forced to buy anything from their store to play the game. You even said they're perks.

If it means GS will go on, I am all for Simu introducing new revenue streams. Either buy from their store or go on. The people getting pissed that they now have a store that sells online merchandise have their heads up their asses.

It's not like you're seeing papa johns or muffler man ads in games. When the flower girl starts peddling mcdonalds cheeseburgers instead of her flowers you have a right to be angry.

Also, you might want to give up playing video games in general because online stores and dlc are the way of the future. It's here to stay. Madden, WoW, most EA games, forza, gran turismo 6, CoD, all have perks or dlc for extra cash. And those are just the ones I could list off the top of my head. Even dark souls released some dlc after they said they never would. It sucked too and was a waste of money to me but I promise you I'll be getting a copy of dark souls 2 the day it comes out.

[JackWhisper]

I don't chime in on conversations like this, but I've got to say something here.

Simutronics is the *ONLY* company, in the near 2 decades of my gaming career across every single platform dating back to my turbografix-16 my father had, that simply does *NOT* listen to it's customer base. And I don't mean an ignore here and there. I mean flat out, straight up, doesn't give a flying fucking shit what you think. They ignore things that people say, even if it would bring in new business. They do what they want, because it makes their jobs as easy as possible, while keeping this game running in the black, not the red. They don't care by how much, as long as it's a little.

Even Blizzard, owned by fucking Europeans now, listens SOMEWHAT to their customer base. And I despise how far Blizzard has fallen.

Just saying, this is another move that lets them get money, and ignore the game while they sit and fist each other's assholes in an infinity circle. Profit > All, as long as you have to expend zero effort for said profit.

[Taernath]

They ignore things that people say, even if it would bring in new business. They do what they want, because it makes their jobs as easy as possible, while keeping this game running in the black, not the red. They don't care by how much, as long as it's a little.

I think it's more they are deathly afraid of change, and won't implement anything that favors the long term over the short term.

But yes, we've had this conversation many many times and have become exceedingly efficient at it.

[Candor]

in the near 2 decades of my gaming career across every single platform dating back to my turbografix-16 my father had

Hmmmm. Were you a wizard in British Legends or did you play Island of Kesmai? Perhaps Kingdom of Drakkar? How about Neverwinter Nights? Habitat?

It just seems like I should know you...

[Atlanteax]

I think it's more they are deathly afraid of change, and won't implement anything that favors the long term over the short term.

It is not being afraid of change, but that change will require *effort* and *investment of time & $$$* to 'do it right' ... something SIMU is absolutely uninterested in ... despite current and former subscriber all pleading and stating with absolute faith that if SIMU 'just would', the game would be widly successful vs its current state of slow erosion.

[JackWhisper]

Candor my first game online was when my dad was a GEnie customer. Gemstone II. And NWN was a good game, I didn't play it long enough to get into it. My brother did though. The rest of those I never touched. I stick to online MMO's mostly, beginning with GS, and EQ, and WOW, the like.

[Jhynnifer]

It is not being afraid of change, but that change will require *effort* and *investment of time & $$$* to 'do it right' ... something SIMU is absolutely uninterested in ... despite current and former subscriber all pleading and stating with absolute faith that if SIMU 'just would', the game would be widly successful vs its current state of slow erosion.


I'm kind of curious what the DR people have to say about this. Its painfully obvious they get more attention and updates than GS but I wonder if its playerbase is as disappointed with Simutronics as a whole.

[JackWhisper]

Do they have more players? I played DR briefly, but I quit the second my weapon broke into little pieces. I was pissed. I worked for a whole 7 minutes to steal it from a hobgoblin, and it wore down and broke. DAMN YOU LOGIC.

[Warriorbird]

Do they have more players? I played DR briefly, but I quit the second my weapon broke into little pieces. I was pissed. I worked for a whole 7 minutes to steal it from a hobgoblin, and it wore down and broke. DAMN YOU LOGIC.

They don't really have more players. Solomon does clearly favor one game over the other though and has for years.

[Donquix]

I think they were ahead of GS for a while on average but its evened out over the last couple of years.

[Warriorbird]

I think they were ahead of GS for a while on average but its evened out over the last couple of years.

They threw a proposed skill system nerf out, then dilly dallied implementing it, and a lot of people sold out.

[Kaldonis]

I dunno. Random Propaganda?

I don't count getting various interest groups in undergrad trying to lynch me as an "accomplishment."

[Warriorbird]

I don't count getting various interest groups in undergrad trying to lynch me as an "accomplishment."

Ha. Fair enough. I've mostly given up on Simutronics being ahead of the curve on anything but you might get something sorted right. Hope all's going well with the physics et al.

[Donquix]

They threw a proposed skill system nerf out, then dilly dallied implementing it, and a lot of people sold out.

That's why I stopped playing DR, yeaaaaars ago. I was a moon mage and they changed the skill requirements to circle (level) up. So i needed something like...roughly....30 kagillion survival (climbing/swimming/foraging/etc.) to level up again. I was like yeahhhhhhhh....I don't feel like climbing this wall for 3 months straight so I can get another spell.

[Ker_Thwap]

What exactly is wrong with it? They're trying to compete in a business they're greatly being outclassed in. You aren't forced to buy anything from their store to play the game. You even said they're perks.

If it means GS will go on, I am all for Simu introducing new revenue streams. Either buy from their store or go on. The people getting pissed that they now have a store that sells online merchandise have their heads up their asses.

It's not like you're seeing papa johns or muffler man ads in games. When the flower girl starts peddling mcdonalds cheeseburgers instead of her flowers you have a right to be angry.

Also, you might want to give up playing video games in general because online stores and dlc are the way of the future. It's here to stay. Madden, WoW, most EA games, forza, gran turismo 6, CoD, all have perks or dlc for extra cash. And those are just the ones I could list off the top of my head. Even dark souls released some dlc after they said they never would. It sucked too and was a waste of money to me but I promise you I'll be getting a copy of dark souls 2 the day it comes out.

I don't play video games. I'm a fan of text base RP, that's it. I played by the rules, saved up my AG points, got the stuff I wanted, saved my silvers, tried to buy the stuff I wanted. In the interest of keeping the game solvent, I paid for two premium accounts every month even though I only played one character at a time.

This game is broken. You can't play by the rules and get the elite epic equipment any more. The game economy largely functions on a black market economy with professional players farming silvers, buying and selling the nicer equipment for cash. I don't want to be part of it, I don't want to be reminded every time I go to the AG in game that I can just pay some cash and get the same perks, or better ones by just forking out some more cash. If it doesn't bother you, yippee, good for you. It all just kicks me out of my RP groove, so fuck you and your head up your ass judgements.

[Whirlin]

This game is broken. You can't play by the rules and get the elite epic equipment any more.
Why? I worked for every silver I have. I enchanted up my own 7x 2 slot fusion longbow, and bought my 8x HCP Doubles. I bought my own self-charging 613 and 606 items, and purchased a mage rechargable 712. I constantly have enchanting projects underway, mastered alchemy, constantly am pushing Ayveneh potions. I have a pocket cleric and bard that I use to make Chrism gems (almost perfects), which I turn around and sell.


The game economy largely functions on a black market economy with professional players farming silvers, buying and selling the nicer equipment for cash.
It's a derivatives market. You're more than welcome to partake, and you're more than welcome to leave. Silvers have an intrinsic value both in Gemstone, and subsequently real life. Hell, it's estimated that the WOW Gold market is a larger economy than some African nations. It's inherent anywhere there's a scarce resource requiring time to obtain. I'm not sure why you're complaining that the basics of economies apply to a game, especially when you can then realize an actual gain in cash if you decide to sell out.


I don't want to be part of it, I don't want to be reminded every time I go to the AG in game that I can just pay some cash and get the same perks, or better ones by just forking out some more cash. If it doesn't bother you, yippee, good for you. It all just kicks me out of my RP groove, so fuck you and your head up your ass judgements.
Cash for reduction of a 15 minute cooldown, which typically doesn't matter, since if you turn in a bounty at fried, you can likely get to rotate your task once before you're low enough to hunt again. You could always suck it up and do the task assigned to you. At most, if someone spent $1000 on adventurer's guild vouchers, and started at level 0, I'd estimate that they may be able to cap about 2-3 weeks sooner than the person that didn't spend the cash. That's hardly game breaking when you're still considering probably 3 years to cap.


Honestly, I task you with the ability to find any MMO out there right now that doesn't have any secondary cash market for in game currency.

[Candor]

I don't play video games. I'm a fan of text base RP, that's it. I played by the rules, saved up my AG points, got the stuff I wanted, saved my silvers, tried to buy the stuff I wanted. In the interest of keeping the game solvent, I paid for two premium accounts every month even though I only played one character at a time.

This game is broken. You can't play by the rules and get the elite epic equipment any more. The game economy largely functions on a black market economy with professional players farming silvers, buying and selling the nicer equipment for cash. I don't want to be part of it, I don't want to be reminded every time I go to the AG in game that I can just pay some cash and get the same perks, or better ones by just forking out some more cash. If it doesn't bother you, yippee, good for you. It all just kicks me out of my RP groove, so fuck you and your head up your ass judgements.

Not everyone participates in what you call a black market economy (or rarely do so). A lot of us actually just enjoy the game.

[SHAFT]

Ker_thwap, I hope you understand I'm your friend out here amigo. I really am. I disagree with what you say however. If you enjoy the game, enjoy the game. If not, than you should go find something out there that makes you happy.

Also, cash has been a factor in GS for 10+ years. Remember that tsin guy? I leave you with this, as it seems important to the topic at hand:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x176/shaft4783/Mobile%20Uploads/image-2.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/shaft4783/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image-2.jpg.html)

[Ker_Thwap]

Yeah, I took exception to being told I had my head up my ass. I'm still fully aware of what trends are out there. It doesn't mean I have to like them.

Like Whirlin said, I'm free to leave. I'm happy with my choice given the current game climate. I'd love to get three or four thousand dollars for my characters and items, and I could live with the hypocrisy of selling out. I couldn't deal with the thought of my characters (under new management) walking past and ignoring beloved friends in the game.

[Lulfas]

Honestly, I task you with the ability to find any MMO out there right now that doesn't have any secondary cash market for in game currency.

A question of scale here. Cash for Gold exists in WoW, but at a much, much smaller relative level than GS4 because the best gear can't really be bought with gold. Player effort and skill is required to get the best stuff, and at the very least effort is required to get into the upper echelon of gear (aka raid level).

[SHAFT]

A question of scale here. Cash for Gold exists in WoW, but at a much, much smaller relative level than GS4 because the best gear can't really be bought with gold. Player effort and skill is required to get the best stuff, and at the very least effort is required to get into the upper echelon of gear (aka raid level).

In WoW you're competing against others in pvp and in raids to top damage and healing meters. Who are gs players competing with?

[Whirlin]

A question of scale here. Cash for Gold exists in WoW, but at a much, much smaller relative level than GS4 because the best gear can't really be bought with gold. Player effort and skill is required to get the best stuff, and at the very least effort is required to get into the upper echelon of gear (aka raid level).

Do they still drop random BoEs off of trash in raids? That'd be an adequate comparison.

But beyond that, there is no moving scale in Gemstone. There is an absolute level cap, with a strongest creature. There is not a constant reduction of player power, or another mountain to climb like in WOW. It'd be like WOW without raiding... what's REALLY required to clear an instance... aren't you likely to pick that up as part of the grind itself?

[Narthsin]

You know, I find it funny that people bitch and moan that Simutronics doesn't advertise enough. But anytime they advertise anything in game, a thread like this pops up, and a complaint gets made on the officials from some whiney moron.

Derp derp.

ADVERTISE MOAR, BUT NOT TO US!!112

[Atlanteax]

I don't play video games. I'm a fan of text base RP, that's it. I played by the rules, saved up my AG points, got the stuff I wanted, saved my silvers, tried to buy the stuff I wanted. In the interest of keeping the game solvent, I paid for two premium accounts every month even though I only played one character at a time.

This game is broken. You can't play by the rules and get the elite epic equipment any more. The game economy largely functions on a black market economy with professional players farming silvers, buying and selling the nicer equipment for cash. I don't want to be part of it, I don't want to be reminded every time I go to the AG in game that I can just pay some cash and get the same perks, or better ones by just forking out some more cash. If it doesn't bother you, yippee, good for you. It all just kicks me out of my RP groove, so fuck you and your head up your ass judgements.

I shared the same sentiment before giving up on Gemstone.

[RSR]

You know, I find it funny that people bitch and moan that Simutronics doesn't advertise enough. But anytime they advertise anything in game, a thread like this pops up, and a complaint gets made on the officials from some whiney moron.

Derp derp.

ADVERTISE MOAR, BUT NOT TO US!!112

Advertise to draw in new business. Advertising to people already playing doesn't bring the population level up. Derp Derp.

[Tgo01]

You know, I find it funny that people bitch and moan that Simutronics doesn't advertise enough. But anytime they advertise anything in game, a thread like this pops up, and a complaint gets made on the officials from some whiney moron.

Derp derp.

ADVERTISE MOAR, BUT NOT TO US!!112

People want Simu to advertise because they want to see more people playing this game.

[Narthsin]

People want Simu to advertise because they want to see more people playing this game.

I understand that perfectly, but the point remains. People are requesting them to advertise a specific way or not at all, and it's stupid.

[Neovik1]

I understand that perfectly, but the point remains. People are requesting them to advertise a specific way or not at all, and it's stupid.

Are you really that stupid?

Anyway, I'm sure advertising locker space for a 100 bucks per slot would really attract people to play this game more... NOT!! The Simu store will speed up the death of this game. Keep turning on your blinders and telling people to quit because you'll be making up that cost in some way later on. Don't expect old timers to return that left for these reasons and don't expect to draw in a new crowd because no one in their right mind is going to play this game when they see the ridiculous prices. The limited subscription is enough to scare people away.

These changes impact the game in a negative way. Simu makes more than enough off GS to keep it going. They put 0 into it and more than likely pay the price of a premmy account to run the server that they keep downgrading.

Simu can give two shits for their customers like every one has said time and time again.

And yes most games do this, but Simu is far worse than anyone else.

[OldSkool]

I understand that perfectly, but the point remains. People are requesting them to advertise a specific way or not at all, and it's stupid.

People are asking to have them advertise in such as way as to draw in new players - not entice existing ones into spending even more money. There is a difference in scope that I feel you're ignoring.

[g++]

I actually think most games try to expand the player base so I would disagree and say simu is the only gaming company adhering to the "We will just keep raping the same 500 people" business model.

[Narthsin]

This isn't trolling, it's simply making a point that you're obviously too dense to comprehend, Neovik1. You can't seriously fault a company for doing what EVERY OTHER gaming company out there is doing. I think it's good that they're doing something, and that there's at least been some progress.

Enjoy your rage quit break, you obviously need it if you're so disillusioned to reality by the game that you'd quit over a simple in-game advertisement letting you know about a service.

Remember this thread, and the tons of others like it asking Simu to get on board, or discussing stuff?
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?51776-Solomon-on-Micro-transactions

They finally start to change things, and instead of 'Hey cool to see stuff is starting to change a bit.' people complain and rage quit over it. I roll my eyes every time.

I agree there are still a lot of ways things can improve, but raging over it and quitting is just plain retarded.

[Narthsin]

Micro-transaction: When Anticor tries to give you his penis.

Quoted... just because it needed to be.

[Warriorbird]

This isn't trolling, it's simply making a point that you're obviously too dense to comprehend, Neovik1. You can't seriously fault a company for doing what EVERY OTHER gaming company out there is doing. I think it's good that they're doing something, and that there's at least been some progress.

Enjoy your rage quit break, you obviously need it if you're so disillusioned to reality by the game that you'd quit over a simple in-game advertisement letting you know about a service.

Remember this thread, and the tons of others like it asking Simu to get on board, or discussing stuff?
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?51776-Solomon-on-Micro-transactions

They finally start to change things, and instead of 'Hey cool to see stuff is starting to change a bit.' people complain and rage quit over it. I roll my eyes every time.

I agree there are still a lot of ways things can improve, but raging over it and quitting is just plain retarded.

If only it were actually implemented worth a damn.

[Neovik1]

This isn't trolling, it's simply making a point that you're obviously too dense to comprehend, Neovik1. You can't seriously fault a company for doing what EVERY OTHER gaming company out there is doing. I think it's good that they're doing something, and that there's at least been some progress.

Enjoy your rage quit break, you obviously need it if you're so disillusioned to reality by the game that you'd quit over a simple in-game advertisement letting you know about a service.

Remember this thread, and the tons of others like it asking Simu to get on board, or discussing stuff?
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?51776-Solomon-on-Micro-transactions

They finally start to change things, and instead of 'Hey cool to see stuff is starting to change a bit.' people complain and rage quit over it. I roll my eyes every time.

I agree there are still a lot of ways things can improve, but raging over it and quitting is just plain retarded.

Keep calling me the delusional one when the facts are right in front of you. The population continues to trend downwards for the last ten years, thanks to the way Simu treats their customer base. There is a reason they sold off heroes journey and they'll probably sell of dragons of Elanthia. They are just in it for the quick buck while gemstone cash fuels those projects.

If the pop ever up ticked by 1 account at anytime it's because someone got tired of looking for a healer and created a fourth account to multi account with.

And no I'm not quitting just because of the advertisements. I'm quitting because I'm tired of wasting time on a game that a company is fast tracking to it's destruction. I would love nothing more if the game flourished and brought back a lot of people from the past along with new people... But that's something that will never happen because people will continue to ignore the little stuff that will eventually grow into much worse things. God forbid I complain.

The way they continue to milk their playerbase with the Simu store was the ail in the coffin for attracting new people. If a person see's a monthly subscription they would atleast try the trial. If they see the Simu store they are going to think we are fucking nuts for playing this game and wouldn't give the game a thought for trying it. It was better when they only showed that store to members because it more than likely scares people off.

Also why the negative rep? Did I hurt your feelings too much on here?

[Neovik1]

Fuck spell check on my phone...

[Doldrum]

Keep calling me the delusional one when the facts are right in front of you. The population continues to trend downwards for the last ten years, thanks to the way Simu treats their customer base. There is a reason they sold off heroes journey and they'll probably sell of dragons of Elanthia. They are just in it for the quick buck while gemstone cash fuels those projects

The population decline could also just be because text based games are a dinosaur, no? I know it doesnt fit with your ragequit theory but I somehow doubt 25 x $100 for those lockers is really financing all that much for anything Simu is doing.

[Whirlin]

They put 0 into it and more than likely pay the price of a premmy account to run the server that they keep downgrading.


I think that's being very condescending towards the efforts that were done in order to open up a free merchant with Talador, and the portal open to ShadowGuard in Elven Nations.

Just because efforts aren't mechanics driven, doesn't mean that they're neglecting the players. It's incredibly difficult to balance new spells/mechanics with a game that's been accepted as steady state, and relatively balanced (or widely known/accepted/relied upon unbalances). Especially when, as flawed as any mechanics system is, people HATE change.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/workflow.png

When you have a mature player base as Gemstone, when it can be assumed characters have builds that rely on any single element (Hell, there's a spell aiming warrior on the officials... lolofficials), I'd say there's a much greater risk of discontent by introducing mechanical changes to things commonly accepted for the way they are. So rather than completely neglect players, they offer events to make the world more enticing.

[Whirlin]

People are asking to have them advertise in such as way as to draw in new players - not entice existing ones into spending even more money. There is a difference in scope that I feel you're ignoring.

I don't think the best marketing agent in the world that Simu has no chance of affording could really bring in that many new MUD players in this day in age.

What are you more likely to click on? An Ad for Dead or Alive: Lingerie Wet Pillow Fights, where 90% of your CPU cores are dedicated to boob giggle animations, or an Ad showing real combat from Gemstone? Complete with dat AS and DS?

[SHAFT]

A lot of work has gone into GS the last few years with the release of ensorcelling, monks, droughtmans, rtcf, the swan castle thing, night at the academy, kenstrom's current year long story....

I will admit that simu's customer service isn't a+ at times, and they need to figure out a better way to release festival tickets, but I can say for myself that I'm pleased with where the game is and the work that has been put into it. There could absolutely be less interest shown to GS.

I forgot GoS and the updated Voln. Both kick ass.

[Neovik1]

A lot of work has gone into GS the last few years with the release of ensorcelling, monks, droughtmans, rtcf, the swan castle thing, night at the academy, kenstrom's current year long story....

I will admit that simu's customer service isn't a+ at times, and they need to figure out a better way to release festival tickets, but I can say for myself that I'm pleased with where the game is and the work that has been put into it. There could absolutely be less interest shown to GS.

I forgot GoS and the updated Voln. Both kick ass.

Yes a lot of volunteer work has gone into the game.

[Neovik1]

I think that's being very condescending towards the efforts that were done in order to open up a free merchant with Talador, and the portal open to ShadowGuard in Elven Nations.

Just because efforts aren't mechanics driven, doesn't mean that they're neglecting the players. It's incredibly difficult to balance new spells/mechanics with a game that's been accepted as steady state, and relatively balanced (or widely known/accepted/relied upon unbalances). Especially when, as flawed as any mechanics system is, people HATE change.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/workflow.png

When you have a mature player base as Gemstone, when it can be assumed characters have builds that rely on any single element (Hell, there's a spell aiming warrior on the officials... lolofficials), I'd say there's a much greater risk of discontent by introducing mechanical changes to things commonly accepted for the way they are. So rather than completely neglect players, they offer events to make the world more enticing.

Most of that is volunteer work. Simu loves anything they can put into the game that will get you needing more locker space.

[Candor]

A lot of work has gone into GS the last few years with the release of ensorcelling, monks, droughtmans, rtcf, the swan castle thing, night at the academy, kenstrom's current year long story....

I will admit that simu's customer service isn't a+ at times, and they need to figure out a better way to release festival tickets, but I can say for myself that I'm pleased with where the game is and the work that has been put into it. There could absolutely be less interest shown to GS.

I forgot GoS and the updated Voln. Both kick ass.

Don't forget the new SHIELD skills.

[Neovik1]

Kenstrom does a fucking awesome job too! I would never challenge that.

[SHAFT]

Yes a lot of volunteer work has gone into the game.

As much as you think you know where Simu's money goes, you don't know that it was all volunteer work. I think maybe once a long time ago a GM stated his work was volunteer and that has become the consensus thinking. We as customers have no clue if guys like Kenstrom and Wyrom do or do not get paid. If someone provides proof on this matter I'll change my tune.

If it was volunteer work, what is wrong with that? Isn't a good thing that we have people who love GS so much they're willing to put work into the game for free?

Neovik, we all get you're not happy that Simu is advertising their own product within their own game, in order to generate revenue so they can continue as a business. We understand you're not happy.

[Neovik1]

I'm pretty sure GM job postings are on their forums stating it is volunteer work. Nothing wrong with volunteer work at all. It just falls back on my point that Simu does nothing for this game with the cash flow it receives other than milk and give two shits about it's playerbase.

If you think that's my only reason for being pissed than I give up on this conversation.

[Atlanteax]

As much as you think you know where Simu's money goes, you don't know that it was all volunteer work. I think maybe once a long time ago a GM stated his work was volunteer and that has become the consensus thinking. We as customers have no clue if guys like Kenstrom and Wyrom do or do not get paid. If someone provides proof on this matter I'll change my tune.

If it was volunteer work, what is wrong with that? Isn't a good thing that we have people who love GS so much they're willing to put work into the game for free?

Neovik, we all get you're not happy that Simu is advertising their own product within their own game, in order to generate revenue so they can continue as a business. We understand you're not happy.

You do not get it.

A lot of the volunteer work that went/goes into GS was a labor of love.

SIMU regularly spits upon and discards said volunteers as management lacks any genuine appreciation for long-time volunteers, whether proactive subscribers-players or GH/GM-players, aside from the acknowledgement that the malnourished cash-cow is still alive due to them.

[Kembal]

Pretty sure it's not volunteer work, but it's not highly paid either.

GHs are essentially volunteer work though.

[Whirlin]

You do not get it.

A lot of the volunteer work that went/goes into GS was a labor of love.

SIMU regularly spits upon and discards said volunteers as management lacks any genuine appreciation for long-time volunteers, whether proactive subscribers-players or GH/GM-players, aside from the acknowledgement that the malnourished cash-cow is still alive due to them.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/%22Citation_needed%22.jpg
That image is huge... and likely just broke the page... ohh well.

I'm unsure as to what basis you have for that conclusion. How many of the changes/events/etc last year were derived from unpaid volunteers versus paid/compensated individuals? What is your threshold for an adequate amount of volunteer versus full time employee work?

Would you consider it volunteer work if they obtained free Simu accounts?

[SHAFT]

You do not get it.

A lot of the volunteer work that went/goes into GS was a labor of love.

SIMU regularly spits upon and discards said volunteers as management lacks any genuine appreciation for long-time volunteers, whether proactive subscribers-players or GH/GM-players, aside from the acknowledgement that the malnourished cash-cow is still alive due to them.

I understand the volunteer work is a labor of love. Was one of my points.

If you care to provide recent examples of Simu discarding and spitting upon volunteers, I'd be willing to listen.

[subzero]

ADVERTISE MOAR, BUT NOT TO US!!112

I dunno, maybe you're not serious. If you are, you're an idiot. No one has told Simu to advertise so they can sell shit to their current players. The idea is to bring in new players.

[Latrinsorm]

people HATE change.Tell that to McCain.
Dead or Alive: Lingerie Wet Pillow FightsThose games never turn out to have that much boobage, from what I've heard. What I'm saying is, are you going to provide a link or what?

[subzero]

Pretty sure it's not volunteer work, but it's not highly paid either.

GHs are essentially volunteer work though.

My understanding was that they basically were required to put in 20 hours a week and were compensated by having their account fee covered. Some very few may be paid a little more, but I can't imagine it even coming close to what you'd make at a minimum wage part-time job. I couldn't get a Mexican fresh over the border to work for that sort of 'wage', so unless someone wants to chime in with how much these guys are actually making, I'm gonna go with the volunteer angle.

[SHAFT]

People deserve exactly what they negotiate for. If they're willing to work for free for the love of the game, that is not Simu's problem.

People for years have harped on Simu for not paying the GH's or the GM's, but how is that Simu's problem, if the GH's and GM's are volunteering?

[subzero]

People deserve exactly what they negotiate for. If they're willing to work for free for the love of the game, that is not Simu's problem.

People for years have harped on Simu for not paying the GH's or the GM's, but how is that Simu's problem, if the GH's and GM's are volunteering?

I'm with ya. Nothin wrong on their part. If I could sucker people into volunteer labor to get my bills paid I'd do it, too. I think what pisses people off about it is the fact that the subscription prices are too high for a game that could continue to run on equipment from the 80s and they don't seem to put much of that money back into the game(s) that make it.

[SHAFT]

$40 a month for premium is a bit much. I will agree on that. To play this game you don't have to be premium however.

$15 a month for a basic subscription doesn't bother me. Even if they dropped it to $10 or $12, people would still complain.

[Methais]

People for years have harped on Simu for not paying the GH's or the GM's, but how is that Simu's problem, if the GH's and GM's are volunteering?

Because the game could be a million times better if even half of their coders were paid a normal salary instead of just some part time hobby on the side, which would mean more stuff would get done, such as 20+ year old projects that still aren't done, which would mean more people would be playing, which would mean more money for Simu in the longrun.

I think most of it is just people expressing their frustration with how short sighted and stupid Simu's upper management is.

And it makes them feel like this:
http://onlinemarketingwithvince.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/jackie-chan-meme.png

The fact that the players pooled money together to get the game some advertising because Simu refuses to do any also illustrates the same stupidity.

[Taernath]

It's the $15 for one character limit, then $2.50 monthly per additional character that bugs me, and I'm going to guess most people that have issues with pricing. The reason Simu does it is to encourage everyone to just go premium anyway.

[SHAFT]

It's the $15 for one character limit, then $2.50 monthly per additional character that bugs me, and I'm going to guess most people that have issues with pricing. The reason Simu does it is to encourage everyone to just go premium anyway.

Yeah that's a bit much.

One thing they haven't done and would cost them very little, is send out mass emails to to everyone in their database, advertising the recent developments over the last few years. Include an option to be removed from the list if you don't want their emails.

[OldSkool]

I don't think the best marketing agent in the world that Simu has no chance of affording could really bring in that many new MUD players in this day in age.

What are you more likely to click on? An Ad for Dead or Alive: Lingerie Wet Pillow Fights, where 90% of your CPU cores are dedicated to boob giggle animations, or an Ad showing real combat from Gemstone? Complete with dat AS and DS?

I'm not going to argue the semantics of whether or not it would be an effective marketing campaign. MUDs are alive and well, and there is a target audience. Small, I will grant you, compared to practically any other genre of game, but does this mean it should not be even tried?

[SHAFT]

Ads for GS and DR should probably be put up here:

http://www.topmudsites.com/

[Tsk Tsk]

People always think it needs to be marketed towards gamers, I don't know why. I see it being marketed towards readers, personally. I think the best chance would be advertising to people that read Fantasy/Sci Fi novels and such.

[Taernath]

People always think it needs to be marketed towards gamers, I don't know why. I see it being marketed towards readers, personally. I think the best chance would be advertising to people that read Fantasy/Sci Fi novels and such.

More like the intersection on the Venn diagram between readers and gamers. I don't see ads on Amazon's Kindle website being really effective at selling a MUD.

[Gelston]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1VaqNbdn2o

[Alfster]

$40 a month for premium is a bit much. I will agree on that. To play this game you don't have to be premium however.

$15 a month for a basic subscription doesn't bother me. Even if they dropped it to $10 or $12, people would still complain.

I'm still surprised that SIMU was once considered to be one of the top online gaming companies - granted, that has been quite some time. If you follow the current trends on MMO's - gamers are not willing to pay monthly subscriptions to games that aren't made by Blizzard. All of the MMO's that were once subscription base are either gone, or they've moved to micro transactions. Rift, Warhammer, Star Wars, Age of Conan, blah blah blah. These companies found that they would be able to retain a solid player base and still profit without charging a monthly fee.

That's the piece that SIMU is missing - a solid player base. If they went to free to play + micro transactions, they'd be able to gain their player base back (slowly) - all the while feeding on folks addictions. Give the free subscriptions the same as what basic subscriptions get now, maybe take out the weekly gift of luminis (or wtfever it is) and have micro transactions for the gifts, death stings, etc. Before long, they'd probably end up making more money via the transactions than they ever will if they continue to charge people per month.

Look at LOL - a game that's entirely free to play, but makes massive amounts of cash due to players having access to the entire game, but having the ability to purchase nifty upgrades. SIMU should be learning from these types of companies - instead of trying to copy the giants of the industry.

[g++]

Yeah I think that would probably work long term. The thing is the game is so much more fun with more people that it would actually fuel itself, new people bring more new people, bring more new people because when you get into thousands of players the world starts to feel alive and interesting and it starts to advertise for itself because people find more enjoyment from it then sitting around MA'ing in a ghost world like the game feels to me the past decade or so. Compared to the AOL-move to web days its really not even a comparable gaming experience. None of it will ever happen mind you because the entire plan would take a few thousand dollars and some balls, neither of which simu will ever have.

[Ker_Thwap]

Yeah I think that would probably work long term. The thing is the game is so much more fun with more people that it would actually fuel itself, new people bring more new people, bring more new people because when you get into thousands of players the world starts to feel alive and interesting and it starts to advertise for itself because people find more enjoyment from it then sitting around MA'ing in a ghost world like the game feels to me the past decade or so. Compared to the AOL-move to web days its really not even a comparable gaming experience. None of it will ever happen mind you because the entire plan would take a few thousand dollars and some balls, neither of which simu will ever have.

Eh, I'm not convinced. I don't know of too many people who have a problem with the cost being the defining factor as to play or not. I wouldn't even mind paying more for that matter, but only at a flat rate. Like many of us, I've been playing text based RP games for decades. There's something innately wrong to me when you're playing a table top D&D campaign and the GM announces "+10 sword of shamewalking for the first one to hand me $10." You wouldn't put up with it. I've never put up with it, and I never will. If they want to charge a buck or two a game just to pay for the equipment, that's a different story.

Simu might get some new customers if they went with your system, but I suspect they'd lose a few old timers. Hey, it's their company, if they don't mind losing me and want to try for a younger, less easily offended player base, that's up to them.

[g++]

I mean you pretty much already play a game like that unless you think there is a massive difference if the GM forced you to give him 15 dollars to enter his house then charged you an extra 20 for a chair, then as soon as you sit down said "First one to hand me 50 dollars gets a ticket to a festival where a dashing maiden will hand out +10 swords of shamewalking". Cause thats pretty much the game you play now.

Plus I dont see microtransactions working that way, I really liked Alfsters gift of lumnis thing, charge 5 bucks a gift of lumnis per character, they will get the same amount of money from their current base and new people can learn the game without investing money in it and get interested which in turn makes the game more attractive to other people because there are actually people to interact with.

[Latrinsorm]

I played a game with microtransactions (DDO) and you couldn't buy elite gear. The closest thing was being able to buy some (but not all) ingredients to make decent gear, which were otherwise only available as random drops in a once-per-day instance.

[Kalishar]

Most micro-transaction games that I've played don't necessarily hand you uber equipment for cash. Most are "quality of life" kind of upgrades. Things that are nice, but you don't necessarily need. Or if there are upgrades, they are very minor.

Another thing, even if Simu did offer equipment, and major upgrades via micro-transactions... who cares? There is nothing but bragging rights and "fun", which is subjective, associated with having extreme equipment. Other games where there is end-game content, raids, massive encounters, and performance benchmarks there is a definite advantage to having those things. In Gemstone you can pretty much do everything there is to do with 4x equipment and a little hard work.

[subzero]

It's pretty simple. There are basically two varieties of free-to-play models. One is referred to as pay to win where you can buy things that give you an advantage over others and the other is more of a 'true' F2P where virtually everything needed to play is available by playing the game. In the latter situation what you buy are skins, QoL things, and whatnot. In P2W games, you almost have to buy things to keep up.

[Taernath]

I'm still surprised that SIMU was once considered to be one of the top online gaming companies

Well, keep in mind the internet was like the wild west back in the 90's. It was new and exciting and people were willing to pay hourly rates to kill text hobgoblins and cyber in the bath house. It wasn't so much that they were innovative or skilled, Simu just happened to strike some black gold/Texas Tea with their games, and they haven't changed their business model since.

[Alfster]

Eh, I'm not convinced. I don't know of too many people who have a problem with the cost being the defining factor as to play or not.

It's not that people aren't willing to pay that currently play. It's how they are failing to bring new people in, because in the text based gaming industry paying to play is unheard of. Any cost deters folks that would want to give it a shot.

They're better off making it free and paying for perks.

[Kembal]

People deserve exactly what they negotiate for. If they're willing to work for free for the love of the game, that is not Simu's problem.

People for years have harped on Simu for not paying the GH's or the GM's, but how is that Simu's problem, if the GH's and GM's are volunteering?

What if the agreement they have is that they're supposed to be paid, but Simu hasn't paid them in some time?

It occurs to me that could be the case, because I remember GMs from way back saying that it was essentially "beer and pizza money" wages, but it seems now that the general impression is that the GMs are volunteering....I wonder if that explains it.

[SHAFT]

What if the agreement they have is that they're supposed to be paid, but Simu hasn't paid them in some time?

It occurs to me that could be the case, because I remember GMs from way back saying that it was essentially "beer and pizza money" wages, but it seems now that the general impression is that the GMs are volunteering....I wonder if that explains it.

If a guy like wyrom, who put in a ton of time for rtcf, didn't make any money from it, that would be bad. I hope wyrom got paid and I hope kenstrom is getting some for the work he's putting in now. Rtcf raked in dough too.

[Ker_Thwap]

It's not that people aren't willing to pay that currently play. It's how they are failing to bring new people in, because in the text based gaming industry paying to play is unheard of. Any cost deters folks that would want to give it a shot.

They're better off making it free and paying for perks.

Again. Eh, maybe. I have no idea where you're getting your confidence that your pricing plan would work for such an archaic game experience. They could just as easily lose money without attracting a single new player.

I've been around gaming since the pen and paper days, the GEnie days, have tried out hundred of games. In my experience free games attract griefers who have zero interest in adding to the game. They don't care if they get banned, they don't care about the community, they don't care about RP. There can be no real enforcement of rules. The games don't last.

Text based gaming is an old fashioned niche market that will never have anything more than a slowly dying player base. They idea that Simu is going down the road of paid events, paid festivals, paid perks is just a sign of the impending death of the game to me. Even the whole premium perks system is garbage. Premium is the bare minimum of what you should expect in the way of service. I really hate playing games with haves and have nots. I like to compete on a level playing field, and not to outspend someone to win. I guess they could make the basic service even cheaper, just to try to sucker new people in, but I think even that's a mistake. It sends the message, welcome new players and second class citizens!

I suppose we can agree to disagree. I haven't been a customer for over a year now, it's not like they care what I think.

[Neovik1]

I don't think free to play is the way to go at all. You would have people multi accounting every class in the game. Atleast the cost of a standard account stops that some what. I just think they should offer more with a standard account. Atleast throw in 2 additional character slots. I can't really see it hurting them at all. It would show some appreciation to existing customers and would get people addicted to more characters which means good things for keeping people.

The reason I bitch about things is that I really like the game. I just think some things could be done better. I'm not a fan of selling advantages in something that is suppose to be a game.

They've been doing events for awhile now so I have no problems with that. I disagree about new players not coming into the game. I have ran into quite a few new rogues joining the game and have tried to teach them some things. So there are new people from time to time. I've only seen a few stay after the initial month.

[Atlanteax]

I've only seen a few stay after the initial month.

Because after the novelty wears off, the game is about interaction ... and a low population does not compel constant interaction.

Hence the recruitment of new players (or encouraging former players to return), higher pop = more interaction; more interaction = longer-term subscriptions ... it is a self-reinforcing cycle.

Which unfortunately is not a concept that SIMU is able to grasp.

[Methais]

I really hate playing games with haves and have nots. I like to compete on a level playing field, and not to outspend someone to win.

I've never been premium and I had no problem winning GS.

Premium perks are more a convenience thing (bigger lockers, FWI, etc.) than a winning thing.

[Ker_Thwap]

I've never been premium and I had no problem winning GS.

Premium perks are more a convenience thing (bigger lockers, FWI, etc.) than a winning thing.

You can do a whole lot on just a basic account. The problem comes when you're hanging out with a buddy in game for half the day, and a premium/paid event begins. Sorry old pal, I now have to decide if your friendship is more important to me than the chance to get my backpack lightened. What's that Grimswarm invaded FWI, let's go! Oh, apparently not. Excited about Ebon Gate? Oh, right. For me, hanging out with my friends is winning. I'd often skip events I already paid for to hang out with my IC buddies. My lockers were pretty much empty, I paid for premium for the type ahead line, it was all about the type ahead line.

[Neovik1]

It sucks that you can't keep the type ahead line you can purchase with the premmy long term incentive points..need to keep the premmy account active even though at that point you really don't need the extra one on top of the premmy one you get by default.

I earned up to 900 points thinking I'd keep it if I downgraded back down to standard :( wrong!

[Dendum]

I don't think free to play is the way to go at all. You would have people multi accounting every class in the game. Atleast the cost of a standard account stops that some what. .......I'm not a fan of selling advantages in something that is suppose to be a game.

.

Multi Account IS an advantage you pay for. I don't do it but I can certainly see the attraction, it is very popular in Eve Online as well and I never did it there. I see your point about people running multiple accounts if it was free to play though, I had not considered that as a factor but to be honest I might be tempted at free, but a lot of people do it now anyway so I doubt it would change the game that much except for the low level hunting areas being big shotted to death as soon as they released such a feature.

[Jhynnifer]

Multi Account IS an advantage you pay for. I don't do it but I can certainly see the attraction, it is very popular in Eve Online as well and I never did it there. I see your point about people running multiple accounts if it was free to play though, I had not considered that as a factor but to be honest I might be tempted at free, but a lot of people do it now anyway so I doubt it would change the game that much except for the low level hunting areas being big shotted to death as soon as they released such a feature.


Honestly, they'd probably limit the level cap to 15-20 for basic ftp accounts and require you to purchase something or pay a subscription to continue. Kind of like that terrible model of FTP SWtOR came out with. Sure you can level to 50 but if you want to do -anything- it requires you to pay.

[Dendum]

Honestly, they'd probably limit the level cap to 15-20 for basic ftp accounts and require you to purchase something or pay a subscription to continue. Kind of like that terrible model of FTP SWtOR came out with. Sure you can level to 50 but if you want to do -anything- it requires you to pay.

I think they should just force you to stay in Ta'vaalar in free to play accounts.

[Gelston]

They should force everyone to stay in RR!

[Candor]

They should force everyone to stay in RR!

Would anyone actually miss RR if it just disappeared?

[Methais]

Would anyone actually miss RR if it just disappeared?

No.

[Warriorbird]

No.

It killed itself when it begged for boot removal.

[Methais]

It killed itself when it begged for boot removal.

Yes.

[Tgo01]

People in River's Rest actually wanted the boot removed in favor of the current system?

Let me guess, none of those people probably even play anymore.

[Astru]

Would anyone actually miss RR if it just disappeared?
Of course we would!


...also, don't force people to move to RR to play for free, that would just fill the place with idiots.

[Warriorbird]

People in River's Rest actually wanted the boot removed in favor of the current system?

Let me guess, none of those people probably even play anymore.

Except one or two who post here they're long gone.

[Gelston]

I loved RR and I can understand the boot being gone. If the game had population, it'd be just fine.

[Alfster]

Again. Eh, maybe. I have no idea where you're getting your confidence that your pricing plan would work for such an archaic game experience. They could just as easily lose money without attracting a single new player.

I've been around gaming since the pen and paper days, the GEnie days, have tried out hundred of games. In my experience free games attract griefers who have zero interest in adding to the game. They don't care if they get banned, they don't care about the community, they don't care about RP. There can be no real enforcement of rules. The games don't last.

Text based gaming is an old fashioned niche market that will never have anything more than a slowly dying player base. They idea that Simu is going down the road of paid events, paid festivals, paid perks is just a sign of the impending death of the game to me. Even the whole premium perks system is garbage. Premium is the bare minimum of what you should expect in the way of service. I really hate playing games with haves and have nots. I like to compete on a level playing field, and not to outspend someone to win. I guess they could make the basic service even cheaper, just to try to sucker new people in, but I think even that's a mistake. It sends the message, welcome new players and second class citizens!

I suppose we can agree to disagree. I haven't been a customer for over a year now, it's not like they care what I think.

I get the confidence that this style works, because it's proven to work in the gaming industry. Games that couldn't hold a monthly subscription are able to flourish with paying for perks and free to play. These games are quite profitable. Look at clash of clans and other relatively simple phone games.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that going free would attract only griefers and that the griefers can't be punished. Just because a game goes free doesn't mean there's no longer support from GM's, and it doesn't mean you can't enforce rules. Sure, more people playing would mean you're going to see more griefers, but that's the same in any gaming market. I'd suspect if they went free to play, we'd see an influx of people who played years ago, but I could be wrong.

[Alfster]

I don't think free to play is the way to go at all. You would have people multi accounting every class in the game. Atleast the cost of a standard account stops that some what. I just think they should offer more with a standard account. Atleast throw in 2 additional character slots. I can't really see it hurting them at all. It would show some appreciation to existing customers and would get people addicted to more characters which means good things for keeping people.

The reason I bitch about things is that I really like the game. I just think some things could be done better. I'm not a fan of selling advantages in something that is suppose to be a game.

They've been doing events for awhile now so I have no problems with that. I disagree about new players not coming into the game. I have ran into quite a few new rogues joining the game and have tried to teach them some things. So there are new people from time to time. I've only seen a few stay after the initial month.

I think there would be creative ways that SIMU could implement a free to play scenario where multi-accounting would be discouraged. They could do something as simple as not allowing free accounts to spell up other players. That would drastically cut down on the multi-accounting of free accounts.

Again - almost all other MUD's are free, and the individuals running those games have had creative solutions to this problem. It would take a bit of brain storming, but they could easily implement something like this.

[Alfster]

Honestly, they'd probably limit the level cap to 15-20 for basic ftp accounts and require you to purchase something or pay a subscription to continue. Kind of like that terrible model of FTP SWtOR came out with. Sure you can level to 50 but if you want to do -anything- it requires you to pay.

Yah, if they did that then it wouldn't be worth their investment. The free to play + paid perks model only works when the game as a whole is free.

[Geijon Khyree]

If people from years and years ago wanted to play 14.95 really isn't that expensive. I'd like to see a 7.95 super basic option or something for those types, but straight free has it's own challenges.

[Glitch]

Just need to convince hipsters that playing a 90's tech MUD run by an uncaring, unsympathetic company is ironic. We can explode the playerbase!

[Methais]

Just need to convince hipsters that playing a 90's tech MUD run by an uncaring, unsympathetic company is ironic. We can explode the playerbase!

Yes why has nobody thought to hit up the hipster crowd on this?

But do we really want a bunch of hipsters invading the game, trying to get their drinks altered into some weird Starbucks latte and playing GS on a typewriter with a USB adapter?

[Warriorbird]

Yes why has nobody thought to hit up the hipster crowd on this?

But do we really want a bunch of hipsters invading the game, trying to get their drinks altered into some weird Starbucks latte and playing GS on a typewriter with a USB adapter?

It's sort of like a zombie invasion. They would be the most entertaining mobs ever.

[LordBacl]

Quite frankly, Gemstone needs to get with the Free2Play model already. Whether an existing town like RR was used, or a newly created "Newbie Isle" was made, separate those F2P subs from the rest of the game, giving them a fair, fun, but minimized experience. 9.95, not 14.95, then gets you a basic sub and the ability to get the hell out of Newbie Isle. Premium should be a total of $19.95 per, and they should really look into a lot more that can be done with these micro-transactions. Quite frankly. a lot of "free" merchant and alterer work could be shifted to micro transactions. They need to get some fresh blood in this game, and they need to drop prices.

[Taernath]

I would be happy with a regular sub costing $15 and unlimited character slots. Shit, I might even open a second account just to MA.