mid-level training suggestions? [Archive] - The Gemstone IV Players' Corner

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Astru

01-29-2014, 05:55 AM

So I've been training a sniping ranged ranger who casts spells at things when knocked out of hiding or when things get too swarmy.

Thus far, I've been training 1x in ranger spells and trying to pick up a few lores so my spells can be a bit more deadly when I really need them. I'm approaching level 40 though and I've heard that it's better to learn some minor spiritual spells before proceeding to 650 since those can be a bit more useful (it would also mean not having to depend on others for my deep blues). However, I'm a bit concerned about losing the benefits of knowing more ranger spells each level (longer spell duration, better 618, better weeds etc) and I'm not sure how much of a detriment this will be, even if it's temporary. Is this a typical way to go (taking some levels off training ranger spells) and is there a noticeable downside to skipping ranger spells for a few levels?

Also, though it's a bit further away, I'm not sure of the best time to return to ranger spells if I do take the break. For instance, I can see that 120 would be useful, but is it a good idea to go for that at level 59 (I already have 101) before resuming ranger spells?

I've also been wondering if learning some CMANs would be a good idea because I have none of those at all. From a thread last year, it didn't seem like many people thought they were especially useful, but I can see how learning something like Combat Mastery/Focus would be good for defence and something like Shadow Mastery would be good for my preferred hunting style. They're not especially cheap skills though and I don't know much about the benefits of CMANs (mostly what I know about them is that MFIRE is terrible because I tried that early on). I guess I mostly want to know if/when to train these? Is it fine to do as a post-cap goal (which is quite a way off for me) or is it something that one should do well before then?

loxe

01-29-2014, 07:35 AM

Neovik1

01-29-2014, 07:55 AM

I think I stopped at 630 for my ranger at level 43 and upped his spirituals. He was an archer attacking for the shadows. Never really had any problems not training more ranger spells. He still seems to hunt pretty good, but he's more useful spelling me up these days! His original purpose was to give me water walking in the rest... Go figure I got him to that point once I no longer needed to hunt there...

I think loxe has some good advice. Your goal is to stay hidden. If they can't pull you out of the shadows you won't need to worry about dodging things. I still 1x'ed dodge atleast from what I recall. I'll check tonight.

Astru

01-29-2014, 08:45 AM

If stealth / sniping is your preferred hunting style. I suggest ranger spells at 1x, get enough cmans to get rank 5 shadow mastery for 1 sec sneaking. And blessing lores as close to 1x as you can. This will most likely mean dropping most or all dodge, but if they can't find you they can't hit you then add spirit spells and dodge as you get points.
My lvl 64 sniper ranger did exactly this and still has no dodge. When he hunts the stronghold the mastiffs can't find him and he can even hidein front of them.
Heh, dropping most or all dodge isn't a problem. I only have five ranks in it anyway. :P

But you suggest skipping out on the 100 level spells in favour of doing 1x ranger spells the entire time? My training points are tight enough that I can't sneak in an extra spell very easily (I have a hard enough time sneaking in lores).

I think I stopped at 630 for my ranger at level 43 and upped his spirituals. He was an archer attacking for the shadows. Never really had any problems not training more ranger spells. He still seems to hunt pretty good, but he's more useful spelling me up these days! His original purpose was to give me water walking in the rest... Go figure I got him to that point once I no longer needed to hunt there...

I think loxe has some good advice. Your goal is to stay hidden. If they can't pull you out of the shadows you won't need to worry about dodging things. I still 1x'ed dodge atleast from what I recall. I'll check tonight.
Hehe. Yeah, this is part of why I'd like getting some MnS spells in: so I can do my own water walking for RR. :P

It's good to know that it's not strictly necessary to 1x in ranger spells and do well though. I like having spells (and I'm excited for wall of thorns), but 650 doesn't seem so useful... or at least, it doesn't seem immediately useful because it's still a lot of manna at level 50.

Neovik1

01-29-2014, 08:51 AM

Outside my level range though I'm not sure if I am giving you bad advice for later on though. You might do well with this advice, doesn't mean it's the best though. I would wait to hear from some capped people. I don't want to steer ya the wrong way.

Whirlin

01-29-2014, 09:43 AM

Can you just provide a copy/past of your current skills? Some additional insight could be useful.

KneeCapper

01-29-2014, 01:33 PM

Just got my 98th Ranger Spell and I'm post cap. Found the need to deal with maneuvers that I was getting taken out by. Trained up to get the armor action penalty reduced and then went PF to 2x. What a difference that made. Taking Ranger Ranks too 100 and then heading back to CMan so I can lessen them even more. Spell ranks are nice but not needed IMHO but all Rangers are not created equally. Do what feels good for YOUR Ranger. That's what fun about Rangers.

Astru

01-29-2014, 11:19 PM

droit

01-29-2014, 11:30 PM

Whirlin

01-29-2014, 11:48 PM

Ok, some notes line by line:
24 ranks of armor... stopped at Studded Leather? Brig is 30 ranks.
Ambush... It's really expensive to go over 1x in Ambush. While yes, it does directly add to your ranged AS, the rate isn't that good, and there are other training opportunities that would likely be better to spend your points on than the cost at 2x. I'd let this recede down to 1x.
Dodge. I recommend dodge, counter to what Loxe said. As far as training goes, rangers are probably the most balanced class between PTP and MTP expenditures. While Semis can typically get away with minimal point conversions, Rangers do it by far the best of the semis. While 1 additional spell will net more DS than 1 rank of dodge, if you're already MTP starved, it'll make matters worse.
Lores. I've always found blessing to be a higher priority than summoning lore. While I know it's increased potency for spike thorn and imbue-ing, it just doesn't really seem like something worth training pre-cap, unless you're doing a heavy weed-mage build. But overall, I wouldn't really go any further in this. The returns from a second rank in spells is much higher than lores.
First aid is beyond 1x. You can likely cut that down to 1x and be fine.

With the reductions of Ambushing & First aid to 1x, you should have the points to finish off armor use, and pick up some CMAN or Dodge. Archer CMANs are weak, but if you decide to go that path, Loxe's CMAN recommendation was spot on, I'd just get rank 5 shadow mastery (still requires 45 ranks), and then not bother with anymore CMAN training until eventually picking up a rank or two of Disarm in your 90s for preparation for capped hunting grounds. This will also assist with CMAN defense, which will be increasing important level 50+. Dodge will be straight DS... DS is always good.

I'd also recommend picking up those MnS ranks as soon as you unlock 640. You're going to start to be entering the levels where critters actually integrate with spellcasters and such. Ranged characters do not have good ranged DS, so the ranged DS buff from 107, and eventually 120 will help drastically.

So, while I am pointing out these things... nothing is WRONG, and likely nothing will keep you from hunting effectively. They're things that will even out over time if you want them to.

Kaldonis

01-30-2014, 12:51 AM

Astru

01-30-2014, 01:24 AM

Looks pretty solid. Regarding your original question: once you hit 640, learn 120 before heading up to 650. You'll enjoy the utility of the 100s, and 650 isn't going to be useful to you until you have a bit more mana. CMANs certainly have their uses, but I wouldn't worry about those until after 50 or 60; they're not a huge priority for you. Also, get 6 more armor ranks for brigandine.
Thanks! It's good to know I'm not doing anything exceedingly weird/bad. :)

I also appreciate the confirmation on spell circles, it seemed reasonable to me, but this is the first character I've built so it's hard to say whether my opinion of what's reasonable is actually reasonable. Though with the armour, I started training toward brig, but I'm still dilly-dallying with adding ranks and wearing cuirbouilli since I don't tend to die much (the last two times have been at Beacon Hall events, I think).

Ok, some notes line by line:
24 ranks of armor... stopped at Studded Leather? Brig is 30 ranks.
Ambush... It's really expensive to go over 1x in Ambush. While yes, it does directly add to your ranged AS, the rate isn't that good, and there are other training opportunities that would likely be better to spend your points on than the cost at 2x. I'd let this recede down to 1x.
Dodge. I recommend dodge, counter to what Loxe said. As far as training goes, rangers are probably the most balanced class between PTP and MTP expenditures. While Semis can typically get away with minimal point conversions, Rangers do it by far the best of the semis. While 1 additional spell will net more DS than 1 rank of dodge, if you're already MTP starved, it'll make matters worse.
Lores. I've always found blessing to be a higher priority than summoning lore. While I know it's increased potency for spike thorn and imbue-ing, it just doesn't really seem like something worth training pre-cap, unless you're doing a heavy weed-mage build. But overall, I wouldn't really go any further in this. The returns from a second rank in spells is much higher than lores.
First aid is beyond 1x. You can likely cut that down to 1x and be fine.

With the reductions of Ambushing & First aid to 1x, you should have the points to finish off armor use, and pick up some CMAN or Dodge. Archer CMANs are weak, but if you decide to go that path, Loxe's CMAN recommendation was spot on, I'd just get rank 5 shadow mastery (still requires 45 ranks), and then not bother with anymore CMAN training until eventually picking up a rank or two of Disarm in your 90s for preparation for capped hunting grounds. This will also assist with CMAN defense, which will be increasing important level 50+. Dodge will be straight DS... DS is always good.

I'd also recommend picking up those MnS ranks as soon as you unlock 640. You're going to start to be entering the levels where critters actually integrate with spellcasters and such. Ranged characters do not have good ranged DS, so the ranged DS buff from 107, and eventually 120 will help drastically.

So, while I am pointing out these things... nothing is WRONG, and likely nothing will keep you from hunting effectively. They're things that will even out over time if you want them to.
The only thing I worry about when it comes to doing 1x in ambush (apart from the reduction in AS, which as you point out is small) is that I thought ambush also helps keep a person hidden when attacking, which is somewhat useful as well. I don't tend to get knocked out of hiding too much after attacking, but it does happen sometimes even approaching 1.5x. If it doesn't help much for that then going down to 1x is definitely doable.

Granted, if the gains from picking up dodge and some CMANS are greater than having more than 1x in ambush then it also seems reasonable to drop that. Getting knocked out of hiding a little more often could be a reasonable trade-off for shaving some time off going into hiding and sneaking around faster or just plain old not getting hit when I get popped out of hiding.

With the lores, I was thinking to pause at 10 in summoning so I at least have a 50% shot at two rounds of nature's fury, which is starting to be my go-to spell when things are way too swarmy and I've been knocked out of hiding. Definitely doing more in both would be good down the road, but they're expensive right now (even if they're kinda cool) so holding off on more of those sounds like a good idea. I just wasn't sure if I'd be missing out on awesomeness if I do that. :P

Also, thank you for contributing to the growing consensus on the spell circle trainings. I thought it was a good way to go, but getting more input definitely makes me more confident about it.

I guess one thing about rangers is that you can train them in a lot of ways and have them work, which is good because there's a lot of freedom, but then it's hard to know what's the best way to approach it. It looks like everyone has their own approach and maybe none is the "best" but they can be best for a particular character.

Whirlin

01-30-2014, 10:32 AM

Yeah, I had some +22 imflass cuirboulli in a locker and lent it to her. I suggested going to brig as I know that's pretty common, and I think she was slowly working towards that. She worries about the added hindrance and claims to not so far have much issue dying to crits. Also, the armor is light so she can carry more stuff, which she likes. Of course, I've heard rangers being in armor ranging from doubles to chain, so the only thing here is that she's over-trained for what she's actually wearing.

That makes perfect sense. Nothing wrong with that at all.

HOWEVER

You're approaching 50. Leveling in gemstone takes a drastic turn in the 50s. You're no longer really able to hunt critters who only rely solely on AS/DS. You're gonna find yourself hunting in places that have a mix of CMANs, Bolts, CS, etc. Sure, you can likely reduce one of these factors, but you'll still get a much bigger mix. Not only that, but the CMANs tend to be worse off. It's no longer a hunter troll's trip which may induce a minor and some RT, but something like a boar charge which can yield instant death, or a 10 round stun for a nice, slow death. (You can tell what town I typically level in).

Levels 0-50 can be bigshotted relatively risklessly. Post 50 is where the game starts, and there becomes a wider gap between script hunters and manual hunters, in terms of efficiency, and necessary reactions to conditions. That's not to say impossible, but there's definitely increased risks, and you're looking at a couple of deaths per week in a new hunting ground, as opposed to a couple of deaths per level.

The only thing I worry about when it comes to doing 1x in ambush (apart from the reduction in AS, which as you point out is small) is that I thought ambush also helps keep a person hidden when attacking, which is somewhat useful as well. I don't tend to get knocked out of hiding too much after attacking, but it does happen sometimes even approaching 1.5x. If it doesn't help much for that then going down to 1x is definitely doable.

Granted, if the gains from picking up dodge and some CMANS are greater than having more than 1x in ambush then it also seems reasonable to drop that. Getting knocked out of hiding a little more often could be a reasonable trade-off for shaving some time off going into hiding and sneaking around faster or just plain old not getting hit when I get popped out of hiding.

With the lores, I was thinking to pause at 10 in summoning so I at least have a 50% shot at two rounds of nature's fury, which is starting to be my go-to spell when things are way too swarmy and I've been knocked out of hiding. Definitely doing more in both would be good down the road, but they're expensive right now (even if they're kinda cool) so holding off on more of those sounds like a good idea. I just wasn't sure if I'd be missing out on awesomeness if I do that. :P

I guess one thing about rangers is that you can train them in a lot of ways and have them work, which is good because there's a lot of freedom, but then it's hard to know what's the best way to approach it. It looks like everyone has their own approach and maybe none is the "best" but they can be best for a particular character.

Per the Art of the Bow guide, Ambushing has no correlation to staying in hiding when firing. Briarfox states that it is entirely hiding based. Now that I review the values, Ambushing is cheaper to train than I anticipated, but, it would still net you an even trade for a dodging rank. each dodge rank will net you a little under 1 DS.

There's a guide to be written somewhere there. But every class' training is completely different. Like I mentioned in the previous posts, if I had to give advice to any rangers, it would be to never exchange TPs unless you're really on the verge of something awesome.

loxe

01-30-2014, 11:56 AM

Ambush training help you hit the target you are aiming for. E.g. eye shots from hiding.

Whirlin

01-30-2014, 12:02 PM

Ambush training help you hit the target you are aiming for. E.g. eye shots from hiding.

Yep. I was merely quoting his reason for training.

With the ranger bonuses to aiming from 613, I don't think the difference from 1x to 1.5x would produce substantial differences in aiming hits/misses. Either way, I think you're looking at aiming very well.

Astru

01-31-2014, 04:32 AM

That makes perfect sense. Nothing wrong with that at all.

HOWEVER

You're approaching 50. Leveling in gemstone takes a drastic turn in the 50s. You're no longer really able to hunt critters who only rely solely on AS/DS. You're gonna find yourself hunting in places that have a mix of CMANs, Bolts, CS, etc. Sure, you can likely reduce one of these factors, but you'll still get a much bigger mix. Not only that, but the CMANs tend to be worse off. It's no longer a hunter troll's trip which may induce a minor and some RT, but something like a boar charge which can yield instant death, or a 10 round stun for a nice, slow death. (You can tell what town I typically level in).

Levels 0-50 can be bigshotted relatively risklessly. Post 50 is where the game starts, and there becomes a wider gap between script hunters and manual hunters, in terms of efficiency, and necessary reactions to conditions. That's not to say impossible, but there's definitely increased risks, and you're looking at a couple of deaths per week in a new hunting ground, as opposed to a couple of deaths per level.
1. Point taken.
2. Does this mean that when I get to level 50, I won't have to deal with people running in and out of the room as much when I'm trying to hunt and leaving junk everywhere? If so, that's really something else to look forward to. :)

Per the Art of the Bow guide, Ambushing has no correlation to staying in hiding when firing. Briarfox states that it is entirely hiding based. Now that I review the values, Ambushing is cheaper to train than I anticipated, but, it would still net you an even trade for a dodging rank. each dodge rank will net you a little under 1 DS.
In principle, each rank of ranger spells is another dodge rank if one keeps mobility up all the time though, which is why I haven't been training it. When switching to learning the MnS spell for a while, I can see how this will become important and sacrificing the extra ambush is worthwhile (I didn't train it when I just leveled and I definitely had some points to play around with).

There's a guide to be written somewhere there. But every class' training is completely different. Like I mentioned in the previous posts, if I had to give advice to any rangers, it would be to never exchange TPs unless you're really on the verge of something awesome.
Well, I've been exchanging TPs since fairly early on. I'm not sure how I wouldn't unless I gave up on training magic entirely because even fairly basic stuff (1x spells, 1x HP and SMC) meant that I had to convert PTPs to MTPs.

Ambush training help you hit the target you are aiming for. E.g. eye shots from hiding.
Ah, I knew it did something other than just pure AS, I just forgot exactly what.

Kaldonis

01-31-2014, 04:44 AM

There's a guide to be written somewhere there. But every class' training is completely different. Like I mentioned in the previous posts, if I had to give advice to any rangers, it would be to never exchange TPs unless you're really on the verge of something awesome.

Obviously I won't be able to speak from experience of a ranger. However, I can say that in principle, yes, this is a philosophy one ideally likes to achieve. However, in practice I find it often quite challenging. So anyway, I am absolutely not disagreeing here, but it's a statement I have interest in analyzing.

So she's converting PTP into MTP. In order not to do this, we can think about it one of two ways: Train less mental skills, or train more physical skills (it's the same statement from different perspectives, if you always assume "training more of one thing means training less of something else). So what I find easier in the decision making process isn't to decide what I don't want to do (I want to do everything!) but what I do want to do, and then just see how I have to manage to get my goal of what I do want (positivist thinking, basically). Now for sorcerers, one will often just say, well screw it, because even the physical skills I might want are CM (12/8) or Dodge (20/20), and so using PTP usually means using MTP, too. (Although note, I still like to convert as little as possible, thus why I advocate every single sorcerer to do 1x PF and 2x Spell Aiming, but I digress.) What I'm pretty much seeing here is that she can get more PF, more Armor Use, any MOC, or more First Aid. I like physical fitness at 2x of these options. Let's see what that can do.

So, if it was me, and I said to myself, I want to use more physical training points as a ranger, and I'm looking at that list, what I start thinking is, "You know what I want. I want DF Redux up in this piece." And then I drool at 2x PF, and find a way to get it. And maybe since I bought that other cuirboulli for my sorcerer (but never really used it), I'd be like, "Mmmmmm, chain mail so good." Having a Paladin in double chain starting from level 20 has been pretty awesome, I've got to say. And she has permanent access to Armor Fluidity by merit of being married to me...

Presently estimated Redux points: 39+0.4*(57+5)+0.3*(80) = 87

New Redux points: 39*2+0.4*(57+5)+0.3*(80) = 126

According to KP, the threshold for getting Redux is around 110 of these points. Do that, and squeeze in a few more armor ranks for Brig, and you can be much less likely to die hunting.

But still, we then have to tackle the question of what to drop. Again here, I just use a quick glance and see which skills are taking a biased amount of mental points: Spells, Lores, Mana Control. If she was only converting a little, she could safely skip a spell rank or two to get her path straighted. I might get burned at the stake for being a witch by saying that, but Kaldonis is only not a witch because he has a halfling penis (so lame, want to be a wiiiiiiiitch. Settle for Witch Doctor). Anyway, we'll all agree, don't axe your spells. So what's next? 14 ranks of lore is 0/140. All mana control (25 ranks) is 0/125. Toying with Mana Control seems silly when she has a practical mana battery in Kaldonis (11 spirit level 80 in CoL...sooo good). She right now has 286 converted. So, the math says, ditch all your lores and get physical training, 35 ranks with those numbers, which is close enough for hand-waving.

Do I actually recommend this? I'm ambivalent. It would definitely be a viable path, though, and keep you from converting points, and is a nice trade-off with your worries about Mobility going down from no ranged spells, since PF is used in lots of maneuver calculations.

And...you've got FixSkills.

Dendum

01-31-2014, 08:12 AM

If we are not suppose to convert I am doing something wrong, I have 63ptp converted with 62 more waiting to be converted to bring ranger base back to 1x

Dendum (at level 43), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 143 43
Combat Maneuvers...................| 74 16
Ranged Weapons.....................| 190 90
Ambush.............................| 148 48
Physical Fitness...................| 158 58
Dodging............................| 143 43
Magic Item Use.....................| 40 8
Harness Power......................| 143 43
Survival...........................| 143 43
Stalking and Hiding................| 190 90
Perception.........................| 190 90
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 120 30
First Aid..........................| 128 34

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 3

Spell Lists
Ranger.............................| 42
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)

Whirlin

01-31-2014, 09:52 AM

1. Point taken.
2. Does this mean that when I get to level 50, I won't have to deal with people running in and out of the room as much when I'm trying to hunt and leaving junk everywhere? If so, that's really something else to look forward to. :)

You'll still deal with it... although, probably less...

In principle, each rank of ranger spells is another dodge rank if one keeps mobility up all the time though, which is why I haven't been training it. When switching to learning the MnS spell for a while, I can see how this will become important and sacrificing the extra ambush is worthwhile (I didn't train it when I just leveled and I definitely had some points to play around with).

While true, the two are not mutally exclusive, and equations are based off of Dodge Ranks. So you're not going to see diminishing returns from continuing to train it the same way that you'd see from additional training in MIU, due to the equations being based off of skill, rather than ranks.

But still, we then have to tackle the question of what to drop. Again here, I just use a quick glance and see which skills are taking a biased amount of mental points: Spells, Lores, Mana Control. If she was only converting a little, she could safely skip a spell rank or two to get her path straighted. Anyway, we'll all agree, don't axe your spells. So what's next? 14 ranks of lore is 0/140. All mana control (25 ranks) is 0/125. Toying with Mana Control seems silly when she has a practical mana battery in Kaldonis (11 spirit level 80 in CoL...sooo good). She right now has 286 converted. So, the math says, ditch all your lores and get physical training, 35 ranks with those numbers, which is close enough for hand-waving.

Do I actually recommend this? I'm ambivalent. It would definitely be a viable path, though, and keep you from converting points, and is a nice trade-off with your worries about Mobility going down from no ranged spells, since PF is used in lots of maneuver calculations.

You're right. However, another factor that neither of us took into account is initial stat placement, and racial selection, as those can lead to material differences in stat growth, and subsequent TP gain. I did some quick calculations on a halfling ranger with stats placed for growth (which... surprisingly means a 30 starting Dex). It yielded 41 PTP, 45 MTP per level.

My opinion of core training for a ranger Archer Build:
1x Armor Use (5/0)
2x Ranged (9/3)
1x Ambush (3/3)
1x Physical Fitness (4/0)
1x Dodge (7/5)
2x Stalk/Hide (6/3)
2x Perception (0/6)
2x Survival (3/3)
1x Harness Power (0/5)
1x Spell Research (0/17)

Total cost: (37/45)

Yielding 6 PTP left over. Which can be used towards climbing/swimming/etc. However, placing skills for higher Level 0 viability young absolutely yield more of a MTP deficit. Because damn... I don't want to start with a 30 Dex, even if I'm a halfling!

I'm going to queue up a ranger guide after I finish that Sorc guide that I occasionally work on when bored, at which point I'll take a look a little more into the different builds and their PTP/MTP drains from their core training. However, from my experiences with rangers, there are simply less discretionary points to be spent on tertiary skills relative to most other classes, furthermore, they seem to be more a long-term consistent core growth oriented class, and aren't really like Bards who have (comparatively) a ton of extra points, and can run around grabbing tiny goals like an ADHD three year.

So, ignore the PTP and MTP conversion statement for now, I'll re-evaluate and elaborate with maths if it works out.

zennsunni

01-31-2014, 01:10 PM

Dendum

01-31-2014, 07:44 PM

> Ranged characters do not have good ranged DS, so the ranged DS buff from 107, and eventually 120 will help drastically.

Hoogida boogida? I've found my ranger's DS (sniper build) to be exceptional against everything, including other archers. As a GoS member, I've encountered quite a few of the latter. Not sure I've ever been hit by an arrow on that character to be honest.

I get hit by the occasional crossbow in a camp, and I generally aim for the archers first because they cause me the most problems if I get pulled out into the open (long stun=death). Honestly all my recent deaths have been to invasion critters or CMAN's which is why I want to dump more points into PF....and maybe buy some heavy crit padding down the road. I am hoping if I can get to 2x in physical fitness it will reduce some of the CMAN crits...I can almost guarantee and instant death shield bash if I hunt bandits without outside spells...I have not had one since learning sbash rank1, but I think that is because I have been avoiding bandits so hard.

Kalishar

01-31-2014, 11:56 PM

I can almost guarantee and instant death shield bash if I hunt bandits without outside spells...I have not had one since learning sbash rank1, but I think that is because I have been avoiding bandits so hard.

Yeah, I learned 3 ranks shield bash myself after getting a stupid head crit from a shield bash fighting bandits. Made me so angry. I still get hit, though less than before, and the endrolls are usually pretty low. Seems to have had a good effect on me not getting death-critted.