A sad moment on Jay Leno

[Atlanteax]

As any loyal viewers would know... every Monday, he does clips from Newspapers... (that viewers send in).

Earlier tonight, he showed an Advertisement that said:
"Back to School Special : Breast Argumentation"
... and the picture had a model holding some covers close to her, and the caption on the chalkboard behind her said something like "... now I'm getting all As"

.

As an moral individual, I found it appalling, but then realized in today's society, I probably shouldn't be surprised. Sharing what I saw with a few friends, one in California commented to me that parents there are giving their daughters breast argumentation as graduation presents.

Of the two, I think the later is more appalling... while both remain sad affairs.

[Chadj]

The caption was actually "In school, I used to get all A's..."

There's no way I'd get my daughter fake tits for graduation or for any occasion for that matter. Assuming shes been good I might let her undon her veil after the commencement.

Say word

[Blazing247]

Fake tits make me sad. :cry:

They are like sugar-free candy...they look all good wrapped up and shit, but once you get them in your mouth it's nothing but disappointment. God bless all the women with real, beautiful tits out there.

I'd give my daughter fake tits if she really wanted them. If it helps her with her self image, by all means. I figure fake tits won't make her a whore as I'd try to put some good morals into her. Hell, whatever helps her in life. Let's face it, people with a good appearance go further in life than people that lack it.

- Arkans

[ThisOtherKingdom]

Originally posted by Arkans
Let's face it, people with a good appearance go further in life than people that lack it.

I still have high hopes that most people don't view the world as superficially as you do.

[SpunGirl]

Plastic surgery won't give someone self-esteem if they already lack it.... if you need fake boobs to feel better about yourself, then there's more wrong with you than just a flat chest (and there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. Julia Stiles. Totally gorg. Totally flat).

-K

Most of the WORLD? You're probably right. A huge chunk of the USA? You'd be suprised. It is very superficial. I'd love for everything to be based on character and merit, but it's not. I simply chose to play the game. I'll do what I can for myself and my offspring (when that time comes) for them to get ahead. No reason for them to suffer.

- Arkans

Originally posted by SpunGirl
Plastic surgery won't give someone self-esteem if they already lack it.... if you need fake boobs to feel better about yourself, then there's more wrong with you than just a flat chest (and there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. Julia Stiles. Totally gorg. Totally flat).

Julia Stiles is average, then again, she looks like a girl I used to know and now hate. If you lack self-esteem anything that helps you boost that is good in my opinion. Is it a panacea? Nah, but I think it's a step in the right direction.

A boob job to me is no different than getting a nose job, tummy tuck, getting your teeth whitened, or any other cosmetic surgery. All help your physical appearance and there is definatly nothing wrong with doing that.

- Arkans

PS: It's been scientifically studied and proven in some cases that better looking people get better treatment from others, have a higher success rate at scoring jobs and being more socially accepted. It's a no lose situation as far as my would be daughter would be concerned.


-K

[SpunGirl]

Oh, I agree with the helping bit. Personally, I find fake boobs nasty, so you have to think about the people out there who look down on stuff like that as well.... I think it's far more socially acceptable to get your schnozz shaved if it's huge than it is to get some giant C-cups. But you're right, to each their own.

The problem lies with the percentage (how big or small, I don't know) who think that any cosmetic procedure is going to alter their life, make everything different and better, etc.

-K

[ThisOtherKingdom]

Arkans, you're going to die some day. It doesn't seem like you realize that, so I thought I'd clue you in.

The brand name on your clothes don't matter, your height and weight don't matter, your sexuality doesn't matter, and the size of your potential daughter's tits don't matter either.

What matters is treating the people around you as equals, and with respect, despite their differences. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you'll stop being the pathetic human being that you are.

The same goes for the rest of the people who think buying clothes from j.crew or Banana Republic somehow makes them a better person. Wake up.

[Satira]

Ditto to that post.

I wonder how many of you realize you could be doing something to help other people with the money you would save if you didn't shop at these overpriced stores for clothing that other people tell you to like.

There are plenty of used clothing stores that offer clothes that are perfectly fine, clean, and cute, previously worn or not.

Your boss isn't going to look for a Banana Republic label on your clothes. You can still manage to look nice and professional without shopping there.

ACTUALLY, some of these used clothing stores offer VINTAGE clothes and if you give a crap what other people think about you, there ARE some people who consider it to be "COOL" to shop in those kind of places.

In the scheme of things this stupid crap doesn't matter. Look outside of yourself for one second, and you might notice there are other people who have problems bigger than their cashmere sweater and they aren't just standing on the sidelines waiting to judge you.

[Back]

Arkans has a point about “playing the game.” Society in general is superficial to a point. Charisma does include the physical attribute.

I wouldn’t buy my daughter tits though. That would be her deal. I’d buy her a push up bra though. And hopefully I’d raise her in a good enough enviroment that she wouldn’t turn out to be a prostitute or stripper.

[Jazuela]

So for all you females out there who think it's a bad thing to get fake tits:

If you (god forbid) should ever need a radical mastectomy, and reconstructive surgery was an option after you healed, you wouldn't go for it?

Where do you draw the line, and who named you queen of all that is moral?

Personally, I think fake boobs are unattractive. I wouldn't do it. But I wouldn't have to. I'm big-breasted, and if I had the coinage I'd probably get a reduction. They're uncomfortable sometimes, they're gonna start sagging in the next decade and look pretty icky, my bra-straps dig into my shoulders, and I can't wear button-down shirts because I have a petite frame with big boobs.

It has little to do with self-esteem in my case though. I'm pretty comfortable with being me. But I can definitely see a woman with a flat chest wanting to have "something" up there. Someone who otherwise wears an AA training bra wanting a B-cup..I can totally understand that and if I was in her shoes I'd probably want the same.

I do think also, however, that there is currently TOO much emphasis placed on looks. Looking prettier won't make you smarter. It might get you in the door for a job that an ugly person might not get, but you STILL have to prove that you're worth paying every week. If you can't do that, you'll be the prettiest gal on the unemployment line, and that ugly chick is gonna be bringing home the paycheck in your place.

Lol @ helping your daughters self esteem by giving her fake boobs. How about doing your job as a parent and ensuring that her self esteem doesn't hinge on her cup size, or doing it so she doesn't need a huge pair of tits to get anywhere in the world.

[longshot]

Originally posted by RangerD1
Lol @ helping your daughters self esteem by giving her fake boobs. How about doing your job as a parent and ensuring that her self esteem doesn't hinge on her cup size, or doing it so she doesn't need a huge pair of tits to get anywhere in the world.

That's a valid point.

You also put your comments in the terms of your own daughter though...

Atlanteax preaches about the evils of society because he is such a "moral" person. i.e. his shit doesn't stink because he feels superior to everyone else by his devotion to god.

Atlanteax has some serious "Holier than thou" issues going on, and while it's fine to say, "not for my daughter", it's fucking weak to talk about "societal evils" based on himself being closer to god than everyone else.

It's a load of shit.

Instead of Leno, maybe you should be watching Benny Hinn?

[DeV]

Sorry to say but tits, fake or not, can only get you so far in life. Using your BRAIN can take you just about as far as you're willing to go. Some of the richest people in this world are unattractive, it's probably in the majority.

If it's a self esteem issue then hell, go for it. If bigger boobs will make a girl feel better about herself who should stop her. We live in a society where emphasis is often placed on the wrong thing.

[Wezas]

If only it were brains heaving out of the top of women's shirts - the world would be a bett..... screw that.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Wezas
If only it were brains heaving out of the top of women's shirts - the world would be a bett..... screw that. Yeah, tits are great. However, a girl's gotta live and unless the tits are paying the bill she has to have more than cleavage to offer an employer.

Originally posted by ThisOtherKingdom
Arkans, you're going to die some day. It doesn't seem like you realize that, so I thought I'd clue you in.

The brand name on your clothes don't matter, your height and weight don't matter, your sexuality doesn't matter, and the size of your potential daughter's tits don't matter either.

What matters is treating the people around you as equals, and with respect, despite their differences. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you'll stop being the pathetic human being that you are.

The same goes for the rest of the people who think buying clothes from j.crew or Banana Republic somehow makes them a better person. Wake up.

I'm going to die some day? You could've fooled me! Glad I had you come here and tell me this! Shit, I really would've been in trouble huh?

Listen, I treat people around me with as much respect as they deserve. I'll say me please and my thank yous and excuse mes. It's truly not my fault that I have very little in common, if anything, with people that don't have the same values with as me. It's just the way it goes. I think I'll stay around my own kind of person, thanks.

- Arkans

Originally posted by Lady Satira
Ditto to that post.

I wonder how many of you realize you could be doing something to help other people with the money you would save if you didn't shop at these overpriced stores for clothing that other people tell you to like.

There are plenty of used clothing stores that offer clothes that are perfectly fine, clean, and cute, previously worn or not.

Your boss isn't going to look for a Banana Republic label on your clothes. You can still manage to look nice and professional without shopping there.

ACTUALLY, some of these used clothing stores offer VINTAGE clothes and if you give a crap what other people think about you, there ARE some people who consider it to be "COOL" to shop in those kind of places.

In the scheme of things this stupid crap doesn't matter. Look outside of yourself for one second, and you might notice there are other people who have problems bigger than their cashmere sweater and they aren't just standing on the sidelines waiting to judge you.

Y'know, I was waiting for this type of post to happen. I knew it was going to come up sooner or later and here it is.

Using my money to help people? Guess what? I pay taxes. Guess what, I work for it. Is it really that wrong for me to use the money that I worked for on something that I enjoy buying? Apparantly it is.

The very notion of used clothes to me is disgusting. Why would I wear clothes that some person I don't know would wear before me. That's perhaps the biggest scum bag thing in the world. Of course, because I could spend my hard earned money "helping people".

Believe me, no one is going to find you "COOL" for wearing vintage used clothes. If, God forbid, that sort of knowledge got out into the general public, any person doing that would be fucked, so to speak. It gives a horrible public image, and hate to break it to you, but in our society that is gigantic hitter, right besides money. Welcome to the real world, not some sort of hippy love fest.

- Arkans

Originally posted by RangerD1
Lol @ helping your daughters self esteem by giving her fake boobs. How about doing your job as a parent and ensuring that her self esteem doesn't hinge on her cup size, or doing it so she doesn't need a huge pair of tits to get anywhere in the world.

Good parenting only goes so far. I think we're lying to ourselves if we're saying that parents are the panacea to a child's developement. I'm sure there are minority cases of this, but the majority of influences appears to come to kids through the outside. What their friends think, teachers opinions, how they faired on that interview at "Star Market".

While fake tits won't solve the problem, if it gives them more confidence in these social situations, by all means.

- Arkans

[Chyrain]

my baby sister graduated the past june. there actually was a girl in her class who wanted a boob job for graduation and she got them.

i just dont think having major surgery because you want a DD cup instead of your perfectly normal B cup is in any way a smart move. Any time you go under, there's a chance you wont come back. There's no way I'd let my daughter take that kind of chance for her BOOBS of all things.

I mean i think it's a different thing if like one of her boobies doesn't develop at all and the other one does. But for the pure enhancment of perfectly normal tatas (small or not)...I'm not really keen on.

I think we're over stating the actual dangers in surgery here. I hate to say, but this isn't 1930's Soviet Russia, as far as medicine is concerned.

- Arkans

[Jolena]

I'm still reeling at the thought that fake breasts given to a child to 'help her get further in the world and have better self esteem' is acceptable! Obviously we all have our own opinions on these matters, and noone is really right or wrong, it's our lives after all. However, as a parent of a female child, I will tell you that my daughter would have to be 18 and pay for her own surgery in order to have it done. I believe in letting children make their own mistakes when they become young adults, but it's also MY job (IMO) to guide her the best way I can up until that point so she makes a half-way educated decision. Parenting skills do only go a certain amount towards their morals, Arkans, you are right. However you have to show your child by example and it has to start at an early enough age in order to stick in their impressionable minds. Self-esteem is something that has to be developed from day one, period. It's our job as parents to help that process. I can only hope that my daughter will realize she is beautiful the way she is when she grows into a young woman.

Oh and to the one asking if I'd have reconstructive surgery if I had a radical mastectomy? Yes, I would. Because it looks better to others? Yes, but most likely not in the manner you think. I don't necessarily care about how sexually attractive I am. However, having breasts is a fundamental part of being a woman. I would feel less of a woman if I did not have any at all. I can't help that, and if it appears shallow, well then so be it. I'd get them reconstructed even if I didn't have a mate and never planned to again. Just for me. Not for anyone else.

I hate to say it, but it's been acceptable like this in our society for quite some time. You can have the best ideas, have the brightest mind, or have the best personality, but let's face it, if that first smile you give to the interviewer isn't to his liking or if he sees that you're wearing a faded and used shirt, that's going to have a HEAVY impact against you. The same goes for new social settings.

Drill the "you are beautiful as you are" into your child all you want. Hell, I support that, but when the kid gets shot down at a social gather or a job interview even with the best personality or if the kid finds out that a group of others are talking shit behind her back for whatever trait, it's a whole different ball game. You'd better start with the ub3r parenting fix that damage.

- Arkans

[Jolena]

I'm fully aware that society in general has degraded to the point of "If you aren't wearing nice clean well-tailored clothing, don't have a semi-decent body" you won't get as much time as the one who does. However, you don't have to buy name brand clothes at exorbant prices or have plastic surgery to make that happen for you. My children have nice clothing, but is it name brand? Not really. Are they attractive kids? I think so but then again I'm biased. I still believe however that if you teach your children from day one that they have merits and don't have to rely on physical attractiveness to make it in the world, they are better off. I can't count how many times I have dated a really good looking guy who is a total moron and turned out to be mr. nobody. Or been around girls who were beautiful and had no brains in their damned heads. So it goes both ways.

[DeV]

WTF? I went to school with a TON of ugly motherfuckers. I see on a daily basis a TON of ugly motherfuckers, just walking down the street. Most of the top CEO's of companies that I've seen are some ugly motherfuckers. What world are you guys living in where everyone you see is beautiful and flawless.

I know, Psykos's does have a point. While not always will they get beat up in high school, but they won't be in with the most popular crowd of people. They'll be the ones getting told to "fuck off" when asked to a dance, and they'll definatly be the ones to be ripped for buying a dime bag of weed. These are all extreme cases of course, but a poor physical appearance increases the chances of this dramatically.

- Arkans

[DeV]

Those cases are pretty rare Arkans. Some people are so damn ugly they can't be helped. This is a fact of life. The school geek or fat kid usually withstands way more abuse than the ugly kid. Why? The ugly kid is the norm. Why is it that Prom King and Queen, who were leader of the popular crowd in school usually end up with 3 kids, working at the local deli not going anywhere in their life? I know I'm not the only one that laughs at scenerios like this.

[Jolena]

Well I'd have to agree with this theory IF I wasn't a prime example. Yes, kids who were ugly did get picked on and teased. Yes they rarely had dates to dances. However, I myself, while not a beauty queen, was not ugly by any means. I was what you call attractive but not gorgeous. And yes, I got good grades in school so I was concerned about books. However, I never had an issue getting a date to dances, I was not exempt from name calling but in all reality who the fuck is? There will always be someone who calls someone else a name, popular or not. It's a fact of life and not something I can shelter my children from anyhow, period. So that's a moot point.

As for my children having to be damned smart or ending up working in a box for some good looking CEO unless they are uber gorgeous themselves.. yeah ditto what DarkElfVold said. What fucking world do you live in? have you looked at Bill Gates recently? Donald Trump? I mean damn, if you honestly believe that noone can make it to the top if they aren't beautiful, well then you my friend are sadly mistaken and live in a fantasy world.

[Psykos]

My friend, I never got picked on in highschool because I faked being homosexual so I'd just run to the office and make fun.

Bill gates is ugly? I'd fuck em :shrug:

Love,

Psykos

[Edited on 9-15-2004 by Tsa`ah]

A guarantee that an ugly kid is going to be less popular/get more dates/going to get called more names than a good looking one. Getting ahead in life isn't 100% about look, a lot is on talent, but believe me, first impression a lot of the time ARE everything. You just have to work all the harder if you have something working against you.

- Arkans

[Jolena]

I do believe that Arkans, it would be idiotic for me to say otherwise. We all know that even if we don't admit it, the first impression of someone is important. I would venture to say all of us have seen someone we found physically attractive and been interested in getting to know them immediately. On that same note, I'm sure all of us have seen someone who was not very physically attractive in our eyes and so we passed them by only to find out later they were very nice, loving, intelligent and interesting people.
I'm not so naive as to think that they will not have to work harder to get popularity, dates, etc. if you are not physically attractive. However, the statement that you have to be UBER smart or GORGEOUS to make it in the world is just ridiculous. And no, I don't believe for one moment that if you aren't attractive you will end up working in a box for some gorgeous CEO, automatically. That's insane.

Also, I'm sure you have noticed Psykos but I am not going to respond to your posts so you could stop anytime now. If not, go ahead and continue I dont' care. It will just fall on deaf ears as you have nothing worthwhile to say in my opinion.

[Edited on 9-14-2004 by Jolena]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by ThisOtherKingdom
your height and weight don't matterTell that to the pall bearers. [/morbid]
What matters is treating the people around you as equals, and with respect, despite their differences.Seriously. With enough butter and salt, everyone tastes the same. (I'm just joshing, I actually agree with TOK's sentiments. :))
Originally posted by Arkans
but let's face it, if that first smile you give to the interviewer isn't to his liking or if he sees that you're wearing a faded and used shirt, that's going to have a HEAVY impact against you.I think you ought to add "if the interviewer is Arkans" to the end of that sentence.

Boob size doesn't make a woman physically attractive. A good shape is like 300 times more important than an arbitrary number.

Jolena: the mods of each folder are listed on the main page, to the right. The mods of this folder are Peam and Miss X.

Not just me (I admit, if I am interviewing someone, their appearance will play a roll), but for a lot of other interviewers as well. For instance, my mother worked in the Department of Public Health in Boston. When she did interviews, you better believe me she looked at physical appearances. Seeing as though co-workers usually talk to each other about such things, this was, indeed, one of the standards.

A friend of mine hires people for a small business. Doesn't have a bad office or positions in said office, I asked him the same question and you better believe that he thought appearance was important.

Do you need to be ub3r gorgeous? No, but being above average, at least, is something to strive for.

- Arkans

[Jolena]

I'm sorry, I guess we have to agree to disagree. Because although I agree that coming in with good hygeine, nice clean clothing, a smile that shows clean shiny teeth, having well groomed hair and smelling good is something interviewers look for I don't think that being 'above average' in the looks department plays as much of a roll as you think it does in their chances. Unless maybe it's something like a spokesperson, PR, television personality, actor/actress or modelling. Then, well that is a given.

[Psykos]

Jolena,

I can't believe that you actually think that personality matters os much -- have you seen these recent reality TV shows where the hot woman dressess up as a fat woman and then gets rejected by the guys? Its everywhere. Its... dare I say, reality?

Psykos

[Jolena]

Yes well it would be a relavent comment if we were talking about the potential of a person to get dates as a ugly person. However the main topic I thought, was whether or not your looks would change your chances of getting further in life. Dating is a small part of suceeding in life. I consider career, accomplishments, property etc. to be the most vital to 'getting further'. If we were discussing how easy it is to get a date if you are ugly, then yeah I would have to say that people who are above average in the looks department have a better chance of getting a date initially. If they are morons though, have no charisma and can't hold a conversation intelligently for their life, then eventually that date will end as well. *shrugs* IMO anyhow.

[The Cat In The Hat]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
Plastic surgery won't give someone self-esteem if they already lack it.... if you need fake boobs to feel better about yourself, then there's more wrong with you than just a flat chest (and there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. Julia Stiles. Totally gorg. Totally flat).

-K

Agreed. My friend Claudia just had them done about 3 months ago. She has a really BAD self esteem problem even though shes beautiful. She had great self esteem for about 2 weeks, now shes back to being a basket case despite the $6000.00 surgery.

[Miss X]

Psykos dearest, I would very much appreciate it if you could try to keep on topic. I don't want to have to get my deleting finger out and remove your drivel but if you continue I am afraid I will have to.

Thanks!

[DeV]

Originally posted by Jolena
Yes well it would be a relavent comment if we were talking about the potential of a person to get dates as a ugly person. However the main topic I thought, was whether or not your looks would change your chances of getting further in life. Dating is a small part of suceeding in life. I consider career, accomplishments, property etc. to be the most vital to 'getting further'. If we were discussing how easy it is to get a date if you are ugly, then yeah I would have to say that people who are above average in the looks department have a better chance of getting a date initially. If they are morons though, have no charisma and can't hold a conversation intelligently for their life, then eventually that date will end as well. *shrugs* IMO anyhow. :yes: True.

[Psykos]

Miss X,

Surely my dear.

Your humble fan,

Psykos

As I said, I know how the interview process works. Having good looks and good fashion plays an incredibly large part in getting a job. Saying anything else is pretty much living in a fantasy world.

- Arkans

[ThisOtherKingdom]

Originally posted by Arkans
Not just me (I admit, if I am interviewing someone, their appearance will play a roll), but for a lot of other interviewers as well. For instance, my mother worked in the Department of Public Health in Boston. When she did interviews, you better believe me she looked at physical appearances. Seeing as though co-workers usually talk to each other about such things, this was, indeed, one of the standards.

A friend of mine hires people for a small business. Doesn't have a bad office or positions in said office, I asked him the same question and you better believe that he thought appearance was important.

Did you just ask them if appearance was important? In that case, I'm not surprised they said yes. No matter how attractive you are, you should show up to a job interview with good hygiene (As Jolena said) and clean clothing. I'm sure that's what your friend and mother meant by looking at appearance.

If they were giving more attractive, less qualiified people the jobs, however, then they have problems.

Ah, I wasn't clear enough. Good fashion and good physical looks. Hygene is like mandatory. You can't get plus points for it, only negative.

- Arkans

[Jazuela]

It really depends on what kind of job you want to get. You can get away with purple-streaked hair and an eyebrow ring at a Star Market interview (though you can't wear the ring while you're working)...

But you won't get past the secretary if you show up at a law office like that, looking for a job as a legal aide.

Attractiveness is subjective - however there are certain things employers of all kinds look for: Does this person over-do the makeup? Does this person UNDER-do it? Does he or she play up his/her more attractive features and play down the less attractive ones?

If the applicant is obese - do they wear a mumu-style tent dress and/or ill-fitting baggy pants, or do they attempt to wear appropriate office wear in the right size and shape for their body?

If the applicant is flat-chested - do they layer their clothes to take the focus off their "lack?" If the applicant is "well endowed" do they wear solids and shoulder pads that give a "lift" to the viewer's perspective, or are they showing up in cinched waisted jackets that direct the attention to the chest?

An interviewer might not know the difference - but he will know what he sees. He will know where his own eyes are looking (or not looking, or avoiding intentionally). And yes- he WILL judge these things during the interview process.

Looks count. Anyone who thinks they don't, hasn't looked much past the local Burger King for employment.

Regarding attractiveness vs. dating: Someone who grows up being continuously rejected due to being unattractive is more likely to have issues with their self-esteem, than someone who doesn't. I never dated in High School mostly because I hung out with a group of people and we all did pretty much everything as a group. "Dating" wasn't really all that important other than the Prom. People became couples based on the groups they hung out with, not because of asking someone out on a date. So we rarely suffered from self-esteem issues just because of rejection.

But once you hit your 20's and are out of school and in college, dating becomes more of a reality, and more significant in shaping the life you will lead in your 30s and 40s and up. Constant rejection can cause socialization problems. And socialization problems can also be detrimental in the workplace. An employer won't hire someone who is difficult to get along with, or has anger issues, or seems apathetic or disinterested. They will also not hire someone who is over-eager and jumpy and stressfully cheerful.

And yes - how you appear to others while growing up has a HUGE amount to do with this. You can't learn social skills if no one will allow you to socialize with them. And when you're young, looks ARE everything.

[Jolena]

I agree that during highschool and even into your 20's looks do mean a lot. But that's not what was up for discussion. We were mainly discussing how your physical attractiveness, or lack thereof, affects your ability to get a job. As I stated before, and I still stand on this point of view, hygene (sp?), appropriate clothing, condition of hair, etc.. is important for obvious reasons. However if someone is not beautiful or even attractive, I still believe that if they present themselves correctly then their chances for a job aren't that hindered. Unless of course, they are applying for one of the jobs I listed in a previous post.

[AnticorRifling]

Looks aren't everything when you're young. When I was 5 I didn't have the stigma of being shallow. I would play with anyone. As I grew older the shallowness set in.

Looks don't mean shit when you're in the sandbox. Unless you have a different definition of young I think your view is slightly off on this one.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Jazuela
An interviewer might not know the difference - but he will know what he sees. I just read what you said and I still have no idea what you're talking about. The only thing that bothers me is when young ladies wear shirts with writing across the chest, because c'mon, that's hardly fair. Lifting my perspective? :?:

[Betheny]

If you can't accept yourself the way you are, how can you expect others to accept you, either the way you are or the way you pay to be made?

[Edited on 9-14-2004 by Maimara]

[Faent]

>>The very notion of used clothes to me is disgusting. Why would I wear clothes that some person I don't know would wear before me. That's perhaps the biggest scum bag thing in the world. -Arkans

You apparently managed to get psychologically raped by at some point in your life. Your brain just doesn't function. There might be a glimmer of hope, however, since such damage can, at least in principle, be reversed.

>>Believe me, no one is going to find you "COOL" for wearing vintage used clothes. -Arkans

I didn't know you spoke for everyone. Oh wait, you don't.

-Scott

[CrystalTears]

Not everyone has the kind of money to spend on trendy threads. Some people don't want to advertise for designers, we just want to be dressed and look presentable. As long as they fit right and cover my ass and titties, I don't give a shit where it came from.

Having to wear trendy clothes just screams stuck-up to me, but that's my opinion, I could care less what anyone wears, as long as they're happy.

As for the fake boobs, I wouldn't do that for my daughter if she's anything younger than 21 (then again my daughter probably won't need it, heh). At that point if she still wants it, I'll help her and support her and explain to her the pros and cons. It's her body, do with it as she pleases, but not as long as she's underage and living in my home. I don't feel there's a need for that kind of cosmetic surgery for ANY child unless they were disfigured for some reason. But for vanity purposes? Hell no. That's a bit too much for me.

[AnticorRifling]

I love me some goodwill.

[AnticorRifling]

And fake boobs... who cares about boobs as long as she has a big pooper. Boobs are a distant cry to a great legs and a nice ass.

[Jolena]

who cares about boobs as long as she has a big pooper


You..worry me sometimes. Really. :(

. I think we're lying to ourselves if we're saying that parents are the panacea to a child's developement. I'm sure there are minority cases of this, but the majority of influences appears to come to kids through the outside. What their friends think, teachers opinions, how they faired on that interview at

And 9 times out of ten how that person deals with said situation is a result of the things they are taught at home.

I'm sure you think it's perfectly acceptable to buy the love of your child through gifts of trifle while neglecting the actual duty of parenting, but I'm also sure that you'll be the type of person who wonders why their kids hate them and is out fucking the JV football team.

and they'll definatly be the ones to be ripped for buying a dime bag of weed.

What does being ugly have to do with getting shorted on weed? Seriously, your fucking stupid if you think everyone who is successful is "pretty".

Granted, everything else equal than the person *will* get the job, but who the fuck do you know that chooses their doctors or lawyers based upon how much pussy they can pull?

[Satira]

In response to Arkans post directed towards what I said earlier.

You said, in reponse to my previous post, that you pay taxes and that's the way you help other people.

Okay, so does everyone else. You do the AVERAGE of what everyone does for other people.

However, we should STRIVE to be above average in the LOOKS department.

"No, but being above average, at least, is something to strive for. "

Why not strive to be above average in compassion and human welfare? Why not do more than what the government REQUIRES you to do? You really think that your appearance should come before being a good person?

Where the hell did you grow up? Assholeville, USA?

I assume so, from the warped self-absorbed credo you've adopted.


Also, where are the people who had a hard time growing up? Where are the people who actually had problems and weren't concerned with being popular in high school, partying in college, and doing their hair everyday?

I know we have people on this board who are like that.

Some of us actually had LIFE EXPERIENCE, and generally that leads to developed common sense.

From what I've seen this means you don't turn into a conceited jerk who can't possibly associate themselves with unattractive people. You've been through some shit that makes you realize superficial crap doesn't matter.

There's more to a person than their outside appearance, regardless of whether or not you want to take the time to see that. There's a REASON we have the saying "Don't judge a book by its cover."

[Betheny]

Shallow people don't change, they just die unfulfilled.

[Satira]

:clap:

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Lady Satira
:clap: That's kind of an odd sentiment coming from someone who not two posts earlier was going on (and rightfully so) about compassion.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Lady Satira
:clap: That's kind of an odd sentiment coming from someone who not two posts earlier was going on (and rightfully so) about compassion. I don't find it odd at all.

Originally posted by Lady Satira
In response to Arkans post directed towards what I said earlier.

You said, in reponse to my previous post, that you pay taxes and that's the way you help other people.

Okay, so does everyone else. You do the AVERAGE of what everyone does for other people.

However, we should STRIVE to be above average in the LOOKS department.

"No, but being above average, at least, is something to strive for. "

Why not strive to be above average in compassion and human welfare? Why not do more than what the government REQUIRES you to do? You really think that your appearance should come before being a good person?

Where the hell did you grow up? Assholeville, USA?

I assume so, from the warped self-absorbed credo you've adopted.


Also, where are the people who had a hard time growing up? Where are the people who actually had problems and weren't concerned with being popular in high school, partying in college, and doing their hair everyday?

I know we have people on this board who are like that.

Some of us actually had LIFE EXPERIENCE, and generally that leads to developed common sense.

From what I've seen this means you don't turn into a conceited jerk who can't possibly associate themselves with unattractive people. You've been through some shit that makes you realize superficial crap doesn't matter.

There's more to a person than their outside appearance, regardless of whether or not you want to take the time to see that. There's a REASON we have the saying "Don't judge a book by its cover."

This is why I pay my taxes and contribute in the "average" sense.. Because it is MY MONEY. My tax dollars already fund charities, why pay twice? Why not buy something that I can enjoy? Sorry, I pay enough in taxes and I'm not going to have people like you telling me to pay more.

Wait, wait, who're you to assume I have no experience? I hate to break it to you, but I have a bit under my belt and from what I see around me, it definatly happens. Denying it is really just living in your own little hippy world where personality is king, guess what? It isn't.

Who's to said that I wouldn't socialize with unattractive people? I will. Will I gave them the same respect or acknowledgement than good looking people? Probably not, sorry if the truth in harsh, but there are plenty of people that do the same thing.

I'm sure there are plenty of people that are really nice, generous, and lovie dovie, guess what? Plenty of good looking people that are that way as well.

- Arkans

PS: My appearance will come before being a "good person" if I feel like it. It's my money and I earned it. I pay my taxes and if I see a cause I believe in, I might go for it. Until then, I'm going to be looking for a nice pair of pants.

- Arkans

[Nakiro]

There is nothing wrong with plastic surgery.

What is wrong is societies views on plastic surgery and the pressures that influence people to believe plastic surgery is necessary.

No one is saying it is necessary. What I am saying is that getting it would do nothing but help.

- Arkans

I'd hate to be in an office where physical attractiveness = productivity.

[Satira]

First of all that isn't an odd sentiment coming from me. Shallow people will die unfulfilled, and there's no way I'm going to change them. See Arkans last post if you don't believe me. I just thought it was a poignant thing to say on Maimara's part.

Arkans, the last few paragraphs were not directed toward you. I tried to include a few extra spaces to separate it, but apparently that didn't work.

I was simply trying to get other people to speak up. Generally, under the circumstances I mentioned, those people lean towards the whole "I care about others" thing that you don't go for. That's why I even brought it up at all. I am aware there are beautiful, attractive people who are great and really nice. My point was not to say there weren't.

I really don't care what you do. I'm not trying to change you. I certainly wasn't commenting on your life experience because I don't know you. I just think it's stupid to strive to be above average in an aspect of your life that isn't going to matter in the long run, and then be okay in another aspect that makes a bigger difference. I'm not TELLING you to do anything. I was just expressing that I think you're superficial and I think that's an undesirable quality in a person.

I never said personality was "king" either. I reject the notion that appearance is as important as you say, but not that it doesn't matter at all. That isn't logical to me. You'll find there are people out there that think personality is king, just like you'll find people like you who think looks are the end all be all.

Let's go ask a group of 70 year olds what mattered most to them in retrospect, what they did that made them feel like a good person and what they did for others, or how attractive they were and what they bought for themselves.

I am not living in some hippy dippy world. I do get that people like you exist. You've seemed to miss that people like me, who don't give a fuck if you have a pretty face or are wearing Tommy Hilfiger, exist as well. As a matter of fact, if you were applying to my company and expressed the opinions you have on this board, I wouldn't hire you.

That's MY truth. Just because your truth differs from mine doesn't make you RIGHT. It doesn't make me right either. In your world, you are right, because that's how you take things. I was only saying that I don't consider you to be a quality person. There are other people, obviously, who feel that way as well from the posts I've seen. At least you have Psykos on your side.

I find it interesting that you think people who value personality over appearance ARE living in some kind of psychotic hippy dippy world. I don't think you're living in some kind of crazy parallel universe because you believe appearance is extremely important and that paying taxes is enough. I just think you're an idiot.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
And fake boobs... who cares about boobs as long as she has a big pooper. Boobs are a distant cry to a great legs and a nice ass.

Don't be hatin!

I see your point, but I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree, unless someone else has something to add on to.

All I know is that I hope you pay a lot of extra cash (about the same amount I spend on clothes! [proporitionally to income, of course]) for your charity cause. We're taxed high enough and I do my part.

- Arkans

[Jazuela]

Heh - I kinda sorta agree with Arkan's perspective. We are forced to donate money to help people, whether we like it or not, through our taxes. We don't even get to decide WHO is being helped by them. We support drug addicts, sex offenders, hardened seasoned criminal murderers. We pay for their gym equipment, college education, frivolous lawsuits that they submit from their jail cells that are equipped with computers and 27-inch screen TVs...

We pay for welfare mothers who are too lazy to get a job and whelp their spawn year after year for that extra bonus to their welfare checks...

We pay for the methodone that heroin addicts get for free while our own children suffer from diseases that the money COULD be used to help cure...

And you want me to give MORE? Fuggedaboudit. Lemme rephrase that: No fucking way in hell am I giving another dime to help "humanity."

However - I gladly donate used clothes that I don't wear or want anymore to the battered women's shelters, bring boxes of newspapers to line the cages of animal adoption centers that have a "no-kill" policy, put in my hours at the local animal adoption center walking the dogs and playing with the cats to help keep them socialized and adoptable.

The coinage - is mine. If a bum on the street begs me for it, he'll get a hardened New York stare as I walk past. On the other hand - in the summertime I will occasionally bring a box of empty soda cans downtown and leave them with one of the homeless guys. They're worth 5 cents each - and he can damned well get off his ass and bring them to the redemption center and cash them in himself.

No one gets a handout of money from me, more than the government forces me to give already.

sorry, but I'm not raising my daughter to do DP's for dime bags.

[Back]

Originally posted by Jazuela
However - I gladly donate used clothes that I don't wear or want anymore to the battered women's shelters, bring boxes of newspapers to line the cages of animal adoption centers that have a "no-kill" policy, put in my hours at the local animal adoption center walking the dogs and playing with the cats to help keep them socialized and adoptable.

Way off topic, but to add in here... you bet your ass I’m feeling taxed every which way till my head spins. This year I’m planning to take all my blank reciepts from when I drop off clothes at the Veteran’s and filling those suckers out. I never have in the past, but this year, man oh man.

Truth is I’ve easily dropped $500 worth of clothes there if not more. Consider average $30 for a dress shirt, sometimes more, $40-$50 for pants. Yeah, if the upper 2% can claim charitable donations, I sure the hell am this year. I’m an ass for having not in the past.

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Backlash
Truth is I’ve easily dropped $500 worth of clothes there if not more. Consider average $30 for a dress shirt, sometimes more, $40-$50 for pants. Yeah, if the upper 2% can claim charitable donations, I sure the hell am this year. I’m an ass for having not in the past.

Anyone who itemizes can claim their charitable deductions (up to half their taxable income). I sure as hell do, and I'm nowhere near the top 2%.

Side note - You can't take a deduction for what you PAID, but rather their current fair market value. Well, technically I guess you can, you just might get in trouble :D

Jorddyn

[Jazuela]

You don't -necessarily- need to supply receipts either. It depends on your gross income and the amount you claim you donated in cash value (items and money combined).

Generally we don't keep receipts or even ask for them. We just claim $375 and leave it at that. I figure we donate far more than that, but in our tax bracket (20%) they won't even question $375. Time is money - and the time spent collecting receipts, asking for them, dealing with them, storing them for up to 7 years, etc. etc. etc...just not worth the effort to *possibly* get another 5 bucks taken off what we owe at the end of the year (or 5 bucks extra on our refund).

[DeV]

Originally posted by Jazuela
Heh - I kinda sorta agree with Arkan's perspective. We are forced to donate money to help people, whether we like it or not, through our taxes. We don't even get to decide WHO is being helped by them. We support drug addicts, sex offenders, hardened seasoned criminal murderers. We pay for their gym equipment, college education, frivolous lawsuits that they submit from their jail cells that are equipped with computers and 27-inch screen TVs...

We pay for welfare mothers who are too lazy to get a job and whelp their spawn year after year for that extra bonus to their welfare checks...

We pay for the methodone that heroin addicts get for free while our own children suffer from diseases that the money COULD be used to help cure...

And you want me to give MORE? Fuggedaboudit. Lemme rephrase that: No fucking way in hell am I giving another dime to help "humanity."

However - I gladly donate used clothes that I don't wear or want anymore to the battered women's shelters, bring boxes of newspapers to line the cages of animal adoption centers that have a "no-kill" policy, put in my hours at the local animal adoption center walking the dogs and playing with the cats to help keep them socialized and adoptable.

The coinage - is mine. If a bum on the street begs me for it, he'll get a hardened New York stare as I walk past. On the other hand - in the summertime I will occasionally bring a box of empty soda cans downtown and leave them with one of the homeless guys. They're worth 5 cents each - and he can damned well get off his ass and bring them to the redemption center and cash them in himself.

No one gets a handout of money from me, more than the government forces me to give already. I'm just wondering what the fuck this has to do with the current topic.

Please read prior posts.

- Arkans

[DeV]

Not helpful. Statement stands.

You lose then.

- Arkans

[DeV]

Originally posted by Arkans
You lose then.

- Arkans :yawn:

[Jazuela]

It's called "responding to a derailment" in my country. And as far as I know, derailing threads isn't against the rules here in PC land, and is done with enough frequency that most would consider it acceptable behavior.

Why did you not ask everyone else who derailed before I responded, by the way? I'm curious as to why you targeted me specifically, rather than the two pages of derailment prior to my post.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Jazuela
It's called "responding to a derailment" in my country. And as far as I know, derailing threads isn't against the rules here in PC land, and is done with enough frequency that most would consider it acceptable behavior.

Why did you not ask everyone else who derailed before I responded, by the way? I'm curious as to why you targeted me specifically, rather than the two pages of derailment prior to my post. Everyone else? Your first wall of text was forgivable

I targeted you because I too, "was responding to a derailment". That's what it's called in my country also. I just didn't include a wall of text to accompany my sentiments.

You answered the question. It's done.

[Jazuela]

Perhaps in your country, "wall of text" refers to something completely different than it does for the rest of the known world.

See, a wall of text is the jargon referring to a long post on a public forum that lacks paragraph seperation. As you can see, my posts all contain appropriate paragraph seperations, and so by definition, my posts are not walls of text.

Isn't this derailing fun?

[DeV]

Originally posted by Jazuela
Perhaps in your country, "wall of text" refers to something completely different than it does for the rest of the known world.

See, a wall of text is the jargon referring to a long post on a public forum that lacks paragraph seperation. As you can see, my posts all contain appropriate paragraph seperations, and so by definition, my posts are not walls of text.

Isn't this derailing fun? Yes it is. And so is the fact that you go wildly off topic, often, paragraph separation or not.

[Allycat]

Good looks and Nice clothes will only get you so far in life. I grew up in the 80's when designer jeans were a fad. Did I wear these? Nope. Was I treated any differently? Nope. Did it affect my self esteem, because I didn't have them? Nope. You know why? Because my parents instilled in me the belief that it doesn't matter what I wear, that it's the person inside that matters. I have in return given the same values to my child. Do I buy her designer jeans, No. Do I buy her brand name sneakers? Yes. Not because of the brand name, but because they are "generally" made better and hold up longer and I can afford them, so why not get her something sturdy if I can fork out the cash? BUT... not too long ago, she mentioned wanting lipo-suction, because she has fat on her sides? I about fell over when she said this to me, because a) she's 13 b) a size 2. I had a long talk with her about reality and how she doesn't need to look like Brittney Spears to be "cool". I told her when she gets older if she wants to have these things done, as an adult, go for it, but at 13, 15 or even 18 it's not going to make you any better of a person, just because you have a little bit of fat on your hips.
As to the comments that have been made about interviewing, breast implants, etc. I know from personal experience of interviewing people. It doesn't matter if you're gorgeous or have the name brands on. If you look presentable (clean clothes, good hygene, etc) and have the experience or the schooling that is needed, then you're in the running, just like everyone else.

[Edited on 9-15-2004 by Allycat]

[Jazuela]

WALL OF TEXT! WALL OF TEXT! KILL TEH N00B

*This derailment was brought to you by :wtf: and the color chartreuse.

[CrystalTears]

Yeah but at least they're on topic. :P

[Allycat]

<WALL OF TEXT! WALL OF TEXT! KILL TEH N00B >

-Bring it- :P

[DeV]

Originally posted by Jazuela
WALL OF TEXT! WALL OF TEXT! KILL TEH N00B

*This derailment was brought to you by :wtf: and the color chartreuse. What CT said. I don't mind a wall of text as long as it's ON TOPIC!

Allycat's points are on queue. Even regarding the interview process. If obtaining a job was explicitly or even a tiny bit based on how attractive a person is, at least we'd have a reason why the unemployment rate is so high.

[Jazuela]

Actually - THIS is the topic, which you have ALL derailed from to one extent or another. I did respond directly to this by the way - which you'd know if you actually read my lengthy posts.


Originally posted by Atlanteax
As any loyal viewers would know... every Monday, he does clips from Newspapers... (that viewers send in).

Earlier tonight, he showed an Advertisement that said:
"Back to School Special : Breast Argumentation"
... and the picture had a model holding some covers close to her, and the caption on the chalkboard behind her said something like "... now I'm getting all As"

.

As an moral individual, I found it appalling, but then realized in today's society, I probably shouldn't be surprised. Sharing what I saw with a few friends, one in California commented to me that parents there are giving their daughters breast argumentation as graduation presents.

Of the two, I think the later is more appalling... while both remain sad affairs.

Now - the topic is parents giving their daughters breast augmentations as graduation presents, AND a picture of some chick in front of a chalkboard implying that having big boobs got her better grades.

Nowhere does it mention getting a job, getting self-esteem, getting dates, this, that, or the other thing (no matter how related to the topic all of this stuff happens to be).

All y'all stick with the topic, or stop bitching when other people go off it.

[Parkbandit]

Complaining about someone going off topic is as bad as someone going off topic.

Allow me to bring this back on topic.

Girls who have no natural chest should be forced to get fake boobies so that men can enjoy them.

Discuss. :smug:

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Girls who have no natural chest should be forced to get fake boobies so that men can enjoy them.

Discuss. :smug:

Well said?

[DeV]

PB is right, however it had to be said, buddy.

Some of us are interested in focussed, on-topic, rational, civil and meaningful discourse which may contribute toward disclosure of the the public interest. Getting that kind of response going requires discipline from participants, such as yourself Jazuela and from others. Yes, we all have "the right to speak or minds" and go slightly off topic when given the necessity, regrettably, in some instances, we must wonder if there is any mind involved at all.

Please explain to me how post #239131 was revelant because obviously I missed something. Or actually, don't. I'd have better luck communicating with a box of rocks.

I dated a girl who wore an A cup once, and to this day she is the most conceited girl I've known. It mostly boils down to being secure with yourself and having confidence to make up for what you lack. However, if the girl was flat chested and wanted to get a boob job, who could blame her. As long as she isn't relying on it to be successful in life.

[Jazuela]

I disagree with Parkbandit about the boobie thing. I do think flat-chested women look kinda weird though, and they should WANT to wear a push-up bra or padded bra or *something* so they look a little more normal!

BOOBIES 4 PRESIDENT

[Jazuela]

Please explain to me how post #239131 was revelant because obviously I missed something. Or actually, don't. I'd have better luck communicating with a box of rocks.

Apparently so. It requires some small amount of intelligence to communicate with anything more sentient than a box of rocks.

BOOBIES 4 PRESIDENT!

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Lady Satira
Shallow people will die unfulfilled, and there's no way I'm going to change them.
Why not strive to be above average in compassion and human welfare?Compassion: "Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it." Do you see where I'm coming from now?
Originally posted by Jazuela
And you want me to give MORE?Maybe it's just me, but I don't see the government taking money from you as you "giving". Just because you no longer have something doesn't mean you gave it away.

I also find it incredibly disheartening that you'll gladly volunteer to help animals, but can't be bothered to help a person.

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Lady Satira
First of all that isn't an odd sentiment coming from me. Shallow people will die unfulfilled, and there's no way I'm going to change them. See Arkans last post if you don't believe me. I just thought it was a poignant thing to say on Maimara's part.

See? I'm not as stupid or insane as everyone thinks I am...

[Ravenstorm]

The thief, they say, will believe everyone is out to steal from him.

The liar will believe he is always being lied to.

The shallow and superficial...

Raven

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Isn't judging superficial people kind of hypocritical?

Who cares? I like tits, fake and real. I think everyone should try to present themselves in the best light. Be it losing weight, gaining weight, getting bigger tits, smaller tits, a suntan, whitened teeth or contacts. Everyone is superficial to a degree. I certainly try to make myself look nice for important meetings or when I go on a date.

If someone thinks getting a boobjob will make them happy... who am I to criticize them?

I've been with a woman who got a boob job, and I'll say they were nice, and she liked them. I actually discouraged her from getting them but she felt like at that point in her life it was something she wanted, so she did it. Good for her.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
Isn't judging superficial people kind of hypocritical?
If you've read what's been discussed it goes well beyond just being superficial.

However, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Originally posted by Allycat
Good looks and Nice clothes will only get you so far in life. I grew up in the 80's when designer jeans were a fad. Did I wear these? Nope. Was I treated any differently? Nope. Did it affect my self esteem, because I didn't have them? Nope. You know why? Because my parents instilled in me the belief that it doesn't matter what I wear, that it's the person inside that matters. I have in return given the same values to my child. Do I buy her designer jeans, No. Do I buy her brand name sneakers? Yes. Not because of the brand name, but because they are "generally" made better and hold up longer and I can afford them, so why not get her something sturdy if I can fork out the cash? BUT... not too long ago, she mentioned wanting lipo-suction, because she has fat on her sides? I about fell over when she said this to me, because a) she's 13 b) a size 2. I had a long talk with her about reality and how she doesn't need to look like Brittney Spears to be "cool". I told her when she gets older if she wants to have these things done, as an adult, go for it, but at 13, 15 or even 18 it's not going to make you any better of a person, just because you have a little bit of fat on your hips.
As to the comments that have been made about interviewing, breast implants, etc. I know from personal experience of interviewing people. It doesn't matter if you're gorgeous or have the name brands on. If you look presentable (clean clothes, good hygene, etc) and have the experience or the schooling that is needed, then you're in the running, just like everyone else.

[Edited on 9-15-2004 by Allycat]

Wait, wait. You said you never wore the designer jeans, so how would you know if people treated you different? Maybe a few called you a grub behind your back? Maybe the hottest guy in the world decided not to ask you out. Far fetched examples, but you just don't know for sure.

I'd let her hit around 18-20 before considering such surgery. If she feels she really needs it, why not give it to her? I don't see the problem. Just wait until she finishes growing.

And, you know, I know from being told by various interviewers that how you dress does determine if you get hired. Hell, physical appearance plays a role too. It's nice to think that it doesn't, but it's been tested and even the results show that physical appearance and attire play a role. Try it. Go out to a bar or a club and for a week wear mediocre clothes and then do the same with really great clothes, you'll notice a difference.

- Arkans

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Arkans
Go out to a bar or a club and for a week wear mediocre clothes and then do the same with really great clothes, you'll notice a difference.


This would relate to getting a boob job if every time you wanted to change your pants, you had to go through major surgery.

Jorddyn

[Jazuela]

Latrinstorm - so the part where I said I give clothing to battered women's shelters, and boxes of refundable cans to homeless people doesn't count? Or - do you not considered battered women and homeless people "people?"

I don't give MONEY to other people who need it, because my MONEY is already deducted from my income tax to give to people who might or might not need it, whether I want it to be deducted or not. The option to give to whoever I want it to go to, is thus taken from me. Let the needy go to the government for their handout. I am already paying for it.

The government, however, does not fun no-kill animal shelters. The government does not fund the battered women's shelters. The government also does not fund the homeless shelters. And so - that is where I donate things that they state they need most. Clothing, help to socialize the animals, and "work for food" for the homeless. With work, to me, meaning something as inconsequential as bringing empties to the store for the 5 cents refund for each one. Even the homeless deserve a little dignity whereever they can find it - no handouts for them either. They can, and should, earn the coin. And every single man and woman I've given these cans to have thanked me for NOT just giving out money, but instead for giving them a reason to get off their stoop and go somewhere other than the local food bank. I gave a sack of apples and a few cans of food and a can opener to one guy once. Made me cry to see his reaction. It was as though someone had dropped the winning lotto ticket in his pocket.

But no, no money to the needy. I give my own way, to those I feel like giving to. The government does a fine job taking from me to give to the rest.

Fine, go out before you get a boob job, then go get one, and you'll see a difference.

- Arkans

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Arkans
Fine, go out before you get a boob job, then go get one, and you'll see a difference.

- Arkans

I watched my mom go through the pain of reconstructive surgery, and then replacement surgery twice, I will never voluntarily have something permanently placed in my body that doesn't belong there.

Besides, they're naturally large enugh. I think I'll pass on becoming a hunchback for the sake of larger boobs.

Jorddyn, thinks it is funny that those concerned with big boobs are usually the biggest boobs

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by DarkelfVold

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
Isn't judging superficial people kind of hypocritical?
If you've read what's been discussed it goes well beyond just being superficial.

However, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Did you read the rest of my post? It goes well beyond the one sentence you took out of context.

[DeV]

SHM, I read your post. You asked a question and I quoted it and supplied an answer. I didn't disagree with your points so there really was no need to quote anything else.

- Arkans [/quote]

I watched my mom go through the pain of reconstructive surgery, and then replacement surgery twice, I will never voluntarily have something permanently placed in my body that doesn't belong there.

Besides, they're naturally large enugh. I think I'll pass on becoming a hunchback for the sake of larger boobs.

Jorddyn, thinks it is funny that those concerned with big boobs are usually the biggest boobs [/quote]

Reconstructive surgery is a bit different if you ask me. No matter how good the surgeon, you'll never really be the same as far as your physical appearance.

Remember, sometimes boobs can be too big. It's all about proportionality and how globier (is that even a word?) they are.

- Arkans

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Jorddyn
I watched my mom go through the pain of reconstructive surgery, and then replacement surgery twice, I will never voluntarily have something permanently placed in my body that doesn't belong there.



Originally posted by Arkans
Reconstructive surgery is a bit different if you ask me. No matter how good the surgeon, you'll never really be the same as far as your physical appearance.

Remember, sometimes boobs can be too big. It's all about proportionality and how globier (is that even a word?) they are.


I didn't refer to the difference in appearance because of reconstruction, I referred to the discomfort, pain, and multiple surgeries that she went through. I can't imagine voluntarily going through that.

Jorddyn

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by DarkelfVold
SHM, I read your post. You asked a question and I quoted it and supplied an answer. I didn't disagree with your points so there really was no need to quote anything else.

hmmm, maybe I need to chill :) Sorry, running on little sleep the past week or so, and I imagine I'm more than a little grumpy.

For cosmetic surgery, they make the pain as minor as possible. It is a factor though for some people, just not that big of one for me.

- Arkans

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
The thief, they say, will believe everyone is out to steal from him.

The liar will believe he is always being lied to.

The shallow and superficial...

Raven

JUST BECAUSE FALGRIN CLOSES HIS VEST AND BACKPACK AND HARNESS AND DEPOSITS HIS COINS IN A BANK DOES NOT MAKE HIM PARANOID PEOPLE ARE STEALING FROM HIM!

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
I've been with a woman who got a boob job, and I'll say they were nice, and she liked them. I actually discouraged her from getting them but she felt like at that point in her life it was something she wanted, so she did it. Good for her.

Oh good for her my ass.. it was GOOD FOR YOU MAN! Tell me you didn't like them better!

Big boobies make me happy. :yes:

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Me too, but I didn't encourage her to get em, she had large B's already, and they were nice to begin with.

Big C's after... yum.

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Arkans
For cosmetic surgery, they make the pain as minor as possible. It is a factor though for some people, just not that big of one for me.

You're getting your boobs done?!? :lol:

Jorddyn, should be working

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Jazuela
Latrinstorm - so the part where I said I give clothing to battered women's shelters, and boxes of refundable cans to homeless people doesn't count? Or - do you not considered battered women and homeless people "people?"I consider every human being a person, including human beings who have made mistakes. You've made it quite clear it annoys you that there are elements of humanity you are forced to help, while you volunteer to help animals, hence my previous statement. I didn't say help ANY persons, I said help A person. I can see where another interpretation could crop up, though.

p.s: My handle only has one "t" in it.

Uh, I clearly said cosmetic surgery..

- Arkans

I think Arkans should post a picture so we can determine how far he'll get in life.

I already did, twice actually. I ain't Brad Pitt, but I'm not a beast.

- Arkans

[CrystalTears]

Make a photo gallery album! I really hate sifting through that HUGE picture thread.

Sure thing, I'll have a few pictures up tonight.

- Arkans

Oh, just to be a jackass...


LOLZ MY PICTURE IS MY AVATAR

- Arkans

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by ME!
You're getting your boobs done?!?



Originally posted by Arkans
Uh, I clearly said cosmetic surgery..


Bad joke -> :rock: <- Arkans

Jorddyn

Edited because I can't quote. Still.

[Edited on 9-16-2004 by Jorddyn]

[Allycat]

Wait, wait. You said you never wore the designer jeans, so how would you know if people treated you different? Maybe a few called you a grub behind your back? Maybe the hottest guy in the world decided not to ask you out. Far fetched examples, but you just don't know for sure.

I'd let her hit around 18-20 before considering such surgery. If she feels she really needs it, why not give it to her? I don't see the problem. Just wait until she finishes growing.

And, you know, I know from being told by various interviewers that how you dress does determine if you get hired. Hell, physical appearance plays a role too. It's nice to think that it doesn't, but it's been tested and even the results show that physical appearance and attire play a role. Try it. Go out to a bar or a club and for a week wear mediocre clothes and then do the same with really great clothes, you'll notice a difference.

- Arkans
_________________________________


Actually, my point was, if someone DID make fun of me, behind my back, I wouldn't have given a flying fuck or not. I did date the most popular guy in high school and I just happened to be one of the most popular girls in high school, but not because I wore designer jeans or had the "cool" stuff. It was because I was the captain of the girls varsity basketball team and because I was and always have been a very nice person.

No, even if my daughter thought she had a gut, small boobs or whatever when she is 18-40, I would tell her it would be her choice to get plastic surgery, I would not pay for her to have it done, because I don't believe it makes you a better person, inside or out to do so.

Lastly, I never said nice clothes did or didn't get you the job. I said experience and schooling counts for more. If someone walks in, in designer clothes and no experience/schooling, I would hire the person that I know could do the job, by the experience over some guy/gal that thought they could land the job with flashy smile and a polo shirt. :D

-Ally

[Jazuela]

That's a given, Allycat. It also has nothing to do with the point.

The point is - where two individuals have equal schooling/education/background/experience, where both individuals have equally charming and "sellable" personality -

The one with the better physical presentation will get the job.

First impressions COUNT. They teach you that in grade school. They reinforce it in High School, and they prove it in real life. With all else being equal, the one with the bad breath will NOT get the job. The one with the run in her pantyhose will NOT get the job. The one with the hole where her eyebrow ring was this morning - will NOT get the job.

With all ELSE being equal between two candidates for employment (other than in a fast food joint or the local Hollywood Video), the one who presents him or herself best, physically, will be the one who wins the job. Hands down, every single time.

And no - having big boobs has absolutely nothing to do with it (unless the boss is a lecher, but then all things wouldn't be equal would they, because he wouldn't be trying to hire someone with brains in the first place)

[Souzy]

Originally posted by RangerD1
There's no way I'd get my daughter fake tits for graduation or for any occasion for that matter. Assuming shes been good I might let her undon her veil after the commencement.

Yeah...we so won't allow that for our daughter. :smilegrin:

Really though...boob job for a graduation present? I mean...what ever happened to rich parents getting their kids a car or something? Cosmetic surgery?! My God people! Just donate your money to me plz. I'll put it to better use, ha!

edited to put "I'll" ermmm...yeah.

[Edited on 9-16-2004 by Lalana]

Okay, setting up an online album is a bit too much work (read: I don't know how) for me, so I'll post pictures of me and my friend here. The excessivly pierced one is my friend Dan, the one with no piercings is me.

- Arkans

[Edited on 9-16-2004 by Arkans]

[DeV]

Originally posted by Jazuela
The point is - where two individuals have equal schooling/education/background/experience, where both individuals have equally charming and "sellable" personality -

The one with the better physical presentation will get the job.

First impressions COUNT.
Her point was on queue. We are talking about natural beauty or natural physical attractiveness as opposed to not having the best looks in the world. Something we cannot help, unless cosmetic surgery becomes a personal option. All of your points were true, however they are all "givens". Everyone knows first impressions make a huge difference especially on a job interview and in most facets of life.

[Myshel]

At some point in a teenagers life they hate their nose, their bodies, their name, their color of eyes and sometimes all at once.
Would I indulge a surgery option because they think their life is over if I don't.. NO. When they make their own money to afford it by that time hopefully will have enough sense to value what they do have. If at that time they still want to change whatever, I would support them.

Well, just to add to my point. Apparantly they had an episode on 60 Minutes not to long ago that tested the job interview theory. It stated that I was correct. The better looking canidate was picked.

Also, they did a study with teachers. Two teachers with the same teaching style, one ugly, one good looking was tested on 1st graders. Guess who they picked? That's right, the good looking one.

Apparantly, this is something we are born with.

- Arkans

That doesn't change your responsibility to raise a well adjusted capable child, who is fully equipped to make the most of whatever the world has to offer. There's only so much tits and a nice ass can do if you're completely retarded.

Originally posted by RangerD1
That doesn't change your responsibility to raise a well adjusted capable child, who is fully equipped to make the most of whatever the world has to offer. There's only so much tits and a nice ass can do if you're completely retarded.

I completely agree. Good parenting is always a must. It's good to drive home excellent values, but I believe that a good appearance should also be one of those values. So, if my child would ever come up to me and ask for some sort of cosmetic surgery for the 18th birthday, I'd be very receptive to the idea and listen.

Take it a step further. I have a friend that owns a bit of property. A triple family house in a pretty decent suburb of Boston. I was speaking to him about this and even he said that he wouldn't rent to people that just didn't have a good appearance on them. Granted, not everyone living in that house is a fashion model, but they are by no means ugly. Shallow? Perhaps, but it's the world we live in and we might as well try and play by the rules.

- Arkans

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Arkans
Perhaps, but it's the world we live in and we might as well try and play by the rules.Betray the age, man.

???

- Arkans

[Jazuela]

There are also (sometimes subtle) differences between wanting to look normal, and wanting to look pretty.

Case in point: My cousin's nose was out of proportion for her face. Not merely big - it was big, and had a really drastic bend to it on the ridge. Came out from the top and bent straight down, like a hunchback, except it was a nose. She's a natural beauty, other than that nose. So when she was hm - maybe 16? Her mom allowed her to get a nose job.

It didn't change her personality all that much. She was (and is now, over 10 years later) the same enjoyable person she was before the surgery, who had a relatively decent outlook on life. But it changed dramatically the way she felt about HERSELF, and that made her seem even -more- enjoyable to others.

A friend when I grew up had ears that stuck out something horrible. People used to call her Dumbo and make fun of her. As an adult, we can handle teasing like that. But when you're in 2nd grade, it's torture.

She had her ears pinned back. She also had an odd-looking nose - but she left it be, because it didn't bother her in the least. She had a gorgeous face, and the nose was just a bit of character added to it. The ears though - they were just - really REALLY obviously wrong for the size and shape of her head, ya know? Almost like a deformity, but they were just - ears that stuck out. After the surgery, people stopped teasing her, and she was able to get past that and deal with the rest of childhood without trauma.

I was born with accute lordosis - swayback, in laymen's terms. Surgery was out of the question, but I had to go through gruelling exercies unless I was willing to be stuck wearing a brace for a minimum of 5 years to correct it. I would have been able to walk and move just fine without - it just looked really bad and made me walk on my toes. When you're in K-6th grade, kids can be extremely cruel to anyone who looks different.

Did mom say "buck up and take the teasing?" Hell no. She made me go through the exercises. I still have the swayback but I no longer walk on my toes, and can make myself sit and stand and move with a normal erect spine when I'm not being lazy about it. People compliment me and tell me when I'm sitting, I have the most perfect posture they've ever seen. It's kinda weird to hear it - I mean - when was the last time you commented to someone about their posture, ya know? But it makes me feel WONDERFUL - especially compared to the torture of the kids' cruelty when I was growing up.

Sometimes you need to "fix" a "problem" with your body. A girl who is -completely- flat-chested might be justified in wanting *something* up there. A woman with extremely large breasts might need a reduction, if for nothing else than relieving stress on the shoulders and back when wearing a bra. Someone who was obese and lost weight quickly might need that surgery to remove the excess skin that now hangs from her abdomen.

But this isn't to "make you pretty," or enhance beauty. It's more a matter of changing something that is not considered "average" and making it "average" so that you can fit better into society. Someone who wears a B cup - is NORMAL. Not average, since C is considered the average cup size (which is why they always overstock C's and always run out of them first in the department stores)...

So someone with a B cup will never convince me that being a C cup will make them prettier, or sexier, or more attractive. I'm a DD in fact - and I'll probably feel like getting a reduction in the next few years is a good idea. But for now, other than not being able to find button-down shirts in my size, I'm fine with it. When they start to hurt or the bra straps start digging into my shoulders, that's when I'll seriously consider surgery. Because then - it's no longer "normal." I don't give a shit if it makes me prettier or not. I'm more concerned with how I feel physically.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Arkans
???http://www.beliefnet.com/story/146/story_14683.html

Betray the age. It's my new motto. And it's very related to the topic at hand.

I agree its related to a point, but don't you think that betraying our age would take a bigger leap that just worrying about our own vanity?

- Arkans

[Latrinsorm]

Yes.

However, the longest journey begins with a single step.

If that was the case (if you mean it being the first small step) then this would have happened at the very dawn of civilization. Worrying about how we look is not a new phenominon. Heck, the strongest, largest, warlord in a barbarian tribe in Germania wore the best skins, after all. So, wouldn't that mean that no age was ever betrayed?

- Arkans

[Jolena]

Yeah you could learn to live with it and play by the rules. OR you can make your own rules, live your own way, and teach your kids that whether or not your beautiful is not something to worry about, but moreso whether or not you have good hygeine, clean and decent clothing, a roof over your head, good morals, goals and are doing well in school. :moon:

[Chadj]

:offtopic:

[Stunseed]

:troll:

[TheEnforcer]

Is it me or does Arkans look like he just got out of a concentration camp? :nutty:

RangerD1 PWNS you in the looks department dude.

Tits fucking rule. :up:

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Arkans
If that was the case (if you mean it being the first small step) then this would have happened at the very dawn of civilization. ... So, wouldn't that mean that no age was ever betrayed?I meant in your personal journey, it could be the first step. And I know you're not suggesting that nobody did it before, so nobody should do it now.

[Betheny]

Arkans is obviously from another planet.

I fear to see what would happen if his child was born with a birth defect, or if his significant other was in an accident and disfigured.

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Maimara
I fear to see what would happen if his child was born with a birth defect, or if his significant other was in an accident and disfigured.

I used to wish fat, ugly children on all of the extremely superficial people that I met. The only problem with this is that the children will probably kill themselves by the age of 14, and then the parent will mourn by having a face lift, a divorce and new, younger spouse.

Provided the child did not kill himself, can you imagine how screwed in the head he'd be from years of "Mommy and Daddy were really hoping for a much prettier accessory than you"?

Jorddyn