When to fixstat

[irfuji]

So my dark elf wizard is 63 currently. Rolled him up way back when you rolled for stats and even before the auto roller was invented (I took a lot of breaks okay...).

Anyway, his stats are absolutely fuxored as you can see below.

Strength (STR): 77 (13) ... 77 (13)
Constitution (CON): 83 (11) ... 80 (10)
Dexterity (DEX): 100 (35) ... 100 (35)
Agility (AGL): 78 (19) ... 78 (19)
Discipline (DIS): 86 (8) ... 86 (8)
Aura (AUR): 100 (35) ... 105 (37)
Logic (LOG): 100 (25) ... 105 (27)
Intuition (INT): 78 (19) ... 78 (19)
Wisdom (WIS): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Influence (INF): 61 (0) ... 61 (0)

He's a pure spell caster enchanter and I don't plan on changing that anytime soon. He can hunt just fine and will continue to be my main for as long as I can see.

So, would it be better to fixstat now or wait until later? I only want to do it once but I am not wise enough in the way of GS4 mechanics to know how badly my stats are hurting other things (i.e. xp absorbing).

Thoughts?

[Tgo01]

Don't suppose you just recently brought him back to life and the last time you played him was in GS3?

If not I wouldn't bother fixstating until you reach level 100.

[irfuji]

pretty sure the last time I played was right at the GS3 to GS4 change (was that when they introduced lores?).

Other than that I brought him back close to a year ago now.

[Tgo01]

pretty sure the last time I played was right at the GS3 to GS4 change (was that when they introduced lores?).

Other than that I brought him back close to a year ago now.

Oh, never mind, too late now. The first time you play a character that hasn't been played since GS3 days you have five free fixskills within the first 30 days.

But yeah, the general consensus is you might as well wait until you cap before you bother fixstating. Logic is the most important stat as far as experience absorption goes so you got that maxed, DIS is the other stat for experience but that's far less important and I wouldn't even bother fixstating over it.

[irfuji]

That's pretty much what I thought. Appreciate the input.

[masterdtwin]

Thoughts?

The answer to when should I use a fixstat potion is relatively simple (and wait until level 100 isn't always the answer). When the amount of training you sacrifice has a minimal impact on what you choose to do with your wizard, that is when you can fixstat.

My main wizard is 85, and I'm considering doing a fixstat on him now. I would all-in-all lose about 3 spell trainings; EXP absorption wouldn't change for me. To be honest that's going to have exactly 0.0031415926535897 impact on me as a whole. Granted, there's a big difference between 63 and 85.

Now, if you want a better answer, I'd be more than happy to oblige. In order to do so, I would need your INFO START. Giving me your stats at 63 doesn't help me compare it to a fixstat at other levels.

[Buckwheet]

Like above I waited until 10m xp on my empath to do the fixstat due to the amount of skills I was going to have to drop.

[irfuji]

The answer to when should I use a fixstat potion is relatively simple (and wait until level 100 isn't always the answer). When the amount of training you sacrifice has a minimal impact on what you choose to do with your wizard, that is when you can fixstat.

My main wizard is 85, and I'm considering doing a fixstat on him now. I would all-in-all lose about 3 spell trainings; EXP absorption wouldn't change for me. To be honest that's going to have exactly 0.0031415926535897 impact on me as a whole. Granted, there's a big difference between 63 and 85.

Now, if you want a better answer, I'd be more than happy to oblige. In order to do so, I would need your INFO START. Giving me your stats at 63 doesn't help me compare it to a fixstat at other levels.

Cool, so here's the info start for my guy.

Level 0 Stats for Higuchi, Dark Elf Wizard

Strength (STR): 67
Constitution (CON): 71
Dexterity (DEX): 80
Agility (AGI): 55
Discipline (DIS): 70
Aura (AUR): 80
Logic (LOG): 84
Intuition (INT): 45
Wisdom (WIS): 88
Influence (INF): 20

[Whirlin]

Masterdtwin's comment assumes that the only impact of fixstating is the change in TP based on the growth of stats.

You're ALWAYS going to lose TP when fixstating, ok... unless you uberderped on initial stat placement. But, you're definitely losing TP when you set your prime stats at 80/84. The high growth rate of prime stats makes them prime candidates to set extraordinarily low at level 0. So while total stats will be higher after the fixstats, their contribution is typically reduced due to the lower prime skills. Additionally, growth rates tend to be poor for physical stats for pures. Therefore for perfect stats, that further incentivizes higher physical values at level 0, causing a MTP deficit.

The reason people wait to cap is mufti-faceted:
1) The bar isn't going to be raised on the critters you're fighting. You're already hunting Nelemar, OTF, or the Rift. Not only that, but you're comfortable with the mechanics. You aren't going to need to go through that new hunting ground underpowered hunting situation. The transition between hunting grounds is the hardest part of gemstone (still easy). But, fixstating to lose TP, lose skills, lose AS/DS from lower spell research/stats, it's only going to make these transitions harder on yourself.
From Stats alone, you're looking at losing -7 AS from Dex Bonus, +6 AGL bonus (that's the biggest tangible benefit), -1 max spirit, -8 max mana, XP max and absorption reduction from LOG/DIS. Then additional losses from magic skills reduction for runestaff DS calculations, and/or Spell research bonus reductions.
2) ADVGUILD points... If you've been doing bounties from early on, you may have the points to afford your own fixstats. A Fixstats is always going to cost ~20m or 1m BPs, which absolutely have their own objective value. However, there's still an intangible mental benefit from having the transaction never hit your in game or out of game bank accounts, and not having to buy/sell/merchant for it.
3) Another intangible, it's a nice reward to yourself for hitting 100. Lets you start off post-cap right.

It's a lot of silvers to spend on something that's going to produce no short term benefits, and overall likely make your life more difficult.

[masterdtwin]

Cool, so here's the info start for my guy.

Level 0 Stats for Higuchi, Dark Elf Wizard

Strength (STR): 67
Constitution (CON): 71
Dexterity (DEX): 80
Agility (AGI): 55
Discipline (DIS): 70
Aura (AUR): 80
Logic (LOG): 84
Intuition (INT): 45
Wisdom (WIS): 88
Influence (INF): 20

NOTE - this post is a work in progress, give me a few...

Honestly, around level 80 you'd actually start benefitting from doing a fixstat.

Current stats | | | | |
- | 80 | 85 | 90 | 95 | 100
DEX | 100 | 100 | 100 | 100 | 100
AUR | 100 | 100 | 100 | 100 | 100
DIS | 91 | 92 | 93 | 94 | 95
LOG | 100 | 100 | 100 | 100 | 100
EXP max | 991 | 992 | 993 | 994 | 995
EXP abs. | 36 | 37 | 38 | 38 | 39
Optomized stats | | | | |
- | 80 | 85 | 90 | 95 | 100
DEX | 93 | 95 | 97 | 98 | 100
AUR | 93 | 95 | 97 | 98 | 100
DIS | 96 | 97 | 98 | 99 | 100
LOG | 93 | 95 | 97 | 98 | 100
EXP max | 989 | 992 | 995 | 997 | 1000
EXP abs. | 36 | 37 | 38 | 38 | 39

[Tgo01]

Whirlin covered all the good reasons to wait until cap. I also recommend waiting until cap because both stats and TPs keep growing until cap (y'know, unless the stat is already at 100.) So you would be mixing up your stats all around when they are going to keep growing anyways. At cap it makes sense to do this because your stats aren't going to go up anymore anyways and as Whirlin said you are most likely going to lose TPs but at cap it doesn't matter as much because you keep gaining TPs anyways.

[irfuji]

It appears that i'll just wait.

I've only been doing bounties since about level 55 or so. I hit 53 took a break, came back to the GS3/4 transition got a couple more levels then took another long break during which the bounty system came out.

Appreciate all the assistance here. It really does seem pointless to fixstat before cap. I'm not gaining a decent amount of anything and losing quite a bit.

[Whirlin]

It appears that i'll just wait.

I've only been doing bounties since about level 55 or so. I hit 53 took a break, came back to the GS3/4 transition got a couple more levels then took another long break during which the bounty system came out.

Appreciate all the assistance here. It really does seem pointless to fixstat before cap. I'm not gaining a decent amount of anything and losing quite a bit.

Yeah, I came back at around 65 or so, and I managed to earn about 400k BPs before capping. So sorry to say, I don't think you'll be hitting 1m at cap. However, not all is lost, even if you can't fully fund the Fixstats with your BPs when you cap... you can always cash out your BP and sell however many fixskills you have earned to alleviate the burn on your silver account!

[masterdtwin]

Whirlin covered all the good reasons to wait until cap. I also recommend waiting until cap because both stats and TPs keep growing until cap (y'know, unless the stat is already at 100.) So you would be mixing up your stats all around when they are going to keep growing anyways. At cap it makes sense to do this because your stats aren't going to go up anymore anyways and as Whirlin said you are most likely going to lose TPs but at cap it doesn't matter as much because you keep gaining TPs anyways.

The fact that stats keep growing until 100 is certainly a good reason not to change it - but in some cases (i.e. when you already have multiple stats at 100 at relatively low level by comparison) it can actually benefit you to use a fixstat earlier.

Yes, you lose TP's... But at cap you would still have to make those up. Early on in the levels, the amount of TP's lost can be pretty drastic; The closer you get to 100, the smaller the gap becomes.

Current | Base | 100 | Fixed | Base | 100
STR | 67 | 82 | STR | 65 | 80
CON | 71 | 89 | CON | 85 | 100
DEX | 80 | 100 | DEX | 49 | 100
AGL | 55 | 88 | AGL | 73 | 100
DIS | 70 | 95 | DIS | 77 | 100
AUR | 80 | 100 | AUR | 56 | 100
LOG | 84 | 100 | LOG | 62 | 100
INT | 45 | 90 | INT | 62 | 100
WIS | 88 | 100 | WIS | 73 | 100
INF | 20 | 73 | INF | 58 | 90

lvl | PTP | MTP | PTP | MTP | P-dif | M-dif | value
80 | 3810 | 4155 | 3772 | 4064 | 38 | 91 | 3.5 spells
100 | 4801 | 5249 | 4782 | 5176 | 19 | 73 | 2.5 spells

Honestly, at level 80, the loss of 3.5 spells in your training is not exactly detrimental. As I said, that gap closes as you reach level 100, and becomes only 2.5 spells.

Even if you compute that into raw AS loss, you're talking 2AS from spells (assuming they were put into 513), and 4AS from the dex bonus (which decreases to 3AS difference at level 81). As far as CS goes - you're talking 1CS from spells, and 3CS from Aura (2CS@81). To be honest, if a loss of 6AS and 4CS causes you that much of an issue then you have larger issues.

I'm not recommending by any means starting at something like level 60. I just don't think the 'wait till cap' rule that everyone spews out is as important as everyone seems to make it.

[masterdtwin]

Yeah, I came back at around 65 or so, and I managed to earn about 400k BPs before capping. So sorry to say, I don't think you'll be hitting 1m at cap. However, not all is lost, even if you can't fully fund the Fixstats with your BPs when you cap... you can always cash out your BP and sell however many fixskills you have earned to alleviate the burn on your silver account!

This is honestly the only valid argument that I can agree with for waiting until cap to fixstat - If you don't have the BP to buy a potion, you're probably not going to be able to fixstat earlier (unless you pay the $200 for one through the simucoin store).

[Whirlin]

Honestly, at level 80, the loss of 3.5 spells in your training is not exactly detrimental. As I said, that gap closes as you reach level 100, and becomes only 2.5 spells.

Even if you compute that into raw AS loss, you're talking 2AS from spells (assuming they were put into 513), and 4AS from the dex bonus (which decreases to 3AS difference at level 81). As far as CS goes - you're talking 1CS from spells, and 3CS from Aura (2CS@81). To be honest, if a loss of 6AS and 4CS causes you that much of an issue then you have larger issues.

I'm not recommending by any means starting at something like level 60. I just don't think the 'wait till cap' rule that everyone spews out is as important as everyone seems to make it.

You're talking about early realization of pure losses though. Why do that to yourself prematurely when there's still growth to be done?

I understand that the impact may not be much, but what's the benefit that getting by fixstating at 80? -3.5 spells, lower AS, lower CS, less mana, less TP, same XP absorption... all for what? +5 max XP in your mind? slightly higher carrying capacity? :jerkit:

[masterdtwin]

You're talking about early realization of pure losses though. Why do that to yourself prematurely when there's still growth to be done?

I understand that the impact may not be much, but what's the benefit that getting by fixstating at 80? -3.5 spells, lower AS, lower CS, less mana, less TP, same XP absorption... all for what? +5 max XP in your mind? slightly higher carrying capacity? :jerkit:

Based on that logic, what's the benefit of fixstating at all? You're still losing the spells, which need to be made up. You still only gain +5 max XP in your mind and a slightly higher carrying capacity (actually lower depending on what you choose to tank partially). On top of that you still have lower mana.

[Whirlin]

Based on that logic, what's the benefit of fixstating at all? You're still losing the spells, which need to be made up. You still only gain +5 max XP in your mind and a slightly higher carrying capacity (actually lower depending on what you choose to tank partially). On top of that you still have lower mana.

Is this a serious question?

When I fixstated, I gained about +11 STR, +11 CON, +17 AGL, +7 DIS, +6 WIS at the price of -9 INF... All other stats were already capped pre-fixing, so there were no stat tradeoffs of having to deal with a reduced DEX for the next 20 levels. The -9 INF is irrelevant as I already hit grandmaster alchemist. I didn't LOSE any core stats in the process.

I don't have specifics for total TP change, as I fixskilled back to archery simultaneously for the total cost of about ~50ish spell ranks to go from 1x to 2x perception and pick up 1x Ranged.

At cap, stats aren't continuing to increase at all, whereas TP continue to increase. I've already gained about 33 PTP/MTP since capping two weeks ago (RPA).

The difference is a single reduction of TP, when your only purpose in gaining XP is directly adding TP, when stats have no other alternative form of growth, while you're already settled and comfortable in the final hunting ground you'll ever hunt in.
versus
Reducing your combat orientated core stats AND reducing you TP, AND potentially reducing TP earned per every level between now and CAP for stats that will naturally continue to grow anyway.

[masterdtwin]

Is this a serious question?

When I fixstated, I gained about +11 STR, +11 CON, +17 AGL, +7 DIS, +6 WIS at the price of -9 INF... All other stats were already capped pre-fixing, so there were no stat tradeoffs of having to deal with a reduced DEX for the next 20 levels. The -9 INF is irrelevant as I already hit grandmaster alchemist. I didn't LOSE any core stats in the process.

I don't have specifics for total TP change, as I fixskilled back to archery simultaneously for the total cost of about ~50ish spell ranks to go from 1x to 2x perception and pick up 1x Ranged.

At cap, stats aren't continuing to increase at all, whereas TP continue to increase. I've already gained about 33 PTP/MTP since capping two weeks ago (RPA).

The difference is a single reduction of TP, when your only purpose in gaining XP is directly adding TP, when stats have no other alternative form of growth, while you're already settled and comfortable in the final hunting ground you'll ever hunt in.
versus
Reducing your combat orientated core stats AND reducing you TP, AND potentially reducing TP earned per every level between now and CAP for stats that will naturally continue to grow anyway.

No, it wasn't a serious question. But my point is, the same changes would apply to a statfix at level 80+. Going by the stats I gave, even at 80 there would be a net gain of 31 stat points.

As far as gainint TP's post-cap absolutely. You continue to gain TP's... However you are STILL BEHIND whatever TP's you lost.

I guess all I'm saying is, if you are 80+ You can statfix without it being an issue. I just don't like these 'set in stone' rules that everyone insists on following. How do you know that that +12 Agility from statfixing at 80+ isn't going to save you a death or two from maneuver attacks. Is 1 less death per level worth losing 6AS at 80 and having that difference diminish as you get closer to cap?

[Whirlin]

As far as gainint TP's post-cap absolutely. You continue to gain TP's... However you are STILL BEHIND whatever TP's you lost.


You're missing the point... at Cap, there is no more behind, ahead of, etc... the skill limits are NEVER changing, and there is no higher hurdle that you need to reach for. You will NEVER again be weak in a new hunting ground that you're going to be forced to go to because XP slows down.

If the agility and dodge implications are worth more to you than AS, then start training in Dodging rather than spell research.

There's are very well defined reasons that it's common practice to wait til cap, and I've outlined them in the thread. Yes, you can feel free to fixstats at level 20, 30, 32, and 60 if you want, just like you're free to make a melee Sorc, in the end, you're only hurting yourself.

[masterdtwin]

You're missing the point... at Cap, there is no more behind, ahead of, etc... the skill limits are NEVER changing, and there is no higher hurdle that you need to reach for. You will NEVER again be weak in a new hunting ground that you're going to be forced to go to because XP slows down.

If the agility and dodge implications are worth more to you than AS, then start training in Dodging rather than spell research.

There's are very well defined reasons that it's common practice to wait til cap, and I've outlined them in the thread. Yes, you can feel free to fixstats at level 20, 30, 32, and 60 if you want, just like you're free to make a melee Sorc, in the end, you're only hurting yourself.

I concede... Mostly based on the fact that everytime I try to respond I get called to go do some work before I have a chance to finish my response :(