Computer Guru's - opinion needed.

[Wezas]

Found a decent deal at Dell:

2.8ghz P4, 512MB RAM, 40gb HD, no monitor.

http://www.hot-deals.org/relocate.cgi?http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=3d30h7a&s= bsd

Basically it's about $550 after tax plus $150 mail-in rebate (so, $400). Plus through my company I get either 5% or 10% off (I can't remember which).

Ram I can upgrade, HD I can upgrade, But on this system (with the integrated video card) - how easy would it be to upgrade/replace the video card?

If it's incompatible (or too much of a pain in the ass) to upgrade the video I'm going to say screw it.

I was planning on building a PC from the ground up - but this deal was pretty decent and it comes with a warranty.

[Mistomeer]

If there's an AGP slot for a video card, it's no problem. With integrated video and an AGP slot, there's usually a Bios setting to disable onboard video.

[Bobmuhthol]

The computer can definitely handle a better card, and replacing it shouldn't be much trouble. I'm pretty sure I've upgraded at least one video card. Not much of a project.

[CrystalTears]

"you can never upgrade the graphics capabilities on this computer which limits its upgradability path"

That line bothers me. If you can't upgrade the video card from their sucky one, I wouldn't do it. I'd find out about the available slots before getting it if I were you.

[Edited on 9/13/2004 by CrystalTears]

[Bobmuhthol]

Oh nevermind. The computer sucks badly.

Disregard my previous statement.

[Wezas]

I assume since it's a new PC it has an AGP slot or two.

Didn't know about the disabling the onboard video setting. I may have to actually buy this now.

I've installed Video cards before - but basically all I've done is replace what's already in there.

[CrystalTears]

"With onboard video and no AGP slot, forget about playing any serious games on it though."

Dude, you won't be able to get a decent card in this computer.

[Mistomeer]

Usually it's just a Bios setting, most I've seen is a jumper setting and I've never seen an OEM computer that has onboard video without an AGP slot and without the ability to turn off the onboard shit. That, however, doesn't mean they don't exist and that doesn't mean that this isn't one of them.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
"With onboard video and no AGP slot, forget about playing any serious games on it though."

Dude, you won't be able to get a decent card in this computer.

How can I tell if it has an AGP slot? Dell's site isn't telling me shit.

[CrystalTears]

I don't see why the ad would purposely lie to you and tell you that it doesn't have one if it did.

[Bobmuhthol]

http://www.planetunreal.com/expectations/pwned.jpg

[CrystalTears]

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/dimen_3000?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~tab=specstab#tab top

Those are the specs. Only 3 PCI slots, no AGP.

[Wezas]

Yeah, looks like I'd have to go up to the 4600 series to get an AGP slot.

Fuckers.

Thanks for your help guys.

Even you, Bob.

[MrThorbizzle]

For a cheap but powerful graphics card, I just got a Sapphire ATI Radeon 9600 for $100. Works well.

[Mistomeer]

Originally posted by MrThorbizzle
For a cheap but powerful graphics card, I just got a Sapphire ATI Radeon 9600 for $100. Works well.

Me too. They are K-rad.

[Numbers]

You could always change out the motherboard.

Mobo's aren't that expensive these days.

But for all the effort that would require, and possible compatibility issues that could creep up, you may as well just dump the cash for a better comp.

You could also just use a PCI graphics card. They're not nearly as powerful as AGP cards, but they're still pretty decent... better than onboard, that's for sure. I think the PCI model for Radeon's is the 9200, and for NVIDIA it's 5200. Not positive, though.

[Varsus]

I would also look into the mail in rebate. it could be a crap MSN one or something that requires you to spend 200+ on internet access for a year in order to get the mail in... Dell loves that.

If I were you... www.newegg.com or www.ebay.com

-Varsus

[Blazing247]

<Mobo's aren't that expensive these days. >

Speak for yourself. My MoBo alone was well over $200. Then again, it was the second best one on the market. I don't think it'd make sense to buy that Dell and swap out a single part, because most people could build a computer that's much better for not that much more.

[AnticorRifling]

http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=PROFRAME&PROD_ID=855862

sually it's just a Bios setting, most I've seen is a jumper setting and I've never seen an OEM computer that has onboard video without an AGP slot and without the ability to turn off the onboard shit

^

Consider my gateway one of those. There is actually a place n the mainboard where you can tell an AGP slot is supposed to go....but its not there.

[Wezas]

So, with Dell out of the way, I'm back to looking to build my own again. All the items are click-able to see the details.

Case: $28 (http://images10.newegg.com/productimage/11-145-047-01.JPG)

Intel Pentium4 3GHz CPU, motherboard (800mhz FSB) for $195 (http://shop.outpost.com/product/4100723)

200gb Maxtor 7200rpm 8mb buffer for $99 (http://shop4.outpost.com/product/3492233)

NEC 16x DVD+/-RW for $78 (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=27-152-032&depa=1)

1gb PC3200 DDR SDRAM for $106 (http://www.pricewatch.com/h/prc.aspx?i=33&a=5025&f=1)

Radeon 9600 256mb AGP for $111 (http://www.pricewatch.com/h/prc.aspx?i=37&a=5591&f=1)

~$615

No monitor needed - pretty sure I have all the cables I need.

Any suggestions for an inexpensive sound card? Or suggestions about the items above? (I haven't really researched them much, just trying to get a price range)

[Edited on 9-14-2004 by Wezas]

[Numbers]

Looks fine. The only thing I'd suggest is to add a cheapo CD/DVD-ROM combo drive. It'll make copying CD's and DVD's with your shiny DVD burner MUCH easier. You also may want to get two 100 gig hard drivers instead of one 200 gig, just for security reasons. If your 200 gig drive crashes, that's a LOT of lost data, and those new mega drives can be prone to crashes. If a 100 gig crashes, you can still attempt a recovery.

As for sound card, it depends entirely on what speaker setup you've got. Two tinny speakers? Hell, use onboard sound (if the mobo supports it.) Two good speakers? Get a SoundBlaster 2-channel sound card. Four to seven speakers with sub? Get a SoundBlaster Live or Audigy (not the Platinum.) Sound cards are dirt cheap these days, since the technology has somewhat reached its peak for now.

[Wezas]

Bumpity Bump Bump

I'm back to Dell, hard to beat the deals.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=4d30h5a&s= bsd

Configured:

Dell Dimension 3000
Intel Pentium 4 3.0ghz w/ HT (HyperThreading) Technology
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
512mb Dual Channel 400mhz DDR SDRAM
$150 mail-in rebate
Dell Quietkey Keyboard
Dell 2-button Scroll Mouse
Free Dell 922 Photo All-In-One printer with 1 year AE service
80GB Ultra ATA/100 7200RPM Hard Drive
Single Drive: 48x CD-RW Drive
3.5 in Floppy Drive
No Monitor

No AGP slot - but I've seen that PCI video cards have come a long way. The DVD burners they had as options were too pricy and were only 8x. I can buy a 16x for under $100.

$564
-$28 (5% My Company Discount)
+$29 Tax
+$13 Shipping
-$150 mail-in rebate
-------------------------------
$428 shipped

Going to call up to make check and see how many dimm slots are availble and to make sure the rebate doesn't involve me getting anything else.

[Tsa`ah]

I'm calling Monday. Thanksgivings are killing me.

[Izalude]

I've got a Dell Dimension. I tried installing a PCI GeForce 4 video card, which ended up not working. With Dell (at least in Canada), you can upgrade a few features before they ship the computer to you. So I'd reccomend having them put in a better video card for you before they ship it. I got the upgraded sound card with mine, and I've had no problems.

[AnticorRifling]

No DVD player or burner, weak on the RAM, XP-home, HDD is decent size but I'm partial to SCSI or at the very least SATA, the processor is the only real big plus I see on that system. Not a bad price though.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Someone tell me what they think of the HP Media Center pcs

Edit: Here at the stats, at ~2200

Operating System Microsoft(R) Windows(R) XP Media Center Edition edit

Processor Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 540 w/HT Technology (3.2GHz) edit

Memory 1 GB DDR / PC3200 (2 DIMM) edit

Hard Drive 250GB 7200 rpm SATA Hard Drive edit

HP Personal Media Drives 160 GB 7200 rpm HP Personal Media Drive edit

Primary CD/DVD Drive Double Layer 16X DVD+/-R/RW drive edit

Secondary CD/DVD Drive 48x max. CD-ROM Drive edit

Front Productivity Ports 2 USB 2.0, 1 Firewire, 9-in-1 card reader + WinDVD edit

Graphics Card 256MB DDR ATI Radeon X600 Pro with TV-Out and DVI edit

Sound Card Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS with front audio ports edit

Keyboard and Mouse HP Wireless Media Center kybd, Wireless Opt. Mouse edit

Speakers Altec-Lansing VS2121 2.1 Speakers edit

Productivity Software Microsoft(R) Works 7.0/Money 2004/MSN Encarta Plus edit

your additional options:


Media Center Extender HP Media Center Extender x5400 edit


[Edited on 11-24-2004 by Suppa Hobbit Mage]

[Wezas]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
No DVD player or burner, weak on the RAM, XP-home, HDD is decent size but I'm partial to SCSI or at the very least SATA, the processor is the only real big plus I see on that system. Not a bad price though.

I could upgrade to a DVD-Rom for like $15, but I'm already planning on getting a burner for cheap. RAM I'm upgrading myself - but they threw in a free 512 upgrade. HDD size is good enough for me, no SCSI needed. I have XP Pro at home - XP Home is just the default free option :saint:

Also, just tried to configure it using my company's purchase plan. And the purchase plan basically nullified all of the rebates, etc. So screw that, buying it myself, and scrap the $28 I'd save.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Hey, nerds. I was talking to you. Is that HP think up above any good or what? I like the idea of being able to surf/show pictures (read porn) on my big screen.

Is media center any good?

[AnticorRifling]

Yes they are good. I've set up a few of them for our big conference rooms. They are fast and easy to use. Personally I'm an HP man so my opinion could be a tad biased. I'd bump the RAM, and lose the productivity software because it's junk. Spend the money and get the full office xp/2003 suite.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

How much more RAM do you think? 2 gig?

Not so concerned with the software, because I have XP full suite on CD at home. More looking for hardware specs.

[AnticorRifling]

I'm all about the more the merrier. Currently I'm running 2GB but I'm looking to bump it to 4GB just because I can :cool:

I think anything over 1GB RAM is sufficent and will be for the next year at least.

[Numbers]

Chances are you'll never be using anything that requires more than a gig of Ram.

My opinion? The system stats look just fine. Super-powerful computer.

I dislike HP, however. Shoddy is a good word to describe them.

The whole "Media Center" XP thing is mostly a gimmick, too.

My advice? Two options. Build it yourself for far less money but far more risk. Or, splurge a couple of extra hundred bucks and buy an Alienware. They've pretty much got the best support and workmanship out there right now.

I recently purchased an Alienware that's got mostly the same stats as the machine you posted above, except it's got a P4 550 3.4, 1gig DDR2 SDRAM at 533, a PCIExpress mobo, and a GeForce 6800 GT PCI Express 256 MB DDR3. With a $500 rebate and free shipping, it only cost a little over 2k.

I was planning on building my own machine with the same components that the Alienware has, but I would have probably added watercooling, but I just didn't see myself having the free time. And, it only would have cost about $400 or so less, with no customer support whatsoever.

[AnticorRifling]

If you build it yourself you need no customer support. :cool:

[Numbers]

Until something asplodes.

Then customer support is useful.

I'm just speaking from experience. Through two years of college, I used a machine that I built myself. Worked great during the time I had it... until the motherboard burnt out. A week of troubleshooting, another week of trying to fix it with no luck, and then deciding I should just settle and buy a Dell, and then two and a half more weeks waiting for them to build it and ship it.

It equaled to me spending a lot of time in the computer labs, which wasn't much fun.