NBA: The Late Bloom of Scottie Pippen

[Latrinsorm]

Narratives are hard. The Jordan narrative is that a player should have limited early success, then learn how to win (by losing), then they are a winner and they win, and also clutch. But Valthissa's "Stumbling on Wins" book avows that an NBA player peaks at age 24. Who is right and who is wrong? It is definitely right to say that basketball is a team sport. Scottie Pippen first played for the Bulls in 1988, and the Bulls first won a title in 1991 (Jordan age 27, Pippen age 25), so he and Jordan had to learn how to win, right?

There have been 40 players with 6+ years of 10+ Win Shares in NBA history (of players who played entirely in the NBA), including Scottie Pippen whose first year was aged 25. The average age of these players' first 10+ WS season was 925/40 = 23.125. (Incidentally, Horace Grant also had his first 10+ WS year in 1991, at age 25.) Did they learn how to win in the clutch crucible of playoff clutchness, or did it just so happen that Horace and Scottie were pretty lousy their first three years for whatever reason, and it further just so happened that in their fourth year they were both good players and as a result the Bulls won the title?

(Did you know that Scottie Pippen was an All-Star in 1990, but not 1991? Did you further know that Horace Grant was never an All-Star on a Bulls championship team? The Eastern All-Star forwards in 1991 were Barkley, Bird, King, McHale, Wilkins as an injury replacement for that pussy Bird. Why was a 34-year-old Bernard King selected in 1991 off of a pathetic Washington Bu- Wizards, Wizards, definitely Wizards team? At the All-Star break King was averaging 29.9 points per game, third in the league behind Jordan and Barkley. Defense? Passing? No. GET BUCKETS.)

It is especially interesting to consider this in light of LeBron James' career arc. He had limited early success, then he lost a lot, then he up and changed teams, whining about how his Cleveland teammates were pretty lousy... then he went to the Finals three times in a row and won two FMVPs. What if his Cleveland teammates were pretty lousy, and unlike Scottie they had no late bloom to look forward to? Wouldn't that make him factually correct for taking his talents to South Beach?

[waywardgs]

I don't think lebron was "factually incorrect" for going to mee ami, but it did make him kind of an asshole. Besides, eff that hour-long masturbatory fluff piece "The Decision" or whatever the hell it was called.

[subzero]

Upon entering the sport forum I saw the title, "The Late Scotty Pippen" as I was hitting the back button. "Noooo!", I said to meself as I quickly hit forward to verify said title. Praise be to the hoops gods, for Scotty has not passed!

[Anebriated]

I wish you liked sports other than basketball. The write-ups are well done but your loyalty to Lebron is quite evident and basketball kinda sucks as there are so few quality players and too many teams.

[Latrinsorm]

Thanks! I dreamed LeBron was on the same subway as me, gave me dap, and asked my opinion on a certain basketball issue, and I choked so hard. Also I didn't have any pants on. Take from that what you will.

[waywardgs]

Thanks! I dreamed LeBron was on the same subway as me, gave me dap, and asked my opinion on a certain basketball issue, and I choked so hard. Also I didn't have any pants on. Take from that what you will.
Did lebron?

[Tgo01]

Did lebron?

Well Latrin did say he choked...

[Warriorbird]

Latrin got hot and bothered when he watched "The Decision." It's the difference between him and everybody else. Lebron? Good player? Certainly. Kind of a pretentious jerk? Yes.

[Latrinsorm]

Did lebron?That's a known unknown, he was sitting down.
Latrin got hot and bothered when he watched "The Decision." It's the difference between him and everybody else. Lebron? Good player? Certainly. Kind of a pretentious jerk? Yes.I am on the record as booing the "The Decision", I am just pointing out that practically speaking LeBron has chosen... wisely.

With that said, I think it's inaccurate to describe him as pretentious. I would say that his various public relations errors have resulted from a lack of pretense. Kobe Bryant could have pulled off The Decision, because Kobe Bryant has never doubted himself in any way, and he is very eager to let you know that you shouldn't either. Kobe under contract demanded a trade, de-demanded a trade, re-demanded a trade, demanded that multiple teammates be traded, demanded that the coach be changed. No one cares, because these were demands. Kobe was absolutely sure of himself and his legend, and that goes a long way in the eyes of the public. (A horde of inexplicably unalienable media sycophants is a plus too, obviously.)

LeBron is a normal guy: he doubts, he second-guesses. It is precisely the indecisiveness of his decision that doomed him. For an even more graphic example, look at how Dwight Howard fared in the court of public opinion.

[Anebriated]

Kobe already had rings on his finger when he made those moves though.

[Warriorbird]

That's a known unknown, he was sitting down.I am on the record as booing the "The Decision", I am just pointing out that practically speaking LeBron has chosen... wisely.

With that said, I think it's inaccurate to describe him as pretentious. I would say that his various public relations errors have resulted from a lack of pretense. Kobe Bryant could have pulled off The Decision, because Kobe Bryant has never doubted himself in any way, and he is very eager to let you know that you shouldn't either. Kobe under contract demanded a trade, de-demanded a trade, re-demanded a trade, demanded that multiple teammates be traded, demanded that the coach be changed. No one cares, because these were demands. Kobe was absolutely sure of himself and his legend, and that goes a long way in the eyes of the public. (A horde of inexplicably unalienable media sycophants is a plus too, obviously.)

LeBron is a normal guy: he doubts, he second-guesses. It is precisely the indecisiveness of his decision that doomed him. For an even more graphic example, look at how Dwight Howard fared in the court of public opinion.

Comparing somebody pretentious to somebody else pretentious doesn't render him less so. That and the already mentioned ring bit.