Reroll - Most "Optimal" Rogue?

[blanks]

After coming back(6+ year break) and having an awful(Not that bad, until I made him into an archer) time rolling and titling a gnome rogue, I want to ask for some help/opinions on most "optimal" rogue builds and race combination.

My main goal is to be able to at least 90-95% of boxes that I loot, and also be able to up hunt by a few training if possible.

I know a few typical cookie build -

Any elves - archery
Dwarf/Giant/Half-Krov - Sword & Broad


Yeah.... Thats about it. Is Two weapon combat or anything else viable?

Additionally, what are good societies for rogues? GoS is pretty new to me, but seems very stamina intensive, which I thought would be needed for sweep? CoL has always been a nice bonus to AS/DS, staunching. Voln was always... Pleh. Never seemed that great, especially with dreams exp multiplier getting taken away.


Sorry about all the questions!! I don't want to waste my time and roll up another bad combo.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

My human rogue starting stats were this:


Strength (STR): 60
Constitution (CON): 70
Dexterity (DEX): 62
Agility (AGI): 50
Discipline (DIS): 73
Aura (AUR): 82
Logic (LOG): 73
Intuition (INT): 60
Wisdom (WIS): 88
Influence (INF): 42

And now they are this:

Strength (STR): 98 (29) ... 106 (33)
Constitution (CON): 98 (24) ... 98 (24)
Dexterity (DEX): 98 (24) ... 98 (24)
Agility (AGI): 98 (24) ... 98 (24)
Discipline (DIS): 98 (24) ... 98 (24)
Aura (AUR): 99 (24) ... 99 (24)
Logic (LOG): 98 (29) ... 98 (29)
Intuition (INT): 98 (29) ... 98 (29)
Wisdom (WIS): 99 (24) ... 99 (24)
Influence (INF): 71 (10) ... 71 (10)

I don't remember the bonuses and what not that a gnome get, though I am sure it's on Krakipedia.

[Cereal Killer]

This game is easy enough that nothing is not viable. You can make it to cap playing a mutant build. If you want an easy route, then go with the cookie cutter builds. They're ubiquitous for a reason. In terms of races, as long as you're not playing a small race, you won't run into any problems. Just figure out which race you want to rp and go from there.

In terms of your racial perception, elves are just as good at swinging a weapon as firing a bow. Dwarf sword and board is questionable because they have trouble reaching the heads of average sized monsters with an ambush. They're okay archers, though, because their bonus to strength knocks down bow RT and you can fire at an eye from any height.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Oh and I am an archer. And it's badass.

[JustDan]

Archery and picking is a very nice combination, TP-wise. I play an elf, and have zero issues at cap. There will be growing pains with any build you play, though. There are always plateaus and dull/hard spots in the level progression. Level 30 is annoying, as is 50, and 85 (generally speaking).

For races, if you're going with an archer, play whatever you like. You can hit an eye from any height. If not, then go for a tall race. Elves and Giantmen are popular choices for a reason. There are a few very successful dwarves, who I believe aim for the back with their initial shot, and do quite well (knockdown or killshot). You can make just about anything work, just be aware of your hurdles ahead of time.

If I were you, I'd figure out what race I wanted to play, and what style of hunting I wanted to use (UAC, OHE or OHB, THW, or Ranged). Then I'd download the Tsoran Trainer spreadsheet, use the Stat Cruncher, and figure out how to allocate the TPs for everything that you want to do. If (when) it doesn't work, then modify it. Throw out any specific questions you might have here, or browse these forums, and you'll find answers to your particulars. The 'what build should I use' has been done ad nauseum here over the years, and you can find all those arguments (with their benefits and pitfalls) for input.

As everyone said, you can MAKE anything work. Get yourself a pocket mage, spend a bazillion bucks on coins, and you too can be a dual-wielding ambushing whip-blade half-krolvin of doom! You'll just die a lot, and have a hard time frying most of the time. The point is to have a character you can enjoy, otherwise you're not going to want to slog through the grind that is GS.

[Whirlin]

You're asking too broad of a question. "Optimal" rogue for what?
Do you want to maximize AS?
Do you want to pick the biggest locks?
Do you want to have the highest defense?
Do you want to be the most resilient and die the least?
Do you want to stay hidden the best?
Do you want to be the best at all weapons?

Every race is going to align differently. If you want to use bows, and have the highest AS, you'd want a halfling... but then you're sacrificing carrying capacity and resilency from max HP. If you want the resiliency and relative size bonuses, you'd want a giant, but then you're innately worse on CMAN defense than a smaller race, and lack the Dex bonus for ranged AS... but have the strength to fire faster without surge of strength.

And with that in mind, what Cereal said is spot on. While this game is amount numbers, it's pretty forgiving. You could likely roll up a giant rogue with 20 STR and 20 Dex, using bows from level 0, and be able to cap (of course, with some difficulty). I'd consider any personal preference on race to trump the numbers.

[Jeril]

you'd want a giant, but then you're innately worse on CMAN defense than a smaller race, and lack the Dex bonus for ranged AS... but have the strength to fire faster without surge of strength.

Wrong word choice. As a giant you are going to be harder to use most combat maneuvers against because of the larger size, however, it is also that larger size and lack of an insanely huge racial maneuver bonus that makes them easier to get hit by anything involving the standard maneuver roll. They also have a penalty to both dexterity and agility bonuses which doesn't help either.

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/SMR

No idea why but this page only talks about creature maneuvers and doesn't include any of the spells like spike thorn, boil earth, ewave, and stone fist, which also use the SMR.

[Whirlin]

Wrong word choice. As a giant you are going to be harder to use most combat maneuvers against because of the larger size, however, it is also that larger size and lack of an insanely huge racial maneuver bonus that makes them easier to get hit by anything involving the standard maneuver roll. They also have a penalty to both dexterity and agility bonuses which doesn't help either.

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/SMR

No idea why but this page only talks about creature maneuvers and doesn't include any of the spells like spike thorn, boil earth, ewave, and stone fist, which also use the SMR.

So what you're saying is that at the end of the day, giants have total net lower maneuver defense from no racial benefit and crappy dex/agl, which doesn't compensate for the +-10 size values?
:p

[Jeril]

So what you're saying is that at the end of the day, giants have total net lower maneuver defense from no racial benefit and crappy dex/agl, which doesn't compensate for the +-10 size values?
:p

I think having an extra 100 health can be useful, not to mention being able to carry more then a wet paper towel before being encumbered. However, after weighing all the ups and downs I am pretty sure that halfings are mechanically better then any other race. Now, either the person who was in charge of halflings had a major hard on for them and was able to slip things past those above them, or those above them had the hard on and it didn't matter. Or maybe they just felt sorry for halfings because they are all short and hairy, I doubt we'll ever really know for sure. That being said, I am still glad I made Jeril a giant.

[Whirlin]

There's something to be said for the RP value of being able to remove your boots, scratch your toes, and get that special messaging about running your fingers through your silky foot hair. Reactions are always priceless.

Just proves that race selection is subjective to goals.

[Danical]

I think having an extra 100 health can be useful, not to mention being able to carry more then a wet paper towel before being encumbered. However, after weighing all the ups and downs I am pretty sure that halfings are mechanically better then any other race. Now, either the person who was in charge of halflings had a major hard on for them and was able to slip things past those above them, or those above them had the hard on and it didn't matter. Or maybe they just felt sorry for halfings because they are all short and hairy, I doubt we'll ever really know for sure. That being said, I am still glad I made Jeril a giant.

When the racial benefits were solidified, getting to level 20 was INSANE. I don't recall many maneuvers being that deadly except for Roa'ters and they didn't even use a standard formula. Although Darkstone had a fair number of maneuvers. Having a lot of HP seemed like a pretty gigantic benefit. Of course this assumes they had the maneuver benefits set up then.

EDIT: The biggest problem with GS is that there hasn't been a redesign or update to components of the game that desperately need it because much of the game was based around level 20 or level 40.

[Jeril]

EDIT: The biggest problem with GS is that there hasn't been a redesign or update to components of the game that desperately need it because much of the game was based around level 20 or level 40.

They basically need to remake the game from the ground up and use a better coding language then GSL, or whatever it is, I don't see it ever happening though.