Empath Script

[ken]

Anyone have a good empath script that will look at someone and transfer over the wounds that it finds?

Thanks

[Bobmuhthol]

YOU ARE GOING TO USE A SCRIPT TO GET ALL YOUR EXPERIENCE FOR YOU YOU FUCKING CHEATER BURN IN HELL DIE DIE DIE.

[ken]

[Dr. Evil]Riiiggghhht[\Dr. Evil]

[Reyek]

works in the wizard

[Drew2]

Reyek you fucking wanker.

First of all... script healers are just as bad as fucking vultures. What is the fucking point if the most healing you're going to do is .heal <target>? Fucking experience whoremonger. Let the empaths who actually work for their shit do it, and take your pansy ass wanna be healer to the gates of Hell for all I care.

Second of all... if you're going to write a fucking script, don't take someone else's and just add a a few matchwait groups at the beginning of it. I'm not a fucking moron. I use the .full script all the time.. alone, at a table, when I'm healing down scars, so you're not some bad ass script writer for jacking someone's shit. "Written by Reyek. Inspired by Deathraven" my ass. "Jacked by Reyek, written by Deathraven" is more like it. Bitch.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

If I was an empath, I'd be all bitter like Tayre too.

[Scott]

They need to put a 3 second RT on transfering wounds EVEN when you target them.

[Caels]

You can script round an RT easily.

I script healed when I played, but then again I rarely healed. Most of my experience came from hunting. Most of the people I healed were still hunting when I came across them.

I see nothing wrong with script healing, but I can agree that you should not use it in TSC or somewhere similar where other empaths are typing everything out. It just doesn't seem fair. But you also have to take into account that the empaths choosing to type also had the choice to script. If they don't script it's their own choice and they can't rightfully badger the scripters for making a different choice.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Caels
You can script round an RT easily.

I script healed when I played, but then again I rarely healed. Most of my experience came from hunting. Most of the people I healed were still hunting when I came across them.

I see nothing wrong with script healing, but I can agree that you should not use it in TSC or somewhere similar where other empaths are typing everything out. It just doesn't seem fair. But you also have to take into account that the empaths choosing to type also had the choice to script. If they don't script it's their own choice and they can't rightfully badger the scripters for making a different choice.

Oh I know you can. The problem is script healers can pull 10 wounds off you in like 2 seconds because there is no RT. Putting in a 3 second RT blocks script healers from pulling every wound in like 2 seconds....... This would allow everyone to pull some wounds instead of that one person getting them all.

[imported_Kranar]

<< It just doesn't seem fair. But you also have to take into account that the empaths choosing to type also had the choice to script. >>

For many, including myself, the choice to script is the choice to cheat.

Many people don't like to cheat. I don't happen to be one of them but I do respect those who don't wish to cheat, and I think that cheating in a public shoving it in everyone elses face, is disrespectful to say the least.

[Caels]

As I said however, I don't think it should be done around TSC or similar areas.

And this part's to Sintik,

When I played GemStone, we simply took turns on the people who came through. It's really messy to try and let people share off one victim.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Caels
When I played GemStone, we simply took turns on the people who came through. It's really messy to try and let people share off one victim.

I tried to play a friends empath and tried healing in TSC. I got discouraged because everyone was jumping over everyone. Even when I nodded to someone and said "sure, I'll heal you." Someone would start healing anyway.

I know it use to be like that, but not anymore. It's a big mess. It's whoever can type ".heal person" the fastest. I don't know how it is in mule or wherever, but it's just bad now in TSC. First off, nothing in Gemstone should have a 0 second RT (just like you can't swing for 0 seconds with haste like you use to). Slap a 3 second heal RT on there or hard RT just like transfer any and it would make it a little easier on non scripters.

[Caels]

Tayre scripts, I have photographic evidence...

[Artha]

Start:
put trans any
pause 90
goto Start

[Ilvane]

Oh god, I heal in Icemule, nod..pull a dead patient into my arms, and someone else heals them..god that irritates me beyond all belief.

At least my empath is old enough to hunt now that I don't have to worry about it as much, but it's so frustrating.

Scripting is worse though.;)

-A

[ken]

Wow... didn't expect to start a war... I agree with Lady Daina, however. Just because I wanted a script doesn't mean I'm going to be a vulture. I just don't see the point in typing out 20 commands when I can just type one. Doesn't mean I'm not going to wait my turn. Do you really care how quickly I transfer from my patients if I don't touch yours? Personally, I get enjoyment from the act of healing someone... not typing the commands! Not that it matters anyway... my empath is my secondary character that I play when bored... which usually happens late at night. Most likely I will always be the only empath around when healing. Can't we all just get along? :) Simutronics wouldn't have added the scripting capability to the wizard if they didn't want us to use it.

[Artha]

Simutronics wouldn't have added the scripting capability to the wizard if they didn't want us to use it.

Use != Abuse...Policy 18 for details.

[CrystalTears]

Guys, can we please cut the guy some slack? He just asked for a script, so it doesn't automatically mean he was going to use it to AFK script. Let's give people the benefit of the doubt once in a while, mmkay? ;)

[Drew2]

AFK scripting wasn't my problem. My problem is, like Kranar said, with people that "cheat". The only time I ever "hack" or "cheat" is when I'm playing a one player game by myself and I've already beat it without cheats.

Script healing is basically the same as the hunting scripts out there. Whether you're AFK or not, using them turns the game into an auto-scroll rather than an actual RPG or interactive game. What the hell use is it to type in a line and just sit there and stare at the screen blankly? At least if you do it yourself you're actualy *playing* a game and not watching the game go by itself. That's just retarded.

[Drew2]

Speaking of empaths...

>fame empath 1
>

Fame List -- Empaths -- Starting Rank 1
_____________________________________________
Rank| Name | Fame |Lvl|G| Race
---------------------------------------------
91 Snowie 60005139 142 F Sylvan
212 Violenttmoon 35163787 160 F DarkElf
262 Lazalye 30573383 121 F HalfElf
507 Caylene 18819766 106 F DarkElf
527 Kareese 18462515 134 F HalfElf
532 Manodith 18289139 123 M Sylvan
650 Telagan 15412089 106 M Human
789 Bronnwyn 13087506 156 F Sylvan
801 Kaith 12887688 78 M HalfElf

...That's just pathetic. 9. Out of 1000.

[Edited on 8-27-2003 by Tayre]

[Soulpieced]

I have used a script to gain my last 11 trains, so?

[Drew2]

So you're a lazy, cheating, worthless bastard.

That is all.

[CrystalTears]

So if someone has arthritis or pain in their joints for whatever reason and still want to play and scripting is their best option, according to you they shouldn't play?

Besides there's nothing wrong with scripting in and of itself. Sometimes things that need to be said or done take so much typing that it's just easier to do it that way, such as wedding ceremonies, bard songs, storytelling and guild work. It's when you walk away from your computer and aren't conscious of what's happening is when it's against policy and wrong on all counts.

Judging people because they want to make their gaming time easier by calling them lazy or cheaters is not a fair assumption to make unless you know all the reasons of why it's being done.

[Edited on 8/27/2003 by CrystalTears]

[Drew2]

Take some damn Tylenol before you play, if you're old joints can't handle it and step off my full-typing toes.

[imported_Kranar]

<< So if someone has arthritis or pain in their joints for whatever reason and still want to play and scripting is their best option, according to you they shouldn't play? >>

Having a computer play a game for you in Gemstone is just like me downloading a bot to play Counterstrike for me.

When I stop playing the game, and let my computer take over, then it is indeed cheating. If someone who is quadraplegic wants to play Counterstrike and downloads a bot to play it because they can't move their arms or legs, they are cheating. If someone with massive arthiritis uses a script to hunt, they are cheating.

Cheating isn't an intention, it's a procedure. It makes life easier, of course it makes life easier, all forms of cheating make life easier. And just because something is or isn't against policy doesn't mean it's not cheating. If I swear, I'm breaking policy, but I'm not cheating. There are tons of things I can do against policy that aren't cheating, and tons of things that are against policy that's also cheating. No where in the policy does it say anything about cheating, heck many GMs have even said that MAing is considered cheating.

Policy != cheating.

[Trinitis]

huh, I've been using a healing script with my empath for quite some time. I made it myself as a personal challenge (the script, that is..) and now I use it. I don't vulture, I don't steal peoples wounds..I don't normally heal unless asked. *shrug* I personally see nothing wrong with it. Heck, I use a lockpicking script for Adredrin, because I hate trying to keep track of all the EXACT names of my lockpicks.

-Adredrin

[imported_Kranar]

Right or wrong, it's still cheating. If cheating isn't wrong, then it isn't wrong.

However, if one wishes to argue why scripting isn't cheating, then one needs to make a far better arguement than simply describing what their script does. One needs to explain how getting a computer to play the game that a human being was supposed to play isn't cheating.

[Caels]

I think yer missing one key thing though, Kranar.



[b]1 cheat verb 1. To deprive of something through fraud or deceit. 2. To practice fraud or trickery. 3. To violate the rules (as of a game) dishonestly. --cheat-er noun
2 cheat noun 1. The act of deceiving : FRAUD, DECEPTION. 2. one that cheats : a dishonest person.

I for one, am quite honest about my scripting, and deceive no one with it. For two, scripting does not break Simutronics rules but they do have rules regarding how you can script. So all in all, scripting is not cheating, at least in GemStone. In any other game it might be, but Simu says its okay, so its not cheating.

[imported_Kranar]

Well if someone wants to hide behind a dictionary to tell themselves that GETTING A COMPUTER TO PLAY A GAME FOR THEM isn't cheating... then have at it.

We are all sociopaths to one degree or another, willing to go to any desperate means to justify our actions regardless of how absurd those justifications are.

[Caels]

How is a definition from a Merriam-Webster dictionary absurd?


Stick to what yer good at Kranar, mathematics, and leave the writing stuff to me.


Anyhow, I'm only saying that by the definition it is not cheating (that's in combination with Simu's rules). Personally I do think its cheating, only I've always been the type to look at an issue from different aspects.

And you evil bastard, come back to work for me so you can do all the dirty stuff. I hate issuing warnings and shit.

[HarmNone]

I have not played in quite awhile. Has empathing become so difficult that a script is needed to heal? That sounds very strange to me.

HarmNone

[Reyek]

its not a matter of difficulty. its a matter of laziness/inginuity

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Reyek
its not a matter of difficulty. its a matter of laziness/inginuity

Laziness involves avoiding the difficulty of work. What hard work is involved in healing?

HarmNone

[Reyek]

look <target>
trans <target> left arm
trans <target chest
etc etc etc

alot easier/lazier to just do .heal <target> and it does the work for ya

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
So if someone has arthritis or pain in their joints for whatever reason and still want to play and scripting is their best option, according to you they shouldn't play?


I would not think anyone would begrudge people with disabilities from enjoying GemStone3. Are those the only people who use healing scripts to heal?

HarmNone

[Drew2]

Originally posted by Reyek
look <target>
trans <target> left arm
trans <target chest
etc etc etc

alot easier/lazier to just do .heal <target> and it does the work for ya

...have you actually read this thread? Or are you just a blithering idiot?

[Reyek]

you know tayre you talk alot of shit. i have read this thread i was respond to one person. but it would take inteligence for you to comprehend that something your greatly lacking.

[Back]

Looks like the mob is going to try to get scripting banned now.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Reyek
look <target>
trans <target> left arm
trans <target chest
etc etc etc

alot easier/lazier to just do .heal <target> and it does the work for ya

I guess some might define the above as hard work. I certainly would not. I could see macros to ease repetitive typing, but a script? To me, it seems like overkill in the extreme.

HarmNone

[Drew2]

Originally posted by Reyek
you know tayre you talk alot of shit. i have read this thread i was respond to one person. but it would take inteligence for you to comprehend that something your greatly lacking.

Right, and in your response, you totally disregarded everything everyone was saying about script healing. So your only excuse is a blithering idiot.

And I'll let Bobmuhthol correct your spelling/grammar. It makes him feel good about himself.

[Reyek]

I guess some might define the above as hard work. I certainly would not. I could see macros to ease repetitive typing, but a script? To me, it seems like overkill in the extreme.

HarmNone

its all in the eye of the beholder. some think its overkill some dont. Obviously Gemstone doesnt obejct to it or they wouldnt have that built into the game. its not against policy so its not breaking the rules. I script hunted my characters almost from birth. as long as i dont do it AFK im not breaking any policies. like or not cant stop the person from doing it unless you can prove they are AFK. THats the only people i have a problem with that script. if your gonna do it AFK you need to be dealt with. if your gonna watch it then your good in my book. Just cause the computer is doing all the work for you doesnt make it cheating anymore then you doing it yourself. you had to take the time and effort to get all the matches and commands together to make it work....problem solving skills at its best.

[Drew2]

Another point you bring up and fail to see how much of an idiot it makes you.

You didn't write the script. You may have added the LOOK and TRANS part at the beginning, but 75% of it was not written by you.

So again, blithering idiot.

[Reyek]

Right, and in your response, you totally disregarded everything everyone was saying about script healing. So your only excuse is a blithering idiot.

And I'll let Bobmuhthol correct your spelling/grammar. It makes him feel good about himself.

my repsonse was no way disregarding what they had to say. if you read it you woudl see that. just showing how it was easier or lazier to run a script. but you dont see that so its your own loss

[Bobmuhthol]

Kill yourself, Tayre.

[Back]

Kranar, champion and policy know it all, should be banned for afk scripting.

Pot: Hey Kettle, you're black!

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Reyek
[quote]
Obviously Gemstone doesnt obejct to it or they wouldnt have that built into the game. its not against policy so its not breaking the rules.

I had not thought about scripting as breaking any rules. It just seems a bit silly to me. GemStone3 is a very easy game to play in the first place. There are many MU*s that require much more mental effort than does GemStone3.

To each his own. It just seemed odd to me that someone would find the need to script something that was so simple to do.

HarmNone

[imported_Kranar]

<< How is a definition from a Merriam-Webster dictionary absurd? >>

It's not an issue of absurdity, it's the fact that a dictionary is only meant to be used as a general reference tool, like an encyclopedia.

A dictionary can not capture the essence of a word, or its meaning in full. It can not explain the symbolism of a word, its metaphorical meaning, or even its spirit. A dictionary just gives a dry technical definition to be used as a GENERAL reference. Why do you think when writing an essay, a professor will ALWAYS tell his students to define the terms of the essay? I mean if all that was ever nessecary was to pull out a dictionary and look it up, then it would be redundent to do so. But it's because a word must be looked at within the context of the discussion in order to be understood.

Therefore, within the context of this discussion, I am saying that when you get your computer to play Gemstone III for you, you are cheating. Is it so hard to believe that allowing a computer to do all the "thinking" all the "interpreting" all the "doing" for you, cheating? It's fun as hell, but cheating usually is fun as hell.

Don't let a dry reference manual cloud the true meaning of a word or obscure the use of the word within its context. I have already pointed out why breaking policy isn't cheating, I can swear my head off in the game, on the amunet, and are you saying that that's cheating? If I advertised over the amunet that people should be playing Everquest, I am breaking policy, so I am somehow cheating? Oh, wait... if you're honest about it, then you're not cheating. So if I AFK script, or I duplicate items for my own use, but I am perfectly honest about it on this message board, then I'm not cheating?

Sometimes one should look past technicalities and just be honest. I think then one can see why getting a computer to play a game for you, whether you're sitting there watching it play the game for you or not, is simply cheating.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by HarmNone

Originally posted by Reyek
[quote]
Obviously Gemstone doesnt obejct to it or they wouldnt have that built into the game. its not against policy so its not breaking the rules.

I had not thought about scripting as breaking any rules. It just seems a bit silly to me. GemStone3 is a very easy game to play in the first place. There are many MU*s that require much more mental effort than does GemStone3.

To each his own. It just seemed odd to me that someone would find the need to script something that was so simple to do.

HarmNone

Well, to be honest, normally I like to script the hunting part of the game, so it goes MUCH faster and I can spend much more time RP'in and hangin out with people..which is the TRUE point of this game (being that it is an RPG..)

-Adredrin

[Caels]

Tayre, stop your insults.

You can debate quite easily without them.

[Varsus]

Scripting = Making Some peoples life easier

Scripting while AFK = Cheeting

Those who think that all scripting is cheeting, are dumb.

-Varsus (I cheet)

[CrystalTears]

By Gemstone standards, scripting is not cheating unless you are AFK in order to earn experience or advance in some way (i.e. guild ranks, forging, fletching, etc.). If you consider making shortcuts to help you play easier cheating, then that's your opinion which I happen to disagree with.

Sometimes some of the actions to do things in this game require a lot of typing, and when it's for redundant things, it wears you out and you need some help, and that's where the scripts and macros come in. Using tools to ease use of playing is not cheating unless you break policy with them. I type very fast and have no problem typing everything out if I need to. However I would like to play longer, and sometimes I have to stop because I get tired of typing, and I'm sure others do as well.

And the reason I mentioned people who have finger/hand soreness to play is because you don't know always know the reasons of why someone uses scripts/macros, and I was just siting examples.

Does it really matter HOW someone plays now too? My god.

[Edaarin]

Heh. I don't give a crap if the empath healing me is a scripter, a vulture, or whatever (unless it's whoever currently owns Solice, I swear they need to demonicize that character....)

As long as I get healed, I don't care. However, I'm not the type to sit in TSC waiting while 10 empaths sit there afk healing down, I'll pay for herbs, doesn't matter to me.

[Drew2]

Originally posted by Caels
Tayre, stop your insults.

You can debate quite easily without them.

But it makes it 100x more fun when Bobmuhthol starts to throw a fit because of it. :(

[imported_Kranar]

<< If you consider making shortcuts to help you play easier cheating, then that's your opinion which I happen to disagree with. >>

I consider getting a computer to play the game for you cheating.

It's the one argument EVERYONE has been so wonderful at dodging, but that statement stands and I still await an explaination as to how a computer playing a game for you isn't cheating... Not to mention all my arguments seem to have been dodged even though I have countered every argument presented (cheating = breaking policy, cheating = being unhonest, I countered them all).

I still await a simple counter-argument as to how a computer playing a game for you isn't cheating.

I know we all like to pat ourselves on the back and tell ourselves we're not cheaters and just want to make life easier on ourselves... but that isn't a good enough argument, that's just a temporary sociopathic statement.

[Edited on 8-28-2003 by Kranar]

[Caels]

No matter the explanation, you'll still disagree and think someone wrong in their approach.

I'm not trying to change your mind about what is cheating and what is not, I'm simply offering my opinion and that is all you can take it for.

[imported_Kranar]

<< No matter the explanation, you'll still disagree and think someone wrong in their approach. >>

Come on... you know that's a copout.

Your opinion is that if you're unhonest about it, you're cheating.

So Drizzsdt is a cheater because he steals from people and doesn't tell them. Oh sorry, breaking policy is cheating... So Lisu is a cheater because she got banned for allegedly having sex in TSC.

Someone please just counter the argument with an explanation DETAILING why "Having my computer play a game for me isn't cheating." I can only counter your own arguments so many times before it gets tiring.

How many other examples do I have to give where people are breaking policy, or are unhonest, but AREN'T cheating before someone gives me one simple counter-argument?

[Bobmuhthol]

What if you want it to be your computer's character, and not yours? Then the computer doing all the work is perfectly legit.

[Drew2]

...Kranar.. don't even dignify that with a response.

[Caels]

Its no copout, it's me accepting that my opinion won't change yours, nor will it change anyone else's.

Computers were meant to do things for the person. The way you make it sound is that having Windows boot up automatically is cheating because your not typing in the multitudes of drivers and programs being loaded at the same time.

[imported_Kranar]

<< Computers were meant to do things for the person. >>

Okay so the best counter-argument thus far is that computers were meant to play games for people.

Okay, I honestly think that that argument is incredibly sociopathic, but so be it.

From now on, let it be known that when I get my computer to play a game for me, be it CounterStrike, Gemstone, or WarCraft III, I am not cheating.

[Edited on 8-28-2003 by Kranar]

[Bobmuhthol]

Shut up and let me make spells in your game.

[imported_Kranar]

If this doesn't make any sense to you, I'm afraid you may not be ready to make spells in UVO:



char x = id
char y = LCHandle(inputp, x)
num z, dmg = RND(100)
if(y >= 0 && y != x)
SendChar(x.name + " sets you on fire!/endl", y)
SendChar("You set " + y.name + " on fire!/endl", x)
for(z = 0, z < 7, z = z + 1)
DealDMG(dmg, 1, -1, y)
SendChar("You burn like a bitch!/endl", y)
SendChar(" ..." + intstr(dmg) + "points of damage dealt!/endl", y)
Sleep(2)
endfor
elseif(x == y)
SendChar("You can not burn yourself./endl", x)
else
SendChar("Unable to find who you/pre looking for./endl", x)
endif


[Edited on 8-28-2003 by Kranar]

[Bobmuhthol]

That makes perfect sense! Lemme play.

[Drew2]

Kinda looks like C++ to me, but not quite.

[Caels]

And Kranar, I'm not saying it isn't cheating, I've said on a few occasions that I do consider it cheating. I'm just saying that according the Simu its not cheating.

[imported_Kranar]

<< I'm just saying that according the Simu its not cheating. >>

Where does it say that scripting is or isn't cheating?

It says scripting AFK is against policy, it doesn't say scripting AFK is cheating, just like it doesn't say swearing is cheating, nor is there even a policy on cheating. GMs have said MANY times on the official BBS that multiaccounting is cheating.

[Bobmuhthol]

Njorn the Super Duper cheated.

[Caels]

And I MA'd too when I played. I know I cheated and I dun care, but when it comes to scripting people are going to have their opinions.

Lots of people think scripting is wrong and should be banned, I'm certainly not one of them, though I do not sit back and tell them to explain to me in detail why scripting is wrong.

If that's what they choose to believe, good for them. It doesn't hurt me any. And even if scripting was banned, I'd probably still do it.

[imported_Kranar]

I'm not asking what people believe in or don't believe in.

People can believe that pigs fly, or UFOs abducted them. A debate isn't about what you or me or what other people believe, it's about WHY they believe it.

Can you take a stance? If yes, good, that's the first step in a debate. Second step is the crucial one, can you support that stance? If not, then booya... go ahead and believe pigs fly or in UFOs or in ghosts or whatever, I don't care.

What I'm asking is... can someone please justify their stance on why getting a computer to play a game for you isn't cheating.

If no one can do that, then considered this debate closed.

[Caels]

Well then I guess we're arguin for the sake of the argument considering we have the same approach to whether scripting is cheating or not.

[imported_Kranar]

<< Well then I guess we're arguin for the sake of the argument considering we have the same approach to whether scripting is cheating or not. >>

Well yes, I know you think scripting is cheating and are trying to play devil's advocate. But some people here maintain it isn't and I have yet to understand why.

Every argument made here has been a reason why it's okay for them to cheat or why they cheat. No one has made a single argument as to why it ISN'T cheating. This talk about how it makes life easier because there's so much typing involved, that's just a reason why it's okay to cheat, hence the reason I call it sociopathic.

It's like me justifying that I should take steroids before running the 200m race because you know... I have arthritis, I get tired, I just want to make my life easier so cut me some slack here and let me use steroids.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Kranar
I'm not asking what people believe in or don't believe in.

People can believe that pigs fly, or UFOs abducted them. A debate isn't about what you or me or what other people believe, it's about WHY they believe it.

Can you take a stance? If yes, good, that's the first step in a debate. Second step is the crucial one, can you support that stance? If not, then booya... go ahead and believe pigs fly or in UFOs or in ghosts or whatever, I don't care.

What I'm asking is... can someone please justify their stance on why getting a computer to play a game for you isn't cheating.

If no one can do that, then considered this debate closed.

Well just for arguements sake.......

Cheating is when you violate rules. Scripting while at the computer is allowed by Gemstone. AFK scripting is not. As long as you are not violating a rule, you aren't cheating.

Even so, what is the difference between typing in a command and having the computer type in commands for you? No matter how you do it, it still getting put in there. That's like saying if your trying to get from Philadelphia to Miami, using a car is cheating because your letting something do the work for you.

Something that makes your life easier isn't cheating, IF it isn't breaking rules.

By the way, I hate all type of scripting, except travel scripts. However I don't believe that it's a persons fault for scripting, it's more Simutronic's fault for not fixing that problem IE healing wounds with no RT if the injury is targeted.

[imported_Kranar]

<< Cheating is when you violate rules. >>

But I countered this so many times Sintik. At this stage, after having countered this I think about 3-4 times, please atleast just counter my counter arguement.

So Lisu was cheating? So if I enter the game right now and say the F word in TSC, I'm cheating. If I hack someone's account I'm cheating? If I harass someone in the game I'm cheating?

It's getting tiring hearing that breaking policy is cheating when that's so absurd.

[Edited on 8-28-2003 by Kranar]

[Caels]

Oooh! Playing devil's advocate!

*ponders*

Will you give me yer soul if I bring you money and womens?

Pssh. Keep yer soul and I'll keep the money and women for myself.

And on the steroid thing, they are sacrificing something important just to have ane asier time with that race... *pales*

~Caels
Socio-empath of the first degree!

[imported_Kranar]

<< Kinda looks like C++ to me, but not quite. >>

It's a programming language I made for my MUD.

[Scott]

<<<So Lisu was cheating? So if I enter the game right now and say Fuck in TSC, I'm cheating. If I hack someone's account I'm cheating? If I harass someone in the game I'm cheating?>>>

It's like a square is a trapazoid, but a trapazoid isn't a square. You can violate rules without cheating, but you can't cheat without violating rules.

You need to answer the simple question though, as long as you are following the rules, how are you cheating? Just because you've found a way to make something easier on yourself, doesn't make it wrong as long as you are following the rules. When someone lays out a bunch of tools and supplies and says "Make me a car." Well one group makes the car using all the tools and supplies, while the other group builds a machine to make the car for them. Are they cheating? No. You can't be charged with a crime if it isn't a law. CHEATING is illegal, scripting while at the computer is not illegal, therefore it's not cheating.

[imported_Kranar]

<< You need to answer the simple question though, as long as you are following the rules, how are you cheating? >>

Because you're getting a computer to play a game for you, that is how you're cheating.

Where does it say cheating is illegal.

I have played MANY games where you can cheat, the GMs have said on the official BBS they consider multiaccounting cheating.

Sometimes games allow cheating because it can be a fun addition to the game once you've mastered it, like cheat codes in a video game, or people say they multiaccount after they reach level 100 because they don't want to go through the hassle of doing it all over again.

This isn't about comitting a crime, this isn't about breaking policy, this is about asking yourself one simple, rational question:

Can I honestly and reasonably tell myself that when a computer plays a game for me, I am not cheating. Not because I want to feel warm inside, but because it actually makes logical sense that when I let a computer play a game that I would have otherwise played, I am not cheating.

[Scott]

<<<Sometimes games allow cheating because it can be a fun addition to the game once you've mastered it, like cheat codes in a video game, or people say they multiaccount after they reach level 100 because they don't want to go through the hassle of doing it all over again. >>>>

No, for some games it is cheating for others it's not. It's like kickboxing in the US. Elbowing is cheating/illegal, while if you go to Thailand elbowing is allowed. Just because some games allow it and some don't doesn't doing something cheating. So is elbowing cheating or is it not?

<<<Can I honestly and reasonably tell myself that when a computer plays a game for me, I am not cheating.>>

I can honestly tell myself that. We both just disagree on what cheating is defined as. I personally dislike scripting, but as long as Gemstone allows it, it's not cheating, it's just boring.

[imported_Kranar]

<< Just because some games allow it and some don't doesn't doing something cheating. >>

Many games specifically allow cheating, they even define it as cheating. You enter a code and a screen will pop up that says CHEAT MENU, and you can cheat. Or sometimes in game manuals they provide the cheat codes, and the manual says "CHEAT CODES".

In Gemstone, GMs have said that multiaccounting is cheating, but they don't have a policy against it. Warden himself has even said it, there was a huge discussion about it in the catch-all folder they used to have.

Cheating can be against the rules, like sometimes there will be a specific rule against any form of cheating, but cheating doesn't nessecarily mean it's against the rules.

[StrayRogue]

Have multiple accounts is pretty much cheating. The cheat creates money for Simu though, hence why there is a lack of policy or official stance regarding it.

[CrystalTears]

Just to know what page you're on, Kranar, what definition are you using for cheating to explain your stance? Do you consider macros cheating as well?

I believe there's a difference between cutting corners and being deceiftul in your manners to advance in something, then it is to use shortcuts to get to the same destination. Does that mean that someone who uses backroads is not cheating and the person who uses the highway is? Or someone who drives using cruise control is cheating because they're not using the peddles? If that's the case, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

[StrayRogue]

I think MAing, scripting etc, can be considered all cheating; it all boils down to a personal perspective. I feel MAing is cheating. Scripting, macroing, even reading guides all could, percievibly be considered other forms of "cheating". The lack of stance from SIMU makes this issue a personal one for each of us. One thing is a definate though: we all have to tolerate it, even if we think it is cheating or not.

This argument reminds me of a game I once played, X-Com Terror from the Deep. Now if any of you have ever played X-Com TFTD, you will remember how hard it was, even on the Easy setting. My friend cheated on the game (using a money and research hack) and beat the game in a few weeks. It took me about four months. But I tell you, the feeling of pride I felt when I completed it was immense. My friend felt it was pretty easy.

I feel the above can be applied to GS; when I hit the big levels, 20, 50, 100 etc, I feel proud of what I did. I feel proud that I got to that level without some zombie wizard spelling me up, or a cleric/empath team to heal me when I die. It is MY accomplishment. I feel no pride or respect for those who MA or Ebay. Age no longer equates to respect as it once did when I first started playing.

I hope some of you understand what I'm saying.

[Soulpieced]

Kranar gets to help me with my Java homework this semester :-D

[imported_Kranar]

<< Do you consider macros cheating as well? >>

I stated what I consider to be cheating, and I won't fall for an attempt to derail my argument.

Honestly, until someone can give me an honest reason why having a computer playing a game for them isn't cheating in Gemstone, when EVERY OTHER GAME considers it cheating, when ANY game expert will tell you it is, then this whole discussion is redundant.

Some games have rules that outlaw any form of cheating, and their taken on a case by case basis. One example is using caffein in the Olympics, there was an inquiry during one of the Summer Olympics as to whether or not caffein is a form of cheating, since the Olympics specifically ban any form of cheating. They too know that cheating doesn't mean breaking the rules, you could be in a race and just decide to run in a circle, and you're breaking a rule, but you're not cheating. They of course ruled that caffein isn't a form of cheating and so athletes can take it.

Heck even ProgressQuest considers this stuff cheating when their entire game is nothing more than your computer playing it for you. This absurdity that cheating means breaking the rules is just that, an absurdity, and anyone who thinks that they can justify that a computer playing a game for them is not a form of cheating, well by all means, I'm still waiting for a reason.

It's not because you drive to work through the hiway that a computer can play a game for you, it's not because you're using the peddles that a computer can't play a game for you either. Those are all way off-topic examples, and they don't even involve a game or some form of contest. If a computer can play a game for you and it's not considered cheating... then please let me know why without using an argument I've already countered.

[CrystalTears]

Well thanks. If you're not going to at least answer one question of if you consider macros cheating as well, since they're shortcuts as well, then what's the point of having a conversation if you only want people to cater to YOUR discussion. You're not being fair in this discussion at all. It's also fair to say that no matter what anyone says, you won't consider the option that scripting is not cheating until someone wholeheartedly agrees with you.

Whether scripting is cheating is not for the players to decide since they don't set the rules, so maybe someone should ask a GM what they think since what we say doesn't matter.

Macros and scripting are shortcuts, so I don't see how my examples should be any different because they're not about a game.

Not taking any of this personally, just to let you know. I'm just amazed that I asked one (actually two) question and you can't even answer me unless someone can prove you wrong. <smirks>

[Edited on 8/29/2003 by CrystalTears]

[imported_Kranar]

Fair or not, this is way off-topic. I shouldn't have to be fair after waiting over and over for one simple reason, one simple explanation since you guys seem convinced that it isn't cheating.

I've countered the argument that cheating is breaking the rules about 4 times now, I've countered that cheating means being dishonest twice, I've made a very solid argument that getting a computer to play a game for you is cheating, and you want to discuss macros?

Macros are shortcuts, big deal. Go through my post, every one of my posts, and look for a SINGLE instance where I state that shortcuts mean you're cheating.

Just find me ONE SINGLE instance where I state that if you take a shortcut, you're cheating.

What I said was that when you get a computer to play a game for you, you're cheating. If you want to state that shortcuts are cheating, then that's fine and you can debate that issue with someone else who feels that way. It's certainly not me.

At this stage I feel that this is such a desperate attempt to skirt the issue that I don't want to fall for it.

[Edited on 8-29-2003 by Kranar]

[CrystalTears]

Forget it Kranar. You win.

[imported_Kranar]

Thank you.

I'm still not going to fall for this derailment into something completely off-topic. You put words into my mouth and want to discuss fairness.

[Deathravin]

These are my scripts. the eScape will probably work with Stormhammer too.

eScape Versions:
http://members.cox.net/lorddeathravin/Scripts/trans.txt
http://members.cox.net/lorddeathravin/Scripts/healme.txt

Wizard Versions:
http://members.cox.net/lorddeathravin/Scripts/trans.cmd
http://members.cox.net/lorddeathravin/Scripts/healme.cmd

-Deathravin

[Back]

Honestly, until someone can give me an honest reason why having a computer playing a game for them isn't cheating in Gemstone, when EVERY OTHER GAME considers it cheating, when ANY game expert will tell you it is, then this whole discussion is redundant.

Talk about irrefutable evidence... Kranar loves this argument. "Me and 99.99% of the world feel this way, so we are right." Its a truckload of crap. Why? Because I know another game where scripting is not considered cheating.

I see the point of considering scripting cheating. Following the logic, driving a car is cheating when you could use your own two legs. Using a spoon is cheating when you could lift the bowl to your mouth. Setting the timer on the VCR is cheating when you were supposed to be there to watch the show you are taping.

What everyone else is saying, Kranar, and understand it is everyone else except you, is that commonly people refer to cheating as breaking the rules. Simple as that. Jump to the front of the line. Get the answers for a test. Palming cards at a poker game. See the difference?

Doing something to get around the rules everyone else has to follow. Scripting in GSIII is not against the rules. Scripting AFK is, and that makes you a cheater. By the way, thats a bannable offense oh champion of policy. Are you trying to convince yourself that every one who uses a script is a cheater to compensate for your blatant disregard for policy? It won't fly.

[CrystalTears]

That's why I asked what definition he was using to base his statement, but since he was dead set on only hearing refuting answers to his argument, he wouldn't. <shrugs>

[imported_Kranar]

<< What everyone else is saying, Kranar, and understand it is everyone else except you, is that commonly people refer to cheating as breaking the rules. >>

So when I swear, I cheat.

Thanks for clarifying.

[imported_Kranar]

<< That's why I asked what definition he was using to base his statement, but since he was dead set on only hearing refuting answers to his argument, he wouldn't. >>

No what you did was put words in my mouth and then try and bring in fairness.

I never said making life easier is cheating, it can be cheating, sometimes. No one cheats to make life difficult, that's for sure.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Kranar
So when I swear, I cheat.

Thanks for clarifying.

Like I said before. A square is a trapezoid, but a trapezoid is not a square.

You can't cheat without breaking the rules, but you can break the rules without cheating.

[imported_Kranar]

Sintik, the definition of cheating was made very clear by Backlash:

"that commonly people refer to cheating as breaking the rules"

So when I break the rules, I cheat.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Kranar
No what you did was put words in my mouth and then try and bring in fairness.


Nope, I sure didn't. I asked you what definition of cheating you were using to base your argument. I don't see how that's me putting words in your mouth. The unfairness I was referring to was I was asking you a question and you wouldn't answer until someone proved you wrong.

[Back]

Originally posted by Kranar
Sintik, the definition of cheating was made very clear by Backlash:

"that commonly people refer to cheating as breaking the rules"

So when I break the rules, I cheat.

If you swear, and get away with it, then yes, it is cheating. A little further down my post I elaborated a little bit to say that cheating is breaking the rules everyone else has to follow, but I can see how far you read through it.

[Deathravin]

Wow... Perhaps we should just agree to disagree here

-Deathravin

[imported_Kranar]

<< If you swear, and get away with it, then yes, it is cheating. >>

Okay so quit saying that everyone agrees with your definition and that it's what everyone is trying to say, because Sintik disagrees with you.

I don't think he or I or anyone considers harassing someone cheating, or hacking someones account cheating, but you clearly do.

[imported_Kranar]

<< The unfairness I was referring to was I was asking you a question and you wouldn't answer until someone proved you wrong. >>

And how is that different from what you're doing?

I asked you and everyone a simple question and you admittedly won't answer it.

[CrystalTears]

Because I wanted your definition for clarification to be able to! Geez!

[imported_Kranar]

Here's my argument then:

When you get your computer to play a game for you, you're cheating.

Discuss.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I hope some of you understand what I'm saying.

Preach on, brutha Stray, for I surely understand you.

HarmNone

[Back]

Originally posted by Kranar
<< If you swear, and get away with it, then yes, it is cheating. >>

Okay so quit saying that everyone agrees with your definition and that it's what everyone is trying to say, because Sintik disagrees with you.

I don't think he or I or anyone considers harassing someone cheating, or hacking someones account cheating, but you clearly do.

Believe what you want if it makes you feel better. I'm bored of this now.

[Scott]

I'm a firm believer in the fact that to cheat, you have to break rules. However all rule breaking isn't cheating. Therefore scripting while at the computer is not cheating in Gemstone. You don't have to agree, but it's a simple as that (to me.) I believe cheating means you have to break a rule.

[Deathravin]

Originally posted by Kranar
Here's my argument then:

When you get your computer to play a game for you, you're cheating.

Discuss.

False. Whenever you are breaking the rules set forth by the game, you are cheating. I can script all day at work if i damn well please, as long as i'm watching the screen and am reactive to GMs

-Deathravin

[imported_Kranar]

Also just for the record...

Since Backlash seems so convinced that everyone agrees with him and that he understands what "common" people understand, who else here agrees that the following constitutes cheating:

- harassing other players
- hacking into someones account to delete their characters
- advertising for other games publically on the amunet
- going extremely OOC like discussing the superbowl in TSC

[Scott]

Kranar, what is your definition of cheating?

[Edited on 8-30-2003 by Gemstone101]

[imported_Kranar]

<< Believe what you want if it makes you feel better. I'm bored of this now. >>

Yet another copout.

Goodbye.

[Betheny]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Have multiple accounts is pretty much cheating. The cheat creates money for Simu though, hence why there is a lack of policy or official stance regarding it.

I think that all depends on if you use one of your accounts to 'help' your other account. There are those that MA that simply do it because they play late at night and have nothing better to do than to run two characters, totally independent of one another. Like me.

Edited to nuke a typo.

[Edited on 8-30-2003 by Maimara]

[CrystalTears]

See but it seems you want to lump all scripting as cheating, and that's not so.

Using a script to hunt for you while you file your nails and wash dishes is cheating and goes with your argument that the game is playing for you. Using a script to heal down your character or sing a story isn't since it's just a piece of your playing that you're making easier to do. If you made a script to sing a song, go hunt, respond to people talking, then yes it's the computer playing for you and is cheating.

Like I have been trying to say for a while now, scripting in and of itself is not cheating. How you use it and to what extent is what determines it.

[Deathravin]

Originally posted by Kranar
- harassing other players
- hacking into someones account to delete their characters
- advertising for other games publically on the amunet
- going extremely OOC like discussing the superbowl in TSC

I dont see what OOC has to do with cheating, or advertising other games (also OOC). Getting somebody's password is either Hacking, Cracking, or Dishonesty (give me your P/W and i'll make you level 160, etc). and harrassment is just harrassing. All these things are breaking Policy, but they aren't Cheating

-Deathravin

[CrystalTears]

Like Sintik said, cheating equals breaking the rules, but breaking the rules doesn't equal cheating.

[imported_Kranar]

<< Kranar, what is your definition of cheating? >>

Cheating is quite an abstract concept. It involves gaining something that you did not earn. The two undefined terms in this argument are, what does it mean to gain, and what does it mean to earn. Those are subjective and depend on the medium, are we talking about a business? Are we talking about a game? About the law?

To answer that, you have to look at the context with which you're accusing someone of cheating. If it's a game, then what you gain must be something tangible, something that the mechanics of the game can technically reward you with. Furthermore, you must earn what you gain, and in order to define earning, you must once again ask yourself, what do the mechanics of the game require you to do in order to GAIN the reward.

Now scripting is cheating because you don't EARN what you GAIN. You allow a computer to do the earning for you, while you personally gain the bonuses.

[imported_Kranar]

<< All these things are breaking Policy, but they aren't Cheating >>

Good, I agree.

I just wanted to know since Backlash seemed to understand what "common" people understand. It looks like he was wrong afterall.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Like Sintik said, cheating equals breaking the rules, but breaking the rules doesn't equal cheating.

I think part of the problem here could be alleviated by further defining the word "cheating". One can cheat a game by breaking the rules. Can one cheat oneself? If so, how?

HarmNone

[imported_Kranar]

Finally, cheating is against the rules in many games, but not all games.

Some games allow you to gain what you don't earn. They let you use things like "cheat codes", the game specifically defines them as cheat codes and you can open up any gaming magazine, they're usually filled with cheat codes. What they do is instead of earning the reward that the game mechanics intended you to earn, you're given the reward simply with the push of a button.

In some games that's actually a good thing, because you get bored or frustrated with it, and you just want to sit back and play God for a bit. In other games like the Olympics, it's against the rules to cheat in any way shape or form. Therefore they investigate the many ways that atheletes try and cheat the system, like the caffein example I provided. If they conclude it's cheating, then they ban it, if they conclude it isn't, then it's acceptable.

[imported_Kranar]

The following definition comes from a Humanities Course text book and reflects my definition but presents it in a much more consise manner:

"The definition of cheating is "taking a benefit without paying the cost," from both perspectives, but applying this definition depends on what is a cost and what is a benefit. For an employer, cheating is when an employee gets a pension but has not worked for at least a decade. For an employee, cheating is when an employee has worked for a decade but does not get a pension."

[Betheny]

Empaths are a profession that are uniquely required to work together. The only other profession that comes close is clerics.

The problem is, the mechanics of Gemstone 3 do not really support empaths 'working together'.

IMHO, an empath 'cheating' would be using something to gain an unfair advantage over those he or she would normally have to compete with or work with. Such as using a script.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Maimara
Empaths are a profession that are uniquely required to work together. The only other profession that comes close is clerics.

The problem is, the mechanics of Gemstone 3 do not really support empaths 'working together'.

IMHO, an empath 'cheating' would be using something to gain an unfair advantage over those he or she would normally have to compete with or work with. Such as using a script.

That is how I see it, as well, Maimara. It is hard for me to imagine what it must be like to be an empath in today's Elanthia. The verb "shudder" comes to mind. ;)

HarmNone

[Back]

Originally posted by Kranar
<< All these things are breaking Policy, but they aren't Cheating >>

Good, I agree.

I just wanted to know since Backlash seemed to understand what "common" people understand. It looks like he was wrong afterall.

Kranar, certain things I agree with you on, other things I don't. You are a smart guy, but arguing with you is like aruging with a brick wall. Thats why I got bored. There is no point to my making any more arguments because you simply will not move on this subject.

You are doing the same working backward from an incorrect conclusion thing again and avoided just about my entire orignial post.

So not everyone here believes that swearing is cheating. I believe if you break policy and get away with it, you are cheating. But you can't tell me that there aren't a lot of people here saying scripting while not AFK is cheating.

Break down the term however you want. It seems Websters isn't enough. The simplest answer is usually the correct answer. Isn't that some mathmatitician axiom?

[imported_Kranar]

And to further support my definition, my university even comes with a specific rule that outlaws any form of academic cheating.

Now if cheating was simply breaking the rules, then why would a university of all places have a rule that specifically bans any form of cheating?

Surely then, it must be because cheating is something that is independent of the rules, and is solely dependent on the relationship between what one gains, and how one gains it.

[HarmNone]

My view of cheating corresponds to Kranar's view. It is interesting to find that others do not see it thus. It explains why I found myself adrift in the game, I suppose.

HarmNone

[Scott]

<<<Now if cheating was simply breaking the rules, then why would a university of all places have a rule that specifically bans any form of cheating? >>>

Isn't cheating breaking the rules? I mean they can't say that something is cheating unless it's breaking a rule right? If the university bans cheating, then when you cheat, you are breaking a rule right?

[imported_Kranar]

<< The simplest answer is usually the correct answer. Isn't that some mathmatitician axiom? >>

That is known as Ockham's Razor, it is a scientific strategy that states that if two solutions are equivalent, but one is simpler than another, than one should accept the easier of the two solutions.

However! If two solutions are not equivalent, then one must accept the solution that is most accurate.

The definition of cheating presented by you, by myself, by Sintik et. al are not equivalent, therefore Ockham's Razor does not apply.

[imported_Kranar]

<< If the university bans cheating, then when you cheat, you are breaking a rule right? >>

Correct! The university has outlawed any form of cheating. But they have seperated cheating from breaking the rules. Therefore if they didn't outlaw cheating, then cheating would be acceptable.

Of course that university's reputation would go down the drain! There are universities infact that are like this, believe it or not.

[Scott]

How I love arguing with Kranar. He's one of the few that won't bail out or say "you are stupid" if something doesn't go his way. He just goes and finds something else to point out. It's annoying because I don't and never will agree with him, but I'm glad some people will stick by what they say without flipping out and insulting the other person.

[Back]

Ockham's Razor

Cool. At least I learned something from all this. I tend to apply this strategy to everything I do. Heh, I'm simple.

[imported_Kranar]

I know I frustrate people when I debate, and I too get frustrated at times myself. I have always said I don't blame anyone on these boards who dislike me, heck who even hate me for my style, it's a burden I have come to accept.

[Scott]

<<<Correct! The university has outlawed any form of cheating. But they have seperated cheating from breaking the rules. Therefore if they didn't outlaw cheating, then cheating would be acceptable. >>>

See, the way I see it, if they didn't outlaw cheating, then "cheating" isn't cheating. If they say looking off someones paper on a exam is fine, then I don't think it's cheating. This is just my view though, which obviously doesn't apply to you. I had a Psych professor who would before the exam, assign you with another student in the class to take the same exam. You could answer eachothers questions and everything. I normally ended up with a higher grade on the exam due to the fact that my partner knew some of the answers that I didn't and vice versa. That wasn't cheating, and I really didn't earn the grade I got.....

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Gemstone101
How I love arguing with Kranar. He's one of the few that won't bail out or say "you are stupid" if something doesn't go his way. He just goes and finds something else to point out. It's annoying because I don't and never will agree with him, but I'm glad some people will stick by what they say without flipping out and insulting the other person.

Heh. I do believe that therein lies the difference between argument and debate. Kranar debates. Debate is exhilarating. Arguing is exhausting.

HarmNone

[Edited on 8-30-2003 by HarmNone]

[Betheny]

You make me feel stupid, Kranar.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Kranar
I know I frustrate people when I debate, and I too get frustrated at times myself. I have always said I don't blame anyone on these boards who dislike me, heck who even hate me for my style, it's a burden I have come to accept.

You do not frustrate me. I enjoy a good debate, and appreciate one who does it well. :)

HarmNone

[CrystalTears]

Hey I haven't insulted him at all. I got frustrated with it but I don't think less of him or his opinions. I just don't react well with someone when in a debate and I ask a question and they refuse to answer because I haven't answered them first, and that's what I felt was happening here.

I still stand by what I said. Not all scripting is cheating, but some scripting is, and it all depends on how it's being used to gain advantage in a game. As long as you're responsive to the game when needed, I don't see how that's a computer playing for you. It's when you leave the script running to do all your work that it becomes a problem. And lumping all scripting into one big "cheater" category doesn't fly with me. But that's just me and I accept that others don't see it that way.

[Betheny]

How about -- If your scripting is either against policy (AFK scripting) or disruptive (you're screwing with someone else's gameplay) then it's wrong. eh?

[imported_Kranar]

<< If your scripting is either against policy (AFK scripting) or disruptive (you're screwing with someone else's gameplay) then it's wrong. eh? >>

That's a moral issue. Cheating a human being I think is immoral, because an actual human being put in effort and work, and you basically just leeched or exploited them of it.

But cheating a non-living computer system so that you will gain a higher score, is that also immoral?

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Kranar
But cheating a non-living computer system so that you will gain a higher score, is that also immoral?

I'm not sure I can answer that for anyone other than myself. I cheat at solitaire. Why? Because I get annoyed at how I ALWAYS lose. Would I cheat at solitaire in a tournament or something of that nature? Oh hell no.

If I'm playing a game where something is outlawed, something that would work to my benefit, I would not use it.

But if I found something that didn't interfere with others, wasn't against 'the rules' in Gemstone, and helped me gain something (experience, I guess) -- I don't think I'd use it, either. I take into consideration that a lot of things in Gemstone 3 are buggy/not properly done, and I do my best to understand that just because I find a flaw in the system, I don't have to exploit it.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Kranar
But cheating a non-living computer system so that you will gain a higher score, is that also immoral?

I would think think this to be cheating oneself. If oneself is a human being, and I assume we all are, then...yes.

HarmNone

[imported_Kranar]

<< That wasn't cheating, and I really didn't earn the grade I got..... >>

Assume you're part of a group of 5 members, and you have one month to complete a robot. Now to get to the point quickly, I will exagerate this scenario... let's say only YOU worked on the robot day and night, you worked your butt off and those other 4 sons of guns didn't put in any effort at all.

Let's say ALL 5 members of the team, you included won first prize...

You wouldn't feel... cheated?

[Back]

But cheating a non-living computer system so that you will gain a higher score, is that also immoral?

Sure, if there were other people playing.

PS.

de·bate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-bt)
v. de·bat·ed, de·bat·ing, de·bates
v. intr.
1. To consider something; deliberate.
2. To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
3. To engage in a formal discussion or argument. See Synonyms at discuss.
4. Obsolete. To fight or quarrel.

[Edited to get my smart ass remark in the correct tense.]

[Edited on 8-30-2003 by Backlash]

[imported_Kranar]

I like that 4th one.

[Back]

I like that 4th one.

Yeah, because this isn't a fight. At least, I've never thought it was.

[Serein]

Oh I know you can. The problem is script healers can pull 10 wounds off you in like 2 seconds because there is no RT. Putting in a 3 second RT blocks script healers from pulling every wound in like 2 seconds....... This would allow everyone to pull some wounds instead of that one person getting them all.

It always disgusted me to see several healers trying to pull wounds off the same person. It looks like a bunch of hungry rats or *vultures* diving at their prey. If you are considering the RP aspect, which obviously is not the topic, I understand, but humor me here.
I think it makes far more sense for a wounded person to ask a particular healer to see to their wounds, and for that healer to care for the person completely. Otherwise it's kind of like a hospital, and I envision a bunch of eager interns who jump and tackle the poor patients before they make it to the nurse's station to request their practitioner.

That said, I am not against scripting itself, but scripting to avoid the tasks of advancing, and scripting to avoid having to interact and PLAY the game is pathetic. Where is the joy in that? I do however understand scripting monotonous tasks, so long as the reason for doing so is that you might spend your precious manual key strokes interacting and role-playing with those around you... specifically those you are healing.

My three guilders.
~Serein of the Sea

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Serein

Oh I know you can. The problem is script healers can pull 10 wounds off you in like 2 seconds because there is no RT. Putting in a 3 second RT blocks script healers from pulling every wound in like 2 seconds....... This would allow everyone to pull some wounds instead of that one person getting them all.

It always disgusted me to see several healers trying to pull wounds off the same person. It looks like a bunch of hungry rats or *vultures* diving at their prey. If you are considering the RP aspect, which obviously is not the topic, I understand, but humor me here.
I think it makes far more sense for a wounded person to ask a particular healer to see to their wounds, and for that healer to care for the person completely. Otherwise it's kind of like a hospital, and I envision a bunch of eager interns who jump and tackle the poor patients before they make it to the nurse's station to request their practitioner.

That said, I am not against scripting itself, but scripting to avoid the tasks of advancing, and scripting to avoid having to interact and PLAY the game is pathetic. Where is the joy in that? I do however understand scripting monotonous tasks, so long as the reason for doing so is that you might spend your precious manual key strokes interacting and role-playing with those around you... specifically those you are healing.

My three guilders.
~Serein of the Sea


I know a lot of people don't agree with how my healer heals..but, the way I view it is thus.

If I can type .heal <person>, then continue talking, RP'ing, and such with them, I see no harm in the script. It allows me to :

A. RP with them while healing, so they get a sense that I, as a healer, actually cares (or don't care, based on the RP..)

B. It helps me because there is NOTHING I hate more then looking at someone, seeing 6 different wounds..then between my healing (by hand) and the screen scroll, I get 3 or 4 wounds done, and forget where the rest are. Argg..it drives me nuts.

C. Using the script allows me to free myself up to check over my RP, make sure my tone is right, this is a person worthy of RP'ing with, etc etc.

-Adredrin

I have a lot of scripts, most of which I built myself. I use them, I have been known to abuse them..but not near as often as I used to.

[HarmNone]

>>If I can type .heal <person>, then continue talking, RP'ing, and such with them, I see no harm in the script.<<

I have known empaths who managed all that without using scripts. I am sure many of them are gone now, but I remember.

HarmNone

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by HarmNone
>>If I can type .heal <person>, then continue talking, RP'ing, and such with them, I see no harm in the script.<<

I have known empaths who managed all that without using scripts. I am sure many of them are gone now, but I remember.

HarmNone

This may be true for some of them, but I tend to have a typing problem (I would guess it stems from never really having an offical "typing" class) and I typo a LOT..so I like to have a spair secend or 3 to proof read.

Of course, these can all be viewed as excuses by others and I'm just a "looser who scripts an easy part of GS". If thats what people want to say, then so be it ::shrug::

-Adredrin

[Mistomeer]

I'll just throw in my two cents worth for the hell of it. First, I've found that most people who hate scripters and do the most complaining about them are the people that can't write scripts at an advanced level. I mean, I'll see someone script hunting and mess with them for the hell of it (ie Start a conversation with them), but I don't have any qualms about scripting as a whole in GS. Secondly, if you're scripting with the wizard front end, anything you're doing in a script (other than movement) can be and is being accomplished elsewhere by someone using macros and they're doing it faster. It's just faster to input macros into the Wizard than it is for the Wizard to call a script. I think Simu has brought alot of the scripting problems upon themselves by offering extra type-ahead lines for premie gifts. Best way to take advantage of those type-ahead lines is in scripts. But somehow I would still get caught in offensive when calling a script like:

Prep 302
waitfor You
put stance offensive
put cast at %1
put stance guarded
pause 3

Scripts just aren't that fast in the Wizard FE.

[Artha]

Usually, if you whisper something like 'GameMaster' or 'GameHost' or '[Scripter's Limbo]' (might be [Script hunter's Limbo]), or even '[Send - ', they'll quit.