TWC ~ what next

[Tumbadoo]

This may not be the best build but it is working out so far. What would folks recommend dumping training points into at this point.

Two Weapon Combat..................| 202 102
Armor Use..........................| 190 90
Combat Maneuvers...................| 230 130
Edged Weapons......................| 302 202
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 130 35
Physical Fitness...................| 201 101
Dodging............................| 239 139
Arcane Symbols.....................| 50 10
Magic Item Use.....................| 50 10
Harness Power......................| 225 125
Mental Mana Control................| 105 25
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 175 75
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 70 15
Perception.........................| 150 50
Climbing...........................| 130 35
Swimming...........................| 150 50

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 30

Spell Lists
Bard...............................| 40

[Jeril]

I'd say twc, moc, cmans, pf, dodge, spells, perception, then armor. That should keep you busy a while.

[Tumbadoo]

Why moc? I can pretty much run Tonis all the time swinging at 1 sec. I was thinking cman first then twc. I figured cman would boost both hands AS. I know there is probably a real good reason to go twc Jeril, educate me.

[Whirlin]

TWC will provide off-hand parry DS gains, as well as 'failed to find an opening' suppression.


I'm a bit surprised at the lack of Mental Lore Telepathy. It will provide +1 AS for 0/24, then 0/32, 0/40, 0/48. Since this will still be 1x in Mental Lore. That's just from 1007, it also has overall spellsong duration extension, and +1 second per rank for the first 20 ranks to tonis.

Lets compared to CMAN:
CMAN, you're already 1x, so you're looking at 16/8 per rank, so 2x in that for 1 AS will cost 32/16. Even if mental starved, it's worth picking up the 3 ranks in Telepathy before CMAN for AS maximization...

But wait... there's more.
You're only at 70 spell ranks. 0/17 per rank of spells, so, 0/34 for 1 AS from MnE. Technically more expensive than CMAN, but also gaining +1 DS per 2 ranks.

MoC is trained for FUN... Mechanically, its usually possible to avoid situations where you're not being hilariously gangbanged by ithzir, or there are adequate disabling spells available. But hitting 55 ranks in MoC, and unlocking the 3 focused MStrikes, is just a fun ability to have. With 2 focused MStrikes, there's no real RT gains compared to two individual strikes (However, realizing the hits early is a benefit), but with 3... it's a pure gain.



So... what?

I recommend 7 ranks in Telepathy, then your choice between CMAN and spells. If you're generally tired of hunting, and want to have a little more fun, then pick up some MoC

[Tumbadoo]

I'm wondering now if dropping cman and dodge to 1x and investing those points into mne to 75 might serve me better. I think this would yield an additional +10 to my current DS and an additional +15 (or more) ds as well as upping my CS by 15 or more. Thoughts?

[Whirlin]

Urgh... I can't find my old post... I had done some analysis on Bard TP versus DS, and the best way to gain more DS per TP was by training in Dodging.

However, that doesn't take into account the AS and CS gains from MnE.

It all matters your goals! Per the previous post, your AS gains are slightly faster with CMAN versus MnE, but CMAN won't increase your DS, and MnE doesn't give you any fun new maneuvers.

Additionally, you may have taken it a bit far! 1x'ing in MnE will end at 72 ranks... Those last 3 ranks are at double TP costs, and likely wouldn't be the most efficient way to spend the points.

Also, a very important part in this discussion, which hasn't been addressed, is point conversion! If you're currently MTP starved, spells are gonna be relatively more costly than CMAN. Under ideal circumstances, semis shouldn't need to do drastic point conversion on the longer-term (albeit may be necessary while leveling due to maximizing short term gains). Definitely not like the MTP to PTP or PTP to MTP we see with Squares and Pures.

[Jeril]

TWC - Whirlin kind of said it but used some odd phasing so I'll make it more clear, at 101, you'll fail to find an opening against like level targets about 85% of the time. At 151 ranks you won't fail against like level targets and at 202 ranks you won't fail against targets five levels over you.

If you are using two weapons and swinging them both in just 1 second, you should see how long it takes you to hit 3 and 4 creatures. If you are getting 3-4 seconds with those strikes, and tonis, it would be worth it. If it takes longer you may want to think about getting enhancives if it will drop your RT down. There may also be times where front loading all that damage would be better.

Combat maneuvers - I figured you don't really need the extra AS from this but more maneuver points to play with and better defense against them.

PF - SMR defense and stamina, may not use much now but if you take up mstriking being able to get off more in a row could be handy

Dodge - Put this before spells just because the DS is more likely going to keep you alive then benefits from spells but that would also depend on what gets you killed the most, could very easily switch this with spells

Spells - more AS/DS/TD, if you need TD more then you do the DS, do this before dodge

Perception - Helps against SMRs

Armor - Slight gains to avoiding SMRs and DS from lessened action penalty