TWC ambush roundtime

[Rhovan]

Anyone able to help me out with why my roundtime has gone up?

I just started using dual handaxes for ambushing. My understanding is that the swing time would be
5 + 5 - 2 + 3 - 5 = 6
(handaxe base) + (handaxe base) - (half handaxe base rounded down) + (ambush modifier) - (my agi/dex modifier) = 6

However, I'm getting a roundtime of 7 seconds on ambushing. However, when I activate surge of strength, I do drop down to 6 seconds. I am in no way encumbered, so the strength shouldn't matter there. How else does strength factor in?

Thanks for any insights.

[m444w]

Offhand weapon weight is my best guess. Strength is a magical thing at certain twc thresholds.

[Rhovan]

My offhand is the same weight as my main, so I know it's not that penalty (swapped hands to be sure). Are you saying there is also a flat penalty for weapons of a certain weight in your offhand? Any idea where I can get more specifics on that? If I'm fairly close to the cutoff, an enhancive should sort me out. I'm currently running with a strength bonus of 33 without surge and the offhand weapon weight is 5 lbs.

[m444w]

I never have mapped out the tiers, maybe see if someone else did on Krakiipedia.

It has to do with rt base and weapon weight.

Try using an offhand weapon that's the same base, but 1 lb lighter, just for shits and grins.

[Rhovan]

Sadly, I've been able to find very little concrete information on this. Krakiipedia doesn't mention anything at all about weapon weight having an affect. Nilandia mentions getting a bonus to lower roundtime for offhand weapons or the same weight or less (I highly doubt this is the case, but just a lack of penalty). Some older threads mention a +1 second to roundtime for heavy weapons (5+ roundtime weapons, but not actual weight), but I didn't see this reference in any modern discussions.

So, I grabbed another handaxe that weighs 3 lbs (2 less than originally) and my ambushing roundtime dropped to 6. I don't have a 4 lb handaxe available to check it with. However, I did toss another enhancive on to get my strength bonus to +35 and I did see the drop as well, which will pretty much solve my problem.

[Rhovan]

Would there be much interest for people to try to find out more about this?

I would like to know whether there is just a single roundtime penalty based on weapon weight and strength or if there are tiers much like the agi/dex bonuses. Does this strength penalty apply only to TWC or does it affect THW or using a shield? Is it an added penalty purely because of ambush?

If there is interest, I'd take any information people have and try to figure it out. I doubt it needs to be said, but if anyone already knows all the specifics, please don't be shy.

[Sorcasaurus]

Even if the off-hand weapon is lighter than the main-hand weapon there are still potential penalties depending on the off-hand weapon's weight and your strength bonus. For STR bonus < 5, off-hand weapons weighing > 2lbs cause a 1 second penalty. For STR bonus > 5 there is a 1 second penalty for weapons more than 3 lbs. At some point beyond that, for sure at STR bonus > 20 but possibly earlier, you can use an off-hand weapon weighing up to 4lbs without incurring a penalty. Continuing to increase weapon weight beyond these thresholds also eventually causes a 2 second penalty.
from Lordsmo: http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?80266-TWC-Mstrike-Calculations&highlight=offhand+rt

believe this was confirmed with testing. The above example is specific to the person who started the thread, but it confirms weight does play a role in it and would explain the Str changing your RT. I don't think anyone has mapped out the thresholds for every str bonus.

Also, more data from this thread: http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?63754-Two-Weapon-Combat/page4&highlight=offhand+rt

Also, from Krakii:

There are also penalties applied to your roundtime for having a weapon in your off hand heavier than your strength bonus would normally permit...

If you create a new characters to test with you could likely find most of the thresholds pretty quick.

[Rhovan]

Thanks, that info from Lordsmo was just what I was looking for. I have to admit I was confused having read so many times that the offhand weapon had to be equal or lighter than the main. It's great to see it is clearly just a matter of strength bonus. It looks like the tiers for negating the penalty are 5, 20, and 35 for 3, 4, and 5 lbs respectively.

Anyone able to update Krakiipedia with this info and perhaps add on a heavy weapon penalty into the formula for TWC?