Confused about DS

[Prosperanna]

All right, I obviously have no clue how DS is calculated, because I cannot get mine to improve.

At level 8, I had:

- a reinforced shield
- a mithril talon sword
- light leather
- 5 ranks of armor
- 10 ranks of shield use

and my DS in advanced stance was 51.


Now, at level 10, I have:
- a mithril round shield
- a mithril talon sword
- double leather
- 6 ranks of armor
- 12 ranks of shield use

and my DS in advanced stance is...still 51.

The hell? What am I doing wrong? I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I don't think I should be level 10, and still get bitten by rats because my DS is so damn low.

[Kitsun]

Need to see your training to guage anything.

Dodging, shield training and spells probably affect it the most. It is also really sensitive to any kind of encumberance.

[Axhinde]

Armor Use doesnt raise your DS. And only 2 ranks in Shield Use probably wont make a noticeable difference.

The only thing that you posted that I see might make a difference is


- a mithril round shield

Other than that we'd need to see your training.

[Bobmuhthol]

Post stats and skills, I'll try to see what the problem is.

I knew making that DS calculator was a good idea.

[Jonty]

You DS may be hindered by your lack of armor training and the armor you're wearing. You need 8 ranks to fully train off the hidnerance of double leather, not 6.

[Bobmuhthol]

You shouldn't gain any extra encumbrance from wearing double with 6 ranks. Maneuver penalty, yeah, but your encumbrance isn't affected by that.

[MPSorc]

Bob, you should start your own website with all those numbers and knowlege of various things in your head and on your computer. I have yet to find any sites with any good knowledge of GS4, mostly all i can find is GS3 stuff.

[Bobmuhthol]

I can find answers to questions. I'm not smart enough to recall everything I know in a helpful manner.

Take this as you will:
http://forum.gsplayers.com/images/upload/Bobmuhthol/447.jpg
http://forum.gsplayers.com/images/upload/Bobmuhthol/448.jpg

[Bobmuhthol]

Hmm.. looking at that, it makes me wonder how a large shield gives less DS. I need to check that.

[Bobmuhthol]

Shield:
PRINT "Enter your shield ranks."
INPUT ""; SRANKS#
PRINT "Enter your STRength bonus."
INPUT ""; SSTRBON#
PRINT "Enter your DEXterity bonus."
INPUT ""; SDEXBON#
PRINT "Your base value is "; INT((SRANKS# + INT(SSTRBON# / 4) + INT(SDEXBON# / 4)) / 1.5)
SBASE# = INT((SRANKS# + INT(SSTRBON# / 4) + INT(SDEXBON# / 4)) / 1.5)
PRINT "1. Small Shield"
PRINT "2. Medium Shield"
PRINT "3. Large Shield"
PRINT "4. Tower/Wall Shield"
PRINT "Please enter your shield size."
INPUT ""; H
IF H = 1 THEN I = -.15
IF H = 2 THEN I = 0
IF H = 3 THEN I = .15
IF H = 4 THEN I = .3

IF I = -.15 OR I = 0 THEN
PRINT "Your DS bonus in offensive stance is"; INT(SBASE# * .5 * (1 + I)) + 20; "plus your shield enchant."
PRINT "Your DS bonus in advanced stance is"; INT(SBASE# * .6 * (1 + I)) + 20; "plus your shield enchant."
PRINT "Your DS bonus in forward stance is"; INT(SBASE# * .7 * (1 + I)) + 20; "plus your shield enchant."
PRINT "Your DS bonus in neutral stance is"; INT(SBASE# * .8 * (1 + I)) + 20; "plus your shield enchant."
PRINT "Your DS bonus in guarded stance is"; INT(SBASE# * .9 * (1 + I)) + 20; "plus your shield enchant."
PRINT "Your DS bonus in defensive stance is"; INT(SBASE# * 1 * (1 + I)) + 20; "plus your shield enchant."
GOTO continueshield
ELSEIF I = .15 THEN
PRINT "Your DS bonus in offensive stance is"; INT(SBASE# * .5 * (1 + I)) + 15; "plus your shield enchant."
PRINT "Your DS bonus in advanced stance is"; INT(SBASE# * .6 * (1 + I)) + 15; "plus your shield enchant."
PRINT "Your DS bonus in forward stance is"; INT(SBASE# * .7 * (1 + I)) + 15; "plus your shield enchant."
PRINT "Your DS bonus in neutral stance is"; INT(SBASE# * .8 * (1 + I)) + 15; "plus your shield enchant."
PRINT "Your DS bonus in guarded stance is"; INT(SBASE# * .9 * (1 + I)) + 15; "plus your shield enchant."
PRINT "Your DS bonus in defensive stance is"; INT(SBASE# * 1 * (1 + I)) + 15; "plus your shield enchant."
GOTO continueshield
ELSEIF I = .3 THEN
PRINT "Your DS bonus in offensive stance is"; INT(SBASE# * .5 * (1 + I)) + 10; "plus your shield enchant."
PRINT "Your DS bonus in advanced stance is"; INT(SBASE# * .6 * (1 + I)) + 10; "plus your shield enchant."
PRINT "Your DS bonus in forward stance is"; INT(SBASE# * .7 * (1 + I)) + 10; "plus your shield enchant."
PRINT "Your DS bonus in neutral stance is"; INT(SBASE# * .8 * (1 + I)) + 10; "plus your shield enchant."
PRINT "Your DS bonus in guarded stance is"; INT(SBASE# * .9 * (1 + I)) + 10; "plus your shield enchant."
PRINT "Your DS bonus in defensive stance is"; INT(SBASE# * 1 * (1 + I)) + 10; "plus your shield enchant."
GOTO continueshield
END IF

continueshield:
PRINT "What would you like to do now?"
PRINT "1. End"
PRINT "2. Weapon DS"
PRINT "3. Dodge DS"
INPUT ""; O#
IF O# = 1 THEN GOTO GOODBYE
IF O# = 2 THEN GOTO Weapon
IF O# = 3 THEN GOTO Dodge



So if I'm right, the shield you were using was medium, and the shield you're using now is large. Large shields have an inherent -5 DS, making them not as useful at lower levels and shouldn't be used unless you have more shield than dodging.

[Prosperanna]

Here's my training:

Prosperanna (at level 10), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 30 6
Shield Use.........................| 58 12
Edged Weapons......................| 58 12
Physical Fitness...................| 90 20
Arcane Symbols.....................| 54 11
Magic Item Use.....................| 54 11
Harness Power......................| 96 22
Spirit Mana Control................| 54 11
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 62 13
Mental Lore - Transformation.......| 25 5
Survival...........................| 25 5
Perception.........................| 50 10
Climbing...........................| 50 10
First Aid..........................| 99 23

Spell Lists
Major Spirit.......................| 5

Spell Lists
Empath.............................| 9

Thank you for all the help guys. :)

[Bobmuhthol]

And stats?

[Jonty]

Bob, mind posting the rest of the code from that program? I was able to run the program through QBasic. How did you get it to run as an executable?

[Kitsun]

Originally posted by Prosperanna
Here's my training:

(Insert Training Here)

Thank you for all the help guys. :)

You should probably hold back on the Lores and snag some more spells. 103 gives ya a nice +10.

Being a pure class you can't train in dodge so most of your defensive power comes right from spells.

What town are you in? Need help getting any gear above mithril?

[Bobmuhthol]

Here's the source code in .txt format, as well as the executable. You should be able to compile the source as a stand-alone program from QBASIC.

Your lack of armor ranks is, for one thing, fucking up your DS. 1 extra rank to go from light to doubles is going to cripple your DS..

[Edited on 9-7-2004 by Stanley Burrell]

[Bobmuhthol]

Can you explain that, Stanley? I'm not going to put much thought into it, but it makes no sense to me.

All I know is that when my rogue switched from a +0 light leather to a +20 lbp, the DS bonus I got was merely +11.

Then Tsoran told me to go get more armor ranks, and I did.

Shortly after, DS started to normalize.

And I don't know the fucking formula. Ask someone with triple digit IQ.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Here's the source code in .txt format, as well as the executable. You should be able to compile the source as a stand-alone program from QBASIC.

Thanks. How do I compile it. I don't see that option.

[Bobmuhthol]

0x leather breastplate: 67
0x chain mail: 61

16 ranks. Not very crippling.

[imported_Kranar]

<< Can you explain that, Stanley? I'm not going to put much thought into it, but it makes no sense to me. >>

Not having fully trained off your armor decreases your dodging DS.

[imported_Kranar]

<< You should be able to compile the source as a stand-alone program from QBASIC. >>

QBASIC and Quick BASIC are two different things.

You can compile it in Quick BASIC, but not in QBASIC.

[Bobmuhthol]

How to create a program:

(You might need the same version I have. I think it's 4.5.)

[Kitsun]

Originally posted by Kranar
<< Can you explain that, Stanley? I'm not going to put much thought into it, but it makes no sense to me. >>

Not having fully trained off your armor decreases your dodging DS.

If you scroll up to her SKILL info, she doesn't have any ranks in dodge to have decreased.

[StrayRogue]

You still have a natural Dodge DS and a natural chance to Evade, which is based on Dodge skill and other factors.

[Bobmuhthol]

Even without dodge ranks, your dodge skill is based on your agility, intuition, spell mods, armor, and shield.

[imported_Kranar]

<< If you scroll up to her SKILL info, she doesn't have any ranks in dodge to have decreased. >>

In GSIV there are 3 forms of DS that are all added up to form your effective DS.

Dodging DS, Shield DS, Parry DS.

Dodging DS isn't simply based on dodging ranks, it is also affected by shield size and encumberance.

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Kranar
<< You should be able to compile the source as a stand-alone program from QBASIC. >>

QBASIC and Quick BASIC are two different things.

You can compile it in Quick BASIC, but not in QBASIC.

I have QBASIC.


Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
(You might need the same version I have. I think it's 4.5.)

Yeah, in either case, mine is very old. It's from the DOS days, version 1.1.

[Bobmuhthol]

http://www.uv.tietgen.dk/staff/mlha/Download/DOS/microsoft/qbasic45.zip

[Jonty]

Yeah, I already DLed it, thanks.