Latrinsorm
10-14-2013, 07:20 PM
It turns out to be pretty obvious when you run down all the teams, but it's a fun exercise anyway and I encourage the folks at home to give it a try. Also obviously the point is to restrict yourself to what the player did for each team, so while Michael Jordan is the greatest player to wear a Washington uniform, he does not have the greatest Washington career. Here are the teams, and I personally am using only the NBA portion of each franchise:
Atlanta Hawks
Boston Celtics
Brooklyn Nets
Charlotte Bobcats
Chicago Bulls
Cleveland Cavaliers
Dallas Mavericks
Denver Nuggets
Detroit Pistons
Golden State Warriors
Houston Rockets
Indiana Pacers
Los Angeles Clippers
Los Angeles Lakers
Memphis Grizzlies
Miami Heat
Milwaukee Bucks
Minnesota Timberwolves
New Orleans Pelicans
New York Knicks
Oklahoma City Thunder
Orlando Magic
Philadelphia 76ers
Phoenix Suns
Portland Trail Blazers
Sacramento Kings
San Antonio Spurs
Toronto Raptors
Utah Jazz
Washington Wizards
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Here are the ones I think can pass by voice vote:
Atlanta Hawks - Bob Pettit - Hawks' only championship, only MVP (2-time and inaugural), took the Hawks to 4 Finals in 5 years, it's been 42 years since.
Brooklyn Nets - Jason Kidd - only Finals (2), but was only with the team 6.5 years. No MVPs but a very close 2nd in 2002 behind Tim Duncan. The other choices are Buck Williams and Richard Jefferson so it may as well be Kidd.
Charlotte Bobcats - Gerald Wallace - only playoffs, only All-Star (no Bobcat has received a single MVP vote), 75% more Win Shares than Emeka Okafor... it's slim pickings.
Chicago Bulls - B. J. Armstrong, greatest point guard to ever live.
Cleveland Cavaliers - LeBron James - only Finals, only MVP (2-time), 5 straight playoffs tied with the Fratello/Price/Daugherty Cavs for longest Cavs streak, 6 All-Stars 1 more than Daugherty
Dallas Mavericks - Dirk Nowitzki - only championship, only MVP, only Finals (twice), his 11 All-Stars is as many as every Mav combined from 1984 to 2000, leads the team in field goal attempts, three point attempts, and free throw attempts.
Houston Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon - only championship (twice), one of two to win MVP (Moses won it twice as a Rocket), only to win FMVP (twice), career leader in points, rebounds, steals, blocks, and is third in assists, played 17 years to Moses' 6.
Indiana Pacers - Reggie Miller - surprisingly weak field here: only Finals, no MVPs, has 2.99 times as many WS as next closest Dale Davis.
Los Angeles Clippers - Bob McAdoo - 3 straight playoff appearances (still the Clipper record), only MVP, was only there 4.5 years and still no one else is even close.
Milwaukee Bucks - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - only ring, both Finals, all 3 MVPs. Was only with the team 6 seasons but even Sidney Moncrief was only there 10.
Minnesota Timberwolves - Kevin Garnett - only MVP, all 8 playoff appearances, more All-Stars (10) than every other Wolf combined (Kevin Love 2, Sam Cassell, Wally Szczerbiak, Tom Gugliotta), leader in points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks, 3.38 times as many WS as Wally.
New Orleans Pelicans - Chris Paul - he's a fine player, but mostly the Hornets stink. 4 All-Stars, next closest is Glen Rice with 3. Was there 6 years, Alonzo only 3, LJ only 5.
Orlando Magic - Dwight Howard - I know, but look. Dwight lost one Finals, Shaq lost one Finals. Neither won MVP. Dwight won 3 DPOY, Shaq won 0. Dwight was there 8 years, Shaq only 4. Shaq is 3rd in WS, way behind Dwight and a little behind Nick Anderson (who was there 10 years so...). It's really not that close.
Sacramento Kings - Oscar Robertson - only MVP, and was OSCAR ROBERTSON. Arnie Risen was the guy on their only championship team, but only played 6 years and wasn't half as good as Oscar.
San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan - surprisingly only 5.5 WS ahead of David Robinson in 2 more years, but 2 rings, an MVP, and 3 FMVPs ahead so.
Toronto Raptors - Chris Bosh - tied with Vince Carter with 5 All-Stars, the Raptors stink, 0.5 more years with Toronto than Carter, way ahead in WS, isn't universally reviled by Torontonians.
Utah Jazz - Karl Malone - only Finals (2), only MVPs (2), just ahead of Stockton in WS, 14 to 10 in All-Stars. I personally think Stockton was the engine in that train, but public acclaim is what greatness means.
Washington Wizards - Wes Unseld - only ring, all 4 Finals, only MVP, only FMVP.
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That's 18, the others are pretty close (although as we see from the first two examples this can mean very different things):
Boston Celtics - Bill Russell - Larry Bird's resume would put him as the inarguable greatest for 16 of the 18 teams above, and he could make a case against Duncan. Maybe if he had had a full career we could talk about it, but 5 MVPs to 3, Russell who could barely shoot has more WS, 11 rings to 3. I think Bird's the better player, but his career doesn't stack up.
Denver Nuggets - Alex English - talk about stinking, 38 years and 0 Finals. The Blade got 7 All-Stars, Carmelo got 4 (in 8 years!!). Dan Issel leads a lot of stats but has a whopping 1 All-Star nod.
Detroit Pistons - Isiah Thomas - pretty much has to be a Bad Boy, although there were 2 Finals built around Larry Foust in the 50s. But which? No MVPs, split FMVP between Isiah and Dumars, Laimbeer leads in WS. They all played about 13 years, but Bill and Joe had 4 and 6 All-Stars while Isiah had 12, so I went with Isiah.
Golden State Warriors - Wilt Chamberlain - 1 ring each with Arizin and Barry, another Finals with Barry, only 1 Finals with Wilt, but Wilt was the only MVP and did such violence to the record books that it's hard to take the others seriously. Over his first 5 full seasons he averaged 42 points and 25 rebounds. Forget it.
Los Angeles Lakers - Magic Johnson - probably the closest one on the list. Kareem's 3 MVPs is tied with Magic, but only 1 FMVP to Magic's 3. Jerry West was in 9 friggin' Finals and is #2 in WS but oddly never won MVP. I leaned to Magic because Kareem had 2 more years but was only slightly ahead in WS. #1 in WS, of course, is Kobe.
Memphis Grizzlies - Marc Gasol - Each Gasol has 3 playoffs, but Marc's actually went somewhere, he's got a DPOY, and he's not too far behind in WS. Z-Bo has 2 All-Stars to 1 for each Gasol, but I feel like most of the recent success goes to Marc.
Miami Heat - LeBron James - 2 of 3 rings, 3 of 4 Finals, only MVP (twice)... but Wade is obviously way ahead in career stats, has an FMVP of his own, and has all 3 rings. It's hard to say a guy who's been there 3 years has had the greatest career, but his dominance over those 3 years has just been so ridiculous.
New York Knicks - Willis Reed - only 2 rings, only MVP, only 2 FMVPs. Frazier has a great argument, Ewing and Gallatin have okay arguments, but Reed's the one with the hardware. Obviously this does not count broadcasting.
Oklahoma City Thunder - Gary Payton - 1 Finals for Durant, 1 for Payton, but 2 for Dennis Johnson with one win and one FMVP inclines me towards DJ, but he was only there 4 years while Payton was there 12.5. On the other other hand, Payton had Kemp while Johnson was stuck with Jack Sikma. It's a close one, and Durant might make it moot before all's said and done.
Philadelphia 76ers - Julius Erving - 4 Finals with 1 ring. Wilt also has 1 ring and 3 MVPs to Dr. J's 1, but was only there 3.5 years and his stats had cooled down from "ludicrous" to merely "incredible". The main competition is actually Dolph Schayes who had 1 ring in 3 Finals in the 50s and leads by 40% in WS. Also, Moses Malone won MVP and FMVP in Erving's ring year, which isn't a great look.
Phoenix Suns - Steve Nash - Charles Barkley has 1 MVP and came the closest anyone ever has to beating the Bulls in the Finals, but was only there 4 years and isn't top 10 in WS. Nash has 2 MVPs but no Finals and is only 3rd in WS, trailing Shawn Marion and Kevin Johnson, and was only there 8 years (seems like a lot more).
Portland Trail Blazers - Clyde Drexler - Drexler played 11.5 years and 2 Finals, Walton only 4 years and not even top 10 WS but 1 ring, 1 MVP, 1 FMVP. I don't think it's that close.
Atlanta Hawks
Boston Celtics
Brooklyn Nets
Charlotte Bobcats
Chicago Bulls
Cleveland Cavaliers
Dallas Mavericks
Denver Nuggets
Detroit Pistons
Golden State Warriors
Houston Rockets
Indiana Pacers
Los Angeles Clippers
Los Angeles Lakers
Memphis Grizzlies
Miami Heat
Milwaukee Bucks
Minnesota Timberwolves
New Orleans Pelicans
New York Knicks
Oklahoma City Thunder
Orlando Magic
Philadelphia 76ers
Phoenix Suns
Portland Trail Blazers
Sacramento Kings
San Antonio Spurs
Toronto Raptors
Utah Jazz
Washington Wizards
.
.
.
Here are the ones I think can pass by voice vote:
Atlanta Hawks - Bob Pettit - Hawks' only championship, only MVP (2-time and inaugural), took the Hawks to 4 Finals in 5 years, it's been 42 years since.
Brooklyn Nets - Jason Kidd - only Finals (2), but was only with the team 6.5 years. No MVPs but a very close 2nd in 2002 behind Tim Duncan. The other choices are Buck Williams and Richard Jefferson so it may as well be Kidd.
Charlotte Bobcats - Gerald Wallace - only playoffs, only All-Star (no Bobcat has received a single MVP vote), 75% more Win Shares than Emeka Okafor... it's slim pickings.
Chicago Bulls - B. J. Armstrong, greatest point guard to ever live.
Cleveland Cavaliers - LeBron James - only Finals, only MVP (2-time), 5 straight playoffs tied with the Fratello/Price/Daugherty Cavs for longest Cavs streak, 6 All-Stars 1 more than Daugherty
Dallas Mavericks - Dirk Nowitzki - only championship, only MVP, only Finals (twice), his 11 All-Stars is as many as every Mav combined from 1984 to 2000, leads the team in field goal attempts, three point attempts, and free throw attempts.
Houston Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon - only championship (twice), one of two to win MVP (Moses won it twice as a Rocket), only to win FMVP (twice), career leader in points, rebounds, steals, blocks, and is third in assists, played 17 years to Moses' 6.
Indiana Pacers - Reggie Miller - surprisingly weak field here: only Finals, no MVPs, has 2.99 times as many WS as next closest Dale Davis.
Los Angeles Clippers - Bob McAdoo - 3 straight playoff appearances (still the Clipper record), only MVP, was only there 4.5 years and still no one else is even close.
Milwaukee Bucks - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - only ring, both Finals, all 3 MVPs. Was only with the team 6 seasons but even Sidney Moncrief was only there 10.
Minnesota Timberwolves - Kevin Garnett - only MVP, all 8 playoff appearances, more All-Stars (10) than every other Wolf combined (Kevin Love 2, Sam Cassell, Wally Szczerbiak, Tom Gugliotta), leader in points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks, 3.38 times as many WS as Wally.
New Orleans Pelicans - Chris Paul - he's a fine player, but mostly the Hornets stink. 4 All-Stars, next closest is Glen Rice with 3. Was there 6 years, Alonzo only 3, LJ only 5.
Orlando Magic - Dwight Howard - I know, but look. Dwight lost one Finals, Shaq lost one Finals. Neither won MVP. Dwight won 3 DPOY, Shaq won 0. Dwight was there 8 years, Shaq only 4. Shaq is 3rd in WS, way behind Dwight and a little behind Nick Anderson (who was there 10 years so...). It's really not that close.
Sacramento Kings - Oscar Robertson - only MVP, and was OSCAR ROBERTSON. Arnie Risen was the guy on their only championship team, but only played 6 years and wasn't half as good as Oscar.
San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan - surprisingly only 5.5 WS ahead of David Robinson in 2 more years, but 2 rings, an MVP, and 3 FMVPs ahead so.
Toronto Raptors - Chris Bosh - tied with Vince Carter with 5 All-Stars, the Raptors stink, 0.5 more years with Toronto than Carter, way ahead in WS, isn't universally reviled by Torontonians.
Utah Jazz - Karl Malone - only Finals (2), only MVPs (2), just ahead of Stockton in WS, 14 to 10 in All-Stars. I personally think Stockton was the engine in that train, but public acclaim is what greatness means.
Washington Wizards - Wes Unseld - only ring, all 4 Finals, only MVP, only FMVP.
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That's 18, the others are pretty close (although as we see from the first two examples this can mean very different things):
Boston Celtics - Bill Russell - Larry Bird's resume would put him as the inarguable greatest for 16 of the 18 teams above, and he could make a case against Duncan. Maybe if he had had a full career we could talk about it, but 5 MVPs to 3, Russell who could barely shoot has more WS, 11 rings to 3. I think Bird's the better player, but his career doesn't stack up.
Denver Nuggets - Alex English - talk about stinking, 38 years and 0 Finals. The Blade got 7 All-Stars, Carmelo got 4 (in 8 years!!). Dan Issel leads a lot of stats but has a whopping 1 All-Star nod.
Detroit Pistons - Isiah Thomas - pretty much has to be a Bad Boy, although there were 2 Finals built around Larry Foust in the 50s. But which? No MVPs, split FMVP between Isiah and Dumars, Laimbeer leads in WS. They all played about 13 years, but Bill and Joe had 4 and 6 All-Stars while Isiah had 12, so I went with Isiah.
Golden State Warriors - Wilt Chamberlain - 1 ring each with Arizin and Barry, another Finals with Barry, only 1 Finals with Wilt, but Wilt was the only MVP and did such violence to the record books that it's hard to take the others seriously. Over his first 5 full seasons he averaged 42 points and 25 rebounds. Forget it.
Los Angeles Lakers - Magic Johnson - probably the closest one on the list. Kareem's 3 MVPs is tied with Magic, but only 1 FMVP to Magic's 3. Jerry West was in 9 friggin' Finals and is #2 in WS but oddly never won MVP. I leaned to Magic because Kareem had 2 more years but was only slightly ahead in WS. #1 in WS, of course, is Kobe.
Memphis Grizzlies - Marc Gasol - Each Gasol has 3 playoffs, but Marc's actually went somewhere, he's got a DPOY, and he's not too far behind in WS. Z-Bo has 2 All-Stars to 1 for each Gasol, but I feel like most of the recent success goes to Marc.
Miami Heat - LeBron James - 2 of 3 rings, 3 of 4 Finals, only MVP (twice)... but Wade is obviously way ahead in career stats, has an FMVP of his own, and has all 3 rings. It's hard to say a guy who's been there 3 years has had the greatest career, but his dominance over those 3 years has just been so ridiculous.
New York Knicks - Willis Reed - only 2 rings, only MVP, only 2 FMVPs. Frazier has a great argument, Ewing and Gallatin have okay arguments, but Reed's the one with the hardware. Obviously this does not count broadcasting.
Oklahoma City Thunder - Gary Payton - 1 Finals for Durant, 1 for Payton, but 2 for Dennis Johnson with one win and one FMVP inclines me towards DJ, but he was only there 4 years while Payton was there 12.5. On the other other hand, Payton had Kemp while Johnson was stuck with Jack Sikma. It's a close one, and Durant might make it moot before all's said and done.
Philadelphia 76ers - Julius Erving - 4 Finals with 1 ring. Wilt also has 1 ring and 3 MVPs to Dr. J's 1, but was only there 3.5 years and his stats had cooled down from "ludicrous" to merely "incredible". The main competition is actually Dolph Schayes who had 1 ring in 3 Finals in the 50s and leads by 40% in WS. Also, Moses Malone won MVP and FMVP in Erving's ring year, which isn't a great look.
Phoenix Suns - Steve Nash - Charles Barkley has 1 MVP and came the closest anyone ever has to beating the Bulls in the Finals, but was only there 4 years and isn't top 10 in WS. Nash has 2 MVPs but no Finals and is only 3rd in WS, trailing Shawn Marion and Kevin Johnson, and was only there 8 years (seems like a lot more).
Portland Trail Blazers - Clyde Drexler - Drexler played 11.5 years and 2 Finals, Walton only 4 years and not even top 10 WS but 1 ring, 1 MVP, 1 FMVP. I don't think it's that close.