McCain on Fox: Defunding Obamacare is not achievable, Republicans shutdown government

[4a6c1]

He also says "Cruz does not represent us". Listen to the reporter sighing and arguing with him at the end about Obamacare. As if she has more DC insider info than McCain. Funny stuff. And thank you Captain!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dQfV-0R4ZY

Tom Kludt – October 11, 2013, 11:14 AM EDT192034



Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) channeled his inner-maverick Friday during an appearance on Fox News Channel, repeatedly reminding the conservative network that the government shutdown was brought about by the quixotic effort to halt the Affordable Care Act.

When anchor Martha MacCallum asked him about the White House's handling of the suspension of death benefits to military families, McCain said that while the administration deserves blame it was a GOP-induced shutdown that caused the problem in the first place.


"Let's have a little straight talk, Martha," McCain said. "[The administration] wouldn't have had the opportunity to handle it that way if we had not shut down the government on a fool's errand that we were not going to accomplish. The whole premise of shutting down the government was the repeal of Obamacare. I fought against Obamacare harder than any of the people who wanted to shut down the government."

McCain's appearance on Fox came shortly after Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX), the leader of the movement to defund the health care law, spoke at the Values Voter Summit. MacCallum asked McCain how he felt about Cruz "representing" Republicans at a meeting scheduled for Friday at the White House.

"First of all, Martha, please, he's not representing us there," McCain said, adding that he thinks it's "unconscionable" that President Obama hasn't negotiated with Republicans.

The interview closed with McCain rattling off a number of proposals that are "achievable" for Republicans.

"Defunding Obamacare is not one of them," he said emphatically.

"Well, we'll see," MacCallum said, prompting sarcastic laughter from the senator.

"I guarantee it," McCain said. "Not only will you see, I guarantee it."


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/mccain-to-fox-news-no-the-shutdown-is-the-gop-s-fault-video

[Tgo01]

Of course Republicans shut down the government, Boehner admitted as much about a week ago.

[Gelston]

Old man vs the young man.

[Shaps]

Good to see he stands on principle. If he fought so hard to stop it as he says, then he should be a leader among the party now during the negotiations, trying to improve a law if you can't get rid of it.

I have a ton of respect for Sen McCains service to this country, but his comments reflect the thought process of someone who has been in Washington to long. If you can't/won't/don't stand on principle then it may be time to hang 'em up.

[tyrant-201]

Good to see he stands on principal. If he fought so hard to stop it as he says, then he should be a leader among the party now during the negotiations, trying to improve a law if you can't get rid of it.

I have a ton of respect for Sen McCains service to this country, but his comments reflect the thought process of someone who has been in Washington to long. If you can't/won't/don't stand on principle then it may be time to hang 'em up.

Negotiations are with the House. McCain is a Senator. Ultimately he doesn't have a vote, why would he be one to negotiate?

[Shaps]

Negotiations are with the House. McCain is a Senator. Ultimately he doesn't have a vote, why would he be one to negotiate?

Really? He actually does have a vote, as the bill passes through the Senate on the way to the President.

He is a long standing Republican in Congress. If he is so knowledgable, and as he claims, "fought harder than anyone" to stop the ACA, then he should be leading/making suggestions/helping improve a bill if you can't get rid of it. That would be expecting someone to actually do something though.

[Gelston]

He actually has a bigger vote than anyone in the House. The House is Republican led though, and the Senate is Democrat. In that light you could say he doesn't have a vote, since his vote matters less. It'd be like saying someone in Louisiana voting for Obama has a vote compared to someone in New York.

[Archigeek]

Passed. Signed into law. Upheld by Supreme Court. Time to stop being whining bitches and move on. There are plenty of other issues they can actually make some headway on. I am pretty sure that's what he's getting at.

[Gelston]

Passed. Signed into law. Upheld by Supreme Court. Time to stop being whining bitches and move on. There are plenty of other issues they can actually make some headway on. I am pretty sure that's what he's getting at.

It is the Constitutional right of Congress to refuse to fund bills. Stop being a whiny bitch that they are refusing.

[Willington]

Let it all burn down!Both sides care about themselves/issues more then us.Let the Mad Max era begin.

[cwolff]

Let it all burn down!Both sides care about themselves/issues more then us.Let the Mad Max era begin.

Lord Humungus: Be still my dog of war. I understand your pain. We've all lost someone we love. But we do it my way! We do it my way. Fear is our ally. The gasoline will be ours. Then you shall have your revenge.

[Warriorbird]

It is the Constitutional right of Congress to refuse to fund bills. Stop being a whiny bitch that they are refusing.

Let's just shut down the government every time a bill we don't like gets passed.

[Candor]

Let's just shut down the government every time a bill we don't like gets passed.

...and refuse to raise the debt ceiling. Why use half measures?

[Wrathbringer]

Let's just shut down the government every time a bill we like doesn't get funded.

Fixed.

[Parkbandit]

Fund Obamacare to the levels that Obama wants them funded to. Follow the letter of the new law. Let the Democrats and the handful of Republicans OWN Obamacare. Let them take full credit for it.

Then, sit back and watch it collapse under it's own weight.

Highlight everyone's vote in political commercials.

Remind the people what you've been saying about this law from day 1.

Enjoy another historic mid term election victory.

[Archigeek]

Fund Obamacare to the levels that Obama wants them funded to. Follow the letter of the new law. Let the Democrats and the handful of Republicans OWN Obamacare. Let them take full credit for it.

Then, sit back and watch it collapse under it's own weight.

Highlight everyone's vote in political commercials.

Remind the people what you've been saying about this law from day 1.

Enjoy another historic mid term election victory.

This is a much better plan. It's not going to get defunded, so why make yourselves look like sore losers? Rise above it and if you're right you're right, to much political gain. If your wrong you've been wrong graciously and you are admired for your principles. This kicking and screaming just makes you look like petulant cry babies. Get over it and move on.

[Latrinsorm]

It is the Constitutional right of Congress to refuse to fund bills. Stop being a whiny bitch that they are refusing.Is it, though? The only relevant portion I can find is "the Congress shall have Power To ... provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States" from A1S8, is that what you had in mind?

I think a more interesting portion is that the President "shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed" in A2S3. We all agree that we have a Constitutional (as declared by the Supreme Court) law (as passed by the Congress), and to be executed it requires funding, therefore the President must insist on that funding... no?

[4a6c1]

Fund Obamacare to the levels that Obama wants them funded to. Follow the letter of the new law. Let the Democrats and the handful of Republicans OWN Obamacare. Let them take full credit for it.

Then, sit back and watch it collapse under it's own weight.

Highlight everyone's vote in political commercials.

Remind the people what you've been saying about this law from day 1.

Enjoy another historic mid term election victory.

If we're enjoying things I thought legislation to give healthcare to the working poor and then the historic presidential re-election that followed was pretty good, myself. (Also unsuccessful Republican attempts to change voter rules mid-election to discriminate against said working poor)

I wonder what voters will do when they remember all that about last election, combined with the current Republican temper tantrum?

[Tgo01]

I wonder what voters will do when they remember all that about last election, combined with the current Republican temper tantrum?

It will have little to no impact.

[4a6c1]

Disagree. Most voters are centrists and react badly to partisan instability.

[Tgo01]

Disagree. Most voters are centrists and react badly to partisan instability.

Haha no.

What is it something like 90% of incumbents get reelected even though Conress has had less than a 15% approval rating for years now.

[4a6c1]

Perhaps. But the presidential election will be all about this stuff. Rehashed and then some. And with people like Cruz setting themselves up as radical party heads....man it's just going to get so dirty. People aren't going to vote for a radical. They like middle of the road or someone who sets themselves up to look middle of the road.

[Jarvan]

This is a much better plan. It's not going to get defunded, so why make yourselves look like sore losers? Rise above it and if you're right you're right, to much political gain. If your wrong you've been wrong graciously and you are admired for your principles. This kicking and screaming just makes you look like petulant cry babies. Get over it and move on.

You do know sometimes you have to try to do what you know is right tho, right? They just did it poorly. They should have tried once, then moved the fuck on. The problem though is, how in a sense our government can be fucking stupid with it's rules. House passes bill, Senate refuses to even look at it, or Reid strips amendments he doesn't like. Then sends it back and complains cause they won't do what he wants. How the fuck is that reasonable?

Correct way they should have handled it.

Passed CR with Defunding of ACA.

Passed CR with Delay of Individual mandate for 1 year.

Passed CR with spending cuts.

Passed CR for 2 months with panel/commission to deal with deficit spending and spending cuts.

At that point, if the Dems and the Pres say "fuck you" the republicans can throw up their arms and say, "we tried, they won't work with us at all". (btw.. this is kinda what happened in a sense at this point, tho the last two were offers, not bills)

[Jarvan]

Is it, though? The only relevant portion I can find is "the Congress shall have Power To ... provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States" from A1S8, is that what you had in mind?

I think a more interesting portion is that the President "shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed" in A2S3. We all agree that we have a Constitutional (as declared by the Supreme Court) law (as passed by the Congress), and to be executed it requires funding, therefore the President must insist on that funding... no?

Well, if that is the case, I guess Obama should be impeached for not fulfilling his Constitutional duties. Since he declared by fiat parts of Obamacare either won't apply, or are delayed. Also, he has failed to uphold numerous laws. (Drug laws in CO and WA for example) Not to mention failing to enforce immigration laws in some cities/states.

Congress holds the purse strings. http://history.house.gov/Institution/Origins-Development/Power-of-the-Purse/

So yeah, The House does get to decide what to fund, and what not to fund. Of course, it has to pass the Senate and President, but technically, Congress could really just refuse to ever fund Obamacare. It's bad politics really, and bad procedure, but it is technically a valid option.

[cwolff]

You do know sometimes you have to try to do what you know is right tho, right? They just did it poorly. They should have tried once, then moved the fuck on. The problem though is, how in a sense our government can be fucking stupid with it's rules. House passes bill, Senate refuses to even look at it, or Reid strips amendments he doesn't like. Then sends it back and complains cause they won't do what he wants. How the fuck is that reasonable?

Correct way they should have handled it.

Passed CR with Defunding of ACA.

Passed CR with Delay of Individual mandate for 1 year.

Passed CR with spending cuts.

Passed CR for 2 months with panel/commission to deal with deficit spending and spending cuts.

At that point, if the Dems and the Pres say "fuck you" the republicans can throw up their arms and say, "we tried, they won't work with us at all". (btw.. this is kinda what happened in a sense at this point, tho the last two were offers, not bills)

Why do republicans care about the individual mandate? It's only a $95.00 fine and the people being fined are irresponsible for not having health coverage anyway.

[Tgo01]

Why do republicans care about the individual mandate? It's only a $95.00 fine and the people being fined are irresponsible for not having health coverage anyway.

<insert forehead smack here>

[cwolff]

<insert forehead smack here>

I know why you are against it TG. You want a single payer system, obviously. My question is why is the GOP so against the individual mandate? They drug test welfare recipients, bitch about the uninsured and cut SNAP money. Why is their opinion of this so out of line with the rest of their proposals?

[Tgo01]

I know why you are against it TG. You want a single payer system, obviously. My question is why is the GOP so against the individual mandate? They drug test welfare recipients, bitch about the uninsured and cut SNAP money. Why is their opinion of this so out of line with the rest of their proposals?

My forehead smack was more about your notion that everyone opting to just pay the fine is being irresponsible instead of the very real possibility that they just can't afford the "affordable" Obamacare option.

But here, Jon Stewart makes some good points about your question.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thM4CnrzIYQ

I also like her answer to his question about companies moving workers to 30 hours or less to avoid Obamacare. "If you ignore anecdotal folks and just focus on what the economists are saying the economists are saying that's bull shit."

Next time someone tells me they were bumped down to less than 30 hours I'm going to tell them they are just an "anecdotal folk."

[4a6c1]

She's not wrong, she's just an asshole.

I didn't like her and I was frusterated watching her. It was almost as if she was being intentionally evasive. She over complicated the answers to his questions and in one case didn't even answer them. I've read 5 sentence paragraphs that did better answering his questions than this woman. This is what happens when you let lawyers do PR.

[cwolff]

My forehead smack was more about your notion that everyone opting to just pay the fine is being irresponsible instead of the very real possibility that they just can't afford the "affordable" Obamacare option.

I also like her answer to his question about companies moving workers to 30 hours or less to avoid Obamacare. "If you ignore anecdotal folks and just focus on what the economists are saying the economists are saying that's bull shit."

Next time someone tells me they were bumped down to less than 30 hours I'm going to tell them they are just an "anecdotal folk."

I hear what you are saying and agree to an extent. This is the reason that the some on the left poll as anti-ACA.

[Tgo01]

She's not wrong

Yes she is. Businesses aren't cutting employees down to less than 30 hours to avoid Obamacare? That is bullshit, plain and simple. You can Google it right now and find some examples of just this sort of thing.

People pay more for their cell phone bills or cable bills than they do for a plan on the exchanges? Again total bullshit.

I will agree with you though that she's an asshole.

[Jarvan]

Why do republicans care about the individual mandate? It's only a $95.00 fine and the people being fined are irresponsible for not having health coverage anyway.

The individual mandate is stupid because it says a person MUST under penalty of law, buy a product that they may not want.

Example.

I have a friend that pays for concierge medical care. He loves his DR and has been going to him for 20 years. His DR decided to stop taking all insurance due to the insane practices and forms needed to file. So my friend pays a flat amount a year for any basic medical services, this includes a number of things an ER would do, as he has an MRI and x-ray machine and does a number of lab tests in his office. Sure, he can't do major surgery, but that's understandable.

Under Obamacare, my friend will be required to pay a fine, and his DR.

http://kff.org/infographic/the-requirement-to-buy-coverage-under-the-affordable-care-act/

That explains the "fine" fairly well. It's 95$ or 1% of his income (he is single). Since he tells me he makes 80k a year, he would be Required to pay 800 in fines in 2014. In 2015 he would have to pay 1600, and 2016 and onward, 2k in fines.
The fine caps at the cost of a bronze plan, which means technically Romney if he didn't buy coverage and paid for everything out of his Super Deep pockets, would STILL have to pay for a bronze plan. What sense does that make? "Oh you pay for all your bills on your own cause you are rich? Nice, you still got to pay for the cheapo plan anyway"

Also, once again, the cheap plan does NOTHING to make healthcare affordable for poor or middle class people. They have to pay for it, THEN they have to pay to use it. It's a feel good measure, and talking point, that is it. "Hey look, I made it so every American can have health insurance" Well, every American COULD have health insurance before this really. Granted, the people getting major subsidies will get it cheaper then before, but the people that had it under their jobs and no don't will pay a lot more.

ACA is just a third Ponzi scheme. To pay for healthcare for the super poor and the sick, they tax the shit out of the healthy. Another point, why in the hell should ~I~ have to pay extra because some fucktard thought it would be cool to smoke 2 packs of cigs a day for 40 years? That's like someone eating a Heart Attack Burger 3 times a day for 2 years, needing a triple bypass, then sending the bill to the city and say here, pay this. Would that really make any sense to you at all?

[Latrinsorm]

The individual mandate is stupid because it says a person MUST under penalty of law, buy a product that they may not want.Car insurance, seat belts, roads, schools, the armed forces. All things you may rather not spend your money on, but for your good and the good of us all you must.
Also, once again, the cheap plan does NOTHING to make healthcare affordable for poor or middle class people. They have to pay for it, THEN they have to pay to use it.I'm not sure you know how insurance works.
ACA is just a third Ponzi scheme. To pay for healthcare for the super poor and the sick, they tax the shit out of the healthy.I am increasingly sure you don't know how insurance works.
Another point, why in the hell should ~I~ have to pay extra because some fucktard thought it would be cool to smoke 2 packs of cigs a day for 40 years? That's like someone eating a Heart Attack Burger 3 times a day for 2 years, needing a triple bypass, then sending the bill to the city and say here, pay this. Would that really make any sense to you at all?Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends.

You know who said that? That's right, Professor Charles Xavier. They don't give out 4 PhDs and an MD for nothing, you know.

[Archigeek]

You know who said that? That's right, Professor Charles Xavier. They don't give out 4 PhDs and an MD for nothing, you know.

Wait, who? Cannot tell if sarcasm, was not posted in sarcasm font...

[Jarvan]

Wait, who? Cannot tell if sarcasm, was not posted in sarcasm font...

90% of everything he posts is sarcasm, the rest is super sarcasm.

[cwolff]

Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends.

You know who said that? That's right, Professor Charles Xavier. They don't give out 4 PhDs and an MD for nothing, you know.

Wasn't that Gandalf?

[Thondalar]

Wasn't that Gandalf?

No, it's Latrin's usual pseudophilosophical rambling that he reverts to when he doesn't have a legitimate response to something.

[Latrinsorm]

No, it's Latrin's usual pseudophilosophical rambling that he reverts to when he doesn't have a legitimate response to something.Also; yes, that was Gandalf. And if we can't trust our (WHITE!!??) elders and betters (known to be bettors), I don't even know what's going on. What's going on? Tell me what's going on.

But if I may for digress for the briefest of moments into rambling some might call... pseudophilosophical... how is it illegitimate to wonder just what it means to deserve? In a society so unbelievably rich and sedentary as ours, how ridiculous is it to think about survival of the fittest? Rather ridiculous, I'd say! All praise and honor be to Our Founders, they devised a hierarchy of rights as follows: life, then liberty, then the pursuit of happiness. They could have specified "all men who deserve it are endowed by their watcher-maker", but they said only all men. A literal interpretation (the only correct one, I'd say!!) demands that we have to take your happy dollars to provide someone else's life dollars.

Or then again, what does it even mean to legitimately respond? What would a legitimate disagreement look like to you? What syntax, what suite of words?

[4a6c1]

90% of everything he posts is sarcasm, the rest is super sarcasm.

This is perfect.

[Gelston]

Why do republicans care about the individual mandate? It's only a $95.00 fine and the people being fined are irresponsible for not having health coverage anyway.

So, you obviously have not read the bill. It is that amount this tax period. Then it goes higher on the next. 3 years from now the penalty is a min of 695. They expect, for bronze coverage, to be 4000-6000 a year. Enjoy that.

[cwolff]

So, you obviously have not read the bill. It is that amount this tax period. Then it goes higher on the next. 3 years from now the penalty is a min of 695. They expect, for bronze coverage, to be 4000-6000 a year. Enjoy that.

That is correct. They are talking about 1 year delay though I didn't explain that clearly in my post.

[Tgo01]

Why did businesses care about a one year delay?

I think a just as valid question is why are Democrats so against a one year delay when they have already given one to businesses? Am I wrong that Republicans are just asking for a one year delay or are they also demanding the exchange be delayed for one year?

If it's the former then what is really the big deal? People can still get "affordable" insurance they just won't be forced to if they don't want insurance.

[cwolff]

Why did businesses care about a one year delay?

I think a just as valid question is why are Democrats so against a one year delay when they have already given one to businesses? Am I wrong that Republicans are just asking for a one year delay or are they also demanding the exchange be delayed for one year?

If it's the former then what is really the big deal? People can still get "affordable" insurance they just won't be forced to if they don't want insurance.

The point of the act is for more people to be insured than less. Typically the waivers went to business that already insures their employees. Also these waivers went out to cover the year between the exchanges being opened and compliance so that businessess wouldn't drop people the year before exchanges were opened.

[Tgo01]

The point of the act is for more people to be insured than less.

So...why did businesses get a one year extension then?

I also think it's pretty telling that Obamacare is so "popular" that people actually have to be forced to participate in it. I thought everyone wanted affordable healthcare?


Typically the waivers went to business that already insures their employees.

So...why did businesses get a one year extension then?


Also these waivers went out to cover the year between the exchanges being opened and compliance so that businessess wouldn't drop people the year before exchanges were opened.

Huh?

[cwolff]

So...why did businesses get a one year extension then?

I also think it's pretty telling that Obamacare is so "popular" that people actually have to be forced to participate in it. I thought everyone wanted affordable healthcare?



So...why did businesses get a one year extension then?



Huh?

It was a compliance issue. The way it was set up there would have been a gap year where people, especially those with shitty insurance from work, would be uninsured. So the waiver gives the companies time to get in compliance, reorganize or whatever without ditching insurance for employees prior to the exchanges being opened.


It's important to know two things about waivers. First, they were designed to allow businesses and insurance carriers time to comply with the law's provisions, not to sidestep them. Second, almost all of the waivers relate to a single provision of the Affordable Care Act and a type of health insurance coverage known as "mini-med" plans.

Mini-med plans are used by both small and large employers (such as McDonald's) for low-income and part-time employees. These health plans have very limited benefits in return for very low monthly premiums. Employees pay $20 to $30 per month in premiums. A mini-med plan's basic benefits might include a prescription drug discount card and coverage for doctor's visits. These plans can include surgical and hospitalization benefits, but they usually include dollar limits on coverage, which can be under $100 per day or about $250,000 for a year.

Over time, the Affordable Care Act law will eliminate low annual benefit caps like those in mini-med plans. The purpose of this provision is to keep people from losing coverage if the cost of medical treatment for a serious illness or accident is higher than the annual benefit cap. In that circumstance, the cost of treatment could become the responsibility of the patient, leading to financial hardship or bankruptcy.

[Tgo01]

So the waiver gives the companies time to get in compliance

Yes. So what's the problem with giving individuals another year to get in compliance?


First, they were designed to allow businesses and insurance carriers time to comply with the law's provisions, not to sidestep them.

Didn't they have like three years?

[cwolff]

Yes. So what's the problem with giving individuals another year to get in compliance?



Didn't they have like three years?

They do not need a waiver. They need to get insured. That's the entire basis for the ACA. That deadline is 12/15/13 for 2014. If they can't, because of technical difficulties that we are seeing, then I imagine they will be granted some sort of waiver from the penalty.

[cwolff]

Yes and part of that basis was for employers to offer "affordable" healthcare to their employees.

You keep trying to make some sort of distinction between the two but there really isn't one there.

Seems to me Obama could have avoided this whole mess if he would have just delayed the entire thing by a year.

I'm not making that distinction. I've been aware for a long time that people who now have to carry more insurance than they do today will be paying more. The first person I heard say that was Obama.

[Gelston]

The point of the act is for more people to be insured than less. Typically the waivers went to business that already insures their employees. Also these waivers went out to cover the year between the exchanges being opened and compliance so that businessess wouldn't drop people the year before exchanges were opened.

Yeah, when I grew up my mother made about 15 a year. We lived in Government Subsidized, but she made too much for it to be free. So yeah, 4-6 grand a year three years from now? You think that is "affordable healthcare"?

[Tgo01]

I'm not making that distinction.

You're not trying to make a distinction between delaying the individual mandate and delaying the employer mandate? That looks like what you've been doing for the past several posts.

[cwolff]

You're not trying to make a distinction between delaying the individual mandate and delaying the employer mandate? That looks like what you've been doing for the past several posts.

Yes that distinction I am making. I thought you were talking about costs for the individuals who may have to pay more now.

[Gelston]

I have sent in three codes from Taco Bell boxes and haven't won. I am pretty pissed.

[cwolff]

Yeah, when I grew up my mother made about 15 a year. We lived in Government Subsidized, but she made too much for it to be free. So yeah, 4-6 grand a year three years from now? You think that is "affordable healthcare"?

It could be the exact same way for some people. That's part of the reason for medicare expansion so they can close that gap. The states who are refusing it are mostly doing it for political reasons (with MS as a possible exception). Beyond that, I don't really know what you're looking for. Do you reasonably think that on a micro level this will be perfect for everyone?

[Tgo01]

It could be the exact same way for some people. That's part of the reason for medicare expansion so they can close that gap.

What exactly was the Medicaid (you did mean Medicaid right?) expansion? As I mentioned in another thread I put in 5000 dollars as my annual salary just to see what kind of tax breaks I would receive and the website said I didn't qualify for Medicaid.

Just found this from healthcare.gov website:


If your state is expanding Medicaid

The health care law provides states with additional federal funding to expand their Medicaid programs to cover adults under 65 who make up to 133% of the federal poverty level. (Because of the way this is calculated, it is effectively 138% of the federal poverty level.) Children (18 and under) are eligible up to that income level or higher in all states.

If your state is expanding Medicaid, you’ll probably qualify if you make up to about $15,800 a year for 1 person ($32,500 for a family of 4). (These are 2013 numbers, and likely to be slightly higher in 2014.) Coverage can start as soon as January 1, 2014.

If you make more than this amount, you may be able to buy a private insurance plan in the Health Insurance Marketplace. You may be eligible for lower costs on monthly premiums and out-of-pocket costs based on your family size and income.

By applying through the new, single Marketplace application, you’ll find out whether you’re eligible for Medicaid or a private insurance plan at the same time.

Well something is going on here then because my state is participating in the Medicaid expansion.

[cwolff]

What exactly was the Medicaid (you did mean Medicaid right?) expansion? As I mentioned in another thread I put in 5000 dollars as my annual salary just to see what kind of tax breaks I would receive and the website said I didn't qualify for Medicaid.

Just found this from healthcare.gov website:



Well something is going on here then because my state is participating in the Medicaid expansion.

I don't know either. I wonder if it's a glitch in the system. At the 5k you entered you should definitely qualify.

[Jarvan]

It could be the exact same way for some people. That's part of the reason for medicare expansion so they can close that gap. The states who are refusing it are mostly doing it for political reasons (with MS as a possible exception). Beyond that, I don't really know what you're looking for. Do you reasonably think that on a micro level this will be perfect for everyone?

You mean Medicaid right? Cause Medicare can't really be expanded. Unless you want to give it to people under 65 and really fuck over our country.

Also Medicaid is a very tricky thing really. It was originally intended for Kids and Pregnant mothers in low income families. Also those with disabilities.


Medicaid was created by the Social Security Amendments of 1965 which added Title XIX to the Social Security Act. Medicaid was created as an entitlement program to help states provide medical coverage for low-income families and other categorically related individuals who meet eligibility requirements. Candidates include the blind, aged, disabled and pregnant women. In essence, Medicaid serves as the nation’s primary source of health insurance coverage for low-income populations.

As of right now, it is still generally that same thing. I have a friend out of work for 14 months. He is 31 and male. Guess what, with Zero income, he doesn't qualify. If he was a woman, he may, pregnant woman, certainly, if he had a kid, he could. Now.. lets look at eligibility for Medicaid. It is determined by the state.


As of January 2013, half of states (26, including DC) cover children in families with incomes up to at least 250% FPL (Figure 1, Table 1). Only four states limit eligibility to children in families with incomes less than 200% FPL (AK, ID, ND, and OK).

http://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/7993-03.pdf

I LOVE this line myself...


One of the primary goals of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) is to reduce the number of uninsured by creating a new continuum of coverage options through Medicaid and new health insurance exchange marketplaces that provides assistance to individuals with family incomes up to 400% of the federal poverty level (FPL).

now.. currently FPL is

http://www.familiesusa.org/resources/tools-for-advocates/guides/federal-poverty-guidelines.html

11,490 for a single person, and say.. 4 people. Wife husband and 2 kids.. 23,550. I would say those amounts would be reasonable to get some assistance for medical care. At least for the kids if the job didn't offer it.

but.. lets look at 250%.. for a family of 4. 58,875. I don't know. But I think that's fairly reasonable. Heck, that's 1 person working a job for 60k a year, and a stay at home parent. Or 2 full time jobs making what, 12.50 an hour? I wouldn't call that poverty. but lets look at what their goal is.. 400%.

94,200$ a year for a family of 4. They want to "provide assistance" to a family that basically makes 100k a year. Isn't that great. They want to give either free, or subsidized healthcare to A mother who is say.. an Engineer, and a Husband who is .. say a Nurse. Yep, that's what I think of when I think of people that can't pay their bills. A couple that brings home 50k each, or someone making 100k.

It's a perversion of the system. it's no longer "poor" people. It's lets give assistance to everyone. News flash. If your family is bringing home 100k a year, you can AFFORD health insurance on your own. Maybe just don't buy that new Jag this year, you know?


As for why the individual mandate should have been delayed? Simple. if the ACA was so Fucking wonderful, people would sign up on their own. The only time you need to FORCE people to do something, is when it SUCK BALLS.

I did the basic calculator thing for what my Mom would pay. Her premium would be 7k a year. And she would still have the 5k Deductible. So a 61 year old woman that never smoked needs to pay 7k if she isn't sick a year, and 12k if she does get sick. Before the insurance really covers anything. Kinda funny when she only makes 35k a year. 1/3rd her salary to "affordable" health insurance. Good thing she works for a hospital, and gets good coverage for practically free.

As for why states refused it...

Let me ask you this. Do YOU personally want to pay for your neighbor Joe's medical bills (Joe is a Lawyer making 100k a year, his wife Sue stays at home and drinks cause she knows Joe is fucking his secretary Jim, their kids Steve is a druggie and Steph is pregnant and dropping out of HS). Or do you think he should maybe have some personal responsibility?

[Jarvan]

I don't know either. I wonder if it's a glitch in the system. At the 5k you entered you should definitely qualify.

No you wouldn't generally. Specially if you are Male.


Also, I apologize about some of my posts. My mind doesn't always work in a straight line. Really annoying.

[cwolff]

No you wouldn't generally. Specially if you are Male.


Also, I apologize about some of my posts. My mind doesn't always work in a straight line. Really annoying.

Your posts are better than listening to Glethad for hours with no RPA's. There's got to be a reason why the 5k application didn't work. The annual income for a 1 person household is 15k and I don't think they eliminate you for medicaid for being male.

Effective January 1, 2014, Medicaid will be expanded to include individuals between the ages of 19 up to 65 (parents, and adults without dependent children) with incomes up to 138% FPL based on modified adjusted gross income.

Creates a new Medicaid group - Newly Eligible Individuals age 19 up to 65 who:
Have income below 138% FPL
Meet citizenship requirements
Are not incarcerated
Are not entitled to Medicare

Medicaid Eligibility, Beginning October 1, 2013*

[Jarvan]

Your posts are better than listening to Glethad for hours with no RPA's. There's got to be a reason why the 5k application didn't work. The annual income for a 1 person household is 15k and I don't think they eliminate you for medicaid for being male.

Effective January 1, 2014, Medicaid will be expanded to include individuals between the ages of 19 up to 65 (parents, and adults without dependent children) with incomes up to 138% FPL based on modified adjusted gross income.

Creates a new Medicaid group - Newly Eligible Individuals age 19 up to 65 who:
Have income below 138% FPL
Meet citizenship requirements
Are not incarcerated
Are not entitled to Medicare

Medicaid Eligibility, Beginning October 1, 2013*

Yeah, thats starting in 2014, because the government is fucking insane. As of right now, they don't qualify. Also, the states that didn't expand it, they don't qualify.

[cwolff]

Yeah, thats starting in 2014, because the government is fucking insane. As of right now, they don't qualify. Also, the states that didn't expand it, they don't qualify.

What do you mean the states don't qualify? There's no qualification. As the law was written the medicaid expansion was mandatory. The Supreme Court overturned that part of the law.

[Jarvan]

What do you mean the states don't qualify? There's no qualification. As the law was written the medicaid expansion was mandatory. The Supreme Court overturned that part of the law.

I mean my Friend don't qualify.

Also, in the states that didn't expand it, My friend don't qualify.

Sorry, forgot the word in, but I still think it was pretty easy to understand.

[cwolff]

I mean my Friend don't qualify.

Also, in the states that didn't expand it, My friend don't qualify.

Sorry, forgot the word in, but I still think it was pretty easy to understand.

Is this your friend who makes 80k?

[Jarvan]

Is this your friend who makes 80k?

Nope the one that is currently without a positive income.

[cwolff]

Nope the one that is currently without a positive income.

Well there has to be more to the story than what he's saying. If the low end limit is 130% of federal poverty rate, he is obviously below that. I wonder what the circumstances of his situation are. It'd be interesting to figure it out exactly.

[Latrinsorm]

As for why the individual mandate should have been delayed? Simple. if the ACA was so Fucking wonderful, people would sign up on their own. The only time you need to FORCE people to do something, is when it SUCK BALLS. How many people enjoy getting inoculations? How many of those people are nevertheless better off for having them? How many make society as a whole better off by having them?
Let me ask you this. Do YOU personally want to pay for your neighbor Joe's medical bills (Joe is a Lawyer making 100k a year, his wife Sue stays at home and drinks cause she knows Joe is fucking his secretary Jim, their kids Steve is a druggie and Steph is pregnant and dropping out of HS). Or do you think he should maybe have some personal responsibility?Until we can create an individual mandate for having responsibility, creating an individual mandate for insurance is the best available option. In the same way, I would rather that people never intentionally harm each other. But since that is not feasible, I support a heavily armed police force... and all the problems that come with it. Hundreds of innocent people are killed by American police every year, but I'm reasonably sure that more harm is prevented by their presence.

We can only live in the real world, and in the real world we never get what we would ideally want. Wouldn't it be suspicious if we could?

[Methais]

The fact that Rojo is backing McCain now just shows how far gone he is these days.


Disagree. Most voters are centrists and react badly to partisan instability.

Of which the democrats are innocent I bet, right?


Perhaps. But the presidential election will be all about this stuff. Rehashed and then some. And with people like Cruz setting themselves up as radical party heads....man it's just going to get so dirty. People aren't going to vote for a radical. They like middle of the road or someone who sets themselves up to look middle of the road.

What exactly makes Cruz a radical in your (NOTE: your. Not WB's) eyes?

Other than that's what the media told you to think.

[Warriorbird]

I don't think Cruz is a radical. I think he's advertising for his campaign.

[Back]

I wouldn't call Cruz a radical. To be radical means to be new and different. What he is though is an extremist.

[Warriorbird]

I wouldn't call Cruz a radical. To be radical means to be new and different. What he is though is an extremist.

Unlike Ron Paul I don't believe he actually believes in any of this.

[4a6c1]

Actually I like Cruz. I've met him and he's a really nice guy, I'll just put that out there. I think he's a patriot and he would do anything if he thought it would be good for the country. But he's extremely far right on the social issues. He's a hardline antagonist against not only abortion but birth control. This puts us on opposite ends of the spectrum. I could never agree with his social politics. Cruz doesn't try to hide the fact that he's a radical so I'm not sure what you're objecting to here Methais.

McCain's a career politician and as such can be a total hypocrite at times. The thing is he's calculated and his advisors are seasoned and excellent at their job. If McCain went public on these issues against Cruz he believes it will benefit him in the long run...I'm thinking presidential candidate endorsement.

[Parkbandit]

Unlike Ron Paul I don't believe he actually believes in any of this.

What makes you believe that? I don't know much about Cruz.. but he seems to be someone who does stand up for his principles, regardless of the outcome or the pressure from inside his own party.

[Archigeek]

I wouldn't call Cruz a radical. To be radical means to be new and different. What he is though is an extremist.

Reactionary would be the opposite of radical, and would better describe a conservative. He's pretty much unelectable as president though. He might possibly win the republican endorsement, but we all know how that goes. If the republicans want to win the presidency they'll nominate someone closer to the center.

[Back]

Reactionary would be the opposite of radical, and would better describe a conservative. He's pretty much unelectable as president though. He might possibly win the republican endorsement, but we all know how that goes. If the republicans want to win the presidency they'll nominate someone closer to the center.

Extremist might be too strong of a word but he is willing to shut down the government to stop the ACA which to me seems extreme. The word has other connotations so reactionary may be a better way of putting it. Yes, the republicans will nominate someone more middle, regardless of the influence of the Tea Party.

[Jarvan]

Well there has to be more to the story than what he's saying. If the low end limit is 130% of federal poverty rate, he is obviously below that. I wonder what the circumstances of his situation are. It'd be interesting to figure it out exactly.

See, I don't think you understand. he is a Man. Aka, he doesn't ever get medicaid unless he has a kid, or is disabled, tho at that point you can generally get SSD and medicare. Originally, the law didn't cover single men. Or generally single women really. It was up tot he states to decide whom to cover. My state doesn't cover men. So the additional info is my state, and him being a man.

[Warriorbird]

What makes you believe that? I don't know much about Cruz.. but he seems to be someone who does stand up for his principles, regardless of the outcome or the pressure from inside his own party.

Gut feeling from hearing them both speak (and not that it matters). He just seems not genuine. Like a Republican John Edwards.

[Vorpos]

Gut feeling from hearing them both speak (and not that it matters). He just seems not genuine. Like a Republican John Edwards.

More like a Republican Obama.

5785

[Thondalar]

More like a Republican Obama.

5785

More like politicians in general. "If my opponent does this, he's un-American and irresponsible! If *I* do it, it's for the good of the people! The people!

[Vorpos]

More like politicians in general. "If my opponent does this, he's un-American and irresponsible! If *I* do it, it's for the good of the people! The people!

Basically. It's a shame so many people have selective guts though.

[4a6c1]

Gut feeling from hearing them both speak (and not that it matters). He just seems not genuine. Like a Republican John Edwards.

He's not good with speeches. He gets uncomfortable and uptight and comes off disingenuous. He does better in a small enclosed space with less than 100. He's genuine but extremely socially conservative and doesn't try to hide it.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Is it, though? The only relevant portion I can find is "the Congress shall have Power To ... provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States" from A1S8, is that what you had in mind?

I think a more interesting portion is that the President "shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed" in A2S3. We all agree that we have a Constitutional (as declared by the Supreme Court) law (as passed by the Congress), and to be executed it requires funding, therefore the President must insist on that funding... no?

So when you read "shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed", and Obama changes the (passed) bill of the ACA to exempt certain parties, delay certain provisions, and does so without any amendment process, is he following whatever A2S3 is?

I'm sure you'll come back with loose interpretation of his actions and how they aren't actually unlawful, so no real need to respond. I'd just note that up until very recently, it wasn't loosely interpreted.

[Parkbandit]

He's not good with speeches. He gets uncomfortable and uptight and comes off disingenuous. He does better in a small enclosed space with less than 100. He's genuine but extremely socially conservative and doesn't try to hide it.

Never met the man, but that's how he comes across to me.

Now, Marco Rubio.. I could see how people would get that about him. I think his principles are determined by the recent polling data. Cruz and Rand Paul.. not so much.

[Jarvan]

Never met the man, but that's how he comes across to me.

Now, Marco Rubio.. I could see how people would get that about him. I think his principles are determined by the recent polling data. Cruz and Rand Paul.. not so much.

I think most of them are like this.

After all, the FIRST thing on a first term President's mind is getting a second Term.

The first thing on a second term president's mind.... how much his speech tour will make him.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Don't forget the book deals.

[Methais]

I wouldn't call Cruz a radical. To be radical means to be new and different. What he is though is an extremist.

Radical: (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/radical?s=t)


- a person who holds or follows strong convictions or extreme principles; extremist.

extremist (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/extremist?s=t&ld=1171)(ɪkˈstriːmɪst)


— n
1. a person who favours or resorts to immoderate, uncompromising, or fanatical methods or behaviour, esp in being politically radical



Way to derp it up.

[Tgo01]

Back thinks a "radical Muslim" is something new and different.

[Methais]

Back thinks

Liar.

[Back]

Certainly a valid semantic argument. When I hear radical I think revolutionary or paradigm shift, both of which could also be considered extreme, but when I hear extremist I think unreasonable lunatic which also could be labelled radical.

[cwolff]

So when you read "shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed", and Obama changes the (passed) bill of the ACA to exempt certain parties, delay certain provisions, and does so without any amendment process, is he following whatever A2S3 is?

I'm sure you'll come back with loose interpretation of his actions and how they aren't actually unlawful, so no real need to respond. I'd just note that up until very recently, it wasn't loosely interpreted.

The legislature makes law, the executive branch enforces it. This applies to EVERYTHING the Federal Gov't regulates.

As much as this may piss you off right now but hope you can appreciate the benefit. The complexities of passing national law are too great to not let enforcement have a lot of latitude.

[Methais]

The legislature makes law, the executive branch enforces it. This applies to EVERYTHING the Federal Gov't regulates.

As much as this may piss you off right now but hope you can appreciate the benefit. The complexities of passing national law are too great to not let enforcement have a lot of latitude.

What part of "enforcement" does twisting certain aspects of a law for certain groups of people fall under, such as Obama giving waivers to his pals, for example?

[Warriorbird]

What part of "enforcement" does twisting certain aspects of a law for certain groups of people fall under, such as Obama giving waivers to his pals, for example?

Source?

[Methais]

Source?

Are you seriously trying to say that waivers, delays, etc. for Obamacare haven't been given out? Or are you just being your usual troll self?

[Methais]

I want a source for Obama's "pals" getting waivers.

http://iconsoffright.com/news/Pennywise.gif

I want a source for every post you've ever made.

[Warriorbird]

http://iconsoffright.com/news/Pennywise.gif

I want a source for every post you've ever made.

Got it. You basically took it from nebulous conservative links that claimed "the unions got a waiver." when they got turned down.

[Methais]

Got it. You basically took it from nebulous conservative links that claimed "the unions got a waiver." when they got turned down.

Go ahead and point out where I mentioned anything about unions.

Which brings me to another point...if Obamacare is so great, why do even the unions, who are notoriously pro-democrat, want a waiver?

[Warriorbird]

Go ahead and point out where I mentioned anything about unions.

Which brings me to another point...if Obamacare is so great, why do even the unions, who are notoriously pro-democrat, want a waiver?

So who are "Obama's pals?"

Citing a Glenn Beck rant doesn't count.

[Archigeek]

A reactionary is a person who holds political viewpoints that favor a return to a previous state (the status quo ante) in a society. The word can also be an adjective describing such viewpoints or policies. Reactionaries are considered to be one end of a political spectrum whose opposite pole is radicalism, though reactionary ideologies may be themselves radical.-Wikipedia

Mr Cruz is a reactionary.

But who cares right? Circling back to the start of this thread, how long do you think it will be before the Tea Partiers recognize that they can't repeal Obamacare this way and start trying to say the shut down was about cutting costs? They know they can probably get thrown a cost cutting bone and save face that way right? Right?

Honestly, this is where I miss frickin' pork. So many of you whined about pork politics, but pork helped get shit done, and most pork projects were decent projects. Sure there were some bridges to nowhere which were idiotic, but for every one of those, there were 12 others like a crop science building on a university campus in someone's home state, or a new bridge that was actually needed. It may have been dirty, but it worked.

[Methais]

So who are "Obama's pals?"

Citing a Glenn Beck rant doesn't count.

That would be difficult to cite, since I don't listen to Glenn Beck.

I'll ask again...are you saying that waivers for Obamacare haven't been given out?

I'll repeat this question again too...if Obamacare is so great, why do even the unions, who are notoriously pro-democrat, want a waiver?

[Warriorbird]

That would be difficult to cite, since I don't listen to Glenn Beck.

I'll ask again...are you saying that waivers for Obamacare haven't been given out?

I'll repeat this question again too...if Obamacare is so great, why do even the unions, who are notoriously pro-democrat, want a waiver?

You claimed that "Obama's pals" got waivers. You have no proof. You have no sources. You're just frothing based off some variant of conservative media.

[Methais]

You claimed that "Obama's pals" got waivers. You have no proof.

Ok let me rephrase.

Let's just say for the sake of argument that Obama pulled random names out of a hat and gave them waivers, pals or not.

Are you still going to claim that waivers for Obamacare haven't been given out?

Why should anyone at all get a waiver? Especially if it's supposed to be such a fantastic law that will solve everybody's problems?

In case you haven't picked up on it, the emphasis is on why waivers have been given out to anybody at all.

[cwolff]

That would be difficult to cite, since I don't listen to Glenn Beck.

I'll ask again...are you saying that waivers for Obamacare haven't been given out?

I'll repeat this question again too...if Obamacare is so great, why do even the unions, who are notoriously pro-democrat, want a waiver?

Because unions are already strong on benefits and they were hoping to double dip the system. Obama said "NO" and they got pissed. So, the unions, are pissed because a Democrat is standing up to them. You should applaud this.

90% of businesses who applied were given a waiver by HHS. What's your point? Is it the "if it's so great then why do they need a waiver" argument? Oh ya, that's exactly your argument. I just read it again.

For a guy who talks big you sure have small minded ideas. I thought you were some fortune 500 successful business man. Isn't that what you were telling Whirlin? How can that be when you make such tiny little arguments on here. They're not even intellectual or thought provoking. Come on man. Put that big old brain to work and contribute ideas.

[Methais]

Is it the "if it's so great then why do they need a waiver" argument?

Can you explain why anyone would want a waiver to such a fantastic law?

If a law were passed that got you free BJs for life, would you ask for a waiver for it?

(assuming you're not gay)

[Latrinsorm]

So when you read "shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed", and Obama changes the (passed) bill of the ACA to exempt certain parties, delay certain provisions, and does so without any amendment process, is he following whatever A2S3 is?Hey, you don't have to convince me that literalism is a pretty silly philosophy. Like "arms" and "speech", the word "faithful" turned out to be subject to interpretation.
I'm sure you'll come back with loose interpretation of his actions and how they aren't actually unlawful, so no real need to respond. I'd just note that up until very recently, it wasn't loosely interpreted.Do you have a specific date in mind?

[Warriorbird]

Ok let me rephrase.

Let's just say for the sake of argument that Obama pulled random names out of a hat and gave them waivers, pals or not.

Are you still going to claim that waivers for Obamacare haven't been given out?

Why should anyone at all get a waiver? Especially if it's supposed to be such a fantastic law that will solve everybody's problems?

In case you haven't picked up on it, the emphasis is on why waivers have been given out to anybody at all.

So we backed off "Obama's pals." That's good then.

[cwolff]

Can you explain why anyone would want a waiver to such a fantastic law?

If a law were passed that got you free BJs for life, would you ask for a waiver for it?

(assuming you're not gay)

I would say that When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. You should do the same. The argument you are attempting to make is juvenile.

[Thondalar]

Hey, you don't have to convince me that literalism is a pretty silly philosophy. Like "arms" and "speech", the word "faithful" turned out to be subject to interpretation.

It isn't at all.

However, the Constitution also notes that there must be a checks and balances system between the three divisions of government. The Executive has faithfully executed his duties...now the House is faithfully executing theirs.

[Methais]

So we backed off "Obama's pals." That's good then.

Actually I'm just trying to get a straight answer out of you on whether or not waivers have been given out for Obamacare.

You know they have, but you don't want to admit it because you'd have to justify it with a reason why anyone would want to opt out of what is supposedly the best law ever passed in world history.

I'll be in Los Santos in the meantime.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A3WEMPZJD8

[Warriorbird]

Actually I'm just trying to get a straight answer out of you on whether or not waivers have been given out for Obamacare.

You know they have, but you don't want to admit it because you'd have to justify it with a reason why anyone would want to opt out of what is supposedly the best law ever passed in world history.

I'll be in Los Santos in the meantime.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A3WEMPZJD8

This was nothing we were discussing but feel free to carry on with your talking point. I love it when you're just pulling stuff out of thin air.

[cwolff]

It isn't at all.

However, the Constitution also notes that there must be a checks and balances system between the three divisions of government. The Executive has faithfully executed his duties...now the House is faithfully executing theirs.

The house is not faithfully executing theirs. In fact they are doing something beyond this and perverting the democratic process. It's closer to civil disobedience than legislating. I'll quote Fareed here because I like his phrasing.


Look, if you want to repeal Obamacare and you're the Republican Party, you're the Tea Party, great. Go for it. If you want to get rid of entitlements, you want to cut government spending, that's great. There is a procedure. You pass a bill in the House, it passes in the Senate and the president signs it.
What's happening here is because the Tea Party does not have that ability, does not have a majority in the House or the Senate, and certainly the president wouldn't sign it. So what it's trying to do is really extortion, which is to say, we will block everything if you don't give us this, which we know we couldn't get passed through the democratic process, normally. That seems to me something quite new.

[Thondalar]

The house is not faithfully executing theirs. In fact they are doing something beyond this and perverting the democratic process. It's closer to civil disobedience than legislating. I'll quote Fareed here because I like his phrasing.

Thankfully, we're still not a Democracy. Things like this are exactly why...it prevents oppression of the few by the tyranny of the majority.

If they're doing something illegal, then have them arrested.

[Tenlaar]

If a law were passed that got you free BJs for life, would you ask for a waiver for it?

(assuming you're not gay)

Why do you think gay guys don't like getting blowjobs?

[Methais]

This was nothing we were discussing but feel free to carry on with your talking point. I love it when you're just pulling stuff out of thin air.

Actually people getting waivers from Obamacare is exactly what we were talking about. The fact that you can't even answer a simple dumbed down YES or NO question is kind of amusing though.


Why do you think gay guys don't like getting blowjobs?

Because the free BJs in that bill would be from hot chicks with nice racks.

[4a6c1]

I'm getting spammed from my CNN app that they are negotiating blah blah blah. Should we take bets on this shit?

[Warriorbird]

Actually people getting waivers from Obamacare is exactly what we were talking about. The fact that you can't even answer a simple dumbed down YES or NO question is kind of amusing though.


I like how I can see the thought process at work. "Maybe I can hide the fact that I pulled my claim out of thin air! Let's demand he do something that's completely obvious and unrelated!"

[cwolff]

Thankfully, we're still not a Democracy. Things like this are exactly why...it prevents oppression of the few by the tyranny of the majority.

If they're doing something illegal, then have them arrested.

We are not a democracy. Our system relies on representation. Boehner and company perverted that specifically for this bill. My representative is Cory Gardner, a republican. Even if he wanted to, he is not capable of following the house procedures to bring a vote because Boehner dismissed our representative process and put himself solely in charge of this.


He asks from the floor for a clarification on House Rule XXII Clause 4, which states: “When the stage of disagreement has been reached on a bill or resolution with House or Senate amendments, a motion to dispose of any amendment shall be privileged.”
He is then told by the Speaker Pro Tempore that the rule had been “altered by the House.” Pushing further, he is told that the House adopted House Resolution 368, passed on October 1st. The resolution reads that “any motion pursuant to Clause 4 of Rule XXII relating to the House Joint Resolution may be offered ONLY BY THE MAJORITY LEADER OR HIS DESIGNEE.”

[Methais]

I like how I can see the thought process at work. "Maybe I can hide the fact that I pulled my claim out of thin air! Let's demand he do something that's completely obvious and unrelated!"

Is it really that hard to type YES or NO?

[Tenlaar]

Because the free BJs in that bill would be from hot chicks with nice racks.

Just what we need, another homophobe trying to make decisions about other people's bodies!

[Warriorbird]

Is it really that hard to type YES or NO?

It's really funny when you're unable to provide a source for your nonsense, then you back away from it, then you double down. I'm going to have to challenge more of your bullshit. I wonder where you get it? Chain emails? Facebook?

[Atlanteax]

Is it really that hard to type YES or NO?

WB has never once simply answered a question with a yes or no.

[Methais]

It's really funny when you're unable to provide a source for your nonsense, then you back away from it, then you double down. I'm going to have to challenge more of your bullshit. I wonder where you get it? Chain emails? Facebook?

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Taylor Farms
Teamsters Union Local # 35
The Day Care Council/Council of Supervisors and Administrators Welfare Fund
The Public Authority of San Luis Obispo County
The University Financing Foundation, Inc.
The Village of Newark Non-Union Employee Plan*
Theatrical Stage Employees Local One
Tuff Shed, Inc.
U.A. Local 13 & Employers Group Insurance Plan*
UFCW & Participating Food Industry Employers Tri-State Health & Welfare Fund
UFCW Local 1500 Welfare Fund
UFCW Local One Health Care Fund
Ulster Greene ARC*
Westminster-Canterbury of Lynchburg
Wine and Liquor Salesmen of NJ
A-1 Transport
AIDS Council of Northeastern New York
Avon Central School District
Azeros Health Plans, Inc.*
Benton County*
Bessey Tools, Inc.
Canandaigua City Schools*
City of Eagan*
City of Shakopee Post-Employment Health Care Savings Account Plan *
Community Work and Independence Inc.
Continuing Developmental Services
Crystal Cabinet Works, Inc.
CU*Answers, Inc.
Euromarket Designs, Inc., d/b/a Crate and Barrel
First National Bank of Dietrerich
Franziska Racker Centers*
Fridley Public Schools Health Savings Plan*
FSA/SUNYAB-Campus Dining and Shops
Genesee County ARC*
Genesee County Economic Development Corp Health Reimbursement Account*
Grand Island Central School District*
Hammondsport Central School District
Imperial Wholesale, Inc.
Learning Disabilities Association of Western New York
Minnesota State Retirement System Post-Employment Health Care Savings Plan - City of Roseville*
Naples Central School District
Naples Central School District Support Staff
Newark Central School District
Niagara-Wheatfield CSD Self Funded
Panama Central School District
People 1st Health Strategies, Inc.
Pipe Fitters' Welfare Fund, Local 597*
Ron Clark Construction Health reimbursement Arrangement*
Sherman Central School District
Silver Creek Central School District*
Sodus Central School District
Telco Construction
Town of Albion
Town of Chenango
Town of Lockport
Twin City Die Casting*
Western Area Volunteer Emergency Services *
Westfield Academy*
Williamson Central School District
American Radio Association Plan
Carpenters Health and Security Trust of Western Washington
Communicare Health Benefits Trust
District Council 1707 Local 389 Home Care Employees Health & Welfare Fund
Health and Welfare Plan of the Laundry, Dry Cleaning Workers & Allied Industry Health Fund, Workers United
Northern Illinois and Iowa Laborers Health and Welfare Fund
Prell Services
United Food and Commercial Workers Retail Employees and Employers Health and Welfare Plan
A-1 Realty*
AABR*
ABCO Diecasters*
Alfred P. Sloan*
Alizio & Galfunt*
All American Heating and AC*
Allied Pilots Association
Amherst Central School District*
AristaCare at Meadow Springs*
Arthur Sanderson& Sons*
Associated General Contractors of ND Employees*
Autistic Service, Inc.*
Bartech Group
Basf Fuel Cell, Inc.*
Battery Park City Authority*
Battery Park City Conservancy*
Benefit Analysis Inc.*
Blaze SSI*
Blue Beacon
Board of Trustees for the Operating Engineers Local 101 Health and Welfare Fund
Business Wire*
Cargo Ventures*
Carnegie Corporation of NY*
Carpenters Local No. 491 Health & Welfare Plan
Central Laborers' Welfare Fund
Central States, Southeast and Southwest Areas Health and Welfare Fund
City of Cottage Grove*
City of Inver Grove Heights*
City Of Roseville MN*
Clinton Management*
Cloquet Area Fire Department*
Cohen Partners*
Community Bank of Bergen County*
Community Mainstreaming*
Contract Cleaners Service Employees Benefit Trust
Cornerstone Search Group*
D & D Ag Supply and Construction, Inc.*
Dial Senior Management, Inc
Douglaston Development*
Dr. Margaret Andrin, MD FACOG LLC*
Dynasil Corporation*
Echo Molding*
Eighth District Electrical Benefit Fund
Electrical Workers Health and Welfare Fund
Enterprise Concrete Products, LLC Texas
Epilepsy Foundation*
Epilepsy Foundation Northeastern New York*
Evans Chemetics*
Excellus Health Plan
Fairport Central School District*
Goodwill Industries of Central Indiana
Gregory Packaging*
Gulf Coast Health Care
Handcraft Manufacturing Corporation*
Haver Analytics Health Waiver*
Health Care Employees Dental and Medical Trust
Hiawatha Medical, Inc.*
Highfield Gardens Care Center*
Hirsch International*
Hotel, Restaurant & Bar Employees Health and Welfare Fund
Hypex Inc.*
IBEW Local Union No. 126 Health and Welfare Fund
International Union of Operating Engineers, Supplemental Benefit Fund Local 409*
Interstate Connecting Components*
Jacobson Family Investments*
J-B Wholesale Pet Supplies*
JKL International*
Jump, Scutellaro, and Co., LLP*
KC International dba Ekman Recycling*
Kerwin Communications*
Kingstown Capital Management*
Koellman Gear Corporation*
Kramer Electronics*
Lakeview Subacute Care Center*
Langan Engineering and Financial Services, Inc.*
LBDD*
League of Minnesota Cities*
Leisure Properties LLC d/b/a/ Crownline Boats*
Liberty House Nursing Home*
Lifetime Assistance, Inc*
Lincoln Hall*
Local 888 UFCW
Maharishi University of Management
Mamiya America Corporation*
Mandt Reiss & Associates PLLC
Margaret P. Muscarelle Child Dev. Center*
Merrill Farms LLC
Micelli Motors, Inc.*
Midwest Asphalt Corporation *
Midwest Teamsters
Monroe County*
Nassau County Chapter, NYSARC, Inc*
NCHC, Inc.*
New York State Assn. for Retarded Children Erie Co. Chapter dba/Heritage Centers*
NJ Society of CPAs*
North Greece Fire District*
Northern Minnesota-Wisconsin Area Retail Food Health & Welfare Fund
Ogontz Avenue Revitalization Corporation*
Parkview Care and Rehab*
PCB Machining Solutions*
PCB Piezotronics*
Philadelphia Macaroni Company*
Phoenix Partners Group, LP*
Privilege Underwriters, Inc.*
Progressive AE*
Quadrant Capital Advisors, Inc.*
Regency Management Group, LLC*
Rhoads Industries*
Roofers Local #96 Health & Welfare Fund
Rowe and Company, Inc.*
Rush-Henrietta Central School District HRA*
Security Benefit Fund of the Uniformed Firefighters Association of New York City
SEIU Health and Welfare fund, 2000
Seneca Cayuga ARC*
Service Employees 32BJ North Health Benefit Fund*
Sierra Video Systems*
SMEG*
Strategic Industries*
Superior Officers Council Health and Welfare Fund
Teamsters Local Union 966 Health Fund
Techno Source USA*
The Alternative Living Group, Inc.*
The Arc of Otsego (Otsego County Chapter NYSARC, Inc.)*
The Arc of Rensselaer County*
The City of Cloquet*
The Henry Luce Foundation*
The Maritime Aquarium of Norwalk, Inc.*
The Pew Charitable Trusts*
The Rehabilitation Center*
The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation*
Topco*
Totino Grace High School*
Urstadt Biddle Properties*
W.H. Reaves & Co., Inc.*
Walder, Hayden & Brogan, PA*
Walters-Morgan Construction, Inc.
Wellspring Advisors*
West Bergen Mental Healthcare*
Westchester ARC*
Westchester JCS*
Western Beef*
Hollow Metal Trust Fund
Theatrical Teamsters Local 817 IBT Welfare Fund
Vestal Manufacturing Enterprises, Inc.
AccessAbility, Inc.
Ackerman Oil Employee Benefit Trust
Albany County Chapter, NYSARC Inc., DBA New Visions of Albany*
American Eagle Outfitters
Basin Disposal
Bengard Ranch, Inc.
Bestway Rental, Inc
Big Lots, Inc.
Byrd Harvest, Inc.
Cardinal Hayes Home for Children HRA plan*
CDS Administrative Services, LLC
Center for Energy and Environment*
City of Brooklyn Park*
D'Arrigo Bros. Co. of California
Defender Services, Inc.
DineEquity, Inc
Green Leaf Distributors, Inc.
IBEW Local Union No. 728 Family Healthcare Plan
Joseph Gallo Farms
Life Benefit Plan
Luther Automotive Group HRA*
Metrics Inc.
Nueces County Appraisal District
Ocean Properties Ltd
P-R Farms, Inc.
SEIU Health & Welfare Fund
Sports Arena Employees' Local 137 Welfare Fund
Staywell Saipan Basic Plan
Truck Drivers and Helpers Local 355 Health and Welfare Fund
Communications Workers of America, Local 1180 Security Benefits Fund
Health and Welfare Fund of the Detectives' Endowment Association, Inc. Police Department City of New York
Man-U Service Contract Health and Welfare Fund
Paschall Truck Lines, Inc.
SEIU Local 300, Civil Service Forum Employees Welfare Fund
Electrical Welfare Trust Fund
Highmark West Virginia Inc. d/b/a Mountain State Blue Cross Blue Shield
Advocacy and Resource Center*
Amalgamated, Industrial and Toy & Novelty Workers of America, Local 223 Sick Benefit Fund
Atlanta Plumbers & Steamfitters Fringe Benefit Funds
Aurora Consulting Group, Inc.*
Brock Enterprises, Inc.
Central Texas Health and Benefit Trust Fund Locals 520, 60 & 72
Electricians Health, Welfare & Pension Plans I.B.E.W. Local Union No. 995
Essex County Chapter NYSARC, Inc. dba Mountain Lake Services*
Executive Management Services, Inc.
Florida Laborers Health Fund
Fulton County Chapter NYSARC, Inc.*
General Parts, LLC*
Greystone program, Inc*
Hacienda Harvesting, Inc.
IBEW Local No. 640 and Arizona Chapter NECA Health & Welfare Trust Fund
Lone Star Park at Grand Prairie
Louisiana Electrical Health Fund
Maverick, Inc. Employee Health Care Benefits Plan
Memphis Construction Benefit Fund
Mid-South Carpenters Regional Council Health and Welfare Fund
Mountain Lake Services
NECA-IBEW Local 480 Health and Welfare Plan
Plumbers and Pipefitters Welfare Fund of Local Union No. 719
Retiree Plan of the Central States, Southeast and Southwest Areas Health and Welfare Fund
Richmond Community Services*
Sheet Metal Workers Local No. 177 Health and Welfare, Pension and Vacation Funds
Sheet Metal Workers' National Health Fund
South Central Laborers' Health & Welfare Fund
Southeastern Pipetrades Health & Welfare Fund
Telamon Corporation Health Reimbursement Arrangement*
The ARC of Delaware County*
UFCW Local 1262 and Employers Health & Welfare Fund
United Cerebral Palsy of Ulster County, Inc*
Vincent B Zaninovich & Sons, Inc.
Wayne ARC Standalone HRA Section 105 Plan*
Wildwood Program*
Allied Welfare Fund
Becker County Post-Retirement Health Care Savings Plan*
Becker County VEBA*
FIDUCIA*
Triple-S Salud, Inc.
B. R. Company
Britz Companies, ET AL
Century Health and Wellness Benefit Plan and Trust
EBSA Foundation
Encore Enterprises
Faurecia USA Holdings
Goodwill Industries of Kentucky, Inc.
Minnesota Cement Masons Health and Welfare Fund
Plumbers Local Union No. 690 of Philadelphia and Vicinity Health Plan
Robert Heath Trucking Inc
Securitas Security Services USA, Inc.
Sunwest Fruit Company, Inc
The Louis Berger Group, Inc.
United Food & Commercial Workers Unions and Employers Midwest Health Benefits Fund
WD Young& Sons, Inc.
Atlantis Casino Resort Spa
United Food and Commercial Workers and Employers Arizona
Act Trust Mini-Med Plan
Allen's Family Food
Anderson Media Corporation
Blasters, Drillers & Miners Union Local No. 29 Welfare Fund
Care Initiatives, Inc.
Cement and Concrete Workers District Council Welfare Fund Plan
COARC*
Construction Workers Local 147 Welfare Fund
Crystal Run Healthcare
Diamondback Management Services, LTD
Freeman Metal Products
Hardwick Clothes, Inc.
Hronis, Inc.
International Union of Bricklayers & Allied Craftworkers
Isaacson Isaacson Seridan & Fountain, LLP
Katy Industries, Inc.
Landscape, Irrigation and Lawn Sprinkler Industry Health and Welfare Plan and Trust
Local 298 Health Benefit Fund Plan
Local 803 Health and Welfare Fund
Louisiana Laborers Health and Welfare Fund
M.A. Mortenson
Maple Knoll Communities
Marshall Durbin Food Corporation
Minnesota Teamsters Construction Division
Name Brand, Inc.
Oklahoma Goodwill Industries
PepsiCo, Inc
Plumbers & Pipefitters Local Union 823 Health & Welfare Fund
Plumbers & Steamfitters Local No. 6 Health and Welfare Fund
Regent Care Center
Rice Food Markets, Inc.
Rice Food Markets, Inc.
Ricker Oil Company
Skilled Health Care
Southwestern Teamsters Security Fund
Teamsters Local 445 Welfare Plan
Teamsters Local 210 Affiliated Health and Insurance Fund
Teamsters Welfare Fund of Northern New Jersey Local 1723
The Durango Herald
The Talbots, Inc
Town of Frisco Medical Plan
Tudor Ranch
UNITE HERE Local 74 Welfare and Dental Trust
United Employees Health Plans
United Food and Commercial Workers Union Local 1000 and Kroger Dallas Health and Welfare Plan
United Service Employees Union, Local 377, RWDSU, UFCW
WageWorks, Inc
IBEW Local 613 and Contributing Employers Family Health Plan (Union)
Advantage Benefits Company, LLC
Aerospace Contractors' Trust**
AJFC Community Action Plan**
Altisource Portfolio Solutions
American Heritage Life Insurance Company
Americare Properties, Inc.
AMN Healthcare
Andrews Transport L.P.**
Anoka Hennepin Credit Union* **
APWU Health Plan Conversion Plan
Aspen Snowmass**
ATCO Rubber Products, Inc
Baylor County Hospital District
Belk Farms**
Bricklayers Local 1 of MD, VA and DC
Cardon & Associates, Inc**
Catholic Charities of the Diocese of Ogdensburg
Central Mills**
Civil Service Bar Association Security Benefit Fund**
Cotton Belt Inc.**
CPC Logistics Health & Welfare Plan**
Delmarva United Food and Commercial Workers**
Dole Food Company**
EchoStar**
First Acceptance Corporation
Fontanese Folts Aubrecht Ernst Architects, PC**
Forest Products Inc. Group Health Plan**
Fruhauf Uniform Direct Labor
Golden State Bulb Growers, Inc.**
Greater Kansas City Laborers Welfare Fund**
Grower's Transport LLC
Heartland Automotive**
Helfman Enterprises, Inc.**
Hoosier Stamping and Manufacturing Corp.
Horizon Bay Realty LLC**
I.B.E.W. Local 1249 Insurance Fund**
Ingomar Packing Company, LLC
Integra Healthcare, Inc. (Integrity Home Care)**
International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers**
International Brotherhood of Trade Unions Health and Welfare Fund - Local 713
International Union of Operating Engineers Local 295-295C Welfare Trust Fund**
International union of Operating Engineers, Local Union Number 137**
Iron Workers Local Union #28 Health and Welfare Fund**
Lamanuzzi & Pantaleo**
Living Resources**
Local 1102 Amalgamated Welfare Fund
Local 1102 Health & Benefit Fund
Local 1102 Welfare Fund-- Lerner Employees
Local 272 Welfare Fund**
Local 338 Affiliated Benefit Funds
Madelia Community Hospital**
Max Homes, Loc**
Medical Development Corporation**
Mesa Air Group**
Mesa Packing**
Michigan Conference of Teamsters Welfare Fund**
Minnesota and North Dakota Bricklayers and Allied Craftworkers**
Mission Linen Supply
NFI Industries
Operating Engineers Local 835 Health and Welfare Fund
Opportunity Resources, Inc. Health and Welfare Plan
Orange County AHRC* **
Orscheln Industries
Pacific Risk Management**
Pearson Candy Company
Pinnacle PRM**
Plumbers and Pipefitters Local 430 Health and Welfare Fund**
Progressive Logistics Services**
Pure Air Filter Sales & Service**
Rancho Maria PRM**
Reiter Affiliated Companies**
Retail, Wholesale & Dept. Store Union Local 1034 Welfare Fund
Rio Farms PRM**
Sensient Technologies Corp.
Service Employees International Union Local 1 Cleveland Welfare Fund
SFN Group
Sheet Metal Workers Funds of Local Union 38**
SMWIA 28**
Southeast OBGYN, PC* **
Southern CA Pipe Trades Trust Fund
Southern Operators Health Fund**
Stonebridge Hospitality Associates**
Sun Healthcare Group, Inc.
Teamsters Local 522 Welfare Fund Roofers Division
Teamsters Local Union 72 Welfare Fund**
Telesis Management Corporation
Texas Carpenters and Millwrights Health and Welfare Fund
The Mentor Network
The Wada Farms, Inc.
The Wilks Group, Inc. dba Ashley Furniture Homestore
The Wright Travel Agency**
Town of Grand Island* **
Trans-System, Inc.
True Leaf Farms**
UFCW Local 371 Amalgamated Welfare Fund**
United Crafts Benefits Fund**
United Food & Commercial Workers Unions and Employers Local No. 348 Health & Welfare Fund**
United Food and Commercial Workers Local 1445 New Hampshire
United Food and Commercial Workers Local 1459 and Contributing Employers Health and Welfare Fund**
United Food and Commercial Workers Local 464a**
United Food and Commercial Workers Local 911**
Varsity Contractors, Inc.
Waffle House
Weckworth Manufacturing**
Western Express, Inc.
Western Harvesting PRM Health Plan**
WG Yates and Sons Construction Company**
World Class Automotive**
Yukon-Kuskokwim Health Corporation**
Alaska Pipe Trade U.A. Local 367 Health and Security Trust**
Amalgamated National Health Fund
American Farms, PRM Health Plan**
American Growers Cooling, PRM Health Plan**
AUTO, LP, dba AutoInc. Health Benefit Plan**
Better Way Partners, LLC**
Big Valley Labor, PRM Health Plan**
CB Harvesting, PRM Health Plan**
City of Rockwall**
Cocopah Nurseries, Inc.
Express Harvesting, PRM Health Plan**
Fallen Oak Packing, PRM Health Plan**
FirstCarolinaCare Insurance Company on behalf of Longworth Industries
Foot Locker, Inc.**
Fresh Express
G&H Farms, PRM Health Plan**
Gill Ranch, PRM Health Plan**
Gill Transport, PRM Health Plan**
Gills Onions, PRM Health Plan**
Green Valley Farm Supply, PRM Health Plan**
Greencroft Communities
Growers Express, PRM Health Plan**
Hall Management Group, Inc.**
IH Services**
Independent Group Home Living Program, Inc.
King City Nursery, PRM Health Plan**
Meijer Health Benefits Plan/Primary Care Option
Mission Ranches, PRM Health Plan**
Moore's Retread & Tire of the Ark-La-Tex, Inc.
NOITU Insurance Trust Fund**
Payroll Solutions
Plumbers and Pipefitters Local No. 630 Welfare Fund
Seco Packing
Transcorr
United Food and Commercial Workers Union Local 1000
United Wire, Metal & Machine Health & Welfare Fund**
Western Growers Assurance Trust
Wisconsin United Food & Commercial Workers Unions and Employers Health Plan**
1199SEIU Greater New York Benefit Fund
A. Duda & Sons, Inc.
Adecco Group, Inc.
Biomedic Corporation
Buffets, Inc.
Carington Health System
Cleveland Bakers Teamsters
Club Chef LLC
Columbia Sussex Mgmt, LLC
CRST International Inc.
Darr Equipment, Co.
DC Cement Masons Welfare Fund
Deaconess Long Term Care
Diamond Comic Distributors, Inc.
ECOM Atlantic, Inc.
FW Walton, Inc.
G4S Secure Solutions
GC Services, L.P. & First Community Bancshares, Inc.
Guardsmark, LLC
Indiana Teamsters Health Benefits Fund
Knox County Association for Retarded Citizens
Laundry and Dry Cleaning Workers Local No. 52
Mars Super Markets, Inc.
MPS Group, Inc.
Nexion Health
Noodles & Company
Pharmaca Integrative Pharmacy
Quality Integrated Services, Inc.
RE Rabalais Constructors, LTD
RREMC LLC
Security Forces Inc.
Shirkey Nursing
Social Service Employees Union Local 371
Spindle, Cooling, & Warehouse
Strauss Discount Auto
Sunburst Hospitality
Susser Holding Corp
Telescope Casual Furniture
Teletech Holdings, Inc.
The Brinkman Corporation
The LDF Companies
United Food and Commercial Workers Union (Mount Laurel, NJ)
United Food and Commercial Workers Union Local 1459
Universal Orlando
Valley Services, Inc.
United Food and Commercial Workers and Participating Employers Interstate Health and Welfare Fund
Protocol Marketing Group
Sasnak
Star Tek
Adventist Care Centers
B.E.S.T of NY
Boskovich Farms, Inc
Café Enterprises, Inc.
Capital District Physicians
FleetPride, Inc.
Gallegos Corp
Hensley Industries, Inc.
Jeffords Steel and Engineering
Laborers' International Union of North America Local Union No. 616 Health and Welfare Plan
O.K. Industries
Service Employees Benefit Fund
Sun Pacific Farming Coop
SunWorld International, LLC
UFCW Allied Trade Health & Welfare Trust
United Food and Commercial Workers Union Local 1995
HCR Manor Care
IBEW No.915
Integra BMS for Culp, Inc.
New England Health Care Employees Welfare Fund †
Wiliamson-Dickie Manufacturing Company
Aegis Security Insurance Company †
Alliance One Tobacco
Asbestos Workers Local 53 Welfare Fund
Assurant Health (2nd Application)
Captain Elliot's Party Boats
Carlson Restaurants
CH Guenther & Son
CKM Industries dba Miller Environmental
Caribbean Workers’ Voluntary Employees’ Beneficiary Health and Welfare Plan †
Darden Restaurants
Duarte Nursery
Employees Security Fund
Florida Trowel Trades
Ingles Markets
Meijer
O'Reilly Auto Parts
Plumbers & Pipefitters Local 123 Welfare Fund
Sun Belt
UFCW Local 227
Uncle Julio's
United Group
US Imaging
Vino Farms
AdvantaStaff, Inc. †
Agricare
Alaska Seafood
American Fidelity
Convergys
Darensberries
Gowan Company
Greystar
Macayo Restaurants
Periodical Services
UniFirst
Universal Forest Products
UFCW Maximus Local 455
American Habilitation Services, Inc. †
GuideStone Financial Resources
Local 25 SEIU
MAUSER Corp.
Preferred Care, Inc.
Ruby Tuesday
The Dixie Group, Inc.
UFCW Local 1262
Whelan Security Company
AMF Bowling Worldwide
Assisted Living Concepts
Case & Associates
GPM Investments
Grace Living Centers
Mountaire Corporation †
Swift Spinning
Belmont Village
Caliber Services
Cracker Barrel
DISH Network
Groendyke Transport, Inc
Pocono Medical Center
Regis Corporation
The Pictsweet Co.
Diversified Interiors
Local 802 Musicians Health Fund
MCS Life Insurance Company †
The Buccaneer
CIGNA
Greater Metropolitan Hotel
Local 17 Hospitality Benefit Fund
GSC-ILA
The Allied Industries Health Fund
Harden Healthcare
Vernon Sheltered Workshop, Inc. Health and Welfare Plan #501
I.U.P.A.T
Sanderson Plumbing Products, Inc.
Transport Workers
United Federation of Teachers Welfare Fund
Aegis
Aetna
Allflex
Baptist Retirement
BCS Insurance
Cryogenic
Fowler Packing Co.
Guy C. Lee Mfg.
HealthPort
Jack in the Box
Maritime Association
Maverick County
Metropolitan D.C. Paving Industry Employees Health and Welfare Fund
PMPS-ILA
PS-ILA
QK/DRD (Denny's)
Reliance Standard
Tri-Pak
United Agricultural Benefit Trust ††

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2900475/posts

After roughly 1 minute on Google. Never heard of this site, but I'm sure you'll find an issue with it since it doesn't start with huffington or moveon or appear to be pro-Obama, and I'm sure every company on that list was made up by some random guy.

Are you going to answer my question now? I'll ask again, just in case you forgot what it was:

Have any waivers been given out for Obamacare?

And a couple bonus questions too for extra points, that you'll never answer:

Why should waivers be given to anybody if it's such a great law?

Why do people have to be forced into it if it's such a great law?

[4a6c1]

It's really funny when you're unable to provide a source for your nonsense, then you back away from it, then you double down. I'm going to have to challenge more of your bullshit. I wonder where you get it? Chain emails? Facebook?

Oh shit. Is Methais like the male version of Annoying Facebook Mom? "JESUS IS LIFE. OBAMA IS ANTICHRIST. LIKE THIS TO GO TO HEAVEN."

[Tenlaar]

Person 1- Obama gave waivers to his buddies!!!1! Admit it!
Person 2- Says who? What evidence is there of that?
Person 1- You know he gave out waivers! ADMIT IT!
Person 2- Wait, you didn't say give out waivers, you said...
Person 1- So you admit he gave out waivers!
Person 2- That's not what you said...
Person 1- See, you won't even answer a simple yes or no question!

In this instance, I can't blame him.

[Methais]

Oh shit. Is Methais like the male version of Annoying Facebook Mom? "JESUS IS LIFE. OBAMA IS ANTICHRIST. LIKE THIS TO GO TO HEAVEN."

Shouldn't you be out hating on cocks somewhere?

[4a6c1]

I CAN DO THAT HERE JESUS IS LIFE LIKE THIS IF METHAIS IS DUMB

[Warriorbird]

24 Hour Fitness
Allied Building Inspectors IUOE Local 211 Welfare Fund
Alpha Omega Home Health, LLC
Andersen Corporation
Bowman Sheet Metal Heating & Air-conditioning
Bricklayers Insurance & Welfare Fund
Bridge, Structural, Ornamental & Reinforcing Ironworkers Local Union No. 60*
Carey Johnson Oil Co, Inc
Catholic Charities of the Diocese of Albany*
Cement Masons' Local No. 502 Welfare Fund
City of Bloomington VEBA Health Savings Plan*
City of Burnsville*
City of Olathe*
Clausen Miller PC
Crystal Run Village, Inc*
Delta Apparel
Discovery Benefits*
Dr. Trailer Repair, Inc.
Employer-Teamsters Local Nos. 175 & 505 Health and Welfare Fund
Entrust
Fabri-Quilt
GC Harvesting, Inc.
Glen Curtis, Inc. #2143
Heritage Christian Services
IBEW Local 3 NYC Electrical Division Health & Welfare Fund
Indiana Area UFCW Union Locals and Retail Food Employers' Health and Welfare Plan
Ingham County
Innovative Driver Services Company
Integrity Data*
Inter-County Hospitalization Plan, Inc.
Jakov P. Dulcich & Sons
Jefferson Rehabilitation Center
JLG Harvesting, Inc.
Johnson Machine Works
Kent County
Laborers' District Council of Virginia Health and Welfare Trust Fund
Laborers National Health and Welfare Fund
Local 1245 Health Fund
Local 237 Teamsters Suffolk Regional Off-Track Betting Corp. Health and Welfare Trust Fund
Local 295 Welfare Fund
Local 381 Group Insurance Fund
Local 805 Welfare Fund
Marble Industry Trust Fund
McGregor Schools ISD #4*
MJ Soffe
MO-Kan Teamsters and Welfare Fund
Mounds View Public Schools*
MVP
North State Bank
North States Industries Inc*
Pathways Inc.
Pavers and Road Builders District Council Welfare Fund
Phoenix Children's Academy
Roofers Local 8 Insurance & Trust Fund
San Bernardino IHSS Public Authority
SCC Healthcare Group, LLP
Schenectady ARC*
Schoharie County ARC*
Sieben Polk Law Firm
Sitel, Inc.
Southern Graphic Communication Health Fund
Springbrook Standalone HRA*
St. Lawrence NYSARC*
Sunview Vineyards of California, Inc.
Tandem Eastern Inc. / Consolidated Transport Systems, Inc.
Taylor Farms
Teamsters Union Local # 35
The Day Care Council/Council of Supervisors and Administrators Welfare Fund
The Public Authority of San Luis Obispo County
The University Financing Foundation, Inc.
The Village of Newark Non-Union Employee Plan*
Theatrical Stage Employees Local One
Tuff Shed, Inc.
U.A. Local 13 & Employers Group Insurance Plan*
UFCW & Participating Food Industry Employers Tri-State Health & Welfare Fund
UFCW Local 1500 Welfare Fund
UFCW Local One Health Care Fund
Ulster Greene ARC*
Westminster-Canterbury of Lynchburg
Wine and Liquor Salesmen of NJ
A-1 Transport
AIDS Council of Northeastern New York
Avon Central School District
Azeros Health Plans, Inc.*
Benton County*
Bessey Tools, Inc.
Canandaigua City Schools*
City of Eagan*
City of Shakopee Post-Employment Health Care Savings Account Plan *
Community Work and Independence Inc.
Continuing Developmental Services
Crystal Cabinet Works, Inc.
CU*Answers, Inc.
Euromarket Designs, Inc., d/b/a Crate and Barrel
First National Bank of Dietrerich
Franziska Racker Centers*
Fridley Public Schools Health Savings Plan*
FSA/SUNYAB-Campus Dining and Shops
Genesee County ARC*
Genesee County Economic Development Corp Health Reimbursement Account*
Grand Island Central School District*
Hammondsport Central School District
Imperial Wholesale, Inc.
Learning Disabilities Association of Western New York
Minnesota State Retirement System Post-Employment Health Care Savings Plan - City of Roseville*
Naples Central School District
Naples Central School District Support Staff
Newark Central School District
Niagara-Wheatfield CSD Self Funded
Panama Central School District
People 1st Health Strategies, Inc.
Pipe Fitters' Welfare Fund, Local 597*
Ron Clark Construction Health reimbursement Arrangement*
Sherman Central School District
Silver Creek Central School District*
Sodus Central School District
Telco Construction
Town of Albion
Town of Chenango
Town of Lockport
Twin City Die Casting*
Western Area Volunteer Emergency Services *
Westfield Academy*
Williamson Central School District
American Radio Association Plan
Carpenters Health and Security Trust of Western Washington
Communicare Health Benefits Trust
District Council 1707 Local 389 Home Care Employees Health & Welfare Fund
Health and Welfare Plan of the Laundry, Dry Cleaning Workers & Allied Industry Health Fund, Workers United
Northern Illinois and Iowa Laborers Health and Welfare Fund
Prell Services
United Food and Commercial Workers Retail Employees and Employers Health and Welfare Plan
A-1 Realty*
AABR*
ABCO Diecasters*
Alfred P. Sloan*
Alizio & Galfunt*
All American Heating and AC*
Allied Pilots Association
Amherst Central School District*
AristaCare at Meadow Springs*
Arthur Sanderson& Sons*
Associated General Contractors of ND Employees*
Autistic Service, Inc.*
Bartech Group
Basf Fuel Cell, Inc.*
Battery Park City Authority*
Battery Park City Conservancy*
Benefit Analysis Inc.*
Blaze SSI*
Blue Beacon
Board of Trustees for the Operating Engineers Local 101 Health and Welfare Fund
Business Wire*
Cargo Ventures*
Carnegie Corporation of NY*
Carpenters Local No. 491 Health & Welfare Plan
Central Laborers' Welfare Fund
Central States, Southeast and Southwest Areas Health and Welfare Fund
City of Cottage Grove*
City of Inver Grove Heights*
City Of Roseville MN*
Clinton Management*
Cloquet Area Fire Department*
Cohen Partners*
Community Bank of Bergen County*
Community Mainstreaming*
Contract Cleaners Service Employees Benefit Trust
Cornerstone Search Group*
D & D Ag Supply and Construction, Inc.*
Dial Senior Management, Inc
Douglaston Development*
Dr. Margaret Andrin, MD FACOG LLC*
Dynasil Corporation*
Echo Molding*
Eighth District Electrical Benefit Fund
Electrical Workers Health and Welfare Fund
Enterprise Concrete Products, LLC Texas
Epilepsy Foundation*
Epilepsy Foundation Northeastern New York*
Evans Chemetics*
Excellus Health Plan
Fairport Central School District*
Goodwill Industries of Central Indiana
Gregory Packaging*
Gulf Coast Health Care
Handcraft Manufacturing Corporation*
Haver Analytics Health Waiver*
Health Care Employees Dental and Medical Trust
Hiawatha Medical, Inc.*
Highfield Gardens Care Center*
Hirsch International*
Hotel, Restaurant & Bar Employees Health and Welfare Fund
Hypex Inc.*
IBEW Local Union No. 126 Health and Welfare Fund
International Union of Operating Engineers, Supplemental Benefit Fund Local 409*
Interstate Connecting Components*
Jacobson Family Investments*
J-B Wholesale Pet Supplies*
JKL International*
Jump, Scutellaro, and Co., LLP*
KC International dba Ekman Recycling*
Kerwin Communications*
Kingstown Capital Management*
Koellman Gear Corporation*
Kramer Electronics*
Lakeview Subacute Care Center*
Langan Engineering and Financial Services, Inc.*
LBDD*
League of Minnesota Cities*
Leisure Properties LLC d/b/a/ Crownline Boats*
Liberty House Nursing Home*
Lifetime Assistance, Inc*
Lincoln Hall*
Local 888 UFCW
Maharishi University of Management
Mamiya America Corporation*
Mandt Reiss & Associates PLLC
Margaret P. Muscarelle Child Dev. Center*
Merrill Farms LLC
Micelli Motors, Inc.*
Midwest Asphalt Corporation *
Midwest Teamsters
Monroe County*
Nassau County Chapter, NYSARC, Inc*
NCHC, Inc.*
New York State Assn. for Retarded Children Erie Co. Chapter dba/Heritage Centers*
NJ Society of CPAs*
North Greece Fire District*
Northern Minnesota-Wisconsin Area Retail Food Health & Welfare Fund
Ogontz Avenue Revitalization Corporation*
Parkview Care and Rehab*
PCB Machining Solutions*
PCB Piezotronics*
Philadelphia Macaroni Company*
Phoenix Partners Group, LP*
Privilege Underwriters, Inc.*
Progressive AE*
Quadrant Capital Advisors, Inc.*
Regency Management Group, LLC*
Rhoads Industries*
Roofers Local #96 Health & Welfare Fund
Rowe and Company, Inc.*
Rush-Henrietta Central School District HRA*
Security Benefit Fund of the Uniformed Firefighters Association of New York City
SEIU Health and Welfare fund, 2000
Seneca Cayuga ARC*
Service Employees 32BJ North Health Benefit Fund*
Sierra Video Systems*
SMEG*
Strategic Industries*
Superior Officers Council Health and Welfare Fund
Teamsters Local Union 966 Health Fund
Techno Source USA*
The Alternative Living Group, Inc.*
The Arc of Otsego (Otsego County Chapter NYSARC, Inc.)*
The Arc of Rensselaer County*
The City of Cloquet*
The Henry Luce Foundation*
The Maritime Aquarium of Norwalk, Inc.*
The Pew Charitable Trusts*
The Rehabilitation Center*
The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation*
Topco*
Totino Grace High School*
Urstadt Biddle Properties*
W.H. Reaves & Co., Inc.*
Walder, Hayden & Brogan, PA*
Walters-Morgan Construction, Inc.
Wellspring Advisors*
West Bergen Mental Healthcare*
Westchester ARC*
Westchester JCS*
Western Beef*
Hollow Metal Trust Fund
Theatrical Teamsters Local 817 IBT Welfare Fund
Vestal Manufacturing Enterprises, Inc.
AccessAbility, Inc.
Ackerman Oil Employee Benefit Trust
Albany County Chapter, NYSARC Inc., DBA New Visions of Albany*
American Eagle Outfitters
Basin Disposal
Bengard Ranch, Inc.
Bestway Rental, Inc
Big Lots, Inc.
Byrd Harvest, Inc.
Cardinal Hayes Home for Children HRA plan*
CDS Administrative Services, LLC
Center for Energy and Environment*
City of Brooklyn Park*
D'Arrigo Bros. Co. of California
Defender Services, Inc.
DineEquity, Inc
Green Leaf Distributors, Inc.
IBEW Local Union No. 728 Family Healthcare Plan
Joseph Gallo Farms
Life Benefit Plan
Luther Automotive Group HRA*
Metrics Inc.
Nueces County Appraisal District
Ocean Properties Ltd
P-R Farms, Inc.
SEIU Health & Welfare Fund
Sports Arena Employees' Local 137 Welfare Fund
Staywell Saipan Basic Plan
Truck Drivers and Helpers Local 355 Health and Welfare Fund
Communications Workers of America, Local 1180 Security Benefits Fund
Health and Welfare Fund of the Detectives' Endowment Association, Inc. Police Department City of New York
Man-U Service Contract Health and Welfare Fund
Paschall Truck Lines, Inc.
SEIU Local 300, Civil Service Forum Employees Welfare Fund
Electrical Welfare Trust Fund
Highmark West Virginia Inc. d/b/a Mountain State Blue Cross Blue Shield
Advocacy and Resource Center*
Amalgamated, Industrial and Toy & Novelty Workers of America, Local 223 Sick Benefit Fund
Atlanta Plumbers & Steamfitters Fringe Benefit Funds
Aurora Consulting Group, Inc.*
Brock Enterprises, Inc.
Central Texas Health and Benefit Trust Fund Locals 520, 60 & 72
Electricians Health, Welfare & Pension Plans I.B.E.W. Local Union No. 995
Essex County Chapter NYSARC, Inc. dba Mountain Lake Services*
Executive Management Services, Inc.
Florida Laborers Health Fund
Fulton County Chapter NYSARC, Inc.*
General Parts, LLC*
Greystone program, Inc*
Hacienda Harvesting, Inc.
IBEW Local No. 640 and Arizona Chapter NECA Health & Welfare Trust Fund
Lone Star Park at Grand Prairie
Louisiana Electrical Health Fund
Maverick, Inc. Employee Health Care Benefits Plan
Memphis Construction Benefit Fund
Mid-South Carpenters Regional Council Health and Welfare Fund
Mountain Lake Services
NECA-IBEW Local 480 Health and Welfare Plan
Plumbers and Pipefitters Welfare Fund of Local Union No. 719
Retiree Plan of the Central States, Southeast and Southwest Areas Health and Welfare Fund
Richmond Community Services*
Sheet Metal Workers Local No. 177 Health and Welfare, Pension and Vacation Funds
Sheet Metal Workers' National Health Fund
South Central Laborers' Health & Welfare Fund
Southeastern Pipetrades Health & Welfare Fund
Telamon Corporation Health Reimbursement Arrangement*
The ARC of Delaware County*
UFCW Local 1262 and Employers Health & Welfare Fund
United Cerebral Palsy of Ulster County, Inc*
Vincent B Zaninovich & Sons, Inc.
Wayne ARC Standalone HRA Section 105 Plan*
Wildwood Program*
Allied Welfare Fund
Becker County Post-Retirement Health Care Savings Plan*
Becker County VEBA*
FIDUCIA*
Triple-S Salud, Inc.
B. R. Company
Britz Companies, ET AL
Century Health and Wellness Benefit Plan and Trust
EBSA Foundation
Encore Enterprises
Faurecia USA Holdings
Goodwill Industries of Kentucky, Inc.
Minnesota Cement Masons Health and Welfare Fund
Plumbers Local Union No. 690 of Philadelphia and Vicinity Health Plan
Robert Heath Trucking Inc
Securitas Security Services USA, Inc.
Sunwest Fruit Company, Inc
The Louis Berger Group, Inc.
United Food & Commercial Workers Unions and Employers Midwest Health Benefits Fund
WD Young& Sons, Inc.
Atlantis Casino Resort Spa
United Food and Commercial Workers and Employers Arizona
Act Trust Mini-Med Plan
Allen's Family Food
Anderson Media Corporation
Blasters, Drillers & Miners Union Local No. 29 Welfare Fund
Care Initiatives, Inc.
Cement and Concrete Workers District Council Welfare Fund Plan
COARC*
Construction Workers Local 147 Welfare Fund
Crystal Run Healthcare
Diamondback Management Services, LTD
Freeman Metal Products
Hardwick Clothes, Inc.
Hronis, Inc.
International Union of Bricklayers & Allied Craftworkers
Isaacson Isaacson Seridan & Fountain, LLP
Katy Industries, Inc.
Landscape, Irrigation and Lawn Sprinkler Industry Health and Welfare Plan and Trust
Local 298 Health Benefit Fund Plan
Local 803 Health and Welfare Fund
Louisiana Laborers Health and Welfare Fund
M.A. Mortenson
Maple Knoll Communities
Marshall Durbin Food Corporation
Minnesota Teamsters Construction Division
Name Brand, Inc.
Oklahoma Goodwill Industries
PepsiCo, Inc
Plumbers & Pipefitters Local Union 823 Health & Welfare Fund
Plumbers & Steamfitters Local No. 6 Health and Welfare Fund
Regent Care Center
Rice Food Markets, Inc.
Rice Food Markets, Inc.
Ricker Oil Company
Skilled Health Care
Southwestern Teamsters Security Fund
Teamsters Local 445 Welfare Plan
Teamsters Local 210 Affiliated Health and Insurance Fund
Teamsters Welfare Fund of Northern New Jersey Local 1723
The Durango Herald
The Talbots, Inc
Town of Frisco Medical Plan
Tudor Ranch
UNITE HERE Local 74 Welfare and Dental Trust
United Employees Health Plans
United Food and Commercial Workers Union Local 1000 and Kroger Dallas Health and Welfare Plan
United Service Employees Union, Local 377, RWDSU, UFCW
WageWorks, Inc
IBEW Local 613 and Contributing Employers Family Health Plan (Union)
Advantage Benefits Company, LLC
Aerospace Contractors' Trust**
AJFC Community Action Plan**
Altisource Portfolio Solutions
American Heritage Life Insurance Company
Americare Properties, Inc.
AMN Healthcare
Andrews Transport L.P.**
Anoka Hennepin Credit Union* **
APWU Health Plan Conversion Plan
Aspen Snowmass**
ATCO Rubber Products, Inc
Baylor County Hospital District
Belk Farms**
Bricklayers Local 1 of MD, VA and DC
Cardon & Associates, Inc**
Catholic Charities of the Diocese of Ogdensburg
Central Mills**
Civil Service Bar Association Security Benefit Fund**
Cotton Belt Inc.**
CPC Logistics Health & Welfare Plan**
Delmarva United Food and Commercial Workers**
Dole Food Company**
EchoStar**
First Acceptance Corporation
Fontanese Folts Aubrecht Ernst Architects, PC**
Forest Products Inc. Group Health Plan**
Fruhauf Uniform Direct Labor
Golden State Bulb Growers, Inc.**
Greater Kansas City Laborers Welfare Fund**
Grower's Transport LLC
Heartland Automotive**
Helfman Enterprises, Inc.**
Hoosier Stamping and Manufacturing Corp.
Horizon Bay Realty LLC**
I.B.E.W. Local 1249 Insurance Fund**
Ingomar Packing Company, LLC
Integra Healthcare, Inc. (Integrity Home Care)**
International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers**
International Brotherhood of Trade Unions Health and Welfare Fund - Local 713
International Union of Operating Engineers Local 295-295C Welfare Trust Fund**
International union of Operating Engineers, Local Union Number 137**
Iron Workers Local Union #28 Health and Welfare Fund**
Lamanuzzi & Pantaleo**
Living Resources**
Local 1102 Amalgamated Welfare Fund
Local 1102 Health & Benefit Fund
Local 1102 Welfare Fund-- Lerner Employees
Local 272 Welfare Fund**
Local 338 Affiliated Benefit Funds
Madelia Community Hospital**
Max Homes, Loc**
Medical Development Corporation**
Mesa Air Group**
Mesa Packing**
Michigan Conference of Teamsters Welfare Fund**
Minnesota and North Dakota Bricklayers and Allied Craftworkers**
Mission Linen Supply
NFI Industries
Operating Engineers Local 835 Health and Welfare Fund
Opportunity Resources, Inc. Health and Welfare Plan
Orange County AHRC* **
Orscheln Industries
Pacific Risk Management**
Pearson Candy Company
Pinnacle PRM**
Plumbers and Pipefitters Local 430 Health and Welfare Fund**
Progressive Logistics Services**
Pure Air Filter Sales & Service**
Rancho Maria PRM**
Reiter Affiliated Companies**
Retail, Wholesale & Dept. Store Union Local 1034 Welfare Fund
Rio Farms PRM**
Sensient Technologies Corp.
Service Employees International Union Local 1 Cleveland Welfare Fund
SFN Group
Sheet Metal Workers Funds of Local Union 38**
SMWIA 28**
Southeast OBGYN, PC* **
Southern CA Pipe Trades Trust Fund
Southern Operators Health Fund**
Stonebridge Hospitality Associates**
Sun Healthcare Group, Inc.
Teamsters Local 522 Welfare Fund Roofers Division
Teamsters Local Union 72 Welfare Fund**
Telesis Management Corporation
Texas Carpenters and Millwrights Health and Welfare Fund
The Mentor Network
The Wada Farms, Inc.
The Wilks Group, Inc. dba Ashley Furniture Homestore
The Wright Travel Agency**
Town of Grand Island* **
Trans-System, Inc.
True Leaf Farms**
UFCW Local 371 Amalgamated Welfare Fund**
United Crafts Benefits Fund**
United Food & Commercial Workers Unions and Employers Local No. 348 Health & Welfare Fund**
United Food and Commercial Workers Local 1445 New Hampshire
United Food and Commercial Workers Local 1459 and Contributing Employers Health and Welfare Fund**
United Food and Commercial Workers Local 464a**
United Food and Commercial Workers Local 911**
Varsity Contractors, Inc.
Waffle House
Weckworth Manufacturing**
Western Express, Inc.
Western Harvesting PRM Health Plan**
WG Yates and Sons Construction Company**
World Class Automotive**
Yukon-Kuskokwim Health Corporation**
Alaska Pipe Trade U.A. Local 367 Health and Security Trust**
Amalgamated National Health Fund
American Farms, PRM Health Plan**
American Growers Cooling, PRM Health Plan**
AUTO, LP, dba AutoInc. Health Benefit Plan**
Better Way Partners, LLC**
Big Valley Labor, PRM Health Plan**
CB Harvesting, PRM Health Plan**
City of Rockwall**
Cocopah Nurseries, Inc.
Express Harvesting, PRM Health Plan**
Fallen Oak Packing, PRM Health Plan**
FirstCarolinaCare Insurance Company on behalf of Longworth Industries
Foot Locker, Inc.**
Fresh Express
G&H Farms, PRM Health Plan**
Gill Ranch, PRM Health Plan**
Gill Transport, PRM Health Plan**
Gills Onions, PRM Health Plan**
Green Valley Farm Supply, PRM Health Plan**
Greencroft Communities
Growers Express, PRM Health Plan**
Hall Management Group, Inc.**
IH Services**
Independent Group Home Living Program, Inc.
King City Nursery, PRM Health Plan**
Meijer Health Benefits Plan/Primary Care Option
Mission Ranches, PRM Health Plan**
Moore's Retread & Tire of the Ark-La-Tex, Inc.
NOITU Insurance Trust Fund**
Payroll Solutions
Plumbers and Pipefitters Local No. 630 Welfare Fund
Seco Packing
Transcorr
United Food and Commercial Workers Union Local 1000
United Wire, Metal & Machine Health & Welfare Fund**
Western Growers Assurance Trust
Wisconsin United Food & Commercial Workers Unions and Employers Health Plan**
1199SEIU Greater New York Benefit Fund
A. Duda & Sons, Inc.
Adecco Group, Inc.
Biomedic Corporation
Buffets, Inc.
Carington Health System
Cleveland Bakers Teamsters
Club Chef LLC
Columbia Sussex Mgmt, LLC
CRST International Inc.
Darr Equipment, Co.
DC Cement Masons Welfare Fund
Deaconess Long Term Care
Diamond Comic Distributors, Inc.
ECOM Atlantic, Inc.
FW Walton, Inc.
G4S Secure Solutions
GC Services, L.P. & First Community Bancshares, Inc.
Guardsmark, LLC
Indiana Teamsters Health Benefits Fund
Knox County Association for Retarded Citizens
Laundry and Dry Cleaning Workers Local No. 52
Mars Super Markets, Inc.
MPS Group, Inc.
Nexion Health
Noodles & Company
Pharmaca Integrative Pharmacy
Quality Integrated Services, Inc.
RE Rabalais Constructors, LTD
RREMC LLC
Security Forces Inc.
Shirkey Nursing
Social Service Employees Union Local 371
Spindle, Cooling, & Warehouse
Strauss Discount Auto
Sunburst Hospitality
Susser Holding Corp
Telescope Casual Furniture
Teletech Holdings, Inc.
The Brinkman Corporation
The LDF Companies
United Food and Commercial Workers Union (Mount Laurel, NJ)
United Food and Commercial Workers Union Local 1459
Universal Orlando
Valley Services, Inc.
United Food and Commercial Workers and Participating Employers Interstate Health and Welfare Fund
Protocol Marketing Group
Sasnak
Star Tek
Adventist Care Centers
B.E.S.T of NY
Boskovich Farms, Inc
Café Enterprises, Inc.
Capital District Physicians
FleetPride, Inc.
Gallegos Corp
Hensley Industries, Inc.
Jeffords Steel and Engineering
Laborers' International Union of North America Local Union No. 616 Health and Welfare Plan
O.K. Industries
Service Employees Benefit Fund
Sun Pacific Farming Coop
SunWorld International, LLC
UFCW Allied Trade Health & Welfare Trust
United Food and Commercial Workers Union Local 1995
HCR Manor Care
IBEW No.915
Integra BMS for Culp, Inc.
New England Health Care Employees Welfare Fund †
Wiliamson-Dickie Manufacturing Company
Aegis Security Insurance Company †
Alliance One Tobacco
Asbestos Workers Local 53 Welfare Fund
Assurant Health (2nd Application)
Captain Elliot's Party Boats
Carlson Restaurants
CH Guenther & Son
CKM Industries dba Miller Environmental
Caribbean Workers’ Voluntary Employees’ Beneficiary Health and Welfare Plan †
Darden Restaurants
Duarte Nursery
Employees Security Fund
Florida Trowel Trades
Ingles Markets
Meijer
O'Reilly Auto Parts
Plumbers & Pipefitters Local 123 Welfare Fund
Sun Belt
UFCW Local 227
Uncle Julio's
United Group
US Imaging
Vino Farms
AdvantaStaff, Inc. †
Agricare
Alaska Seafood
American Fidelity
Convergys
Darensberries
Gowan Company
Greystar
Macayo Restaurants
Periodical Services
UniFirst
Universal Forest Products
UFCW Maximus Local 455
American Habilitation Services, Inc. †
GuideStone Financial Resources
Local 25 SEIU
MAUSER Corp.
Preferred Care, Inc.
Ruby Tuesday
The Dixie Group, Inc.
UFCW Local 1262
Whelan Security Company
AMF Bowling Worldwide
Assisted Living Concepts
Case & Associates
GPM Investments
Grace Living Centers
Mountaire Corporation †
Swift Spinning
Belmont Village
Caliber Services
Cracker Barrel
DISH Network
Groendyke Transport, Inc
Pocono Medical Center
Regis Corporation
The Pictsweet Co.
Diversified Interiors
Local 802 Musicians Health Fund
MCS Life Insurance Company †
The Buccaneer
CIGNA
Greater Metropolitan Hotel
Local 17 Hospitality Benefit Fund
GSC-ILA
The Allied Industries Health Fund
Harden Healthcare
Vernon Sheltered Workshop, Inc. Health and Welfare Plan #501
I.U.P.A.T
Sanderson Plumbing Products, Inc.
Transport Workers
United Federation of Teachers Welfare Fund
Aegis
Aetna
Allflex
Baptist Retirement
BCS Insurance
Cryogenic
Fowler Packing Co.
Guy C. Lee Mfg.
HealthPort
Jack in the Box
Maritime Association
Maverick County
Metropolitan D.C. Paving Industry Employees Health and Welfare Fund
PMPS-ILA
PS-ILA
QK/DRD (Denny's)
Reliance Standard
Tri-Pak
United Agricultural Benefit Trust ††

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2900475/posts

After roughly 1 minute on Google. Never heard of this site, but I'm sure you'll find an issue with it since it doesn't start with huffington or moveon or appear to be pro-Obama, and I'm sure every company on that list was made up by some random guy.

Are you going to answer my question now? I'll ask again, just in case you forgot what it was:

Have any waivers been given out for Obamacare?

And a couple bonus questions too for extra points, that you'll never answer:

Why should waivers be given to anybody if it's such a great law?

Why do people have to be forced into it if it's such a great law?

Ha ha ha ha ha. Freep as a source. I'm sure you've never heard of it. I get it all now.

[Methais]

Ha ha ha ha ha. Freep as a source. I'm sure you've never heard of it. I get it all now.

Yes or no time again...

Are you saying that some/most/all of the companies on that list were just made up, and weren't really given a waiver?

[Tenlaar]

Yes or no time again...

Are you saying that some/most/all of the companies on that list were just made up, and weren't really given a waiver?

How many of those companies are Obama's buddies, which was your initial claim before you realized it was retarded?

[Warriorbird]

Yes or no time again...

Are you saying that some/most/all of the companies on that list were just made up, and weren't really given a waiver?

I'm mocking you from posting your "information" from the Republican version of Daily Kos. Get with the program.

[Methais]

I'm mocking you from posting your "information" from the Republican version of Daily Kos. Get with the program.

You're not gonna answer the question are you? Why is that?

[cwolff]

After roughly 1 minute on Google. Never heard of this site, but I'm sure you'll find an issue with it since it doesn't start with huffington or moveon or appear to be pro-Obama, and I'm sure every company on that list was made up by some random guy.

Are you going to answer my question now? I'll ask again, just in case you forgot what it was:

Have any waivers been given out for Obamacare?

And a couple bonus questions too for extra points, that you'll never answer:

Why should waivers be given to anybody if it's such a great law?

Why do people have to be forced into it if it's such a great law?

Whenever Methais gets to feeling insecure about losing an argument he posts a wall of text. It's like he thinks that if he can't win on ideas he may win on sheer volume of characters.

Since you obviously have a command of google, just use that search engine to answer your own question. I've already answered it on these threads more than once. You could probably google that too.

This probably will not help you though since you're framing your argument with these biased If/Then statements. This tells us that you really have zero interest in gaining an understanding but that you are only interested in argument for it's own sake.

[Warriorbird]

You're not gonna answer the question are you? Why is that?

Clearly I ought to just link something from Daily Kos. That'd be super reputable.

[Methais]

Whenever Methais gets to feeling insecure about losing an argument he posts a wall of text. It's like he thinks that if he can't win on ideas he may win on sheer volume of characters.

Since you obviously have a command of google, just use that search engine to answer your own question. I've already answered it on these threads more than once. You could probably google that too.

This probably will not help you though since you're framing your argument with these biased If/Then statements. This tells us that you really have zero interest in gaining an understanding but that you are only interested in argument for it's own sake.

Coming from Backlash's other account, this is funny.

[Methais]

Clearly I ought to just link something from Daily Kos. That'd be super reputable.

Do you have a penis?

[4a6c1]

I'm mocking you from posting your "information" from the Republican version of Daily Kos. Get with the program.

But but, Will Dangerfield, the anonymous pseudonym promised these were hard facts! Obama bad. Republicans good. Rah rah.

[cwolff]

Coming from Backlash's other account, this is funny.

You're doing it again. Why are you so afraid to address the actual questions posed? Of course you're the guy who won't pay his ER bill because you're going to show those stupid Doctors who's the boss right? I guess it's unrealistic to expect that, at this point in your life, you're capable of elevating your debate.

[Methais]

Why are you so afraid to address the actual questions posed?

Ask WB that. He refuses to answer a question that only requires a one word answer.


Of course you're the guy who won't pay his ER bill because you're going to show those stupid Doctors who's the boss right?

When you go see a doctor, he asks about nausea, you tell him you've had no nausea, he gives you a shot, tells you after it's for nausea, then wants you to pay $400 for it...yeah. You might like it without lube, but normal people don't.

Let's say you called a plumber to fix a broken pipe under your sink, and instead he installed a new toilet in the bathroom and billed you $400 for it. I assume you would happily pay it without so much as even a grumble, right?

Back on topic, since apparently nobody has gotten an Obamacare waiver, I guess Pelosi was just making shit up too...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/10/28/pelosi_defends_obamacare_waivers_to_1800_firms_the yre_small_companies.html

I'm sure the video in the link was fabricated by racist voice actors and special effects artists, and isn't actually Pelosi speaking about those "small" companies that got waivers, like McDonald's.

Full version if anyone wants to sit through several minutes of other shit:
http://www.conservativerefocus.com/blog5.php/2011/10/29/pelosi-defends-over-1-800-obamacare-waivers-they-re-very-small-companies-like-mcdonalds

[Atlanteax]

You're doing it again. Why are you so afraid to address the actual questions posed? Of course you're the guy who won't pay his ER bill because you're going to show those stupid Doctors who's the boss right? I guess it's unrealistic to expect that, at this point in your life, you're capable of elevating your debate.

This can be just like the debate in Congress if Methais says he'll answer cwolff if and only if WB gives a strictly yes/no answer. GRIDLOCK!! SHUTDOWN THE PC.

[cwolff]

Ask WB that. He refuses to answer a question that only requires a one word answer.



When you go see a doctor, he asks about nausea, you tell him you've had no nausea, he gives you a shot, tells you after it's for nausea, then wants you to pay $400 for it...yeah. You might like it without lube, but normal people don't.

Let's say you called a plumber to fix a broken pipe under your sink, and instead he installed a new toilet in the bathroom and billed you $400 for it. I assume you would happily pay it without so much as even a grumble, right?

Back on topic, since apparently nobody has gotten an Obamacare waiver, I guess Pelosi was just making shit up too...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/10/28/pelosi_defends_obamacare_waivers_to_1800_firms_the yre_small_companies.html

I'm sure the video in the link was fabricated by racist voice actors and special effects artists , and isn't actually Pelosi.

Full version if anyone wants to sit through several minutes of other shit:
http://www.conservativerefocus.com/blog5.php/2011/10/29/pelosi-defends-over-1-800-obamacare-waivers-they-re-very-small-companies-like-mcdonalds

Can you re-post the statements that there have been no ACA waivers? I don't recall reading any post which says this. I've only seen your posts saying some hysterical bullshit like "if it's the best law ever then why were there waivers!"

If you don't want to pay your bills, don't! I don't give a shit. That doesn't mean anyone here wants to hear your self righteous excuses for why it's ok for you to be a deadbeat.


This can be just like the debate in Congress if Methais says he'll answer cwolff if and only if WB gives a strictly yes/no answer. GRIDLOCK!! SHUTDOWN THE PC.

No shit. He ought to run for office. He might want to run as a democrat though. The numbers for the republicans just continue to get worse.


Disapproval of congressional Republicans’ budget wrangling after a weeklong shutdown has shot up to 70 percent, with 51 percent disapproving “strongly,” according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

[Warriorbird]

Do you have a penis?

Probably the gayest question I've had asked me on the PC in years.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n78/oliex06/GTA%204/gtaiv2008-12-0920-44-07-96.jpg

[Methais]

Can you re-post the statements that there have been no ACA waivers? I don't recall reading any post which says this. I've only seen your posts saying some hysterical bullshit like "if it's the best law ever then why were there waivers!"

If you don't want to pay your bills, don't! I don't give a shit. That doesn't mean anyone here wants to hear your self righteous excuses for why it's ok for you to be a deadbeat.

Yeah, I'm totally a deaddeat, considering that's the only bill I've ever not paid in my entire life, nor have I ever even been a day late on a bill in my life.

Let's try this again, since reading comprehension clearly isn't your strong point...

Let's say you called a plumber to fix a broken pipe under your sink, and instead he installed a new toilet in the bathroom and billed you $400 for it. I assume you would happily pay it without so much as even a grumble, right?

What is it with you people tapdancing around any question you're asked anyway?
NOTE: In before "you people" race card is played


Probably the gayest question I've had asked me on the PC in years.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n78/oliex06/GTA%204/gtaiv2008-12-0920-44-07-96.jpg

Still incapable of answering a yes or no question.

OFF TOPIC: I got a random call from Brucie in GTA V last night. I had no idea they carried him over too, I thought it was just Packie.

[4a6c1]

.............

That character says Wo.

Which means Me or I.

Dumbest tattoo ever.

Edit: Mandarin Chinese

[Thondalar]

.............

That character says Wo.

Which means Me or I.

Dumbest tattoo ever.

Edit: Mandarin Chinese

I actually makes perfect sense if you've played GTA4 and know the character of Brucie.

He's a megalomaniac of the first order, completely infatuated with himself.

Nice touch from the designers, imo.

[cwolff]

Yeah, I'm totally a deaddeat, considering that's the only bill I've ever not paid in my entire life, nor have I ever even been a day late on a bill in my life.

Let's try this again, since reading comprehension clearly isn't your strong point...

Let's say you called a plumber to fix a broken pipe under your sink, and instead he installed a new toilet in the bathroom and billed you $400 for it. I assume you would happily pay it without so much as even a grumble, right?

What is it with you people tapdancing around any question you're asked anyway?
NOTE: In before "you people" race card is played



Still incapable of answering a yes or no question.

OFF TOPIC: I got a random call from Brucie in GTA V last night. I had no idea they carried him over too, I thought it was just Packie.

I noticed you're still trying to establish some moral high ground for not paying your bill. As I said before I don't give a shit if you pay or not. I also don't give a shit what your excuse is.

You want a yes or no answer to the question "Were any waivers granted for ACA?" Is that correct? Can you post the statement that apparently someone here made to the effect that there were no waivers? I don't believe anyone, ever said that.

It seems that your confusion comes from first stating "Obama gave his buddies waivers" to which people responded by asking you to prove that or just that it is not correct. Instead of addressing their concerns you proved that waivers were granted. Again, the idea of waivers has never been in doubt.

One good thing to note is that you are no longer talking about "exemptions" and are now using the word waiver. I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks.

[4a6c1]

I actually makes perfect sense if you've played GTA4 and know the character of Brucie.

He's a megalomaniac of the first order, completely infatuated with himself.

Nice touch from the designers, imo.

There are better ways to do this. Selfishness or business mentality is a popular undercultural tone for young Chinese. Huozhe (To Live) means a selfish life or life for once self and it's a common tattoo in mainland china. Even Wo shi de (I am me, Myself) would have made more sense. Putting Wo out of context of a sentence makes no sense, you know? Out of context it means nothing. It looks really dumb and it's only something a native English speaker with no knowledge of the Chinese language would do to look cool.

[Thondalar]

There are better ways to do this. Selfishness or business mentality is a popular undercultural tone for young Chinese. Huozhe (To Live) means a selfish life or life for once self and it's a common tattoo in mainland china. Even Wo shi de (I am me, Myself) would have made more sense. Putting Wo out of context of a sentence makes no sense, you know? Out of context it means nothing. It looks really dumb and it's only something a native English speaker with no knowledge of the Chinese language would do to look cool.

I don't disagree with any of this. I think if you go play some GTA 4 and hang out with Brucie, you'll see why your above statements fit perfectly. I believe even more now than at first this was a great move by the designers.

edit: By this I mean...that's exactly something that someone like Brucie would do. Putting the linguistically correct symbol or symbols on him would have been completely out of character. Brucie ain't got no time for researching that shit, he's gotta work on his lats, bro.

[cwolff]

There are better ways to do this. Selfishness or business mentality is a popular undercultural tone for young Chinese. Huozhe (To Live) means a selfish life or life for once self and it's a common tattoo in mainland china. Even Wo shi de (I am me, Myself) would have made more sense. Putting Wo out of context of a sentence makes no sense, you know? Out of context it means nothing. It looks really dumb and it's only something a native English speaker with no knowledge of the Chinese language would do to look cool.

It could be a subtle dig at all the people who get incorrectly translated chinese character tattoos.

[4a6c1]

...So Brucie is an idiot who gets tattoos in a language he doesn't understand or speak? Okay.

[Warriorbird]

.............

That character says Wo.

Which means Me or I.

Dumbest tattoo ever.

Edit: Mandarin Chinese


...So Brucie is an idiot who gets tattoos in a language he doesn't understand or speak? Okay.

For Brucie it is perfect. We all know guys like him.

[4a6c1]

It could be a subtle dig at all the people who get incorrectly translated chinese character tattoos.

You know what? Chinese people do it to. We have white trash that get Chinese tattoos that don't make sense? They have yellow trash (nongmings) that get English tattoos that don't make sense. We are two cultures that reflect each other in the worst of ways.

[4a6c1]

http://i.imgur.com/LA7OXTD.jpg

[Methais]

...So Brucie is an idiot who gets tattoos in a language he doesn't understand or speak? Okay.

The super short description of Brucie is a roided out narcissist that is totally oblivious to everything except his own awesomeness.


I noticed you're still trying to establish some moral high ground for not paying your bill. As I said before I don't give a shit if you pay or not. I also don't give a shit what your excuse is.

Once you answer my plumber analogy, then I might take you seriously. You won't though, because if you answered it honestly you would completely contradict yourself and look like an even bigger retard than you've already established yourself as.

[Tenlaar]

...look like an even bigger retard than you've already established yourself as.


...such as Obama giving waivers to his pals, for example?

Mmhmm.

[Parkbandit]

I want a source for Obama's "pals" getting waivers.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/may/20/obamacare-waiver-corruption-must-stop/

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/over-half-all-obamacare-waivers-given-union-members_561115.html

[Methais]

Mmhmm.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?86097-McCain-on-Fox-Defunding-Obamacare-is-not-achievable-Republicans-shutdown-government&p=1599196#post1599196

Also, just because it's an awesome mashup...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JHmvmYme-M

[Warriorbird]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/may/20/obamacare-waiver-corruption-must-stop/

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/over-half-all-obamacare-waivers-given-union-members_561115.html







An opinion article from the hugely biased Moonie newspaper

AND

an article from Bill Kristol's conservative magazine and blog with a bad link.

Cooking with gas there.

[Thondalar]

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?86097-McCain-on-Fox-Defunding-Obamacare-is-not-achievable-Republicans-shutdown-government&p=1599196#post1599196

Also, just because it's an awesome mashup...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JHmvmYme-M


ACA...it's got what plants crave.

[Parkbandit]

An opinion article from the hugely biased Moonie newspaper

AND

an article from Bill Kristol's conservative magazine and blog with a bad link.

Cooking with gas there.

Are you expecting the MSM to actually write about this?

You've been given the list. If you choose to deny it.. that's cool. You can live in blissful ignorance with Backlash who honestly believes the ACA will save the country billions of dollars.

[Methais]

Are you expecting the MSM to actually write about this?

You've been given the list. If you choose to deny it.. that's cool. You can live in blissful ignorance with Backlash who honestly believes the ACA will save the country billions of dollars.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fkIKmwbZQk

[Warriorbird]

Are you expecting the MSM to actually write about this?

You've been given the list. If you choose to deny it.. that's cool. You can live in blissful ignorance with Backlash who honestly believes the ACA will save the country billions of dollars.

I know one organization on the list, from the conservative version of Daily Kos, is wrong, already. Why would I trust the rest? I suspect that the list is of people who applied for a waiver. If the shoe was on the other foot you'd be having a field day. Would you seriously take a list from Daily Kos seriously? I think not.

[cwolff]

Are you expecting the MSM to actually write about this?

You've been given the list. If you choose to deny it.. that's cool. You can live in blissful ignorance with Backlash who honestly believes the ACA will save the country billions of dollars.

What point are you guys trying to make? That there were waivers granted, that waivers were only granted to Obama's buddies or something else?

[Back]

Are you expecting the MSM to actually write about this?

http://www.vh1.com/celebrity/bwe/images/2011/10/CHURCH-LADY-01-1319819361.jpg

[Thondalar]

Genuinely curious, but...where would one find a real list of companies that have been granted waivers?

I've always been opposed to ACA because the federal government has no business running healthcare, it's a humongous bill that's so convoluted the people who wrote it don't even know what it actually says, it's another Ponzi scheme like Medicare and Social Security that's unsustainable...any number of legitimate reasons. I haven't even got to the particulars yet...I tend to get stuck on silly things like principle.

Would the CBO publish such a thing? Or the White House itself?

[Tgo01]

Genuinely curious, but...where would one find a real list of companies that have been granted waivers?

I'm not sure but I think the whole point of which companies received waivers is pretty moot though since businesses with 50+ employees were all given a one year extension with complying with the law.

[Thondalar]

I'm not sure but I think the whole point of which companies received waivers is pretty moot though since businesses with 50+ employees were all given a one year extension with complying with the law.

Yeah. My company employs roughly 3 thousand people...before the extension the brass sent down a mandate to cut all hourlies to less than 30 hours per week.

I'm back to being allowed to give them 40 now, but...it's just a delay.

[Tgo01]

I'm back to being allowed to give them 40 now, but...it's just a delay.

Hey! It's called affordable healthcare. You watch your ass!

[ClydeR]

Fox News has learned that the emerging framework would raise the debt ceiling through February, and include a spending bill meant to last through Jan. 15.

Importantly, a tentative provision to repeal or delay the medical device tax in ObamaCare has been taken out, a senior Democratic aide said. But the proposal could include other modest items pertaining to ObamaCare, including income verification for those getting subsidies and a one-year delay of at least one obscure fee which had been sought by unions.

House Republicans are watching the negotiations play out, and according to sources still want to see provisions to strip ObamaCare subsidies for congressional staff. It's unclear where they will ultimately fall, but conservative members predicted a "huge fight" if McConnell "completely capitulates."

Negotiators are still tinkering with the framework, and the details could change.

More... (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/10/14/republicans-accuse-dems-overplaying-hand-as-budget-debate-shifts-to-sequester/)

Republicans are smart to restrict it to just a few months. When the clock runs out again in January, we can repeat the events of the last few weeks and get even more stuff we want.

[Parkbandit]

What point are you guys trying to make? That there were waivers granted, that waivers were only granted to Obama's buddies or something else?

I don't think anyone has made the leap that "ONLY" Obama's buddies received a waiver.

Nice try though, Jr.

[Back]

Republicans are smart to restrict it to just a few months. When the clock runs out again in January, we can repeat the events of the last few weeks and get even more stuff we want.

Yeah, not liking this move at all because we'll be doing this all over again in January. They need to stop fucking around and get the economy going.

[Parkbandit]

Yeah, not liking this move at all because we'll be doing this all over again in January. They need to stop fucking around and get the economy going.

What are you talking about? Obama fixed the economy back in 2009 the day he was inaugurated.

If you question this fact, you are a radical racist.

[Tgo01]

If you question this fact, you are a radical racist.

Racism is new?

[ClydeR]

Genuinely curious, but...where would one find a real list of companies that have been granted waivers?

You were wise to ask me because I have the answer right here. For the full list, click the link inside the article.


What they're referring to is the number of health insurance plans that the Department of Health and Human Services allowed to set lower annual caps (http://www.cms.gov/CCIIO/Resources/Files/approved_applications_for_waiver.html) -- temporarily -- on the total amount of medical bills they would pay for each subscriber. These include plans offered by 722 self-insured businesses, 417 groups of small employers joined in collective bargaining agreements, and 34 unions.

The Affordable Care Act requires insurers to phase out by 2014 the annual limits. The rule posed a challenge, however, to employers with "mini-med" plans, which charge extremely low premiums but offer truncated benefits and low annual caps. To keep workers from losing coverage altogether while their employers searched for an alternative, HHS granted waivers that let hundreds of mini-med plans keep lower caps in place until 2014.

In short, the rule enabled employers and their workers to keep until next year the plans they had before the law was passed, even though they didn't meet the new minimum standards. The move may have saved some employers and unions money, but it also kept workers from losing their coverage abruptly.

More... (http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-obamacare-waivers-exemptions-hyperbole-20131002,0,6344095.story)

[cwolff]

I don't think anyone has made the leap that "ONLY" Obama's buddies received a waiver.

Nice try though, Jr.


What part of "enforcement" does twisting certain aspects of a law for certain groups of people fall under, such as Obama giving waivers to his pals, for example?

Yo dumbass. Is this clear enough for you? That started the whole tangent about who got waivers, the wall of text and Methias evading/backpedaling from saying it's Obama's pals who got waivers.

Another thing, Dumbass, where did I say that anyone made the leap that "ONLY" Obama's buddies received a waiver. Since you quoted my post I figure you'd have read it but just in case you need to read it twice I'll post it below. It's a simple question and you fuckers won't even answer it. The only response is a poor attempt at misquoting me and some oblique reference to Back.


What point are you guys trying to make? That there were waivers granted, that waivers were only granted to Obama's buddies or something else?

[Thondalar]

You were wise to ask me because I have the answer right here. For the full list, click the link inside the article.

That was a list of people/organizations granted waivers for the Annual Limits requirement.

That's not what we're talking about. Where can I find an approved list of the companies granted full waivers for ACA?

[ClydeR]

Speaking of waivers..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyjnzJtQPD8&t=135

That's a video of Romney saying granting Obamacare waivers would his top priority on the first day of his administration. If it doesn't jump to the right spot, then skip ahead to 2:15.

[ClydeR]

That was a list of people/organizations granted waivers for the Annual Limits requirement.

That's not what we're talking about. Where can I find an approved list of the companies granted full waivers for ACA?

Ahh, sorry. I didn't understand the question. There are none.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Is it really that hard to type YES or NO?


WB has never once simply answered a question with a yes or no.

Which is why I put him on ignore. Same old shit every time - he'll latch onto some childish singularity (like the word "pals") and won't actually defend his ridiculous points of view. He's intentionally obtuse and contributes nothing. My only complaint would be you can't block quotes, which is unfortunate.

Never thought I'd ignore anyone, but sometimes you just have to accept you can't fix retarded.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Yeah, not liking this move at all because we'll be doing this all over again in January. They need to stop fucking around and get the economy going.

LMAO. Exactly what do you think they should do to "get the economy going"? What aren't we doing right now besides pass CRs until Obama bankrupts the country that you think we should be doing that'll change the economy?

[Thondalar]

Ahh, sorry. I didn't understand the question. There are none.

Oh. So what's this waiver business everyone keeps talking about?

[cwolff]

Oh. So what's this waiver business everyone keeps talking about?

http://heartland.org/policy-documents/six-types-obamacare-waivers and this is the White House link

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/12/10/truth-about-health-care-waivers

[Back]

LMAO. Exactly what do you think they should do to "get the economy going"? What aren't we doing right now besides pass CRs until Obama bankrupts the country that you think we should be doing that'll change the economy?

Well, hmm, lets see... um. How about not shutting down the government every time you don't get your way? Stop sequesters, fiscal cliffs, debt ceilings, all this talk thats making the people and market uneasy? Just a start.

Republicans seem intent on constantly creating fiscal crisis after crisis.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Well, hmm, lets see... um. How about not shutting down the government every time you don't get your way? Stop sequesters, fiscal cliffs, debt ceilings, all this talk thats making the people and market uneasy? Just a start.

Republicans seem intent on constantly creating fiscal crisis after crisis.

So just pass everything Obama wants and the market will fix itself? I thought we did that for the first two years of his presidency?

[Thondalar]

Well, hmm, lets see... um. How about not shutting down the government every time you don't get your way? Stop sequesters, fiscal cliffs, debt ceilings, all this talk thats making the people and market uneasy? Just a start.

Republicans seem intent on constantly creating fiscal crisis after crisis.

Because we are a fiscal crisis.

If you're not completely outraged, you're economically ignorant.

[Back]

Because we are a fiscal crisis.

If you're not completely outraged, you're economically ignorant.

Perhaps you can explain for those of us who are economically ignorant, as you say, what the crisis is?

[Tenlaar]

Perhaps you can explain for those of us who are economically ignorant, as you say, what the crisis is?

Poor people, obviously.

[Back]

Poor people, obviously.

Right? I am dubious of people who tell me I don't understand something if they can't explain something to me.

[Thondalar]

Right? I am dubious of people who tell me I don't understand something if they can't explain something to me.

You need someone to explain to you that 17 trillion dollars in debt is a bad thing?

[Back]

You need someone to explain to you that 17 trillion dollars in debt is a bad thing?

Isn't that related to G D P?

[Tgo01]

Isn't that related to G D P?

Yes and for the longest time people said as long as the debt is under 100% of GDP then everything should be okay. We're over 100% GDP now.

Although as much as it pains me to say I agree with you that I don't think our debt is a problem yet. Although obviously something needs to be done because eventually it's going to be a huge problem.

[Thondalar]

Yes and for the longest time people said as long as the debt is under 100% of GDP then everything should be okay. We're over 100% GDP now.

Although as much as it pains me to say I agree with you that I don't think our debt is a problem yet. Although obviously something needs to be done because eventually it's going to be a huge problem.

It was under a trillion dollars 30 years ago. It was 10 trillion 6 years ago. It's almost 18 trillion now. Notice a trend?

[Tgo01]

It was under a trillion dollars 30 years ago. It was 10 trillion 6 years ago. It's almost 18 trillion now. Notice a trend?

The numbers are getting bigger?

[Back]

It was under a trillion dollars 30 years ago. It was 10 trillion 6 years ago. It's almost 18 trillion now. Notice a trend?

So it is your opinion that it is the American government that is the cause of this and not privately owned banks?

[Tgo01]

Although as much as it pains me to say I agree with you


So it is your opinion that it is the American government that is the cause of this and not privately owned banks?

Well that didn't last long.

[Thondalar]

So it is your opinion that it is the American government that is the cause of this and not privately owned banks?

Of our national debt? Yes.

[Back]

Of our national debt? Yes.

So you think our government controls private banks?

[Tgo01]

So you think our government controls private banks?

What the hell are you talking about?

[Shaps]

So it is your opinion that it is the American government that is the cause of this and not privately owned banks?

Back.. lol.. man.. haha.. don't even have a response for that.

[Back]

Back.. lol.. man.. haha.. don't even have a response for that.

Yeah, you don"t think it is the other way around?

Get real.

[Tgo01]

Is Back high right now?

[Warriorbird]

Is Back high right now?

Some conservative conspiracy theorists argue the same stuff.

A better claim is that a series of billionaires and corporations with different policy alignments swing elections.

[Tgo01]

Some conservative conspiracy theorists argue the same stuff.

You keep mentioning Republicans/conservatives in conversations where they weren't being discussed before. Why is that? Do you think people are going to change their mind because of you mentioning that?

[Warriorbird]

You keep mentioning Republicans/conservatives in conversations where they weren't being discussed before. Why is that? Do you think people are going to change their mind because of you mentioning that?

Not at all. Merely the suggestion that our country's in bad shape in general, not in specific. You keep obsessing with Obama all the time. He's merely one part of a tremendously problematic system. On average over the period of his Presidency, board conservatives mention him more than anything else. Over and over and over and over. This was surprisingly not the same with liberals and Bush. But OBAMA! Dogpiling on Back is a similar trend.

[Back]

The people who control you are the bankers. You are nothing more than livestock. A percentage margin. A tick on the marker.

[Tgo01]

Dogpiling on Back is a similar trend.

When Back says something so stupid that banks are the reason why the federal government has a 17 trillion dollar debt I think people are justified to call him on his bullshit.

[Warriorbird]

When Back says something so stupid that banks are the reason why the federal government has a 17 trillion dollar debt I think people are justified to call him on his bullshit.

Fair enough. What do I do about the whole series of people who can't quite seem to get that the but/for causation of the government shutdown is the Republican Party and the Tea Party in particular?

[Parkbandit]

What point are you guys trying to make? That there were waivers granted, that waivers were only granted to Obama's buddies or something else?

No. No one has said that only waivers were granted to Obama's buddies.

No one except you.. in a very weak attempt to make a retarded hyperbolic point.

I answered this before, but clearly you needed a "yes" or a "no" to figure it out.

[Parkbandit]

The people who control you are the bankers. You are nothing more than livestock. A percentage margin. A tick on the marker.

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt9/Dragonpen61/Animations/bth_Clown.gif

[Parkbandit]

Is Back high right now?

Either he is always high, every moment of his posting career.. or he's really that stupid.

I'm going with the second.. since I doubt he could afford that much weed.

[AnticorRifling]

Passed. Signed into law. Upheld by Supreme Court. Time to stop being whining bitches and move on. There are plenty of other issues they can actually make some headway on. I am pretty sure that's what he's getting at.

Can you think of anything else in or history that was signed into law, upheld by the Supreme Court but later overturned? Should we have stopped being whining bitches and moved on for those issues? I can think of a few, what can you come up with? Apply your statement and see how that works in your head.

[Warriorbird]

Can you think of anything else in or history that was signed into law, upheld by the Supreme Court but later overturned? Should we have stopped being whining bitches and moved on for those issues? I can think of a few, what can you come up with? Apply your statement and see how that works in your head.

As pragmatic as you are are you really advocating shutting the system down to prevent a Republican created healthcare plan? Every single time we have a disagreement and a party doesn't have the votes?

[AnticorRifling]

As pragmatic as you are are you really advocating shutting the system down to prevent a Republican created healthcare plan? Every single time we have a disagreement and a party doesn't have the votes?

No where did I say that did I? I said calling people whiny bitches on the basis of "uh hello it's law so it's obviously right" is probably a horrible fucking argument.

[Warriorbird]

No where did I say that did I? I said calling people whiny bitches on the basis of "uh hello it's law so it's obviously right" is probably a horrible fucking argument.

I do agree with that. We've passed a lot of terrible laws and will continue to do so.

[Atlanteax]

So you think our government controls private banks?

This just in.

Back believes that private banks are responsible for the amount of $$$ that the government spends on the military, social programs, debt payments, social security, federal workers, etc etc.

[Atlanteax]

Fair enough. What do I do about the whole series of people who can't quite seem to get that the but/for causation of the government shutdown is the Republican Party and the Tea Party in particular?

What about the whole series of people who can't quite seem to get that the but/for causation of the government shutdown is the Democratic Party and Reid/Obama's refusal to reduce government spending in particular?

[Atlanteax]

I do agree with that. We've passed a lot of terrible laws and will continue to do so.

Okay, good to see that WB admits that ACA is a terrible law.

[Warriorbird]

Okay, good to see that WB admits that ACA is a terrible law.

I consider it relatively benign, honestly. But then again some Republicans think laws their party created are terrible laws.


What about the whole series of people who can't quite seem to get that the but/for causation of the government shutdown is the Democratic Party and Reid/Obama's refusal to reduce government spending in particular?

Your intellectual dishonesty is stunning.

[Parkbandit]

I consider it relatively benign, honestly. But then again some Republicans think laws their party created are terrible laws.

You consider control of 20% of our economy relatively benign?

ACA is a terrible law that was passed with some backdoor deals that is designed to fail... and guess who is the only one that can save us from it?

5794

[Methais]

http://www.vh1.com/celebrity/bwe/images/2011/10/CHURCH-LADY-01-1319819361.jpg

Convenient? Really?

Who the fuck manages to fail at Church Lady-ism?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmwqnqL3Hbg


Yo dumbass. Is this clear enough for you? That started the whole tangent about who got waivers, the wall of text and Methias evading/backpedaling from saying it's Obama's pals who got waivers.

Yo dumbass, the main point of the waiver thing, buddies or not, was that the original law was supposed to apply to everybody when it was passed and "approved" by the Supreme Court.

I'm not surprised that you retards chose to focus on the less important part of it though.

Here Backlash, let me post it again, minus the "buddies" part, and then you can explain to me why it's such a false statement.


What part of "enforcement" does twisting certain aspects of a law for certain groups of people fall under?

Also since you don't know the difference between a long list and a wall of text, allow me to show you what a wall of text really looks like.

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/176/9/5/wall_of_text_by_zach205-d54tmj1.png


Well, hmm, lets see... um. How about not shutting down the government every time you don't get your way? Stop sequesters, fiscal cliffs, debt ceilings, all this talk thats making the people and market uneasy? Just a start.

Republicans seem intent on constantly creating fiscal crisis after crisis.

Democrats shut down the government. Twist it around all you want, but it's a fact. Dems (including Obama) then said they refuse to negotiate. Clearly that's the fault of racist republicans.

Wasn't the sequester Obama's idea originally, even though Chris Matthews told you to think the opposite?

Remember when Obama said raising the debt ceiling was irresponsible and unpatriotic when he was trashing on Bush before he got elected? Why is it ok now?

Get his cock out of your mouth already. Isn't the thrill up your leg good enough?


So it is your opinion that it is the American government that is the cause of this and not privately owned banks?

Tell us why it's the fault of banks and not the government.


On average over the period of his Presidency, board conservatives mention him more than anything else. Over and over and over and over. This was surprisingly not the same with liberals and Bush. But OBAMA! Dogpiling on Back is a similar trend.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL



I consider it relatively benign, honestly. But then again some Republicans think laws their party created are terrible laws.


That's because a bad law is a bad law, regardless of whether it has a D or R next to it, which is something people like Backlash can't grasp.

If a law were passed where everyone had to be assraped 3 times a day by red hot dildo dipped in broken glass while elephants bukkake the fuck out of you, Back would defend it tirelessly as long as it was put into law by a democrat.

[Methais]

And just because.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzdi4bzhdUo

[Methais]

McCain on Fox: Defunding Obamacare is not achievable, Republicans shutdown government (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?86097-McCain-on-Fox-Defunding-Obamacare-is-not-achievable-Republicans-shutdown-government&p=1599507#post1599507)

Every time I start to like you, you say something 100% retarded and partisan like "Democrats shut down the govt." You know that shit isn't true, or you have replaced all your blood with GOP kool-aid. Grow up.

Your rep is pretty easy to spot. Mostly because you can't complete a sentence without mentioning kool-aid.

But just for fun, tell us how it was republicans that shut down the government, despite Reid shitting on everything they offered and refusing to negotiate on anything.

Bonus points if you can do it without mentioning an otherwise refreshing and delicious beverage.

[AnticorRifling]

And just because.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzdi4bzhdUo

That was pretty amazing. And the fact that it was a balloon knot production made me laugh.

[Parkbandit]

If a law were passed where everyone had to be assraped 3 times a day by red hot dildo dipped in broken glass while elephants bukkake the fuck out of you, Back would defend it tirelessly as long as it was put into law by a democrat.

In Backlash's defense.. I can honestly see him getting behind this legislation with real gusto.

[ClydeR]

Oh. So what's this waiver business everyone keeps talking about?

I know of four types of waivers that have been issued.

The one everybody is talking about in this thread is the one year waiver on annual caps for about 1,000 different employers who applied for waivers. I posted about it earlier in this thread.


The most important waiver is the postponement of the employer mandate (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?83639-Republicans-Accuse-Obama-of-Being-Too-Pro-Business) for one year. Starting in 2015, instead of 2014 as originally scheduled, businesses with 50 or more full time employees must either provide health insurance to their employees or pay a fine.


The least important waiver economically, but very important politically, is the permission for members of Congress and their staff to buy insurance policies on the exchange even though the cost is subsidized by their employer. I explained it in detail in another thread.


Some states have been given partial Obamacare waivers relating to insurance rate setting and the so-called "medical loss ratio (http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/161209-hhs-grants-healthcare-waivers-to-nevada-new-hampshire)." That's the deal that started in 2012 where you got a check in the mail if your insurance company charged you too much for insurance premiums. Those states have been allowed to have ratios of around 70% to 75% for one to three years, instead of the 80% ratio otherwise required. It's mostly in weird states like Nevada, where people still barter chickens for health care (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?51900-Make-Fun-of-Bartering-All-You-Want-But-It-Works).

If any of you know about any other waivers that have been granted, then you should expose them immediately!

The law authorizes a few other types of waivers, like for states that have their own "innovative" health care programs if those programs offer benefits at least as generous as required by policies offered on the exchange, but I don't think any of those have been granted.

[cwolff]

Your rep is pretty easy to spot. Mostly because you can't complete a sentence without mentioning kool-aid.

But just for fun, tell us how it was republicans that shut down the government, despite Reid shitting on everything they offered and refusing to negotiate on anything.

Bonus points if you can do it without mentioning an otherwise refreshing and delicious beverage.

Slow down there little buddy. That's not me. I even tried to neg rep you recently and was blocked because I need to spread the love first.

[Methais]

Slow down there little buddy. That's not me. I even tried to neg rep you recently and was blocked because I need to spread the love first.

BUT KOOL AID!

[Latrinsorm]

So just pass everything Obama wants and the market will fix itself? I thought we did that for the first two years of his presidency?DJIA January 2nd, 2009: 9,034.69
DJIA January 7th, 2011: 11,674.76
It was under a trillion dollars 30 years ago. It was 10 trillion 6 years ago. It's almost 18 trillion now. Notice a trend?I notice that you don't account for inflation. :)
But just for fun, tell us how it was republicans that shut down the government, despite Reid shitting on everything they offered and refusing to negotiate on anything.Negotiating in bad faith. This sort of situation is such an obvious example that it is literally used as the definition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_faith#Negotiation_theory). Now you might say: what evidence do we have that the Tea Party are doing this for political effect rather than practical considerations? To that I cite Ted Cruz' filibuster, but not really, but he's still really awesome for standing up to those fat cats in Washington.

[Warriorbird]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

I ran this before. This is just numbers and the PC itself.

[Atlanteax]

I ran this before. This is just numbers and the PC itself.

Clearly was done with extreme selective bias and therefore is an unsubstantiated assertion.

[Warriorbird]

Clearly was done with extreme selective bias and therefore is an unsubstantiated assertion.

If you weren't lazy you could even go back and find the Wordle.

[Atlanteax]

If you weren't lazy you could even go back and find the Wordle.

Said the person who makes a claim and then does not support it with links/etc.