Cigarette Smoking-Your Opinion?

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Great, you can stop using PsiNet any time you want. I bet you'd put a murderer to death, but not an underaged smoker. You fucking hypocrite. You have to kill all criminals if you kill one.

Being an underage smoker is against the law in the States?

Weird

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Being an underage smoker is against the law in the States?>>

Maybe you don't know what underage means?

[Bobmuhthol]

It's a regional law.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
<<Being an underage smoker is against the law in the States?>>

Maybe you don't know what underage means?
I am perfectly aware of what underage means.

The question was is it against the law for people to smoke, whilst also being under age?

If so, thats fucking stupid.

Being a criminal for smoking at a young age. ...Go US Judicial systems.

[StrayRogue]

The laws in regards to children are just as much fucked up here in the UK, as it is in America.

[Nieninque]

In many ways they are.
I already said how fucked up ASBOs are (in that thread) - and they are mostly aimed at children.
But to say "Hey, you are smoking a cigarette and you are not old enough yet, therefore I will charge you with a crime" is a little bizarre...no, its fucking stupid

Edited: because there is no such thing as a cogarette

[Edited on 2-9-04 by Nieninque]

[StrayRogue]

I'd much prefer children to not be smoking when they are young, especially when things like peer pressure are often the main reason they even bother at that age.

[Artha]

It's a crime, but it's not really enforced on the kids, more on the people that sell them cigarettes.

[Nieninque]

Stay: of course its not a good idea for people to be smoking at all, let alone underage, but criminalising it is ridiculous.

Artha: Agreed totally

[Percocet]

Um, no ... underage smoking is not a crime in the majority of states. It's the sale of cigarettes to minors that is the crime. I could be ten and waltz my ass in front of a cop and smoke a cigarette without punishment. The most that would happen is them ridiculing the ten year old and / or grabbing the cig out of the kids mouth because its "morally wrong" to be smoking at that age.

There's a big fine for attempting to buy cigarettes as a minor and getting caught. There's an even bigger fine if you're the clerk selling it, whether you know the kid is or not.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Being a criminal for smoking at a young age. ...Go US Judicial systems.>>

To be doing something underage is illegal, I'm afraid.



<<It's a crime, but it's not really enforced on the kids, more on the people that sell them cigarettes.>>
<<Artha: Agreed totally>>

So you're complaining that action is taken against kids who break the law, but you completely agree that underage smoking is a crime.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
So you're complaining that action is taken against kids who break the law, but you completely agree that underage smoking is a crime.

No. I am saying it is stupid to make kids who smoke into criminals. I agree that the focus should be on those who make it possible for children to smoke - i.e. shops that sell to kids, stupid parents, tobacco industries, governments that gain more from taxes on the sales of cigarettes than they put into prevention programmes to stop kids smoking in the first place.

[Percocet]

Originally posted by Nieninque

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
So you're complaining that action is taken against kids who break the law, but you completely agree that underage smoking is a crime.

No. I am saying it is stupid to make kids who smoke into criminals. I agree that the focus should be on those who make it possible for children to smoke - i.e. shops that sell to kids, stupid parents, tobacco industries, governments that gain more from taxes on the sales of cigarettes than they put into prevention programmes to stop kids smoking in the first place.

Stupid parents? I'd slap you if I could. Thinking like that is as bad as Bush saying God told him homosexual tendencies are a ticket to hell, then going back to his Texas ranch and plugging his bull's ass.

Whatever happened to what aspects of free will we humans can fathomably grasp? No, cigarettes aren't the healthiest thing in the world. They also aren't the world's number one killer. You want to know what it is? NIDDM, or type 2 diabetes.

And it ain't caused by smoking! It's from EATING TOO MUCH.

It's incredibly easy to counter the effects of cigarette smoking by STAYING IN SHAPE. No, you won't be 100%, but at least you'll be relatively healthy.

It's all genetic, too. I know people who are kicking 90 and smoke a pack or two a day and can still do what most other 90 year olds can do.

Oh, and we won't tell everyone about that little drink your daddy let you sip out of when you were underage either, oh no no.



Yah, Abztract's a dumbass. Yah.

[Edited on 9-3-2004 by Percocet]

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Oh, and we won't tell everyone about that little drink your daddy let you slip out of when you were underage either, oh no no.>>

That's 100% legal.

Edited to say if it was in a private residence.

[Edited on 9-3-2004 by Bobmuhthol]

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Percocet
It's incredibly easy to counter the effects of cigarette smoking

Doh!

[Percocet]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
<<Oh, and we won't tell everyone about that little drink your daddy let you slip out of when you were underage either, oh no no.>>

That's 100% legal.

Edited to say if it was in a private residence.

[Edited on 9-3-2004 by Bobmuhthol]

Maybe so, in a private residence, but it's the idea of it that I'm focusing on.

If you think about it though, the acts of buying, providing, and consuming alcohol, as a minor, are all illegal.

Whilst as the act of smoking a cigarette, as a minor, is not.

edit: all my edits are done for grammar reasons. I shouldn't hit the "post reply" button so fast :-/

[Edited on 9-3-2004 by Percocet]

[Edited on 9-3-2004 by Percocet]

[Bobmuhthol]

Can you explain that again? It's legal to drink alcohol with a parent or guardian's consent/supervision in a private residence, but it is always illegal to consume alcohol as a minor. Nice.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Percocet
If you think about it though, the acts of buying, providing, and consuming alcohol, as a minor, are all illegal.

Not here. Selling to children is illegal. Attempted to buy alcohol as a child is a part of growing up.

[Chadj]

Hahha

[StrayRogue]

Saying that keeping in shape negates the effects of smoking is stupid.

[Percocet]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Can you explain that again? It's legal to drink alcohol with a parent or guardian's consent/supervision in a private residence, but it is always illegal to consume alcohol as a minor. Nice.

The general law declares it illegal to consume alcohol as a minor.

If you are the the minor's parent, in a private residence, and offer that child alcohol, it's allowed. I see that more as a "what you can't see won't hurt you" concept, though. Because if a neighbor happened to see you doing that through a window, that's grounds for a social worker to come in and take away the minor.

Also, if you're supplying alcohol to a minor who is NOT your child, you will be arrested.

[Percocet]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Saying that keeping in shape negates the effects of smoking is stupid.

Sure, to you.

I'm living proof that it's not, though.

[Soulpieced]

Psh, should be parent or guardian. Yes officer, I am all these freshman's guardian :grin:

[Edited on 9-3-2004 by Soulpieced]

[Percocet]

Crap, I'm late for class. I'll be back in 2 hours.

[StrayRogue]

I think you should go ask a doctor and stop relying on the fact that A) You have no idea how healthy you would have been or could have been B) haven't yet got lung cancer and C) believing what the Cig companies tell you.

FACT smoking is bad for you, if you stay in shape or not.

[Toxicvixen]

It's incredibly easy to counter the effects of cigarette smoking by STAYING IN SHAPE. No, you won't be 100%, but at least you'll be relatively healthy.


Wow. Just wow... I can't even know where to start with that one.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Percocet
The general law declares it illegal to consume alcohol as a minor.

In the UK you can drink alcohol from the age of 5 according to law


If you are the the minor's parent, in a private residence, and offer that child alcohol, it's allowed. I see that more as a "what you can't see won't hurt you" concept, though. Because if a neighbor happened to see you doing that through a window, that's grounds for a social worker to come in and take away the minor.

That is crap and falls alongside the "if you smoke 100 smokes a day and do some exercise you will live to 100" quote.



Also, if you're supplying alcohol to a minor who is NOT your child, you will be arrested.
can be.

[Percocet]

<<In the UK you can drink alcohol from the age of 5 according to law>>

I'm talking about the US.

<<That is crap and falls alongside the "if you smoke 100 smokes a day and do some exercise you will live to 100" quote.>>

If that quote is your view of what I've been saying about exercise, let me tell you how way out in the woods you're lost.

As far as the whole thing goes with smoking and exercise, no, you won't live to your fullest, but at least you can smoke and still be relatively healthy.

I'm tired of hearing people say I'm wrong, because I'm not. Yah, it can cause all that stuff that's been drilled in to my head since day one, but if you keep yourself healthy then you can at the least lessen the risks.

And no, it's not crap. Supplying alcohol to your child is grounds for a social worker to give you a little visit. It'd be under the "general" topic of child abuse.

<<can be.>>

I was debating on saying that, but then I thought of it in a "if you get caught" scenario it's a will be.

[Edited on 9-3-2004 by Percocet]

[Percocet]

Originally posted by Toxicvixen


It's incredibly easy to counter the effects of cigarette smoking by STAYING IN SHAPE. No, you won't be 100%, but at least you'll be relatively healthy.


Wow. Just wow... I can't even know where to start with that one.

Good, because I'd drill your negativity of it back in to the ground where it belongs.


[Edited on 9-3-2004 by Percocet]

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Percocet
<<That is crap and falls alongside the "if you smoke 100 smokes a day and do some exercise you will live to 100" quote.>>

If that quote is your view of what I've been saying about exercise, let me tell you how way out in the woods you're lost.

As far as the whole thing goes with smoking and exercise, no, you won't live to your fullest, but at least you can smoke and still be relatively healthy.



Smoking is one of the most important causes of disease and is responsible for at least one out of every five deaths in the United States. Compared to nonsmokers, smokers have 10 times the risk of getting lung cancer -- and twice the risk of dying from heart disease. Smoking also causes chronic lung disease -- chronic bronchitis and emphysema -- which can be fatal. But that's not all. As research continues, the list of diseases associated with smoking keeps growing longer. That list now includes stroke, peptic ulcer, osteoporosis, and cataracts, as well as cancer of the mouth, throat, esophagus, pancreas, kidney, bladder, uterus, cervix -- and possibly also leukemia and cancer of the breast, prostate, and colon. In addition, diabetics who smoke increase their risk of kidney disease. Smoking can interfere with the healing of wounds and fractures. And it increases facial wrinkling, making a person look older than he or she really is.

Doesnt sound too healthy to me.

5 million deaths worldwide each year are attributed to smoking.



I'm tired of hearing people say I'm wrong,

Maybe you should stop talking shit then.



And no, it's not crap. Supplying alcohol to your child is grounds for a social worker to give you a little visit. It'd be under the "general" topic of child abuse.

Any social worker who is visiting families because they have given their child alcohol is clearly without enough work to do. If they get them pissed and give them alcohol poisoning, you may have a point....but otherwise... :no:
[/quote]

[Soulpieced]

There's a small difference between being physically fit and having a pound of tar in your lungs.

[Percocet]

<<Doesnt sound too healthy to me.>>

For christ's sake, I'm not saying smoking is healthy. There are ways to lessen the ill effects of it, especially for those people (like me) who rather enjoy smoking a lot. If there was a way to smoke, without any unhealthy effects at all, I'd gladly do it.

<<Maybe you should stop talking shit then.>>

Excuse me? That's the most hypocritical and closed-minded shit I've ever read.

<<Any social worker who is visiting families because they have given their child alcohol is clearly without enough work to do. If they get them pissed and give them alcohol poisoning, you may have a point....but otherwise...>>

My aunt's a social worker, it can be done.

[StrayRogue]

Yes, you lessen the risks. However, every single time a smoke molecule enters your lungs you have a chance of a cancerous growth being formed. Hence why passive smoking sucks, hence why the more you smoke, the more likely you are to catch cancer. That is only one element of a whole myriad of ailments and problems caused or causable by smoking. Merely keeping in shape does not lessen the effect to a degree where it is indestinguishable from someone who doesn't smoke.

The "I enjoy smoking" shit is obviously small comfort to those poor folks who have to suffer your habit, as well.

I think you should stop listening to the Cig companies and go speak to a doctor. You're own "experiences" mean shit in the grand scheme of things, especially if you're still young.

Hell, I know theres a number of people in the medical profession who post here, Rhett and Chica being two of which. I'm sure they'll post soon enough.

[Edited on 3-9-04 by StrayRogue]

[Percocet]

<<I think you should stop listening to the Cig companies>>

The only time I've ever consciously looked at a cig company ad was for a subliminal messaging class I took last year. I'm not listening to them. I know what the effects of smoking are. I know how bad it is. Would I promote it? No, not necessarily.

<<Merely keeping in shape does not lessen the effect to a degree where it is indestinguishable from someone who doesn't smoke.>>

I have not once said that exercising and staying in shape will keep you up to par with someone who doesn't.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Percocet
<<Doesnt sound too healthy to me.>>

For christ's sake, I'm not saying smoking is healthy.

Just to remind you


Originally posted by PercocetNo, you won't be 100%, but at least you'll be relatively healthy.

So according to the evidence of the effects of smoking, you are wrong.


There are ways to lessen the ill effects of it, especially for those people (like me) who rather enjoy smoking a lot.

Mainly by not smoking.
If you want to kill yourself by smoking, thats fine. But to clain that by smoking a fag and then going out and having a bit of exercise you are negating the effects of the smoke, you are talking out the back of your head.


If there was a way to smoke, without any unhealthy effects at all, I'd gladly do it.

The point is, there isnt.


<<Any social worker who is visiting families because they have given their child alcohol is clearly without enough work to do. If they get them pissed and give them alcohol poisoning, you may have a point....but otherwise...>>

My aunt's a social worker, it can be done.

Anything can be done.
It is highly unlikely, however.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<5 million deaths worldwide each year are attributed to smoking.>>

That's because people are retards and are smoking the wrong thing.

[Percocet]

<<The "I enjoy smoking" shit is obviously small comfort to those poor folks who have to suffer your habit, as well.>>

It's not shit, it's absolutely true. I'll openly admit that I'm addicted to nicotine. Aside from that, though, I am addicted to smoking. I love to smoke. I'm more partial to hookas and raw tobacco instead, but the idea of smoking, the act of smoking, that's what I enjoy. How is it any flipping different from enjoy something as simple as pizza? Or, god forbid you can open your mind a bit to see it, but just as enjoyable as something like snowboarding... or maybe scuba diving is your thing...

I enjoy a lot of things, smoking just happens to be one of them.

[StrayRogue]

Because........PIZZA DOESN'T KILL THOSE WHO DON'T EAT IT? And thats a pretty hefty difference in the grand scale of things, if you ask me. Passive smoking is shitty and kills alot of people.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Percocet
How is it any flipping different from enjoy something as simple as pizza?
People dont die from passive pizza-eating

[Percocet]

<<So according to the evidence of the effects of smoking, you are wrong.>>

No, by keeping your body in shape you lessen the effects. No matter the degree, the point is you lessen them.

<<Mainly by not smoking.
If you want to kill yourself by smoking, thats fine. But to clain that by smoking a fag and then going out and having a bit of exercise you are negating the effects of the smoke, you are talking out the back of your head. >>

Argh, you're like talking to a brick wall.

----

<<Because........PIZZA DOESN'T KILL THOSE WHO DON'T EAT IT? And thats a pretty hefty difference in the grand scale of things, if you ask me. Passive smoking is shitty and kills alot of people. >>

<<People dont die from passive pizza-eating >>

I knew you two wouldn't see it as a general relation. Eating pizza as an enjoyment vs smoking a cig for enjoyment IS THE SAME DAMN CONCEPT.

[Edited on 9-3-2004 by Percocet]

[StrayRogue]

Again, eating pizza doesn't kill those who don't happen to like eating pizza. Smoking does. Its the general selfish nature of such smokers who don't see passive smoking as a problem (I'm getting a strong feeling you're one of these people) that make it such a fucking killer.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Percocet
<<So according to the evidence of the effects of smoking, you are wrong.>>

No, by keeping your body in shape you lessen the effects. No matter the degree, the point is you lessen them.

<<Mainly by not smoking.
If you want to kill yourself by smoking, thats fine. But to clain that by smoking a fag and then going out and having a bit of exercise you are negating the effects of the smoke, you are talking out the back of your head. >>

Argh, you're like talking to a brick wall.


That is projection.

You said:


you won't be 100%, but at least you'll be relatively healthy.

And you are wrong. You can lessen the risks...actually you cant. If you smoke you increase the risks of the aforementioned illnesses. Anything you do to counteract the risks is lessing the increased risks. Therefore, you are still at a higher risk. Therefore you are wrong. Smoking is stupid. Antisocial. And very Unhealthy.



<<Because........PIZZA DOESN'T KILL THOSE WHO DON'T EAT IT? And thats a pretty hefty difference in the grand scale of things, if you ask me. Passive smoking is shitty and kills alot of people. >>

<<People dont die from passive pizza-eating >>

I knew you two wouldn't see it as a general relation. Eating pizza as an enjoyment vs smoking a cig for enjoyment IS THE SAME DAMN CONCEPT.


It may well be, but no-one died from being next to people who enjoyed eating pizzas. Plenty died from being next to people who enjoyed smoking.
Whether or not you enjoy it, you are inflicting your stupidity and selfishness upon others, therefore you suck

[Percocet]

<<Again, eating pizza doesn't kill those who don't happen to like eating pizza. Smoking does. Its the general selfish nature of such smokers who don't see passive smoking as a problem (I'm getting a strong feeling you're one of these people) that make it such a fucking killer.>>

I hope you don't go on your gut often, because you're wrong.

I fully understand the health risks of smoking, as I have said over and over. I will not risk those people around me because of a passive habit of enjoyment.

There have been countless occassions where I have thrown a cigarette I just lit up away because of someone uncomfortable with it around me.
If there is someone who doesn't necessarily mind it, but wants to sit with me and talk with me, I will move so the smoke doesn't blow near them.

I'm very respectful with my habit.

[StrayRogue]

Then thats a good thing. Unfortunately, not many people do. Anyway, wheres the mods? We've gone way, way off topic. DEATH TO ABZTRACT.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Percocet

I hope you don't go on your gut often, because you're wrong.

I fully understand the health risks of smoking, as I have said over and over. I will not risk those people around me because of a passive habit of enjoyment.

There have been countless occassions where I have thrown a cigarette I just lit up away because of someone uncomfortable with it around me.
If there is someone who doesn't necessarily mind it, but wants to sit with me and talk with me, I will move so the smoke doesn't blow near them.

I'm very respectful with my habit.

You smoke around people.
Thats inflicting it on them.

The shit that is in smoke isnt just the bits you can see. If you blow it one way, it doesnt necessarily keep going that way.

Fuck you are thick

[Snapp]

Christ, get off his back. So he likes smoking. Live and let live. He said he's respectful around other non-smokers, you can't ask for more then that.

[Percocet]

<<You smoke around people.
Thats inflicting it on them.

The shit that is in smoke isnt just the bits you can see. If you blow it one way, it doesnt necessarily keep going that way.

Fuck you are thick >>

Fuck, you are a brick wall. Nothing I seem to throw at you is sinking in.

I try to accomodate the people who want to be near me when I'm smoking. It ain't gonna be fucking perfect, but at least I fucking try.

I think the thick person here is you. I'll re-iterate something with a slight modification. You are the most closed-minded prick I've ever had to meet.



Yes, death to abztract!

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Percocet


Fuck, you are a brick wall. Nothing I seem to throw at you is sinking in.

Mainly because you offered a weak argument, contradicted yourself and are heavily outweighed by all the medical evidence. :shrug: Forgive me for not bowing to your greater wisdom.



I try to accomodate the people who want to be near me when I'm smoking. It ain't gonna be fucking perfect, but at least I fucking try.

Try waiting until you are on your own or outside. Thats a damn site nearer perfect than your half-assed accommodations.



I think the thick person here is you. I'll re-iterate something with a slight modification. You are the most closed-minded prick I've ever had to meet.


We never met



Yes, death to abztract!

That goes without saying

[Edited on 3-9-04 by Nieninque]

[HarmNone]

Sorry I wasn't around to move this sooner, guys. Enjoy! :D

HarmNone, thread healer

[HarmNone]

Most state laws punish the seller, not the underage smoker. There are, however, exceptions to that:

Associated Press [03/22/99]

Fourteen months after Texas made it illegal for people under 18 to possess tobacco, health professionals and authorities are questioning whether the law has done anything to reduce teen smoking.

Since Jan. 1, 1998, 1,437 Houston minors were cited for possession of tobacco, but 991 didn't even show up in court, the Houston Chronicle reported Sunday.

One who did show up - a high school senior caught smoking on a public street - said he felt out of place.

Children caught violating the law, a Class C misdemeanor, face a fine of up to $250 and are ordered to attend a daylong tobacco- awareness class or perform community service.

Those who skip the class or fail to come to court can lose their driver's licenses for up to 180 days and have a warrant issued for their arrest once they turn 18. Children too young to drive when they are cited will find their licenses suspended when they apply.

Between Jan. 1, 1998, and Aug. 31, 1998, the latest information available, 164 Texas teenagers had their driver's licenses suspended for tobacco-related offenses, according to the Department of Public Safety.

An official with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said there are no studies showing that laws penalizing teens are effective at getting them to stop using tobacco - the leading cause of preventable deaths in the nation and Texas.

"We like to promote things that work," said Dr. Donald Sharp, a medical epidemiologist with the CDC's Office on Smoking and Health. "There is no evidence this works."

Municipal Court Judge David O. Fraga, who has no qualms about suspending licenses to enforce the law, said he can't tell whether the program is having its intended effect.

Under the smoking law, retailers could lose their tobacco licenses if they repeatedly sell to underage buyers. Since April, when the state awarded grants for enforcing the law, Houston police have conducted about 200 stings at tobacco retail establishments, using minors as decoys. There were 65 violations, resulting in 41 convictions.

The average age of the participants is 15.5, and 70 percent of them are males.

(Article at http://www.no-smoking.org/march99/03-23-99-1.html)

HarmNone

[Tsa`ah]

There are many social laws in place that probably made sense when they were put on the floors as bills.

Drinking age, I'm iffy on. Yet as a society we Americans have defined addiction. I would rather have laws that dissuade underage use than leave it up to parents that don't have the best judgment to begin with.

Per making children criminals, please understand our legal system before you start making ignorant comments about it.

Most juvenile criminal records are sealed from the public and never disclosed with exception to cases of molestation, rape, murder ... they violent crimes.

Joe arrested for illegal possession of alcohol at the age of 17 does not have to worry about this charge at the age of 18. We're a nation full of idiots, but we're not all idiots.

Next time do some damned research.

[Toxicvixen]

Good, because I'd drill your negativity of it back in to the ground where it belongs.


Naw. I will keep my hard headed opinions. People have thier rights. You have the right to smoke. I have the right not to like smoking.

[HarmNone]

Anyone is entitled to believe as he/she wishes to believe. However, one cannot exercise tar out of one's lungs. That is a simple fact.

HarmNone

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Percocet
They also aren't the world's number one killer. Here's another fun fact, Percocet: more Americans kill themselves than are killed by another. Guess we should stop prosecuting murder, eh?

[Bobmuhthol]

No, we just need to make more suicide arrests.

[DeV]

There's only one type of smoke I can tolerate smelling. Cigarette is not one of them.

Harmnone is right---removing tar from lungs has nothing to do with exercising.

[DianaBanana]

Smoking is dumb and gross. The end. :yes:

[Percocet]

Sorry, I'd continue arguing but no matter how many times I say it or how many different ways I say it, it's not getting through.

So I guess what I'm saying now, out of frustration, is that I give up and you're all right.

But to keep on topic -
Yah, cigarette smoking's bad!

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Percocet
Sorry, I'd continue arguing but no matter how many times I say it or how many different ways I say it, it's not getting through.You say that as if you were in any way logical in your assertion. If I read it correctly, it goes like this:

a) Smoking is unhealthy.
b) Exercise is healthy.
c) Thus, smoking and exercising cancel each other out to an appreciable extent.

We're all in agreement on the first two points. It's your conclusion that's incorrect. No matter how many times/ways you say something that's incorrect, it does not become correct.