Seriously, Wheres The 9/11 Wreckage

[Overlord]

Ehe but seriously though I did actually question this back on the morning this happened, quite frankly i was still having issues beleiving what was going on. I thought my roomies (Redion) girlfriend (Sennymay, leeonie) was playing a practical joke on us.

But i don't remember seeing any footage of the pentagon that morning, that revealed any wreckage from an 80 ton plane, and it also neglected to show the ENORMOUS crater that would have been left in the ground or in the bloody pentagon itself.

[Wezas]

Squash this before the thread gets any bigger.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

[Overlord]

Its a conspiracy conspiracy!!!

[Caiylania]

Stuff like this is retarded.

JUST IN: We did NOT, I repeat, DID NOT land on the Moon!!!!! Proof??? The flag I say..... It's WAVING. So there.

[Miss Jade]

http://www.muchosucko.com/flash/pentagonlies.html#Main
________
New Mexico Medical Marijuana (http://newmexico.dispensaries.org/)

[Faent]

Some of you are unbelievably gullible.

-Scott

[Kadumi]

"The Delicate And Profound Conspiracies In Life Are What Fucking Confuse Me" - Geoff

[Skirmisher]

Somehow this all ties in to the government pumping all that flouride in the water I just know it! :grr:

[Tirayana]

I think people are, in general, becoming a lot less believing of the media and our government.

I don't really know what happened. I wasn't there, and I didn't film it. And if you weren't there, and you didn't film it, then you also don't have a freaking clue what happened.

~Tirayana

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tirayana
I think people are, in general, becoming a lot less believing of the media and our government.

I don't really know what happened. I wasn't there, and I didn't film it. And if you weren't there, and you didn't film it, then you also don't have a freaking clue what happened.

~Tirayana

To translate:

Tirayana says, "How do we KNOW they landed on the moon? If you weren't there, then you don't have a freaking clue. By the way, I r stupid."

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Miss Jade
http://www.muchosucko.com/flash/pentagonlies.html#Main

Well it's obviously true. With a credible news source like "Mucho Sucko" who can argue?

[Skirmisher]

Yeesh, i loathe Bush as much as anyone but come on.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I think the whole 'movie' was incredibly well made and I dug the sound.

Stupid waste of time, but entertaining non-the-less!

[Parkbandit]

My firewall blocks it because of "Adult Content"... and that makes me sad.

:sniffle:

[Caiylania]

Wasted talent.

[Tirayana]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
To translate:

Tirayana says, "How do we KNOW they landed on the moon? If you weren't there, then you don't have a freaking clue. By the way, I r stupid."

Well, there were films of people walking on the moon. I haven't seen any films of a Boeing 747 hitting the Pentagon.

:rolleyes:

P.S. No need to be mean.

P.P.S. I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I don't want to take what the government says at face value. Why should I? They can (and have) lied to me, so that's why I base my opinions on hard, cold facts, and not just a bunch of speculations and testimonials. Make sense?

[Edited on 9-2-2004 by Tirayana]

[Wezas]

I work about a half mile from the pentagon. A co-worker of mine heard the plane outside his window and turned in time to see the tail go by. We watched from our office building window as the smoke poured out of the pentagon. Our building shook when there was a 2nd explosion (gas lines I think it was).

Not to mention - where do you think the people on flight 77 are? Obviously noone has come forward and said "Hey, I'm still alive, what's the deal?"

[Tirayana]

Originally posted by Wezas
I work about a half mile from the pentagon. A co-worker of mine heard the plane outside his window and turned in time to see the tail go by. We watched from our office building window as the smoke poured out of the pentagon. Our building shook when there was a 2nd explosion (gas lines I think it was).

Not to mention - where do you think the people on flight 77 are? Obviously noone has come forward and said "Hey, I'm still alive, what's the deal?"

You're right, Wezas. Those people have not come forward - but that doesn't mean that the plane did hit the Pentagon.

And I'm not trying to discredit yours or anyone else's stories about what happened that day. I'm just saying - where are the facts and the proof?

~Me

[Edited on 9-2-2004 by Tirayana]

[StrayRogue]

Yes, the sound was quality. However, I don't expect much from the nation who elected Mr. Bush in the first place when it comes to sense, reason, and an objective and unbiased media.

I still remember tanks rolling down sedgewick avenue.

If they care enough to bring heavy infantry to the bronx, I'm guessing that things weren't made up as of that day.

[Wezas]

Tiriyana, take another look at the pic halfway down the page.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

Sure looks like a piece of a plane to me.

[Blazing247]

<However, I don't expect much from the nation who elected Mr. Bush in the first place when it comes to sense, reason, and an objective and unbiased media. >

I think Anti-Americanism is about as intelligent a sentiment to parade around as racism. You make England proud, dumbass.

[Tirayana]

Well, Wezas, by YOUR logic, why should I believe 'snopes', as they are not a credible news source..?

This is a silly argument. The fact remains that I don't know what happened because I wasn't there. If you WERE there, and you DO know what happened, then that's a dispelled myth (for you). But the way it still stands is, I wasn't there. I have seen numerous films showing planes flying into the twin towers...but none re: the pentagon. So, whatever. Like I said, it's a silly argument, and it's not even worth either of us wasting time on it because we should just agree to disagree.

~Me

[Bobmuhthol]

There are no videos containing a plane crashing into the pentagon because nobody was there to film it. People with video cameras exist in New York. After one plane crashed, news cameras captured the next crash on film while reporting the first. Nobody is standing outside the Pentagon with a video camera.

[Numbers]

Originally posted by Tirayana
Well, there were films of people walking on the moon. I haven't seen any films of a Boeing 747 hitting the Pentagon.


Right.

Because I'm sure that everybody who was around there at the time had their cameras out and ready in order to snap pictures of a giant plane careening into the side of a building.

Because we ALL knew it was going to happen. :rolleyes:

This topic, quite frankly, is offensive, as is your skepticism. You dishonor the memories of everybody who died that day, and as someone who lost two very good friends in the WTC attack, on behalf of myself and them:

FUCK YOU

[Edited on 9-2-2004 by 3704558]

[Tirayana]

I understand, Bob. People don't sit outside the Pentagon with cameras. I get it.

But even the pictures make me think, "I dunno..IS it really wreckage? I can't tell." And there aren't very many pictures for me to make a sound judgement on the matter. Unless I'm looking in the wrong places..I dunno. :?:

[Bobmuhthol]

<<This topic, quite frankly, is offensive>>

You had a valid point until you said that. Stop being a pussy. My great uncle drowned, but you don't see me complaining about how offensive it is to talk about water.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<But even the pictures make me think, "I dunno..IS it really wreckage? I can't tell.">>

Maybe a before and after comparison will help you out.

Here's the Pentagon:
http://www.inn-dc.com/pentagon.gif

Here's the Pentagon with a plane in it:
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/images/pent2.jpg
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/images/obscure2.jpg

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Stop being a pussy. My great uncle drowned, but you don't see me complaining about how offensive it is to talk about water.

Alright, now that's fucking funny.

[Numbers]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
My great uncle drowned, but you don't see me complaining about how offensive it is to talk about water.

There's a massive difference between somebody drowning and a few thousand people getting killed by terrorists.

[Tirayana]

Originally posted by 3704558
Right.

Because I'm sure that everybody who was around there at the time had their cameras out and ready in order to snap pictures of a giant plane careening into the side of a building.

Because we ALL knew it was going to happen. :rolleyes:

This topic, quite frankly, is offensive, as is your skepticism. You dishonor the memories of everybody who died that day, and as someone who lost two very good friends in the WTC attack, on behalf of myself and them:

FUCK YOU

[Edited on 9-2-2004 by 3704558]

Relax. As I said in previous posts, I'm not trying to discredit anyone's stories. I simply look for facts and evidence, both of which seem to be a little lacking, in my opinion.

There's no reason to personally attack me for my comments or opinions. I'm not attacking anyone else for their comments or opinions on what happened on 9/11, and I do not doubt SOMEthing hit the Pentagon. As for Flight 77, who knows.. I certainly don't, as you can tell.

I'll reiterate again, I just want facts and proof. I'm a skeptic, because I know people lie, and so should you.

I feel just as bad about the atrocities that happened on 9/11, and I pray for those whose lives were lost, and the families that have to deal with those losses. Please, I am not a villainous person, nor inhumane. I think it is a terrible thing that happened, and I wish that it hadn't, but it did. And now those events are coming into light STILL, 3 years later, because all of the facts are not straight. People have questions. Questions with no answers.

Anyway, I don't have the facts. And I'm not claiming that I do. That's all.

Sorry if I offended you. :shrug:

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Ok, so, help me out here.

What is the conspiracy then for what hit the Pentagon? Why would you doubt that a plane hit it, and if it wasn't a plane, what do you think hit it?

Why do you question what most people take as fact, is what I'm getting at.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<There's a massive difference between somebody drowning and a few thousand people getting killed by terrorists.>>

Yeah, terrorists kill people. Water is supposed to be our friend.

NO WRECKAGE HERE.
http://pez.ca/~mashton/wtc/pent2.jpg
http://pez.ca/~mashton/wtc/pentagon-post.jpg
http://pez.ca/~mashton/wtc/pentagon.jpg

[Edited on 9-2-2004 by Bobmuhthol]

[Wezas]

What kind of proof do you want?

You want to see dead charred bodies being dragged out of the pentagon still strapped into their airplane seatbelts?

Fires are fires. Alot of evidence is burned by the fires. In the pictures I have posted - you can plainly see a piece of the plane. Flight 77 had 64 people on it. Should we call up all their families to see if they've heard from them?

Where is your proof it wasn't a plane? There is obviously more proof that it *was* a plane.

[Edited on 9-2-2004 by Wezas]

[Tirayana]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
Ok, so, help me out here.

What is the conspiracy then for what hit the Pentagon? Why would you doubt that a plane hit it, and if it wasn't a plane, what do you think hit it?

Why do you question what most people take as fact, is what I'm getting at.

Even in the pictures that Bob just posted, I can't see a plane anywhere. Maybe I have a crappy video card or something (heh)..but I really don't see a plane.

It's not just MOST things, it's particular things. Things that there seem to be a lack of evidence for. Reagan once said, "Trust, but verify." So that's what I'm doing. Trying to verify. :P

[Toxicvixen]

ELVIS LIVES!

[Bobmuhthol]

<<And now those events are coming into light STILL, 3 years later, because all of the facts are not straight.>>

Wow. A whole 3 years. Maybe you're forgetting that before OTHER PEOPLE made life a hell of a lot easier, things were being discovered THOUSANDS OF YEARS LATER.

On a related note, http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/bobmuhthol/Plane_Crash_-_WTC.avi

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Tirayana
It's not just MOST things, it's particular things. Things that there seem to be a lack of evidence for.

I need to make a flash movie of Tirayana being logical. Then we would have herds of sheep believing it to be true.

[Toxicvixen]

Link didn't work Bob. :(

[Tirayana]

Wezas, of course I don't want to see dead charred bodies. I understand that things get destroyed in fires.

I guess you just want me to roll over and take your word as truth? I don't know..

Like I said, I think it's a silly argument and we should just lay it to rest because it hurts my head. :)

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Reagan once said, "Trust, but verify.">>

Reagan is also the reason Osama bin Laden received very expensive training to kill Soviets.



That certainly had no consequences.

[Tirayana]

Originally posted by Wezas

Originally posted by Tirayana
It's not just MOST things, it's particular things. Things that there seem to be a lack of evidence for.

I need to make a flash movie of Tirayana being logical. Then we would have herds of sheep believing it to be true.

:eyeroll: Thanks.

Can we just put this to rest please?

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Tirayana
:eyeroll: Thanks.

Can we just put this to rest please?

We would, but you just keep posting :saint:

[Parkbandit]

I learned long ago that debating Tirayana was almost as fulfilling as debating Warclaidhm.

While it's easy to prove them wrong, you feel like you are taking advantage of a retard.

[Chelle]

Eesh don't be so hard on her.

Though, I don't understand why actually seeing the plane is so important. You usually won't. It depends on how it exploded or hit the target. Sometimes a wing will come off and sometimes there is nothing at all. When things explode violently there rarely is anything left. Think about it, its in a bazillion pieces and some of that was incenerated or melted from 2000 degrees of heat.

[imported_Kranar]

<< You dishonor the memories of everybody who died that day, and as someone who lost two very good friends in the WTC attack, on behalf of myself and them: >>

Yes, I'm really sure that everyone who died wants to be honoured through vulgar words in bold letters on an internet message board.

<< There are no videos containing a plane crashing into the pentagon because nobody was there to film it. >>

There is a video of the plane crashing into the Pentagon as well as atleast one video showing the plane that crashed into the first World Trade Tower. The video of the plane crashing into the Pentagon I saw on the internet back when I was preparing a seminar on the US PATRIOT Act.

It looked very much like a 747 to me.

[Miss Jade]

the government has never lied to us. its better if we believe every thing that's told to us. how could this be anything other then a terrorist attack? there's no doubt its a terrorist attack but who are the terrorists? What ever you believe is fine at least you should look at the flip side because you never know when you have been lied to? on a side note did anyone ever get 40 acres and a mule? http://www.physics911.org
________
Voyeur vids (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/43/voyeur/videos/1)

[Chelle]

Originally posted by Kranar
<< You dishonor the memories of everybody who died that day, and as someone who lost two very good friends in the WTC attack, on behalf of myself and them: >>

Yes, I'm really sure that everyone who died wants to be honoured through vulgar words in bold letters on an internet message board.

<< There are no videos containing a plane crashing into the pentagon because nobody was there to film it. >>

There is a video of the plane crashing into the Pentagon as well as atleast one video showing the plane that crashed into the first World Trade Tower. The video of the plane crashing into the Pentagon I saw on the internet back when I was preparing a seminar on the US PATRIOT Act.

It looked very much like a 747 to me.

And there you have it.

[imported_Kranar]

Also, the video of the plane hitting the Pentagon is probably available on Snope's message board. I didn't originally see it on Snopes but I did come across a thread discussing the video.

They discussed this issue in what in an interesting manner, without resorting to "HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THOSE PEOPLE WHO DIED THEREFORE I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG!!"!!"!"!"!1111

I'm sure if you did a search on their forums you'll still find the entire discussion as well as the video.

[imported_Kranar]

<< the government has never lied to us. its better if we believe every thing that's told to us. how could this be anything other then a terrorist attack? there's no doubt its a terrorist attack but who are the terrorists? What ever you believe is fine at least you should look at the flip side because you never know when you have been lied to? on a side note did anyone ever get 40 acres and a mule? http://www.physics911.org >>

I'm quite a big fan of reading conspiracy theories. Not because I believe them necessarily, but because you learn a lot about the issue itself.

Looking over that video, it presents some very valid, legitimate questions like what happened to the deris of the plane? How can something like a 747 cause damage that mostly reflects a missle? Why did so and so happen when so and so was supposed to happen?

And by studying it, you find out the reasons, learn a bit about the science behind it, and you learn interesting facts just coming to show that truth is stranger than fiction.

[Bobmuhthol]

From that website that probably sucks:

<<The scale of the mass murder on September 11th 2001
was unprecedented in American History.>>

What? Because it involved an airplane and some buildings decided to fall over?

What was really unprecedented was the battle of the Civil War in which approximately 24,000 Americans died in a single day from killing each other. Crashing a plane into a building isn't even original anymore. It's all about needless, civil combat.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<9/11 has become the defining event of the new century, used to justify an unprecedented surge in militaristic and repressive policies within the USA and elsewhere.>>

They sure do like to hype everything by deeming it unprecedented. Yeah, fuck those unprecedented military fucks! This blows the atom bomb out of the water!

Speaking of the atom bomb, these news sites are an excellent resource.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/2/14/135256.shtml


Edited to take out the part where the atom bomb killed millions so the post would be taken more seriously.

[Edited on 9-2-2004 by Bobmuhthol]

[Wezas]

Pictures/video of the plane hitting.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/03/07/gen.pentagon.pictures/index.html

Since the plane came in extremely fast - you can only make out the plane in the first frame. After that it's all explosion.

[Bobmuhthol]

The video I have of the World Trade Center, IMHO, is fucking funny. The reporter is all, "We haven't seen the building from this angle before." Enter plane. The rest is history.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Tirayana
Anyway, I don't have the facts. And I'm not claiming that I do. That's all.

Sorry if I offended you. :shrug: Tirayana, think of it this way: If I was to question your parentage, would you be offended? How would the statement "Iwasn't there, I don't have the facts, I've just got questions" strike you?
Originally posted by Kranar
And by studying it, you find out the reasons, learn a bit about the science behind it, and you learn interesting facts just coming to show that truth is stranger than fiction.I'm a huge fan of learning stuff, Kranar. That being said, I also realize there are inappropriate questions. For instance, I'm not going to quiz my dad on the particulars of my grandfather's death.

Now, in 50 or so years, the emotional trauma associated with 9/11 is going to be just about unnoticeable. That would be an appropriate time to do penetrating research.

[Mistomeer]

Anyone who actually buys into the Pentagon theory of it not being a Boeing 757 is a fucking retard.

How can anyone be that fucking dumb?
When I see pictures of the WTC towers after the planes hit, I don't see the tail of a plane sticking out of there either, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't a plane that hit it.

I feel dumber, for having read any part of this thread.

[Blazing247]

"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

[Mistomeer]

Originally posted by Blazing247
"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

Funniest part of Billy Madison.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Now, in 50 or so years, the emotional trauma associated with 9/11 is going to be just about unnoticeable. That would be an appropriate time to do penetrating research.

Only the people with answers to the questions that need asking will be long gone.

Hardly an appropriate time to research something IMO
:shrug:

[Latrinsorm]

Right, because nobody ever records anything these days. :shrug:

[Ravenstorm]

Primary sources of information are always worth more than secondary. Likewise, everything becomes more clouded the further it is from when it happened. Just look at what's going on over Kerry and Bush's military records.

Raven

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by Overlord
Ehe but seriously though I did actually question this back on the morning this happened, quite frankly i was still having issues beleiving what was going on. I thought my roomies (Redion) girlfriend (Sennymay, leeonie) was playing a practical joke on us.

But i don't remember seeing any footage of the pentagon that morning, that revealed any wreckage from an 80 ton plane, and it also neglected to show the ENORMOUS crater that would have been left in the ground or in the bloody pentagon itself.

Craters are not the result of a mass hitting the ground, but rather the mass of air that accumulates in front of the object.

You see, when an object travels fast enough, it denys air the ability to move away from its path, thus creating a massive amount of friction. This is commonly seen in asteroids that enter into the earth's atmosphere.

But when this object makes an impact, the force of the air, unable to escape the path of the object, literally explodes when it is forced into the ground.

This is what creates the impact of a creator, regardless of the size of the object.

[imported_Kranar]

<< Craters are not the result of a mass hitting the ground, but rather the mass of air that accumulates in front of the object. >>

This fails to explain craters that form on planets or satellites with no air such as the moon and Mercury.

[Tsa`ah]

What Kranar said.

Yes, in an atmosphere this is partially correct. The air that is compressed in front of the falling object will indeed push solid and liquid matter out of the way and create the primary indentation, but it is the mass of the object that makes the crater. If it were totally the compact and super heated atmosphere in front of the object, the impact would cushion the mass and leave it intact. As we know, this does not happen.

[Overlord]

How the hell does an 80 ton aircraft disintigrate on bloody impact with the front of a building the size of the pentagon.

There were plenty of people taking pictures of the WTC i'm sure as bloody hell there were tourists or random spectators who ran to their cars etc. and took photos. But then again who am I to say that HEY!! The plane WAS annihilated and left no LARGE pieces of evidence (All be it wings tail whatever) that may have been viewd and captured by someone.

If it did i'm sure the pictures exist somewhere....

I'm just doubting it was the plane they claimed it was.. the whole missile theory is just a bit outrageous

[Edited on 9-3-2004 by Overlord]

[Artha]

The pentagon wall was 2 feet of reinforced concrete. Inside, the wreckage would have disintegrated in the flames.

[Parkbandit]

I hope all of you conspiracy theorists are at least athiests.. needing absolute proof prior to believing anything.

[Overlord]

Agnostic actually, and I don't need absolute proof hell quite frankly I don't really care if it was a differnet passenger plane filled with 100 aids infested heathens accompanied by an additional 100 needy, deprived orphans or a bloody 757. I was merely curious if anyone had any other information

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Gotta love the gullible AND conspiracy theorists.

[Skirmisher]

What Artha said.

If you saw the history channels special on the Pentagon you would have seen that they had just finished redoing that section in what was/is a massive renovation of nearly the entire structure.

It was concrete to begin with and that was reinforced with special material meant to help resist the effects of an explosion ala Oklahoma City where nearly the entire building collapsed.

The walls were redone and permeated with what was essentially a sheath similar in a fashion to the Tyvak? wrapping used on new homes, except this material was like kevlar. It was done to help disperse the energy of a bomb or in this case, a plane and wow.....it did its job. The plane while heavy is far from dense and pretty much disintegrated upon impact as was shown to have happened even in the twin towers which as has been said was no where near as solid a structure as the pentagon was even before being reinforced.

There is really no story here that I can see, sorry.

[Bobmuhthol]

And comparing the Pentagon to a skyscraper is pretty fucking retarded. THE PENTAGON, BEING A GOVERNMENT BUILDING FILLED WITH GOVERNMENT PEOPLE AND GOVERNMENT INFORMATION, HAPPENS TO BE HIGHLY PROTECTED AND IS NOT ONE OF THE TALLEST BUILDINGS EVER.

Also, fast object = more damage. Fast, heavy object + incredibly armored building = object loses, building takes damage without asploding. I don't see how you could expect large pieces of something that had an unfathomable amount of potential energy to survive the crash. Then you add in a gas tank. Explosion, fire, no large pieces of an airplane.


How come when an airplane went through one of the towers of the World Trace Center I didn't see it come out the other end? WAS IT MERELY AN ILLUSION SO THE GOVERNMENT COULD BRAINWASH ME?