Shooting at Washington Navy Yard

[Gelston]

Two suspected shooters "are down" at the Washington Navy Yard, according to Ed Zeigler, director of Public Affairs for Naval District Washington. Zeigler was not able to confirm whether the suspected gunmen had been taken into custody or killed.

"Multiple" people have been killed in the shooting at the Washington Navy Yard, Zeigler told CNN's Dan Merica.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/16/us/dc-navy-yard-gunshots/

Two gunmen, apparently. No numbers on victims yet. Guess there won't be a trial this time?

[Methais]

NAVAL YARDS NEED TO BE OUTLAWED!

[Allereli]

I woke up to this. My roommate usually goes to work there around 6:30 am. Luckily today he was going down to Quantico and was still at home.

[Parkbandit]

In before the outcries for more gun control.

[SashaFierce]

All of these mass killings take place in gun free zones.

[Allereli]

All of these mass killings take place in gun free zones.

since when is a military base a gun free zone?

[SashaFierce]

since when is a military base a gun free zone?

When it's located in DC

[Allereli]

When it's located in DC

do you live here? have you ever been to the navy yard? lots of guns

[Drew]

CNN's Dan Merica.


This is a tragedy. However, this guys name has to be fake.

[leifastagsweed]

Seriously sad. Also fucked up. Staying tuned.

What is also seriously sad is that when I woke to this news, I thought...Ohhh PC gonna have a field day with this one!

(I do not get my news from PC. I do not get my news from PC. Repeat it with me now. I do not get my news from PC.)

[senorgordoburro]

since when is a military base a gun free zone?

From the time I spent in the military, generally unless you are training, only military police has weapons. I was in the infantry, my jab was to use a weapon, and if I had one i was going to the field. Also, live ammunition is not just handed out like candy in the military either. I am not saying it is exceptionally hard to have either, all I am saying is that just because you are in the military does not mean that you are carrying around a loaded weapon all the time.

Hell, even in Afghanistan right now on most bases you do not carry a weapon with a magazine in it unless you are outside of the wire.

[Allereli]

With what I've heard I wouldn't be surprised if the shooter was a military police officer.

[SashaFierce]

With what I've heard I wouldn't be surprised if the shooter was a military police officer.

And I wouldn't be surprised if you had no idea what you're talking about, but you still want to read your own words on the screen.

Protect your 2nd amendment rights, because you don't want to be the only person without a gun.

[Allereli]

And I wouldn't be surprised if you had no idea what you're talking about, but you still want to read your own words on the screen.

lol you're starting off strong. or are you a banned account on a new name?

[Taernath]

With what I've heard I wouldn't be surprised if the shooter was a military police officer.

Based on what? All the reports I've read still aren't sure how many people were involved.

[senorgordoburro]

Oh, and for anyone with a concealed carry permit, military bases and all federal property is a 'gun free zone' in terms of privately owned weapons.

For instance, in Virginia open carry is legal so you can drive around with a loaded gun on the passenger seat of your vehicle. But if you were to drive onto a military base you have to unload the weapon and separate it from the ammunition according to certain guidelines.

[Tisket]

lol you're starting off strong. or are you a banned account on a new name?

I'd say he/she was spot on.

[Tisket]

Oh I forgot. Everyone who disagrees with you has to be an alt handle. My bad.

[senorgordoburro]

Based on what? All the reports I've read still aren't sure how many people were involved.

The Washington Post said a couple hours ago that their were 3 shooters and at least 1 was in military uniform... no idea how accurate this was, I think I read that around 10:15 or so. But that means nothing as far as what the person's job is within the military or if they ever are. Uniform's are not hard to come by, hell most clothing alteration shops outside of bases are overflowing with them.

[subzero]

In before the outcries for more gun control.

Oh come on, we're past all that now. No one was crying out for knife control when those kids were stabbed a couple weeks ago in Houston.

[Methais]

since when is a military base a gun free zone?

Wasn't the part of Fort Hood where that shooting happened a gun free zone?

[Methais]

With what I've heard I wouldn't be surprised if the shooter was a military police officer.

What exactly have you heard that brings you to this conclusion, other than nothing?

[Gelston]

The Washington Post said a couple hours ago that their were 3 shooters and at least 1 was in military uniform... no idea how accurate this was, I think I read that around 10:15 or so. But that means nothing as far as what the person's job is within the military or if they ever are. Uniform's are not hard to come by, hell most clothing alteration shops outside of bases are overflowing with them.

Not hard to get a military uniform.

But yeah, military bases are generally gun free except for people in training (at ranges), MPs, Civilian Contract security, and the other various security details out there(such as armory guards and stuff). Even if you go check out your rifle from the armory to clean it, it isn't like you have a bunch of ammo. And if you showed up to the armory with a bunch of ammo people would look at you weird. Furthermore, when I was in, the armorers knew when a range was. They aren't likely to let one person check out a rifle and walk off with it, out of the armory area. Hell, I remember when I was in and paintball became a huge thing, they'd make you check in paintball guns at the armory and you'd have to check it out to go use it.

So in short, yes, Allereli, Military Bases are a privately owned gun free zone. Not to mention it happened inside Naval Sea Systems Command headquarters, which would definitely be a gun free zone. That is basically an office building.

[Gelston]

They are now saying 6 dead, and they are searching for two more suspects.

WASHINGTON -- A manhunt was underway for two more possible shooters after at least six people were killed and several others wounded Monday at the Naval Sea Systems Command headquarters here, the Navy said.

Lanier said police are searching for a white male wearing a tan military-style uniform with short sleeves, a military beret and a hand gun. Police are also searching for a black man around 50 years old wearing an olive drab military-style uniform and carrying a long gun, Lanier said.

She said there was no evidence the suspects were military members.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/09/16/navy-yard-shooting/2819543/

Based on those descriptions, probably not Navy military police(Called MAs). They don't wear berets. Thanks for just popping up and trying to blame members of the military though, Allereli.

[SHAFT]

Seems like once a month something like this happens. I have to admit, every now and then I find myself out in public wondering what it'd be like if someone started shooting right then. After the dark knight rises theater shooting I didn't want to go to the theater. Sad we even have to think about these things.

[Gelston]

To be fair, your chances of being around an event like this are astoundingly low in the US.

[Allereli]

saying "wouldn't be surprised" is not a conclusion. He obviously worked on the base and had credentials where they would just let him in. Everyone goes through metal detectors at every government building. Do the bases not have metal detectors? or was he/they authorized to carry?

[Gelston]

saying "wouldn't be surprised" is not a conclusion. He obviously worked on the base and had credentials where they would just let him in. Everyone goes through metal detectors at every government building. Do the bases not have metal detectors? or was he/they authorized to carry?

It isn't that hard to get onto a military base. Hell, in California the city buses go straight through Camp Pendleton.

There are usually only metal detectors in certain areas, and usually only when the public has a lot of access. Either way, if you are planning on going on a shooting rampage, and there are 3 of you, I don't think a metal detection check point will stop you. Seeing as it said one of their victims was military police personnel. "The local ABC affiliate reported on Twitter that a military police officer had been shot in the legs and the shooter had multiple guns."

[Taernath]

To be fair, your chances of being around an event like this are astoundingly low in the US.

You would never know if you pay attention to certain media outlets.

[Taernath]

It isn't that hard to get onto a military base. Hell, in California the city buses go straight through Camp Pendleton.

Yeah, and the Air Force base near me has 4 foot high brick walls right outside where they keep their jets.

[Gelston]

Heh, I got on base by flashing a phone card once.

[Tgo01]

Do the bases not have metal detectors? or was he/they authorized to carry?

Are you under the impression every "gun free zone" has metal detectors/security checking people for weapons? Aren't all public schools gun free zones? Don't only the really bad ones like in Detroit actually have metal detectors?

[Gelston]

Are you under the impression every "gun free zone" has metal detectors/security checking people for weapons? Aren't all public schools gun free zones? Don't only the really bad ones like in Detroit actually have metal detectors?

We had metal detectors in my HS! And an armed deputy and we all had to wear ID cards.

[Allereli]

Are you under the impression every "gun free zone" has metal detectors/security checking people for weapons? Aren't all public schools gun free zones? Don't only the really bad ones like in Detroit actually have metal detectors?

No I'm under the impression that this was a government facility and every government facility I've entered in all my time in DC has had metal detectors.

But news has come in that they don't send any credentialed people (wtf after Ft. Hood) through the metal detectors. The shooter was using a former employee's credentials.

[Gelston]

No I'm under the impression that this was a government facility and every government facility I've entered in all my time in DC has had metal detectors.

You haven't been to many military facilities have you? Yeah, court houses and stuff have metal detectors. Most military facilities don't.

[cwolff]

Wasn't the part of Fort Hood where that shooting happened a gun free zone?

I don't know if it was gun free but Hasan did get shot to pieces by the police who responded. One of them, Officer Kimberly Muny exchanged fire from as close as 8ft away but her beretta jammed and the only thing that saved her life is that Hasan's weapon was malfunctioning also.

[Gelston]

I don't know if it was gun free but Hasan did get shot to pieces by the police who responded. One of them, Officer Kimberly Muny exchanged fire from as close as 8ft away but her beretta jammed and the only thing that saved her life is that Hasan's weapon was malfunctioning also.

She must have the same shitty mags they issue the military.

[Allereli]

You haven't been to many military facilities have you? Yeah, court houses and stuff have metal detectors. Most military facilities don't.

Even DOT and the Reagan Building have metal detectors

The Botanical Gardens, too

[Gelston]

Even DOT and the Reagan Building have metal detectors

That is great, but it still isn't the Department of Defense. Most places DO have people walking around with weapons and such as part of their job. I don't know the NavSea building though, they may very well have a detector in there. I don't think it would have made any difference in this case. They'd have started shooting at the metal detector instead of wherever they were. Unless they did have on and that is what they did.

[cwolff]

Even DOT and the Reagan Building have metal detectors

Military bases are HUGE. They cover a lot of real estate and they are generally open to the public with day use areas, visitors and all the civilian services that the military contracts. It's not really practical to control entry like it's a stand alone building.


“This is a huge piece of land with several building so it’s going to take some time for us to get through it and search it so we can make sure it’s safe,” Peter Newsham, assistant chief of the Washington police, told reporters.

[Gelston]

That is another thing. This location has DOZENS of high profile buildings. The Yard isn't so much a Naval Yard anymore... It is actually the Administrative head of the entire US Navy. The CNO is there, the heads of most of the major Naval Commands, such as Systems Command, which was attacked, are there. They never would have gotten to any of the really sensitive areas though. There are literally 2 foot thick vault doors to some places.

[Tisket]

It's the Navy. They should have just thrown a boat at the shooter.

[cwolff]

Damn Texans!


Several sources identify dead gunman as Aaron Alexis, 34, originally of Fort Worth, Texas. Officials say he recently began working as a civilian contractor.

[Gelston]

Hm, wonder what his job was.

[Allereli]

They just cancelled the baseball game.

[Parkbandit]

Hm, wonder what his job was.

I'm going with Postal Service.

[cwolff]

Hm, wonder what his job was.

Ya right. Could be anything from a garbage man to a Top Secret security clearance.

[Atlanteax]

STRATFOR's current breakdown:


A shooting was reported to have occurred shortly after 8 a.m. local time in the U.S. Naval Sea Systems Command Headquarters building on the Washington Navy Yard in southeast Washington, D.C. The building and Naval Yard are now under lockdown, prohibiting military personnel and civilians from entering and exiting the building and base.

There are conflicting reports as to the total number of shooters and casualties. Initial reports indicated that there was a single shooter, dressed in black and equipped with an assault rifle, but two shooters have been reported and are said to be incapacitated, according to Washington Navy Yard Public Affairs Director Ed Ziegler. Two additional people have been apprehended for questioning, but whether they were involved in the shooting or connected in any way is unkown. Eight deaths and 10-12 injuries have been reported.

The Navy Yard is the U.S. Navy’s oldest shore establishment and the current headquarters for several of the Navy’s commands, including the Chief of Naval Operations, and has approximately 3,000 employees. Thus, it could be an attractive target for attackers. The Naval Sea Systems Command Headquarters is where decisions on planning, commissioning, and purchasing the Navy’s ships, submarines and combat systems are made. There is extensive security throughout the building and at the entrance. An individual not connected to the naval base and not employed in the building would find it difficult to access the building or personnel. Even entering the Naval Yard without proper identification and approval would prove difficult.

The latest mass attack on a military establishment occurred in 2009 at Fort Hood in Texas, when U.S. Army Major Nidal Malik Hasan opened fire, killing 13 people and injuring 30. He was sentenced to death last month for the attack.

Because of the difficulty of entering and exiting the Navy Yard and the building, and because of the large size of the facility, it will take time to clear and secure the building. However, at this point it is too early to ascribe a motive or to identify the suspect or suspects involved.

[Tsk Tsk]

Even DOT and the Reagan Building have metal detectors

The Botanical Gardens, too

I assure you that every military/government building doesn't have metal detectors. I've never been through a metal detector in any building at the 3 Army Bases I've been to/stationed at... and I've been in a lot of buildings.

[Latrinsorm]

This is a tragedy. However, this guys name has to be fake.Also my reaction.
But yeah, military bases are generally gun free except for people in training (at ranges), MPs, Civilian Contract security, and the other various security details out there(such as armory guards and stuff).I think we are having some miscommunication about what "gun free" entails.
Heh, I got on base by flashing a phone card once.Reported.

If anyone can tell me the difference between what Allereli did and what you people did wondering if the attackers in Boston were from the Middle East, I'd love to hear it.

[Gelston]

If anyone can tell me the difference between what Allereli did and what you people did wondering if the attackers in Boston were from the Middle East, I'd love to hear it.

I said the attackers were from the middle east?


Also my reaction.I think we are having some miscommunication about what "gun free" entails.Reported.


Okay, in that case, no where is gun-free. Note the last (or one of the last) sentence from that post you quoted. I specifically said "privately owned" in there.

[diethx]

"gun free" entails

Totally read this as "gun free" entrails. Disappoint.

[Latrinsorm]

I said the attackers were from the middle east?You didn't say it, but I knew you were thinking it. Yay, my first chance to co-opt crb's new line! :)

My comment was addressed in general, which is why I said "anyone" rather than "you, Gelston of the clan Gelston,".
Okay, in that case, no where is gun-free. Note the last (or one of the last) sentence from that post you quoted. I specifically said "privately owned" in there.I note every sentence in your posts with great interest. I don't think it's unfair to say that a school-type gun free zone where there are maybe one or two security guards is what Allereli had in mind, whereas Queen B was intentionally using a broader and therefore less meaningful sense of the term to score points for her personal philosophies.

[Methais]

saying "wouldn't be surprised" is not a conclusion.

Semantics.


He obviously worked on the base and had credentials where they would just let him in. Everyone goes through metal detectors at every government building. Do the bases not have metal detectors? or was he/they authorized to carry?

The Fort Hood shooter was a psychiatrist, and definitely not MP.

[Tsk Tsk]

I guess it was just firecrackers thrown over the fence. Man, that guy had me worried for a minute.

[Tisket]

If anyone can tell me the difference between what Allereli did and what you people did wondering if the attackers in Boston were from the Middle East, I'd love to hear it.

Had anyone continued to speculate and defend their belief even after being corrected, then yes, you'd have a valid comparison.

[cwolff]

According to a bio released by the U.S. Navy, Alexis was a full-time reservist from 2007 to 2011. He left the Navy on Jan. 31, 2011, as a petty officer 3rd class and had been working for the fleet logistics support squadron No. 46 in Fort Worth.

Washington Mayor Vincent Gray said Alexis was shot during a gun battle with officers.

Alexis was arrested in Fort Worth in 2010 for discharging a firearm in city limits, police records show. Alexis told police he had fired the gun accidentally when he was cleaning it, according to a police report filed with the Tarrant County Criminal District Attorney's Office. Charges were never filed.

Alexis was also arrested in Seattle in 2004, according to the Seattle Police Department, for "shooting out the tires of another man’s vehicle in what Alexis later described as an anger-fueled 'blackout.'"

A Navy official told Reuters Alexis received a general discharge from the Navy in 2011 "after a series of misconduct issues."

Surprised he was able to enlist after shooting a vehicle in an anger fueled blackout. Sounds like he was on active duty when he did that then got out and re-upped in the reserves.

[Gelston]

Where are you seeing active duty?

[cwolff]

Where are you seeing active duty?

On CNN, not in that article. They are reporting that he was active in 04 when he shot the vehicle.

[Gelston]

From what I have seen so far, looks like he just got mad about something and decided to fuck up other people's lives. From what has been reported on him so far he has a history of anger issues.

[SHAFT]

To be fair, your chances of being around an event like this are astoundingly low in the US.

That's what I tell myself whenever it comes to mind. Plus I believe I am impervious to bullets and would likely survive the event. I have no evidence to prove this idea, just a hunch.

[senorgordoburro]

That's what I tell myself whenever it comes to mind. Plus I believe I am impervious to bullets and would likely survive the event. I have no evidence to prove this idea, just a hunch.

Proof: You have not been killed by a bullet yet

[4a6c1]

This is heartbreaking. When I heard it might be a contractor I immediately thought of the furloughs. Many, MANY people are angry over recent budget cuts. Not that this is in any way justified but there will always be unstable personalities who react in this way. I've been talking about polygraphing everyone who touches the transportation equipment, to detect these sort of psychological issues for a while now. It's a requirement for defense contractors who handle even a tiny bit of intelligence information, why not throw the routine at people who handle our million dollar equipment as well? Not that this would change things if this guy happened to be a janitor. As things are now, the trend seems to be for less due diligence once a contractor is in the federal system when I think it should be the opposite. Interviewing ad nauseum, negative questioning, polygraph. Sometimes a defense contractor can flit through the system for 5 years with only having done their original background check on active duty. I really hate this because I've met some oddballs I really did not like working with. I think everyone should be reevaluated at each new posting, so every six months to a year. But that's tax dollars so I guess a no go.

[AnticorRifling]

Polys are such a shit method.

[Gelston]

Polys are such a shit method.

That. Even "experts" get shit wrong with them all the time.

[Atlanteax]

I recall reading somewhere that dude had an history of mental illness, but the Navy did not yank/nullify his clearance (yet), which was how he was on the base.

[Gelston]

I was seeing on the news last night that he was using someone else's ID too. I don't know why he would need to use one if he was cleared to go on the base anyways. Maybe by ID they mean a security badge. Or maybe they are stupid and making stuff up.

[Tisket]

I was seeing on the news last night that he was using someone else's ID too. I don't know why he would need to use one if he was cleared to go on the base anyways. Maybe by ID they mean a security badge. Or maybe they are stupid and making stuff up.

Or maybe he was stupid and thought he'd somehow not get caught.

[cwolff]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/17/20535835-navy-yard-shooter-reported-hearing-voices-6-weeks-before-spree-police-say?lite

Sounds like this guy was just losing his mind. Might not be a rationale motive, just insanity.

[Slider]

Speaking as someone who is rather familier with the "security" of Naval Stations, I can honestly say that they are a joke. I have worked at base security at Naval Stations in Mayport FL, NS Newport RI, NAS Corpus Christi TX, and NS Ingleside TX and on any one of those, you could literally walk on base without so much as showing an ID card at several different locations. Hell, there are locations on all of those bases where there isn't even so much as a chain link fence between the base and the area around it, and where there isn't even a guard posted untill after 6 PM. And if the car your driving has a base sticker, you can get on and they don't even bother to see if you are the owner of the bloody car, let alone check your ID.

And once your on base? 99% of the buildings you can get into without showing an ID card, even if your not in uniform. And metel detectors? On a military base? Never seen one. See that would require senior officers to go through them, inconveniencing them mightily, thus they are nowhere to be found. An admiral having to empty his pockets to walk through one? Pfft, yeah, right.

Just to give you an idea of how bad it was, every year or so, every Naval station has to go through a security audit, where basically the SEALS get to play on your base and see how much mayhem they can cause. Now to facilitate a "fair and equitable" assessment, the base in qquestion is given a complete itinerary of exactly what the SEALS are going to be doing on each day of the exercise. What buildings they are going to be attempting to gain access to, the time they are doing it, EVERYTHING. And guess what? They still manage to do it, every fucking time. Hell, the last "assessment" I went through at Mayport FL, they walked into our Police HQ's, took every single officer there "hostage" and before an hour had gone by, had the entire on-duty police dep't locked up in their own fucking cells where they held them for the entire night. After warning them that they where going to be doing so that same morning.

And this just in http://news.msn.com/us/year-long-audit-of-navy-security-showed-flaws

[Gelston]

WASHINGTON -- The former Navy reservist who slaughtered 12 people at the Washington Navy Yard had been hearing voices and was being treated for mental problems in the weeks before the shooting rampage, but was not stripped of his security clearance, officials said Tuesday.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/09/17/navy-yard-gunman-was-hearing-voices.html?ESRC=marine.nl

[subzero]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipAyYSaCfZA

[Latrinsorm]

I know what the Constitution says, but it's time to consider a ban on security clearances. With computers these days why not just run a background check every time a citizen enters or exits a building?

[subzero]

I know what the Constitution says, but it's time to consider a ban on security clearances. With computers these days why not just run a background check every time a citizen enters or exits a building?

Spooks have no background. How could they enter buildings that require a background check then?!

[Taernath]

Spooks have no background. How could they enter buildings that require a background check then?!

It's like how Star Wars people dealt with the Yuuzhan Vong. They had to scan for an absence of Force (background) to detect them.

Personally I think we just need to invest in precrime detection and ban mental illness.

[Gelston]

It's like how Star Wars people dealt with the Yuuzhan Vong. They had to scan for an absence of Force (background) to detect them.


Don't bring the chinese into this.

[Taernath]

The Chinese are already here

[Gelston]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YMWqbgPK138/TF7FBOLdg7I/AAAAAAAACvI/LLrHvGV9O_Q/s1600/AFewGoodMen.jpg

[Tgo01]

When this first happened the first few articles I read made darn sure to point out as often as possible that an assault rifle was found with the shooter. Now I don't see any mention of an assault rifle and apparently he was just originally armed with a shotgun and took a police officer's pistol. Was there an assault rifle? Was it used? Was the media just making that up again because assault rifles are bad?

[Gelston]

When this first happened the first few articles I read made darn sure to point out as often as possible that an assault rifle was found with the shooter. Now I don't see any mention of an assault rifle and apparently he was just originally armed with a shotgun and took a police officer's pistol. Was there an assault rifle? Was it used? Was the media just making that up again because assault rifles are bad?

Article I read yesterday said he had an AR-15, a shot gun, and a pistol he took off a cop.

[TheEschaton]

You know us liberals. Shotguns, assault rifles, they're all long guns, they must be the same, right?

[Tgo01]

Article I read yesterday said he had an AR-15, a shot gun, and a pistol he took off a cop.

Exactly, that was yesterday, facts change from day to day apparently. Or maybe this article just didn't mention it.


WASHINGTON -- Through a wall at his Rhode Island hotel, Aaron Alexis could hear them – voices harassing him, wanting to harm him. He couldn't sleep. He believed people were following him, using a microwave machine to send vibrations to his body. He changed hotels once, then again. But he called police and told them he couldn't get away from the voices.

On Aug. 7, police alerted officials at the Newport Naval Station about the naval defense contractor's call. But officers didn't hear from him again.

By Aug. 25, Alexis had left the state. The 34-year-old arrived in the Washington area, continuing his work as an information technology employee for a defense-related computer company. Again, he spent nights in different hotels. He suffered from serious mental problems, including paranoia and a sleep disorder, and was undergoing treatment from the Department of Veterans Affairs, according to the law enforcement officials.

But Alexis wasn't stripped of his security clearance, and he kept working.

On Saturday, he visited Sharpshooters Small Arms Range in Lorton, Va., about 18 miles southwest of the nation's capital. He rented a rifle, bought bullets and took target practice at the 16-lane indoor range, then bought a shotgun and 24 shells, according to the store's attorney.

Two days later, as the workweek dawned, Alexis entered the sprawling Washington Navy Yard, a 41-acre labyrinth of buildings protected by armed guards and metal detectors where employees must show IDs to get past doors and gates. Authorities believe he drove a rental car there.

He was equipped with his pass for base access – and the shotgun. Within minutes, it would create mayhem.

He stepped inside the massive Building 197, home to some 3,000 employees. He opened fire around 8:15 a.m., raining shotgun blasts down from a fourth-floor overlook and third-floor hallway into a glass-walled cafeteria where employees were eating breakfast. Trained tactical officers arrived, bursting through the building within seven minutes of the first 911 call, and Alexis shot at them, too.

Fire alarms blared, and officers had a hard time hearing one another. A voice came on the overhead speaker telling workers to seek shelter – and later, to head for the gates at the complex. A U.S. Park Police helicopter flew overhead, plucking a wounded woman from the roof with a rescue basket while a crew member armed with a rifle provided cover.

"We have a report on the fourth floor, a male with a shotgun, multiple shots fired, multiple people down. We're still waiting for the OK that the scene has been secured," an ambulance crew member says on emergency transmissions posted on Broadcastify.com, a source of live public safety audio feeds.

More dispatches followed: Shooter known to be in the main gate area. Officer down on the third floor. Female on the roof, shot in the shoulder.

Once inside, Alexis picked a handgun off an officer and, armed with two weapons, terrorized the building's occupants.

He fired relentlessly not only at police who engaged him but at the workers inside: a 61-year-old marine engineer and grandfather who immigrated to the U.S. years ago from India, a Navy veteran and avid pilot who had once been stationed at Pearl Harbor, a die-hard Washington Redskins fan known for generous bear hugs. A Washington police officer was shot multiple times in the legs but survived.

"We just started running," said Patricia Ward, who was in the cafeteria when the shooting began. She said she heard three gunshots in a row, followed by several more.

Descriptions from witnesses and police paint a portrait of harrowing gun battles inside – all for more than half an hour. The FBI, which launched a nationwide active shooter training program for local law enforcement after last December's Connecticut elementary school massacre, says the average mass shooting is over within minutes and often ends once police arrive.

But this gun battle kept going. As the chaos unraveled inside, police in the nation's capital shut down the surrounding area. Nearby schools went on lockdown, flights were halted at Reagan National Airport, and even after Alexis was mortally wounded by a police officer, officers chased leads that a second and possibly a third gunman had been working with him.

Twelve victims died – a body count that police say could have been much higher, even after they determined that the gunman had worked alone. Eight were injured, with all expected to survive.

The Navy said several garages and all surface parking lots at the Washington Navy Yard would open Wednesday for employees to retrieve their private vehicles. But the military installation would reopen for business for Mission Essential personnel only. In a posting on its Facebook page, the Navy said the yard remains an active crime scene.

Access to Building 197, the site of Monday's shooting, was prohibited.

More than 24 hours after the shooting, the motive remained a mystery. U.S. law enforcement officials told The Associated Press that investigators had found no manifesto or other writings suggesting a political or religious motivation.

Ron Machen, the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia, ticked off some of the unanswered questions Tuesday.

"What caused this individual to kill so many innocent men and women? How did he carry out and plan this attack? How did he get access to the weapons? What could have been done to prevent this tragedy? And most importantly, whether anyone else aided or assisted him either wittingly or unwittingly in this tragedy?"

Machen added, "We're not going to stop until we get answers to those questions."

[Tgo01]

You know us liberals. Shotguns, assault rifles, they're all long guns, they must be the same, right?

They're all long, black, scary and make loud noises.

[Gelston]

Actually, according to this article - http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/navy-yard-gunman-struggled-mental-issues-officials-article-1.1458281

He had a Remington 870. He rented and fired an AR-15 at a gun range prior, but he wasn't able to buy one due to him being from out of state and them having restrictions.

[Taernath]

I read the initial article, then wait a few more days before reading anything else. By then there's usually more concrete info out.

[Tgo01]

Actually, according to this article - http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/navy-yard-gunman-struggled-mental-issues-officials-article-1.1458281

He had a Remington 870. He rented and fired an AR-15 at a gun range prior, but he wasn't able to buy one due to him being from out of state and them having restrictions.

I just realized, can you just walk into a gun store, give them money and walk home with a gun in the same day? I thought there was like a 3 day waiting period or something? Or was that just "back in the day" because it took that long to hear back from the background check because there was a time before computers existed?

Not that a waiting period would have done much I'm sure.


I read the initial article, then wait a few more days before reading anything else. By then there's usually more concrete info out.

That's crazy talk.

[Tgo01]

I'm now seeing people saying this should have been seen a mile away because the police reported his strange phone call and such. What was supposed to be done though? Can you imagine how many phone calls from people saying crazy shit the police must get every day? Are we supposed to storm their houses, drag them out and throw them all in a mental institution?

[Gelston]

I just realized, can you just walk into a gun store, give them money and walk home with a gun in the same day? I thought there was like a 3 day waiting period or something? Or was that just "back in the day" because it took that long to hear back from the background check because there was a time before computers existed?
.

I've never had to wait to get a weapon, and I've always bought brand new. They have always had me fill out a 2 page form and they'd run my license. I think that just checks for felonies and stuff though. I believe it varies by state though.

[TheEschaton]

Once more, AR is right, and we need to do something about mental health in this country.

[Atlanteax]

Once more, AR is right, and we need to do something about mental health in this country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanwell_Asylum

[Tisket]

This is heartbreaking. When I heard it might be a contractor I immediately thought of the furloughs. Many, MANY people are angry over recent budget cuts. Not that this is in any way justified but there will always be unstable personalities who react in this way. I've been talking about polygraphing everyone who touches the transportation equipment, to detect these sort of psychological issues for a while now. It's a requirement for defense contractors who handle even a tiny bit of intelligence information, why not throw the routine at people who handle our million dollar equipment as well? Not that this would change things if this guy happened to be a janitor. As things are now, the trend seems to be for less due diligence once a contractor is in the federal system when I think it should be the opposite. Interviewing ad nauseum, negative questioning, polygraph. Sometimes a defense contractor can flit through the system for 5 years with only having done their original background check on active duty. I really hate this because I've met some oddballs I really did not like working with. I think everyone should be reevaluated at each new posting, so every six months to a year. But that's tax dollars so I guess a no go.

Yes, sure, why not. I mean we have a few extra billion dollars to make sure that everyone, including the janitor, is completely sane and doesn't have any life issues that might cause him stress. While we are at it, we should probably interview his family and known associates, as well as polygraphing him semiannually.

[Tisket]

we need to do something about mental health in this country.

A noble sentiment. What measures would you suggest? Should everyone undergo psychological testing? And at what age? And how often? Who gets burdened with the cost, the person being tested? Or are you talking about people already identified as having mental health issues?

I am sincerely curious.

[Gelston]

A noble sentiment. What measures would you suggest? Should everyone undergo psychological testing? And at what age? And how often?

I am sincerely curious.

Daily. All forum posts should be read as a part of this testing too.

Seriously though, after some sort of event that would imply possible fuckedintheheadedness, they should get a consult. Especially folks with clearances. Of course, the nation being as large as it is, I could see it being all sorts of messed up.

[Tisket]

Daily. All forum posts should be read as a part of this testing too.

Seriously though, after some sort of event that would imply possible fuckedintheheadedness, they should get a consult. Especially folks with clearances. Of course, the nation being as large as it is, I could see it being all sorts of messed up.

That's crazytalk. The government goons are gonna get you.

[Latrinsorm]

A noble sentiment. What measures would you suggest? Should everyone undergo psychological testing? And at what age? And how often?

I am sincerely curious.The biggest barrier is not cost but the stigma associated with mental health. Telling someone they might be physically ill is ignored. Telling someone they might be mentally ill is an insult.

People absolutely should undergo mandatory mental health screenings from childhood in the same way they undergo mandatory physical health screenings, not least because of the unbelievable child abuse epidemic in this country. But it will not happen anywhere in the near future, because people are (and have always been) more concerned with stigma and pride than reason.

[Atlanteax]

The biggest barrier is not cost but the stigma associated with mental health. Telling someone they might be physically ill is ignored. Telling someone they might be mentally ill is an insult.

Sorta like how with the education system, the biggest barrier is not cost, but telling parents that their kid may not be as bright as they think he/she is and to lower expectations from an A in every class, and a trophy for every activity, which can be taken as an insult?

[Latrinsorm]

Sorta like how with the education system, the biggest barrier is not cost, but telling parents that their kid may not be as bright as they think he/she is and to lower expectations from an A in every class, and a trophy for every activity, which can be taken as an insult?I think the primary issue is cost but in the manpower rather than monetary sense. The kids who are left furthest behind have no parental interaction whatsoever, the scourge of the suburban helicopter parent is not so universal as our (yours and my and by no means Terrence's) personal experience would suggest.

[subzero]

Exactly, that was yesterday, facts change from day to day apparently. Or maybe this article just didn't mention it.

I think the problem is just how fast shit travels these days. Everyone has a phone, twitter, etc and are able to pop on anywhere and spout off whatever they want. That's how you get multiple shooters out of a single guy in a situation like this. Multiple people reporting a guy shooting in different areas with different guns sounds to the internet like there has to be more than one guy, right? Used to be that media outlets would have at least two valid sources before they went on air with stuff. Now they're pulling info from the internet and relaying it because no one wants to be last in that awesome news race. It results in clusterfucks where you have all sorts of misinformation based on assumptions and inaccurate reports from people that might be freaking out.

[subzero]

I mean we have a few extra billion dollars to make sure that everyone, including the janitor, is completely sane and doesn't have any life issues that might cause him stress.

We could have plenty of extra money if we weren't wasting it by the fuckload in some war on terrah. And that isn't even really the problem. Those fucks don't play by the same rules we do; they want money they can take it or make it.

[Tisket]

We should go to war to enforce mandatory psychological testing. That's clearly the answer.

[Warriorbird]

We should go to war to enforce mandatory psychological testing. That's clearly the answer.

Latrin is Skynet.

[TheEschaton]

I'd say having mental health screenings as a standard part of a yearly physical could be a good thing. I don't know, the area is so nebulous I hesitate to suggest the trite answer of "Hey, don't ignore the guy who says he's hearing voices in his head." I'm not well versed in the area but the fluidity of mental health in general suggests any screening might quickly get out of hand, like the effort to curb violence in schools has. I mean, what if you have a bad day and shout at someone "I'll kill you, motherfucker!" and that automatically triggered a psych eval? That'd be a problem, cause I say that at least once a week.

[Tgo01]

I mean, what if you have a bad day and shout at someone "I'll kill you, motherfucker!" and that automatically triggered a psych eval? That'd be a problem, cause I say that at least once a week.

Yeah that's the sort of thing I was getting at earlier; imagine if every time someone said something that might be construed as crazy that they get dragged away and subjected to some exam to determine if they are unstable?

Heck half the PC would be locked up any given time.

[TheEschaton]

At least I'm calmer than you are, dude.

[Gelston]

Well, if someone doesn't have the self control to prevent themselves from yelling shit out like that in an office environment, perhaps they should see someone for a little anger management.

[TheEschaton]

But Gelston, what if they're really fucking stupid?

[Tgo01]

At least I'm calmer than you are, dude.

:(

[Gelston]

But Gelston, what if they're really fucking stupid?

Fire them.

[subzero]

Well, if someone doesn't have the self control to prevent themselves from yelling shit out like that in an office environment, perhaps they should see someone for a little anger management.

Tourette's?

[Gelston]

Tourette's?

Most Tourette's isn't the cool kind though. If they are undiagnosed with it, then they would be and it helps them out!

[Atlanteax]

I'd say having mental health screenings as a standard part of a yearly physical could be a good thing. I don't know, the area is so nebulous I hesitate to suggest the trite answer of "Hey, don't ignore the guy who says he's hearing voices in his head." I'm not well versed in the area but the fluidity of mental health in general suggests any screening might quickly get out of hand, like the effort to curb violence in schools has. I mean, what if you have a bad day and shout at someone "I'll kill you, motherfucker!" and that automatically triggered a psych eval? That'd be a problem, cause I say that at least once a week.

Security in Schools = gotten out of hand (suspended if eat a pop-tart into the shape of a gun, expelled for a fist fight with a bully)
Security at Airports = TSA, enough said
Protection against Malpractice = Test for Everything!!

It is pretty much assured that any sort of mental health screenings would get out of hand too.

Society apparently does not understanding how exponential costs increases (in $$, time, manpower, etc) are when you're trying to reduce that "bad thing happening" from say 0.5% of the time, to 0.00001%.

[cwolff]

Does anyone have details on the shooting? I understand he was on a 4th floor indoor balcony with a shotgun and 2 handguns and was shooting down into the lobby area. What ammunition do you think would have been in that shotgun? 12 gauge? Did he get most of his kills with the shotgun or the handguns and what distances are we talking about?

[Gelston]

He had a Remington 870, so a 12 gauge, and a 9mm pistol he took off an officer.

Wikipedia has a decent description of the events from what has been verified...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Navy_Yard_shooting

[Taernath]

http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p712/dtbrown082/994338_595960600447285_1119641006_n_zps6b31e2d7.jp g

[cwolff]

He had a Remington 870, so a 12 gauge, and a 9mm pistol he took off an officer.

Wikipedia has a decent description of the events from what has been verified...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Navy_Yard_shooting

No gun law that's ever been realistically considered would have stopped this. It doesn't slow down the gun control lobby though.

[Latrinsorm]

Security in Schools = gotten out of hand (suspended if eat a pop-tart into the shape of a gun, expelled for a fist fight with a bully)
Security at Airports = TSA, enough said
Protection against Malpractice = Test for Everything!!

It is pretty much assured that any sort of mental health screenings would get out of hand too.

Society apparently does not understanding how exponential costs increases (in $$, time, manpower, etc) are when you're trying to reduce that "bad thing happening" from say 0.5% of the time, to 0.00001%.If you honestly believe 99.5% of the population has or would have a clean bill of medical health, you're kidding yourself.

[cwolff]

If you honestly believe 99.5% of the population has or would have a clean bill of medical health, you're kidding yourself.

In regards to being healthy enough not to grab a gun and go shoot a dozen people at work then more than 99.5% are healthy.

[AnticorRifling]

http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p712/dtbrown082/994338_595960600447285_1119641006_n_zps6b31e2d7.jp g

That's sad and hilarious all at the same time.

[Gelston]

That's sad and hilarious all at the same time.

Good thing he didn't have this...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Rsyw6A-605Q/S7eCAyZQ2PI/AAAAAAAAAnE/NtmXu1AO66o/s400/gunporn-usas12-blog.jpg

[Tgo01]

http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p712/dtbrown082/994338_595960600447285_1119641006_n_zps6b31e2d7.jp g

Took me a minute to catch that, that's hilarious.

[Latrinsorm]

In regards to being healthy enough not to grab a gun and go shoot a dozen people at work then more than 99.5% are healthy.I feel my interpretation is more justified considering the mention of medical malpractice.

[Tisket]

Heck half the PC would be locked up any given time.

I'd.be okay with this as long as I get my own room. I'm not bunking with any of you lunatics.

[cwolff]

I feel my interpretation is more justified considering the mention of medical malpractice.

Malpractice isn't the problem. It's just another red herring that terrifies us for some reason and distracts the population from asking real questions about why the costs are going so high.

[subzero]

No gun law that's ever been realistically considered would have stopped this. It doesn't slow down the gun control lobby though.

Everyone has their own crusade, I guess. Something bad happens and hits national media, you know the crusaders are going to put on their shiny armor and start shouting. Like all the idiots getting pissed and using the 'for Trayvon' excuse to go out and beat someone down. Not only do those idiots not know or give a shit about Treyvon Martin, but they never once mentioned a non-Martin Treyvon that was shot and killed after the whole Zimmerman thing went down. You'd think if such things pissed them off so bad they'd try to clean up their neighborhoods, values, and way of life. (Yep, racist. More black people kill black people than white/hispanics do) I guess it's more fun to jump on the bandwagon.

[Parkbandit]

He had a Remington 870, so a 12 gauge, and a 9mm pistol he took off an officer.

Wikipedia has a decent description of the events from what has been verified...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Navy_Yard_shooting

I blame Biden:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHZ7zXLvOkY

[subzero]

I blame Biden:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHZ7zXLvOkY

You can't blame him. He never said to buy an AR15 Shotgun!

Side note: I think someone is squeezing the "interviewer's" balls.

[Tgo01]

I love how he tells the world how many bullets someone needs to protect themselves. Seriously how did this guy ever get elected into any office?

[Warriorbird]

I love how he tells the world how many bullets someone needs to protect themselves. Seriously how did this guy ever get elected into any office?

Best Democratic troll ever.

[Latrinsorm]

I'd.be okay with this as long as I get my own room. I'm not bunking with any of you lunatics.I keep my room very clean! I'm also a very restless sleeper so you know I'd at least get off a yelp to warn you (as they were finishing me off) if someone came in to harm us, and yes that is a very relevant concern in a mental ward.

In conclusion, I am shocked and hurt by your non-endorsement, and hope you will reconsider for the best interests of all parties involved.

[Tisket]

I keep my room very clean! I'm also a very restless sleeper so you know I'd at least get off a yelp to warn you (as they were finishing me off) if someone came in to harm us, and yes that is a very relevant concern in a mental ward.

In conclusion, I am shocked and hurt by your non-endorsement, and hope you will reconsider for the best interests of all parties involved.

In the interest of furthering universal surveillance, you'd probably film me while I slept. I'm on to you, bub.

[Latrinsorm]

In the interest of furthering universal surveillance, you'd probably film me while I slept. I'm on to you, bub.What would the point of that be? Unless... you're a somnmurderer! Bunk buddies annulled!!!

[Taernath]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-september-17-2013/wrongnado---cnn?xrs=synd_twitter_091913_tds_36

[Gelston]

Yeah, saw that the other night. Spot on!

[Tgo01]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-september-17-2013/wrongnado---cnn?xrs=synd_twitter_091913_tds_36

"We understand he was wearing a black top and black jeans, what could that tell us about a possible motive." HA!