When does it get out of hand??

[Trinitis]

Ok, since I started High School, there was always a "battle" of sorts between the students, and the school board about what is acceptable to wear to school. When I was there, you could not wear all black, or all red, or all blue. You could not wear Big Johnson's T-Shirts, or of course anything with questionable content.

Well, this morning, I am listening to the radio like I do every morning, and a news bit comes on about local schools. Yesterday was the first day of class, and 2 students were sent home yesterday for dressing too "Goth". WTF? This is getting out of hand..

Next thing you know, your not going to be allowed to dress this way or that way because you look too much like a "Wiccan" or a "Cowboy". Its insaine!

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Yeah, I think school uniforms need to come back.

[Kriztian]

As a teacher I'll be the first to agree with you. The oft-quoted caveat in most school districts uses the Supreme Court's words from Tinker v. Des Moines. That is, when the dress is deemed to interfere with the educational process, a teacher or administrator has the authority to take action.

I, for one, agree with you that many go to far. For instance, my principal announced NO HEAD GEAR (of any type) this year at all.

It's rubbish. How does a baseball cap interfere with the educational process? You decide.

[Edited on 9-1-2004 by Kriztian]

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I also think kids need to show respect to their teachers, along with dressing appropriately for a school environment.

[Miss X]

Shit, you don't wear uniforms in highschool in the US? Over here its practically unheard of to not wear a uniform in school. I always fully supported it, except I hated wearing a tie.

When I was in sixth form college (we do college for 2 years before university) we were allowed to wear most things except jeans. That pissed me off because I cant see the logic behind jeans preventing you from learning. We were adults and still getting sent home for wearing the wrong thing!

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Miss X
Shit, you don't wear uniforms in highschool in the US? Over here its practically unheard of to not wear a uniform in school. I always fully supported it, except I hated wearing a tie.


Kids wear whatever here, as long as the shirts aren't depicting drugs, alcohol, violence, sex, explicit words, etc.

I think they added the "visible thong" rule the year I graduated. Such a shame.

[Hips]

Originally posted by LordAdredrin
and 2 students were sent home yesterday for dressing too "Goth". WTF? This is getting out of hand..

...damn, am I glad I didn't go to that high school. :lol:
We had a dress code, but they never enforced it.

[Latrinsorm]

---><--- That's how much sympathy I have. Try going to school in long khakis, a dress shirt, dress shoes, and a tie every day.

As for baseball caps, maybe I'm spiritually as old as SHM or something, but I've never found it ok to be wearing a cap inside any building (domed stadiums as a sole exception), let alone a school.

[kheldarin]

Originally posted by Wezas

Originally posted by Miss X
Shit, you don't wear uniforms in highschool in the US? Over here its practically unheard of to not wear a uniform in school. I always fully supported it, except I hated wearing a tie.


Kids wear whatever here, as long as the shirts aren't depicting drugs, alcohol, violence, sex, explicit words, etc.

I think they added the "visible thong" rule the year I graduated. Such a shame.

God, I love visible thongs.

Baseball caps are the main thing used to identify gangs in my school. So I can see what they don't allow you to wear em inside.

[Czeska]

I have no issue with uniforms. I have no issue with jeans, either. The issue is that parents don't always like to teach their kids the meaning of the word "appropriate".

Our big treat in HS was that the last week of the year, the seniors got to wear shorts.

[Ilvane]

I personally think you should cover your body at school, no half shirts, not short skirts, no see through clothing, or thongs hanging out. I think it's about time that parents and teachers said.."Hey you are children, and you will do what I say until you are an adult"

You have a right to free expression to a point, but there are lines being crossed.

It's not acceptable in the workplace to have 5 piercings in your face, or dress inappropriately, and school is supposed to prepare you for that. When does the line stop on what kids can wear?

Not to mention, lots of kids this age are darned rude and think that's okay too. I'd like to go back to old fashioned manners and appropriate actions.

/rant

-A

[Edited on 9-1-2004 by Ilvane]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Ilvane
I think it's about time that parents and teachers said.."Hey you are children, and you will do what I say until you are an adult" I hope you're not serious.

I went to school with a lot of rude guys. And yet, they would inevitably behave when in certain teachers' classes. Do you think this was because the teacher was a vicious disciplinarian or because the teacher was a person worthy of our respect?

[Wezas]

Before my company was bought by a San Diego corporation - the only time we could wear shorts was on days where the heat index was 100+.

Now almost everyone wears shorts & t-shirts everyday. And a good portion of the people wear sandals (creepy guy feet :scared2: )

We are all programmers, analysts, and investigators - so we don't actually meet any people from outside our company.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

What do your managers wear Wezas? I tend to look up the food chain for indication of what I should be wearing. It is usually an indication of the "dress code" even if none exists.

[Wezas]

Basically the only one that actually might wear a pair of khakis and a 3 button shirt is the director. And he dresses down most days - unless he has to meet a client.

[Chelle]

I think it gets out of hand when they start labeling people for what colour they wear. Me, I do wear mostly black, not because I am wiccan ,but because it just looks nicer. Black has a classical look. I guess the goth label comes into play if the person wears tons of face paint. ie: white face with black outlined eyes.

I think if they're going to be as extreme as telling people not to wear all of one colour, then they should have uniforms. I think having uniforms is an excellent idea.

[Edited on 9-1-2004 by Chelle]

[imported_Kranar]

I'm not a fan of dress codes, pretty superficial if you ask me.

If you need to wear something or not wear something in order for your brain to process information or knowledge, then something is wrong with your brain.

That's my rather blunt opinion on the matter.

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Kranar
I'm not a fan of dress codes, pretty superficial if you ask me.

If you need to wear something or not wear something in order for your brain to process information or knowledge, then something is wrong with your brain.

That's my rather blunt opinion on the matte.

I don't think dress codes are so much for the people wearing the clothes as for the people who see them.

Example - 16 year old blonde with her thong hanging out. She can concentrate just fine. Boy sitting behind her in math class cannot.

In the workplace, while I feel that I work the same regardless of what I am wearing, I am inclined to be more professional around someone in a suit and tie than I am around someone in jeans and a T-shirt.

Superficial? Perhaps. We all are to some extent.

Edited to add that I went to Catholic school, so I grew up wearing uniforms. Say what you want, but kids in our school acted differently from kids in other schools. Of course, there's no way to prove that was a factor of the uniforms and not a factor of the "mouth off and get 6 AM detention for a week" rule.

Jorddyn

[Edited on 9-1-2004 by Jorddyn]

I coulda swore I made a post on this topic, but I don't see it.

[Ilvane]

So when does the sense of decency in what you wear come in? Should everyone be able to wear what ever they want?

I think a polished office look is more professional, as does a polished students look, just out of respect for the job, or learning.

-A

nm

[imported_Kranar]

<< Edited to add that I went to Catholic school, so I grew up wearing uniforms. Say what you want, but kids in our school acted differently from kids in other schools. Of course, there's no way to prove that was a factor of the uniforms and not a factor of the "mouth off and get 6 AM detention for a week" rule. >>

Basically my opinion comes from the differences between University and High School. University really comes to show just how petty and insignificant High School rules and regulations are.

No dress codes, no checking to see if you've done your homework or not, no teacher in your face making sure you're conforming to their standards.

You either learn or you get filtered out of the system quickly and unnoticibly.

That's how it should be.

None of this "Oh my God the girl in front of me is so hot that I can't think properly and my entire future is ruined now."

That's bull...

[Wezas]

I think a work dress code might not be too bad. There's this hot co-worker of mine who is very distracting.

Shame she's banging another co-worker, or I'd ...... still be too much of a wuss to make a move. She's out of my league.

[CrystalTears]

I feel that the difference is that college is optional and personal, as opposed to high school which you must complete in order to continue your education.

In college, you are there because you [mostly] want to be there. You are paying them to teach you. At that point you really don't see the rebellious nature that you do in high school kids. The ones who are there take it more seriously.

Now this is just my opinion from what I've seen and noticed personally, so don't take any of it as fact. We had our goths in college. Me! But we didn't take it to the point that high school kids do. There's a difference between rebelling and making sure you stick out in a crowd, and then being yourself.

[Adhara]

Originally posted by Kranar
You either learn or you get filtered out of the system quickly and unnoticibly.

That's how it should be.

I agree that this is how it should be in university but would you want the same thing for first graders? Probably not. First you teach, then you train, then you coach and finally you test. At 6 you tell them to do their homework and why they should do it. At 10 you associate consequences to not doing the homework. At 15 you highly recommend doing the homework and ensure that those who do see the benefit of it. At 18 or university level, it's test time. If you've learned how to be responsible for your own education you'll do fine. If not, bye bye.

As for the dress code, in my opinion a reasonable dress code is part of social and professional education. It can teach that there is a benefit to paying attention to how you dress for professional or social reasons. I went to a catholic highschool with a uniform. It has numerous advantages for teachers, parents and students alike. The only negative side to it that I can imagine is the lack of freedom in expressing yourself that way. Expressing yourself can be done in a number of other ways in those few years however so I consider the values learned well worth the sacrifice.

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Kranar
Basically my opinion comes from the differences between University and High School. University really comes to show just how petty and insignificant High School rules and regulations are.

No dress codes, no checking to see if you've done your homework or not, no teacher in your face making sure you're conforming to their standards.

You either learn or you get filtered out of the system quickly and unnoticibly.

That's how it should be.


Crystal Tears pointed out quite well why rules are different between high school and college. By law, many high school students cannot be filtered out. They have to be there.



None of this "Oh my God the girl in front of me is so hot that I can't think properly and my entire future is ruined now."

That's bull...

You were a 16 year old boy once, too. You have to know how it feels to be so... distracted.

Jorddyn

[Tsa`ah]

There are lines that are crossed for sure. I'm sorry Adri, but a Big Johnson T-shirt would have been an automatic send home in most schools.

Dressing too Goth, too punk and so forth is a judgment call, and in most cases the call goes bad.

When we delve into the area of school uniforms, there is one factor most people are forgetting. Social stigma. Not all kids that attend school are from well off families, and in cases of schools that have uniforms, they are a god send for poor families who have children in attendance via scholarship.

I always felt bed for the kids that had crappy clothes and the same clothes from their prior school year. Yes they were always clean, but kids are cruel and financial standing is pointed out very often. The kids who had came from well off families were normally more popular and the kids that came from nothing were generally alienated. The only exceptions were the kids that were very good in athletics, but the popularity they gained would only last as long as a particular sports season in most cases.

A uniform eliminates much of this by taking on social focus away. A poor kid in a uniform looks much like a rich kid in a uniform. They both hate them, but the poor kid won't dread attending another day of teasing and harassment, the rich kid keeps his mouth shut because he looks equally dorky, as do all of the lackeys.

[Shari]

This is a tricky topic. It would likely take FOREVER to set down a rule standard for your "goths", "cowboys", etc.

Example: We had goths in our school, and then we had freaky-freak boy who would wear long black skirts, wine-hued arm-length velvet gloves, with the tips cut off to expose his long nails that were sharpened into points. Ew.

Then you go to that same school now (my sister is now attending) And while I could have SWORN there was a slight dress code there, most of the girls look like your typical baby hookers. WTF?! You have to wear tanktops with 1" straps, but it's okay to wear your pants down so low your ass crack nearly shows?

Sometimes I wish highschool WAS set up like college. You don't have to pay to be there, but you either make the effort, pay attention, and graduate...or you don't. I think too much is expected of teachers to seem more like babysitters than educators. If someone wants to slack off, fine, they've just fucked themselves. I'm going off topic now so I'll end here.

What's funny about this, figuratively speaking, is that we are a people who supposedly strive for individuality, ergo, the dress code(s) need to be eradicated.

I understand that forms of decency must apply (i.e. bucknakedness.. and.. kilts?) But aside from this, to destroy social status symbols is to assimilate.

There isn't anything more frightening than a bunch of arguing junior high school students swarming around looking like cut extras from Children of the Corn.

[DeV]

I agree with everything Tsa'ah stated. To me, dress codes and/or uniforms are an important facet in a childs lower educational years. They help offset social stigma tremendously especially in the inner cities and lower economic areas. Kids should be focusing on learning and not what to wear to school the next day or what that other girl was wearing or trying to keep up with the latest fashion. I feel they're a necessity.

[Wezas]

We had some oddballs at our school. One girl dyed her hair silver freshman year and looked like she was an old teacher. She still had silver hair when she graduated.

Another guy was always very quiet and used to put lightning bug juice in his hair - and treated it like gel.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
When we delve into the area of school uniforms, there is one factor most people are forgetting. Social stigma. Not all kids that attend school are from well off families, and in cases of schools that have uniforms, they are a god send for poor families who have children in attendance via scholarship.Man, you old guys were awful harsh to each other. That never happened at my school (the ones I went to that didn't involve uniforms, obviously).

edit: Stan, did you just take a shot at the Scottish?

[Edited on 9-1-2004 by Latrinsorm]

[Valthissa]

For me, these posts come under the heading of 'the more things change, the more they stay the same'. There was tremendous friction between the teachers and the students at my high school (71-74) over how short a dress was, whether a pair of jeans were too faded, slogans on tee-shirts, etc.

I think uniforms at High School probably solve these types of issues for the parents and the teachers without providing much in the way of learning proper social skills for the students.

At work, it is amazing what some people can interpret as appropriate attire. We handle those problems in a rather crude way by having an appearance category for performance reviews. We have a dress code that defines business casual, but some people think they are the exception to every rule. In the machine shop where dress tends to be a matter of safety the only problem we have is with the 'interesting' slogans people sometimes wear.


C/Valth

[Trinitis]

Oh I agree, Big johnson shirts are out of line for a public school setting. But I think its also very out of line to tell a kid they are being "too goth". To me thats a slap in the face. Thats like sending a kid home for being too "nerdy" or too "Jock".

Just because a girl (they showed her picture on the news this eve.) is wearing a black tank top with a black lace top over it, some black jeans, a pair of black boots and some added extras (She was wearing some eye liner..but none of that "pasty white face with black lipstick" crap. She looked like a fairly modest teen in black) does not mean she is trying to be Goth. It could mean she is trying to dress in what she finds appealing.


Just because I went to school in a black leather trench coat does not mean I was lugging around guns. *shrug* I think the schools are looking TOO deep now days.

Edit to add : Also, she was wearing some black hairsticks to hold her hair up as it was reported..but they took those away form her as they were a "weapon threat". I guess thats KINDA understandable..though I thought it was dumb that they would not allow her to take them home with her.

[Edited on 9-2-2004 by LordAdredrin]

edit: Stan, did you just take a shot at the Scottish?

I was taking a shot at kilts.

[Hips]

Originally posted by LordAdredrin
because a girl (they showed her picture on the news this eve.) is wearing a black tank top with a black lace top over it, some black jeans, a pair of black boots and some added extras (She was wearing some eye liner..but none of that "pasty white face with black lipstick" crap.

Looks like I would have been sent home just about every day. :lol:

[Tsa`ah]

I agree that sending the girl home was uncalled for and that schools/teachers are looking way too deep into the dress issue.

The topic of individuality is rather laughable. Don't feed me the individuality line when a kid dresses Goth, or punk to be in different ... with all of their Goth/punk friends. We seem to sacrifice that word too often. Self expression, sure, but unless you are the only person in your school dressing the way you do and you don't hang out with groups of people who dress the way you do, then it's not individuality at all. You're simply destroying one image acceptable to one clique in order to fit into another.

That normal kid who sits in the corner reading and listening to a walkman. The kid who doesn't join clubs, doesn't play sports and is pretty much invisible to every possible clique ... is more of an individual than most kids could ever hope to be.

Generally kids at the HS level and lower do not express their individuality and their idea of self expression is dressing in a manner that is socially acceptable to the groups they hang with.

[Trinitis]

That normal kid who sits in the corner reading and listening to a walkman. The kid who doesn't join clubs, doesn't play sports and is pretty much invisible to every possible clique ... is more of an individual than most kids could ever hope to be.



did you follow me around in HS or something? You just nailed me to a T there :(

[Bobmuhthol]

Today I wore:

black t-shirt
black pants
black/red shoes
black socks

My backpack is:
black/red

Nobody noticed.


<<I always felt bed for the kids that had crappy clothes and the same clothes from their prior school year.>>

.......

I'm not poor and I'm wearing the same clothes right now as I did last year.

Also, I'd like to see the money that goes into buying uniforms spent on getting ugly chicks some plastic surgery. I may or may not be joking. And just because I'm distracted by the rack in front of me in science does not mean I can't also pay attention and get teh grades of goodness.

[Edited on 9-2-2004 by Bobmuhthol]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
black pantsAre you guys getting this cold snap garbage too? WTF happened to summer?
black/red shoesAre they the Avril Lavigne variety?

[Bobmuhthol]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v375/Bobmuhthol1/black.jpg

[Betheny]

I'm a cowboy, I never got kicked out of school. I feel left out now. :cry:

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v375/Bobmuhthol1/black.jpg

Bob's in the Bloodz. BRRRRRRIAT.