Republican Convention

[Parkbandit]

McCain's speech was pretty good.. and even Michael Moore looked like he was having fun when the spotlight was on him (God.. do you think he could have taken a shower and put on a new cap? )

I do have to say.. while I believe 9-11 should be part of the convention.. I do believe the Republicans are playing far too much into it. Unlike Democrats, I won't say thay 9-11 should never be mentioned here, but I think it should have been toned down a tad. We'll see how the rest of the week shapes up.

[Chadj]

Michael Moore still rocks.

And Bush is still a moron.

But yes, I agree, the speech was actually pretty good I suppose.

And yes, it was pretty annoying how much they put in with the 9/11 stuff.

[Edited on 8-31-2004 by Chadj]

I have better things to do with my time like play GS

[Chadj]

This is why TV, eating, and playing on a computer, can all be done at once with ease.

[Back]

Yeah, the internet rocks. Well, it rocks, if you know how to use it.

[Betheny]

Originally posted by Backlash
Yeah, the internet rocks. Well, it rocks, if you know how to use it.

I can decipher male-speak.

This sentence actually means:

"Yeah, the internet rocks. Well, it rocks, if the free porn sites are updated."

/FLEE

[The Korean]

guys, she's on to us.

:hammer:

[Ravenstorm]

You know, it's a pity the networks aren't going to be televising more of the convention. I'd love to see the speakers that the Republicans don't want televised instead of the 'moderate' ones like Pataki and Guliani.

Like Donnie McClurkin who is on record accusing gays of "trying to kill our children".

Or maybe Sheri Dew who compared "the atrocities of Hitler" to "what is happening in terms of contemporary threats against the family".

Let America really see the hatred and bigotry the Republicans cater to in their quest to get power. That's what you're going to be voting for. And your votes make you a party to it. It's gone way beyond 'just politics'. Sure, most of you don't give a damn. Wait until it's you being demonized.

Raven

[Back]

I’m not linking this to where I got it from, but it’s still worth reading.

A Day in the Life of Joe Middle-Class Republican

by Donna L. Lavins and Sheldon Cotler

Joe gets up at 6:00 AM to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot with good, clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety and that they work as advertised.

All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan. Because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance, now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast -- bacon and eggs this day. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

Joe takes his morning shower, reaching for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with every ingredient and the amount that is contains because some liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and the breakdown of its contents. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some tree-hugging liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer meets these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he'll get worker's compensation or an unemployment check because some liberal didn't think he should loose his home to temporary misfortune.

It's noon time. Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten mortgage and his below market federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime.

Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dads; his car is among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The house didn't have electric until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification (those rural Republican's would still be sitting in the dark).

Joe is happy to see his dad, who is now retired. Joe's dad lives on Social Security and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to. After his visit with dad, Joe gets back in his car for the ride home. He turns on a radio talk show. The host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't tell Joe that his beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe agrees, "We don't need those big government liberals ruining our lives. After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."

In the years to come, Joe's life will change dramatically. The U.S. dollar will be devalued as a result of our huge deficit, our living standards demolished, our standing with the world diminished and our social security gone...all because some conservative republican made sure he could take care of himself and his buddies.

Aghast, i remain...

[Parkbandit]

I think I saw Bush Sr. sleeping during Rudy's speech... heh

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I think I saw Bush Sr. sleeping during Rudy's speech... heh Well he's like 90 years old, isn't he? Don't you guys talk at the AARP meetings? :smilegrin:

Anyway, I'm not going to have anything relevant to add until Jon tells me what I should pay attention to.

[Blazing247]

<Let America really see the hatred and bigotry the Republicans cater to in their quest to get power. That's what you're going to be voting for. And your votes make you a party to it. It's gone way beyond 'just politics'. Sure, most of you don't give a damn. Wait until it's you being demonized. >

Give me a fucking break...

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by Backlash

In the years to come, Joe's life will change dramatically. The U.S. dollar will be devalued as a result of our huge deficit, our living standards demolished, our standing with the world diminished and our social security gone...all because some conservative republican made sure he could take care of himself and his buddies.

Aghast, i remain...

1) We have one of the highest deficits ever. The deficit doesn't affect the value of the dollar, it only affects the value of a US sold bond (if even, heh).
'
2) If number 1 doesn't happen, your standard of living won't decrease. IN FACT, by allowing companies to retain more of they will continue to do what they already do best; use money to make money. With that they invest in their capital resources, expand their production, enhance their production methods, and produce more.

Here is a tip for the economically impared. The more we produce, the more everyone gets.

3) Social Security pays the highest interest rate to the wealthiest percent of the population. I have no worries if it goes away.

[Parkbandit]

:offtopic:

[Wezas]

On topic, what's with the drama club singing show tunes at the beginning of the convention?

I tuned to the HD channel to see what might be on and I suddenly had 4 gay men dressed all in black singing to me in surround sound.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Wezas
On topic, what's with the drama club singing show tunes at the beginning of the convention?

I tuned to the HD channel to see what might be on and I suddenly had 4 gay men dressed all in black singing to me in surround sound.

I didn't see that part.. but 4 gay black men? You sure that was the Republican Convention??

Sorry Raven.. couldn't resist that one ;)

[Parkbandit]

Oh wait.. you said DRESSED in black.. my bad.

Maybe that was our Outreach program to court the gay vote before the amendment against Gay Marriage is drawn up. (Which is another thing I think Bush is wrong about)

[Wezas]

Gotta love conservatives who put up Republican Convention Weblogs:

"Delegates were handing out the band-aids on the convention floor last night as a way to mock the purple heart medals John Kerry received."

The epitome of class.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Wezas
"Delegates were handing out the band-aids on the convention floor last night as a way to mock the purple heart medals John Kerry received."
That is very tasteless and tacky.

[Back]

Let the smearing commence.

I was just checking out the GOP (http://www.gop.com) website. Kerry's face is on the home page more than Bush! I really wasn’t suprised to see Kerry get smeared there... but to be fair I checked the RNC (http://www.democrats.org/index2.html) site and low and behold. All kinds of Bush smearing there too.

This is going to be an interesting week.

::cracks knuckles in preparation for a flurry of political topics::

[Back]

Oh, one other thing...

The GOP Convention (http://gopconvention.com/index.shtml) site. Its actually laid out well with a clean design. Loads up quick enough. Hopefully they’ll get transcripts of the speeches up as fast as the Dems did.

[Tirayana]

I only saw excerpts from Guiliani and McCain's speeches. I saw an interview with Guiliani prior to his speech though, on MSNBC, I think. It was a really good one. He basically said that he does not support many of the ideas that Bush does (i.e. abortion, gay marriage, I think..) and that it shows that Republicans are different people, and have different feelings on these issues, but are bound together by a few core values (which, I don't know what they are).

Anyway, I'm keeping up on the RNC. I also thought it was very stupid that last night some protestors ended up kicking a police man and injuring him. Completely unnecessary. People are so stupid.

~Tirayana

[DeV]

Originally posted by Tirayana
Anyway, I'm keeping up on the RNC. I also thought it was very stupid that last night some protestors ended up kicking a police man and injuring him. Completely unnecessary. People are so stupid.

~Tirayana I felt it was uncalled for also. If you're going to protest at least go about it in a way in which you will be respected for your stance. When violence ensues people need to be prepared to deal with the consequences. I heard alot of people were arrested as a result of the protests yesterday.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Tirayana
He basically said that he does not support many of the ideas that Bush does (i.e. abortion, gay marriage, I think..) and that it shows that Republicans are different people, and have different feelings on these issues, but are bound together by a few core values (which, I don't know what they are).

That's why they had him speaking during prime time. He's one of the moderate Republicans that they hope will swing the undecideds their way. Compare his words to the party's actions though and you'll see the true picture.



Originally posted by Wezas
I tuned to the HD channel to see what might be on and I suddenly had 4 gay men dressed all in black singing to me in surround sound.

It's doubtful they were gay. You can tell the real homosexuals by the 'token faggot' brand on their forehead.

Raven

[Parkbandit]

Ravenstorm... You would be surprised on how many gay americans are proud Republican. Newsflash for you pal.. just because you are gay doesn't make you a Democrat.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Ravenstorm... You would be surprised on how many gay americans are proud Republican. Newsflash for you pal.. just because you are gay doesn't make you a Democrat.

They just haven't come out of the closet yet. :lol:

j/k

[Back]

As Rave predicted...

GOP Convention Speaker Compares Gay Families to Hitler (http://www.democrats.org/news/200408310010.html)

Anti-Gay Extremist Sheri Drew Offers Morning Invocation

Washington, DC – If their line-up of speakers is any indication, there will be no compassion for Gay and Lesbian Americans at this year’s Republican National Convention. Sheri Drew, who offered this morning’s invocation from the Convention Podium, has said those who support gay and lesbian families are no different from those who supported Adolph Hitler in the years preceding World War II.

When defending her comparison of Gay and Lesbians to Adolph Hitler, Drew simply stated that “it may seem a bit extreme to imply a comparison between the atrocities of Hitler and what is happening in terms of contemporary threats against the family — but maybe not.”

In response, DNC spokesperson Brian Richardson issued the following statement:

“It’s disappointing to think that a political party would want to have such a homophobic, anti-gay, anti-family individual participate in their national convention. A convention is about bringing people together, unfortunately with such a divisive participant and a discriminatory platform, this year’s Republican convention is more about tearing people apart.

“To compare hard-working, law-abiding families and their friends to Adolph Hitler is a disgrace. The Republican Party should take a stand for all families, and condemn this divisive rhetoric.”

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Ravenstorm... You would be surprised on how many gay americans are proud Republican. Newsflash for you pal.. just because you are gay doesn't make you a Democrat.

Don't teach your grandmother how to suck eggs. I know damn well about the gay Republicans. Want the webpage of the Log Cabin Republicans? www.lcr.org

And the treatment they've received by the Republican party is part of what I'm talking about. The odds of them endorsing Bush are about 99% against.

Raven

[Wezas]

Hmm....

I've decided to link this picture instead of posting it - for the benefit of you dial-upers.

Google search for Gay Republicans (http://members.cox.net/legendwezas/gay.jpg)

[Tirayana]

Originally posted by Wezas
Hmm....

I've decided to link this picture instead of posting it - for the benefit of you dial-upers.

Google search for Gay Republicans (http://members.cox.net/legendwezas/gay.jpg)

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Ravenstorm... You would be surprised on how many gay americans are proud Republican. Newsflash for you pal.. just because you are gay doesn't make you a Democrat.

Don't teach your grandmother how to suck eggs. I know damn well about the gay Republicans. Want the webpage of the Log Cabin Republicans? www.lcr.org

And the treatment they've received by the Republican party is part of what I'm talking about. The odds of them endorsing Bush are about 99% against.

Raven

I really wished I cared... but I don't. I'm more concerned about the economics of the country and the security of this nation than a special interest group claiming how horrible life in America is because of the Republican Party.

Sorry if that sounds callous, but that's how I feel. Sorry.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I really wished I cared... but I don't. I'm more concerned about the economics of the country and the security of this nation than a special interest group claiming how horrible life in America is because of the Republican Party.

Sorry if that sounds callous, but that's how I feel. Sorry. If you don't care what's to be sorry about. :shrug:

I think most gays who are Republican are more concerned with the issues you listed above other than their own human rights.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I'm more concerned about the economics of the country and the security of this nation...

I've got news for you. Everyone is concerned about that. Eveyone. That includes gays and Democrats. And how the Republican party has decided to treat millions of American citizens - including their own supporters - says a hell of a lot about their ethics, their morality, and whether or not they deserve to be in power of what is supposedly the best, most free country in the world.

That so many seem not to care about it, or overlook it in their fear of the 'enemy', is just very sad. But then again that's not terribly surprising is it? Gays, along with terrorists, have become the 'new' communists. Terrorists threaten American lives and gays threaten American society. We're the personal bogey men of the Republican party.

And please, don't even begin to claim I'm exaggerating when chances are you don't know shit. Republican campaigns in primaries are being fought across the country by accusing the opponent of being 'soft on gays'. Alan Keyes is the hand picked candidate of the party to challenge Obama. State after state have proposed laws and amendments by Republicans barring not only same sex marriage but civil unions, domestic partnerships and even any 'legal incidents thereof' that are normally bestowed on married couples. And then these Republicans consider that a feather in their cap when they're up for re-election. And all the comparisons to bestiality, accusations of raping small boys, killing children, comparing us Hitler for God's sake! They've become too numerous to even keep track of any longer. The list goes on.

That's the Republican party.

Raven

[Warriorbird]

The Republican Party is bound together by a core issue. I won't say the issue because that wouldn't be polite.

:cool:

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
...than a special interest group claiming how horrible life in America is because of the Republican Party.

Oh, and congratulations on your choice of phrasing. You really should write speeches for the party. It's so much easier and less despicable to dismiss the concerns of a 'special interest group' than it is to do so of a minority who's being blatantly discriminated against. The latter phrase sounds so... nasty. I salute you.

Raven

[Back]

Gearing up to watch Arnie. Here is a Republican I like. Maintaining progressive social issues yet still conservative with government.

My prediction is he will run for Pres in 08 and win by a landslide. You heard it here first.

[Blazing247]

<than it is to do so of a minority who's being blatantly discriminated against.>

Being black or hispanic makes you a minority. Being homosexual makes you...someone with deviant sexual preferences. You are a homosexual white person who is upset with Bush's stance on gay marriage, so let's just call it like it is. A person with a toe fetish =! a minority. That's like calling myself a minority because I'm pro-life, and then accusing the Democrats of discriminating against my life choice.

[Ilvane]

Problem is he can't because he wasn't born here.

Oh, and for the Republicans compassionate conservatives..Something a friend of mine pointed out to me today..

"Bush said something about freedom being given by God and how it's really important to have freedom. My dad laughed pretty hard when I said, "That's really interesting that he said that. If freedom's so important, why is he trying to take away people's freedom to do things?" (I was thinking mainly about the whole same-sex marriage thing, but we all know it's not the only thing.)"

Said it pretty much the way I would.

-A

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Ilvane
Problem is he can'tyet. :D Although the last time (that I know of) the Repubs changed presidential stuff, it bit them in the ass. Decisions, decisions.

[imported_Kranar]

I must admit, the RNC is going WAY better than the DNC did. The amount of optimism, and just sheer energy in this convention rivals what I thought to have been a rather angry and frightening DNC.

Best line so far...

DON'T BE ECONOMIC GIRLY-MAN.

[Ilvane]

I wonder if we were watching the same convention, Kranar. I thought the Democratic Convention was one of hope, and rarely went after Bush, and talked about the issues. This one isn't striking me this way.

-A

[Tirayana]

Originally posted by Kranar
I must admit, the RNC is going WAY better than the DNC did. The amount of optimism, and just sheer energy in this convention rivals what I thought to have been a rather angry and frightening DNC.

Best line so far...

DON'T BE ECONOMIC GIRLY-MAN.

hahaha Yeah, its really true. Arnold makes all republicans look like saints. Way to go, Arnold! He rules. He really does.

[Tirayana]

The Bush daughters are going to ruin it..

They're annoying me already. :rolleyes:

[Artha]

I thought the Democratic Convention was one of hope, and rarely went after Bush, and talked about the issues.

Of course you did.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Tirayana
The Bush daughters are going to ruin it..

They're annoying me already. :rolleyes: You and MTV both. :smilegrin:

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Tirayana
The Bush daughters are going to ruin it..

They're annoying me already. :rolleyes:

I heard on the radio that they're going to a gay wedding? Anyone heard anything about that?

[Back]

The past few posts...

Arnold stole the show. Good thing for Bush he is a Republican. Arnold has the kind of raw Republican values that made the party in the first place. Not what it is now. No purple heart band-aids tonight.

We want to pump... :clap: you up.

Flawless speaking, smooth ad-libing, and at the core a progressive message. Pushing the idea that we all aren’t from here, but we all thrive here and appreciate it. Genuine.

Its my interpretation that he used that platform for his own political career. I don’t blame him either. And I can’t really take credit for my earlier prediction. Someone already wrote him in a story as a president in a movie or comic book. Frank Miller?

Oh, I started this post around 10:21, but recieved a few calls.

[Kitsun]

It was Stalone's Demolition Man where Arnold was president.

Taken from IMDB:


Lenina Huxley tells John Spartan about the Arnold Schwarzenegger Library, explaining that, based on the sheer popularity of his movies, a Constitutional amendment was passed in order for Schwarzenegger to run for president, which, according to Huxley, he did. In 2003, ten years after this film's release, Arnold Schwarzenegger was elected governor of California and shortly after his election, three senators separately proposed amendments to the US Constitution to allow naturalized citizens to become president.

[Back]

Originally posted by Kitsun
It was Stalone's Demolition Man where Arnold was president.

Taken from IMDB:


Lenina Huxley tells John Spartan about the Arnold Schwarzenegger Library, explaining that, based on the sheer popularity of his movies, a Constitutional amendment was passed in order for Schwarzenegger to run for president, which, according to Huxley, he did. In 2003, ten years after this film's release, Arnold Schwarzenegger was elected governor of California and shortly after his election, three senators separately proposed amendments to the US Constitution to allow naturalized citizens to become president.


Link to source?

[Tirayana]

Yes, Arnold rules.

Did you know he graduated from college with a degree in Economics? He will make some good changes, I guarantee it.

~Tirayana

[Kitsun]

Here ya go Backlash:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106697/trivia

IMDB is freaking terrific for all sorts of movie trivia, quotes and er...movie related stuff.

[Back]

Originally posted by Kitsun
Here ya go Backlash:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106697/trivia

IMDB is freaking terrific for all sorts of movie trivia, quotes and er...movie related stuff.

Thanks. As I recall, that wasn’t a bad movie either. IMDB (http://www.imdb.com)

[Nakiro]

Just wanted to add on topic, I really enjoyed Arnold, and Laura wasn't too bad.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Wezas
I heard on the radio that they're going to a gay wedding? Anyone heard anything about that?

Ask and thou shalt receive. (http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/223288p-191737c.html)

It hasn't happened yet so who knows if they'll actually attend.

Raven

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ilvane
I wonder if we were watching the same convention, Kranar. I thought the Democratic Convention was one of hope, and rarely went after Bush, and talked about the issues. This one isn't striking me this way.

-A

They orchestrated this plan in hopes that having a positive image and not bashing the President would give them a lift in the polls. Well, we know how well that worked... don't we. :D

You really don't think that the Democrats are "above" this do you? If you do, you are even more naive than I thought. Everything by both parties is calculated and outcomes projected.

[Wezas]

I guess we'll find out tonight if Bush directly attacks Kerry. The democrats made sure to leave any pokes at the current administration to be done by speakers other then Kerry.

[Hulkein]

Arnold was awesome, Barbara Bush is hot but their speech was kind of annoying, and Laura Bush was good I guess. I am glad she said the thing about being the first president to give funding for stemcell research. I remember there was a discussion about that here just a few weeks ago.

Edited because I got the twins names mixed up.

[Edited on 9-1-2004 by Hulkein]

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Hulkein
Barbara Bush is hot

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/09.26/photos/12-Bush1-450.jpg

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Wezas
I guess we'll find out tonight if Bush directly attacks Kerry. The democrats made sure to leave any pokes at the current administration to be done by speakers other then Kerry.

Once again, that was an orchestrated plan by the Democrats to gain support and nothing more. I personally believe that Bush SHOULD attack Kerry on the issues.. like his voting record over the past 20 years... like why he didn't bring any meaningful legislation through..

There is plenty of material to use and Bush would be foolish not to.

[Hulkein]

LOL, I should've known someone was going to do that.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/dawkins/jenna.jpg

That one, although that picture isn't the best.

[Tirayana]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Once again, that was an orchestrated plan by the Democrats to gain support and nothing more. I personally believe that Bush SHOULD attack Kerry on the issues.. like his voting record over the past 20 years... like why he didn't bring any meaningful legislation through..

There is plenty of material to use and Bush would be foolish not to.

Kerry did bring meaningful legislation through - though he did not author any himself. He just co-sponsored/sponsored the legislation that did pass. And, in any case, Bush doesn't have a voting record. So, where do we stand on that?

~Tirayana

[Back]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Wezas
I guess we'll find out tonight if Bush directly attacks Kerry. The democrats made sure to leave any pokes at the current administration to be done by speakers other then Kerry.

Once again, that was an orchestrated plan by the Democrats to gain support and nothing more. I personally believe that Bush SHOULD attack Kerry on the issues.. like his voting record over the past 20 years... like why he didn't bring any meaningful legislation through..

There is plenty of material to use and Bush would be foolish not to.

LOL PB. You’re such a jackass sometimes. You oh so casually state things without providing any examples... according to you, Kerry slept through his 10 years as Senator.

This was posted before but you obviously avoided reading it. Bush Still Fudging the Numbers on Kerry's Tax Votes
(http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=247)

All your criticisms come right from the GOP, and they are desperately misleading and fudging things. I know you’re smarter than that, PB.

And the award for most irrelevent statement goes to....


And, in any case, Bush doesn't have a voting record.

[Wezas]

Hulkein, that might be the best pic of Barbara. I've done some searches and the others don't quite live up to that one.

[Chelle]

The twins were quite annoying. Loved Arnold and Laura though.

I feel sorry for whoever runs against Arnold if he ever ran for President.

OMG DEMOLITION MAN IS BECOMING A REALITY. Next thing you know wesley snipes and sylvester stalone will be frozen.

[Ilvane]

You know what was telling for me? That no one noticed that Arnold said that he became a Republican because of Nixon..That Humphry was a socialist, like he left in Austria...heh. And Nixon somehow was his hero? And made him proud to be a Republican? :smirk: You've got to be kidding me.

Fascinating and yet telling that the line that gets pulled is "Don't be an economic girlie-man".

The important stuff always seems to fall by the wayside.

-A

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Wezas
Hulkein, that might be the best pic of Barbara. I've done some searches and the others don't quite live up to that one.

Yeah when I looked on google it was a better one.

I first saw her on video though where she looked pretty good the whole time.

Older pictures of her aren't that good, looks like she just recently has come into her own.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Ilvane
And Nixon somehow was his hero? And made him proud to be a Republican? :smirk: You've got to be kidding me.Yeah, any idiot could've fixed the China situation, landed men on the moon, or practically speaking ended the longest war in American history.

Your partisanship is showing. :(

[Prestius]

Originally posted by Chelle

I feel sorry for whoever runs against Arnold if he ever ran for President.

You do realize that this is impossible, don't you?

And Re: Nixon -- LOL .. it's amazing how people get sainted after they die. I'll give Nixon China, but you're probably too young to remember a little thing called Watergate and all the other dirty pool that slimebag played.

Nixon landed men on the moon? ROFL! That's a good one!!

-P

[Ilvane]

Nixon was not great, by any stretch of the imagination. He was a racist, a crook, a liar, and a horrid president.

I wasn't alive, but I've read history.

-A

[Latrinsorm]

Nixon's only error in regards to Watergate was the cover-up. He had nothing to do with the actual breaking and entering part.

Nixon did a lot of bad things, duh. Everyone (except for Miss X, near as I can tell) does bad things. That doesn't mean nobody is worthy of emulation, because even racists/crooks can have shining moments.

I don't see why crediting Nixon with the moon landing is laughable. Sure, JFK hit a triple, but he didn't score. Nixon did.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Bush is giving his vision for a second term tonight. Should be good.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ilvane
You know what was telling for me? That no one noticed that Arnold said that he became a Republican because of Nixon..That Humphry was a socialist, like he left in Austria...heh. And Nixon somehow was his hero? And made him proud to be a Republican? :smirk: You've got to be kidding me.

Fascinating and yet telling that the line that gets pulled is "Don't be an economic girlie-man".

The important stuff always seems to fall by the wayside.

-A

Yes, because the like "Don't be an economic girlie-man" is OH SO FUCKING IMPORTANT!! HOW DARE HE!!!

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ilvane
Nixon was not great, by any stretch of the imagination. He was a racist, a crook, a liar, and a horrid president.

I wasn't alive, but I've read history.

-A

Replace racist with womanizer.. and you would have just described another President..:lol::lol:

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Prestius

Originally posted by Chelle

I feel sorry for whoever runs against Arnold if he ever ran for President.

You do realize that this is impossible, don't you?

And Re: Nixon -- LOL .. it's amazing how people get sainted after they die. I'll give Nixon China, but you're probably too young to remember a little thing called Watergate and all the other dirty pool that slimebag played.

Nixon landed men on the moon? ROFL! That's a good one!!

-P

Damn.. I agree with Prestius.

Arnold cannot become President because he was not born in the United States.

Nixon was a great politician.. but not a great President. He will always be known for Watergate.. even if it wasn't fully his fault.

[Ilvane]

You can't even compare what Nixon did to what Clinton did, PB.

It's a bit different to lie about having an affair, and what Nixon did..and you know it.



-A:yawn:

[imported_Kranar]

I love how Clinton managed to get people to think that all he did was lie about an affair. It's quite remarkable and intelligent on his part.

The details of President Clinton's affair was simply to establish that he was a pervert and that he quite likely used his position to sexually harrass others.

[Ilvane]

All they managed to uncover in the millions of dollars they spent was that he lied about an affair under oath.

They spent years looking for other things and were never able to prove any of it. Interesting, isn't it?

It's not as if he was calling people racist names, and getting our troops into harms way..Just can't compare him to Nixon, sorry.

-A

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

So you are ok with the president lying under oath?

What good is ANYTHING that comes out of his mouth?

[Back]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
So you are ok with the president lying under oath?

What good is ANYTHING that comes out of his mouth?

Obviously Arnold is.

[Nakiro]

And so are the vets in respect to Kerry.

[Back]

Originally posted by Nakiro
And so are the vets in respect to Kerry.

Which vets? Because Nixon lied his ass off about some really serious shit.

A record of his misgivings. (http://watergate.info/impeachment/impeachment-articles.shtml)

[Chelle]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Prestius

Originally posted by Chelle

I feel sorry for whoever runs against Arnold if he ever ran for President.

You do realize that this is impossible, don't you?

And Re: Nixon -- LOL .. it's amazing how people get sainted after they die. I'll give Nixon China, but you're probably too young to remember a little thing called Watergate and all the other dirty pool that slimebag played.

Nixon landed men on the moon? ROFL! That's a good one!!

-P

Damn.. I agree with Prestius.

Arnold cannot become President because he was not born in the United States.

Nixon was a great politician.. but not a great President. He will always be known for Watergate.. even if it wasn't fully his fault.

Oh yes I am quite aware Arnold can't run that is why I said IF. Then again, laws can and do change all the time.

[Back]

Originally posted by Kitsun
It was Stalone's Demolition Man where Arnold was president.

Taken from IMDB:


Lenina Huxley tells John Spartan about the Arnold Schwarzenegger Library, explaining that, based on the sheer popularity of his movies, a Constitutional amendment was passed in order for Schwarzenegger to run for president, which, according to Huxley, he did. In 2003, ten years after this film's release, Arnold Schwarzenegger was elected governor of California and shortly after his election, three senators separately proposed amendments to the US Constitution to allow naturalized citizens to become president.


Read this closely... I want to know which Senators those were.

[Back]

Google=God

From the California Aggie (http://www.californiaaggie.com/article/?id=458).


U.S. Senator Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), U.S. Rep. Vic Snyder (D-Ark.) and U.S. Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.) each have introduced amendments that would clear the presidential path for naturalized citizens. Two of the amendments would require foreign-born individuals to be citizens for 20 years; Snyder’s amendment requires 35 years of citizenship.

[Parkbandit]

Just.. WOW.

Having Cheney delivering his speech last night was harsh, but nothing like Sen. Zell Miller (A Democrat and former marine) gave.

To be owned by the Republican Party is one thing.. but to be completely owned by one in your own party AT the other Party's convention - Priceless.

Kerry's shitting bricks right now.. and he still has Bush to go tonight.

Prediction:
Kerry 40%
Bush 45%

[imported_Kranar]

As I said for the last convention, these conventions are meaningless for the November election.

The Republicans are being tough on Kerry because they HAVE to be tough. President Bush is in a very bad position at this point for an incumbent. He needs to be over 50 percent to have a good standing. That he is under 50 percent right now and that most Americans do not trust him as a leader means that the Republicans will need to give a full out assault in order to secure some sort of position in the next coming months.

Don't let the vanity and cheer of a convention fool you though, these historically have little effect on the election.

[Parkbandit]

A friend of mine asked me why I thought there were so many more people arrested during the Republican Convention than the Democratic... I told him it was because during the Democratic convention, the Republicans were working.

:)

Seriously.. how fucking militant are core Democrats nowadays that they simply ignore the laws to 'promote' their 'cause'?

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Kranar
As I said for the last convention, these conventions are meaningless for the November election.

The Republicans are being tough on Kerry because they HAVE to be tough. President Bush is in a very bad position at this point for an incumbent. He needs to be over 50 percent to have a good standing. That he is under 50 percent right now and that most Americans do not trust him as a leader means that the Republicans will need to give a full out assault in order to secure some sort of position in the next coming months.

Don't let the vanity and cheer of a convention fool you though, these historically have little effect on the election.

Perhaps you are right.. and I know this will be a close race, but I simply don't believe Kerry can win.

Another candidate perhaps, but Kerry is simply one of the worse candidates in decades to run for the Presidency.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Perhaps you are right.. and I know this will be a close race


Originally posted by ParkbanditPrediction:
Kerry 40%
Bush 45%

:?:

[Hulkein]

Odd thing is Bush was gaining in approval rating and polls before the convention.

I think we could see a solid bounce that will stay in place for two months.

[Parkbandit]

Since when is 40-45 not a close race?

80-20 is not close
70-30 is not close
60-40 is not close
50-50 is a tie
40-45 is a close race

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Since when is 40-45 not a close race?


(all numbers being popular vote, not electoral)

(00)Gore vs. Bush = 48.38% vs. 47.87% = ~0.5%
(96)Clinton vs. Dole = 49% vs. 41% = 8%
(92)Clinton vs. Bush Sr. = 43% vs. 37% = 6%
(88)Bush Sr. vs. Dukakis = 53% vs. 46% = 7%
(84)Reagan vs. Mondale = 59% vs. 41% = 18%

In my opinion - the only election I remember as being "close" is the 2000 election. 6%-7% sounds pretty close - but it's a 6-7 million vote difference.

[Back]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
A friend of mine asked me why I thought there were so many more people arrested during the Republican Convention than the Democratic... I told him it was because during the Democratic convention, the Republicans were working.

:)

Seriously.. how fucking militant are core Democrats nowadays that they simply ignore the laws to 'promote' their 'cause'?

Yeah, I wonder about this also. Maybe Dem protesters aren’t afraid of rubber bullets, pepper spray and jail time.

An issue of Adbusters (Canadian publisher) a few months back had some grassroots protest tactic guidelines that read like a guide to terrorism. Multiple small cells coordinated to cause civil unrest. No direct leadership position.

I marched against the first Gulf war when I lived in Sacramento. Everything was pretty cool until I saw one leather-boy asshole hammer his heavily ringed fist along the hood of a car that was waiting as we passed. No reason other than to be a jackass.

Goons like that come out at protests and ruin the whole thing. I’m sure there are plenty of people with ill-intent in NY right now. If they aren’t careful, they will turn into terrorist.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Backlash
I marched against the first Gulf war when I lived in Sacramento. Everything was pretty cool until I saw one leather-boy asshole hammer his heavily ringed fist along the hood of a car that was waiting as we passed. No reason other than to be a jackass.Reminds of the Dennis Miller quote someone (possibly you) had in their sig awhile ago about Bush, Hitler, and punching hippies. Or something along those lines.

[Ilvane]

It would be nice if Cheney had talked about what Bush would do in his next four years. How is he going to get us out of Iraq, raise the amount of jobs that pay good wages, lower unemployment, pay for his educational plan, work on lowering the deficit so we don’t hit inflation, help get health care for the poor people, lower the poverty rate in this country(which has raised under Bush), and how he is going to work on the high cost of oil before the winter time comes, and heating bills raise.

Instead he continued the old tired attacks, the things that are taken out of context, like how votes for defense spending were done when we were not at war, and hadn’t been for some time. As far as wanting to wage a sensitive war, he meant that he doesn’t want to alienate everyone in the world, including our allies. As for the body armor, there wasn’t funding for it, provider by the Bush administration. We’re also paying so much for the war in Iraq, and Bush has no plan for a way out…so aren’t these issues important, rather than skewing and lying about Kerry’s ideas, and distorting his votes?

-A

[Edited on 9-2-2004 by Ilvane]

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ilvane
It would be nice if Cheney had talked about what Bush would do in his next four years. How is he going to get us out of Iraq, raise the amount of jobs that pay good wages, lower unemployment, pay for his educational plan, work on lowering the deficit so we don’t hit inflation, help get health care for the poor people, lower the poverty rate in this country(which has raised under Bush), and how he is going to work on the high cost of oil before the winter time comes, and heating bills raise.

Instead he continued the old tired attacks, the things that are taken out of context, like how votes for defense spending were done when we were not at war, and hadn’t been for some time. As far as wanting to wage a sensitive war, he meant that he doesn’t want to alienate everyone in the world, including our allies. As for the body armor, there wasn’t funding for it, provider by the Bush administration. We’re also paying so much for the war in Iraq, and Bush has no plan for a way out…so aren’t these issues important, rather than skewing and lying about Kerry’s ideas, and distorting his votes?

-A

[Edited on 9-2-2004 by Ilvane]

I realize you would like to forget about your candidate's voting record.. unfortunately it's there. Kerry is THE most liberal member of congress, even surpassing Kennedy.

And I believe it would be up to BUSH to say what BUSH will be doing during his next term, no? The role of the VP has traditionally been that of the attacker while the Presidential Candidate can appear to be above the fray.

[Ilvane]

I heard a whole lot of hope from John Edwards, and comparing the two conventions, so far..I'd rather have the Democrats as leaders than the Republicans.

They fein compassion, and do the opposite in what they stand for. That to me is a huge deal. That Bush so favors "Freedom" yet wants to call people who don't agree unpatriotic, or as McCain said about Moore, disingenuous. I don't appreciate dissenting views being quashed, not in the slightest. Freedom means being able to disagree and still be just as American.

Of course, this set of Republicans, they don't get that.

-A

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ilvane
I heard a whole lot of hope from John Edwards, and comparing the two conventions, so far..I'd rather have the Democrats as leaders than the Republicans.

Wow.. I never would have guessed.. really?

:lol:

[Kefka]

Laura Bush - And my husband didn't want to go to war, but he knew the safety and security of America and the world depended on it.

Priceless

[Back]

An interesting article about inventing the “Clinton Recession” (http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_08/b3871044.htm).

Basically the Bush Administration made up its own economic panel to decide something that the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) has been doing for 75 years. NBER is a non-partisan group.

Bush’s panel, CEA, came up with its own start date for the recession to fall under Clinton’s term after NBER reported it being early 2001.

The article isn’t saying that the recession is Bush’s fault. Its just one of many illustrations of how this current administration operates.

[Parkbandit]

If you don't believe the recession started MUCH earlier than 9-11-01, then you are not in business and should stick to books for your education.

Those of us in the working world felt the recession as early as December 2000.

[Back]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
If you don't believe the recession started MUCH earlier than 9-11-01, then you are not in business and should stick to books for your education.

Those of us in the working world felt the recession as early as December 2000.

That wasn’t really the point of why I posted that. It was to show how this administration manipulates information. And I think that article said the NBER found that it started early 2001, not near 9/11.

In my case, yeah, end of 2000 to late 2001 I was unemployed. Thats the longest I’ve ever gone without working. Admitedly, I didn’t actually look very hard for a few months to soak up some downtime for myself.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Backlash

Originally posted by Parkbandit
If you don't believe the recession started MUCH earlier than 9-11-01, then you are not in business and should stick to books for your education.

Those of us in the working world felt the recession as early as December 2000.

That wasn’t really the point of why I posted that. It was to show how this administration manipulates information. And I think that article said the NBER found that it started early 2001, not near 9/11.

In my case, yeah, end of 2000 to late 2001 I was unemployed. Thats the longest I’ve ever gone without working. Admitedly, I didn’t actually look very hard for a few months to soak up some downtime for myself.

The Bush adminstration isn't the first to manipulate information or statistics and they certainly won't be the last.

Fact remains that the recession was well on it's way before Bush got into office.

To get back on topic now.. anyone see Zell Miller on Hardball last night? Matthews was lucky to not get his ass kicked by an elderly man on TV (Though I was rooting for it)

[Tirayana]

Couple of things...

Only a handful of protestors out of the thousands that have been there were arrested. I don't think that constitutes a 'core', more like a few militant people who have had too much to drink or are just idiots, in general.

Cheney's speech was very forceful, and I definitely think it sends a message to the Republicans. I agree with Ilvane. Cheney should have addressed key issues, but that is supposedly what Bush will do. So, we'll see after tonight.

I also thought it was amusing that Senator Zell Miller couldn't respond to Wolf Blitzer's comment that Dick Cheney's voting record is just as questionable as John Kerry's in terms of defense spending. Zell Miller said that the issue was John Kerry's voting record, and not Cheney's. Ha!

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040427-120352-4200r.htm (this is an older article - but it makes its point).

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=177 [read the part labeled "Missing Context"].

[Edited on 9-2-2004 by Tirayana]

[Kefka]

Zell Miller... Another DINO like Ed Krotch

[Scott]

Say what you want about Miller, but he absolutely ripped Kerry apart.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tirayana
Couple of things...

Only a handful of protestors out of the thousands that have been there were arrested. I don't think that constitutes a 'core', more like a few militant people who have had too much to drink or are just idiots, in general.


I certainly wouldn't catagorize 1700 people (and counting) arrested as a 'handful'... and I have big hands. :D

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Gemstone101
Say what you want about Miller, but he absolutely ripped Kerry apart.

He did and it was damaging.. but I just can't put too much faith in a guy who is belittling Kerry for flip flopping as he speaks at the other party's convention.

From a Republican standpoint.. it was entertaining.

From a Democratic standpoint.. it was a nightmare.

[Tirayana]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

I certainly wouldn't catagorize 1700 people (and counting) arrested as a 'handful'... and I have big hands. :D

1700? Was it really that many? I remember a few hundred being arrested at a couple of protests. Could you cite a reference to that number?

~Tirayana

[Edited on 9-2-2004 by Tirayana]

[Wezas]

BWAHAHAHA I was checking to see if I could find the 1700 arrests and I check WashingtonPost.com.

And Kerry's mug is at the bottom of the page in a seperate frame (democrats.org) looking for donations.

Well at least the Post is honest about their bias.

Love to get that kind of honesty out of other media sources *coughFoxcough*

[Parkbandit]

Yes, do a google search for Republican Convention Arrests 2004 and look for yourself.

That was as of this morning when I heard it on the news.. it's almost guaranteed to be higher by now.

Also, I would also consider a few hundred as more than a handful as well.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Wezas
BWAHAHAHA I was checking to see if I could find the 1700 arrests and I check WashingtonPost.com.

And Kerry's mug is at the bottom of the page in a seperate frame (democrats.org) looking for donations.

Well at least the Post is honest about their bias.

Love to get that kind of honesty out of other media sources *coughFoxcough*

I imagine if Bush was willing to pay them for the advertising.. they would put him on their website.

Doesn't prove their bias.. but their daily columns do.

[Wezas]

Police made 1,187 arrests as roving bands of protesters


Legal observers say that many of the arrests have appeared routine and justified, as demonstrators blocked traffic or tried to pass through police lines. But they said that perhaps another 300 arrests seemed arbitrary.


Among those: Police arrested more than 200 members of the War Resisters League, a pacifist group, as about 1,000 people walked north on the sidewalks from Ground Zero to Madison Square Garden. Demonstrators intended to conduct a mock "die-in" on the streets outside the convention, where they would be arrested in acts of civil disobedience.

[Parkbandit]

(AP) Fewer than two dozen protesters were arrested during anti-Republican demonstrations on the third day of the GOP convention, but advocates questioned police tactics as the total number of arrests for the week topped 1,700.


CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/08/25/politics/main638348.shtml)

Maybe it's a conspiracy to make the Democrats look like lawless thugs with no regard to anything but their 'cause'.

[Tirayana]

Alrighty. Thanks for the references, Wezas.

With all that in mind, I'll retract my claim as a 'handful', yet still pales in comparison to the amount of people that have protested, which number in the hundreds of thousands. A few thousand is a small percentage.

~Tirayana

Edited to add - I also don't think the violent protestors constitute a 'core' of democrats, or even protestors. Stupidity runs rampant in the United States, and this is just one example of it.

[Edited on 9-2-2004 by Tirayana]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Ilvane
or as McCain said about Moore, disingenuous.It's not quashing his freedom, it's stating a fact.

Guess who's going to be on the Daily Show tonight!!! (Not the guy with the hat)

[Kefka]

http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/politics/index.ssf?/base/politics-5/1094169886105410.xml&storylist=electionmi

NEW YORK (AP) — Long-haired and bearded, Sebastian Licht said he set out Tuesday to celebrate his 22nd birthday, only to be mocked by a police officer as "Jesus" and swept up in one of the largest mass arrests in the nation's history.

He emerged two days later from court — smelly, bleeding and determined to become the activist he says police feared he was.

One of more than 1,700 people arrested this week at demonstrations aimed at the Republican National Convention, Licht gained his freedom on Thursday morning. A judge, frustrated at the city's pace in moving protesters through the criminal justice system, ordered the immediate release of nearly 500 of them.

Most of those arrested were anti-GOP protesters, but some insist they got snared in the chaos. Licht puts himself in the latter category.

[Hulkein]

<<I heard a whole lot of hope from John Edwards, and comparing the two conventions, so far..I'd rather have the Democrats as leaders than the Republicans.>>

I'm shocked!

:eek:

[Kefka]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=536&e=2&u=/ap/20040902/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_democrats

"I'm not going to have my commitment to defend this country questioned by those who refused to serve when they could have and by those who have misled the nation into Iraq," Kerry said in prepared remarks issued as the Republican was poised to accept his party's nomination for a second term.


Kerry's having a rally in Ohio an hour after Bush's speech.

[Hulkein]

Yeah, it's looking bleak for him, he's got to change something.

Didn't he say a week ago that he would still vote for the war knowing what he knows today?

[Edited on 9-3-2004 by Hulkein]

[imported_Kranar]

<< Didn't he say a week ago that he would still vote for the war knowing what he knows today? >>

Yes.

He also said he voted for the 87 billion dollars to support the war before he voted against it.

Sometimes Kerry just screws himself over and doesn't even realize it. The biggest criticism against him is that he really has no clue where he stands, and instead of changing that image of himself and finally taking a firm stance on issues, he tries to justify his inconsistencies by coming up with complicated nonsensical arguments to make sense of why one day he supports something, then the next day he doesn't, then he does again... blah blah blah...

I still want to know for sure whether Kerry would have supported this war. That's my only problem with George Bush, I still maintain that the war in Iraq was one of the biggest most ignorant moves the U.S. could have made in the Middle East. Apart from that I am pretty inline with George Bush's policies.

If John Kerry has the same belief as George Bush on Iraq, then Kerry would make a far, far, worse President and I hope to God he loses.

[imported_Kranar]

Oh, and I'd also like to know where Kerry stands on the US PATRIOT Act.

Not my country, but if you read the Act in its entirety, which I have, it's enough to make any citizen think twice about their civil liberties.

[Chelle]

"Kerry is the only person who has to google his name to know where his current stance is." -- Pataki

:lol:

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Kefka, quoting Kerry
I'm not going to have my commitment to defend this country questioned by those who refused to serve when they could have Why is he taking shots at Clinton?

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Kranar
Oh, and I'd also like to know where Kerry stands on the US PATRIOT Act.

Not my country, but if you read the Act in its entirety, which I have, it's enough to make any citizen think twice about their civil liberties.

Since you are not a citizen and I am.. I'll say you would be completely incorrect on that statement.

Thanks though.

let's all join the Libertarian party :beer:

[imported_Kranar]

<< Since you are not a citizen and I am.. I'll say you would be completely incorrect on that statement. >>

Being a citizen doesn't mean you understand the act.

Having read it does.

[AnticorRifling]

I agree the patriot act is crap.

This election is voting for the lesser of two evils. I'll vote for Bush because I think he's the lesser of the two evils. I don't really like either canidate but the one I like least is Kerry.

[imported_Kranar]

Can anyone confirm whether John Kerry voted to pass the US PATRIOT Act?

[Kefka]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52839-2004Aug9.html

In response, Kerry said: "Yes, I would have voted for the authority. I believe it was the right authority for a president to have."

But Kerry has charged that the president and his advisers badly mishandled the war, and in the news conference he posed sharp questions for Bush.

"Why did we rush to war without a plan to win the peace?" he asked. "Why did you rush to war on faulty intelligence and not do the hard work necessary to give America the truth?"

"Why did he mislead America about how he would go to war?" he added. "Why has he not brought other countries to the table in order to support American troops in the way they deserve it and relieve the pressure on the American people?"

Read the words. Not the spin.

$87 Billion
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=155

Patriot Act
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=155

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/kerry/articles/2003/12/02/kerry_pledges_to_end_era_of_ashcroft/

[Kefka]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5897622

Even DINO's have the uses

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Kranar
<< Since you are not a citizen and I am.. I'll say you would be completely incorrect on that statement. >>

Being a citizen doesn't mean you understand the act.

Having read it does.

I have read the Patriot Act Kranar.. and I still have nothing to worry about.

And since you are not a citizen of the United States.. neither do you.

[Parkbandit]

Great speech by Bush. I can't wait for the debates.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
...and I still have nothing to worry about.

Famous last words. And I hope the day comes you get to eat them. The threat to any person's civil liberties and human rights is a threat to everyone's. not to mention a threat to everything the US stands for.

Anyway, one good thing will come about because of the RNC... Kerry finally looks like he's getting angry. It's about time he stops turning the other cheek and starts hitting back. And yes, the debates should be a very good thing. Bush is more amusing without his speech writers.

Raven

[Chelle]

Kerry turn the other cheek? Now thats funny, considering he started the "hitting". I've read Kerrys responses to what's been said about him. No turning the other cheek is something he definately is not doing.

[Hulkein]

Now it's your turn to bash me back for being over-dramatic Backlash :D because I thought his speech was amazing.

He laid out his domestic plans (which all democrats were waiting for) and was just so genuine with the rest of it.

[Hulkein]

Oh, and if Bush could hold his own with Gore than I don't see him having any problem at all handling Kerry, especially since he has four years of presidency under his belt.

[Ilvane]

He only held his own because people had such low expectations of him. Now it's a bit different.

Kerry isn't Gore either, thank goodness.

I think Kerry has done plenty of turning the other cheek with the Swift Boats ads, considering how much damage they did to him even though they aren't even proved to be true. He only recently started fighting back, which I think he should have done months ago.

-A

[Hulkein]

The only swiftboat ad that you have any chance to debate is the one talking about how he got his medals. That is the one that can be debated as no one knows the truth.

The other swiftboat ads are completely true. They are what he said and how those still fighting felt about what he said.

I also don't believe John Kerry is any smarter or more importantly a better orator/communicator/debater than Gore. Bush on the other hand has 4 years of experience and confidence of being the incumbent behind him.

I'm sorry but I don't believe the debates will be lopsided either way.

[Ravenstorm]

Bush away from his speech writers is an imbecile (actually he's always an imbecile but it's more obvious then). Note the 'we can't win the war on terrorism' comment he made when he was let off his leash. And then the very next day, his keepers told what to say and he flip-flopped on it.

Raven

[Hulkein]

You'd have to be retarded to not understand what he meant. You're obviously not retarded so the other option is the fact that you already hate him so bad you won't vote for him anyway.

He has said himself 100000 times without speech writers that they will defeat terrorists.

If he was that big of an imbecile he wouldn't have been elected president over Gore who was being backed by CLINTON in 2000. They did debate ya know =)

[Edited on 9-3-2004 by Hulkein]

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
Bush away from his speech writers is an imbecile (actually he's always an imbecile but it's more obvious then). Note the 'we can't win the war on terrorism' comment he made when he was let off his leash. And then the very next day, his keepers told what to say and he flip-flopped on it.

Raven

I believe, taken into context, he was accurate.

The "can't" statement was in response to the theoretical short term approach of the question, which is true.

The "can" is in response to the long run reality of the question, which is also true.

[Tsa`ah]

Ok.

Nixon did not end the Viet Nam conflict. Don't give him credit for it.
You can thank the congressmen and senators of the time for pulling their heads out of their asses and forcing the administration to cease hostilities.

Being a citizen of this country does not lend a better understanding to things such as the Patriot Act. In fact I would accept a neutral opinion on it before I accepted a staunch pro or con voice. I live in this country and I do in fact think it has more damaging potential to the people it is supposed to defend.

I've been reading and watching Bush interviews and it isn't pretty. The guy is coached and the questions are screened and he still fucks up.

Enough rambling .... I'll leave off with the most momentous event in RNC history.

Fox news coverage of the RNC ... Billionaires for Bush in every single shot.

PWND!

[Edited on 9-3-2004 by Tsa`ah]

[imported_Kranar]

<< Being a citizen of this country does not lend a better understanding to things such as the Patriot Act. In fact I would accept a neutral opinion on it before I accepted a staunch pro or con voice. I live in this country and I do in fact think it has more damaging potential to the people it is supposed to defend. >>

Not just that, but the US PATRIOT Act fails to address the issue of terrorism.

9/11 did NOT occur because of a failure in civil liberties. It occured because of a failure in intelligence. All investigations including the independent 9/11 comission's investigation have made conclusions about 9/11 that do not in anyway suggest that the freedoms and liberties of citizens got in the way of the FBI or the CIA to prevent 9/11 but that the amount of bureaucracy and lack of information sharing is what did.

Giving the government the powers available in the US PATRIOT Act not only weakens your civil liberties, it allows government to exploit power from its citizens for a failure its citizens were never responsible for in the first place.

That's the sign of an irresponsible government, and those who support their liberties taken away out of fear and anxiety are irresponsible citizens.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ilvane
He only held his own because people had such low expectations of him. Now it's a bit different.

Kerry isn't Gore either, thank goodness.

I think Kerry has done plenty of turning the other cheek with the Swift Boats ads, considering how much damage they did to him even though they aren't even proved to be true. He only recently started fighting back, which I think he should have done months ago.

-A

From an electability standpoint.. I would say Kerry is worse than Gore... if you are a Democrat.

Personally, I like Kerry better because he makes my candidate look good.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Nakiro

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
Bush away from his speech writers is an imbecile (actually he's always an imbecile but it's more obvious then). Note the 'we can't win the war on terrorism' comment he made when he was let off his leash. And then the very next day, his keepers told what to say and he flip-flopped on it.

Raven

I believe, taken into context, he was accurate.

The "can't" statement was in response to the theoretical short term approach of the question, which is true.

The "can" is in response to the long run reality of the question, which is also true. The war on terrorism is a neverending one. It is also one that cannot be won at least not by conventional standards. Bush was partially corret.

[Parkbandit]

Bush was completely correct in what he said to Matt on NBC. To believe, as Kerry would lead you to believe, that the United States can eliminate all terrorism across the entire planet is just another example of John Kerry saying things that he has no power to control or plan to go with.

Kerry tries to paint himself as a little fairy that can fix everything with his magic wand. Unfortunately, there are many that believe he can.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Hulkein
Older pictures of her aren't that good, looks like she just recently has come into her own.

http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/101581.jpg

Very nice, except Jenna looks like she's storing nuts in her cheeks for winter.

[Valthissa]

Originally posted by Kranar


That's the sign of an irresponsible government, and those who support their liberties taken away out of fear and anxiety are irresponsible citizens.

These types of discussions always make me think of Thomas Hobbes book, Leviathon. I remember thinking how brilliant he must of been to distill the unrest of the 17th century social/political structure into that book.

I agree that the patriot act does nothing (little?) to protect us from terrorism. Isn't the real question what we as citizens would be willing to give up in the form of civil liberties in exchange for real protection from the current crop of Islamic terrorists?

C/Valth

[DeV]

Freedom should not have to be given up in exchange for freedom.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by Wezas
[quote]
http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/101581.jpg



I'd vote for them.

[Artha]

Me too, especially if they were running on a "We will take off our clothes for you :heart:" platform.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage

Originally posted by Wezas
[quote]
http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/101581.jpg



I'd vote for them.

:hitit::bananahit:

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
Bush away from his speech writers is an imbecile (actually he's always an imbecile but it's more obvious then). Note the 'we can't win the war on terrorism' comment he made when he was let off his leash. And then the very next day, his keepers told what to say and he flip-flopped on it."I mean, look, the President has won every debate he’s ever had. People need to understand that."

Not bad for an imbecile, eh? Guess who said that. :saint:

There are plenty of homegrown American terrorists, and there have been for some time. That's what I'm hoping the liberty-encroaching parts of the Patriot Act goes to work on. Terrorists from the Middle East aren't the whole problem, and I'd bet they aren't even the majority of the problem.

[GSTamral]

<<<
<<I heard a whole lot of hope from John Edwards, and comparing the two conventions, so far..I'd rather have the Democrats as leaders than the Republicans.>>
>>>

To have this statement qualify to mean anything, how about answering a follow up. Have you ever voted a republican over a democrat? In which election, and why?

If you're attempting to use a statement like that under the context that you are a swing voter now convinced after the conventions that Kerry is the light, I don't think you'd be fooling anybody

[Ilvane]

Yes, I did vote for two Republicans in my life. First was Governor William Weld, in Mass, and second was in the primaries for John McCain.

So, if I found a good Republican, I would vote for him or her. Until the religious right and conservative coalition relinquish the control, I will not vote that way.

-A

[Latrinsorm]

This week's sign of the apocalypse:

ILVANE is/was a registered Republican.

[Hulkein]

Bush is ahead in Times most recent poll 52% to John Kerry's 41%. That is from 8/31 to 9/2 so I do not believe it takes into account Bush's speech.

Say goodbye to any chance, Johnny boy. Unless the Bush campaign self destructs, this election is probably going to Bush.

[Kefka]

Flip flopper. I guess you were against polls before you were for them.

P.S. I still don't believe in polls.

[Hulkein]

lol, I got ripped apart for putting credence in polls a few weeks ago. I was always for them, even when Bush was down a few percentage points =)

Here is more in depth polling.. Very good gains if you're a Bush fan.

--
New York: For the first time since the Presidential race became a two person contest last spring, there is a clear leader, the latest TIME poll shows. If the 2004 election for President were held today, 52% of likely voters surveyed would vote for President George W. Bush, 41% would vote for Democratic nominee John Kerry, and 3% would vote for Ralph Nader, according to a new TIME poll conducted from Aug. 31 to Sept. 2. Poll results are available on TIME.com and will appear in the upcoming issue of TIME magazine, on newsstands Monday, Sept. 6.

Most important issues: When asked what they consider are the most important issues, 25% of registered voters cited the economy as the top issue, followed by 24% who cited the war on terrorism as the top issue. The situation in Iraq was rated the top issue by 17% of registered voters, moral values issues such as gay marriage and abortion were the top issue for 16% of respondents, and health care was the most important issue for 11% of respondents.

Bush vs. Kerry:
The economy: 47% trust President Bush more to handle the economy, while 45% trust Kerry.
Health care: 48% trust Senator Kerry to handle health care issues, while 42% trust Bush.
Iraq: 53% trust Bush to handle the situation in Iraq, while 41% trust Kerry.
Terrorism: 57% trust Bush to handle the war on terrorism, while 36% trust Kerry.
Understanding the needs of people: 47% said they trust Kerry to understand the needs of people like themselves, while 44% trusted Bush to understand their needs.
Providing strong leadership: 56% said they trust Bush to provide strong leadership in difficult times, while 37% said they trust Kerry to provide leadership in difficult times.
Tax policy: 49% trust Bush to handle tax policy, while 40% trust Kerry.
Commanding the Armed Forces: 54% said they trust Bush to be commander-in-chief of the armed forces, while 39% said they trust Kerry.

Bush on the Issues:
Iraq: Half (50%) of those surveyed approve of the way President Bush is handling the situation in Iraq, while 46% disapprove. In last week’s TIME poll, 48% approved of the way Bush was handling the situation in Iraq and 48% disapproved.
Terrorism: Almost two thirds (59%) said they approve of how President Bush is handling the war on terrorism, while 38% disapprove. Last week’s TIME poll found 55% approved of Bush’s handling of the war on terrorism, while 40% disapproved.
The Economy: Survey respondents were split on the President’s handling of the economy. Almost half (48%) said the approved of Bush’s handling of the economy, while 48% said the disapproved.

Other results include:
Was U.S. Right Going to War with Iraq? Over half of those surveyed (52%) think the U.S. was right in going to war with Iraq, while 41% think the U.S. was wrong to go to war.

Have the United States’ actions in Iraq made the world safer? Almost half (45%) think the United States’ actions in Iraq have made the world safer, while 45% think the world is more dangerous. In a similar TIME poll taken Aug. 3 – 5, over half (52%) said the world was more dangerous, and 38% said the world was safer.
--
http://www.time.com/time/press_releases/article/0,8599,692562,00.html

[Tsa`ah]

Please God, no more polling BS.

[kheldarin]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Please God, no more polling BS.

Just because Bush is winning it.
HEHEHEHEHAHAHAHA.

Did Bush compare Iraq to WW2? Someone told me he did and I laughed.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
Did Bush compare Iraq to WW2? Someone told me he did and I laughed.

He compared the way the critics are saying the reconstruction in Iraq is not working to the ones that were saying the same thing about German reconstruction.

[Ilvane]

:nutty:

It's about time the incumbent came close to the challenger. I still think Kerry is doing well, and after the convention bounce it's going to go right back to where it was before. Once the truth comes out about the sunshine Bush spread in his speech, and the misinformation that was said during the speeches, it will change.

-A

[Artha]

At least there was a convention bounce.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Ilvane
Once the truth comes out about the sunshine Bush spread in his speechIt amazes me that you can say that with your sig and a straight face.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by kheldarin

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Please God, no more polling BS.

Just because Bush is winning it.
HEHEHEHEHAHAHAHA.

Nah, Tsa`ah has always said he is against polling. I'll give that to him.

PS. Ilvane, what misinformation was in the speeches? The republicans ripped up Kerry because of his Senate record. There is little misinformation there. Kerry has a terrible Senate record, that is the reason he and everyone else speaking completely ignored it at his OWN convention.

[Edited on 9-4-2004 by Hulkein]

[Kefka]

http://www.rasmussenreports.com /

Bush 49% Kerry 45%

If I was to believe in polls, which I don't, I'd be more likely to believe the numbers from people who's actual job is polling.

[Ilvane]

Bush wants to keep doing his policies which are not working well, yet he has no plan to change it. Eventually that deficit is going to catch up with him, and my generation and my children's generation is going to wind up paying for it. Bush won't have to worry about it!!

I just want to say too, I have no problem with going to war for a good reason, but I just don't see that Bush had a strong plan to lead us in and out of there, and he didn't have the foresight to see that maybe it wasn't going to be easy to get out of Iraq. Kerry at least has a plan to get more countries involved with it, so we don't overstress our military, and have to pay for it with all of our tax dollars.

As for the post convention bounce, they weren't expecting it for Kerry anyway because he was already above where he should have been for a challenger. It's only normal for the incumbent to have more of a bounce. I think after the debates, things will change once again.

It's going to be a close election, not a run away for Bush.

-A

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Ilvane
It's only normal for the incumbent to have more of a bounce.

Wrong.

Convention Bounce Statistics Spanning 1964-2000

Average Incumbents' Bounce - 5.6%
Average Challenger Bounce - 7.1%

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Kefka
http://www.rasmussenreports.com /

Bush 49% Kerry 45%

If I was to believe in polls, which I don't, I'd be more likely to believe the numbers from people who's actual job is polling.

Yeah I agree, I trust Rasmussen more.

The polls that truely judge a bounce in the convention get released Sunday/Monday, when they are able to poll everyone after the convention, not have some of its sample actually being asked midway through it.

[GSTamral]

This election will not be as close as 2000. In 2000, Gore had the backing of Clinton, and still could not win.

On a side note, Ilvane, how about pointing out that Gore accepted money from a member of the coalition that ordered the massacre of students protesting for the very freedoms you say Bush is taking away from us in Tienneman's Square? I mean, until it was brought into the light, and even after so, the money was returned with great reluctance.

You always seem to put everything in such a spin as to invalidate your own arguments. How about some objectivity? You are quoting sources that are the same distance to the left from objective that Edine quotes from the right. It's almost as bad as Ravenstorm. I'm not asking you to take Fox news stories here, or the national review, but come on here.

Put the right spin on it, and you can say everything that both candidates did is bad and horrible and evil and they are liars and dirty politicians.

The swift boat veterans didn't do anything worse than MoveOn, yet you don't criticize MoveOn for their statements.

Kerry's biggest financial advertising supporter, George Soros. Do some research on him, and find out how he made his billions. He assaulted a world currency by selling it short, devastating the British economy in the short run.

Some things I would like to point out from the convention.

Number of arrests at the Republican Convention: 1800+
Number of arrests at the Democrat convention: 4

Number of police officers beaten and or hospitalized by protestors:
Republican: 2
Democrat: 0

Not to classify all liberals as extremists, but it seems so very odd that these same people advocating freedom and peace are beating the crap out of people and breaking countless laws over political views, but reject the idea of going to war over them.

Republicans hated Clinton with the same fervor that Dems hate Bush. Yet, no big violence at protests, no major arrests. Puts things in perspective.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by GSTamral
Not to classify all liberals as extremists, but it seems so very odd that these same people advocating freedom and peace are beating the crap out of people and breaking countless laws over political views, but reject the idea of going to war over them. ...

I don't even know where to start on that.

[Kefka]

<<Number of arrests at the Republican Convention: 1800+
Number of arrests at the Democrat convention: 4

Number of police officers beaten and or hospitalized by protestors:
Republican: 2
Democrat: 0 >>

Were you actually at the protests to see how and why these people were arrested? Do you believe everything you see in the news? Have you considered that cops were probably beaten because they were also trying to grab innocent locals passing by?

[GSTamral]

Yes Kefka, you are right. The NYC cops are a brooding right wing organization bent up on arresting as many people as possible who's views differ from their own. The presence of protestors in new york gave them ample time and ability to violate everyone's freedoms and arrest them for no cause.

Yes, absolutely, these trained professionals, some of whom lost their lives saving these people in the line of duty now want nothing more than payback, and it was entirely the police's fault. I mean, those protestors would never commit any crimes.

[Ilvane]

There were also many more protesters in New York than there were in Boston. I know this because I live in Boston, and saw it first hand.

-A

[GSTamral]

Ilvane,

what brings people out in droves like that for protest? Enthusiasm for their cause. Large amounts of enthusiams + lack of disclipline and organization = chaos.

I mean, god forbid the protestors care about the people who live in the city who just want to be able to get around and get a bag of groceries. God forbid they shut the fuck up at 2 a.m when some people are trying to sleep.

There is a point at which the enthusiams begins to channel in all the wrong ways. The vigor and numbers they presented decry a far more violent and enthusiastic group.

[Kefka]

<<Kerry's biggest financial advertising supporter, George Soros. Do some research on him, and find out how he made his billions. He assaulted a world currency by selling it short, devastating the British economy in the short run.>>

As oppose to Scaife, Moonie, Murdoch?

[Ilvane]

Oh, and by the way..as far as going to war let me just note John Kerry volunteered to go, Dick Cheney took 5 deferrments.

Yet he isn't afraid to send other peoples children to war, now is he?

My sources mostly are from factcheck.org for the most part, and they are bipartisan, and if you look at the website, they go on both sides of the issues on the fact checks.

And Tamral, Move on is usually on with the facts, the Swift Boat guys were not stating the facts, they twisted what Kerry said, and also are calling him a liar when the fact is his crew was there, and they support his side of the story. I don't agree with everything move on does either, they are a little too left for me. I have to say though, I would rather have the two men sit and talk about the issues than rehash issues from 30 years ago. That doesn't seem to be the way things are turning out though.

-A

[GSTamral]

Ilvane, you can spin it any way you'd like. The number of registered republicans and registered democrats in this country are not that far apart in number. Yet one side has staged far more protests than the other. One side has had to deal with many more incidents of violence and HATRED than the other. One side has been far less civil than the other. I'm not just talking about the convention either. How many republican protestors were arrested during Clinton's ENTIRE 8 year tenure? How many were arrested on Thursday ALONE?

Case Closed.

[Kefka]

Originally posted by GSTamral
Yes Kefka, you are right. The NYC cops are a brooding right wing organization bent up on arresting as many people as possible who's views differ from their own. The presence of protestors in new york gave them ample time and ability to violate everyone's freedoms and arrest them for no cause.

Yes, absolutely, these trained professionals, some of whom lost their lives saving these people in the line of duty now want nothing more than payback, and it was entirely the police's fault. I mean, those protestors would never commit any crimes.

No. The NYPD is controlled by republican mayor Mike Bloomberg.

[Ilvane]

They are passionate about their cause, and disagree with the government: Isn't America great that we can do that?

I love my country, yet I disagree with many things our goverment does. I still am a proud American who wants my country to do better in the world, and not alianate our allies and others who don't agree with us.

:)

-A

[GSTamral]

Kefka, if you want to talk about economic damage done by a single person to a whole people, there were wars between nations that caused less damage than Soros.

[GSTamral]

Yes Kefka, Mayor Bloomberg ordered police to manhandle people and hurt them and arrest them without cause. Holy shit.

[GSTamral]

Ilvane, yes we are free to question our government. That is what makes America great. But we can question our government without violence and crime. We get to vote. We can vote out someone we don't like.

I mean, your spin is so evident that it transcends the topic. Earlier you stated that McCain's argument was taking away from Michael Moore's free speech. Absolutely not. Just as Moore has the right to air and voice his opinions about George Bush, McCain has the right to air and voice his opinions about Michael Moore. Just as Michael Moore has the right to say one side of a story in a light he spun himself about someone else, so too does another have the right to do the same thing to him.

Freedom is a two way street here Ilvane. You have the right to criticize others, just as they have that same right to do to you.

[Hulkein]

Kefka, instead of blaming the cops and accusing them of arresting people for being democrats (forget the fact that the majority of them are no doubt also democrats) why not thank them for the work they did? I don't recall hearing one report of police abuse during that entire week. All this despite one of their brothers being beaten into a coma and hundreds of other officers being treated for injuries which occurred during crowd control.

You live there, after all, show some respect to those protecting your life.


[Edited on 9-4-2004 by Hulkein]

[GSTamral]

In Incidents such as the protest, there will without doubt be acts of violence. The trained professionals react to violence with restraint, but must use force if needed. Most of those cops are democrats as well.

But as kefka said, they were ordered to beat down the evil commie liberals by Mayor Bloomberg.

[Kefka]

Originally posted by GSTamral
Yes Kefka, Mayor Bloomberg ordered police to manhandle people and hurt them and arrest them without cause. Holy shit.

And? If you don't think Bloomberg has complete control of the actions of the NYPD, then you've never been to NY.

[GSTamral]

It reminds me of some of the protests I saw at Duke.

two in particular.

One incident involved some members of the FCA called something else (members of both groups), a very right wing group of Christians, chalking up "Jesus is Risen" ALL over campus the day after Easter. It was both an eyesore and annoying, because some of the chalk was on the benches and other places where people sat.

The University response was immediate. Clean the shit up. Now.

Their response: They cleaned it up within the week, apologizing to people whom they offended, and later in the week wrote a large article in the school paper stating that they were exercising their belief and their faith, and that the School should not have taken the stance they did. The article apologized to people whom were inconvenienced, but their beliefs were that other than the Benches, the chalk would have washed away with the first rain.

They protested by holding a candlelight vigil outside the chapel. Number of protestors - roughly 100.


A second protest involved supporters of Clinton to his re-election putting Clinton-Gore stickers everywhere on campus, including places like benches, other people's cars, people's windows, and such. After quite a stir, the University ordered them to stop putting them up anywhere on campus except places designated for such signs.

Their response was a rather scathing paper article about having their freedoms infringed, since they now could not put them even outside their own dormitories unless it was their own window, or the dormitory sign board.

They then held up the Teer Building, locked themselves inside the print office and stayed there for an entire weekend, not letting anyone in, including University officials, one of whom was hurt from pushing and shoving.

There is a difference between peaceful protests and violent ones of passion and/or rage.

I'm not saying all liberals are filled with rage, but they have acted that way MUCH moreso than their conservative counterparts, and have shown a much higher tendency to commit violent acts to get their own way.

1800 arrests is around 1% of the protestors. 1 in 100 is a LOT.

[Latrinsorm]

Wait, are you counting the Christian group as conservative or liberal?

[GSTamral]

We have several buildings in NY. In fact, UPS gets so many parking tickets in NY, we negotiate with police for what we pay.

We don't talk to bloomberg when we negotiate.

Hate to break the news to you, but Bloomberg does not have the authority to ask police to break the law. Bloomberg does not have the authority to ask an officer to beat people up. And if you think he did, we might as well stop this argument now, because it won't go anywhere.

[GSTamral]

Latrin, the Christian group is non partisan officially, and there are surely democrats in the group, but by and large, they are a conservative organization.

[Kefka]

Originally posted by Hulkein
Kefka, instead of blaming the cops and accusing them of arresting people for being democrats (forget the fact that the majority of them are no doubt also democrats) why not thank them for the work they did? I don't recall hearing one report of police abuse during that entire week. All this despite one of their brothers being beaten into a coma and hundreds of other officers being treated for injuries which occurred during crowd control.

You live there, after all, show some respect to those protecting your life.


[Edited on 9-4-2004 by Hulkein]

http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/politics/index.ssf?/base/politics-5/1094169886105410.xml&storylist=electionmi

Second time posted in this thread. If you're gonna ignore news like that, then why even post not hearing about abuse. Maybe this person caused his own injuries?

Putting on a badge does not give you respect. Respect is earned. Where are your priorities?

[Kefka]

Originally posted by GSTamral
We have several buildings in NY. In fact, UPS gets so many parking tickets in NY, we negotiate with police for what we pay.

We don't talk to bloomberg when we negotiate.

Hate to break the news to you, but Bloomberg does not have the authority to ask police to break the law. Bloomberg does not have the authority to ask an officer to beat people up. And if you think he did, we might as well stop this argument now, because it won't go anywhere.

Yes. Please stop this stupid arguement. If you're gonna base your opinion of NY law enforcement on tickets some of your UPS trucks get, it's borderline retarded.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Kefka
Second time posted in this thread. If you're gonna ignore news like that, then why even post not hearing about abuse. Maybe this person caused his own injuries?I ignored the article the first time, but if you insist on bringing it up: Maybe he's lying. Let's examine both sides.

Police side:
No motivation to arrest people for the hell of it; paperwork, bad publicity, etc.

Activist side:
Lots of motivation to claim he was arrested for no reason; illustrate police brutality, win sympathy from hot hippie chicks.

:shrug:

[GSTamral]

Yes, you're right kefka. Mayor Bloomberg ordered NYC cops to beat up and arrest all democrats in the city. Please. That is the stupidest conspiracy I've ever heard. Do you have even ONE SHRED of evidence to support this from a legitimate source?

[GSTamral]

Seriously. Protestors always blame all arrests to things like Police brutality, police were ordered in a conspiracy against us, etc..

Even they in truth don't buy their own bullshit. To think someone else actually does is mind boggling.

[Kefka]

Or maybe he just told them to round up protesters if they seem like they're getting too rowdy. Maybe innocents were rounded up along with the protesters.

And Latrin, when you actually work with people who's been gathered up because they just wanted to check out what's up with the protesters, that kinda debunks your statement, doesn't it?

[Ilvane]

Tim Kulik, 22, a photography student at the Rochester Institute of Technology who was transporting film for photographers at The Associated Press when he was arrested late Tuesday on his bicycle, was freed Thursday after 35 hours.
He said he was scraped on his face and bruised on his leg and neck when a police officer tackled him before other officers completed the arrest. The officer who tackled him later tightened his handcuffs when he asked that they be loosened, he said.
"As far as police, they're good, pretty objective and professional, but then I encountered plenty of disrespectful police who abuse their positions," he said


Wow, Kefka, that is really an interesting story. That kid sounded like he wasn't even involved in the protest, and got arrested for being there, and they were not very professional. That's sad to me.

-A

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ilvane
There were also many more protesters in New York than there were in Boston. I know this because I live in Boston, and saw it first hand.

-A

That's because most of the Republicans were at work. And if Kerry actually took a stand for anything.. then maybe we would have something to protest.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ilvane
They are passionate about their cause, and disagree with the government: Isn't America great that we can do that?

I love my country, yet I disagree with many things our goverment does. I still am a proud American who wants my country to do better in the world, and not alianate our allies and others who don't agree with us.

:)

-A

America IS great... but we also have laws. Break the laws and go to jail.

Obviously one party has learned this.. one still has not.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by GSTamral
Yes, you're right kefka. Mayor Bloomberg ordered NYC cops to beat up and arrest all democrats in the city. Please. That is the stupidest conspiracy I've ever heard. Do you have even ONE SHRED of evidence to support this from a legitimate source?

Kefka has brought up many stupid conspiracies.. I doubt if this is the stupidest.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ilvane

Tim Kulik, 22, a photography student at the Rochester Institute of Technology who was transporting film for photographers at The Associated Press when he was arrested late Tuesday on his bicycle, was freed Thursday after 35 hours.
He said he was scraped on his face and bruised on his leg and neck when a police officer tackled him before other officers completed the arrest. The officer who tackled him later tightened his handcuffs when he asked that they be loosened, he said.
"As far as police, they're good, pretty objective and professional, but then I encountered plenty of disrespectful police who abuse their positions," he said


Wow, Kefka, that is really an interesting story. That kid sounded like he wasn't even involved in the protest, and got arrested for being there, and they were not very professional. That's sad to me.

-A

OH NO! ONE PERSON WAS ARRESTED THAT CLAIMED HE WAS INNOCENT! THERE'S A FIRST!!!

Fine, the number is still 1799 to 4. That really proved your point.

Not.

[Ilvane]

That's because most of the Republicans were at work. And if Kerry actually took a stand for anything.. then maybe we would have something to protest.

You really are not a nice man.

I work full time, so do most of my friends, and many of us are Democrats. I in fact, worked my way through school, and busted my behind to get where I am.

That comment was just plain rude.

-A

[Kefka]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by GSTamral
Yes, you're right kefka. Mayor Bloomberg ordered NYC cops to beat up and arrest all democrats in the city. Please. That is the stupidest conspiracy I've ever heard. Do you have even ONE SHRED of evidence to support this from a legitimate source?

Kefka has brought up many stupid conspiracies.. I doubt if this is the stupidest.

Ah the smear king has awaken. Who needs facts and articles when you have name calling and republican talking points to back you up? Do you ever post anything meaningful in a debate PB or do you just sit around waiting to call people dumb or conspiracy theorists?

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Kefka
And Latrin, when you actually work with people who's been gathered up because they just wanted to check out what's up with the protesters, that kinda debunks your statement, doesn't it? There's some pronoun trouble in that statement, but I think I can follow it, and again I question the trustworthiness of the non-police (in this case your co-workers' ) account. If you're contradicting the police spokesperson, you're calling the police liars, and you will have your honesty questioned in turn. Frankly, given some of the things you've posted in the past, I'm leaning towards the police's side.

I'm not trying to say that nobody innocent has ever been arrested. That would be silly.
Originally posted by Ilvane
You really are not a nice man.Next you're going to tell me Longshot curses sometimes. :saint:

edit: That apostrophe end parentheses thing always gets me.

[Edited on 9-4-2004 by Latrinsorm]

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Kefka

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by GSTamral
Yes, you're right kefka. Mayor Bloomberg ordered NYC cops to beat up and arrest all democrats in the city. Please. That is the stupidest conspiracy I've ever heard. Do you have even ONE SHRED of evidence to support this from a legitimate source?

Kefka has brought up many stupid conspiracies.. I doubt if this is the stupidest.

Ah the smear king has awaken. Who needs facts and articles when you have name calling and republican talking points to back you up? Do you ever post anything meaningful in a debate PB or do you just sit around waiting to call people dumb or conspiracy theorists?

Seriously Keska.. you use the same flawed logic Ilvane uses.

YOU are the one that came here to say that the reason why 1800 people were arrested in NYC was because the mayor was Republican and that he controlled the police.

Facts? Meaningful debate?

Come on Kefka, you've proven that you do not care what the facts say.. as long as you can somehow spin it to make it look the way you want.. then it's fact enough for you.

Stone.. Glass House?

Pot Kettle anyone?

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ilvane

That's because most of the Republicans were at work. And if Kerry actually took a stand for anything.. then maybe we would have something to protest.

You really are not a nice man.

I work full time, so do most of my friends, and many of us are Democrats. I in fact, worked my way through school, and busted my behind to get where I am.

That comment was just plain rude.

-A

Saying the reason that the Republicans didn't get arrested because they were at work was probably one of the least rude things I've said.

[Ilvane]

I like to have a civil debate, and inferring that Democrats don't work is a bit rude.

Maybe it's just the Republican are rich and don't need to work, and the Democrats are the middle class that are seeing the effects of Bush's fantastic economic policies. May be why they are protesting.

I don't have to be uncivil, but I can be.

-A

[Parkbandit]

:P

[CrystalTears]

I read these political threads just for PB sometimes. :lol:

[DeV]

I can't debate politics anymore ... it's retarded because people will believe what they want, regardless.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by DarkelfVold
I can't debate politics anymore ... it's retarded because people will believe what they want, regardless.

Yeah, I agree. I put my input out there once in a while but not hoping anyone like Kefka will change their minds or even concede little points. After all NYC is run by a republican mayor so the police force now hates democrats.

[Ravenstorm]

Bloomberg's not too bad a mayor. He sure beats the hell out of Dinkins. Not that I live in the city.

Raven

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
I read these political threads just for PB sometimes. :lol:

I write in these political threads just to entertain CrystalTears sometimes.

:smug:

[CrystalTears]

Stop it. You're making me blush. :kisshand:

[Ilvane]

Thanks CT, makes me think you hate me quite a bit.;)

-A

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ilvane
Thanks CT, makes me think you hate me quite a bit.;)

-A

Dear Ilvane;

Please grow some outer skin.

Thanks.

[CrystalTears]

WTF? I don't hate you at all! I like you very much. That doesn't, however, mean that I should agree with the lying bit because I certainly don't. I thought Hulkein's analogy was a perfect example, it's just unfortunate he used your username for it.

My laughter was not personal, and you feeling that it may have been makes me feel like you hate ME a bit. :P

[Edited on 9/5/2004 by CrystalTears]

[Tsa`ah]

The only accurate poll will be taken in November, until then they are just political tools of social manipulation.

Ban them and be done with it.