Three teens charged in Australian Christopher Lane's death

[Sile]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23771858

Wow, do you think first degree would hold up?

[Gelston]

"They saw Christopher go by, and one of them said, 'there's our target,'" Chief Ford said.

"The boy who has talked to us said, 'we were bored and didn't have anything to do, so we decided to kill somebody.'"

Yes. 1st Degree will hold up... If that is, of course, a true admission that was gathered within the confines of the law. That shows premeditation, in my opinion.

And, having looked at crimes dealing with minors in the state of Oklahoma, 13+ for murder to get big boy court. 16+ for felonies, but the guy that go the accessory is 17, so he gets to be an adult too.

[Latrinsorm]

This is kind of racist but I would not have guessed that the one guy who was white had the middle name "Dewayne".

And also, for the record, it's pretty hard to kill someone with a drive-by knifing. Just throwing that out there.

Finally, I don't know how things go in the Commonwealth but here in Commonwealth Senior we aren't too trusting of "Police say", especially when it comes to accused African Americans.

[Sile]

This is kind of racist but I would not have guessed that the one guy who was white had the middle name "Dewayne".

And also, for the record, it's pretty hard to kill someone with a drive-by knifing. Just throwing that out there.

Finally, I don't know how things go in the Commonwealth but here in Commonwealth Senior we aren't too trusting of "Police say", especially when it comes to accused African Americans.

Also Ironically the only one that was granted bail was the white guy, now at $1m for a hoodrat I doubt he'll meet bail, but still.

[Gelston]

Well, the white one is also not being charged for 1st Degree. He is probably the one that made the confessions to the police.

[subzero]

This is kind of racist but I would not have guessed that the one guy who was white had the middle name "Dewayne".

Yeah, he's probably not exactly white.



And also, for the record, it's pretty hard to kill someone with a drive-by knifing. Just throwing that out there.


Try it sometime with a bigger knife. Sort of like this, but on an even larger scale:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLS3RGesIFQ

[Savrin]

Finally, I don't know how things go in the Commonwealth but here in Commonwealth Senior we aren't too trusting of "Police say", especially when it comes to accused African Americans.

Not to say there aren't bad apples, but I would take the word of a police officer over your typical hood dweller any day of the week. Are you familiar with the "Lie till you die" mentality of criminals? I know a lot of folks have the wool pulled so far over their eyes that they can't acknowledge the criminal or gang culture but I figured you'd be informed as you seem to be an advocate of statistical data.

[Paradii]

Not to say there aren't bad apples, but I would take the word of a police officer over your typical hood dweller any day of the week. Are you familiar with the "Lie till you die" mentality of criminals? I know a lot of folks have the wool pulled so far over their eyes that they can't acknowledge the criminal or gang culture but I figured you'd be informed as you seem to be an advocate of statistical data.

I like how you used an anecdotal reference as an appeal for use of statistical approaches to answer questions.

Insert image of Inigo Montoya saying "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Fuckin Racists.

[Savrin]

I like how you used an anecdotal reference as an appeal for use of statistical approaches to answer questions.

You have me there sir. I figured someone who is a studier of factual data would conclude that most police are honest and those that do lie aren't doing it for selfish motivations.

If you want statistics, you can do an internet search for statistics where police are dishonest. All of the ones that you can review in a reasonable amount of time concern illegal search and seizure cases which shows good intention if not sound methods. One link shows...

Criminal-justice researchers say it's difficult to quantify how often perjury is being committed. According to a 1992 survey, prosecutors, defense attorneys and judges in Chicago said they thought that, on average, perjury by police occurs 20% of the time in which defendants claim evidence was illegally seized.


Measure that against any literature that talks about criminal mentalities and you'll see the margin of difference.

I assumed I didn't need to dumb it down for Latrinsorm.

[AnticorRifling]

And also, for the record, it's pretty hard to kill someone with a drive-by knifing. Just throwing that out there.



Obviously you don't know how to ghost ride the whip.

[Gelston]

Obviously you don't know how to ghost ride the whip.

I do all my drive-bys with a cavalry saber.

[Taernath]

And also, for the record, it's pretty hard to kill someone with a drive-by knifing. Just throwing that out there.


It would be hard to do a drive by without a car, too.


I do all my drive-bys with a cavalry saber.


Keeping it old school.

http://www.travel-images.com/pht/mongolia157.jpg

[Paradii]

You have me there sir. I figured someone who is a studier of factual data would conclude that most police are honest and those that do lie aren't doing it for selfish motivations.

If you want statistics, you can do an internet search for statistics where police are dishonest. All of the ones that you can review in a reasonable amount of time concern illegal search and seizure cases which shows good intention if not sound methods. One link shows...

Criminal-justice researchers say it's difficult to quantify how often perjury is being committed. According to a 1992 survey, prosecutors, defense attorneys and judges in Chicago said they thought that, on average, perjury by police occurs 20% of the time in which defendants claim evidence was illegally seized.


Measure that against any literature that talks about criminal mentalities and you'll see the margin of difference.

I assumed I didn't need to dumb it down for Latrinsorm.

I would argue the socio-political dynamics have changed sufficiently over the last 21 years that a 1992 reference would be obsolete. Especially, one that is based on what certain people "thought". Making something a percentage doesn't make it a statistic.

[Savrin]

I would argue the socio-political dynamics have changed sufficiently over the last 21 years that a 1992 reference would be obsolete. Especially, one that is based on what certain people "thought". Making something a percentage doesn't make it a statistic.

You're right about the socio-political dynamics having changed. Back then most law enforcement agencies didn't administer psych tests to applicants and their ethical and professional conduct policies were a lot looser. Lying is considered egregious behavior and often results in termination. That doesn't really support your side though sir.

Not an easily quantifiable statistic as dishonesty by its nature lends to making things unclear. A logical person who does a little research and generally relies on statistics and facts can probably conclude that criminals have far more cause to lie than police officers, and a lot less to lose if they are caught at it.

So far your argument has all been directed at semantics instead of the actual point though.

[Latrinsorm]

Not to say there aren't bad apples, but I would take the word of a police officer over your typical hood dweller any day of the week. Are you familiar with the "Lie till you die" mentality of criminals? I know a lot of folks have the wool pulled so far over their eyes that they can't acknowledge the criminal or gang culture but I figured you'd be informed as you seem to be an advocate of statistical data.I would be reasonably confident taking the word of a random police officer over a random criminal, but being accused is not a reliable indicator of criminality. Heck, even being convicted isn't too reliable.

I also want to explicitly mention that it's not just lying but simply being mistaken. A shocking and heinous crime like this prompts strong pressure to solve the case, both external and internal to the police in question.
It would be hard to do a drive by without a car, too.Let's call up Deadliest Warrior and have them compare knifemen in cars to gunmen on bikes.

[Methais]

I wonder when Sharpton and Jackson are gonna....oh wait, this was black on white.

Nevermind.

[Savrin]

I would be reasonably confident taking the word of a random police officer over a random criminal, but being accused is not a reliable indicator of criminality. Heck, even being convicted isn't too reliable.

I also want to explicitly mention that it's not just lying but simply being mistaken. A shocking and heinous crime like this prompts strong pressure to solve the case, both external and internal to the police in question.

While there have been times where people have lied and admitted guilt to something they didn't do under pressure of an interview/interrogation it's fairly uncommon. Usually certain points of a case aren't released to the general public and are used to validate a confession, or indicate when someone knows something they normally shouldn't.

[Latrinsorm]

He could be part Aboriginal! Stop being such a quitter!

[Keller]

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000025780501/26609bf2ae870fca7d8283fdce20c026.jpeg
"YOU KNOW YOU DONE MADE IT WHEN WHITE FOLKS SIT IN THEY HOUSE THININ' BOUT WHETHER YOU GONNA PROTEST OR NOT. I AM A GOD DAMN AMERICAN ICON!" .... REV. AL SHARPTON

http://www.biography.com/imported/images/Biography/Images/Profiles/J/Jesse-Jackson-9351181-1-402.jpg
"YOU'RE GOD DAMNED RIGHT I AM GOING TO PROTEST! THE WHITE HEATHEN IS OUT ON BAIL? THIS IS THE JUSTICE THAT BLACK FOLKS HAVE KNOWN FOR CENTURIES IN THE UNITED SNAKES OF AMERIKKKA!" . . . THE REVEREND JESSE JACKSON

[Methais]

Or it could be that people just know his pimple-on-the-ass-of-society patterns, and that he represents the dumbest of the dumb in America, because nobody with a fully functional brain takes him seriously.

Kim Kardashian is an American icon now too, for what it's (not) worth.

And when did Al become skinnier than Obama? Does he have cancer or something?

[Atlanteax]

Where is TheE to have a discussion with these three about what would be rational behavior?

[Methais]

Where is TheE to have a discussion with these three about what would be rational behavior?

Where is TheE, period?

WHERE THE FUCK ARE YOU EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE?!!?!?!?!?

BREAKING NEWS:

Jesse Jackson totally ‘frowns upon’ thrill killing of student by ‘bored’ teens (http://twitchy.com/2013/08/21/jesse-jackson-totally-frowns-upon-thrill-killing-of-student-by-bored-teens/)

[Paradii]

You're right about the socio-political dynamics having changed. Back then most law enforcement agencies didn't administer psych tests to applicants and their ethical and professional conduct policies were a lot looser. Lying is considered egregious behavior and often results in termination. That doesn't really support your side though sir.

Not an easily quantifiable statistic as dishonesty by its nature lends to making things unclear. A logical person who does a little research and generally relies on statistics and facts can probably conclude that criminals have far more cause to lie than police officers, and a lot less to lose if they are caught at it.

So far your argument has all been directed at semantics instead of the actual point though.

My problem has been your use of statistics. You are using them wrong. I am not really too interested in the actual topic being addressed here.

[Savrin]

My problem has been your use of statistics. You are using them wrong. I am not really too interested in the actual topic being addressed here.

Okay.

[Taernath]

Let's call up Deadliest Warrior and have them compare knifemen in cars to gunmen on bikes.

We could just compromise with the ballistic knife.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbm6enX1k0g

[Latrinsorm]

Oh yeah, now I remember why I hate that show.

Would you say that blade is... spring-assisted?

[subzero]

Let's call up Deadliest Warrior and have them compare knifemen in cars to gunmen on bikes.

My money says the sims show that sword/knife wielding people in cars are more accurate and have deadly force behind their blows, leading to more victories than the highly inaccurate, bike-riding gunmen shooting at people somewhat protected by their vehicle. Re-loading the guns will also prove to be an issue as one would assume the bikers must stop, making easy targets for the blades.

[Gelston]

I don't know....

http://media.egotvonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/army_vehicle_funny_danger-s540x405-9976-580.jpg?41ed4f

[Sile]

My money says the sims show that sword/knife wielding people in cars are more accurate and have deadly force behind their blows, leading to more victories than the highly inaccurate, bike-riding gunmen shooting at people somewhat protected by their vehicle. Re-loading the guns will also prove to be an issue as one would assume the bikers must stop, making easy targets for the blades.

Also a car is a much deadlier weapon then a bike.

[Sile]

I don't know....

http://media.egotvonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/army_vehicle_funny_danger-s540x405-9976-580.jpg?41ed4f

Lol I'm pretty sure I know one of those two. It's definitely Canadian.

[Latrinsorm]

My money says the sims show that sword/knife wielding people in cars are more accurate and have deadly force behind their blows, leading to more victories than the highly inaccurate, bike-riding gunmen shooting at people somewhat protected by their vehicle. Re-loading the guns will also prove to be an issue as one would assume the bikers must stop, making easy targets for the blades.Apparently you're unfamiliar with the John Wayne documentary series: guns don't need to be "reloaded".

[subzero]

I don't know....

http://media.egotvonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/army_vehicle_funny_danger-s540x405-9976-580.jpg?41ed4f

It'd be pretty hilarious to watch if that thing had enough recoil to tip his little cart over if he were to fire to the side.


Also a car is a much deadlier weapon then a bike.

But cars aren't weapons, bro-ham!


Apparently you're unfamiliar with the John Wayne documentary series: guns don't need to be "reloaded".

I always knew that guy was a phoney.

[Taernath]

Oh yeah, now I remember why I hate that show.

Would you say that blade is... spring-assisted?

I'd say it's "...100% pain flying through the air" (Deadliest Warrior, 2010).

[Ker_Thwap]

[QUOTE=Latrinsorm;1581746]This is kind of racist but I would not have guessed that the one guy who was white had the middle name "Dewayne".

As long as it's only "kind of racist."

[Tgo01]

James Francis Edwards faces first-degree murder charges in the shooting death of Christopher Lane. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/22/james-francis-edwards-tweets-racist-messages_n_3794913.html?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk1%26pLid%3D361926)


James Francis Edwards, one of two Oklahoma teenagers charged with murder in the shooting death of Australian college athlete Christopher Lane, is accused of sending racist messages on Twitter.

According to the Daily Caller, Edward supposedly posted tweets containing "anti-white statements" on his Twitter feed months prior to the death of Lane, whom the teen and a friend allegedly shot out of boredom.

However, Duncan, Okla., police chief Dan Ford told the website that he does not believe Edwards' actions warrant a hate crime charge.

“I don’t think there’d be any further charge,” Ford said. “I’m not discounting the stuff that’s on there, but they do that for shock and effect.”

Here are some of the tweets in question:

90% of white ppl are nasty. #HATE THEM
— jamesakabug (@JAMESAKABUG) April 29, 2013

The following tweet was posted two days after a verdict was reached in the trial of George Zimmerman. Although it contains the derogatory term, "wood," it does not go as far as other infamous social media responses to the Zimmerman verdict.

Ayeee I knocced out 5 woods since Zimmerman court!:) lol shit ima keep sleepin shit! #ayeeee ������
— jamesakabug (@JAMESAKABUG) July 15, 2013

According to the Anti-Defamation League website, "in prison slang, a peckerwood or 'wood' was a white inmate who was willing to fight to avoid being raped or robbed."

Nigga of chief keef don't drop almighty SOSA or something by #Monday I'ma put hands on every wood I see until they drop lol @ChiefKeef
— jamesakabug (@JAMESAKABUG) July 24, 2013

The teenager also sent a tweet just three days before the Lane shooting in which he alluded to violence:

With my niggas when it's time to start taken life's
— jamesakabug (@JAMESAKABUG) August 13, 2013


A Vine posted by the suspect in which a black teenager takes aim at the camera with a gun has drawn additional scrutiny.

Christopher Lane, 22, was shot dead during a training run Friday in Duncan, Okla., by teens who were "bored" and "decided to kill somebody," police chief Danny Ford told the Associated Press.

Edwards, 15, faces first-degree murder charges along with Chancey Allen Luna, 16. Under Oklahoma law they will be tried as adults. Michael Dewayne Jones, 17, was charged as an accessory to murder after the fact for driving a vehicle in the incident. He is considered a youthful offender, but will be tried in adult court.

According to the AP, Jones cried in court when he tried to speak about the events, but was silenced by a judge. Prosecutor Jason Hicks described the other suspects' lack of remorse, claiming that one of the boys "thinks it's all a joke."

The case has sparked international outrage, including calls from an Australian politician for tourist from that country to boycott travel to the United States in response.

"I am deeply angry about this because of the callous attitude of the three teenagers (but) it's a sign of the proliferation of guns on the ground in the USA," Tim Fischer, former deputy prime minister of Australia, said this week. "This is the bitter harvest and legacy of the policies of the NRA..."

So he bragged about supposedly killing 5 white people after Zimmerman was acquitted. I wonder if Al Sharpton feels at all responsible for Lane being murdered?

[Taernath]

I don't think he killed them, he 'knocced' them out... then presumably raped and/or robbed them. Jackson already frowned on the murder, so that aspect's covered.

The whole social media angle is pretty interesting though. I wonder if these kids are legitimately developmentally disabled or really just that stupid to put that shit out there.

[Atlanteax]

I wonder if these kids are legitimately developmentally disabled

See, this is what is 'wrong' with society ... if a kid/person 'goes bad' ... the first reaction is to try to excuse away the behavior ("oh, it is not his fault, he is developmentally disabled") ... whereas in the past, such individuals were more or less summarily dealt with.

[Taernath]

See, this is what is 'wrong' with society ... if a kid/person 'goes bad' ... the first reaction is to try to excuse away the behavior ("oh, it is not his fault, he is developmentally disabled") ... whereas in the past, such individuals were more or less summarily dealt with.

There's a difference between excusing the behavior and recognizing the root cause and dealing with that accordingly. I'm far from a bleeding heart, but some of the treatment of mentally handicapped people in the criminal justice system is positively chilling.

[Atlanteax]

I'm far from a bleeding heart, but some of the treatment of mentally handicapped people in the criminal justice system is positively chilling.

I consider that part of "life is not fair"

When did it become the responsibility of society to provide a hand-out to everyone at a disadvantage?

[Latrinsorm]

See, this is what is 'wrong' with society ... if a kid/person 'goes bad' ... the first reaction is to try to excuse away the behavior ("oh, it is not his fault, he is developmentally disabled") ... whereas in the past, such individuals were more or less summarily dealt with.Which past did you have in mind?

[Atlanteax]

Which past did you have in mind?

Anytime prior to the 20th century.

[Warriorbird]

Because the rule of law that is the center of the American system, we should obviously hate that, right?

[Latrinsorm]

Anytime prior to the 20th century.The Wild West, for instance? Lynch mobs, vigilante justice, etc.? You may deplore how many guilty receive lesser punishment, but how many innocents being terrorized, tortured, and murdered is that worth to you?

[Atlanteax]

The Wild West, for instance? Lynch mobs, vigilante justice, etc.? You may deplore how many guilty receive lesser punishment, but how many innocents being terrorized, tortured, and murdered is that worth to you?

It's a trade-off ... don't be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and you're fine.

In the meantime...

http://media.cagle.com/12/2013/08/22/136369_600.jpg

[Atlanteax]

Looks like these two teenagers 'did it for Trayvon' too:

Arrest made in Spokane beating death of WWII vet
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/23/us/world-war-vet-beating-death/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


Police are looking for two suspects. Witnesses described them as "young African American males of average build," according to a police statement.
The motive? Police don't have one. The teens appeared to have picked him at random, authorities say.

[Gelston]

The Wild West, for instance? Lynch mobs, vigilante justice, etc.? You may deplore how many guilty receive lesser punishment, but how many innocents being terrorized, tortured, and murdered is that worth to you?

The Wild West wasn't as wild as people think. There weren't gun fights and lynch mobs anymore then then there was in the 1900s.

[Latrinsorm]

Although not restricted by geographical area, this data (http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/shipp/lynchingyear.html) calls into question the chronological claim, and this data (http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/shipp/lynchingsstate.html) paints a very bleak picture of the West. (Not as bleak as the South, but that's like saying a whole hell of a lot.) Consider Montana's 84 - there aren't even 84 people in Montana! (Anymore.)

Now, it's technically possible that a very strong 1800s bias in the South could conceal an even distribution or even 1900s bias in the West, and I would be very pleased to see that data.

[Latrinsorm]

It's a trade-off ... don't be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and you're fine.Have you ever witnessed a mob? I have not, but from reports I have heard they do not seem capable of fine discernment. "The wrong place" appears to be "around other humans", and it does not say much for your proposed society if people must live in constant fear of each other.