B of A intern dies from working too hard

[DoctorUnne]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100974434

Lol at the bank's comments but not exactly sure what they're supposed to say. These hours, while not necessary to succeed, are pretty standard. It's not really any different from a blue collar worker who works three jobs. It's not like the guy had to work in banking to make a living, so probably not going to get much sympathy. I'm sure Korean video gamers are laughing.

A 21-year-old intern who worked grueling hours at Bank of America's London office died just a week before his internship was to conclude.


Moritz Erhardt, who studied at the WHU-Otto Beisheim School of Management in Vallendar, Germany, reportedly had worked until 6 a.m. for three days straight and was found dead in his flat. Erhardt, who suffered from epilepsy, collapsed in his shower, according to reports. Erhardt had studied at the University of Michigan's Ross School of Business and left three months ago.

"We are deeply shocked and saddened by the news of Moritz Erhardt's death," BofA said in a statement. "He was popular amongst his peers and was a highly diligent intern at our company with a promising future. Our first thoughts are with his family and we send our condolences to them at this difficult time




John McIvor, the bank's head of international communications, told CNBC.com that he could not confirm the circumstances surrounding Erhardt's death, though he did provide some insight into the life of an intern.

"The whole point about internships is to give students a positive experience and to get to know our firm and us to know them well, so we can work out who would be the best fit to join the company full-time after they graduate," he said.

"I'm not going to comment on what hours people choose to spend in the office voluntarily," he added. "But if you think about it logically, what we're trying to do is something that happens across all the big firms. We're looking to get to know them better."

The Independent reported that it spoke to others familiar with the matter who confirmed how grueling life can be for interns:


One former investment banker confirmed that interns could regularly work 14 hour days.


The banker, who wished to remain anonymous, told The Independent: "Interns can regularly clock up to 100 or even 110 hours a week, but people are fully aware that banking is hard work and the company constantly reminds you to manage upwards in order to not overheat. This is the first time I've heard of something like this happening and banking is a very close culture."

—By CNBC's Jeff Cox. Follow him
@JeffCoxCNBCcom
on Twitter.

[Gelston]

I heard this is common over in Japan. I've heard, but never confirmed, that Life Insurance over there has special clauses for it.

[Back]

FUCK THE BANKS!

[Latrinsorm]

"Erhardt, who suffered from epilepsy"

Hello lawsuit!

When I clicked on this thread I was thinking "Bachelor of Arts" and I was very confused, but it makes more sense now.

[Shaps]

From reading that article, it sounds like the guy didn't take care of himself. He was not forced to work the hours he did, he made the choice to work them. Truly sad that he died, but working 14-18 hour days will not kill a person.

Sad that a smart and dedicated person passed away.

[Gelston]

I guess he won't be getting the permanent position at the company now.

[Suppressed Poet]

Heh - we just got interns this week. I walked into work and thought "is our building hosting a high school prom or am I really that old?"

AND DID YOU KNOW INTERNS GET PAID NOW ***AND*** A GUARANTEED JOB IF THEY PUT IN THE TIME?!? WHAT KIND OF BS IS THAT?? I GOT RIPPED OFF!!!

[Aluvius]

"The banker, who wished to remain anonymous, told The Independent: "Interns can regularly clock up to 100 or even 110 hours a week, but people are fully aware that banking is hard work and the company constantly reminds you to manage upwards in order to not overheat. This is the first time I've heard of something like this happening and banking is a very close culture.""


WTF does manage upwards even mean in this context? Also giving such a soullessly banal statement even with the cover of anonymity ... yeah, fuck the bank(er)s.

[DoctorUnne]

Managing upwards means pushing back when you're asked to do too much and not just taking it up the ass silently. Some guys will work you to the bone if you let them. Part of it is the culture of "I went through it when I was an intern and it's a rite of passage," kind of like hazing. Sometimes they assign too much work without really knowing or caring how impossible the timeline is. Some people look down on analysts who manage upwards because it's a sign of weakness, but you're not going to fail to get the job because you're only willing to work 100 hour weeks instead of 140. And if you're only capable of succeeding if you work 140 hours a week you probably aren't going to fare well long term and should look for other work

[Whirlin]

I heard this is common over in Japan. I've heard, but never confirmed, that Life Insurance over there has special clauses for it.

I worked there for four months... this is in fact common. All of the offices that I worked at had announcements go off at 5 PM saying that it was 5 PM, and people were free to leave.

Of course, completely different culture. They really only use their homes for sleep, not really for living.

[AnticorRifling]

"Erhardt, who suffered from epilepsy"

Hello lawsuit!

When I clicked on this thread I was thinking "Bachelor of Arts" and I was very confused, but it makes more sense now.

If he had the condition, and knew sleep deprivation could exacerbate it why would he take a job with long hours? No one forced him to take the job/internship. That's on him is it not?

Also you should know no one with a Bachelor of Arts is going to die from hard work.

[Sile]

If he had the condition, and knew sleep deprivation could exacerbate it why would he take a job with long hours? No one forced him to take the job/internship. That's on him is it not?

Also you should know no one with a Bachelor of Arts is going to die from hard work.

It is totally on him. But in the same thread of thinking, it's the same way if you were drinking at a work party drove home and got in an accident, your employer is liable.

[AnticorRifling]

Except it's nothing like that...

[Stanley Burrell]

If I had preexisting epilepsy like this dude, I'd have likely been dead in one of my internships. I'm lucky that (at the time) my old superior was a Marine.

[cwolff]

Did it say that he died because he's epileptic?

[Tgo01]

Heck I think I took 10 years off my life just reading that he worked 100+ hours a week.

[Suppressed Poet]

I'm actually a bit surprised by this.

I work for another large FI. We just got new interns this week. Ours are limited to 32 hours a week (Fridays off) and they are paid hourly. If they successfully complete the 1 year internship they are guaranteed a very nice entry level salaried relationship management position. It's a pretty good program in my eyes.

Nobody pushes these interns to work long hours. They mainly shadow (that is pull up a chair and sit behind someone) within various departments in opps and sales to learn what they do. Their future position requires them to have a good understanding of functions of many key departments, and are basically there to learn first hand our industry. In fact, being hourly they HAVE to go home on time else they could get fired. Our bank kicked off a big campaign to publicly hire more veterans and college kids as a good pr move + helping address the job problem in the US.

This may be different in London, or because they are interning for some other type of position, but it's still hard for me to believe that any hazing or grueling hours still exist. My experience with bank people is that they aim for a good work/life balance, even at senior levels. Bankers don't work grueling hours. Think about it...branches are closed Sunday and limited hours on Saturday. Our office is closed on the weekends. Salaried folks can go by their own choice - but that is rarely done and never expected (I know because I often go in a couple hours Saturday or Sunday and am labeled a workaholic). I can count on 1 hand the number of times they forced any group to work extra hours in my 6 years at this company. The point of all this - don't assume bankers or bank people work their ass off because I know first hand that isn't true at all. Nor do most interns.

Where I am if an intern shows up on time, has a modest amount of intelligence (which they should have to get the internship), and doesn't fall asleep during work hours (by far the #1 reason new hires / interns get terminated) - they will complete the internship and get the job.

[Suppressed Poet]

Heck I think I took 10 years off my life just reading that he worked 100+ hours a week.

Not far from the truth.

Modern research has taught us that longer hours does not equal increased production. At 100+ hours, whatever you are doing isn't very efficient. Project managers have it the worst with fierce deadlines, but most jobs are about efficiency and more hours won't help you. It's more about what % can you get to of unlimited things to do in an 8 hour a day window.

[Suppressed Poet]

And for what it's worth, my big bad bank gives me for my max tenure (grandfathered in pre 2008 fiasco and scorn to big banks) 5 weeks vacation (3 weeks vacation / 2 weeks personal) and 2 weeks sick time a year. That is WAY more than I could ever possibly use with being any good at my job, but point being that bank people like their away from the office time.

I think new folks start with 2 weeks vacation total and 1 week sick, which isn't that bad considering all the bank holidays you get in addition.

[Bobmuhthol]

Leave it to SP to not have any fucking concept of investment banking.

I was told to not expect a 40 hour/week job at a very infamous hedge fund. It would be more like 65. And they reassured me that I wouldn't have to work banking hours, which are generally 80+.

[Suppressed Poet]

Hey Bob -

Didn't you say you had to do 150 hours a week of 100% pure dick sucking to get that nice job? Let's get your opinion on this poor intern. Guess he didn't quite have the stomach to hold all that in like you, huh?

[Bobmuhthol]

I make $50/hr and set my own hours. Nice try bro.

[Delias]

I make $50/hr and set my own hours. Nice try bro.

You'd think he would know that since it gets mentioned like every other day.

[diethx]

Leave it to SP to not have any fucking concept of investment banking.

Thank you.

[Suppressed Poet]

You'd think he would know that since it gets mentioned like every other day.

Haven't been paying attention really. Was doing pretty good at staying out of the social forum until a few of you missed me so much that you just had to bring it into a Gemstone related post. But hey - I like to shoot the shit just as much as the next man.

[cwolff]

Investment banking. What a joke. We'd all be better off if they brought back Glass-Steagall.

[Sile]

Investment banking is just another form of legalized gambling.

Personally I'm military so my hourly weeks can range from as low as 20-30 hrs a week up to as high as 120 hrs a week if a lot is going on, I've done the sleep deprivation training where you literally don't stop for 3-4 days, after the first 2 days or so your body just goes into auto pilot. Working long hours sucks in any job, but I don't think it will kill any healthy individual.

This fellah had medical issues though which compounded the fact. The bank may not have been aware of this and just viewed the intern as someone fighting or trying to prove a point.

[Latrinsorm]

No one forced him to take the job/internship.Source?
Also you should know no one with a Bachelor of Arts is going to die from hard work.Hence why I was confused, B-HOLE.
They mainly shadow (that is pull up a chair and sit behind someone) within various departments in opps and sales to learn what they do. Their future position requires them to have a good understanding of functions of many key departments, and are basically there to learn first hand our industry. In fact, being hourly they HAVE to go home on time else they could get fired.Man, stalking is complicated these days.

[DoctorUnne]

Yeah investment banking isn't the same as retail banking. 100 hour weeks are quite common and not just among interns. Full time employees work those hours or close to it for several years until it gradually gets better. Other finance jobs can be almost as bad at times but banking is notorious. For those interested in reading more about the culture check out www.leveragedsellout.com. It's exaggerated but a lot of it is accurate.

As for banking being gambling or a joke, not sure what you guys mean by that. It has a bad rep in a lot of circles but the services, helping companies access the capital markets and advising on corporate transactions, are pretty central to our economy.

[Bobmuhthol]

Sure, but the banks are shitty at what they're supposed to do and they're good at profiting at everyone else's expense. They're also good at being trolled a la Noodle Co or whatever that IPO was. Same with facebook.

[AnticorRifling]

Source? He lives in a country where he can pick his profession...

[Gelston]

He lives in a country where he can pick his profession...

Obviously he was drafted by the SSA.

[Ker_Thwap]

I worked a full summer at 72+ hours a week as an assistant deli manager, on my feet all day. Was worth it because everything over 40 was overtime. Of course I was 19 or 20 at the time, good times.

Much later, when I became a manager at the IRS, I worked a few years at 60+ hours. That was much less fun in my 30s while on salary.