For all you musicians

[Tsa`ah]

My oldest girl has been pestering me for the better part of this year for a guitar and lessons. Months ago on some Sunday afternoon this Esteban infomercial airs on the local Fox station and immediately my girl wants it. She wants 2. One for her and one for me.

This seemed like a good idea. We could both learn together thus giving the both of us something in common for years to come. That, and I secretly wanted to be Zack Wild when I was in jr high.

In normal parental fashion I kept stalling with "when we have time sweetie" "next week honey". Well this week I got cornered into a promise. So like any good consumer I searched for feedback on this particular setup and what I found wasn't good. The guitar was pretty much over priced crap. I think the most frequent comment was that one could do better with a broom stick, a card board box and 6 rubber bands ... but the instruction was good.

After the reviews, I had a notion to post for suggestions, but as usual I was in a rush so I found the Esteban dvd instructionals on e-bay and dropped 25 bucks on the set .... came today ... and today being completely ignorant of music that doesn't come in cd form I went guitar shopping with two little girls. At first I only planned on buying two acoustics, the youngest could not be left out though. So from 9am up until 35 minutes ago we went to 15 different music shops. Everyone had their opinions on what to start out with and tried to upsell the most expensive guitars with discounted lessons. It didn't look to promising. After the fifth shop I started asking the sales people to demo what they were trying to sell, not a fucking one knew how to play, let alone tune. As luck would have it my last stop was probably the most expensive shop in town. CV Lloyd's. I walk in 20 minutes before closing and there were probably 10 other customers. While I tried to keep two sets of curious hands in check and wait for a sales person my wallet was sweating just looking at the prices.

To make this as brief as possible ... Within 5 minutes of coming into the store, 10 minutes explaining what I was looking for and what I was willing to spend, the salesman walked me and my two monkey girls to a sound room (probably for the safety of the 5,000 dollar acoustics my girls were fascinated with and to escape the 4 people determined to play "stairway" on every guitar they tested), left us there and returned with another salesman/instructor and about 6 different acoustics. After a few demos and more questions they offered me two choices. The first was a Gibson beginner pack for 350 bones, the other an Ibanez for 239. Both, to me sounded good, looked and felt solid, came with a soft case, beginners book and dvd, tuner, picks, and an extra string set.

Now I'm left handed and wanted a left handed guitar, but the only thing they had was an intermediate’s left hander for 475 that they would not sell me.

Not only was I shocked that they would not sell me a guitar I wasn't ready for, but I was additionally shocked that they suggested a local pawn shop for beginner guitars for my two monkeys. Indiana was the brand and they cost 95 each. They, as they explained, would be more than happy to sell me three beginner sets, but wanted the return business. So I settled on the blue Ibanez and two Indian scouts.
I could have saved about 20 bucks and went across town for the same set, but that shop would have sold me stuff I wasn't ready for and more to boot, and they couldn't play what they were selling.

So did I get reamed, or was this a decent price for an Ibanez and two off brand beginner guitars? What would you strummers have suggested and what should I look into buying down the road?

[Soulpieced]

Ibanez has high quality on their low priced guitars and basses. You really shouldn't be needing a "real" guitar until someone starts getting really good.

[StrayRogue]

Zak Wylde is god.

[Blazing247]

Being that you are beginners all around, you really won't notice a big difference in sound quality between any two guitars. Ibanez is a fine choice. Another alternative would've been the Fender Squire.

When I started playing, I opted against buying a beginners guitar. I played a good 6 hours a day for the first year I picked it up, and I can say with certainty that after two months I was no longer a beginner and would've been out shopping for my Strat with 200 less bucks in my pocket.

As for instruction, I learned the worst way possible. I got some sheet music/tab, sat down, and taught myself every chord. In the end, it worked, because I don't adhere to structured learning techniques very well. Let me know how their progress goes. Start them off with some Beatles, it's simple to play and very fun.

[StrayRogue]

Learning the chords one by one is how I'm learning as well. While the progress can be a bit frustrating, as can it be difficult without having someone with experience to show you exactly what to do, its alot cheaper. Plus theres lots of decent websites out there. Heres a few that I've used before:

http://www.acousticguitar.com/

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
We could both learn together I hope that works out better for you than it did for me and my dad.

Sounds like good prices to me, be cool and teach guitar to yourself and kids. I would go with Avril Lavigne vs. the Beatles, seeing as how her music is a lot easier to play (she's got a ton of acoustic versions of her songs) and more fun to play along to. Finally, I'd recommend against trying to restring an acoustic yourself unless you're positive you know what you're doing.

[Blazing247]

<Sounds like good prices to me, be cool and teach guitar to yourself and kids. I would go with Avril Lavigne vs. the Beatles, seeing as how her music is a lot easier to play >

Pish posh. Avril = teh sux0r, Beatles = good music. If you love your daughters, don't let them listen to teenie bopper music.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Blazing247
Pish posh.Saying "pish posh" invalidates everything you will ever say. Regardless, Avril still = awesome. Her third album is going to be transcendent, and then you'll recognize.

[PassinBy]

Not to sound like a professional or anything but:

You didnt say how old your oldest is, since

Acoustic is a bloody pain to learn on. Electric is much easier, especially for a younger person.

No idea on the prices either, Ive been using the same Les Paul for years.

Good luck and all

[Jazuela]

It sounds like you got awesome service from the place you ended up in, and sometimes that is worth more than the price of the instrument.

Ibanez makes a fine accoustic guitar, the other brand is probably a relatively cheap Martin or Yamaha knock-off so 90-100 bucks for those are fine.

Electric guitar can be easier, but it can be harder as well. I think you did your kids (and yourself) a service by going accoustic to start with. Once you all get good at that, switching to electric (if you choose to go that route) will be a cinch.

My first guitar was a concert-sized classical, hand-made in Mexico, and was a gift from my grandmother for my birthday. I was taught classical music, and my advice would be to learn that if you ore your kids are serious about the guitar. Learning scales, the "circle of fifths," how to maneuver the fretboard, fingerpicking - a solid classical instruction base will get you much further than learning chords from a book.

[Tsa`ah]

My oldest girl is 8 and my youngest will be 6 in January. Day 1 wasn't bad. We watched the DVDs before practice and learned the anatomy of the guitar, practiced a bit with tuning and from there just learned individual notes. The youngest monkey paid attention for the first hour. Their little hands have trouble making some of the bridges between notes, but we covered 6 notes on 2 strings and a short melody.

I think it's been fun so far, I just wish our promised instructor was back from Iraq and Halliburton already.

As for Beatles vs Avril, my oldest girl has broad taste. She has van Gogh, da Vinci, Monet, Avril L, Michelle Branch, and Einstein plastered all over he walls. Her choice in music is pretty broad as well. Thankfully she has grown out of her taste for Spears and boy band music, until the next group comes along anyway.

I think my oldest is in it for the long haul and my youngest didn't want to be left out, we'll see. They were both ecstatic over choosing their own guitars. My Ibanez is a deep deep blue, they had a choice between natural, sunburst, rosette, black, blue, red, and deep deep burgundy finish. They chose natural and sunburst.

We actually had good service at the pawn shop as well. I paid 95 each for the guitars, I paid 25 for the hard cases. The guy threw in an extra hard case for the Ibanez, literally a handful of picks, 3 sets of strings and a promise of repairs that fall outside of the warranty for the first 5 years. He said he wouldn't repair damage due to impacts hard rock style, but he would repair normal wear and tear.

So I was very very pleased with the service at both shops. And day one has been good. Like I said, the biggest problem the girls have are making some of the bridges between frets and first fret notes. There's just a bit too much tension on that first fret to get a good note from little fingers. Everything comes down to time, patience and practice.

Myself, I just flipped the Ibanez over and go through the instruction slowly so I can get the upside down fingering. I may break down in a few months and go shell out cash for the lefty .... with pickups.

So what's everyone's general opinion of a good intermediate guitar for down the road .... like a year from now or better?

Thanks for all the input and thanks for that link Stay, very helpful.

[AnticorRifling]

I want to learn to play just so I can be all like

We are WILD STALLIONS!!

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
I want to learn to play just so I can be all like

We are WILD STALLIONS!! Apparently you don't remember the end of that movie. Learning to play is kind of unnecessary.

[Jazuela]

I'm left handed but was taught to play "right-handed." But, to my thinking, right-handed IS left handed. Here's why:

Most of the hard work is done on the fretboard, not over the soundhole. And that means - your left hand is doing all the hard work. So as far as I'm concerned, all those right-handed guitar players are the ones who play backward!

As for an "intermediate" guitar: If you're talking strictly about price, go for a low-end Washburn (if you can find one). The strings are typically lower to the fretboard than the Martin and tend to have a better resonance than the lower-end Martins have. You'll pay more for the Washburn - even the lower-end models, but it's worth it in my opinion.

If you'd rather dish out the extra 200 bucks - skip the intermediate and go directly to the Alvarez Professional series.

The PF90S is a folk-style - having a pickguard and a curvier body than the typical dreadnaught. If you want to go full-body accoustic size, the PD80S is gorgeous. The one I have they no longer make, but is a full-bodied dreadnaught accoustic, part of what they now call their Regent series (they didn't have that many fancy "categories" as they do now back then). Regent is currently their "standard basic" (less expensive) category.

But think of it this way: if you invest, rather than buy, your investment will pay for itself many times over. I bought my Alvarez from a musical pawnshop in 1980, for $200 including a hard-shell case. It blue-books now for approximately $1500.

[Edited on 8-29-2004 by Jazuela]

[Amaron]

I am a music teacher in a public school. I am married to a professional guitarist ( he also plays the chapman stick) and is a keyboardist.

You got a decent deal..

In a school setting I buy Oscar Schmidt guitars for my kids... they are durable ( they need to be) and sound good. A decent starter guitar. but you also got good guitars.

All my students start on right hand guitars as do my husbands private students.

we think of it this way....

When I teach the trumpet or flute or clarinet the kids cannot switch hands... they need to be ambidextrous for the most part....

Guitar is the same way. You need both hands. Does it really matter which hand does what?

Not really.... I would try right hand for a bit before swapping about.


Neat to see a parent doing this. Good luck!!

J

[StrayRogue]

Nuther good site:

http://www.mxtabs.net

[Kadumi]

from what I read, you did a good job by getting the ones you did. you can't really go wrong with buying an inexpensive guitar for beginners, especially that young. keep in mind though that if they do continue playing, they will outgrow the guitars and will need new ones.

I've seen some good things with Ibanez's lower priced acoustic guitars. I have one and while it doesn't sound as good as a taylor, it suits my purposes fine. just stay away from the cheaper ibanez electrics. they are total crap. the cheapest ibanez electric worth buying is the bottom line joe satriani signature series.

as for music, I use www.harmony-central.com and www.tabrobot.com

if you're looking to purchase music books, try www.sunhawk.com

some of the beatles stuff might be a bit complicated to start them off with. I'd suggest credence clearwater revival. all their stuff is pretty straightforward in terms of chords and time signatures.

also, check into the instructional book called 'guitar scale guru' by karl aranjo. its wonderful for learning music theory.

[HarmNone]

Kadumi! Finally! I was so hoping you'd respond to this! :worship:

HarmNone

[Snapp]

He is John Denver after all.

[Kadumi]

Originally posted by Snapp
He is John Denver after all.

some say it is so


http://www.wfma.net/jd9.jpg

[Ylena]

Are either of your girls in Scouts? When I was a kid, I loved learning how to play the songs we sang at camp on my flute.

When I was learning guitar and bass as an adult, I played along with a lot of "three chord wonder" songs. Smoke On the Water, Cat Scratch Fever, 867-5309, any George Thorogood, pretty much any ZZ Top, some Eagles, Muddy Waters, Ramones, Romantics...

I wouldn't even be thinking about what to buy next just yet. You might find out six months from now that all of you hate doing this. Make it as fun as you possibly can, and try to spend a little time every day working on it. Ten or fifteen minutes a day is a hell of a lot more productive practice than one 2 hour session a week.

[StrayRogue]

Smoke on the Waterrrrrr

[AnticorRifling]

Fire in the sky.