RTFC Ticketing Fiasco Story - My Side

[Tgo01]

I'm also pretty fed up with people tossing around the word "hacked". The servers were overloaded by a few scripts that were poorly written and used by individuals who thought "MOAR SPEED=MOAR TICKETZ". That's not hacking anymore than lighting a bottle rocket on the fourth is a terrorist attack.

Sorry Mr. Nitpicky.


It's more important that I not go into details than it is "people take me seriously".

Why are you here then? Why is it important to not go into details?

[AuctionBot2000]

So if you take a step back a moment and try to remember the ticketing pages (I didn't keep screenshots but some people may have): My characters/accounts were upper middle of the pack to mid-pack.

Is it your experience with using bots that they fail to beat 8-15 humans consistently?
Or do you contend that the people ahead of me in the queue are also botters that did not get caught?
Or does my bot amazingly behave like a human?

Ignore the back and forth and go on what could be tracked.

1. My accounts did not score top slot or right next to it each time. There was variance. (I think my bro hit #1 or 2 once)
2. The ticket re-release I only scored 1 ticket. My brother was busy. Did my bot fail? Is the bot then just a piece of shit that doesn't actually guarantee anything?
3. As evidenced by my purchasing habits: I had time, motive, opportunity, resources to buy however much I wanted. I only did 2 slots at once because I only have my brother and myself. Why pay an upcharge for premium at all? Why not bot out all 25 tickets in a single basic batch and lock it up for cheaper?

Did I somehow use sub-par bots to out-buy all of the faster, more efficient bots?



Did you create new accounts to try to circumvent the rules about who can purchase tickets?

[Bobmuhthol]

So if you take a step back a moment and try to remember the ticketing pages (I didn't keep screenshots but some people may have): My characters/accounts were upper middle of the pack to mid-pack.

Is it your experience with using bots that they fail to beat 8-15 humans consistently?
Or do you contend that the people ahead of me in the queue are also botters that did not get caught?
Or does my bot amazingly behave like a human?

Ignore the back and forth and go on what could be tracked.

1. My accounts did not score top slot or right next to it each time. There was variance. (I think my bro hit #1 or 2 once)
2. The ticket re-release I only scored 1 ticket. My brother was busy. Did my bot fail? Is the bot then just a piece of shit that doesn't actually guarantee anything?
3. As evidenced by my purchasing habits: I had time, motive, opportunity, resources to buy however much I wanted. I only did 2 slots at once because I only have my brother and myself. Why pay an upcharge for premium at all? Why not bot out all 25 tickets in a single basic batch and lock it up for cheaper?

Did I somehow use sub-par bots to out-buy all of the faster, more efficient bots?Obviously you intentionally designed all of those intricacies in order to seem innocent later on. Slit-eye is far too smart for your bullshit.

[Latrinsorm]

No, translation: Self interest is human nature, and self interest is ultimately moral. So don't hate someone who asks in their self interest and takes advantage of an opportunity presented to them in a poorly designed system. Don't fault water for flowing downhill.

Though, 16 tickets is pretty crazy. I mean, people think I got a lot of tickets, but truthfully I don't have that many accounts, lots of people apparently got more tickets than I did, and Kitsun quite frankly lapped me multiple times. But still, had they taken my advice and the advice of most other people and done 1 batch of 100 tickets with a 10 minute premium head start, we'd have a much more equitable system. In a way I'm reminded of, well, big government. People keep trying to please everyone, make things "fair" or "equitable" trying to engineer equality of outcome while maintaining a guise of equality of opportunity, but with each added bit of complexity all you do is make it things more difficult for everyone except an elite few who know how to navigate the system to their benefit, and the complexity also of course makes corruption easier to hide. I find it an excellent analogy. Wyrom paved a road to hell with his good intention to make tickets available across time zones and subscription levels, and in trying to spread things around simply increased the complexity to the point where if you were not an elite you had a hard time benefiting.How astonishing: I interpret their ticket sale method as trying to maximize demand and therefore profit, which led to negative consequences. How astonishing, that in a bad situation you would see big government that you are already critical of and I would see unregulated capitalism that I am already critical of. How astonishing.
They knew people would buy your tickets when they resold them and they kept their Jewish pride by taking care of anyone who fucks with their cash flow.I... did this thread suddenly turn racist? This kind of came out of nowhere.
Don't you have any friends, or any hobbies, or anything to do besides sit here and troll the message board all day every day?I like to think of myself as diethx's friend, and I got a chuckle out of the post you responded to.
Is it your experience with using bots that they fail to beat 8-15 humans consistently?Aha, you've made a classic blunder. You weren't using a bot, you were using a spider application, so named because it uses 8 threads at once, hence "multi-threaded". You didn't think another poster would have 90 years of IT experience, and you thought you could get into a land war in Asia. :nono:

[Jhynnifer]

Did you create new accounts to try to circumvent the rules about who can purchase tickets?

He opened up new accounts to buy more tickets. That's not circumventing the rules, that's opening more accounts to buy more tickets. An example of circumventing the rules were those who tried to transfer their mains to new accounts in order to attend again.

[Slit-eye]

Is it your experience with using bots that they fail to beat 8-15 humans consistently?
8-15 requests entered the webserver queue before yours. They could be human/bot/mixture. Many of those going after tickets knew the webserver and gameserver were synced for time, so you could begin by the second by using the "time" command in game.

Or do you contend that the people ahead of me in the queue are also botters that did not get caught?
They're just people in the webserver queue.

Or does my bot amazingly behave like a human?
It's not amazing, some of them are programmed to like the one posted earlier in this thread.

2. The ticket re-release I only scored 1 ticket. My brother was busy. Did my bot fail? Is the bot then just a piece of shit that doesn't actually guarantee anything?
Poorly written bots can be hampered by awaiting responses, poor garbage collection, hiccups on the host machine, or being overthrottled. Two of which coincidentally can also cause DOS attacks.

3. As evidenced by my purchasing habits: I had time, motive, opportunity, resources to buy however much I wanted. I only did 2 slots at once because I only have my brother and myself. Why pay an upcharge for premium at all? Why not bot out all 25 tickets in a single basic batch and lock it up for cheaper?
This one doesn't need answered. When you're doing something wrong, most people only do it to the point where they're pretty sure they can get away with it.

Did I somehow use sub-par bots to out-buy all of the faster, more efficient bots?
If you did use a script, this question is the one that would prove you didn't know what you were doing. Faster causes problems and ends up less efficient because of increasing bottlenecks. Also, this question doesn't need asked - most everyone knows that there were more than one set of bots at work during these batches. In fact, I already pointed out one spider, one bot, and two scripts that were being used. Someone else said they were going to post theirs - I forget who it was now though.

[Donquix]

I'm sure neither side's story, simu or kiitsun, is 100% correct. The truth is always in the middle. I say this as someone who has always liked kitsun, and someone who currently refuses to sub because I think Simu are incompetent and don't deserve my money until they make some serious changes in how they do business.

Simu's ticket distribution method, the ephemeral policies they enacted around it, the "safeguards" they put in place around those policies, and their technical ability to do an RCA after the fact are all hilariously amateurish. (Surprising no one.)

All they needed for those systems to be sufficient was for the players to not be selfish fucktards about it. And that's exactly what most of us did. (Surprising no one.)

It's just hilarious because so many people complained about the Wavedancer with its tiered ticketing system, and yet for every "equal opportunity" event, everyone games the system (including paying just as much if not more for multiple tickets) to essentially make the same thing happen.

It's a game. Stop treating it like an entitlement. Stop treating it like an investment. Stop treating it like a lifestyle. Do that, and their policies pretty much work. SHOCKING.

All that being said, it will never happen. They need to stop fighting the fact that their playerbase is mostly made up of older (by vidya game standards) people with orders of magnitude more disposable income than the average MMO player and 20+ years invested in this making it a priority. Put in more specifically enumerated rules. Create actual policies and systems to enforce those (it's not that fucking hard to figure out). For any "major" services, offer equal amounts of raffle/spinner type and services and auction services. Bring back tiered ticketing once you can hard enforce one per person, not per account. They'll make more money, piss off less people, drain more silvers.

But that requires work and some sliver of competence from management so, that will also never happen.

tl;dr - Simu had good intentions but were stupid. Kitsun is good but did something stupid. The World keeps on spinning.

[Gelston]

I'm sure neither side's story, simu or kiitsun, is 100% correct. The truth is always in the middle.

Are you trying to say that Kitsun's brother is a Robot?

[AuctionBot2000]

He opened up new accounts to buy more tickets. That's not circumventing the rules, that's opening more accounts to buy more tickets. An example of circumventing the rules were those who tried to transfer their mains to new accounts in order to attend again.

New (trial) accounts are not eligible to buy tickets. So if he opened new accounts so he could buy more tickets that would be violating the rules.

[diethx]

Honestly, it wasn't botting.

Kitsun employed his connections in the Chinese mafia, who lined up a veritable sweatshop for the sole purpose of getting him tickets.

[AuctionBot2000]

In the end, shouldn't more people get a chance to attend this orgy of excess?

You can't have an orgy if it's all one guy.

[Donquix]

Are you trying to say that Kitsun's brother is a Robot?

Do you have proof to the contrary?

http://i.imgur.com/RjrWIoe.jpg

[AuctionBot2000]

Just be thankful Solomon isn't a man of his word, he threatened a one way ticket to the void, which you escaped.

Imagine your mega-bot 7 man team being deleted.

[Tgo01]

Do you have proof to the contrary?

http://i.imgur.com/RjrWIoe.jpg

You're doing it wrong!

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=6859750

[crb]

How astonishing: I interpret their ticket sale method as trying to maximize demand and therefore profit, which led to negative consequences. How astonishing, that in a bad situation you would see big government that you are already critical of and I would see unregulated capitalism that I am already critical of.

Not really astonishing. A. I'm smarter than you, and B. you're wrong. How does dividing a batch of 100 tickets that will sell out into 4 batches of 25 increase profits? It doesn't. You think the ticket distribution method is the cause behind the tickets selling out, and not the otherwise intrinsic supply and demand? See A & B above. If Simutronics wanted to maximize their profits they'd go about doing this much much differently, you don't get this, probably because A & B. Players did not need to be tricked to be whipped up into a frenzy to ensure a sellout of all three runs by piecemeal distributions. I mean seriously, A, and B. That is one of the stupidest things you've ever posted on the forums. You were probably merely trying to be contrary and so glossed over the big buckets of logic fails your position created. Sorry, but creating a more complex micromanaged system under the guise of fairness that relies on the assumptions that humans don't respond to incentives and will not act in their own self interest doesn't work. Didn't work for communism, doesn't work for large welfare states, didn't work for RTCF ticket distributions.

Thanks for the laugh though.

[Latrinsorm]

Not really astonishing. A. I'm smarter than you, and B. you're wrong.I know I've said this before, but never change crb.
How does dividing a batch of 100 tickets that will sell out into 4 batches of 25 increase profits? It doesn't.If you don't want to consider the theoretical (or perhaps I should say basic economics) concept of an artificial scarcity, consider the empirical data of many people saying they weren't able to get a ticket in a 25 ticket batch, who therefore were willing to pay a premium for the ability to have one. You yourself made millions of silvers performing this service, didn't you? How many silvers did you make buying tickets for others out of past larger batches?

[Back]

Not really astonishing. A. I'm smarter than you, and B. you're wrong. How does dividing a batch of 100 tickets that will sell out into 4 batches of 25 increase profits? It doesn't. You think the ticket distribution method is the cause behind the tickets selling out, and not the otherwise intrinsic supply and demand? See A & B above. If Simutronics wanted to maximize their profits they'd go about doing this much much differently, you don't get this, probably because A & B. Players did not need to be tricked to be whipped up into a frenzy to ensure a sellout of all three runs by piecemeal distributions. I mean seriously, A, and B. That is one of the stupidest things you've ever posted on the forums. You were probably merely trying to be contrary and so glossed over the big buckets of logic fails your position created. Sorry, but creating a more complex micromanaged system under the guise of fairness that relies on the assumptions that humans don't respond to incentives and will not act in their own self interest doesn't work. Didn't work for communism, doesn't work for large welfare states, didn't work for RTCF ticket distributions.

Thanks for the laugh though.

I disagree with A and B.

What this has shown is that even regulated systems get gamed and the ugliness of greed, jealousy, dishonesty, and selfishness.

[Warriorbird]

Why are you here then? Why is it important to not go into details?

He doesn't want to lose the chance to make prison wages for Simutronics.

EDIT:

Or apparently cease to be able to support his "dangerous weed addiction."

[Kembal]

I can't add much to this, but I can verify that Kitsun's method given in the IM chat log was how my ticket for the second run was acquired. A friend had to do it for me since I had failed to acquire a ticket in the first two batches. I was going overseas the next day, and I would not have time to log in to do a purchase in the third or fourth batch. My friend talked to Kitsun about it and found out what was the best method for them to do it, as is visible from the log. (Said friend did not buy a ticket themselves for RtCF, so no one can make the complaint that my friend blocked someone either.)

If Simu is banning people for botting, and Slit-eye is correct that there were four automated programs, then I can confidently say that they've caught 0 of the 4 in use. I have to believe that they banned Kitsun for having too many tickets instead. (again, if Slit-eye is correct about the four automated programs, then there should be at least 3 more people banned even if you don't believe Kitsun, and that most certainly is not the case.)

[Jhynnifer]

New (trial) accounts are not eligible to buy tickets. So if he opened new accounts so he could buy more tickets that would be violating the rules.


But if the accounts were paid for they're no longer considered to be trial accounts, they're active accounts. Its gray area at best.

Simu failed to put checks and balances on a system they gave a half-assed attempt to control. While they can pin anything they want on him and get away with it, you can't. Especially you.

[crb]

I know I've said this before, but never change crb.If you don't want to consider the theoretical (or perhaps I should say basic economics) concept of an artificial scarcity, consider the empirical data of many people saying they weren't able to get a ticket in a 25 ticket batch, who therefore were willing to pay a premium for the ability to have one. You yourself made millions of silvers performing this service, didn't you? How many silvers did you make buying tickets for others out of past larger batches?

Its like looking at a monkey trying to figure out how to use scissors. Let me count your fails.

1. Artificial scarcity is setting the overall ticket number at 100. Once you've done that, you do not create any additional scarcity by changing release method unless you change the number of overall tickets. Duh.

2. I was able profit off of this because I recognized I had a marketable skill people would pay for. I am not Simutronics. Simutronics gained no additional revenue by doing tickets in batches instead of the alternative. In fact, you could objectively say they lost revenue due to the time cost of having an employee monitor and release four batches instead of one. Its pennies, but its there.

If Simu had done something like raise prices for run 3, then maybe you'd have a bit of a leg to stand on. That did not happen however.

[Methais]

not to mention the hundreds of "Backspace refresh" crowd who thought they actually had a shot but kept coming back with server 500 errors

That's their fault for using Firefox instead of Chrome.

[tyrant-201]

That's their fault for using Firefox instead of Chrome.

Believe I got it with Chrome at one point, as well.

[Jarvan]

He opened up new accounts to buy more tickets. That's not circumventing the rules, that's opening more accounts to buy more tickets. An example of circumventing the rules were those who tried to transfer their mains to new accounts in order to attend again.


But if the accounts were paid for they're no longer considered to be trial accounts, they're active accounts. Its gray area at best.

Simu failed to put checks and balances on a system they gave a half-assed attempt to control. While they can pin anything they want on him and get away with it, you can't. Especially you.


Actually, it is the same thing really. But lets not nitpick.

Remember the reason given for not being able to transfer a char to an existing account to try again? Circumventing the 1 ticket 1 account rule. But if I have 2 accounts, and take both, I didn't violate that rule. Taking 1 char to both runs on different accounts doesn't violate that rule either really. The only need to take the same char to both runs is to try for an attuned item. otherwise there is no need.

Was Kitsun taking the 7+ new accounts to get items for guys on those accounts? No he wasn't. Which amounts to the same thing as what I had hoped to be able to do. Get items for one char. He was going with 8 people to feed his needs for his mains. Which in a sense is what alot of people did/do. Look at CRB. I believe he got work on his armor with more then one of his majors. Difference is, CRB didn't open up (up to)10 new accounts to try to do it.

Also, remember when we told Wyrom someone would do this, open up new accounts just to get tickets, And they said don't worry. Trial accounts can't go. Yes, Trials can't. And who in their right mind would pay 40$ for JUST the chance to get a ticket. Only reason to do it is if you are absolutely sure you will get a ticket. Suffice it to say, they can just point at the "disruptive behavior" and do what they want. Because if you don't think doing what kit did is disruptive behavior, you need your head checked.

This time he only got 8 tickets to one run, whats to say that if there was a 4th run he wouldn't have tried to get 16, by either the program, or enlisting more family? or 32, or all of them? Also, remember then intent of the distribution method. It was started that they did it to give more "people" a chance. Not more chances to Kitsun.

Like I said, if a Bot wasn't used, what they did was fine. If a Bot was used, Kitsun should be banned from the game perm. Likely, the fact that it WAS Kitsun is the only reason he wasn't perm banned.

[Latrinsorm]

Its like looking at a monkey trying to figure out how to use scissors. Let me count your fails.

1. Artificial scarcity is setting the overall ticket number at 100. Once you've done that, you do not create any additional scarcity by changing release method unless you change the number of overall tickets. Duh.

2. I was able profit off of this because I recognized I had a marketable skill people would pay for.If there was no additional scarcity (that is, lack of available supply), why would people want to pay you anything?
I am not Simutronics.SOURCE???
Simutronics gained no additional revenue by doing tickets in batches instead of the alternative. In fact, you could objectively say they lost revenue due to the time cost of having an employee monitor and release four batches instead of one. Its pennies, but its there.

If Simu had done something like raise prices for run 3, then maybe you'd have a bit of a leg to stand on. That did not happen however.The comparison would be the prices Simu charged with this method vs. the prices Simu would have charged selling tickets all at once. Of course, that comparison cannot be made empirically, because Simu only sold tickets for RtCF this way and not any other way.

I really wish you would let yourself see the humor in the way each of us sees this event. Or, I suppose, I really wish you were capable of letting yourself seeing that humor.

[tyrant-201]

I would think the way that the tickets were released created scarcity in and of itself. I think you're saying the same thing, Latri, that really there is no "scarcity" if they're sold all at once. When you release 25 at a time, it creates a much higher want/demand.

[Jarvan]

I would think the way that the tickets were released created scarcity in and of itself. I think you're saying the same thing, Latri, that really there is no "scarcity" if they're sold all at once. When you release 25 at a time, it creates a much higher want/demand.

The fact that there was 300 tickets, and 1000 players is what created the scarcity. How they were sold didn't change scarcity, it just made it harder to acquire one.

If Super Bowl tickets went on sale 100 at a time over the course of a week, there wouldn't be a change in demand for them. There would just be much more fighting for the same tickets, because each time the same people would be able to retry for more tickets.

[Tgo01]

After reading just about every post in this thread I now have to say that even if Kitsun did what Simu accuses of him doing I really don't think he did anything wrong. Even Slit-eye (who has been the most vocal about defending Simu and saying Kitsun was in the wrong) says that what Kitsun is accused of does not amount to hacking.

So where does that leave us? He used a program that is apparently legal to get an advantage over others who were after the same thing he was.

"But he's greedy! It's not fair!" That is a good point. However this is honestly Simu's fault and Simu's fault alone. If Simu wanted to be "fair" they could have done so many other things. Even after the first run and they saw maybe only 30 unique people got tickets they could have changed things for the second run. After the second run was just as big of a disaster as the first run they could have changed things for the third run. They did not. They created this cut throat atmosphere and then sit back and act all shocked that people were engaging in said cut throat activities.

Kitsun doesn't deny the number of tickets he received so call him greedy if that's what you feel he is, but don't jump to Simu's defense in this case simply because you think Kitsun is greedy.

[zzentar]

The fact that there was 300 tickets, and 1000 players is what created the scarcity. How they were sold didn't change scarcity, it just made it harder to acquire one.

If Super Bowl tickets went on sale 100 at a time over the course of a week, there wouldn't be a change in demand for them. There would just be much more fighting for the same tickets, because each time the same people would be able to retry for more tickets.

This ^^^^

People with faster fingers, spider robot buyers, dozens of slaves chained to computers had the real advantage doing it this way

[Latrinsorm]

I would think the way that the tickets were released created scarcity in and of itself. I think you're saying the same thing, Latri, that really there is no "scarcity" if they're sold all at once. When you release 25 at a time, it creates a much higher want/demand.As of this moment, Nicholas D. Wolfwood, you too are a scissoring monkey!!!

I... need to re-evaluate that phrasing.
The fact that there was 300 tickets, and 1000 players is what created the scarcity. How they were sold didn't change scarcity, it just made it harder to acquire one.I'll ask you the same question: how can it be harder to acquire if the supply is the same?

We know for a fact people were willing to pay more (hence ticket buyers selling their skills for profit), how can prices change if neither supply nor demand have?

[Jhynnifer]

rep: Semantics. Kitsun is a greedy fuck and he's your friend. I get it. By definition what he dead was not legally wrong. It was morally bankrupt though and his actions were deliberate.

Actually, I barely know Kitsun and I in no way support his actions. I still stand by my original statement that if he was using a bot then he should have had the tickets revoked I just didn't believe a permanent ban was in order. That being said, anytime Inspire wants to take the high ground and pretend he's a good guy I'll probably say something.

[neimanz1]

After reading just about every post in this thread I now have to say that even if Kitsun did what Simu accuses of him doing I really don't think he did anything wrong. Even Slit-eye (who has been the most vocal about defending Simu and saying Kitsun was in the wrong) says that what Kitsun is accused of does not amount to hacking.

So where does that leave us? He used a program that is apparently legal to get an advantage over others who were after the same thing he was.

"But he's greedy! It's not fair!" That is a good point. However this is honestly Simu's fault and Simu's fault alone. If Simu wanted to be "fair" they could have done so many other things. Even after the first run and they saw maybe only 30 unique people got tickets they could have changed things for the second run. After the second run was just as big of a disaster as the first run they could have changed things for the third run. They did it. They created this cut throat atmosphere and then sit back and act all shocked that people were engaging in said cut throat activities.

Kitsun doesn't deny the number of tickets he received so call him greedy if that's what you feel he is, but don't jump to Simu's defense in this case simply because you think Kitsun is greedy.


Yea nothing wrong with being greedy. I am sure most of us are guilty of that. I am curious if he call in and change the trial accounts into paying accounts. I would consider it abuse if he was using trial accounts to buy tickets . Since he doesn't really have to pay for those accounts if he didn't get tickets with them.

[Tgo01]

I am curious if he call in and change the trial accounts into paying accounts. I would consider it abuse if he was using trial accounts to buy tickets . Since he doesn't really have to pay for those accounts if he didn't get tickets with them.

True however this could have been prevented by Simu by stating that only accounts that were created two weeks prior to the first batch could buy tickets.

[Methais]

If I had enough accounts and enlisted a friend with a pulse, I could have scored 8 tickets per run too. Same with crb and anyone else who was able to figure out the exact second that tickets opened up. I'm pretty sure that all the tickets I've gotten were in the first 10 on the list. I know my characters were #6 and #7 (purchased in different batches).

I've explained it a million times how to do it, people insisted on spamming F5 anyway, and then cried after. Before the 3rd run went up for sale, Shinoo asked me if I had any advice on getting a ticket. I explained to him exactly how I did it, and surprise, he got a ticket on his first attempt.

What's the difference between Shinoo and the people who are crying over it? Shinoo isn't a fucking retard and can follow basic instructions.

My method was almost the exact same as Kitsun's, except I used an iPhone clock instead of time.gov, both of which seem to be synced to the same clock anyway, or within milliseconds of each other.

I scored 4 tickets altogether, 2 for me and 2 for other people. Used the same method every time.

Kitsun seems like a smart enough guy, and getting tickets this way really doesn't require a bot. It requires you to just not be fucking stupid.

If Kitsun (and his brother) were using a bot, they would have scored way more than 8 tickets.

What I'm trying to say is that if I had a brother, he would look like Kitsun.

[neimanz1]

True however this could have been prevented by Simu by stating that only accounts that were created two weeks prior to the first batch could buy tickets.

That's true but its like someone leaving their door unlock or open. Doesn't mean you should go in and take what you want. That's really the only problem I would have in this situation. IF you using free accounts to take away paying customers the opportunity for a ticket

[tyrant-201]

That's true but its like someone leaving their door unlock or open. Doesn't mean you should go in and take what you want. That's really the only problem I would have in this situation. IF you using free accounts to take away paying customers the opportunity for a ticket

People are arguing that once you pay for the account, whether it's still in the 30 day trial or not, it's a paid account and it's right. I still don't see it that way, personally. Creating an account and using a known loop-hole to get a ticket, then throwing the account away isn't cool.

[diethx]

He paid for all 8 accounts. He paid for the premium upcharge on at least 4 of them.

[Methais]

Why is nobody complaining about people with regular accounts upgrading to premium the day before the first 2 batches wet up for sale and then dropping back to basic after? How is that really any different then what Kitsun did?

[tyrant-201]

Why is nobody complaining about people with regular accounts upgrading to premium the day before the first 2 batches wet up for sale and then dropping back to basic after? How is that really any different then what Kitsun did?

I've said I don't agree with that, either. But it's less egregious than making a throwaway account to score a ticket once you've already gone once, or twice, or three or four.

[Methais]

I've said I don't agree with that, either. But it's less egregious than making a throwaway account to score a ticket once you've already gone once, or twice, or three or four.

How so, other than because it's your opinion?

[Methais]

The blame for the trial account thing and the premium upgrade thing are entirely on Simu.

If I'm remembering right, didn't premium accounts for past events have to be premium for 3 months, with the option to back pay? Why did they not do that for this event, both with trial and last minute premium upgrades?

How is opening up that loophole not Simu's fault? And since it's their fault, how can they get away with blaming it on players?

[tyrant-201]

How so, other than because it's your opinion?

I think you hit the nail on the head. It's my opinion.

But consider, just because someone upgrades to premium doesn't mean they're stopping someone else from getting a ticket. It also doesn't mean they've gone already, or already have a ticket.

Someone who creates an account, upgrades to a basic account in the trial period, either doesn't play the game and never had an account to begin with - or has other accounts who have a ticket or have already gone. I recognize I might need to spell this out for you, but the two proposed situations are indeed completely different.

[neimanz1]

He paid for all 8 accounts. He paid for the premium upcharge on at least 4 of them.

yea considering what methais said about people upgrading premium last min to get a chance at events there really isn't anything wrong if he paid for all the accounts. I upgraded one of my accounts last min for 2 more chances at buy tickets. But then did he pay all 8 accounts at once ? or did he make them as he got the tickets. Since if he paid and made all 8 accounts ahead of time he probably wasn't doing it all manually

[Methais]

I think you hit the nail on the head. It's my opinion.

But consider, just because someone upgrades to premium doesn't mean they're stopping someone else from getting a ticket. It also doesn't mean they've gone already, or already have a ticket.

Someone who creates an account, upgrades to a basic account in the trial period, either doesn't play the game and never had an account to begin with - or has other accounts who have a ticket or have already gone. I recognize I might need to spell this out for you, but the two proposed situations are indeed completely different.

Someone who upgrades to premium just before tickets went on sale is indeed stopping another premium person from getting a ticket, at least on the first 2 batches. Unless of course, the other guy also knows how to score a ticket, which is the case when going against a Kitsun trial account.

I scored 2 tickets to the third run for people, which basically proves that Kitsun didn't prevent me from doing shit. Even if Kitsun did prevent 8 people from scoring tickets, the 8 people who scored them after they were rereleased prevented the next 8 people from getting tickets.

Everyone who scored a ticket to any run of any limited ticket event is guilty of preventing someone else from getting a ticket, if you want to get down to the core of it all.

The whole "preventing others" argument is an emotional straw man argument at best.

[tyrant-201]

yea considering what methais said about people upgrading premium last min to get a chance at events there really isn't anything wrong if he paid for all the accounts. I upgraded one of my accounts last min for 2 more chances at buy tickets. But then did he pay all 8 accounts at once ? or did he make them as he got the tickets. Since if he paid and made all 8 accounts ahead of time he probably wasn't doing it all manually

I'm severely doubting he'd been paying for 8 accounts for awhile.

[Bobmuhthol]

Since if he paid and made all 8 accounts ahead of time he probably wasn't doing it all manuallyThis does not make any sense as an argument.

[tyrant-201]

Someone who upgrades to premium just before tickets went on sale is indeed stopping another premium person from getting a ticket, at least on the first 2 batches. Unless of course, the other guy also knows how to score a ticket, which is the case when going against a Kitsun trial account.

I scored 2 tickets to the third run for people, which basically proves that Kitsun didn't prevent me from doing shit. Even if Kitsun did prevent 8 people from scoring tickets, the 8 people who scored them after they were rereleased prevented the next 8 people from getting tickets.

Everyone who scored a ticket to any run of any limited ticket event is guilty of preventing someone else from getting a ticket, if you want to get down to the core of it all.

The whole "preventing others" argument is an emotional straw man argument at best.

Is it a straw-man, when you're talking about at least 8 tickets for himself? Give me a break. Technically yeah, -I- prevented someone from getting a ticket when I went on my one run. But I didn't prevent 7 others, either.

[Methais]

Is it a straw-man, when you're talking about at least 8 tickets for himself? Give me a break. Technically yeah, -I- prevented someone from getting a ticket when I went on my one run. But I didn't prevent 7 others, either.

1 vs. 7 really doesn't matter when you take the emotional part out of the argument. I don't agree with Kitsun trying to take that many accounts from a moral perspective, but from a rules perspective, he didn't break any stated rules.

Again, Simu has all the tools necessary to prevent trial accounts (as in last minute trial to normal account upgrades) and last minute premium upgrades from being eligible for tickets, yet they chose to not use them.

Is that the fault of Simu? Or is it the fault of the players?

[cwolff]

http://www.duffelblog.com/2012/12/marines-engage-in-reckless-behavior-due-to-lack-of-safety-brief/

It's a shame we have to even deal with this shit. It's like the assholes that run around MA'ing ten toons. Just because it's not explicitly against the written rules doesn't mean it's acceptable.

[Methais]

Know why I have a fence in my yard? Because my dogs will wander off and either get lost or run over if I didn't.

If I take down the fence, let my dogs out and they disappear or get run over, is that my fault? Or is it my dogs' fault?

[diethx]

How is MA'ing not acceptable?

[senorgordoburro]

Know why I have a fence in my yard? Because my dogs will wander off and either get lost or run over if I didn't.

If I take down the fence, let my dogs out and they disappear or get run over, is that my fault? Or is it my dogs' fault?

Does your fence's gate look like a goatse?

[tyrant-201]

Again, Simu has all the tools necessary to prevent trial accounts (as in last minute trial to normal account upgrades) and last minute premium upgrades from being eligible for tickets, yet they chose to not use them.

Is that the fault of Simu? Or is it the fault of the players?

Is there a need to place sole blame on either? From what I understood, it was clear that trial accounts were not supposed to be able to purchase a ticket. Should they have put safeguards up so that people couldn't create accounts or upgrade to premium to purchase tickets in the fashion they did? Yeah of course. But Simu is retarded.

The fact that we're sitting here and excusing a blatant abuse of the system by a handful of people, one in particular, because we like the guy or despise Simu or whatever is bullshit. Because of the actions of a few people, events like this have been ruined in the future for casual players. You can poke fun at people all you like about their ignorance or frustration with the ticket purchasing process - but the fact of the matter is it was initially unfair and we acknowledged this.

The actions of those select few resulted in the abuse of the system to their gain, forcing the casual player who'd like to go to sit on the sidelines. "You didn't click fast enough." "It's not our fault you don't know what you're doing." Aren't really plausible excuses for this sort of situation, in a game where the playerbase is so few that we have a max of what? 300-400 players at any given time.

[tyrant-201]

Know why I have a fence in my yard? Because my dogs will wander off and either get lost or run over if I didn't.

If I take down the fence, let my dogs out and they disappear or get run over, is that my fault? Or is it my dogs' fault?

Are you implying that people aren't intelligent enough to know where not to cross a line? What does it say to you when someone says "No trial accounts." Does that equate to, "No trial accounts but if you upgrade to prime within the first 30 days you're cool."

[diethx]

Yes. It does. That's exactly what it says. I mean, if they wanted to be specific and say account must be open for such and such time, then they should've said that. If you pay, you can buy a ticket (according to THEIR stated rules). Plain and simple.

[tyrant-201]

Yes. It does.

Yeah well you admittedly don't play and used an account to liquidate and make money. Your opinion, in my opinion, has no value to my response :)

[Bobmuhthol]

Yes. It does. That's exactly what it says. I mean, if they wanted to be specific and say account must be open for such and such time, then they should've said that. If you pay, you can buy a ticket. Plain and simple.Precisely. Solomon, Wyrom, whoever the fuck it was defined a bright line rule. He explicitly stated that this is the type of account not allowed to buy tickets. Kitsun had no such account.

[diethx]

Yeah well you admittedly don't play and used an account to liquidate and make money. Your opinion, in my opinion, has no value to my response :)

What exactly does my playing or selling items have anything to do with that statement? Oh right, nothing. It has nothing to do with it.

It's not an opinion. It's saying flat out - that is what that statement means. No trial accounts means no trial accounts. A paid account is not a trial account. Therefore, buying tickets with a paid account, no matter how long the account had been open, is not against the rules. It's not buying tickets with a trial account.

No matter how you try to manipulate it, twist it and turn it to fit into the little hole you want it to, doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.

[Donquix]

If all you have to argue your point is semantics, you're generally wrong.

This isn't a court of law. They laid out some ground rules obviously to prevent people from hoarding tickets. The most egregious offender violated the obvious intent of those rules, even if they weren't all encompassing.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and buys 4-5 more tickets then anyone else...it's a duck. With a lot of tickets.

[neimanz1]

This does not make any sense as an argument.

Would you really risk opening all 8 account at once if you were only 2 people clicking or would you open them as you go? you would most likely do it with 2 accounts . one for each. or if you a cocky bastard 4 account and two each. But you open all 8 accounts before batch one came up for sale you most likely had an unfair advantage.

[Jarvan]

yea considering what methais said about people upgrading premium last min to get a chance at events there really isn't anything wrong if he paid for all the accounts. I upgraded one of my accounts last min for 2 more chances at buy tickets. But then did he pay all 8 accounts at once ? or did he make them as he got the tickets. Since if he paid and made all 8 accounts ahead of time he probably wasn't doing it all manually

Actually, you could create the account and upgrade that day to premium, and try for the ticket. I do not know if you would be billed right then, or if you would be billed at night like normal. If billed at night like normal, and you didn't get a ticket, you would just change the CC to one that doesn't have room or doesn't exist. Problem solved. If billed right then and there before you get the ticket, all you are doing is taking a chance at getting a ticket. But you are still gaming the system.

Like I said, how exactly is what Kitsun did any better then what I wanted to do and was told no?

[diethx]

If all you have to argue your point is semantics, you're generally wrong.

This isn't a court of law. They laid out some ground rules obviously to prevent people from hoarding tickets. The most egregious offender violated the obvious intent of those rules, even if they weren't all encompassing.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and buys 4-5 more tickets then anyone else...it's a duck. With a lot of tickets.

They laid out rules. Kitsun followed them. If they wanted their rules to specify something different, they should have made different rules.

[AuctionBot2000]

What exactly does my playing or selling items have anything to do with that statement? Oh right, nothing. It has nothing to do with it.

It's not an opinion. It's saying flat out - that is what that statement means. No trial accounts means no trial accounts. A paid account is not a trial account. Therefore, buying tickets with a paid account, no matter how long the account had been open, is not against the rules. It's not buying tickets with a trial account.

No matter how you try to manipulate it, twist it and turn it to fit into the little hole you want it to, doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.


He could be wrong, but then again. He's not the one banned for attempting to buy 16 RtCF tickets.

[diethx]

He could be wrong, but then again. He's not the one banned for attempting to buy 16 RtCF tickets.

True. He's also not the guy who posted this:


Against my better judgement I'm going to write the following and tell you the truth about my life.

I'll start by saying that I'm a very private person. I grew up a Jehovahs Witness and unless you were part of the church you were considered to be a "worldly" person and a bad person. So growing up I had no friends because I was not allowed to play with anyone outside of the church.

When I became a teenager I found Gemstone and got hooked. It was an escape from a life that I didn't agree with. I was only allowed to play for an hour here or there and spent most of my time being a twat dragging bodies out of TSC to decay and whatnot. But having a place where I could be someone different than who I was forced to be was salvation.

Eventually I got out on my own and came back to GS. I played on and off for a few years, never really making any close friends. I was part of the Trophy Room gang when Debia, Jubuls, the original Tijay, Xak, etc used to hang there.

Anyway, fast forward about 9 years from there and it brings us to last year. I guess I should also tell you that I am a 28 year old bisexual male, I'm not a girl but it's sometimes fun to play around. I have been in a relationship for 4 years now with someone I care about very deeply. Unfortunately that person had a drinking problem and it got out of control. One night he decided to swallow a tube of pills and drink himself to death. I woke up at 4am to find him barely breathing. I called 911 and they rushed him to the hospital where he stayed for awhile. He went into rehab from there and got help for his drinking problem but I wasn't alright. His suicide attempt affected me in ways that I wasn't prepared for. I became severely depressed myself and sunk into gemstone like a tick. It was getting harder and harder for me to get out of bed in the morning and I started missing more and more work. I eventually was let go, which made me sink even further into GS.

Thankfully I was able to make silvers in the game and sell them to the PC community. Had it not been for all of you, I wouldn't have made it over the last year, financially or mentally. That is also part of the reason why Myklians changing was hard on me. I was using gemstone to survive and to pay my bills. It became a full time job. When Myklians were changed I realized my life was about to become much more difficult and I freaked out. I was already in a bad place because of the suicide attempt and I no longer knew how to deal with anything.

So where does that leave me now. Unfortunately I have a drug problem. I smoke marijuana every day. I don't like taking pills to be normal, so I turned to drugs to stabilize my mood and help me feel better. Most of the time I am alright, but every now and then I turn into an ugly monster, which is what you see from time to time on lnet.

So, this is the mess that is my life. Feel free to make fun of me now in typical PC fashion. I'm sorry if I have insulted you personally. Please know that it wasn't personal if I went off on you. I have a lot of problems that I don't know how to deal with or overcome. I have become someone that I don't want to be, so I am sorry if I have affected you negatively because of it.

[tyrant-201]

What exactly does my playing or selling items have anything to do with that statement? Oh right, nothing. It has nothing to do with it.


It means your opinion on the matter has little to no value, -in my opinion- (as I explicitly said before). You don't play. You, or the person who gave you your ticket, have little to no regard for the community which supports this game. You used it as a cash cow and don't even play, and I have no respect for that.

[diethx]

It means your opinion on the matter has little to no value, -in my opinion- (as I explicitly said before). You don't play. You, or the person who gave you your ticket, have little to no regard for the community which supports this game. You used it as a cash cow and don't even play, and I have no respect for that.

Whether or not you respect what I did, that doesn't mean the facts (which have nothing to do with me) are invalid. You keep calling fact an opinion. A trial account is not a paid account, that is fact. Kitsun used only paid accounts to buy tickets, that is fact.

You can argue he's greedy all you like, however you can't argue that he broke any rules. And yet, you keep trying...

[tyrant-201]

Whether or not you respect what I did, that doesn't mean the facts (which have nothing to do with me) are invalid. You keep calling fact an opinion. A trial account is not a paid account, that is fact. Kitsun used only paid accounts to buy tickets, that is fact.

You can argue he's greedy all you like, however you can't argue that he broke any rules. And yet, you keep trying...

Show me where I said he broke any rules. I've said he, and everyone else who did what he did, should've known better.

[Latrinsorm]

Because of the actions of a few people, events like this have been ruined in the future for casual players.Casual is another relative term, though. How many casual players even have 1m in the bank, let alone the trebillions needed to get whatever thingie?
If all you have to argue your point is semantics, you're generally wrong.

This isn't a court of law. They laid out some ground rules obviously to prevent people from hoarding tickets. The most egregious offender violated the obvious intent of those rules, even if they weren't all encompassing.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and buys 4-5 more tickets then anyone else...it's a duck. With a lot of tickets.I think if you say the "most egregious offender" violated no actual rules while there are other unpunished people who did (with disk-operating-system applications that bot), it is hard to take what you say seriously.

[Jhynnifer]

True. He's also not the guy who posted this:


bazinga.

[Donquix]

They laid out rules. Kitsun followed them. If they wanted their rules to specify something different, they should have made different rules.

They're punishing intent and action. Your counterpoint hinges on loopholes and verbiage, and is irrelevant. Stop watching so much law and order.

[diethx]

Are you implying that people aren't intelligent enough to know where not to cross a line? What does it say to you when someone says "No trial accounts." Does that equate to, "No trial accounts but if you upgrade to prime within the first 30 days you're cool."

You pretty much said so here.

[cwolff]

They laid out rules. Kitsun followed them. If they wanted their rules to specify something different, they should have made different rules.

It's not on SIMU to write rule book that will cover every contigency. It's on us to not be assholes. It's that simple. This isn't some great debate or an act of congress. Just don't be a dick. That's it.

Kitsun was a dick so he's facing some consequences. Hopefully this will keep people from being dicks at future events.

[tyrant-201]

You pretty much said so here.

Did I? I'm not seeing where I said anyone broke the rules. I'm implying that people should have known better, in what I said there. "Crossing a line" does not mean "Rule breaking"

[Latrinsorm]

They're punishing intent and action. Your counterpoint hinges on loopholes and verbiage, and is irrelevant. Stop watching so much law and order.They're punishing for the sake of punishing. Does my declaring that convince you any more than your declaration convinced me?

[diethx]

They're punishing intent and action. Your counterpoint hinges on loopholes and verbiage, and is irrelevant. Stop watching so much law and order.

Dude, come on. They just picked someone to make an example of to satisfy all the whining little twats complaining about the unfairness of the ticket system. They had to prove they were still in control. They picked Kit, who happened to buy the most tickets. Plain and simple.

My point doesn't hinge on loopholes and verbiage. My point takes the stated rules at face value. YOUR point is the one that tries to twist the stated rules beyond their face value, to draw out what you want to read from them.

[diethx]

It's not on SIMU to write rule book that will cover every contigency. It's on us to not be assholes. It's that simple. This isn't some great debate or an act of congress. Just don't be a dick. That's it.

Kitsun was a dick so he's facing some consequences. Hopefully this will keep people from being dicks at future events.

Actually it pretty much is on them to write the rules to cover every contingency. It pretty much is, wholly and completely.

Not everyone thinks he was a dick.

[Donquix]

Casual is another relative term, though. How many casual players even have 1m in the bank, let alone the trebillions needed to get whatever thingie?I think if you say the "most egregious offender" violated no actual rules while there are other unpunished people who did (with disk-operating-system applications that bot), it is hard to take what you say seriously.

Allegedly.

[zzentar]

True. He's also not the guy who posted this:

Not quite sure why you are head deep in Kitson's ass, but trying to redirect to an Inspire post makes you look like you have zero ammo in that gun.

Twist it anyway you want but a guy that had 8 tickets, 3 already used, 5 pending that buys 8 more and says 'i might not get everything I wanted' as an excuse. shows a lot of his character.

As a butthurt GS'er that couldn't get a ticket, I say, "fuck you and I wont shed a tear over your 30 day ban"

[Bobmuhthol]

Would you really risk opening all 8 account at once if you were only 2 people clicking or would you open them as you go? you would most likely do it with 2 accounts . one for each. or if you a cocky bastard 4 account and two each. But you open all 8 accounts before batch one came up for sale you most likely had an unfair advantage.The argument that I inferred is that it wouldn't be worth risking paying for 8 accounts if you didn't know that you'd be able to get a ticket on all of them. The problem is that you're not any more certain between having a script running and having a person, so your hypothetical doesn't make any sense. There's no certainty with either method. Now, all of that is purely on a hypothetical level. What Kitsun actually did doesn't matter because your argument is not even theoretically sound, so it can't be applied to Kitsun's actions. It doesn't matter when he opened the accounts because it proves nothing.

[Donquix]

Dude, come on. They just picked someone to make an example of to satisfy all the whining little twats complaining about the unfairness of the ticket system. They had to prove they were still in control. They picked Kit, who happened to buy the most tickets. Plain and simple.

My point doesn't hinge on loopholes and verbiage. My point takes the stated rules at face value. YOUR point is the one that tries to twist the stated rules beyond their face value, to draw out what you want to read from them.

Yes, because "no trial accounts" and "this trial account i paid 15 bucks for once and will cancel if i don't get a ticket" are SOOOOOO different. You're so right.

They straight up said don't do stupid shit. To me, that falls under "stupid shit".

Once again, it's not a court room. They told you don't be assholes, you were assholes, they punished the biggest asshole. The end. If you don't like it, stop giving them your money.

[prance1520]

They laid out rules. Kitsun followed them. If they wanted their rules to specify something different, they should have made different rules.

I completely disagree. This is the whole reason the US legal system is a clusterfuck. There will always be loopholes, so if you don't uphold the spirit of the rules rather than the technicalities, you'll never actually accomplish what your trying to.

[Jarvan]

Actually it pretty much is on them to write the rules to cover every contingency. It pretty much is, wholly and completely.

Not everyone thinks he was a dick.


It's not on SIMU to write rule book that will cover every contigency. It's on us to not be assholes. It's that simple. This isn't some great debate or an act of congress. Just don't be a dick. That's it.

Kitsun was a dick so he's facing some consequences. Hopefully this will keep people from being dicks at future events.

It's funny, there were no laws or rules against hacking on the internet, before someone hacked on the internet. Did that first person caught doing something before there was a law against it get a pass just because the law wasn't in place yet?

Not likely.

As for trial accounts. if you create an account right this minute, and upgrade it to premium, for the sole purpose of attending the FWI festival today JUST for one specific auction/raffle, then cancel the account right after. How exactly would that NOT be circumventing the trial account rule? It may be paid for (IF it bills right at the second you click upgrade and not at midnight simu time) but it's still a trail account really. If Kitsun hadn't gotten a single ticket, none of those accounts would have existed after day two of ticket sales. So yes, they were trial accounts.

Definition of trial...

4
a : a tryout or experiment to test quality, value, or usefulness — compare clinical trial
b : one of a number of repetitions of an experiment

5: attempt

The accounts were created for the sole purpose of trying (attempt) to obtain tickets. Once the ticket sales were over, if he obtained a ticket the account would then have value, or be useful, therefor no longer being just a trail. Once the festival was over, the usefulness of the account would be over, thereby the trail period would be over.

Trial account does not need to mean FREE period. Actually, I don't Solomon mentioned FREE accounts, he mentioned trial accounts. It's up to him to define that anyway he wants. Apparently, he decided to define it as a newly created account solely made for the explicit nature of obtaining extra tickets to a limited release event.

Which means Kitsun loses and you are wrong Die. I know, it sucks for you to be wrong, but it happens. Very often I am sure.

[Tgo01]

It's not on SIMU to write rule book that will cover every contigency. It's on us to not be assholes. It's that simple. This isn't some great debate or an act of congress. Just don't be a dick. That's it.

Of course they're supposed to write a rule book that will cover every contingency, that's why they get paid the big bucks. Ever play Monopoly? Ever kick someone's ass in it by following the rules? Was there ever an instance you sat there and said "Well shit...this is a pretty vague rule here..."

Perhaps if Simu had simply laid out a rule that said only three tickets per person (not per account) then perhaps we could all sit back and call Kitsun a dick. But Simu didn't do that, instead they made these stupid ass rules such as "trial accounts can't get tickets" and did some inane batch release ticket system and all sorts of other shit. There was really an easy way for Simu to make this event "fair" but they didn't do shit. Now that the tickets are all sold and there are some people who didn't get a single ticket they are now whining and complaining and Simu needs to look like the good guy and they chose Kitsun to make an example out of.

It really is that simple.

[Velfi]

So far ITT I've gone from thinking what a greedy dick + Simu is stupid to a combination of WTF and lol Inspire.

Thanks for the laughs so far.

[Tgo01]

Once again, it's not a court room. They told you don't be assholes, you were assholes, they punished the biggest asshole.

I know you're paraphrasing but where did Simu say don't be assholes? Was it really that vague?

[Donquix]

I know you're paraphrasing but where did Simu say don't be assholes? Was it really that vague?

They said some stuff explicitly but the blanket rule was "No funny business".

Regardless of method, with everyone already complaining about the scarcity of tickets and how hard they will be to get, getting 16/300 tickets or whatever it was seems covered.

[Bobmuhthol]

It's funny, there were no laws or rules against hacking on the internet, before someone hacked on the internet. Did that first person caught doing something before there was a law against it get a pass just because the law wasn't in place yet?

Not likely.This is not only likely, but absolutely true. It is explicitly unconstitutional to prosecute someone for an action that was not a crime at the time that it was committed. There is no such thing as "yeah, it wasn't a crime, but you should have known better" in criminal law for the very fucking reason that the government should not be allowed to get pissed off about something and make up retroactive rules to go after people it doesn't like.

[cwolff]

Perhaps if Simu had simply laid out a rule that said only three tickets per person (not per account) then perhaps we could all sit back and call Kitsun a dick. But Simu didn't do that, instead they made these stupid ass rules such as "trial accounts can't get tickets" and did some inane batch release ticket system and all sorts of other shit. There was really an easy way for Simu to make this event "fair" but they didn't do shit. Now that the tickets are all sold and there are some people who didn't get a single ticket they are now whining and complaining and Simu needs to look like the good guy and they chose Kitsun to make an example out of.

Ya, I agree they made a serious miscalculation and it would have been better if they tried to limit tickets per person vs. accounts. I think they had no idea that the ticket sales would be such a cluster fuck.

[diethx]

Not quite sure why you are head deep in Kitson's ass, but trying to redirect to an Inspire post makes you look like you have zero ammo in that gun.

A) It's Kitsun, and while his ass is quite fabulous, I tend to keep my head out of any and all, fabulous or not.

B) AuctionBot2000 is Inspire, which is why I quoted the post in response to him being a fucktard. Try to keep the fuck up.

[AuctionBot2000]

Whether or not you respect what I did, that doesn't mean the facts (which have nothing to do with me) are invalid. You keep calling fact an opinion. A trial account is not a paid account, that is fact. Kitsun used only paid accounts to buy tickets, that is fact.

You can argue he's greedy all you like, however you can't argue that he broke any rules. And yet, you keep trying...

It's hard to say he didn't break any rules when he's banned and had 8 tickets confiscated for cheating.

[prance1520]

This is not only likely, but absolutely true. It is explicitly unconstitutional to prosecute someone for an action that was not a crime at the time that it was committed. There is no such thing as "yeah, it wasn't a crime, but you should have known better" in criminal law for the very fucking reason that the government should not be allowed to get pissed off about something and make up retroactive rules to go after people it doesn't like.

That's cool. So next time Gemstone violates a real law, I'll be happy to bring this up. In the mean time, while we're talking about the rules of a game with a community that is supposed to have fun together, I think we can give this thinking some slack.

[AuctionBot2000]

I'm still wondering why Solomon didn't send him into the void as stated. Someone should ask him where his balls went.

[Jarvan]

This is not only likely, but absolutely true. It is explicitly unconstitutional to prosecute someone for an action that was not a crime at the time that it was committed. There is no such thing as "yeah, it wasn't a crime, but you should have known better" in criminal law for the very fucking reason that the government should not be allowed to get pissed off about something and make up retroactive rules to go after people it doesn't like.

You do realize that they would just prosecute under a different rule that could be applied and that's that, right?

Hacking a bank's computer to steal money was not illegal until a law was made, but stealing still was.

Hacking a power plant to turn off the electricity may not have been illegal, but I am sure breaking in and throwing the breaker would be.

It's simply the means to the end that may not have been illegal, not the end itself.

Another one for you, since I am sure you would disagree with the first two.

If you have an online business, and someone hacked your website and shut it down for the day, costing you tens of thousands of dollars, may not have been illegal at once point, but it would be the same thing as finding a way to shut down the business IRL for a day, costing them tens of thousands of dollars. Even if there was no law for hacking, which yeah, you may have not gotten charged with, you would get charged with other crimes.

[Bobmuhthol]

That's cool. So next time Gemstone violates a a real law, I'll be happy to bring this up. In the mean time, while we're talking about the rules of a game with a community that is supposed to have fun together, I think we can give this thinking some slack.Jarvan's argument was that criminals are prosecuted for crimes that didn't exist before the act. He's wrong. Why are you trying to insinuate that I applied this in any way to Gemstone?

[Bobmuhthol]

You do realize that they would just prosecute under a different rule that could be applied and that's that, right?

Hacking a bank's computer to steal money was not illegal until a law was made, but stealing still was.

Hacking a power plant to turn off the electricity may not have been illegal, but I am sure breaking in and throwing the breaker would be.

It's simply the means to the end that may not have been illegal, not the end itself.

Another one for you, since I am sure you would disagree with the first two.

If you have an online business, and someone hacked your website and shut it down for the day, costing you tens of thousands of dollars, may not have been illegal at once point, but it would be the same thing as finding a way to shut down the business IRL for a day, costing them tens of thousands of dollars. Even if there was no law for hacking, which yeah, you may have not gotten charged with, you would get charged with other crimes.I didn't read this post, but you said that the first person to hack was not given a pass since hacking wasn't a crime. You are completely wrong, and they were. Being charged with another crime would mean the other crime was committed, which therefore means that the law was already in place when the act occurred, and therefore your entire argument is pointless.

Costing a business money is a tort and not a crime. Crimes are crimes.

[Rethius]

Binding tickets to accounts and limiting the amount an IP can actually purchase would solve all of this.

But that would make people cry foul.

[tyrant-201]

Binding tickets to accounts and limiting the amount an IP can actually purchase would solve all of this.

But that would make people cry foul.

There are ways around that, as well.

[Thondalar]

Jarvan's argument was that criminals are prosecuted for crimes that didn't exist before the act. He's wrong. Why are you trying to insinuate that I applied this in any way to Gemstone?

A lot of the people replying to this thread don't spend much time in the Politics folder, so they aren't used to the rampant hijacking and topic changes, and probably assumed whatever typed was in some way related to the OP.

[Rethius]

There are ways around that, as well.

Yeah, just thought about that and went back to edit but you beat me to it.

Now I'm shamed. Are you happy?!

[zzentar]

I disagree, I have two accounts and before I could open second one I had to call billing.
It would not accept my CC# since it was used on another account.
No reason its not the same way with box office.

[Bobmuhthol]

Aside from ways around matching an IP, you also run into the problem of two different people with the same IP.

[tyrant-201]

Yeah, just thought about that and went back to edit but you beat me to it.

Now I'm shamed. Are you happy?!

No :(

[Tgo01]

They could have used a variety of things; same credit card info, account history (come on, is it really any secret which accounts belong to Fleurs even if she uses different credit card accounts), billing information.

No it wouldn't have been 100% fool proof but at least the rule would have been laid out and there would be no question that someone broke the rule.

[Jarvan]

I didn't read this post, but you said that the first person to hack was not given a pass since hacking wasn't a crime. You are completely wrong, and they were. Being charged with another crime would mean the other crime was committed, which therefore means that the law was already in place when the act occurred, and therefore your entire argument is pointless.

Costing a business money is a tort and not a crime. Crimes are crimes.

Fine Mr know it all, what was the first confirmed hacking that got caught, but did not get into any trouble at all?

Also, you do know that you can commit more then one crime at the same time right? Driving 120 on the highway isn't JUST speeding after all.

Using computers to break into a secure government facility could still be a violation of a law, even if the computer portion wasn't yet address by congress. I am sure there is one for accessing secure government locations, for example. Not to mention if they stole any data, that would be theft at the very least.

[Latrinsorm]

It's hard to say he didn't break any rules when he's banned and had 8 tickets confiscated for cheating.It's actually very easy once you deny the omniscience of the police in general, and the omniscience of Simucops in particular. Not everyone who is punished is guilty at all, let alone of the crime they are alleged to have committed.

I apparently will never get tired of trotting this out: there were 13 people sentenced to death in Illinois, through all the appeals process we associate(/decry) with the death penalty, that all turned out to be innocent. Do you think some dude at Simutronics has the resources, time, or inclination to do as thorough an investigation as is involved in capital cases?

[Bobmuhthol]

Fine Mr know it all, what was the first confirmed hacking that got caught, but did not get into any trouble at all?

Also, you do know that you can commit more then one crime at the same time right? Driving 120 on the highway isn't JUST speeding after all.

Using computers to break into a secure government facility could still be a violation of a law, even if the computer portion wasn't yet address by congress. I am sure there is one for accessing secure government locations, for example. Not to mention if they stole any data, that would be theft at the very least.... there would logically be no record of a person committing a crime that wasn't a crime, so how am I supposed to answer this? I don't need a historical example to be right. It's unconstitutional to prosecute an act before it was a crime. The end.

Your entire argument was that committing a crime before it became a crime still makes you a criminal, and the example you happened to use was hacking. Now you're going back and trying to say that the act of hacking also involves committing other crimes. Hey, that's awesome, and that's why hackers face more than one criminal charge. But the first hacker was never charged with any laws pertaining to hacking, so you're still wrong.

Today, having a right arm is not a crime in any fashion. If I lose my right arm today, and tomorrow a law is passed criminalizing right arms, I can never be charged with possession of a right arm despite having one today. Therefore, you're still wrong.

[dszabo]

I disagree, I have two accounts and before I could open second one I had to call billing.
It would not accept my CC# since it was used on another account.
No reason its not the same way with box office.

They changed this policy a while back. You can rapid fire new accounts now with the same CC. It was an unannounced change.

[Methais]

Simu could have easily set a "accounts less than X days old are not eligible regardless of if its premium or basic or plat or whatever" rule, which to my knowledge is what they did with previous events where you had to be premium for 90 days.

I've yet to hear an argument as to why Simu electing to not do that this time around isn't 100% their fault. The reason they did that before was specifically to prevent this type of thing from happening.

[zzentar]

Simu could have easily set a "accounts less than X days old are not eligible regardless of if its premium or basic or play or whatever" rule, which to my knowledge is what they did with previous events where you had to be premium for 90 days.

I've yet to hear an argument as to why Simu electing to not do that this time around isn't 100% their fault. The reason they did that before was specifically to prevent this type of thing from happening.

I agree completely

[Jarvan]

... there would logically be no record of a person committing a crime that wasn't a crime, so how am I supposed to answer this? I don't need a historical example to be right. It's unconstitutional to prosecute an act before it was a crime. The end.

Your entire argument was that committing a crime before it became a crime still makes you a criminal, and the example you happened to use was hacking. Now you're going back and trying to say that the act of hacking also involves committing other crimes. Hey, that's awesome, and that's why hackers face more than one criminal charge. But the first hacker was never charged with any laws pertaining to hacking, so you're still wrong.

Today, having a right arm is not a crime in any fashion. If I lose my right arm today, and tomorrow a law is passed criminalizing right arms, I can never be charged with possession of a right arm despite having one today. Therefore, you're still wrong.

You really are obtuse. My example was that Kitsun supposedly did something that was against the rules, even tho there was no Explicit rule exactly pertaining to what he did. They could very well have chosen to use "disruptive behavior" thereby charging him with a crime, when there was no so called Crime as of yet. I never said hacking on it's own would get you charged with hacking, I said the first person caught for hacking, even if the hacking wasn't a crime, would not get a pass.


It's funny, there were no laws or rules against hacking on the internet, before someone hacked on the internet. Did that first person caught doing something before there was a law against it get a pass just because the law wasn't in place yet?

Not likely.

I am sorry, maybe you did fail reading, but I did not say in there that the person would GO TO JAIL for hacking. I said they wouldn't get a pass.

MR FBI "So you used a computer to get access to Los Alamos and stole top secret info, you are damn lucky we don't have any laws against using computers to get access to things yet, go on, get out of here you little scamp" <---- This would not happen.

I was saying the above idiot.

Learn to read.

[Jarvan]

Simu could have easily set a "accounts less than X days old are not eligible regardless of if its premium or basic or play or whatever" rule, which to my knowledge is what they did with previous events where you had to be premium for 90 days.

I've yet to hear an argument as to why Simu electing to not do that this time around isn't 100% their fault. The reason they did that before was specifically to prevent this type of thing from happening.

Solomon Saying "do not try to get access with a trial account or take a level zero char" I think was pretty explicit.

Now you have to argue meaning of trial account. Which is also something Simu would win depending how they wanted to define it.

[Methais]

Solomon Saying "do not try to get access with a trial account or take a level zero char" I think was pretty explicit.

Now you have to argue meaning of trial account. Which is also something Simu would win depending how they wanted to define it.

Trial accounts are free. Once you pay for an account, it is no longer a trial account.

Simu completely overlooked the loophole they left wide open, and are trying to save face by making Kitsun their scapegoat instead of saying, "Sorry, we fucked up and overlooked this."

Hence why a "no accounts less than X days old" is the silver bullet that they've used before but for some reason made a conscious decision to leave that rule out this time around.

[Bobmuhthol]

You really are obtuse. My example was that Kitsun supposedly did something that was against the rules, even tho there was no Explicit rule exactly pertaining to what he did. They could very well have chosen to use "disruptive behavior" thereby charging him with a crime, when there was no so called Crime as of yet. I never said hacking on it's own would get you charged with hacking, I said the first person caught for hacking, even if the hacking wasn't a crime, would not get a pass.



I am sorry, maybe you did fail reading, but I did not say in there that the person would GO TO JAIL for hacking. I said they wouldn't get a pass.

MR FBI "So you used a computer to get access to Los Alamos and stole top secret info, you are damn lucky we don't have any laws against using computers to get access to things yet, go on, get out of here you little scamp" <---- This would not happen.

I was saying the above idiot.

Learn to read.So you didn't even have an argument then?

[Latrinsorm]

If I may quote Daffy Duck: pronoun trouble.

When you say "Did that first person caught doing something before there was a law against it get a pass just because the law wasn't in place yet?", the most reasonable antecedent for "it" is something that there was no law against, and in that case Bob is absolutely correct. The Latin phrase for this is ex post facto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law), and it is very much frowned upon in civilized society.

You apparently meant "it" to mean a criminal act one part of which was not yet explicitly criminal. That's fine, the whole point of pronouns is that they are not explicitly defined, but to blast someone to learn to read when your point was by definition unwritten is rather unsporting.

[Rethius]

Solomon Saying "do not try to get access with a trial account or take a level zero char" I think was pretty explicit.

Now you have to argue meaning of trial account. Which is also something Simu would win depending how they wanted to define it.

Trial accounts cannot attack other players outside of Defensive and Guarded stance, have parts of their profile inaccessible and probably more.

I'm assuming a paid for account (not on trial) has full access to the above mentioned and more.

[Latrinsorm]

Hence why a "no accounts less than X days old" is the silver bullet that they've used before but for some reason made a conscious decision to leave that rule out this time around.If I may briefly piggy-back on this point for crb's nominal benefit (I say nominal because he's not reading this post anyway, not that I blame him): surely this is more evidence that Simu's desire was not (as allegedly stated) fairness but to maximize demand ÷ supply by any means necessary.

[Methais]

If someone got pulled over for texting and driving before texting and driving was outlawed, the cop issues a ticket for texting and driving under the pretense of "You should have known better," what do you think the judge would say about it?

[Latrinsorm]

If someone got pulled over for texting and driving before texting and driving was outlawed, the cop issues a ticket for texting and driving under the pretense of "You should have known better," what do you think the judge would say about it?Surely that depends on if I am black and/or Hispanic...?

[cwolff]

This isn't about rule of law as has been pointed out. It's computer game owned by SIMU and they can do anything they want.

If they did want to invoke the "law" they can with disruptive behavior or even bug abuse.

Attempts to gain an unfair advantage which circumnavigates the letter and/or spirit of the rules presented in the documentation and the version notes, as judged solely by Simutronics, are a violation of policy. Types of abuse range from sending special characters or signals to the software to obtain an unusual result, to using normal game mechanics in ways they are clearly not intended.

[Tgo01]

Surely that depends on if I am black and/or Hispanic...?

Or more importantly a woman. A woman driving, pshaw.

[Tgo01]

This isn't about rule of law as has been pointed out. It's computer game owned by SIMU and they can do anything they want.

Well...within reason of course, but I think I know what you mean.


Attempts to gain an unfair advantage which circumnavigates the letter and/or spirit of the rules presented in the documentation and the version notes, as judged solely by Simutronics, are a violation of policy. Types of abuse range from sending special characters or signals to the software to obtain an unusual result, to using normal game mechanics in ways they are clearly not intended.

How can you circumnavigate the "spirit" of a rule? You either break the rule or you don't, right?

[tyrant-201]

Well...within reason of course, but I think I know what you mean.



How can you circumnavigate the "spirit" of a rule? You either break the rule or you don't, right?

Dude. I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, Dude. Across this line, you DO NOT... also, dude, breaking the rules is not the issue here.

[zzentar]

Surely that depends on if I am black and/or Hispanic...?

I am honestly confused about your intentions. I personally think you just like to argue and see your speech made into text.

I could be wrong, maybe you threw some skin in this game and play GS again. Otherwise why are you so obsessed with a game thread?

I can only assume you need to see your posts to feel important or more importantly realize that your only power in life now is to jump in threads that don't concern you at all and swing that rep hammer you hold.

[Bobmuhthol]

How can you circumnavigate the "spirit" of a rule? You either break the rule or you don't, right?This is a real thing. If a law said, "Don't say anything to Tgo01," and then email was invented and I emailed you, I would be violating the spirit of the law. The problem is that there is no clear spirit, as the rule was against trial accounts, and there are no trial accounts in this case. Then the spirit suddenly and arbitrarily became "yeah but you bought too many tickets," except no one else is being held to that standard.

[Bobmuhthol]

I am honestly confused about your intentions. I personally think you just like to argue and see your speech made into text.

I could be wrong, maybe you threw some skin in this game and play GS again. Otherwise why are you so obsessed with a game thread?

I can only assume you need to see your posts to feel important or more importantly realize that your only power in life now is to jump in threads that don't concern you at all and swing that rep hammer you hold.Holy shit, what the fuck are you talking about?

[diethx]

bug abuse.

lolwut

[Kitsun]

Solomon Saying "do not try to get access with a trial account or take a level zero char" I think was pretty explicit.

Now you have to argue meaning of trial account. Which is also something Simu would win depending how they wanted to define it.

This was in the original post but here it is again:



http://www.tinyheroes.com/forums/GemStone%20IV/Quests%60Sagas%60Events/Returning%20to%20Coraesine%20Field/thread/1580781?page=1][/url]
Returning to Coraesine Field: Free Ticket Reminder, Transfers, and Trial Accounts
06/29/2013 04:23 PM EDT
With the second batch of tickets in Prime about to go up for sale, this is a reminder that anyone who has a free ticket for the event should NOT buy a ticket. Doing so will void your free ticket. And then I will re-release it right away, no questions asked.

Transferring a character that has already gone to RtCF to another account will still make that character ineligible for any services, so do not take the same character twice.

Trial accounts (and level 0 characters) cannot win most services at RtCF, so it would be wise to not attend with a trial account. You can shop and do the quest at Lite though as a trial account.

[Bobmuhthol]

There wasn't even a fucking rule against anything to do with account subscriptions...

I guess that's also my fault for not actually reading Wyrom's post, but how fucking dumb are the rest of you complaining that Kitsun used a magical loophole to avoid a nonexistent rule?

[Donquix]

This is a real thing. If a law said, "Don't say anything to Tgo01," and then email was invented and I emailed you, I would be violating the spirit of the law. The problem is that there is no clear spirit, as the rule was against trial accounts, and there are no trial accounts in this case. Then the spirit suddenly and arbitrarily became "yeah but you bought too many tickets," except no one else is being held to that standard.

1) It's. Not. A. Fucking. Courtroom. Stop treating it as such.

2) No other single person accounted for 5%-6% of all ticket purchases, that they can prove. Kitsun did, they put kit's head on a pike. Rightfully so, 16 tickets is well into re-god-damn-diculous territory.

It's like two siblings in the backseat on a road trip, and simu is the older brother.
simu: "stop touching me"
kitsun: <holds finger right in front of simu's face> "I"M NOT TOUCHING YOU"
simu:
http://i.imgur.com/pSSbhQv.gif

[cwolff]

lolwut

My point is that they can do whatever they want. If you need a rule for them to do it, then they can interpret any rule that's already in place like Disruptive Behavior or Bug Abuse.

They can even just make a judgement call and lock you out.

You don't own your character, character name, gear, account or anything. SIMU owns it and they let you use it if you pay them. If you make things a problem for their other customers they can do anything they want to fix the problem.

[Bobmuhthol]

2) No other single person accounted for 5%-6% of all ticket purchases, that they can prove. Kitsun did, they put kit's head on a pike. Rightfully so, 16 tickets is well into re-god-damn-diculous territory.According to the Jarvan Rule of Evidence, there's actually no proof that Kitsun had the most tickets.

[diethx]

1) It's. Not. A. Fucking. Courtroom. Stop treating it as such.

2) No other single person accounted for 5%-6% of all ticket purchases, that they can prove. Kitsun did, they put kit's head on a pike. Rightfully so, 16 tickets is well into re-god-damn-diculous territory.

It's like two siblings in the backseat on a road trip, and simu is the older brother.
simu: "stop touching me"
kitsun: <holds finger right in front of simu's face> "I"M NOT TOUCHING YOU"
simu:

Talk about a post totally filled with nonsense...

[DCSL]

My god, I think this thread has achieved ludicrous speed.

[Donquix]

Talk about a post totally filled with nonsense...

You haven't had a valid post in about 6 pages. Please, the grown ups are talking now. Run along.


My god, I think this thread has achieved ludicrous speed.

http://i.imgur.com/kh1mm6M.jpg

[thefarmer]

Stuff


Did you edit one of your posts?

I could have sworn I saw a post by you saying how you got X number of tickets for you and your wife's account for run 1 and 2.. THEN magically decided to be the concerned citizen and consult with Solomon on how botting/spidering/application use/goatse worked so they could help ban people for run 3.

Which would make you even more of a idiot than I already think you are.


I'm sure neither side's story, simu or kiitsun, is 100% correct. The truth is always in the middle. I say this as someone who has always liked kitsun, and someone who currently refuses to sub because I think Simu are incompetent and don't deserve my money until they make some serious changes in how they do business.

The truth isn't always in the middle. If I say you're a pedophile and you say you're not a pedophile , if your reasoning is correct, that makes you what, only a a part-time pedophile?

[diethx]

You haven't had a valid post in about 6 pages. Please, the grown ups are talking now. Run along.

Oh gee, well when you put it like that..


...you still sound like a fool.

[Latrinsorm]

Or more importantly a woman. A woman driving, pshaw.Look, enough people (for some crazy reason!) think I am a lady already. Let us not encourage that misunderstanding with lettuce.
I am honestly confused about your intentions. I personally think you just like to argue and see your speech made into text.

I could be wrong, maybe you threw some skin in this game and play GS again. Otherwise why are you so obsessed with a game thread?

I can only assume you need to see your posts to feel important or more importantly realize that your only power in life now is to jump in threads that don't concern you at all and swing that rep hammer you hold.I am in turn confused by this post. If I may respond in order...

1. A dear friend of mine once drew a comparison between words meant to be read and words meant to be spoken(/sung), and I certainly fall into the former category - as punctuation alone demonstrates. Given that everyone else who has ever posted on a message board has chosen the same medium, I do not see how this sets me apart for criticism.

2. I do find this topic interesting. Is that not enough justification for commenting? I confess that I do not understand the "skin in [the] game" requirement; surely an objective position would be one that had no such epithelial cells involved, no? As the ghost of a particularly awkward robot, I do strive to be objective.

3. I'm also pretty good at math! So I've got that going for me. If I may briefly expound on the rep comment: I don't give out neg rep; if you have received neg rep from a Latino Storm I blame Eddie Guerrero. I have found three given out in 2013, one of which was to diethx, for whom it's patently obvious I have a thing and must therefore have misclicked.

God be with you 'til we meet again.

[Jarvan]

Trial accounts are free. Once you pay for an account, it is no longer a trial account.

Simu completely overlooked the loophole they left wide open, and are trying to save face by making Kitsun their scapegoat instead of saying, "Sorry, we fucked up and overlooked this."

Hence why a "no accounts less than X days old" is the silver bullet that they've used before but for some reason made a conscious decision to leave that rule out this time around.

No.. the account is FREE while you don't pay for it. trial does not mean free. Trial means trial. The account can still be considered Trial during the first 30 days, IF simu so wishes.

[Jarvan]

If someone got pulled over for texting and driving before texting and driving was outlawed, the cop issues a ticket for texting and driving under the pretense of "You should have known better," what do you think the judge would say about it?

Reckless endangerment.

[Shaps]

This whole thread could be summed up real fast....

There are some greedy motherfuckers that don't care about what anyone else on here says. Get your silvers, get your money, make it rain up in here bitch! And because I have more silvers and money than you, I'ma keep doing it. Capitalism, fuck yea! I'm smarter than you, fuck yea! I took your last cookie, fuck yea!

Damn, cookies... now I'm hungry.

[KmberlynX]

Could it be possible that Simu didn't foresee someone paying over 1k to attend a limited ticket event 16 times...or that they actually thought "most" people would be happy to have one ticket to the event and be done with it? Or maybe they even didn't think that someone wouldn't possibly pay an additional $200+ to convert a number of trial accounts to help them get additional tickets to an event that they already attended/had tickets for 8 times...sure they weren't proactive about this scenario, but hopefully in the future they will be.

I know it blows my mind that people paid for more than one account, at $65+ per ticket, to go or even that they are attending the event ONCE in all three runs let alone buying a ticket to go 16 times. I would have been happy to go to one run with one character so I could try and get some services and be done with it...at this point I will just be happy to go to one of the lite events to do some shopping and be done with it.

[Latrinsorm]

This whole thread could be summed up real fast....

There are some greedy motherfuckers that don't care about what anyone else on here says. Get your silvers, get your money, make it rain up in here bitch! And because I have more silvers and money than you, I'ma keep doing it. Capitalism, fuck yea! I'm smarter than you, fuck yea! I took your last cookie, fuck yea!

Damn, cookies... now I'm hungry.I am offended both by the idea of pelting strippers with coins (misogyny much?) and your failure to reference milkshakes over cookies.

Whatchu done? You can't give it a name: you got to make it rain; make it rain. Yeah.

[Tgo01]

Could it be possible that Simu didn't foresee someone paying over 1k to attend a limited ticket event 16 times...or that they actually thought "most" people would be happy to have one ticket to the event and be done with it?

If Simu is really that clueless about their player base well then...

[Bobmuhthol]

No.. the account is FREE while you don't pay for it. trial does not mean free. Trial means trial. The account can still be considered Trial during the first 30 days, IF simu so wishes.If I bought something and paid the same price as everyone else, but the company decided to give me only a partially functioning thing while everyone else had a fully functioning one, that company would be violating a law that very much already exists and would not require retroactive prosecution.

[Bobmuhthol]

Reckless endangerment.Reckless endangerment is a crime and texting while driving is a civil infraction, but that was a cute try I guess.

[Rethius]

Did someone say strippers and cookies?

Because that is the only thing that registered with my eyes as I reloaded the activity feed.

[JackWhisper]

They climbin in yo websites! Snatchin' yo tickets up!
So yall need to hide yo majors!
Hide yo minors!
Hide yo majors!
Hide yo minors!
Hide yo majors!
Hide yo minors!
And hide yo raffles! Cuz they stealin' erry'thin' out here!

[Stanley Burrell]

It would have been cool if Kitsun was dressed up like half ninja/half Tom Clancy infiltrator and was all like, "Nyah, see?" as he's crawling through the laser chainsaw guarded vents at Whatley's flying mansion and shit.

[Kembal]

To all those saying "well, it's Simu's game and they can decide whatever the hell they want, even if there's no explicit rule authorizing it"....would you want to be on a receiving end of an arbitrary ban because you pissed someone off without knowing it?

Because, in the end, that's what happened here.

[Tisket]

I am honestly confused about your intentions. I personally think you just like to argue and see your speech made into text.

I could be wrong, maybe you threw some skin in this game and play GS again. Otherwise why are you so obsessed with a game thread?

I can only assume you need to see your posts to feel important or more importantly realize that your only power in life now is to jump in threads that don't concern you at all and swing that rep hammer you hold.

I'd be willing to bet that Latrinsorm has never red repped anyone.

[Back]

I'd be willing to bet that Latrinsorm has never red repped anyone.

I'll take that bet. How much?

[Tisket]

hah, you'd have to be the exception.

[crb]

this thread is starting to resemble a nascar race.

[diethx]

this thread is starting to resemble a nascar race.

Yeah, but that means a fabulous crash is inevitable. And that's why you watch Nascar, right?!?!??! IT'S COMING. I hope it's a full-on Inspire meltdown.

[Tgo01]

this thread is starting to resemble a nascar race.

Tisket can be my pit crew and service me all day long.

[Tisket]

I know nothing about racing so just pretend this post is some witty racing-related retort.

[Tgo01]

My Indy 500 brings all the boys to the yard.

.

[Rethius]

Looks like this thread just took a.... LEFT TURN.

(I am so sorry...)

[Tisket]

haha

[JackWhisper]

Okay, someone find a Zoolander Turn Left meme.

[Rethius]

http://i.qkme.me/3rpbot.jpg

[diethx]

In searching for one that was mildly funny, I saw this and really laughed. And I hated Zoolander. But... lol.

http://meality.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/zoolander3.jpg

[JackWhisper]

And there we go.

[JackWhisper]

I think it's hilarious Rethius posted a Can't Turn Left zoolander meme, facing right, but his robots just below, facing left. Robot trollin.

[Rethius]

notarobot

[JackWhisper]

I know it's not a robot, but I don't play Planetside2 or wherever that's from. It aint Blood Eagle, cuz it's not Tribes. So yea. ^^

[Rethius]

W40k Assault Marine, Doom Eagle chapter.

I know not everyone is a nerd like me so it's cool if people aren't familiar with the stuff I am. XD

[Warriorbird]

W40k Assault Marine, Doom Eagle chapter.

I know not everyone is a nerd like me so it's cool if people aren't familiar with the stuff I am. XD

It's okay. There's nerds like you around here.

[Donquix]

http://i.imgur.com/Hyum1FX.gif

[DCSL]

I'd be willing to bet that Latrinsorm has never red repped anyone.

I'm pretty sure he's red repped me in the past.

[Tisket]

That's just crazy talk.

[Nieninque]

She said anyone. You're a nobody

[crb]

Yeah, but that means a fabulous crash is inevitable. And that's why you watch Nascar, right?!?!??! IT'S COMING. I hope it's a full-on Inspire meltdown.

Actually I choose not to partake in that "sport."

But I am aware that all they do is drive around in circles.

[DCSL]

She said anyone. You're a nobody

I think that was the content of the red rep he gave me too. Eric is so cruel. ;_; You guys don't even know.

[Methais]

No.. the account is FREE while you don't pay for it. trial does not mean free. Trial means trial. The account can still be considered Trial during the first 30 days, IF simu so wishes.

Incorrect. When you pay, the trial is over.

Go back a few pages and read Wyrom's post. He never even said that trial accounts couldn't go, he just said they won't be eligible for most services. He stated nowhere that trial accounts weren't able to go.

Do you really think if someone opens a trial account, pays for it (therefore making it no longer a trial account, and I don't buy your argument that Simu can still consider it as one just because they feel like it), gave Simu $75 for a ticket, that they would refuse him services? Even if that were the case, just for argument's sake, trial accounts are still allowed to attend, according to Wyrom's post.


Reckless endangerment.

You're just making this up as you go along now, aren't you?

(PROTIP: People can text and drive without being all over the road, they just have to not be dumb as fuck).

I do think lawmakers could learn something from Simu here though. If they passed a "no funny business" law, they could arrest anybody that disagrees with them and charge them with felony funny business and not have to worry about shit.

Found out someone voted for the other guy? Funny business.

Cop having a bad day and doesn't like your haircut? Funny business.

Bought too many concert tickets and people are in an uproar because the show sold out in seconds? Funny business.

[Latrinsorm]

I'd be willing to bet that Latrinsorm has never red repped anyone.I counted 5 since Jan 2011. Sometimes I just can't contain the pulsing (at times pulsating) masculinity within, and sometimes I... click the wrong button and it turns into a neg rep. :oops:
I'm pretty sure he's red repped me in the past.The very first rep I gave you! Then 52 positive ones, so I think the ratio is pretty good!

[Haldrik]

Shit, crb has attended the event 40 times. Where was this even mentioned as not being allowed?

The real problem here is Simu continuing with this utter useless ticket distribution after the first round of tickets proved to be a total failure. They practically invited people to use scripts and hacks and to get their friends and family to help them buy tickets then they sit back and say "What happened?"

This. If I leave a cookie on the ground my dog is going to eat it.

[Haldrik]

I think the paid trial accounts was a glitch. I think the intent of that comment was all accounts that purchase tickets must be 31 days old.

I think trial accounts were blocked out. He upgraded them to premium if I'm reading correctly. There also used to be a link to upgrade to "normal" from trial. Adding extra character slots might do this too.

[Haldrik]

Its like looking at a monkey trying to figure out how to use scissors. Let me count your fails.

1. Artificial scarcity is setting the overall ticket number at 100. Once you've done that, you do not create any additional scarcity by changing release method unless you change the number of overall tickets. Duh.

2. I was able profit off of this because I recognized I had a marketable skill people would pay for. I am not Simutronics. Simutronics gained no additional revenue by doing tickets in batches instead of the alternative. In fact, you could objectively say they lost revenue due to the time cost of having an employee monitor and release four batches instead of one. Its pennies, but its there.

If Simu had done something like raise prices for run 3, then maybe you'd have a bit of a leg to stand on. That did not happen however.

You forgot mention how having multiple batches of tickets encourage gamesmanship and/or gaming the system, which includes bots/hiring multiple chinese/mexican workers at home depot, better at clicking/better at refreshing etc.

If it was limited to 1 batch people would not be "better" at buying tickets for round 2 and 3. It's common sense that people are going to get "better" at buying tickets for the later rounds, by whatever avenue they choose.

1 round would have been 1000% better. (If we had to use this method of distribution.)

[Haldrik]

It's not on SIMU to write rule book that will cover every contigency. It's on us to not be assholes. It's that simple. This isn't some great debate or an act of congress. Just don't be a dick. That's it.

Kitsun was a dick so he's facing some consequences. Hopefully this will keep people from being dicks at future events.

... How fucking hard it is for Simu to say "1 ticket per PERSON, if you get caught you are fucked." Sounds easy enough if they wanted to go that route.

[crb]

... How fucking hard it is for Simu to say "1 ticket per PERSON, if you get caught you are fucked." Sounds easy enough if they wanted to go that route.

They don't do that because they allow people to have multiple accounts, and each account is treated the same. I'd wager that in today's age there are more people with at least 2 accounts than with just 1 account. They don't want to upset all those people by making a secondary account worth less, despite charging the same monthly fee for it.

[cwolff]

... How fucking hard it is for Simu to say "1 ticket per PERSON, if you get caught you are fucked." Sounds easy enough if they wanted to go that route.

Don't know. You should ask them though.

[Haldrik]

They don't do that because they allow people to have multiple accounts, and each account is treated the same. I'd wager that in today's age there are more people with at least 2 accounts than with just 1 account. They don't want to upset all those people by making a secondary account worth less, despite charging the same monthly fee for it.

True. But they obviously have some number in their head that makes them go "wtf." They could instead use that number. "5 per person for example."

[Buckwheet]

He said Kitsun's actions went against "the spirit" of the game. They include "the spirit" of the game in a couple different documents that talk about acceptable use of the game. Its all subjective.

I can tell you that Ledirth, and I don't disagree, told me that if I entered the coraesine raffle on the character who already won it, and won it again he would be very displeased. So did someone HAVE to tell me that? No. I was joking with Ledirth when I asked him. There was no rule or restriction not letting me enter. It was just sort of an unwritten rule to not be a total asshole.

[Fortybox]

Paying that retarded company for 16 tickets is the real tragedy here.

[Stretch]

This is clearly all Obama's fault.

[Methais]

This is clearly all Obama's fault.

Why you gotta go bringing race into this?