Final Numbers for the Ramadan Bombathon!

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

http://thereligionofpeace.com/

5432


Thanks for coming out!

[Back]

You seem to be afraid of less than 1% of the population.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

You seem to be afraid of less than 1% of the population.

Right to the fear huh? You're such a tard.

[Merala]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

[Gelston]

It irks me when people pull up the crusades. Were any of us alive during that time? I could easily say Germans are the most evil people on the planet, and that was a lot more recently. While I may not agree that Islam is full of terrorists, that crusades comparison is getting a bit old.

[Merala]

So the millions of people don't count because we weren't alive?

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

It irks me when people pull up the crusades. Were any of us alive during that time? I could easily say Germans are the most evil people on the planet, and that was a lot more recently. While I may not agree that Islam is full of terrorists, that crusades comparison is getting a bit old.

It's a cop out. You mean the Crusades don't justify the regular attacks and horrible things done in the name of Islam today?! What about Slavery? White People today are shit heads just like they were then! And I'd like to point out that these attacks during Ramadan were mostly killing OTHER MUSLIMS. So what does that have to do with the Crusades at all anyway?

[Merala]

It's a cop out. You mean the Crusades don't justify the regular attacks and horrible things done in the name of Islam today?! What about Slavery? White People today are shit heads just like they were then! And I'd like to point out that these attacks during Ramadan were mostly killing OTHER MUSLIMS. So what does that have to do with the Crusades at all anyway?

It's not a cop out. It's a valid comparison. All religions have had their nuts. Christians included. Is extremism a problem? Yes. That doesn't make all Muslims bad people, and all the bad press a small percentage of the Muslim population has garnered is undue stigma on the population as a whole.

The Crusades led to the deaths of millions of people. It was wrong then, it's wrong now. Why not focus on those responsible?

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Ooh, Ooh what about the Chinese!

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/maos-great-leap-forward-killed-45-million-in-four-years-2081630.html

[Gelston]

Yep, when I was in Baghdad, Iraq in 2006 during Ramadan, the largest bombing we had was right at the end at a candy store. Sunnis decided to kill Shia, there were no US troops there, it was an attack on Muslims by Muslims.

[Gelston]

It's not a cop out. It's a valid comparison. All religions have had their nuts. Christians included. Is extremism a problem? Yes. That doesn't make all Muslims bad people, and all the bad press a small percentage of the Muslim population has garnered is undue stigma on the population as a whole.

The Crusades led to the deaths of millions of people. It was wrong then, it's wrong now. Why not focus on those responsible?

Well, it isn't a valid comparison. If it was Catholics invading and killing other Christians, then it would be.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

It's not a cop out. It's a valid comparison. All religions have had their nuts. Christians included. Is extremism a problem? Yes. That doesn't make all Muslims bad people, and all the bad press a small percentage of the Muslim population has garnered is undue stigma on the population as a whole.

The Crusades led to the deaths of millions of people. It was wrong then, it's wrong now. Why not focus on those responsible?

Did I come out and say that ALL MUSLIMS ARE BAD PEOPLE? Did I say that?! No, but you're such an apologist already that you jump to that conclusion. I have Muslim friends and I get along with them just fine. Do I agree with their beliefs? Fuck no. But they still have the right to believe what they do. And if I want to point out the Irony of the so-called Religion of Peace, well tough shit, I'm gonna.

[Merala]

I'm pretty sure "Ramadan Bombathon" is a pretty disrespectful and hateful way to describe the situation. Usually when one is insulting to a particular population it doesn't bespeak respect and admiration for it.

ETA:


Well, it isn't a valid comparison. If it was Catholics invading and killing other Christians, then it would be.

Muslims may be killing other Muslims, but they're also killing Jews, Christians, and others. There's been a fight between Israel and Palestine for 50+ years. They're also killing "Christians" here in the U.S.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Yep, when I was in Baghdad, Iraq in 2006 during Ramadan, the largest bombing we had was right at the end at a candy store. Sunnis decided to kill Shia, there were no US troops there, it was an attack on Muslims by Muslims.

And I was in Ramadi, Iraq for all of 2006. And while I agree, the majority of the city didn't want to kill us. Plenty of people tried and failed. Ramadan was particularly ridiculous, but hey why would we ever want to intervene in Red on Red contact? Saves us bullets. But lets push that aside for a second, since not all Muslims are extremists, and simply point out the hundreds of times I saw women treated like shit and it's totally cool. Christianity at least underwent a reformation at some point. You know, "Love Thy Neighbor," and all that happy horseshit. Whereas, Muslims are still killing each other in droves.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

I'm pretty sure "Ramadan Bombathon" is a pretty disrespectful and hateful way to describe the situation. Usually when one is insulting to a particular population it doesn't bespeak respect and admiration for it.

What was your point again?

[Gelston]

It is something that goes with being in the military during a time of war. You think Vietnam vets have good things to say about the Tet holiday? You may not understand, you may even find it offensive, but honestly, that doesn't really matter.

[Gelston]

And I was in Ramadi, Iraq for all of 2006. And while I agree, the majority of the city didn't want to kill us. Plenty of people tried and failed. Ramadan was particularly ridiculous, but hey why would we ever want to intervene in Red on Red contact? Saves us bullets. But lets push that aside for a second, since not all Muslims are extremists, and simply point out the hundreds of times I saw women treated like shit and it's totally cool. Christianity at least underwent a reformation at some point. You know, "Love Thy Neighbor," and all that happy horseshit. Whereas, Muslims are still killing each other in droves.

Yep, we generally just popped up for the aftermath. I'm not going to jump in the middle of those dudes and, luckily, my command felt the same way.

[Rethius]

I take it the OP doesn't know the difference between 'Muslim' and 'extremist'.

[Gelston]

I take it the OP doesn't know the difference between 'Muslim' and 'extremist'.

He probably knows the difference way better than you.

[Rethius]

He probably knows the difference way better than you.

Possibly. I suppose I'd have to sit down and hammer out a discussion but I think somewhere along the lines one of us would lose interest.

[Gelston]

It's not a cop out. It's a valid comparison. All religions have had their nuts. Christians included. Is extremism a problem? Yes. That doesn't make all Muslims bad people, and all the bad press a small percentage of the Muslim population has garnered is undue stigma on the population as a whole.

The Crusades led to the deaths of millions of people. It was wrong then, it's wrong now. Why not focus on those responsible?

Where are you getting the millions estimate from, btw? The First Crusades was the bloodiest, by far, and it didn't break past the tens of thousands... Most of that being when the Franks slaughtered the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

[Delias]

I don't think that it's fair to count bombings without also counting shootings. White christians generally seem to prefer guns to bombs, for some reason. No real compunction about killing innocents, so maybe it is just a lack of explosives related education? No idea.

[Gelston]

I think the point of it is, is that Christians generally have reasons other than religion to kill each other.

[Warriorbird]

I think the point of it is, is that Christians generally have reasons other than religion to kill each other.

It doesn't mean Christians aren't up to killing each other for hundreds of years over church doctrine.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00951/omagh-bomb-460b_951239c.jpg

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

It gets better...

Statement by the President on the Occasion of Eid al-Fitr
Michelle and I send our warmest greetings to Muslims celebrating Eid al-Fitr here in the United States and around the world. During the past month, Muslims have honored their faith through prayer and service, fasting and time spent with loved ones. At this year’s White House Iftar, I was proud to spend time with some of the many American Muslims whose contributions enrich our democracy and strengthen our economy. Many of us have had the opportunity to break fast with our Muslim friends and colleagues—a tradition that reminds us to be grateful for our blessings and to show compassion to the less fortunate among us, including millions of Syrians who spent Ramadan displaced from their homes, their families, and their loved ones. To help the many Syrians in need this Eid al-Fitr, the United States is providing an additional $195 million in food aid and other humanitarian aid, bringing our humanitarian contribution to the Syrian people to over $1 billion since the crisis began. For millions of Americans, Eid is part of a great tapestry of America’s many traditions, and I wish all Muslims a blessed and joyful celebration. Eid Mubarak.


http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/08/07/statement-president-occasion-eid-al-fitr

[Latrinsorm]

Well, it isn't a valid comparison. If it was Catholics invading and killing other Christians, then it would be.As you might expect from a barbarian invasion, the Frankish knights weren't super judicious about whom they invaded and killed. Jerusalem was populated by Christians, Jews, and Muslims, and the Crusaders killed Christians, Jews, Muslims. While every Crusade had some people through ignorance or laziness decide to start invading when they were about 50 miles from home, the Fourth Crusade in particular famously decided "why go all the way to the Middle East when we could stop here and pillage the Byzantine Empire?" and did just that.
I think the point of it is, is that Christians generally have reasons other than religion to kill each other.You are being very credulous if you buy into the idea that two people will live happily next to each other until one day a Koran opens itself and bellows that they should kill each other and then they do. The famous Family Guy scene wasn't mocking organized religion, it was mocking the comically anti organized religion people.
And if I want to point out the Irony of the so-called Religion of Peace, well tough shit, I'm gonna.You were in the Armed Forces, and it was part of your ethos not to murder innocent people.
Maj. Nidal Hassan was in the Armed Forces, and murdered many innocent people.
Does that suggest an irony in your ethos? Or does that suggest that two people being of the same group do not necessarily represent each other, or the group as a whole?
But lets push that aside for a second, since not all Muslims are extremists, and simply point out the hundreds of times I saw women treated like shit and it's totally cool. Christianity at least underwent a reformation at some point. You know, "Love Thy Neighbor," and all that happy horseshit. Whereas, Muslims are still killing each other in droves.There have been multiple Muslim reformations, progressive and fundamentalist, as is the case for every human institution of similar lifespan.

As an American, I would urge you to be extremely careful looking down on others for their treatment of women.

[Gelston]

Latrin, there are no credible sources saying the slaughter of Jerusalem included Christians that lived there. Infact, the Christians and Jews were dispelled from Jerusalem when the Crusade was launched out of fears that they would help the Crusaders.

You are also incorrect on the sacking of Constantinople. That occurred because the Roman Emperor basically stopped supporting them once they arrived. They were camping around outside the city and began to get hungry, when he told them to leave, they said no and took the city. (PS, Constantinople is considered in the Middle East, although the term did not yet exist then)

[Latrinsorm]

Latrin, there are no credible sources saying the slaughter of Jerusalem included Christians that lived there. Infact, the Christians and Jews were dispelled from Jerusalem when the Crusade was launched out of fears that they would help the Crusaders.I was mistakenly remembering the betrayal by an Armenian Christian which actually occurred at Antioch. Certainly we agree that Christians and Muslims were slaughtered alike there, because in a hilariously dark way the Crusaders were much like many Americans today in assuming that Muslim = brown person. I agree that Christians were expelled from Jerusalem, but I find much evidence that Jews fought alongside Muslims in defense of it. Do you have a particular source in mind regarding their dispersal?
You are also incorrect on the sacking of Constantinople. That occurred because the Roman Emperor basically stopped supporting them once they arrived. They were camping around outside the city and began to get hungry, when he told them to leave, they said no and took the city. (PS, Constantinople is considered in the Middle East, although the term did not yet exist then)I don't personally consider Turkey to be in the Middle East but that's neither here nor there, as you didn't request evidence of Catholics invading Europeans. Constantinople was absolutely Christian at the time of the Fourth Crusade, therefore Catholics absolutely invaded other Christians.

Hungry people don't stay hungry for long, that is true. Why is it that in cross-on-cross crime you are willing to consider this motivation, but not moon-on-moon? Certainly you agree that terrorist foot soldiers tend to be poor. Certainly you agree that foot soldiers were as likely to shoot ad majorem dei gloriam as allahu akbar. Why is one superficially religious motivation more compelling than the other?

[Gelston]

?I don't personally consider Turkey to be in the Middle East

That is irrelevant. It is.

And nit wasn't a "cross-on-cross" crime. It was hungry people wanting food. Their motivations were not that they were doing it in the name of God and the Church.

[Latrinsorm]

Let me know when you're ready to address any of the points I didn't pre-emptively dismiss, BRO.

[Back]

I don't think that it's fair to count bombings without also counting shootings. White christians generally seem to prefer guns to bombs, for some reason. No real compunction about killing innocents, so maybe it is just a lack of explosives related education? No idea.

Saw a bumper sticker the other day that was worrying. "Pro Life. Pro God. Pro Guns." That, to me, is filled with so much hypocracy I don't know where to start. Obviously this peron has skipped Jesus and went straight to the top!

[Candor]

Saw a bumper sticker the other day that was worrying. "Pro Life. Pro God. Pro Guns." That, to me, is filled with so much hypocracy I don't know where to start. Obviously this peron has skipped Jesus and went straight to the top!

Ever see the bumper sticker that says: "Sure you can have my guns, bullets first!"?

Now imagine seeing that bumper sticker on the right side of a truck, and on the left side is a big bumper sticker of the Confederate flag.

There's a lot of crazies out there.

[Shaps]

I can not wait to retire and never have to think about the Middle East again. Been there, done that, and want to just forget that I've spent near 20 years worrying about their shit. Typically I'm a news junkie and love discussing issues like this, but that part of the world, it's a waste of time. Just let them do what they'll do to each other; keep it from spreading outside the borders; and call it a day. Plenty of other countries in the world we can help. I'm being slightly sarcastic, I understand all of the geo-political, world power, controlling interests blah blah blah. I will just be happy when I no longer have to worry about it from a personal standpoint.

Latrin, one comment you made "As an American, I would urge you to be extremely careful looking down on others for their treatment of women." - is really absurd (and I normally like your commentary). The US and the Middle East have nothing in common when it comes to this. I hate hearing pundits try and use this argument. That shit is absurd. Even in our worst days, there was no comparison. The way women are treated over there is seriously disturbing, and if we tried imposing that societal structure on women in the US you would see all out war. But don't compare the issues women in the US have with anything that many women in that part of the world live through. That is only demeaning the women that have to live through true repression and fear. I personally don't care how they choose to live. That is their society, and I think it is their responsibility to change, not ours to make them.

As our country has formed, there are many horrible acts and periods. We are not immune from criticism. But one thing at our core, even with all of our faults, is the continued desire to improve ourselves and the life of everyone in our country. We should not be scorned for what we did... we should be praised for how quickly (yes quickly, when you consider what we've done in under 300 years, while the rest of the world had the past 5,000 to try and get to where we are), we have adapted and tried to correct those injustices. This goes for our treatment of women, cultures, races, religions and everything else. We are still not perfect, and there are many crazy people in the US, but we strive to be just.... I could just be to hopeful and missing something though /sigh.

At the end of the day though, there will never be perfect harmony. There will always be a lower and upper class. Not everyone is the same or equal. People will kill people and others will kill them. Women and men are different. Some peoples kids are actually ugly, not cute like we always tell them. Dogs are better pets than cats. Etc, etc, etc.....

Just love your family and your neighbors, and if we all do that.... then a whole lot of us can enjoy wonderful lives.

[4a6c1]

http://thereligionofpeace.com/

5432


Thanks for coming out!

Numbers are low. I don't think that chart is referencing anything in South East Asia. In fact I'm certain this is absent everything in the Pradesh and Indonesia as the numbers would be doubled.

That said, here are a few things that might be useful to you.

Military/Veteran Crisis Line - 1-800-273-TALK (8255) - Press 1 or text 838255 or click here for 24/7 Confidential online support from a caring, qualified VA professional

Military One Source - 1-800-342-9647

The Defense Center of Excellence (DCoE) - 1-866-966-1020

Wounded Soldier and Family Hotline - 1-800-984-8523

DStressLine for Marines, attached Sailors, and families when it's needed most - 1-877-476-7734.

Vets4Warriors - 1-855-838-8255

CombatStress.org UK 24/7 Helpline 0800 138 1619

[Latrinsorm]

I can not wait to retire and never have to think about the Middle East again. Been there, done that, and want to just forget that I've spent near 20 years worrying about their shit. Typically I'm a news junkie and love discussing issues like this, but that part of the world, it's a waste of time. Just let them do what they'll do to each other; keep it from spreading outside the borders; and call it a day. Plenty of other countries in the world we can help. I'm being slightly sarcastic, I understand all of the geo-political, world power, controlling interests blah blah blah. I will just be happy when I no longer have to worry about it from a personal standpoint.

Latrin, one comment you made "As an American, I would urge you to be extremely careful looking down on others for their treatment of women." - is really absurd (and I normally like your commentary). The US and the Middle East have nothing in common when it comes to this. I hate hearing pundits try and use this argument. That shit is absurd. Even in our worst days, there was no comparison. The way women are treated over there is seriously disturbing, and if we tried imposing that societal structure on women in the US you would see all out war. But don't compare the issues women in the US have with anything that many women in that part of the world live through. That is only demeaning the women that have to live through true repression and fear. I personally don't care how they choose to live. That is their society, and I think it is their responsibility to change, not ours to make them.Thanks! But I would say three things to that:
1. The Middle East is not homogeneous: Saudi Arabia, Israel, (arguably) Turkey.
2. The US is not homogeneous: New York City, Nebraska, (inarguably) Quebec.
3. I did not say that American women had it just as bad as Middle Eastern women, but advised against throwing stones from glass houses.
As our country has formed, there are many horrible acts and periods. We are not immune from criticism. But one thing at our core, even with all of our faults, is the continued desire to improve ourselves and the life of everyone in our country. We should not be scorned for what we did... we should be praised for how quickly (yes quickly, when you consider what we've done in under 300 years, while the rest of the world had the past 5,000 to try and get to where we are), we have adapted and tried to correct those injustices. This goes for our treatment of women, cultures, races, religions and everything else. We are still not perfect, and there are many crazy people in the US, but we strive to be just.... I could just be to hopeful and missing something though /sigh.This is kind of what I mean, though. We're not the best at everything, either in the present day or in history, or even in American history. There are plenty of people on this very site who don't embrace your progressiveness, and praise themselves for doing so. Societies don't follow straight lines, but are subject to ebbs and flows from every direction. It is only by constant effort that progress is obtained and maintained.
At the end of the day though, there will never be perfect harmony. There will always be a lower and upper class. Not everyone is the same or equal. People will kill people and others will kill them. Women and men are different. Some peoples kids are actually ugly, not cute like we always tell them. Dogs are better pets than cats. Etc, etc, etc.....

Just love your family and your neighbors, and if we all do that.... then a whole lot of us can enjoy wonderful lives.I think there's a lot to be said for using the absolute status of the lower class as a benchmark rather than the relative division between upper and lower classes. By one metric (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient) the United States has as unequal an income distribution as the South Sudan and the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and yet we enjoy quite a bit more domestic peace than them. Isn't it plausible that our poor having 40-100x the income of their poor plays a key factor? Desperate people do desperate things, but people with the reasonable expectation of a roof over their head and a full stomach don't have a lot to be desperate about. (To be fair religion might play a role too: both of those countries are significantly more Christian than we are.)

[4a6c1]

Thanks! But I would say three things to that:
1. The Middle East is not homogeneous: Saudi Arabia, Israel, (arguably) Turkey.

Don't forget Armenia! The BEST middle eastern country and home to some of the oldest Christian archaeological sites. Majority Christian population squished up against Iran, Azerblahblahblahstan and Georgia. I'm consistently suprised it's still on the map. :|

[Shaps]

Team Armenia!

Fuck yea!

[4a6c1]

Հայաստանի հավաքականի !!

այո այո !!

[Latrinsorm]

Don't forget Armenia!Forget what? B|