Who was it?

[Vagabondbard]

We have determined that a player was using some sort of artificial means to successfully purchase multiple tickets. As we said, that's absolutely not acceptable.

The tickets that were made available tonight were tickets that were removed from that player's possession. In addition, the player in question also attempted to purchase one of the tickets tonight, but we took care of that. The player has had their purchase price refunded. Any further action that is or isn't taken is something that's not up for public discussion.

We're looking into fair and balanced options to add into the Box Office and ticket purchase process to prevent this from happening in the future. It probably won't be something we use for every event, but instead will be something we can toggle and use in any case where there is a high demand and a limited number of tickets.

We hope those of you who legitimately purchased tickets to RtCF will enjoy the event. We certainly understand that this wasn't the most popular method of handling tickets, so we'll keep that in mind for future events.


Solomon

Who?!! Someone fess up.
GBB

[Ardwen]

I hear it was Hoy's hedgehog, Brutus was getting lonely without Hoy

[Jarvan]

Re: Ticket nabbing software on 07/01/2013 06:43 PM EDT
3840



<<So what you are really saying is...there's an app for that!>>

If there is and we detect anyone using something like that to brute force the box office, said person(s) would have a permanent, one way ticket to the void.



Solomon


So.. we taking bets on if they got the ticket to the void or not?

[Ardwen]

they have 7 accts, I'd bet no

[senorgordoburro]

I blame Helsfeld

[Jarvan]

they have 7 accts, I'd bet no

Of course not, but we still have to remind Solomon that he is a liar.

[Jhynnifer]

Of course not, but we still have to remind Solomon that he is a liar.

he took the tickets back and re released them into the game, perhaps we should pick our battles?

[tyrant-201]

So.. we taking bets on if they got the ticket to the void or not?

I imagine it depends on how much water said person draws. Considering they had 7 accounts, I imagine they'll get the equivalent of a slap on the wrist.

[Tenlaar]

he took the tickets back and re released them into the game, perhaps we should pick our battles?

Staff sticking to their word is a pretty good battle to pick.

[Jarvan]

he took the tickets back and re released them into the game, perhaps we should pick our battles?

I honestly don't have anything to say to this, it's that sad of a comment.


I imagine it depends on how much water said person draws. Considering they had 7 accounts, I imagine they'll get the equivalent of a slap on the wrist.

I think it generally has more to do with who the people are, and not the number of accounts. Hell, the fact that the person tried to get a ticket tonight just shows that they didn't ban the accounts.

That being said, if pure number of accounts changes a bannable offense to a slap on the wrist, I am going to open up 5 more accounts and do something bad just to see.

[tyrant-201]

Staff sticking to their word is a pretty good battle to pick.

Unfortunately there is no rule in Policy that says Simu staff have to stick by their word.

[Jhynnifer]

Staff sticking to their word is a pretty good battle to pick.

Taking back the tickets and ensuring that person can't attend is more than enough retribution for me, I don't see the necessity to ban someone and lose seven accounts worth of subscriptions. We complained, they researched and dealt with the situation. I'd call that a win.

[Jarvan]

Unfortunately there is no rule in Policy that says Simu staff have to stick by their word.

There was also no rule against using third party software to get tickets to an event until Solomon made that statement. So it's a moot point.

[Tenlaar]

We complained, they researched and dealt with the situation. I'd call that a win.

I'd call it telling everybody that they, too, can try this method for future events since all they have to worry about is getting the tickets taken.

[Tgo01]

Staff sticking to their word is a pretty good battle to pick.

Yeah really. The real world equivalent of this would be to catch someone shoplifting then say "I'm sorry sir but we'll have to take these items back" then let the guy walk out of the store as if nothing happened.

If there is no real punishment (other than the loss of something you shouldn't have had to begin with) then there is really nothing to discourage this type of behavior.

[Jarvan]

I'd call it telling everybody that they, too, can try this method for future events since all they have to worry about is getting the tickets taken.

Unless you are someone that the Staff likes and doesn't want to ban, which is much more likely they just someone with 7 accounts. Since I doubt it was 7 accounts active for any period of time.

[Jarvan]

Yeah really. The real world equivalent of this would be to catch someone shoplifting then say "I'm sorry sir but we'll have to take these items back" then let the guy walk out of the store as if nothing happened.

If there is no real punishment (other than the lose of something you shouldn't have had to begin with) then there is really nothing to discourage this type of behavior.

Little closer would be a member of a Golf club caught stealing the silverware, then escorted out, but told "Don't forget to be here next week for the tourney!"

[Drew]

Yeah really. The real world equivalent of this would be to catch someone shoplifting then say "I'm sorry sir but we'll have to take these items back" then let the guy walk out of the store as if nothing happened.

If there is no real punishment (other than the lose of something you shouldn't have had to begin with) then there is really nothing to discourage this type of behavior.

Except you know shoplifting is illegal.

[Tgo01]

Except you know shoplifting is illegal.

The use of this program was against the rules, same concept.

[Jarvan]

Except you know shoplifting is illegal.

Since after day one of run 2 ticket sales, Solomon posted that this would be a bannable offense.. we can safely say they knew it was "illegal" as well.

[Ysamine]

I wonder how many tickets this person scored for the second run, since it seems these were returned from the third run.

[Jhynnifer]

lol People have no sack today...

"You're an idiot. A ban is in order for whoever did it and tried to do it again with the re-release. And would with future events."

I never said a ban wasn't in order. I said I felt the issue was dealt with and that I didn't feel a ban was necessary. I still don't. This program was created due to a poorly thought out and even more poorly executed ticketing system. This is a first for simutronics and they'll have to create policy around it. Personally, I don't think a permaban is in anyone's best interests. You want to be angry because someone was doing this? Sure, go ahead. Personally, I'm never a huge fan of something that causes even more people to quit playing and dropping out of an already small population.

[Ardwen]

Dont think a perma-ban was mentioned, and I might have agreed with you on the no band up until the same person went and attempted to get one of the tickets back.

[Jarvan]

Wasn't me Jhynn.. everyone knows I use the wrong You're.

[Bobmuhthol]

Since after day one of run 2 ticket sales, Solomon posted that this would be a bannable offense.. we can safely say they knew it was "illegal" as well.I never read the forums when I played, so let's not safely say anything of the sort.

[Jhynnifer]

Dont think a perma-ban was mentioned, and I might have agreed with you on the no band up until the same person went and attempted to get one of the tickets back.

Well a one-way ticket to the void sounds like a perma-ban to me.

[Jarvan]

I never read the forums when I played, so let's not safely say anything of the sort.

Not knowing a law doesn't make you unable to be arrested for it.

[Bobmuhthol]

Not knowing a law doesn't make you unable to be arrested for it.Totally fucking irrelevant and inconsistent with your previous argument.

[JackWhisper]

Meh, of who I know that actually wants to go to this thing, and got tickets, most were vocal with their happiness about it.

That being said, everyone knows of only two people who actively scored SEVERAL tickets to each event.

If you want the person, look for the one that is NOT there at the next run. Because you all know, and I know, that buying a ticket equals profit, no matter how you dice it. They wouldn't pass up a chance to go unless forced to stay behind. Simple as that.

[tyrant-201]

Meh, of who I know that actually wants to go to this thing, and got tickets, most were vocal with their happiness about it.

That being said, everyone knows of only two people who actively scored SEVERAL tickets to each event.

If you want the person, look for the one that is NOT there at the next run. Because you all know, and I know, that buying a ticket equals profit, no matter how you dice it. They wouldn't pass up a chance to go unless forced to stay behind. Simple as that.

Problem is at this point it's hard to tell who's who. When you have that many accounts, I imagine you run the well known ones first or second. By now, if you're running - what was it 7? Most of them have got to be unknowns

[JackWhisper]

That is a very distinct possibility. But once you claim you scored 5+ tickets to a run, everyone looks at a level 1 alt with a leery glance. Or are known on alts that you got that many. I've got the majority of people that got walked around for frontier days, or on shop-surfing item unloading for these people, all highlighted.

By the time RTCF comes around, my friend's going to shoot me a room info and I'm going to point out who isn't a legitimate player, that I can tell. But that's because he refuses to buy a major from them. Some people simply don't care because they're already there. And that's very understandable.

[Jarvan]

Totally fucking irrelevant and inconsistent with your previous argument.

Never said I was consistent. That being said, just cause you don't read the forums, doesn't mean dick. So shove it up your ass.

[Ysamine]

I think we can safely assume it wasn't me. I never did get a ticket.

[Jhynnifer]

By the time RTCF comes around, my friend's going to shoot me a room info and I'm going to point out who isn't a legitimate player, that I can tell. But that's because he refuses to buy a major from them. Some people simply don't care because they're already there. And that's very understandable.

Meh, for my second account I could have brought in my well-known characters, instead I chose to bring one that would actually benefit from something like the feature pavilion. I'm sure one or two other people had the same idea.

[JackWhisper]

You didn't use a brute force 60x page refresh software program to get seven tickets. Everyone is okay with you scoring it legitimately. Everyone is not okay with 18 of the people at RTCF2 being 2 people.

[Jace Solo]

Fleurs.

[Vagabondbard]

Anyone have a capture of the character that were going? would be all sleuthy to compare contrast.

GBB

[JackWhisper]

Note to self: If the new Tsin goes on any accounts, everyone tackle him.

Tsin offers Jankus a set of shaalk full plate.
Tsin says crazily, "Durr. Preez giev me teh ubar paddinz"
Jankus accepts a set of shaalk full plate.
Jankus says matter-of-factedly, "111mil."
Tsin says sadly, "No I canno affordzez."
Jankus offers Tsin a set of vultite full plate.
Tsin accepts a set of vultite full plate.

RTCF is then flooded by tears of sadness.

[Jeril]

Fleurs.

It wasn't Fleurs, don't be an idiot.

[JackWhisper]

Fleurs ran 3, then 4, and has said they got 3 for this one.

I daresay that looks a LITTLE shady, but seems possible.

[JackWhisper]

And anyways, you'd know if it was Fleurs because you'd walk in and, since they got caught, you wouldn't see everyone walkin around sporting THOSE GOD DAMNED TOTE BAGS. :break:

[Tgo01]

I doubt it was Fleurs, she would be all over the officials complaining.

[JackWhisper]

Fleurs has arrived.
Fleurs swings a double-handled canvas tote bag stitched with wildflowers over one shoulder.
Fleurs pushes her silver-rimmed black traveler spectacles to the top of her head.
Fleurs snaps her fingers at Kenstrom!
Fleurs shrilly exclaims, "You better be givin me my tickets!"

...

For some reason that seems very apropos, sorry.

[Buckwheet]

Thanks for the confidence in my leet hacking skills folks. It wasn't me. I was at work from 6:15pm CST until now.

[JackWhisper]

Consensus is Fleurs with tote bag hilarity!

[senorgordoburro]

Was your automated ticket buying program home alone buying tickets though?

[Aluvius]

I doubt it was Fleurs, she would be all over the officials complaining.

This, holy fuck this .. she would be exactly that tone deaf to complain about getting caught hacking. So yeah, definitely not Fleurs. Great catch. :)

[Moonwitch]

Just check the group waiting by the arch entrance. You'll find the Fleurs gang.

[RSR]

If they gave her a ban, she wouldn't be able to complain now would she?

And for the first time I can recall, the ticket batches are showing as anonymous now.

[Drew]

Since after day one of run 2 ticket sales, Solomon posted that this would be a bannable offense.. we can safely say they knew it was "illegal" as well.

I don't read the officials. Requiring players to read every post on your forums to know what is and isn't allowed probably isn't a workable policy.

[Archigeek]

The likely first guess is the guy who came on the boards and said he wrote a program to do so. That said, that seems just a little too obvious. My second thought was that it could be someone who was buying tickets for other people at 10m a pop. But if 7 different people had lost their slots and were out 10m each... I think we'd have heard about it by now. So who knows? I'm sure it will come out before too long.

[Rethius]

So they crack down on someone and the worst they do is revoke the tickets?

How... very anti-climactic and ineffective.

[Palcron]

Especially considering he lost 7 tickets, and then tried to buy one back when they were re-released. If not for the fact that it's Simu, you would have expected more than "we gave him his money back and put the tickets back up for sale... and when he tried to buy another, we didn't let him. You're welcome, and enjoy the festival."

[Geijon Khyree]

All will be revealed!

[Rethius]

Especially considering he lost 7 tickets, and then tried to buy one back when they were re-released. If not for the fact that it's Simu, you would have expected more than "we gave him his money back and put the tickets back up for sale... and when he tried to buy another, we didn't let him. You're welcome, and enjoy the festival."

I want to know who the people sitting around the table were that spoke up and went "Naaaah. Don't ban him. Just revoke the tickets and don't let him buy another. Problem solved." Because I want to fit them for helmets, drool guards, and mittens.

[Jhynnifer]

"And I'd say, you don't need to be such a fucking suck up when the GMs aren't watching. Save it for the game."

LOL at this. I've spoken vocally and openly about issues I have with Simutronics. I'm not patting them on the head and saying good job, I simply don't see a long-term benefit in banning accounts. I'm sorry I don't share the popular opinion, but at least I have the balls to voice it instead of leaving snarky little neg reps.

[Tisket]

I never read the forums when I played, so let's not safely say anything of the sort.

I play currently and I've never read the officials either. I find them terribly designed and not user friendly at all.

[Tisket]

IT WAS ME!!!

(fyi)

[Rethius]

"And I'd say, you don't need to be such a fucking suck up when the GMs aren't watching. Save it for the game."

LOL at this. I've spoken vocally and openly about issues I have with Simutronics. I'm not patting them on the head and saying good job, I simply don't see a long-term benefit in banning accounts. I'm sorry I don't share the popular opinion, but at least I have the balls to voice it instead of leaving snarky little neg reps.

The longevity of any successful game is not threatened by who is eliminated for abusing a system. Instead, it is threatened by what the people behind the game are willing to excuse.

If this person had done this on a modern mmo, he'd be long gone. Heck, even a suspension of his IP for a month would have sent the message across.

[Tgo01]

IT WAS ME!!!

(fyi)

GET HER!

[Tisket]

GET HER!

Finally, someone takes me seriously! My life is complete.

[Tgo01]

Finally, someone takes me seriously! My life is complete.

Oh, wait, this isn't the line for the gang bang?

[Tisket]

haha

[Rethius]

Oh, wait, this isn't the line for the gang bang?

Gang bang? I thought this was for the bukkake!

[Jhynnifer]

The longevity of any successful game is not threatened by who is eliminated for abusing a system. Instead, it is threatened by what the people behind the game are willing to excuse.

If this person had done this on a modern mmo, he'd be long gone. Heck, even a suspension of his IP for a month would have sent the message across.

But see, you're assuming that whoever did this owned all seven accounts. What if one of those seven belonged to someone who was just so tired of failing at getting a ticket and resorted to paying someone upwards of $140? They should get a permanent ban because they made a poor decision out of desperation or frustration? I just don't agree.

[Rethius]

But see, you're assuming that whoever did this owned all seven accounts. What if one of those seven belonged to someone who was just so tired of failing at getting a ticket and resorted to paying someone upwards of $140? They should get a permanent ban because they made a poor decision out of desperation or frustration? I just don't agree.

But it's still abuse. You aren't allowed (I would assume) to share your information. Is it poor planning to limit tickets? Yes. Should I abuse a system that is there to get an edge? No.

Frustration does not excuse what was done. On any level.

[Jhynnifer]

But it's still abuse. You aren't allowed (I would assume) to share your information. Is it poor planning to limit tickets? Yes. Should I abuse a system that is there to get an edge? No.

Frustration does not excuse what was done. On any level.

I can understand where you're coming from, I just can't bring myself to agree with it.

[Rethius]

I can understand where you're coming from, I just can't bring myself to agree with it.

I'm not trying to get you to agree, I'm simply trying to understand the loophole in logic. Sorry if that sounds mean but... y'know there it is.

[Tgo01]

Jhynnifer did it, on the Simu website, with her credit card.

[Rethius]

So sure it was Colonel Mustard. God! Last time I bet on a board game.

[Jhynnifer]

Jhynnifer did it, on the Simu website, with her credit card.


I am guilty it was me!

And I don't consider it a loophole in logic, if anything I'm just not willing to draw a hard line over it.

[tyrant-201]

I am guilty it was me!

And I don't consider it a loophole in logic, if anything I'm just not willing to draw a hard line over it.

Don't take this the wrong way - I consider you a friend and all, but if you were one of the people who didn't get to go because of 5-10 people like person who got busted... would you consider drawing a hard line over it?

[Rethius]

I'm just not willing to draw a hard line over it.

You can't draw a hard line over it but you have the balls to voice it. Got it.

Gonna go... over here...

[Jhynnifer]

You can't draw a hard line over it but you have the balls to voice it. Got it.

Gonna go... over here...

No, I have the balls to voice my opinion instead of neg repping people because they don't agree with me. I don't see how what that has to do with choosing not to consider this a purely black and white argument.

[Rethius]

No, I have the balls to voice my opinion instead of neg repping people because they don't agree with me. I don't see how what that has to do with choosing not to consider this a purely black and white argument.

Okay, so, you have the balls to voice your opinion publicly. Which doesn't require balls at all, but rather an opinion and (to some extent) an audience that pays attention. I can't understand how voicing an opinion that is unpopular and receiving flak for it suddenly grants you balls but that's where we are.

Even though it clearly is a black and white argument. There's no grey area in abuse of a system for whatever reason. Heck, there's hardly a white area. You can't justify the actions of the individual involved. Nobody can. Probably not even that guy.

[Donquix]

No, I have the balls to voice my opinion instead of neg repping people because they don't agree with me. I don't see how what that has to do with choosing not to consider this a purely black and white argument.

So think about it in terms of something else that's a potential, punishable offense to the game that is rather analogous. AFK scripting.

What if the only punishment for AFK scripting was you lost the exp you had waiting to be absorbed? That is basically what they did here.

Would that be an effective deterrent from AFK scripting? Points about "it could be other people's accounts" aren't really valid. For one, billing information generally doesn't lie and I'm assuming (hoping) they have logon locations historically going back a significant enough amount of time to rule that out. Further, even if they were other persons' accounts honestly they are just as accountable. What are you going to do, give someone your account info to login and pay them because they MIGHT get a ticket? Clearly they would know what was going on. "I thought I was really buying a dime bag of sugar" is not a valid defense.

I get what you're saying. A permanent ban would certainly be a bit much. But it needs to be something more than "aha! caught you! you little scamp, run along now"

[JackWhisper]

I read this entire thread repeatedly and I have one thing to add into this. I don't mean to select one of Jhynnifer's statements in this, but I've gotta comment.

Whatever, I've been playin this game almost two decades, I STILL don't know how to quote people. I'm an idiot..

"What if one of those seven belonged to someone who was just so tired of failing at getting a ticket and resorted to paying someone upwards of $140? They should get a permanent ban because they made a poor decision out of desperation or frustration? I just don't agree." <----This.

You're a known thief. I'm a struggling businessman. I pay you to rob the competing store across the street from me.
You're a known ticket buyer. I'm a struggling attendee. I pay you to rob the ticket line using 3rd party software.

It's illegal. Simple as that. There either should be a perma ban handed out, or they should be publicly penalized, because as much as Simu would like to act like they're the shiznit..they aren't. The players in a niche community like this make and break who plays happy and who doesn't. It's the same concept as not pissing off clerics or empaths. If Simu outed a caught abuser about abuse, the entire batch of people who TRIED and maybe DIDN'T succeed in getting a ticket, would be pissed at them, and that person then would have to earn their way back into the good graces of the community. It's one thing to get a couple tickets clicking. Getting a dozen tickets to one run? Or a dozen tickets among a few accounts across all 3 runs? You must consider the ramification of how people respond to this sort of abuse. Some may shrug their shoulders, but I can guarantee the vast majority shrugging...GOT a ticket. The rest are pissed because they didn't get a fair shake and couldn't beat a 60Rm Refresh 0.13 response time. Just saying.

I'd go more for ostracizing. But that's just me.

[Tgo01]

Yeah I don't really buy the someone elses account theory either. If someone is going around town griefing everyone can they get out of any punishment by claiming they aren't the owners of the account?

[Jarvan]

Yeah I don't really buy the someone elses account theory either. If someone is going around town griefing everyone can they get out of any punishment by claiming they aren't the owners of the account?

Even more to the point.. if they were selling tickets and using a program to acquire them, we also would have heard about this by now on the PC. Someone would have jumped up and said "so and so got me a ticket, and it got taken away"

There is no way multiple people would have stayed quiet, or will stay quiet about something like that. ALSO, if Simu couldn't tell the difference between the main user and a person using the account to get tickets, then there is something wrong. That being said, if I let you borrow my account to train my char for me while I am busy working, and you get caught afk scripting.. well, lets just say you should never share account info huh.

[Gelston]

I don't think they should have been banned, myself. The tickets removed and resold yes and perhaps not being allowed to purchase tickets for the next few events. It just seems silly to me though, STOP GIVING ME MONEY THAT FAST OR I WILL BAN YOU.

[Jarvan]

I don't think they should have been banned, myself. The tickets removed and resold yes and perhaps not being allowed to purchase tickets for the next few events. It just seems silly to me though, STOP GIVING ME MONEY THAT FAST OR I WILL BAN YOU.

Prob shouldn't ban people for AFK scripting in prime or plat either really. Just take the exp away or the loot. No reason to punish people for doing something wrong. We all make mistakes after all.

While we are at it, maybe we should let the guy that kidnapped 3 women for 10 years go, I mean, him not having 3 girls to beat, abuse and screw should be punishment enough, aye?

[Wrathbringer]

Figured crb would have commented by now...

[Slit-eye]

The person who got caught didn't technically get caught (burden of proof is a bitch) and therefore a can of legal worms was avoided by not issuing a ban.

There are at minimum now four known versions of the ticket getting spider. A safer non-server intensive version was released into RTCF chat during run 2... and another more easily sniffed version was released prior through public channels. Simutronics and the player base both turned blind eyes to the existence of these spiders until the ticket sales for run 2 at which point some people had already used them to score unrealistic amounts of tickets (we're not talking an RNG here, nor internet connectivity difference between winners and losers - the software successfully c-blocked others). Simutronics was contacted in regards to this, and they started paying more attention to the intricacies of requests made to the pages, how often, and headers. It became easy to see scripts at this point, but impossible to "prove". Solomon issued a blanket statement at this point.

The spider that was causing DOS attacks against the server was not seen for the ticket purchases of the last set of Run 2, either because said person was "on vacation" as they publicly stated - or because they were afraid of it being caught. This however did not keep them from trying again for Run 3, and they were indeed grabbed by the wrist.

Score 1 for Simu, Score 0 for the blind playerbase who refuses to believe they've been taken for an RTCF ride by this merchant. And to think... if they were just a half-assed coder they would've gotten away with it like the half dozen others.

[Wrathbringer]

All his gear should be taken & raffled.

[JackWhisper]

I actually read the EULA when you play Gemstone, or other SIMU games *The EULA's are nearly identical*. You know, for fun!

They can ban you if they decide they hate brown and you're wearing muddy boots. There's no requirement of proof for intellectual property in regards to leasing gameplay time on servers that belong to them.

Your characters belong to them.
Your accounts belong to them.
There is nothing other than them running a business stopping them from banning people.

And while I haven't read the EULA from many other games, this pretty much is the norm for any game I've played online.

[Slit-eye]

And do you know how much water a EULA will hold in a court of law in an attempt to prove guilt, or defend an LLC? Zero. EULAs are to attempt to quickly settle customer service disputes outside of legal channels. No amount of checkboxes, scrollbar limit switches, or random signing locations throughout a lengthy internet document will prove that the person agreeing to said EULA actually read the documentation and is not considered a victim.

"Gentlemen, the sheer length of this document protects itself entirely from the risk of being read." - Winston Churchill.

[Jarvan]

And do you know how much water a EULA will hold in a court of law in an attempt to prove guilt, or defend an LLC? Zero. EULAs are to attempt to quickly settle customer service disputes outside of legal channels. No amount of checkboxes, scrollbar limit switches, or random signing locations throughout a lengthy internet document will prove that the person agreeing to said EULA actually read the documentation and is not considered a victim.

"Gentlemen, the sheer length of this document protects itself entirely from the risk of being read." - Winston Churchill.

Frankly, I would love to see someone sue SIMU, or any other game for that matter, for the right to play said game. I think that would go over REAL well.

[JackWhisper]

What, you mean if said brute force hacker tried to take Simu to court over what, unsatisfactory service? Or preemptive termination of service?

In any court, someone that pays for something as paltry and small as virtual services is expected to know a basic ruleset for said service. No matter any way you dress it up, you don't have to read the entire EULA to know what they did is wrong. You're expected to know Paypal's rules. Amazon's rules. EBay's rules. Simu's rules. Saying you didn't bother reading it? Doesn't absolve you of guilt. It just means you dance the line hoping to not be given a reason to NEED to read it because it's a lot of BS wrapped in a nice little EULA wrapper.

One of the first things that's written in Simu's EULA is that nothing in this game belongs to you. Period. They can do as they please, when they please, because they want to. That's just how it is. They will likely never use that power to any level that we, as customers, would stand up and say WTF, but saying that an EULA is worthless, is all but a moot point.

And if someone tried to take Simu to court over this specific situation, they'd be pointed directly to the 'In signing for this virtual service, Gemstone IV, you assume no legal ownership of virtual service, content, or goods therein' page.

There are no legs to stand on when dealing with a virtual game, if you're going to try to require them to justify banning someone. They can because they stipulate in their rules they can so that GM's and GH's don't have to jump through hoops to keep the players in line.

[Slit-eye]

It's a bs argument in any case. The threat of litigation costs time and money. Someone has to deal with it in any situation regardless of victimizing, guilt, or innocence. I think Simutronics is correct in not wasting their time and money backing up Solomon's Statement by issuing a banning of said persons accounts/associated accounts. Again, it's a can of worms they'd be smart not to kick around, and they're not.

Your dragging arguments in about EULAs and what they could and should do are only serving to show why Eric's in charge and you're not.

I'm just glad the idiots who kept saying bots were paranoia now have an eye opener. I thought the playerbase of GS was at least of a higher tier of intellect than average until they stuck their head in the sand about why they weren't getting tickets.

[DaCapn]

So far the act of buying lots of tickets has been compared to AFK scripting, shoplifting, and kidnap/rape. In addition, banning someone from an online game without a good reason is somehow a criminal offense. As usual, salient analysis and reasoned discourse. Keep up the good work guys. I don't hit up the politics threads but I'd certainly like to see what kind of clever solutions get pieced together by this outside-the-box thinking.

[Back]

So far the act of buying lots of tickets has been compared to AFK scripting, shoplifting, and kidnap/rape. In addition, banning someone from an online game without a good reason is somehow a criminal offense. As usual, salient analysis and reasoned discourse. Keep up the good work guys. I don't hit up the politics threads but I'd certainly like to see what kind of clever solutions get pieced together by this outside-the-box thinking.

Heh, just imagine a bunch of strawmen making mountains out of molehills.

[Slit-eye]

virtual tar and pixelated feathers!

[Buckwheet]

You didn't use a brute force 60x page refresh software program to get seven tickets. Everyone is okay with you scoring it legitimately. Everyone is not okay with 18 of the people at RTCF2 being 2 people.

If you are going to make accusations like this why don't you attach real information. Saying 18 characters were being played by two people is not helpful in anyway. Additionally what do you consider a "legitimate player"?

[Warriorbird]

GMs playing stalking horse for a PM who doesn't really give a damn about y'all is sad.

With all that said, we know Simu won't be banning 7 accounts worth of revenue if they're longterm.

[JackWhisper]

If it was just 1 account, the situation would probably have been a lot worse for the person who got caught. Someone who dumps around 1% of their active subscription numbers? I don't see how they could ban them unless they were doing something horrid. Truly truly horrid.

And it's not about legitimate players. It's about how the tickets were acquired, that this whole thing started. If one person scored 20/25 tickets, but managed to have the active played accounts, and do it legitimately by clicking? Not one word would be said except out of pure jealousy. But what this situation degraded into? Just sucks out loud. You, Buck, don't use some random spider refresh to snake a majority of the tickets, so you're not on the bad side of this. You got really lucky with clicks. So jealousy is pretty much the only thing people have against you ^^. Rightly so since you've gotten some badass gear, which is worthy of many grats.

[crb]

Figured crb would have commented by now...

huh? There are two threads on this right now, I posted in the other one. Go read it, it wasn't me, as I said all long, my super secret is using the F5 key. I'll admit responsibility for the 2003 blackout, the invasion of Banaltra, the destruction of Ta'Ashrim, and the existence of Grimswarm, but not every diabolical scheme is my fault. So don't try to pin this, Droughtman betting, or the Obama presidency on me.

[JackWhisper]

Damnit, crb, claim responsibility for the Obama presidency.

Your desire to stay anonymous really grinds my gears.

[Jarvan]

It's a bs argument in any case. The threat of litigation costs time and money. Someone has to deal with it in any situation regardless of victimizing, guilt, or innocence. I think Simutronics is correct in not wasting their time and money backing up Solomon's Statement by issuing a banning of said persons accounts/associated accounts. Again, it's a can of worms they'd be smart not to kick around, and they're not.

Your dragging arguments in about EULAs and what they could and should do are only serving to show why Eric's in charge and you're not.

I'm just glad the idiots who kept saying bots were paranoia now have an eye opener. I thought the playerbase of GS was at least of a higher tier of intellect than average until they stuck their head in the sand about why they weren't getting tickets.

Sorry, but what you are saying is that Simu should never ban anyone for anything, because it would be a waste of time and money to fight it in court and win if the person sued them.

If that's not wrong headed thinking, nothing is.

[Slit-eye]

If the person in the wrong costs simu more money than they have contributed through accounts, then the terrorists win!

[Whirlin]

What if Simu simply revoked their access, but kept the money from the ticket purchase? Is that penalty enough, or does the person deserve bans?

What if it was that person who had the ticket on the level 1 account that sold quickly the day Run 3 tickets went on sale? That'd suck for the buyer.

[Buckwheet]

I don't know what difference a "ban" would make on this situation. You can pick up some pre-paid credit cards and enough disposable email addresses that even if you banned the accounts, how would the player be banned if they used bogus info? It seems like there is a lot of conjecture going on with almost no concrete fact checking.

Maybe the accounts HAVE been banned? I am pretty sure that Simu doesn't discuss what it does to specific people or accounts when stuff like this happens.

[Gelston]

Prob shouldn't ban people for AFK scripting in prime or plat either really. Just take the exp away or the loot. No reason to punish people for doing something wrong. We all make mistakes after all.

While we are at it, maybe we should let the guy that kidnapped 3 women for 10 years go, I mean, him not having 3 girls to beat, abuse and screw should be punishment enough, aye?

Way to compare apples to oranges, because using a bot to buy tickets is equivalent to committing felonies.

[crb]

The threat of a ban is not that the player could never find a way to play again, that'd certainly be possible. The problem is the character you've invested time in would be destroyed (more or less).

And yes, Simu doesn't discuss discipline in public, so for all we know they were banned, which does not mean permanently, could be 30 day or something, or a ban from future pay events for a year, who knows.

[Gelston]

Yeah, I'd say a ban from the game would be pointless. A lock out from the ticket office for future events for a period of time would be what I think would be a good punishment. The ticket office is the system he/she was jacking with, it should be the system he/she is locked out of.

[Buckwheet]

Listen, I am all for people getting punished, but I think worse stuff goes on all the time.

There was a player in RtCF round 2 that socially engineered another players password and stole like a couple hundred million in items and coins. Simu refunded the ticket price, and issued a lockout. I think that crime is far worse than buying tickets to a paid event. So why should one get the banhammer and the other not?

[Gelston]

The same reason petty theft is a misdemeanor and grand theft auto is a felony. The situation you mentioned should be a lockout and I believe precedence exists for lockouts in that situation as well. Not to mention, that also happened within the game, so I can see access to the game being removed for the offending party.

[Tgo01]

So far the act of buying lots of tickets has been compared to AFK scripting, shoplifting, and kidnap/rape. In addition, banning someone from an online game without a good reason is somehow a criminal offense. As usual, salient analysis and reasoned discourse. Keep up the good work guys. I don't hit up the politics threads but I'd certainly like to see what kind of clever solutions get pieced together by this outside-the-box thinking.

I don't think anyone has compared the act of buying a lot of tickets to any of that.


There was a player in RtCF round 2 that socially engineered another players password

What does that mean? I mean...I know what it means...but how did someone trick someone into giving them their password for GS?

[Gelston]

I don't think anyone has compared the act of buying a lot of tickets to any of that.

Jarvan sorta did.

[Tgo01]

Jarvan sorta did.

I agree Jarvan's rape and imprisonment example was kind of out there but I think everyone in this thread is talking about whatever illegal (as in against Simu's rules) means the person used to acquire these tickets, not just the act of the person acquiring these tickets.

[Jarvan]

Jarvan sorta did.

No, Jarvan did not.

I just pointing out that not punishing people for what they did wrong is just fucking stupid. Not my fault idiots look at what someone says and thinks OMG he just said this = that. Solomon said the person would be banned, granted in not those exact words, tho... I think most people could agree one way ticket to the void is pretty clear.

As for someone getting pre-paid cards and setting up multiple accounts, yes, easy enough to do. Of course people are not smart, and would leave bread crumbs as to the real owner, and then those real accounts would just as easily be banned. Like i said earlier though, it's not surprising that SIMU did nothing. There are some people that get the book thrown at them right away, and others that get away with almost anything.

Course, I understand why SIMU can't say what punishment was done, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Unless it was a known person here, and their main account was banned, we won't really ever know. And that just leaves the door open for someone else to do it in the future, and hope they don't get in trouble either.

[Buckwheet]

The same reason petty theft is a misdemeanor and grand theft auto is a felony. The situation you mentioned should be a lockout and I believe precedence exists for lockouts in that situation as well. Not to mention, that also happened within the game, so I can see access to the game being removed for the offending party.

So wait. Stealing $3,000 in value from a player and hacking their account is a misdemeanor to you, while PAYING $500 for tickets to an event is a felony? Each one hacked something and apparently had "unauthorized access to the computing system".

[Gelston]

I don't doubt something else happened to them, but I don't think a ban from the game is the right punishment. Yes, I think something should happen to them, but as I said, it should be a ban from the box office. They have always been fairly lenient on things involving outside the game stuff though.

Remember Ratolin? He used to use a fake CC generator and it would open his account until billing tried to use it at midnight. Well, if your account is shut down and you are logged in the game, you can stay in as long as you want. From what he told me, he had been doing this for about 6 months or so. Billing finally pegged him, and told him he if he ever wanted to play again, he'd have to pay for the 6 months owed and they wouldn't only accept the 6 month prepaid faxed check method thing now. He wasn't banned, he just lost the ability to pay with a credit card over the internet. Of course, all that is what he told me, so I'm not sure on the accuracy of it, but it seems fair.

[Gelston]

So wait. Stealing $3,000 in value from a player and hacking their account is a misdemeanor to you, while PAYING $500 for tickets to an event is a felony? Each one hacked something and apparently had "unauthorized access to the computing system".

You have my stance backwards. And in some states, stealing 3 grand IS a felony. Although I'm not sure how that transfers to the value of electronic game stuff.

[Buckwheet]

You have my stance backwards.

Gotcha. That makes more sense as does your stance two posts up. So the stealer should get banned, the office box person a punishment like no box office access. Okay.

[Geijon Khyree]

Whoever it is sure seems to be neg repping pretty hard. You mad?

[Gelston]

Thread: Who was it?

what is your address? since you wont press charges may as well get some stuff


Rofl, where did I say I don't think they should be punished? I sure as hell would press charges, after my five dogs and my bullets were done with you.

To me, banning someone from the game for this would be like suspending someone's driver's license for a non-vehicular offense.

[Silvean]

First, the five dogs eat you. Then, he shoots those five dogs to make sure you're dead. And finally, five more dogs eat the original five dogs because MACHO.

[diethx]

Listen, I am all for people getting punished, but I think worse stuff goes on all the time.

There was a player in RtCF round 2 that socially engineered another players password and stole like a couple hundred million in items and coins. Simu refunded the ticket price, and issued a lockout. I think that crime is far worse than buying tickets to a paid event. So why should one get the banhammer and the other not?

Wtf is "socially engineered"? Do you mean they shared accounts? Cause that is what happened.

[Gelston]

Using posted social network information to guess the password, I believe. Like you can get pet names, child names, mother's maiden names, birth dates, etc etc off things like facebook.

[Tgo01]

Using posted social network information to guess the password, I believe. Like you can get pet names, child names, mother's maiden names, birth dates, etc etc off things like facebook.

No offense to the person this happened to but if that's the case then...well...okay I better not say anything.

[Gelston]

No offense to the person this happened to but if that's the case then...well...okay I better not say anything.

It happens pretty often all over the world. I mean, not with GS accounts I guess, but for identity theft purposes. Most people don't think about it when they go on their FB page and post up their parents (or even just link to their Parent's FB page, hell, my 80 year old Grandmother has one and she plays farmville all day)... Or stick up pics of their kid's birthday party.

It is so very easy to post up a bunch of information that, alone means nothing, but all together is a prize for identity theft. Where it used to be people going through trash, it is now them looking around on the internet.

[Buckwheet]

Wtf is "socially engineered"? Do you mean they shared accounts? Cause that is what happened.

I don't know what person you are talking about. I don't play with you and I know we share no common friends and as such I know that you would never in a million years know if account sharing with this particular person happened. There may be another incident, which while similar in your mind, is different.

[Tgo01]

It happens pretty often all over the world. I mean, not with GS accounts I guess, but for identity theft purposes.

I can understand identity theft, but do people really use their pet's name as their password?

ETA: Well that's a pretty silly question, I'm sure it happens..just...just...well...

[Buckwheet]

I can understand identity theft, but do people really use their pet's name as their password?

Kids birthdates, password123, password, 12345678. Everyone does that. I just repaired data because the user account someone used was called "backdoor" with the password of goddly1. I believe you can use social media and glean information that could allow you access.

Also, we know your passwords are kept in plain text because SHA256 is not reversible. So if your passwords were encrypted you would not get an email with your password in plain text. It would have to be something like "here is a unique key that allows you to reset your password."

[Gelston]

Pft, password01 is the most secure password OF ALL TIME.

[Tgo01]

Fuck! I'm not the only one that uses password01?! Shit, brb, gotta change all of my passwords.

Also I would hope Simu updated their system so if a password is entered wrong two times or so an email is sent to the address on file informing them of a password being entered wrong too many times.

HA! I almost couldn't type that with all of that laughter.

[Gelston]

Heh, I sold an account once and the new owner forgot his PW at some point and I guess never changed the email address on file, and I got like 6 e-mails from Simu with the requested password.

[Wheelerm]

I'm jumping late, but does anyone else remember this post?

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?83495-Ticket-purchasing-script&highlight=Ticket+buying+script

[crb]

Wtf is "socially engineered"? Do you mean they shared accounts? Cause that is what happened.

Social engineering is how a lot of hacking is done. You either try to guess a password, or try to guess security question answers, by either tricking the mark into giving it to you, or someone else giving it to you, or nowadays just research it on Facebook etc.

In my younger and more formative years (high school) I used to do this. The mark might use hotmail, and their security question was "what city were you born in" so I had others start up a conversation just asking where you were born, the mark participates, information is granted, I get his hotmail account. I then send an email to all his contacts about some cool new software (read: Back Orifice) and try to get them to install the software, or send an email to his girlfriend alleging all sorts of improprieties. Stuff adolescent boys would find to be fun.

Whenever you watch some hacking or computer movie and the protagonist talks his way into a building and then spies on people, or chats up some receptionist fishing for information, or calls some low level worker claiming to be from the IT department and gets them to divulge something, thats all social engineering.

So ya, security questions are big security risks. I do like how simu lets you (or used to let you) pick your own though. My security question simply asks for another password (which is alphanumeric). You never want to use something someone could find our just following you on facebook. Mother's maiden name not so good, grandmother's maiden name a little better. Better to use something even more obtuse though.




On the topic of public punishments. There is a reason not to disclose who the troublemaker is, that is standard operating procedures for lots of businesses, even though public shaming is shown to work. However, disclosing the punishment itself I think would be suitable as a deterrent to other would be rule breakers.

[Tgo01]

Simu really screwed up by making people's forum handles the same as their login name. They really should update that so their forum handles are separate from their log....HA! Okay, I couldn't make it all the way through this time.

[diethx]

There may be another incident, which while similar in your mind, is different.

Fair enough. I assumed we were speaking of the same incident, as it would surprise me to hear of that happening twice in the same short time. Consider me surprised!

[Rolton-Sammich]

When they first moved to the web, Simu just passed along the username and password as plain text right in the URL. like after you click 'login' the page you'd be going to was

http://www.play.net/login.asp?username=hobbit&password=ilovetarts

GOOD TIMES

[diethx]

Wait a minute. I though Rolton-Sammich is Barumples?

[Allereli]

original Barumples is 100%Wool I believe

[diethx]

Oooohhh yes you are correct.

[dgryphon]

I'm jumping late, but does anyone else remember this post?

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?83495-Ticket-purchasing-script&highlight=Ticket+buying+script

It wasn't me, I only have two accounts and was too broke from the first run to bother going a second time. Overall, I'm pretty happy with the result, specifically any measures that may be taken in the future to curb the use of scripts. The user may have been using my script but I kind of doubt it. I didn't bother using it after I made it public, but it apparently had bugs, which is expected in untested code.

Dgry

[m444w]

Kids birthdates, password123, password, 12345678. Everyone does that. I just repaired data because the user account someone used was called "backdoor" with the password of goddly1. I believe you can use social media and glean information that could allow you access.

Also, we know your passwords are kept in plain text because SHA256 is not reversible. So if your passwords were encrypted you would not get an email with your password in plain text. It would have to be something like "here is a unique key that allows you to reset your password."

I brought this up on the forums recently after I forgot the password for an account and they emailed it to me, and it is lazy bullshit that they don't hash your password.

Not that you should ever reuse the same password across the web, but in reality it happens...

If your play.net password is the same as any other password of importance (gmail, paypal, facebook, etc), you should change your play.net password to something unique immediately, otherwise if some blackhat hacker happened to figure out a previously unknown exploit and went probing servers (usually in an automated fashion), and got your account information they could then use it to compromise your other accounts, your friends' accounts (via phishing), and so on...

I also thought if they store credit card information it is required to hash passwords for PCI DSS compliance...

[Buckwheet]

They just use GSL hashing.

[Pereus]

Social engineering is how a lot of hacking is done. You either try to guess a password, or try to guess security question answers, by either tricking the mark into giving it to you, or someone else giving it to you, or nowadays just research it on Facebook etc.

In my younger and more formative years (high school) I used to do this. The mark might use hotmail, and their security question was "what city were you born in" so I had others start up a conversation just asking where you were born, the mark participates, information is granted, I get his hotmail account. I then send an email to all his contacts about some cool new software (read: Back Orifice) and try to get them to install the software, or send an email to his girlfriend alleging all sorts of improprieties. Stuff adolescent boys would find to be fun.

Whenever you watch some hacking or computer movie and the protagonist talks his way into a building and then spies on people, or chats up some receptionist fishing for information, or calls some low level worker claiming to be from the IT department and gets them to divulge something, thats all social engineering.

So ya, security questions are big security risks. I do like how simu lets you (or used to let you) pick your own though. My security question simply asks for another password (which is alphanumeric). You never want to use something someone could find our just following you on facebook. Mother's maiden name not so good, grandmother's maiden name a little better. Better to use something even more obtuse though.


I love how half of this post is how to not get your password stolen, then the rest is how you have your password setup, lol.

[Candor]

Social engineering is how a lot of hacking is done. You either try to guess a password, or try to guess security question answers, by either tricking the mark into giving it to you, or someone else giving it to you, or nowadays just research it on Facebook etc.

In my younger and more formative years (high school) I used to do this. The mark might use hotmail, and their security question was "what city were you born in" so I had others start up a conversation just asking where you were born, the mark participates, information is granted, I get his hotmail account. I then send an email to all his contacts about some cool new software (read: Back Orifice) and try to get them to install the software, or send an email to his girlfriend alleging all sorts of improprieties. Stuff adolescent boys would find to be fun.

So in other words, you're a criminal.

[Jarvan]

I threw a dart at the map of the US. That's where I was born now.

[Latrinsorm]

The longevity of any successful game is not threatened by who is eliminated for abusing a system. Instead, it is threatened by what the people behind the game are willing to excuse.

If this person had done this on a modern mmo, he'd be long gone. Heck, even a suspension of his IP for a month would have sent the message across.Every population has a tipping point. It is unlikely even if 7 people were banned that it would be exactly there, but it is possible. You could say that a game whose population is nearly critical isn't "successful", but then you're just using tautologies.

Also, "abuse" is really a stretch as far as I'm concerned. The game already rewards who is best at scripting in Wizard or Lich, why not in Internet? If you can use a script to beat me out for signing a merchant list, why can't you use a script for getting to the event at all? It is black and white, but it is arbitrarily so. The idea that everyone has to agree with your personal arbitration or they are illogical is silly.
Sorry, but what you are saying is that Simu should never ban anyone for anything, because it would be a waste of time and money to fight it in court and win if the person sued them.This is incorrect.
I just pointing out that not punishing people for what they did wrong is just fucking stupid.No one said this.
Mother's maiden name not so good, grandmother's maiden name a little better. Better to use something even more obtuse though.Misogynist.

[diethx]

Fair enough. I assumed we were speaking of the same incident, as it would surprise me to hear of that happening twice in the same short time. Consider me surprised!

Yeeeah, no. Buckwheet, you're being fed lies.

I can guarantee a million years over that you're talking about my roommate. And it was shared accounts. Just FYI.

(Also it wasn't close to $3k.)

[Tgo01]

Yeeeah, no. Buckwheet, you're being fed lies.

I can guarantee a million years over that you're talking about my roommate. And it was shared accounts. Just FYI.

pk had his account hacked?

[Latrinsorm]

Fizzgig. Kittens may be cute but because of their poor digitization they make really basic passwords.

[diethx]

Fizzgig. Kittens may be cute but because of their poor digitization they make really basic passwords.

LOL

[Rethius]

Every population has a tipping point. It is unlikely even if 7 people were banned that it would be exactly there, but it is possible. You could say that a game whose population is nearly critical isn't "successful", but then you're just using tautologies.

Also, "abuse" is really a stretch as far as I'm concerned. The game already rewards who is best at scripting in Wizard or Lich, why not in Internet? If you can use a script to beat me out for signing a merchant list, why can't you use a script for getting to the event at all? It is black and white, but it is arbitrarily so. The idea that everyone has to agree with your personal arbitration or they are illogical is silly.

The point I was attempting to make was that the populace has essentially viewed this as a slap on the wrist for blatantly attempting to profit through an illegal means, the third party program. It's as many people said, the slap has done nothing to deter people and until we see how they fix the issue, we'll not know if others have the potential to ruin the events by ticket hoarding via a 3PP, then selling them for more when they are all gone.

I'm not touching the Lich thing, let someone else argue that.

I'm not saying everyone has to agree, just have more of a clear and defined reason for your side of an argument and statements. To go 'I have the balls to disagree' and then give a half-hearted shake of the fist afterwards is a little... y'know?

[Buckwheet]

Yeeeah, no. Buckwheet, you're being fed lies.

I can guarantee a million years over that you're talking about my roommate. And it was shared accounts. Just FYI.

(Also it wasn't close to $3k.)

First of all I can guarantee you that you are full of shit. Your roommate is APK on the forum. And both of you have a penchant for sticking your nose in my shit where it doesn't belong. So unless somehow magically APK and I are friends(Protip: We aren't.), or one of my best friends IRL knows APK and knows its APK and against my strong dislike of APK shared an account with him and that APK stole my buddy Rick's shit. Then you are fucking wrong as always. I know what got taken and it was about 200m in stuff. So I think you should politely shut the fuck up now.

So whatever the douchebaggery APK is involved with has nothing to do with me or my buddy. So APK can go screw off. I saw him selling nice shit on the forum so he probably was sharing an account with someone and stole their shit. Way to out him for that, weirdo.

[tyrant-201]

First of all I can guarantee you that you are full of shit. Your roommate is APK on the forum. And both of you have a penchant for sticking your nose in my shit where it doesn't belong. So unless somehow magically APK and I are friends(Protip: We aren't.), or one of my best friends IRL knows APK and knows its APK and against my strong dislike of APK shared an account with him and that APK stole my buddy Rick's shit. Then you are fucking wrong as always. I know what got taken and it was about 200m in stuff. So I think you should politely shut the fuck up now.

LOL! Love it

[diethx]

First of all I can guarantee you that you are full of shit. Your roommate is APK on the forum. And both of you have a penchant for sticking your nose in my shit where it doesn't belong. So unless somehow magically APK and I are friends(Protip: We aren't.), or one of my best friends IRL knows APK and knows its APK and against my strong dislike of APK shared an account with him and that APK stole my buddy Rick's shit. Then you are fucking wrong as always. I know what got taken and it was about 200m in stuff. So I think you should politely shut the fuck up now.

So whatever the douchebaggery APK is involved with has nothing to do with me or my buddy. So APK can go screw off. I saw him selling nice shit on the forum so he probably was sharing an account with someone and stole their shit. Way to out him for that, weirdo.

lol u mad?

Ok bro, whatever you say. :)

Oh also. If you don't want people talking about and responding to shit you post on the PC - don't post it on the PC. You might wanna learn how the forums work.

[Jarvan]

Wait.. I am lost here.. are talking about RtCF? Or something else now?

Because honestly, both things deserve a perma ban in my book.

You hack someone's account and steal their shit, perma ban.

Someone lets you use your account to say spell up, and you take all their shit and sell it, perma ban.

If you use a third party program to snag multiple tickets to the same run of RtCF, perma ban.

If you get ugly ass alters like Tsin used to, Perma Ban.... hmm.. well, maybe you shouldn't be banned for poor taste.

[Buckwheet]

I don't know. I posted up a scenario in which my buddy Rick had his account password guessed or whatever you want to call and his shit stolen and had his RtCF ticket refunded. And diethx comes in here spouting bullshit about her roommate APK who I could give a fuck about and as always believe she and APK are omniscient about EVERY aspect of what goes on in the game.

[diethx]

Seeing Buckwheet's reaction makes me want to respond to every post he ever makes.

Dude can rage like whoa.

[Buckwheet]

Seeing Buckwheet's reaction makes me want to respond to every post he ever makes.

Dude can rage like whoa.

Whatever makes you orgasm at night cunt.

[diethx]

Whatever makes you orgasm at night cunt.

That would not be you.

[Buckwheet]

That would not be you.

Reply again and it says it is.

[diethx]

Reply again and it says it is.

Uh, because you say so? Ok.

I just want to illicit more rage. Don't begrudge me another outburst. Just outburst.

[Tenlaar]

Dude can rage like whoa.

Maybe something else is making Buckwheet so mad, like...I dunno...losing his RtCF tickets?!

DUN DUN

[Buckwheet]

Awe she loves me and has to have me.

[FlayedAngel]

Whatever makes you orgasm at night cunt.
I totally misread that as "night court"...

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxitpocccd1qz9ivbo1_400.jpg

[diethx]

Maybe something else is making Buckwheet so mad, like...I dunno...losing his RtCF tickets?!

DUN DUN

lolol

I wonder if he's mad enough to try to take over the PC again...

[Buckwheet]

I totally misread that as "night court"...

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxitpocccd1qz9ivbo1_400.jpg

Seriously she is a room mate with APK...I bet she just has to be like Oh Buckwheet embrace me! and he just dives right into the roleplay. In truth it is that awesome to be me I must admit.

[FlayedAngel]

Seriously she is a room mate with APK...I bet she just has to be like Oh Buckwheet embrace me! and he just dives right into the roleplay. In truth it is that awesome to be me I must admit.

Are we doing some kinky role-playing now? DIBS ON JOHN LARROQUETTE!

[diethx]

Seriously she is a room mate with APK...I bet she just has to be like Oh Buckwheet embrace me! and he just dives right into the roleplay. In truth it is that awesome to be me I must admit.

Fuck. How did you get access to the video feed?!

[diethx]

DIBS ON JOHN LARROQUETTE!

Not something I'd ever thought I'd read. Ever.

[tyrant-201]

Quick, let's all just start spouting inane bullshit and scenarios and see what else she confesses to.

[Tgo01]

Well this thread fizzled out fast. Someone post some full nude shots of PC members.

[DCSL]

Wow. Shit's complicated. Glad I'm in no way involved and can freely make up whatever I want about what's happening.

I think it's pretty obvious that Buckwheet and Rick were in a monogamous homosexual relationship. But Rick shared his account (read: penis) with someone else and that someone else stole some stuff (sperm) and Buckwheet found out. He was all, "Where did all the stuff (sperm) go!?" So Rick had to confess his account (penis) sharing. Now Buckwheet is pissed because he's low on stuff (sperm) and he's taking it out on everyone else.

Or! Hm.

pk had an account (read: dog). He and his ex bought this account (dog) together so when they split up, they argued over who would get to keep the account (dog) and everything on it (fleas). The ex thought a tad more quickly and soon had the account (dog) stripped of stuff (fleas) before pk could even blink. The account (dog) is worthless to him without all the stuff (fleas) so pk is pissed and he's taking it out on his new roommate diethx, even though she keeps offering him stuff (fleas, from her cats) to help him get over it. But he refuses and diethx is taking it out on everyone else.

I could go all night.

[diethx]

^

[FlayedAngel]

Wow. Shit's complicated. Glad I'm in no way involved and can freely make up whatever I want about what's happening.

I think it's pretty obvious that Buckwheet and Rick were in a monogamous homosexual relationship. But Rick shared his account (read: penis) with someone else and that someone else stole some stuff (sperm) and Buckwheet found out. He was all, "Where did all the stuff (sperm) go!?" So Rick had to confess his account (penis) sharing. Now Buckwheet is pissed because he's low on stuff (sperm) and he's taking it out on everyone else.

Or! Hm.

pk had an account (read: dog). He and his ex bought this account (dog) together so when they split up, they argued over who would get to keep the account (dog) and everything on it (fleas). The ex thought a tad more quickly and soon had the account (dog) stripped of stuff (fleas) before pk could even blink. The account (dog) is worthless to him without all the stuff (fleas) so pk is pissed and he's taking it out on his new roommate diethx, even though she keeps offering him stuff (fleas, from her cats) to help him get over it. But he refuses and diethx is taking it out on everyone else.

I could go all night.

I'm not sure if I'm less or more confused by this.

Sexually speaking, I mean... of course.

[Avamagozma]

Wow. . .I. . .wow. Someone needs some rope. LOL

[Thondalar]

Meh, for my second account I could have brought in my well-known characters, instead I chose to bring one that would actually benefit from something like the feature pavilion. I'm sure one or two other people had the same idea.

A level 0 character on a throw-away account benefited from the feature pavilion? Do tell.

[tyrant-201]

A level 0 character on a throw-away account benefited from the feature pavilion? Do tell.

How dare they allow that sort of riff-raff on the grounds.

[Jhynnifer]

A level 0 character on a throw-away account benefited from the feature pavilion? Do tell.

Um, I don't have any throw-away accounts. But thanks. The account holds my wizard, one of my empaths and a sorc.

But don't worry, we're used to you being wrong.

Oh and she's 3, tyvm. I rerolled her the day before rtcf because I hadn't gotten as far as I wanted to with her before her 30 days were up and I'd screwed up her deity choice (she's a cleric)

[Tgo01]

Thread: Who was it?

no. pk stole about 100m in gear and silver.


Say it ain't so pk!

[Gelston]

Who?!! Someone fess up.
GBB

Btw, it was Kitsun.

/thread

[AuctionBot2000]

Fleurs ran 3, then 4, and has said they got 3 for this one.

I daresay that looks a LITTLE shady, but seems possible.


Diethx needs to post less because I had to skip over your mega bitching have to respond to every post because I have no life.


Why are her tickets not being taken?

[Buckwheet]

Why would they take diethx's ticket? That doesn't many any sense.

[diethx]

Now now, Inspire. diethx needs to post more!

[AuctionBot2000]

Why would they take diethx's ticket? That doesn't many any sense.

I meant fleurs. Nobody cares about the troll.

[Jhynnifer]

I meant fleurs. Nobody cares about the troll.

Sigmund Freud says -you- do!

[Tgo01]

I care about diethx.

Speaking of which, don't forget this month's friendship payment.

[Gelston]

I hate all of you, especially you Tgo01. I hope all the worst things in the world happen to you and only you and no one else.

[Tgo01]

:(

[diethx]

Lol

[Latrinsorm]

The longevity of any successful game is not threatened by who is eliminated for abusing a system. Instead, it is threatened by what the people behind the game are willing to excuse.

If this person had done this on a modern mmo, he'd be long gone. Heck, even a suspension of his IP for a month would have sent the message across.I'm a little embarrassed to admit I didn't think of "punishment does not imply guilt" given that our Punisher is Simu, but let's all keep it in mind next time we call for severe action.