RTCF MAJOR BIDS

[Slit-eye]

Public Service Post for people wanting to streamline this "selling my major" process. If you are interested in a service, post your rate in this thread or PM it to me - I'll try to keep it as updated as possible. This is for those looking to bid on major/minor wins at RTCF, not for those who have already have agreements with other RTCF attendees. It is posted in a "Service" then People interested at what amounts underneath, and then a line followed by the next service. If you find your name further down the list than it will take to get your service (not all will be for sale obviously) you'll want to post a higher bid and update this thread.

CRIT/DAMAGE PADDING
Ondreian
________________________________
CRIT/DAMAGE WEIGHTING
Arctal - 50m
Tallkris3
Neimanz1
Zaigh
________________________________
TD BONUS
Terzl - 10m
Kerl - 10m
________________________________
BLINK
Arctal - 100m
________________________________
RESISTANCE
Dmac188 - 20m
Luftstreitkrafte - 15m
Kerl - 15m
Ondreian
________________________________
UNDEAD BANE
Kerl - 25m
Tallkris3
Neimanz1
Tylec
________________________________
EXTRA-PLANAR BANE
Kerl - 15m
________________________________
ENCHANT
Buckwheet - 10m
Tyrant-201
________________________________
PERMABLESS
Tallkris3
________________________________
ASG CHANGE
Middian
Ondreian
________________________________
WEIGHT REDUCTION
Kerl - 15m
________________________________
RUNESTAFF ACUITY
CRB
________________________________
PERFUME
Jhynnifer
________________________________
BANSHEE FLARES
Neimanz1
________________________________
IRONWRIGHT FLARES
Neimanz1
________________________________
ENHANCIVE SWAP/PERM
Neimanz1
________________________________
S-CLASS SIEGERY
Zaigh
________________________________
T2 VOLN
Tylec
________________________________
T3 VOLN
Sentral - 13m
Tylec
Jhynnifer
Neimanz1
________________________________
T4 VOLN
Jhynnifer
Neimanz1
Jeril
________________________________
IZTHIR FLARES
Terzl - 5m
________________________________
ENHANCIVE SWAP/PERMANENCE
Neimanz1
Fleurs
________________________________


Get those MBs up so you can have a shot at it, otherwise this is pointless.

[Luftstreitkräfte]

will pay $175 via paypal or 15m for any resistance spot

[Buckwheet]

I will be competing for enchants as well. Will start offering 10m only because I have no clue what the surcharge will be on a claid weighted weapon.

[diethx]

This is a great idea. thx slit eye (and FA!!!)

[diethx]

Actually, also, can we do minors here too? I assume people other than me will be selling them.

[senorgordoburro]

I'll pay cash for T3 ithzir... Unless someone is selling coins.

[dmac188]

Will pay 20 million for resistance

[sentral]

I'll pay 13mi for Tier 3 voln

[Lord Orbstar]

you will pay more than that, Mister!

[Wrathbringer]

I'll pay 13mi for Tier 3 voln

T3 voln armor auction went for 24m at run one. I doubt it will be as cheap this time around, or next time. Everything auctioned got increasingly more expensive from runs 1-3 at ccf. Be interesting to see if that holds true this time around.

[Sav]

I'm willing to outbid anyone on any and every service... throw out your hopes and dreams... in fact you might as well not even show up at all

[Slit-eye]

Almost everyone's going to be paying more, but it seems very few want to say what they're willing to pay until right there at the event - which defeats the purpose of doing this. It's a little frustrating. For example, there are four people saying they want to buy the two undead bane slots.

If it helps any, I can give a roundabout of where each service sold during run 1, but I wasn't standing there for all of them. Undead bane was approx 100m. Arctal is correct with 50m on weighting and 100m on blink. I think blink actually got higher. All padding slots that sold went for 40m or higher. Resistances were all 25m or higher. The lowest enchant sold at 25m. Permabless didn't sell. One of the ASG change slots went for 20m, but it's position in the festival made it a charity case. Lowest Ironwright sale was 45m. The high tier voln armors didn't sell that I saw, but I could imagine what they'd go for considering what they do.

[Terzl]

I'll pay 10m for a TD slot, 5m for a Ithzir flare slot.

[Sav]

Terzl, apparently you didn't read my previous post... ITS ALL MINE!

[Slit-eye]

At these prices, I'd have to disagree. I'll be buying them all. You can have the perfume.

[Sav]

I'm willing to go at least 100m on the perfume, you bet your ass I can have it.

[Zaigh]

The lowest enchant sold at 25m.

Lowest enchant went for 20m, I paid that.


I'm willing to go at least 100m on the perfume, you bet your ass I can have it.

I'm holding you to this bid.

[Luftstreitkräfte]

Just got my 2nd ticket to the third run. Looking for someone to partner with that is going on the run tonight. I will be selling most of my majors except stuff like padding and resistances. Let me know.. I'd like to have a few people lined up to talk to on 9/6 since I have 2 spots.

-Drew

[Methais]

I'm selling anything I win too, so PM me if you need to work anything out.

[Archigeek]

Why would anyone want to list what they want to pay? Someone else will just up them at the last moment. I have coins, I want things. Contact me in the chat or at pmhannemann on AIM or send me a PM. If you want to negotiate privately in advance on the other hand, I'm all ears.

[Slit-eye]

The reason is you're going to negotiate a rate, and they're going to use it as a starting bid anyway when the time comes to sell their major.... so no time is saved and the three-day crunch we all felt at the first run will just happen all over again. This was an attempt to make the process more point and click so we can scoot things along.

[Anebriated]

You have the right idea by putting together a buyers list. nobody in their right mind should start the bidding today unless you plan on putting up an amount that nobody else will match

[Archigeek]

Ok then, here's my list of low ball numbers you can consider the floor then:

Undead bane: 25m
Extra-planar bane: 15m
40-pound weight reduction: 15m
Resistance: 15m
TD: 10m

[Luftstreitkräfte]

Possibly add # of tickets to each name?

Like - Luftstreitkrafte (2 tickets to 9/6 run)

so to establish a working relationship with others. Like, you take my 15m bid for resistance, I'm more likely to secure your bid for some of my 9/6 slot wins.

[Slit-eye]

This list is for Run 2. Number of tickets is currently irrelevant.

[Buckwheet]

The "issue" I have with this run is that unless somehow you know all the big timers who are coming a couple of them are saying things like "I will sell all my slots" when last run they were the ones buying. Example:CRB. Nothing wrong with that but CRB might have paid say 40m for padding to make sure he won and padding could go for lets say 30m now because he claims he will sell his slots.

In addition there are now new "rules" to be aware of. I am not going to pay 25m for an enchant slot with the new restrictions to have someone told two weeks later no and then I have to pay 25m and scramble to find something worthwhile to enchant.

Hope that makes sense.

[Methais]

The "issue" I have with this run is that unless somehow you know all the big timers who are coming a couple of them are saying things like "I will sell all my slots" when last run they were the ones buying. Example:CRB. Nothing wrong with that but CRB might have paid say 40m for padding to make sure he won and padding could go for lets say 30m now because he claims he will sell his slots.

In addition there are now new "rules" to be aware of. I am not going to pay 25m for an enchant slot with the new restrictions to have someone told two weeks later no and then I have to pay 25m and scramble to find something worthwhile to enchant.

Hope that makes sense.

What are these new rules you speak of?

[Buckwheet]

There is some kind of points system GMs are using now. Another good example is Kitsun's Gory Weapon win. I believe they made him 10x UAC gloves with zealot per the GM.

According to Nilandia's site that has been now changed to be a maximum of a 6x weapon. There were changes to padding, people being told you can not add the full 10 points of padding the spin is for you can only add 5 and other things.

[crb]

The "issue" I have with this run is that unless somehow you know all the big timers who are coming a couple of them are saying things like "I will sell all my slots" when last run they were the ones buying. Example:CRB. Nothing wrong with that but CRB might have paid say 40m for padding to make sure he won and padding could go for lets say 30m now because he claims he will sell his slots.

In addition there are now new "rules" to be aware of. I am not going to pay 25m for an enchant slot with the new restrictions to have someone told two weeks later no and then I have to pay 25m and scramble to find something worthwhile to enchant.

Hope that makes sense.

Correct. I hope to recoup my cost from the first run, generally my gear is unable to be further improved now (except acuity flares, which is why I'm buying them). Though padding cost 50m to buy a slot on run 1. That was buying from another player, so you still had the fee on top, then the slots they auctioned went for more, 80 or 90 tops as I recall. But your service fee could be covered by your bid.

[Wrathbringer]

There is some kind of points system GMs are using now. Another good example is Kitsun's Gory Weapon win. I believe they made him 10x UAC gloves with zealot per the GM.

According to Nilandia's site that has been now changed to be a maximum of a 6x weapon. There were changes to padding, people being told you can not add the full 10 points of padding the spin is for you can only add 5 and other things.

Weak. They'll make these changes, but refused to fix the completely stupid ticket distribution problem. That makes sense...

[Buckwheet]

Yeah I guess that is my overall point. I think some people saw the prices stuff was selling for and are like oh hey my item(s) are not worth adding a 100m service to but shit yeah I will take 100m! So there are a ton of slots "for sale" with people hoping they make bank. It will all work out fine if us "whales" actually can use the services and are willing to pay for them. I have already had three items checked and told they will not do work on them or that the work would be so expensive its not worth it to me.

Who knows what will shake out this run.

[Slit-eye]

I believe the offset may be in the fact that there are no longer 300 majors to be won in Prime. There are now 200. And in a month there will be 100 left. Those who didn't like what they saw at Run 1 are understanding that they have little choice at this point but to cough up for that padding price list Simu put forward.

My problem isn't in people not wanting to step forward and say "I'll pay 50m for a padding slot" - my problem is in 6 people wanting a "1-of" service and none of them saying anything. It doesn't help anyone. It doesn't give any information other than "Hey, these half dozen people might be interested in your T4 voln slot" which doesn't cut down on the time to service in the slightest. One of those people said "10m", even though it's ridiculously low, now the other five can all go sit on their thumb or place a higher bid. Eventually you'll get an honest response at the top of someone saying "I'll pay 80m for that T4 voln slot" and now you're cooking with oil.

[sentral]

okay i understand my 13 mil mb wont make it on the tier 3, i myself bought a tier 2 slot when i had a ticket for 9 mil. I'll be there to bid when the time comes.

[Archigeek]

There is some kind of points system GMs are using now. Another good example is Kitsun's Gory Weapon win. I believe they made him 10x UAC gloves with zealot per the GM.

According to Nilandia's site that has been now changed to be a maximum of a 6x weapon. There were changes to padding, people being told you can not add the full 10 points of padding the spin is for you can only add 5 and other things.

This was the case with the weighting, though I hadn't heard this had happened with padding. I thought it genuinely sucked when the sign said returners were OK and when mine was handed forward it was a no-go.

Clearly the winners at this festival are those who wanted work done on light armor, which they are by comparison practically giving away, but woe be unto you if you use a heavy weapon or wear heavy armor.

[Buckwheet]

I believe it was Menos and someone from plat who were told they could only 5 of the 10 points to their armor.

[Jhynnifer]

Same with me. I'm not going to promise coins right now because I don't know what's going to happen. But when the time comes to bid on T3/T4 voln stuff I'll be there bidding because I'll have already finalized my major wins. This is a great post in that it gives us all an idea of what to expect as far as spending is concerned.

[Slit-eye]

That's where the problem lies. This post does nothing anymore than provide a directory of names of people who may be interested in your major win. The chat room and lnet do the exact same thing. Without prices listed, we're accomplishing nothing in regards to moving the process along when it comes time to sell that slot you have.

[Methais]

How do people typically go about selling the slot? Start bidding on LNet/chatroom after you win? Before the drawing?

What about after? Do you port out and get the item from the person, or does it have to be someone who's already at the event?

I didn't pay attention to how any of that worked on the first run.

[Slit-eye]

At the first run people would win the raffle/spin, and then say in chat or lnet "Selling <Major service>. Current bid is <whatever>" and let the bidding war commence. Then when it sold, they would excuse themselves to get the item and coins from the winning bidder, and present it for service. It took way too long, and congested the first two days of the event to the point where dozens were missing out on other merchants/raffles or services. I wanted to streamline that process so that when the time came, we had a list of people who were buying the service from the top down so there was a much quicker transition. That's not going to happen though because nobody wants to say what they're offering on the service until time comes for them to be in the bidding war for real... which doesn't make sense since bidding now is the exact same thing isn't it? Whatevs.

[Archigeek]

That's where the problem lies. This post does nothing anymore than provide a directory of names of people who may be interested in your major win. The chat room and lnet do the exact same thing. Without prices listed, we're accomplishing nothing in regards to moving the process along when it comes time to sell that slot you have.

I think most buyers are taking a dual pronged approach. They have a few people lined up and ready to get work done, and then they may pick up one or two other things on the side. If I toss out numbers to the public, whatever they are, they just become the floor. What do I accomplish by doing that other than sweetening the pot for the sellers? This is not in my best interest as a buyer, but it is in yours as a seller, so I get that.

I do appreciate the thread though, so thank you. It has helped me line up some people who are willing to sell to me. If you're serious about selling and would rather have a deal wrapped up and agreed to instead of scrambling at the last minute to eek out an extra mil, send me a PM.

[Slit-eye]

I don't want to waste your time anymore than I want to waste anyone elses. I have four people going to this event (that's 1 out of 25 people there) and so will be targetting the services people have requested for me to get for them. I have a weighting and blink (if I get them) already promised to someone who has PMed me with a fair offer. If you would like to PM me with your fair offers for the majors/minors you want I'll be more than happy to list you the same way.

The purpose of this thread was to move things along for the festival as a whole. Not for me to "eek out an extra mil". No expediting happens without there being prices on this list for those who may or may not be riding the fence on whether or not they want the service they won when the time comes.

[diethx]

I am also open to fair offers via PM (or IM)!

[sentral]

i will be prepared to bid more on tier 3 voln, thanks

[Pereus]

i will be prepared to bid more on tier 3 voln, thanks

I thought you already had a set.

[Jhynnifer]

I'm in the same boat, able to sell two major slots... so if people are interested, pm me with bids or offers and I'll be happy to try for them!

[sentral]

you sold me the tier 2 on my robes, i want to go to tier 3 on it

[sentral]

When is the "Pereus Casino" going to open up in the Dais?

[tallkris3]

I know I saw it once before but what's the AIM chatroom thing setup for the second run?

[diethx]

I just invited you.

[Archigeek]

Weird thing is, that between how ticket sales were handled for this event, and all the posts of slots for sale, it almost seems like there are more sellers than buyers this time around. Slit-eye's got 4, and Buck's got who knows how many? Who the hell is going to buy all this stuff from you guys? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad stuff is going to get sold, I'm just surprised by the level of speculation. I do hope they put more thought into our natural penchant for exploitation before they set up ticket sales for the next high-demand event.

[Buckwheet]

I have 11. Did't you read the other thread? CRB called me an amateur.

Edit: I really did plan on getting more slots for myself. But they changed the rules and the pricing went so wonky on plate armor that I am not even remotely interested now.

Things I can't use anymore:

10x T5 HCP 5 pound plate.
2 10x shields - last time they put TD on the shield over 10x not this time
8x 9 pound plate - weight jacks the price sky high
7x HCP fusion plate
6x HCP fusion plate
7x HCP fusion aug chain

The cost to work on those item kind of outweighs the benefits.

[Slit-eye]

We told them when they divulged the method of ticket release that it would pigeon hole who was going. Then we told them that scripting existed causing that already tiny number to become even smaller. Then we told them that the method of releasing services would funnel them to the top players who had bank accounts to handle the supply (since demand here is almost infinite). They didn't listen at each turn, and the results are what you see before you. There's only so long someone can watch money float back and forth throughout the air and not reach up to grab some of it.

There is very little speculation going on here. After next months RTCF it's done, it's over. Services like this may not ever be seen in Gemstone again. The higher ups threw billions of silvers into the middle of the economy ensuring that they got their due.... if you feel like you didn't yet, then you've got more silvers to spend for it and need to be happy about that. Now the middle of the economy has hundreds of millions each to get what they wanted (and sold) at the first run... or have purchased enough silvers to get what they saw coming out of the first run. Just because the orgy of excess that was Run 1 has a new demographic in Run 2 doesn't make the demand any less... in fact it makes it higher since we're closer to the end of it existing.

[Archigeek]

Buck, I saw you posted 11, I just wasn't sure if you were telling the truth or not. That is a fantastical number, and I have no idea how you're going to manage to juggle it all. When you run out of coins to do the work you want, get in touch with me and I'll hook you up, as I know you're good for it. Also, you have my sympathy in regards to their wonky pricing, obviously.

And Slit-eye, you're absolutely right about the warnings on ticket methodology. I sympathize with them some, as it isn't exactly something that's easy to change once you've tossed it out there. At this point it is what it is. I will contact you with some more realistic pricing on a few select items, but I think generally, (and understandably considering your position), you're tossing top-end numbers out there, and I'm not going to over-pay on stuff I don't need, and I don't need anything. I will however pay reasonable numbers.

[thefarmer]

TD and resistance should be cheap!

I'm not buying it all.

[Vagabondbard]

Damn I am good for anyone that wants to lend me silver too!

GBB

[Buckwheet]

I think people are not being honest with their ticket numbers! But no I don't have 11. I don't advertise what I have because well..I may or may not have either bought account access or accounts or players to help me out.

I have more than 1 but less than 11.

[Archigeek]

Damn I am good for anyone that wants to lend me silver too!

GBB

Who said anything about lend? I was thinking more of the word extort.

[Buckwheet]

You should log into AIM...

[Jarvan]

Weird thing is, that between how ticket sales were handled for this event, and all the posts of slots for sale, it almost seems like there are more sellers than buyers this time around. Slit-eye's got 4, and Buck's got who knows how many? Who the hell is going to buy all this stuff from you guys? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad stuff is going to get sold, I'm just surprised by the level of speculation. I do hope they put more thought into our natural penchant for exploitation before they set up ticket sales for the next high-demand event.

I am sure they will...

3 runs, 50 tickets per run. 5 Slots of 10 Tickets.

[Wrathbringer]

I am sure they will...

3 runs, 50 tickets per run. 5 Slots of 10 Tickets.

They should just skip the middle man and do them one at a time. Oh wait, they did that last night... Brilliant!

[Buckwheet]

Just make an auction page with the services and you bid in simucoins or silvers. Problem solved!

[Wrathbringer]

25 tickets will be sold in groups of 1, every 30 minutes for 12.5 hours in order to give everyone the best possible chance of getting a ticket. Extreme, but that's the logic used this go round.

[JackWhisper]

They could alleviate a lot of the issues with people buying multiple tickets if they crosschecked IP, Accounts, Bank accounts, all with each other to prevent multiple purchases on mule accounts. Just saying.

[Aluvius]

Heh oh well I thought I might make some silvers this time since I was able to grab the extra ticket that went up last night but it sounds like people will either not be buying or trying to buy for cheap. I'm taking under 5 million silvers with me so at this point I'll probably just go with my original plan of working on 4-6x items for alts and lucking out on pre-made items.

I'd agree that when I saw the silver numbers people were getting for selling services in run 1 that I moved into the sell my major to buy the major I really want camp. But heck if its just "normal" amounts then I'd probably rather have a mid tier item made than say 10 million (numbers made up). I could base a new fun alt around a random item from my hodgepodge of workable items but low double digit silvers likely couldn't get you an equivalent item that you want.

Hey no complaints though, I'm wildly lucky to get the tickets through old fashioned clicking and have the chance for work done on mid tier items. Alot of folks don't even have tickets much less mid tier items or even 4-5 million silvers it would take to work on'em/buy raffle tickets. It'll work out, I play alts more than my main anyway lol. :)

[Slit-eye]

Prices are still coming in at the same, and the gates aren't even open yet. When the frenzy starts you'll see bids higher than run 1. Anyone who says otherwise is a buyer trying to hide the fact.

[Goat]

I'd like to buy an acuity flare slot. I'll offer the 4m I have. I know it's not a lot, but it's a little less than +1 CS on average, so I really don't feel bad about it.

Player name is Dergoatean.

[calael]

Out of curiosity, how much did the padding slots go for in auction this time around?

[Slit-eye]

Same. Right around 50m

[Archigeek]

Padding slots went much higher last time at auction. I believe the cheapest slot went for 70m last time, where this time there were some that went for less than 50m. It just goes to show that predicting price ranges and whether they'll go higher or lower is not easy. In the case of this round, prices are pretty resoundingly down by a large margin on most but not all things.

[Ardwen]

them limiting double work hurt alot of plans this time too

[Thondalar]

Padding slots went much higher last time at auction. I believe the cheapest slot went for 70m last time, where this time there were some that went for less than 50m. It just goes to show that predicting price ranges and whether they'll go higher or lower is not easy. In the case of this round, prices are pretty resoundingly down by a large margin on most but not all things.

It seemed to me like come auction time, most people wanted padding on leathers, so the few with plate easily won the auction. IMO this is a problem with the pricing system that actually BENEFITS the plate users.

The Auction price paid comes off of the total charge. 8x hcp fulls to mcp costs 15m, 8x hcp full plate to mcp costs 100m. The guy with the leathers isn't going to bid 100m for that, but the guy with the plate will because he's going to pay it anyway.


IIRC the three auctioned padding slots went for 47, 50, and 53.

I went up to 51 on the last one to take my leathers to MCP, but couldn't justify spending that much more than the service price after that point.

[thefarmer]

It seemed to me like come auction time, most people wanted padding on leathers, so the few with plate easily won the auction. IMO this is a problem with the pricing system that actually BENEFITS the plate users.


That's because nobody wanted to pay the 'plate surcharge'.

That's still not a benefit.

[Thondalar]

That's because nobody wanted to pay the 'plate surcharge'.

That's still not a benefit.

I would have thought your reading comprehension skills would be a bit more refined.

I didn't say it was a benefit TO the plate users, I said the auction setting BENEFITS the plate user.

[Archigeek]

The ratio of buyers to sellers was I think the biggest cause of the price drop. People who are at a festival on spec and trying to make bank don't generally bid on auction slots because there is not likely much margin there. I think there was an uptick in that for this round. Combine that with the fact that the padding was pretty much pures only (except for Geijon who rightly backed out) and you have a recipe for lower prices: less demand = lower price. Beyond the auctions, pricing has still been significantly down. I believe this to be a factor of reduced silver supply, increased ratio of speculators to buyers for use, and something else, maybe just flat out saturation or just the grueling nature of the weekend being a turn off for a significant population of would-be buyers.

[Buckwheet]

8x hcp full plate to mcp costs 100m.

Just curious if this was an accurate quote because I really don't think 7x HCP fusion would cost 200m, which was quoted, just because of the fusion and being one full enchant lower. So even if they did go 100m to outbid all the other leather wearers they are still facing an additional 100m surcharge.

[Methais]

them limiting double work hurt alot of plans this time too

That's total bullshit that they change the rules from run to run, yet charge the same price.

Did they expect people to not try to get stuff worked on multiple times or something? Whoever is in charge of this stuff really is brain dead. Not that it matters to me since I didn't win fuck at this event so far, but yeah.

[Archigeek]

Prices are still coming in at the same, and the gates aren't even open yet. When the frenzy starts you'll see bids higher than run 1. Anyone who says otherwise is a buyer trying to hide the fact.

One thing we can say for sure is that this turned out not to be true. I am now curious how round three is going to turn out.

[thefarmer]

I would have thought your reading comprehension skills would be a bit more refined.

I didn't say it was a benefit TO the plate users, I said the auction setting BENEFITS the plate user.

Me: I don't think that's a benefit. Meaning the auction setting doesn't benefit the plate user. Because they still don't want to pay that high price.

[Ardwen]

If the auction goes past the actual cost for the work on lighter armors they effectively get the actual service free, an auction will basically NEVER go past cost for plate wearers. You see this as a benefit somehow?

[Archigeek]

If the auction goes past the actual cost for the work on lighter armors they effectively get the actual service free, an auction will basically NEVER go past cost for plate wearers. You see this as a benefit somehow?

If the disparity wasn't so out of whack it would work that way, but it's insane as it stands. Geijon was quoted 200m to take his 7x fusion hcp up to mcp (20 points)... Kaedra's 8x leathers with 3 ranks ensorcellment went up to expert (30 points) padding for 30m. So 50% more padding for less than one sixth the price, with one higher enchant. Arwen's 10x full leathers went from 12 points of padding to 22 for 65m (I bought the auction spot for 70m thinking it would be higher). Again, 3 more enchants and 2 more points of padding, for one third the cost. Rightly or wrongly, you have to declare this festival the "festival of the pure" as they are the giant winners here purely on cost.

[Thondalar]

If the auction goes past the actual cost for the work on lighter armors they effectively get the actual service free, an auction will basically NEVER go past cost for plate wearers. You see this as a benefit somehow?

You guys really can't be this dense.

It's a benefit in that they will most likely be the one getting the service, because they're going to have to pay that much ANYWAY.

If it was evenly priced across the board for all armor types, the bids would be even. People would all bid roughly the same amount, i'm guessing in the 40-50m range, with whoever wanted it more for personal use winning by 1-2m. In this scenario, the plate user with ALWAYS bid more, because they're going to have to pay it ANYWAY.

It basically guarantees a leather user won't win the service via auction, because they're not going to pay as much over the service price. Certainly it's in a roundabout way, but that's a benefit.

[crb]

If the disparity wasn't so out of whack it would work that way, but it's insane as it stands. Geijon was quoted 200m to take his 7x fusion hcp up to mcp (20 points)... Kaedra's 8x leathers with 3 ranks ensorcellment went up to expert (30 points) padding for 30m. So 50% more padding for less than one sixth the price, with one higher enchant. Arwen's 10x full leathers went from 12 points of padding to 22 for 65m (I bought the auction spot for 70m thinking it would be higher). Again, 3 more enchants and 2 more points of padding, for one third the cost. Rightly or wrongly, you have to declare this festival the "festival of the pure" as they are the giant winners here purely on cost.

One service does not a festival make, suppose you designate the entire 10 slots of padding to be in the pure column. Squares/semis still have the majority of majors predominantly on their side of the fence. It is perhaps fair to say that that service is biased towards light armor wearers, with actually the cheapest prof being monks (not pures), but the entire festival? Nah. Look at all the weapon specific services out there that have no functional benefit to pures (outside of the few mutant exceptions there always are).

[Ardwen]

Its only a benefit if someone actually uses it, not one of us is willing to spend 200+ million on FAR inferior padding then a soft armor gets for 30 million, only an imbecile considers a useless side effect a benefit.

[crb]

It basically guarantees a leather user won't win the service via auction, because they're not going to pay as much over the service price. Certainly it's in a roundabout way, but that's a benefit.

Absolutes == bad. You're right of course, in general, but it is possible for a leather user to find enough value to bid in and win an auction, nothing is guaranteed.

[Archigeek]

You guys really can't be this dense.

It's a benefit in that they will most likely be the one getting the service, because they're going to have to pay that much ANYWAY.

If it was evenly priced across the board for all armor types, the bids would be even. People would all bid roughly the same amount, i'm guessing in the 40-50m range, with whoever wanted it more for personal use winning by 1-2m. In this scenario, the plate user with ALWAYS bid more, because they're going to have to pay it ANYWAY.

It basically guarantees a leather user won't win the service via auction, because they're not going to pay as much over the service price. Certainly it's in a roundabout way, but that's a benefit.

You're argueing with two squares that they don't know what benefits a square... and calling them dense. Just take a look at what was actually worked on and you will see the error of your argument. Ardwen is right: because no one is actually willing to pay 200m to get mcp plate made (a set just sold on the PC for 70m), your argument becomes moot.

[Ardwen]

when 2 of the warriors that can actually easily afford this so called benefit of yours tell you it isnt a benefit one would think you'd understand that it really isnt a benefit.

[Archigeek]

One service does not a festival make, suppose you designate the entire 10 slots of padding to be in the pure column. Squares/semis still have the majority of majors predominantly on their side of the fence. It is perhaps fair to say that that service is biased towards light armor wearers, with actually the cheapest prof being monks (not pures), but the entire festival? Nah. Look at all the weapon specific services out there that have no functional benefit to pures (outside of the few mutant exceptions there always are).

There is no perhaps about it. The remainder of the services are pretty evenly split, with weapons clearly on the square side. I'm actually quite happy that they included some new and novel services, like the epic deepening, scripts, entry, weight reduction, etc, as everyone can use those. But even services like TD, which by their nature should be heavily geared towards squares, have been seeing extremely high prices for the service on heavy armor. But when I proclaim it the "festival of the pure" I was not making a judgement on quantity of services, but on the epic nature of service. There is no question that the no-brainer thing to do is to take leather armor to the stratosphere if you can.

[Tolwynn]

On the first run, I was quoted around 4m to take 4x fusion fullplate from hcp to mcp. Decent enough armor for a square, and at 1/50th the price quoted for Geijon's armor. As much as everyone seems to love the squares vs. pures thing, where the hell is the logic in the costs running up to astronomical levels for having only a few extra enchants?

[Archigeek]

On the first run, I was quoted around 4m to take 4x fusion fullplate from hcp to mcp. Decent enough armor for a square, and at 1/50th the price quoted for Geijon's armor. As much as everyone seems to love the squares vs. pures thing, where the hell is the logic in the costs running up to astronomical levels for having only a few extra enchants?

I actually would have been trying to buy a slot for that if I'd known that was the pricing. I have a feeling someone's math went nuts. There's no justification in going from 4m to 200m for 3 enchants.

[Buckwheet]

when 2 of the warriors that can actually easily afford this so called benefit of yours tell you it isnt a benefit one would think you'd understand that it really isnt a benefit.

While not as amazing of a warrior I wanted to throw my name in this ring for my rogue, warrior, and paladin!

I just want to be part of the team!

[Thondalar]

You're argueing with two squares that they don't know what benefits a square... and calling them dense. Just take a look at what was actually worked on and you will see the error of your argument. Ardwen is right: because no one is actually willing to pay 200m to get mcp plate made (a set just sold on the PC for 70m), your argument becomes moot.

I'm calling you dense because you apparently still don't understand my point.

CRB figured it out, ask him to clarify it for you. I'm done.

[Buckwheet]

And I went into this festival prepared to bid on the auction and pay 250m for the padding only because I really wanted to make an epic item of my own to actually keep.

I ended up selling 200m instead because when the time came to pull the trigger and I could have easily won, I didn't want to give them the satisfaction.

[Buckwheet]

I'm calling you dense because you apparently still don't understand my point.

CRB figured it out, ask him to clarify it for you. I'm done.

You are just doing a horrible job explaining it I think. It doesn't make any sense to me why its a benefit if nobody is willing to take advantage of it.

I don't know what super mega uber armor there is but lets say you own it and you paid nothing for it to start with. By adding expert level of padding maybe the armor becomes worth 400m or even 350m or hell 300m. Then you are right bidding up to the 250m cap would make sense. But there are for more scenarios along the way with lighter armor that makes even more sense.

The only thing I can figure out is that when they looked in the column of "great armor" there must be a lot of high end plate that meets a magical calculation or something that caused the pricing to be so high compared to leathers.

[Ardwen]

They have priced the value of making great plate beyond the actual value of the plate. When making leather thats worth 200+ million costs 30m to make and plate thats worth 200m+ costs 250m to make theres a serious issue. If people, including GMs, cant see that then thats where the issue lies. I have sold much more high end non-plate then I have ever sold plate, and I have sold TONs of armor thru the years. Top 10 suits of armor regardless of class, how many of those sets are plate? I'd guess alot less then people seem to think.

[Thondalar]

You are just doing a horrible job explaining it I think. It doesn't make any sense to me why its a benefit if nobody is willing to take advantage of it.

People DID take advantage of it. I'm not talking about the 200m+ group, i'm talking about the 60-80m group. My own auction is a perfect example. I went up to 52 mill as a bid, which was roughly 3 times as much as what the service charge would be. The person who outbid me ended up paying 68 mill total...in that scenario, they would have went up to probably 70m for a bid, whereas my just going to 52 was ludicrous. I had no chance of winning that auction without burying myself.

[Archigeek]

I'm calling you dense because you apparently still don't understand my point.

CRB figured it out, ask him to clarify it for you. I'm done.

Yeah right. I get your point, you're just wrong. As I clearly explained, no one is going to pay 200m for something they can just go buy for 70m on the open market. We're not idiots. You have the right idea, in that you might as well bid up to the value you'll spend on a service, but you're taking it too far in thinking that the price they're asking is what people are willing to pay. The price is far beyond the worth, hence your argument falls off a cliff.

[Thondalar]

They have prize the value of making great plate beyond the actual value of the plate. When making leather thats worth 200+ million costs 30m to make and plate thats worth 200m+ costs 250m to make theres a serious issue. If people, including GMs, cant see that then thats where the issue lies. I have sold much more high end non-plate then I have ever sold plate, and I have sold TONs of armor thru the years. Top 10 suits of armor regardless of class, how many of those sets are plate? I'd guess alot less then people seem to think.

We, the resellers, set the price on the items. If this is the new standard for pricing for plate service, I guess the price on nice plate needs to go up to match.

[Ardwen]

I said value not price, plate prices have been dropping for years. double and full prices have gone up, this doesnt tell you something?

[Thondalar]

Yeah right. I get your point, you're just wrong. As I clearly explained, no one is going to pay 200m for something they can just go buy for 70m on the open market. We're not idiots. You have the right idea, in that you might as well bid up to the value you'll spend on a service, but you're taking it too far in thinking that the price they're asking is what people are willing to pay. The price is far beyond the worth, hence your argument falls off a cliff.

see above.

[Methais]

We, the resellers, set the price on the items. If this is the new standard for pricing for plate service, I guess the price on nice plate needs to go up to match.

Don't the buyers technically set the price? I mean you can set the price of something at whatever you want as a seller, but that doesn't mean it's going to sell.

[Thondalar]

Don't the buyers technically set the price? I mean you can set the price of something at whatever you want as a seller, but that doesn't mean it's going to sell.

Chicken or the egg. If people want to buy something, but nobody will sell it for less than 250m, the price is 250m.

[Ardwen]

or the price is 0 and none sell

[Archigeek]

People DID take advantage of it. I'm not talking about the 200m+ group, i'm talking about the 60-80m group. My own auction is a perfect example. I went up to 52 mill as a bid, which was roughly 3 times as much as what the service charge would be. The person who outbid me ended up paying 68 mill total...in that scenario, they would have went up to probably 70m for a bid, whereas my just going to 52 was ludicrous. I had no chance of winning that auction without burying myself.



IIRC the three auctioned padding slots went for 47, 50, and 53.

I went up to 51 on the last one to take my leathers to MCP, but couldn't justify spending that much more than the service price after that point.

And here's where once again your argument falls on its face, because you don't understand the difference between service price and value of product. You passed on mcp full leather for 52 million... go out and try to buy a set for that price. Meanwhile, you're trying to tell us that we should all pony up 250 million for a set of 7x mcp plate... when one JUST sold on the PC for 70m. You sir, or ma'am, are ignorant to the value of your own possessions, let alone the value of plate armor.

There is not some magic disconnect between what the service price is worth after it's done and what the end item will sell for on the open market. Anyone paying 250m for 7x mcp plate is going to take a giant bath if they ever decide to sell, where your leather would have instantly been worth more than you'd paid for the service. Your loss, for not recognizing where the real bargain was at this festival. Who knows when you'll ever get another chance.

[Donquix]

And here's where once again your argument falls on its face, because you don't understand the difference between service price and value of product. You passed on mcp full leather for 52 million... go out and try to buy a set for that price. Meanwhile, you're trying to tell us that we should all pony up 250 million for a set of 7x mcp plate... when one JUST sold on the PC for 70m. You sir, or ma'am, are ignorant to the value of your own possessions, let alone the value of plate armor.

There is not some magic disconnect between what the service price is worth after it's done and what the end item will sell for on the open market. Anyone paying 250m for 7x mcp plate is going to take a giant bath if they ever decide to sell, where your leather would have instantly been worth more than you'd paid for the service. Your loss, for not recognizing where the real bargain was at this festival. Who knows when you'll ever get another chance.

You missed the part where his solution was to create a monopoly / oligarchy on the market and hope no one undercuts. Because that's going to happen.

[Thondalar]

You passed on mcp full leather for 52 million... go out and try to buy a set for that price.

You're ignoring what i've already spent to make it 8x HCP


Meanwhile, you're trying to tell us that we should all pony up 250 million for a set of 7x mcp plate

Where did I say that, ever?


You sir, or ma'am, are ignorant to the value of your own possessions, let alone the value of plate armor.

Considering i've been buying and selling items of this type for years, on these very forums even, I would say that's rather silly.


There is not some magic disconnect between what the service price is worth after it's done and what the end item will sell for on the open market. Anyone paying 250m for 7x mcp plate is going to take a giant bath if they ever decide to sell, where your leather would have instantly been worth more than you'd paid for the service

Fully aware of this, in fact i've touched on it myself in this thread.


Your loss, for not recognizing where the real bargain was at this festival. Who knows when you'll ever get another chance.

I can assure you, i'm fully aware of the value of the items, as i've bought and sold similar many times. I decided it wasn't worth it with the amount of silvers I already had into it.
If I never get another chance at MCP, i'll just buy it. It'll be cheaper than making it anyway.

[Thondalar]

You missed the part where his solution was to create a monopoly / oligarchy on the market and hope no one undercuts. Because that's going to happen.

Ofcourse it wouldn't happen now, there are too many items already in the system. Going forward, however, I do see the price of plate going up and the price of leathers going down, if Simu keeps the current pricing model for services. I don't see any way it wouldn't.

[Ardwen]

Plate has continued dropping with this pricing system in place, why exactly do you think that is going to change? Its dropped as much as 40 percent on some armor, while leather has increased in some case to twice what it was selling for.

[JackWhisper]

This conversation has demoralized me so much I'm probably never going to go past a set of max light 7x full plate. #TearDrowning

[Thondalar]

Plate has continued dropping with this pricing system in place, why exactly do you think that is going to change? Its dropped as much as 40 percent on some armor, while leather has increased in some case to twice what it was selling for.

What's currently out is a supply/demand issue I guess...there are more people wearing lighter armor than heavy?

I was commenting on it going forward. It would probably take a while for the curve to come around, but eventually it would, simply because if it costs someone 200m to get something made, they aren't going to want to sell it for less than that. RIGHT NOW that's not viable, because you can get the same thing off the market for less. EVENTUALLY that would change, as people leave and old items are lost, and the only way to replace them would be to pay the exorbitant service prices.

[Methais]

Chicken or the egg. If people want to buy something, but nobody will sell it for less than 250m, the price is 250m.

Pretty sure there's a middleground you're leaving out of that equation.

I'd love to sell charged statues for 1m each, but that's just not gonna happen, for example.

[Thondalar]

Pretty sure there's a middleground you're leaving out of that equation.

I'd love to sell charged statues for 1m each, but that's just not gonna happen, for example.

Charged statues don't cost 950k to make, though.

[Methais]

Charged statues don't cost 950k to make, though.

I charge 3k per mana...

[Latrinsorm]

I was commenting on it going forward. It would probably take a while for the curve to come around, but eventually it would, simply because if it costs someone 200m to get something made, they aren't going to want to sell it for less than that. RIGHT NOW that's not viable, because you can get the same thing off the market for less. EVENTUALLY that would change, as people leave and old items are lost, and the only way to replace them would be to pay the exorbitant service prices.They may not want to all things being equal, but if your choices are a 200m loss or a 20m loss, which would you pick? Logically the 20m, but out of spite probably the 200m. What better describes humans, logical or spiteful?

[Donquix]

Ofcourse it wouldn't happen now, there are too many items already in the system. Going forward, however, I do see the price of plate going up and the price of leathers going down, if Simu keeps the current pricing model for services. I don't see any way it wouldn't.

There's only 2 classes that will, almost without fail, wear plate (paladins and warriors)
They also happen to be two of the last played classes (paladin is THE least, isn't it?)

Rogues what, half wear brig or below? A non-trivial amount don't get into plate anyhow. Monks seem to be losing steam after the initial rush to try them out, and they mostly stick to iron skin anyhow.

rangers and bards kinda stick to chain but brig or below seems more popular especially under cap. That leaves you with empaths, clerics, wizards, sorcerers all in leather...and ALL of those classes are far more popular than the plate classes. If we ever see savants (lul) that's another pure in leather or below.

Relative to leather, the price of plate will never be that high. Supply and demand is a motherfucker, and regardless of how stupidly dissuasive simu makes the pricing for these services on plate, it will not outgrow the price of other armor classes and its only increase will be the normal inflation of silvers.

[JackWhisper]

A swinging bard, I never quite got why they wouldn't be in full plate. You can cast all your active spells, inside town, and safe, then go hunt in full plate. No hinderance for renewing spellsongs. But, then again, I hated having to rely on dumping mana into ewave and things like that to survive hunts.

[Lord Orbstar]

If the disparity wasn't so out of whack it would work that way, but it's insane as it stands. Geijon was quoted 200m to take his 7x fusion hcp up to mcp (20 points)... Kaedra's 8x leathers with 3 ranks ensorcellment went up to expert (30 points) padding for 30m. So 50% more padding for less than one sixth the price, with one higher enchant. Arwen's 10x full leathers went from 12 points of padding to 22 for 65m (I bought the auction spot for 70m thinking it would be higher). Again, 3 more enchants and 2 more points of padding, for one third the cost. Rightly or wrongly, you have to declare this festival the "festival of the pure" as they are the giant winners here purely on cost.

This scares me. I have a set of 10x full leather that is Decently Crit Padded. I wanted to get the padding on them during the third run of RCTF. WHat do you think it will cost? I do not have that kind of silver...

[tyrant-201]

Gotta agree with Arch. I play a pure, so it benefited me - but still it kinda sucks for others. I bought a padding slot and my 8x HCP robes cost 9 million to take to MCP. Can't imagine the cost on plate, but I imagine it's quite a bit more.

[Tylec]

Gotta agree with Arch. I play a pure, so it benefited me - but still it kinda sucks for others. I bought a padding slot and my 8x HCP robes cost 9 million to take to MCP. Can't imagine the cost on plate, but I imagine it's quite a bit more.

First born son and a weekend alone in a shady motel with your wife.

[crb]

There's only 2 classes that will, almost without fail, wear plate (paladins and warriors)
They also happen to be two of the last played classes (paladin is THE least, isn't it?)

Rogues what, half wear brig or below? A non-trivial amount don't get into plate anyhow. Monks seem to be losing steam after the initial rush to try them out, and they mostly stick to iron skin anyhow.

rangers and bards kinda stick to chain but brig or below seems more popular especially under cap. That leaves you with empaths, clerics, wizards, sorcerers all in leather...and ALL of those classes are far more popular than the plate classes. If we ever see savants (lul) that's another pure in leather or below.

Relative to leather, the price of plate will never be that high. Supply and demand is a motherfucker, and regardless of how stupidly dissuasive simu makes the pricing for these services on plate, it will not outgrow the price of other armor classes and its only increase will be the normal inflation of silvers.

FYI/offtopic based on random sample in-game census (who prof) generally paladins and sorcerers were actually tied for least popular profession (sometimes one would have more, sometimes the other) prior to ensorcellment being released. Now that it is released I would expect sorcerers to have made gains, they may still be merely second from the bottom though.

[Ardwen]

8x mcp plate would be in excess of 200m to make, and would be worth 170m tops on a very very good day

[Rolton-Sammich]

FYI/offtopic based on random sample in-game census (who prof) generally paladins and sorcerers were actually tied for least popular profession (sometimes one would have more, sometimes the other) prior to ensorcellment being released. Now that it is released I would expect sorcerers to have made gains, they may still be merely second from the bottom though.

[profs: Currently in game:]

7 - Monk
17 - Paladin
20 - Cleric
22 - Rogue
24 - Warrior
25 - Bard
26 - Sorcerer
34 - Empath
37 - Ranger
53 - Wizard

--- Lich: profs has exited.

;profs uploaded in case anyone else wants to run their own censuses at different times of day!

[tyrant-201]

[profs: Currently in game:]

7 - Monk
17 - Paladin
20 - Cleric
22 - Rogue
24 - Warrior
25 - Bard
26 - Sorcerer
34 - Empath
37 - Ranger
53 - Wizard

--- Lich: profs has exited.

;profs uploaded in case anyone else wants to run their own censuses at different times of day!

Wonder how many of those 53 are actually played characters, as opposed to pocket wizards.

[crb]

oh well all forgot about monks... but ya, sorcerer population levels have roughly doubled since ensorcell was released (used to average low teens). I expect it to drop back down slightly once the shine wears off (though, not entirely, since there is now value to a pocket sorcerer if you manage to hunt him)

[Ardwen]

2 or 3!

[Aluvius]

In plat the lowest for the last couple of months has definitely been monks/paladins and oddly enough bards. Usually 0 monks/bards. My character was one of the typically 1-2 paladins. :)

The most played wizards/rangers of course, sorcs middle of the road, warriors believe it or not were usually middle to high but with more variation.

[Archigeek]

What's middle to high, 5?

[Archigeek]

8x mcp plate would be in excess of 200m to make, and would be worth 170m tops on a very very good day

Considering a set of +36 mcp plate sold this week for 70m, good luck getting another 100m for +4DS.

[Ardwen]

wasnt full plate that sold for that, full always gets the premium over breastplate, since like noone uses a breastplate

[Jarvan]

This scares me. I have a set of 10x full leather that is Decently Crit Padded. I wanted to get the padding on them during the third run of RCTF. WHat do you think it will cost? I do not have that kind of silver...

10x Brigandine| HCP to MCP| 90m

I would say.. maybe 50-60.

[Archigeek]

10x Brigandine| HCP to MCP| 90m

I would say.. maybe 50-60.

Full leather 12 points to 22 points was around 65, so you're going to be less than that for sure. Who can say how pricing works though, beyond the basic enchant part of their chart. I thought I had it figured out going in, and I've been way off pretty much every time. You are probably looking at somewhere between 35 and 55m though. That's my guess.

I suppose it must work something like this: (E +P)A + 10%V, where E = Enchant value from chart, P = Points that are a sum of features x some currency factor, A = Armor class multiplier (based on results this is probably something like Armor class squared/4), and V equals bard sung Value. There's my crazy crack at the RtCF pricing structure. What do you think it is? Post your crack at the code.

[Aluvius]

What's middle to high, 5?

Yeah, middle 2-3, high 4-5 :)

[senorgordoburro]

They have a huge surcharge for ithzir flares. I was quoted 58m to take my 6x HCP T5 ensorcell T2 ithzir to MCP when I won a spot at run 2.

[Ardwen]

what armor type was it?

[Helsfeld]

Aug chain

[senorgordoburro]

Correct

[jafo]

Do we need a new thread for this weekend?